Lawrence on deranged, vile Trump posts as govt. shutdown looms: How do you negotiate with that man?

Summary

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The Last Word with Lawrence O'Donnell

Episode: "Lawrence on deranged, vile Trump posts as govt. shutdown looms: How do you negotiate with that man?"
Date: September 30, 2025

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Overview

Theme:
On the eve of a looming government shutdown, Lawrence O’Donnell examines the unprecedented dysfunction in Washington, focusing on President Donald Trump’s inflammatory and erratic social media posts and their real-world political consequences. Drawing on his experience in government and television, O’Donnell explores how current Democratic leaders are navigating negotiations with Trump, whom he characterizes as cognitively declining, untruthful, and “impossible” to negotiate with. The episode features interviews with leading Democrats, including House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries, Senator Sheldon Whitehouse, and Congressman Ro Khanna, all responding to Trump's recent actions, particularly a "vile" AI-generated video attacking Democratic lawmakers and the political fallout of the Trump administration’s approach to both governance and the ongoing Jeffrey Epstein scandal.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Political Showdown: The Looming Government Shutdown

[01:02-04:28]

• O’Donnell opens by drawing parallels between historic and current political leadership, noting that “New York City was, in every important sense, the center of the United States of America. And for a brief shining moment today, New York City was, in a sense, the center of our political world. Once again, two guys from Brooklyn and a guy from Queens walk into a room to discuss the immediate future of the government of the United States of America.”
• The “three New Yorkers” are Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer, House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries (both from Brooklyn), and President Donald Trump (from Queens).
• The episode emphasizes the gridlock: “If those three New Yorkers reach an agreement, the government continues its normal operations. If they don’t, the government shuts down. They didn’t reach an agreement today.” (01:32)

Key Point:
Responsibility for the government shutdown, according to Democratic leaders, falls squarely on Trump and Congressional Republicans.

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2. Health Care and the Human Stakes

[02:59-04:28, 09:36-11:01]

• Democrats tried to explain to Trump how a shutdown would “hurt people who cannot afford dramatic increases in their health insurance costs.”
• O’Donnell argues that Trump “doesn’t know those people who struggle,” blaming it on Trump’s privileged upbringing and detached lifestyle: “The golf courses where Donald Trump spends his weekends... are not the kinds of places where Donald Trump’s going to meet people who have trouble paying for their health insurance.” (03:18)
• Jeffries: “Republicans are closing our hospitals, nursing homes and community based health clinics and have effectively shut down medical research in the United States of America.” (11:05)

Key Point:
The debate is not just procedural—it impacts everyday Americans' health care and livelihoods, especially as Republicans block renewal of Affordable Care Act tax credits.

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3. Trump’s Social Media and “Cognitive Decline”

[04:28-09:36]

• O’Donnell dissects Trump's bizarre weekend social posts, including:
  • Urging troops be sent to “war ravaged Portland” (“Portland has never been war ravaged... No part of the United States of America has been war ravaged since Abraham Lincoln was president.” – 05:33)
  • Posting an AI video “imagining that marijuana can solve all of his elderly health problems.”
  • Mistakenly calling communism thousands of years old: “Communism is just a few decades older than Donald Trump and he thinks it’s been here for thousands of years. How high do you have to be to think communism has been around for thousands of years?” (08:11)
• O’Donnell suggests these posts are symptomatic of Trump’s “dramatic cognitive decline...a possible flight of dementia.” (05:57)

Notable Quote:
“How do you talk to that man? How do you negotiate with that man? Most of us think it’s impossible.” – Lawrence O’Donnell (08:28)

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4. Trump’s Attack Video and Racist Political Tactics

[11:01-14:16, 32:05-34:34, 37:58-41:45]

• A centerpiece of the episode is Trump’s AI-generated video, which O’Donnell describes as “pornographic...violent, vile, it is racist. It is the ugliest, possibly the single most demented thing he has ever done on social media.” (16:49)
• Hakeem Jeffries responds: “It’s a disgusting video. And we’re going to continue to make clear bigotry will get you nowhere. We are fighting to protect the health care of the American people...” (11:01)
• Ro Khanna calls Trump’s post “personal” and attacks the unseriousness of current Republican leadership:
  • “It’s just as sad to see the President of the United States put an African American leader in a sombrero, mocking our differences instead of trying to bring us together.” (37:58)
  • “They view politics as cheap comedy. And that has consequences... failed economic policies, higher prices, failed science policies, no vaccines. They’re taking a sledgehammer to our crown jewels of universities doing medical research and innovation.” (38:13)

Notable Quote:
“This was personal for me. As a son of immigrants, it’s just as sad to see the President of the United States put an African American leader in a sombrero, mocking our differences instead of trying to bring us together.” – Rep. Ro Khanna (37:58)

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5. Political Dysfunction and Negotiation Deadlock

[14:16-16:43]

• O’Donnell and Jeffries discuss Democratic opposition to passing a “short-term CR” (continuing resolution) just to avoid shutdown for a week.
• Jeffries: “We need to move forward with the fierce urgency of now, get something done over the next day or so to ensure that the health care of the American people is protected.” (15:11)

Key Point:
Democratic leadership is unified in refusing a stopgap solution that would simply delay the crisis.

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6. Unqualified Trump Appointees and Weaponized Prosecutions

[16:48-24:22, 25:49-27:49, 30:32-32:39]

• O’Donnell reports on Donald Trump’s appointment of Lindsey Halligan as acting U.S. attorney to indict James Comey despite her lack of prosecutorial experience.
  • Halligan’s courtroom confusion is highlighted: “The first prosecutor in history who presented two grand jury documents to the judge, one indicting James Comey and the other refusing to indict... both signed by her.” (22:40)
• Senator Whitehouse ridicules Halligan’s incompetence and Trump’s approach:
  • “The MAGA DOJ crowd is equal parts gangster and Gong Show.” (27:13)
• Trump’s personal attorney, now deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche, is accused of whitewashing Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell’s association with Trump, allegedly believing Maxwell’s self-exonerations and helping move her to an easier prison.

Notable Quote:
“Gangster and Gong Show. That is Trump world. The incompetence in everything they…” – Lawrence O’Donnell (32:05)

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7. The Epstein Files and Political Coverups

[35:27-41:45]

• O’Donnell and Rep. Ro Khanna detail the House Oversight Committee’s ongoing investigation into Epstein’s connections with powerful figures:
  • New files implicate Elon Musk, Peter Thiel, Steve Bannon, and Prince Andrew.
  • Khanna insists Republicans are blocking full release because of Trump’s influence.
• Khanna mentions survivors of Epstein’s abuse being dismissed by the Trump DoJ:
  • “He’s saying not only are the survivors lying, he’s saying that Nancy Mace is lying... He’s saying that Marjorie Taylor Greene is lying... He’s saying that Speaker Johnson... is lying because he said that he believed the survivors.” (40:50)

Notable Quote:
“At some point, when are [Republicans] going to find an ounce of courage to stand up for this country? That’s really the question with the Epstein files.” – Rep. Ro Khanna (41:29)

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Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• Lawrence O’Donnell (08:29):
  “How do you talk to that man? How do you negotiate with that man? Most of us think it’s impossible. But someone has to do it. And someone has to do it because lives are at stake.”
• Hakeem Jeffries (11:01):
  “It’s a disgusting video. And we’re going to continue to make clear bigotry will get you nowhere... Republicans are closing our hospitals, nursing homes and community based health clinics and have effectively shut down medical research in the United States of America.”
• Sen. Sheldon Whitehouse (27:13):
  “This crowd, the MAGA DOJ crowd, is equal parts gangster and Gong Show.”
• Ro Khanna (37:58):
  “As a son of immigrants, it’s just as sad to see the President put an African American leader in a sombrero... But what’s even sadder is we have deeply unserious people in charge of this country. They view politics as cheap comedy. And that has consequences.”
• Lawrence O’Donnell (35:27):
  “...for the first time in history, the President of the United States has included everyone in the other political party to be, in his words, ‘pieces of crap’ and the last word is not a quote, because I will not, on this program sink to Donald Trump's level of profanity.”

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Important Segment Timestamps

• 01:02–04:28: O’Donnell opens with historical context and the current crisis—three New Yorkers, the shutdown showdown.
• 04:28–09:36: Analysis of Trump’s weekend posts and claims of cognitive decline.
• 11:01–13:59: Hakeem Jeffries on fighting bigotry and defending health care in the face of Republican attacks.
• 15:11–16:43: Jeffries on the urgency and unity against a short-term funding patch.
• 16:49–24:22: Reporting on the Trump administration’s handling of the Comey indictment; O’Donnell lambasts “the single most demented” Trump video.
• 25:49–27:49: Whitehouse: “equal parts gangster and Gong Show”; nonsensical handling of investigations.
• 30:32–32:39: Epstein saga, Blanche’s credulity toward Ghislaine Maxwell, and projections of possible pardons.
• 37:58–41:45: Rep. Khanna on Trump’s racist video, block on Epstein file release, and courage in Congress.

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Tone and Language

• The language is direct, caustic, and urgent, reflecting O'Donnell’s frustration and anger at current events.
• Guests share personal reflections, express resolve, and call for accountability.
• The tone alternates between incredulity at Trump’s actions and determination to defend democratic norms.

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Summary

Lawrence O’Donnell’s episode offers a blistering critique of Donald Trump's inflammatory, and at times nonsensical, leadership on the eve of a government shutdown. Through in-depth interviews with Democratic lawmakers, O’Donnell showcases the real impacts of political dysfunction—escalating health care costs, endangered research, and the corrosion of civil discourse by bigotry and “cheap comedy.” The episode starkly portrays Trump’s administration as adrift, prioritizing vendettas, and self-preservation over governance—with the Epstein files, mock prosecutions, and AI-driven political attacks serving as evidence. Amid the chaos, Democratic leaders vow to hold firm for ordinary Americans, refusing to capitulate to what they see as the “gangster and Gong Show” tactics of the MAGA era.

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Transcript

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[Lawrence O'Donnell]

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[MSNBC Correspondent/Reporter]

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[Lawrence O'Donnell]

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[MSNBC Correspondent/Reporter]

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[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Chumba Casino well, if you wanted to see the spot where the very first President of the United States was inaugurated, you have to travel a couple hundred miles north of Washington, D.C. george Washington actually took his first oath of office as president in lower Manhattan on Wall street, in a spot that is now commemorated for that historic moment, for what turned out to be a brief shining moment. New York City was the first capital of the United States of Americ a little over a year. George Washington lived then, not in the big White House, but in a New York City rental, like so many millions of us have since that time. New York City in those days was in every important sense the center of the United States of America. And for a brief shining moment today, New York City was, in a sense, the center of our political world. Once again, two guys from Brooklyn and a guy from Queens walk into a room to discuss the immediate future of the government of the United States of America. It's all up to them. If those three New Yorkers reach an agreement, the government continues its normal operations. If they don't, the government shuts down. They didn't reach an agreement today. And so we are now 26 hours away from Donald Trump's next shutdown of the American government. The last time the government shut down was the last time Donald Trump was president. One of the guys from Brooklyn reminded the guy from Queens that there were no government shutdowns when Joe Biden and the Democrats were in charge when I was leader.

[MSNBC Correspondent/Reporter]

We negotiated four times with Republicans and.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

We never had a shutdown.

[Congressman Hakeem Jeffries]

And so it's up to the Republicans.

[MSNBC Correspondent/Reporter]

Whether they want a shutdown or not.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

The two guys from Brooklyn tried to explain to the guy from Queens that he was hurting people who cannot afford dramatic increases in their health insurance costs. But trying to explain that to the guy from Queens isn't easy because he doesn't know those people who struggle with the cost of health care. The guys from Brooklyn went to local Brooklyn public schools. Chuck Schumer, now the Democratic leader of the United States Senate, is a proud graduate of James Madison High School on Bedford Avenue in Brooklyn. Hakeem Jeffries, now the Democratic leader of the United States House of Representatives, is a proud graduate of Midwood High School on Bedford Avenue, about 10 blocks north of Chuck Schumer's high school. And Donald Trump is the rich kid from Queens who now occupies an Oval Office. He has stained with the vulgarity of his obsession with gold. And he went to boarding school. Boarding school is not the place where you meet people whose families have trouble paying the bills. The golf courses where Donald Trump spends his weekends, including this weekend, when he could have been working on funding the government, are not the kinds of places where Donald Trump's going to meet people who have trouble paying for their health insurance. Laid out to the president some of the consequences of what's happening in health care, and by his face and by the way he looked, I think he.

[Congressman Hakeem Jeffries]

Heard about them for the first time.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

The closing of rural hospitals, the fact that so many clinics are closing. And I don't know if he knew this before. Of course he heard it for the first time. Of course, he couldn't possibly have known it before or he would have taken the situation more seriously. Right. He wouldn't have spent the weekend doing absolutely no governing work whatsoever. He wouldn't have cancelled the first meeting that he had scheduled with those two guys from Brooklyn last week. Would Donald Trump have spent Saturday slumped in a golf cart, exhausted while playing golf with his granddaughter? If Donald Trump knew what was at stake in the funding of the government, would he have been posting on social media, sending out all necessary troops? This is what he said. All necessary troops to protect a ravaged war area. Ukraine, Gaza? No. Donald Trump tweeted about sending 200 National Guard troops, quote, to protect war ravaged Portland. Portland has never been war ravaged. No part of the United States of America has been war ravaged since Abraham Lincoln was president. And the Confederate States that now so enthusiastically support Donald Trump. We're making war against the United States of America. Of course, if Donald Trump thinks Portland is war ravaged, then his cognitive decline has reached very, very, very high speed and it's getting faster every day. There was other evidence of that dramatic cognitive decline this weekend when Donald Trump should have been concerned about how to keep the government running and he was instead tweeting an imaginary image of firing someone he cannot fire. There's Donald Trump in a possible flight of dementia, thinking that he's in his old TV show and he's the chairman of the Federal Reserve is a contestant in his own TV show who Donald Trump can fire. No previous president has been deranged enough to imagine that he could fire the chairman of the Federal Reserve. After that burst of possible dementia, Donald Trump's next entry in social media was, quote, make crime illegal again. Okay, Donald, should we make water wet again? And then on Sunday afternoon, with the nation reeling from a deadly attack on a Mormon church in Michigan, Donald Trump posted a video imagining that marijuana can solve all of his elderly health problems. Was Donald Trump High at 4:48pm when he tweeted a goofy sci fi style video about how cannabis can completely cure single thing that people his age are suffering? If Donald Trump believes what he tweeted, there is no reason to think that he doesn't. He tweeted it, he must think it then. Donald Trump is probably using cannabis. Why wouldn't he? It cures every problem he has. I don't know why he still has that problem with his ankles if he's using cannabis the way he's telling people to, the way that video urges people to use it. But cannabis use can have accompanying energy slumps, which could explain Donald Trump's apparent low energy in that golf cart on Saturday. And this morning Donald Trump woke up possibly still high because at 8:43am he posted about a self proclaimed New York City Communist running for mayor. The problem is there is no self proclaimed New York City Communist running for mayor trying to teach Donald Trump the difference between a socialist and a communist is of course impossible because he is impossible, incapable of learning. But it is the difference between Bernie Sanders and Kim Jong Un. In that same post, Donald Trump said that communism has failed for thousands of years. Thousands of years. Communism is just a few decades older than Donald Trump and he thinks it's been here for thousands of years. How high do you have to be to think communism has been around for thousands of years? How do you talk to that man? How do you negotiate with that man? Most of us think it's impossible. But someone has to do it. And someone has to do it because lives are at stake. Someone has to do it because in a matter of days, some people are going to see their health insurance costs go up by thousands of doll, thousands of dollars that they cannot afford. Those people desperately need someone, anyone to talk to Donald Trump and today our first guest did exactly that.

[Congressman Hakeem Jeffries]

Republicans control the House, Republicans control the Senate, and Donald Trump is the president. The government shuts down. It's because Republicans have decided to shut the government down and hurt the American people. And that's a point that we made loudly and clearly.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

The Federal Unionist Network put out a statement today supporting Senator Schumer and Congressman Jeffries saying a government shutdown is never plan A. Federal workers and the communities we serve will face severe hardship. But federal workers will willingly forego paychecks in the hopes of preserving the programs we have devoted our lives to administering. In order to save our services today, we need to send a message to this administration that enough is enough. Leading off our discussion tonight is House Democratic Leader Congressman Hakeem Jeffries of New York. Thank you very much for joining us tonight, Mr. Leader. And I'm not showing this video that Donald Trump put out about you and Chuck Schumer today. This fake video, people are going to see it. They'll, they'll see it in other ways. It's easy to find, but it is absolutely disgusting in every way. It is a lie. It's the man you met with has now lied about what you said after that meeting. Could you give us your reaction to that Trump posted video tonight?

[Congressman Hakeem Jeffries]

It's a disgusting video. And we're going to continue to make clear bigotry will get you nowhere. We are fighting to protect the health care of, of the American people in the face of an unprecedented Republican assault on all the things Medicaid, Medicare, the Affordable Care Act. Republicans are closing our hospitals, nursing homes and community based health clinics and have effectively shut down medical research in the United States of America. Clearly, Donald Trump and Republicans know that they have a very weak position because they are hurting everyday Americans while continuing to reward their billionaire donors just like they did in that one big ugly bill with massive tax breaks. Democrats are united in the House and the Senate. And the point that we've made will continue to be clear. We are fighting to lower the high cost of health care, prevent these dramatically increased premiums, co pays and deductibles that will take place in a matter of days unless Republicans are willing to act in terms of renewing the Affordable Care act tax credits.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

I see as you've been speaking on social media, just after I started this program tonight that you posted on social media something that's real. You simply apparently in replying to Donald Trump, you posted what's up on the screen now simply saying this is real. And there's Donald Trump with his arm around the guy who said he was Donald Trump's best friend for 10 years, a sex trafficker and rapier of children, Jeffrey Epstein. Is that going to be your full reply to Donald Trump on the fake video he put out about you and caricaturing you in that video?

[Congressman Hakeem Jeffries]

Leader Schumer and I will have more to say about this issue. But again, this is all designed to be a malignant distraction from people who are determined to continue to rip health care away from the American people. And Democrats are resolved to stand up for it. They are lying about what we're asking to do. We've made clear that federal law currently prohibits undocumented immigrants from receiving comprehensive health care paid for by federal American tax dollars. And no one is asking to change that law. But what we are doing is making it clear that we need to protect the health care of the American people, which has been under relentless assault by the Republicans throughout this year. It's an assault on the health care of working class Americans, on rural America, on urban America, on small town America, on the heartland of America, and on black and brown communities all throughout America. And it's unacceptable. It's un American. And that's why Democrats are holding firm. We will not back down. We will continue to defend the health care of everyday Americans.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

I want to get your reaction to something that Senator Schumer said today about possibly passing a short term bill to fund the government for a week or 10 days. Let's listen to what the senator said about that.

[Congressman Ro Khanna]

Now that you've presented these issues directly.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

To the President, would you propose or would you support a 7 to 10 day CR. No. So there's more time. No, we have to do it now. The time is a wasting.

[Congressman Hakeem Jeffries]

We have to do it now.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

We've delayed and delayed and delayed. As I said, as Martin Luther King once said, later means never. Carson Jeffries, we frequently see as these crises go on that as we get to the midnight hour, someone comes, comes up with a proposal of let's just keep the government running for a week, something like that. And to hear Senator Schumer at this stage say absolutely no to that is a level of no that I've never heard before from Senator Schumer. Are you united on that. Is there, is there no possibility of any short term, get them through the week funding that, that you might agree on?

[Congressman Hakeem Jeffries]

Leader Schumer was very strong in his opposition, and House Democrats strongly agree with that position. Republicans are trying to get away with this notion that they understand, or at least some of them, like Leader Thune seems to understand, that something has to happen with respect to the Affordable Care act tax credits because tens of millions of Americans are about to experience dramatically increased health care costs in an environment, Lawrence, where we know the Republicans promised to lower the high cost of living. They failed and America is too expensive. And we have to do something about it, particularly as it relates to these health care premiums. But we can't simply accept an IOU and believe that these people are going to act in good faith when the reality is for the last 15 years, Republicans have put a target on the back of the Affordable Care Act. They've tried to repeal and displace millions of Americans. And so if we're going to move forward, we need to move forward with the fierce urgency of now, get something done over the next day or so to ensure that the health care of the American people is protected.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Mr. Leader, last question before you go. I know you have to go. It's a very busy night. How do you do it? How do you talk to that man? How can you possibly go back in any situation and talk to that man again after what he did tonight?

[Congressman Hakeem Jeffries]

Well, it's completely unacceptable and un American what happened. But we're in this fight until we win this fight on behalf of the American people.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

House Democratic leader Hakeem Jeffries, thank you very much for joining us tonight.

[Congressman Hakeem Jeffries]

Thank you, Lawrence.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Coming up, we have new details about the incompetence of Donald Trump's favorite new prosecutor who has never prosecuted a case and is now trying to prosecute James Comey. We'll get Senator Sheldon Whitehouse's reaction to Donald Trump's posting that fake video tonight of Senate Democratic Leader Chuck Schumer. That's next. I want to repeat that the video Donald Trump posted tonight, the fake AI apparently generated video that puts completely fake words in the mouth of Senator Chuck Schumer, is pornographic. It is violent, vile, it is racist. It is the ugliest, possibly the single most demented thing he has ever done on social media. You'll have a very easy time finding it, but you won't find it on this program. I am not going to use this hour to show that kind of Trump filth and depravity, but it is a relevant point of discussion because Donald Trump in that video calls every elected Democrat in America a piece of crap. And I'm cleaning up that last word for Donald Trump. Senator Sheldon Whitehouse will respond to that in a moment because that is directed at him as well as every elected Democrat in America, and in more ways than one. Now Donald Trump is finding out that his new favorite prosecutor, who has never prosecuted a case, does not know what she's doing. Donald Trump brought the lowest ranking member of his personal criminal defense team with him to Washington, and he gave attorney Lindsay Halligan a job in the White House having nothing to do with the law. Apparently she was not considered qualified enough to be a White House counsel or even a deputy White House counsel or an assistant White House counsel in any way. And so she was given the title White House Senior Associate Staff Secretary, which is the kind of Trump White House title you give someone with nothing to do with. But because she has a law degree, Donald Trump was able to temporarily install her as the current Acting U.S. attorney in the Eastern District of Virginia specifically to obtain an indictment against former FBI Director James Comey, an indictment that the prosecutors in that office strongly recommended against in writing in a memo saying there was no evidence that James Comey committed a crime. Two people with knowledge of these secret proceedings tell MSNBC that Lindsey Halligan was alone in the room when she convinced the grand jury last Thursday to indict James Comey, MSNBC reports. Rarely does the U.S. attorney supervising such a large office lay out the facts and potential charges for a suspect to a grand jury, much less 13 days on the job with no prosecutorial experience and no background working the case. The move reinforced how uncomfortable her new staff was with presenting evidence they viewed as dubious and political retribution against Comey. And the New York Times reports just how lost and incompetent Lindsay Halligan was when she had to make her first public appearance in the case, asking a judge to accept the indictment returned by the grand jury. New York Times says Ms. Halligan, who took over on Monday after her predecessor quit rather than prosecute James B. Comey with what he believed was insufficient evidence, had a little trouble with the first two tasks. At one point, she entered the wrong courtroom. When she filed the right one, she stood on the wrong side of the judge, then appeared confused about the paperwork she just signed. Here is a transcript of the lost prosecutor at work. Judge this has never happened before. I've been handed two documents that are in the Mr. Comey case that are inconsistent with one another. There seems to be a discrepancy. They're both signed by the foreperson. The one says it's a failure to concur in an indictment. It doesn't say with respect to one count. It looks like they failed to concur across all three counts. So I'm a little confused as to why I was handed two things with the same case number that are inconsistent. Ms. Halligan. So I only reviewed the one with the two counts that our office redrafted when we found out about the two counts that were true billed and I signed that one. I did not see the other one. I don't know where that came from. Judge you didn't see it? Ms. Halligan I did not see that one. The judge so your office didn't prepare the indictment that they. Ms. Halligan no, no, no. I, no, I prepared three counts. I only signed the one, the two count, I don't know which one. With three counts you have in your hands? Judge okay, it has your signature on it. So there's Lindsey Halligan, not even knowing what she has signed in the courtroom. The first prosecutor in history who presented two grand jury documents to the judge, one indicting James Comey and the other refusing to indict James Comey, both signed by her. But the prosecutor, the judge, said she's never seen that before. I'm sure no judge ever has. And MSNBC's Carol Lennig and Ken Delaney are reporting how Donald Trump's so called border czar got recorded on Video accepting $50,000 in cash from undercover FBI agents. MSNBC reports Julian Jace Calderas, a former US immigration official who worked under Homan in the Obama administration, allegedly proposed to the agents who were posing as businessmen, that Homan, in exchange for 1 million dol, help them win lucrative federal contracts if Donald Trump became president again. According to an internal Justice Department document describing the investigation reviewed by msnbc, Calderas, co owner of a detention services and government contracting firm in Texas, first allegedly proposed the scheme in May 2023. He held several subsequent conversations with the agents about his cash for contracts proposal, culminating in a September 20, 2024 meeting in Dallas at which agents recorded Homan accepting $50,000 in cash, according to the document and sources at that same meeting. The document shows Calderas accepted $10,000 from the undercover FBI agents. His alleged proposal to undercover FBI agents, which had not previously been reported, led to a full blown Justice Department investigation of Homan, who at the time was a private consultant helping clients obtain government contracts. Joining us now is Democratic Senator Sheldon Whitehouse of Rhode Island. He's a member of the Senate Judiciary Committee, the Senate Finance Committee and the Senate Budget Committees. Senator, I just have to begin with the breaking news of the night, which is Donald Trump's fake AI video in which he puts words in the mouth of your Democratic leader of the Senate, Chuck Schumer. And has Chuck Schumer actually saying through Donald Trump's video that all elected Democrats in the country, which means you are pieces of crap. And as you know, I cleaned up that last word. Your reaction to what the President tweeted tonight, this fake AI video, you know.

[MSNBC Correspondent/Reporter]

I think it just shows where Donald Trump's mind is at. You know, he met with the entire leadership of Congress. The topic of conversation is the hit to regular Americans health care that is coming immediately from the Affordable Care act tax hit and then right behind that from the Medicaid trillion dollar hit and the Medicare half trillion dollar hit. And instead of having his mind go to how do we solve this problem for the, he retweets some AI freak putting up trash. Complete nonsense. And I think you can follow the piece of video kind of down the rat hole, but stop. Think of what it says about what's going on in the mind of Donald Trump when grownups from the House and the Senate are going over and trying to get his attention to a serious problem that even Majority Leader Thune has admitted publicly needs to be addressed. And instead of addressing it, his mind goes galloping down that warped trail.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Senator, we just presented the two different worlds of investigation in Trump world. The investigation of James Comey and then this, the non investigation of the so called border czar, Tom Homan.

[MSNBC Correspondent/Reporter]

Yeah, well, first of all, you know, I'm no fan of Jim Comey, but I've got to say I am looking forward to watching his lawyers tear into that indictment and the case behind it and the extent to which it is developed in bad faith and for political and revenge purposes. It's also going to be interesting to see what comes out about the Homans investigation. I mean, you have practically nothing on James Comey and yet an indictment, you have this guy taking $50,000 in a restaurant food bag. So who takes $50,000 cash in a bag, Right? Who doesn't have a switch go off in their brain saying wait a minute, something wrong here. I'm being offered $50,000 cash in a food bag. And then of course, they can't get their stories straight. The guy says, well I didn't do anything illegal. But he doesn't give any details. The FBI says we gave him $50,000 in a kava bag. The White House says he never took the money. He says, according to the FBI, I'm going to take this money and I'm going to put it in trust until after the Trump administration. So here are four completely different versions of the facts coming through various elements of the Trump administration. I mean, I mean this crowd, the MAGA DOJ crowd, is equal parts gangster and Gong Show.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Senator, we have to squeeze in a quick break right here. We're gonna be back with more with Senator Sheldon Whitehouse.

[Laci Mosley]

What's poppin listeners? I'm Laci Mosley, host of the podcast Scam Goddess. The show that's an ode to fraud and all those who practice it. Each week I talk with very special guests about the scammiest scammers of all time. Wanna know about the fake eras? We got em. What about a career con man? We've got them too. Guys that will wine and dine you and then steal all your coins. Oh, you know, they are represented because representation matters. I'm joined by guests like Nicole Byer, Ira Madison iii, Conan o' Brien and more. Join the congregation and listen to Scam Goddess wherever you get your podcast.

[Congressman Ro Khanna]

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[Congressman Hakeem Jeffries]

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[MSNBC Correspondent/Reporter]

Waiting for qualifying results?

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Waiting for the green flag to drop.

[Congressman Hakeem Jeffries]

Instead of pacing, we rev up with.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

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[Congressman Ro Khanna]

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[MSNBC Correspondent/Reporter]

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[Lawrence O'Donnell]

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[MSNBC Correspondent/Reporter]

Complicated than the last.

[Congressman Ro Khanna]

It can be pretty stressful.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

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[MSNBC Correspondent/Reporter]

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[Lawrence O'Donnell]

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[MSNBC Correspondent/Reporter]

The.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Wall Street Journal is now reporting what happened after Donald Trump's former criminal defense lawyer Todd Blanch, now Donald Trump's deputy Attorney general, went to Florida to interview Ghislaine Maxwell, Jeffrey Epstein's convicted co conspirator and sex trafficker. The Journal reports Blanche reported back to the White House that he believed Maxwell had been truthful and that she didn't implicate Trump, according to people with knowledge of the discussions. The next week, Maxwell, who had raised concerns about her safety in the Florida prison, was moved to a minimum security prison camp in Texas. Senator Sheldon Whitehouse is back with us. And, Senator, at the time, there was speculation about, did Todd Blanche believe this stuff? And when we got the transcript, it's filled with lies from Ghislaine Maxwell. And the reporting is, yes, he told the White House that he believes her.

[MSNBC Correspondent/Reporter]

Well, you know, this is clearly a covering effort to go down and get a potentially adverse witness on record saying things that you can then challenge her with if she were to testify at any time to the contrary. This was not an investigative deposition. This was not that kind of an inquiry where you really try to lay out the facts and follow one question with another the way one ordinarily would in a witness interview. This was, here's a dangerous witness. Let's get her to say just enough on these subjects so that we can shut her up or discredit her if she ever does tell the truth about what the hell went on between Jeffrey Epstein and Donald Trump. And the transcript of that interview just reeks of this being a cover interview and not an investigative interview. And it would come as no surprise that the communication back is, yes, she did her job, she looked credible. We know she's not telling the truth. That's okay. And we're gonna backstop her because she said good things about you, boss. And now let's give her her little reward by sending her to Club Fed instead of where she's incarcerated right now, even though it's against the rules. Again, equal parts gangster and Gong Show.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Yes, that really does. That's the phrase of the night. Gangster and Gong Show. That is Trump world. The incompetence in everything they. The Todd Blanche interview, where there was nothing lawyerly about it, is just a stunning thing to watch.

[MSNBC Correspondent/Reporter]

But Blanche and Ms. Halligan, my God, what a start she's off to, huh?

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Yes. And Blanche saying, I believe Ghislaine Maxwell is Blanche saying, I don't believe any. Any of the women who testified about them being raped by Jeffrey Epstein when they were girls.

[MSNBC Correspondent/Reporter]

I mean, she actually went before a jury and was convicted based on evidence to the highest standard. The law allows proof beyond any reasonable doubt. Her guilt is established. So for a lawyer to ignore her legally established guilt and say that he. What's next, a pardon? Maybe because she said she didn't do anything wrong. I mean, I think that's probably the end game here in the gangster swap that is being developed to get Trump out of harm's way on his long friendship with Jeffrey Epstein and whatever mischief the two of them got up together.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Ghislaine Maxwell on the pardon list after the next presidential election seems like a sure thing. Senator Sheldon Whitehouse, thank you very much for joining us tonight.

[MSNBC Correspondent/Reporter]

Thank you.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

And coming up, the Epstein estate has turned over more documents to the House Oversight Committee. Oversight Committee member Congressman Ro Khanna joins us next. I'll also ask Congressman Khanna about his reaction to Donald Trump accusing all Democrats tonight of being, quote, pieces of crap. And that's the clean version. We'll be right back.

[Laci Mosley]

What's poppin, listeners? I'm Laci Mosley, host of the podcast Scam Goddess, the show that's an ode to fraud and all those who practice it. Each week I talk with very special guests about the scammiest scammers of all time. Wanna know about the fake? We got em? What about a career con man? We've got them too. Guys that will wine and dine you and then steal all your coins. Oh, you know, they are represented because representation matters. I'm joined by guests like Nicole Byer, Ira Madison iii, Conan o' Brien and more. Join the congregation and listen to Scam Goddess wherever you get your podcasts.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

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[MSNBC Correspondent/Reporter]

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[Lawrence O'Donnell]

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[Lawrence O'Donnell]

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[MSNBC Correspondent/Reporter]

Expensive and more complicated than the last.

[Congressman Ro Khanna]

It can be pretty stressful.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Now imagine Odoo. Odoo has all the programs you'll ever need and are all connected on one platform. Doesn't Odoo sound amazing? Let Odoo harmonize your business with simple, efficient software that can handle everything for.

[MSNBC Correspondent/Reporter]

A fraction of the price.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Sign up [e-mail] that's o-o o.com and so we live in a country tonight where for the first time in history, the President of the United States has included everyone in the other political party to be, in his words, quote pieces of crap and the last word is not a quote, because I will not, on this program sink to Donald Trump's level of profanity. Donald Trump has softened the country as much as he can to accept presidential profanity. And now tonight, presidential madness. We'll get Congressman Ro Khanna's reaction to that in just a moment. Congressman Khanna is a member of the House Oversight Committee that continues to release new documents obtained by subpoena from the estate of Jeffrey Epstein, which was Congressman Khanna's idea. That's the way to get those documents came from him. The Democrats on the committee issued a statement saying within. Within documents of Epstein's schedule, there is evidence that Peter Thiel and Steve Bannon had scheduled meetings with Epstein, as well as evidence of a pending trip by Elon Musk to Epstein's island. Prince Andrew is listed as a passenger on Epstein's aircraft, with financial disclosures providing possible evidence of payments from Epstein to masseuses on behalf of an individual identified as Andrew. Extensive redactions have been made to protect victims as committee investigators continue to analyze the new documents. This is a rolling production, and the committee expects to receive more documents in response to these and other requests. Joining our coverage now is Democratic Congressman Ro Khanna of California. He's a member of the House Oversight Committee. And Congressman, as I was hoping not to have to do this, but within the hour before, before this program began, Donald Trump, the President of the United States, hard to believe, posted something on social media that I'm sure by now you've seen. It is racist. It is vile. It is Trump at his most stupid and horrendous in every way and possibly demented, possibly slipping into serious, serious public dementia. He insulted you and every elected Democrat in the country. Country in that video. What's your reaction to it?

[Congressman Ro Khanna]

Lawrence? This was personal. For me. As a son of immigrants, it's just as sad to see the President of the United States put an African American leader in a sombrero, mocking our differences instead of trying to bring us together. I remember growing up in Bucks County, Pennsylvania, never facing that kind of ridicule in the 1970s or 1980s. But you know what's even sadder is that we have deeply unserious people in charge of this country. They view politics as cheap comedy. And that has consequences. Failed economic policies, higher prices, failed science policies, no vaccines. They're taking a sledgehammer to our crown jewels of universities doing medical research and innovation. And at some point, this country needs to ask itself, do you just want an entertainer? Do you just want A cheap laugh? Or do you want substantive politics and the grit that actually built this country? Because I'm concerned for the country. Everything I love is being torn down by people who are deeply unserious and don't understand the sacrifices of what has gone into building our nation.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Yeah, I mean, Donald Trump seems intent on only two entertaining people who are filled with hatred and bigotry for Hakeem Jeffries and Chuck Schumer and you and others. And protecting himself and any of his friends who are in the Epstein files.

[Congressman Ro Khanna]

Well, absolutely. And the reality is, look, they're not swearing in Adelita Grijova, who won an election 69% to 30%. She should be sworn in tomorrow. They're not doing it. Why? They don't want to vote on the release of the Epstein file. They are not having us back voting in Congress even as we're shutting down. Usually they always have members of Congress casting some pro forma votes. They're not doing that because they don't want the release of the Epstein files. And then today, thanks to your reporting, I just remind that you credited me. But it was your show that really led to us getting the lead to get the files from Epstein. We see that Jeffrey Epstein is hanging out with Elon Musk, Peter Thiel, Bill Gates. You know, presidents of the United States don't hang out with those people in a few weeks. What are all these people doing with Jeffrey Epstein? Why are they there? Who is covering up? We know none of this, and there's something rotten there, and that's why they're hiding it.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

The survivors of Jeffrey Epstein, who you have met with, no one in the Trump Justice Department has met with. Todd Blanche had never met with them. But Todd Blanche talked to Ghislaine Maxwell, and he said he believes Ghislaine Maxwell, which means Donald Trump's former criminal defense lawyer, now the deputy Attorney general, is in effect saying that all of the women you've spoken to, survivors of Jeffrey Epstein, all of them, are lying.

[Congressman Ro Khanna]

Well, and he's. He's saying not only are the survivors lying, he's saying that Nancy Mace is lying who heard the survivors. He's saying that Marjorie Taylor Greene is lying who hurt the survivors. He's saying that Speaker Johnson, who sat there for two hours, is lying because he said that he believed the survivors. So basically, it's the survivors and everyone who heard them against Donald Trump. And what's so sad, Lawrence, is that almost every Republican Congress believes that they should vote to release these files. They are not doing it because they're afraid of Donald Trump. That is the truth. Johnson would release these files tomorrow. There would be a vote tomorrow. They are all afraid of Donald Trump. They're afraid of a guy who's putting out AI videos mocking people's race and ethnicity in this country. And at some point, when are they going to find an ounce of courage to stand up for this country? That's really the question with the Epstein files.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Carson. Ro Khanna, thank you very much for joining us tonight.

[Congressman Ro Khanna]

Thank you.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Congress Congressman Ro Khanna gets tonight's last word.

[Laci Mosley]

What's poppin, listeners? I'm Laci Mosley, host of the podcast Scam Goddess, the show that's an ode to fraud and all those who practice it. Each week I talk with very special guests about the scammiest scammers of all time. Wanna know about the fake errors? We got em. What about a career con man? We've got them too. Guys that will wine and dine you and then steal all your coins. Oh, you know, they are represented because representation matters. I'm joined by guests like Nicole Byer, Ira Madison iii, Conan o' Ryan and more. Join the congregation and listen to Scam Goddess. Wherever you get your podcasts.