← The Last Word with Lawrence O’Donnell
The Last Word with Lawrence O’Donnell
Lawrence on Trump attacking the rule of law: We are all Harvard. We are all Abrego Garcia.
00:40:22
Tonight on The Last Word: The Trump Justice Department argues courts can’t force Kilmar Abrego Garcia’s return. Also, Donald Trump declines to say what imports might be exempt from future tariffs. And Democrats host town halls to amplify voters’ concerns. Andrew Weissmann, Catherine Rampell, Rep. Greg Stanton, and fmr Rep. David Jolly join Lawrence O’Donnell.
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Lawrence O'Donnell
Well, today, what one judge has called the lawlessness of Donald Trump and his staff was made vivid once again in two hugely important stories that are really about us, about all of us, every one of us. And it might not seem that way at first. One is the story of an immigrant who was shipped off to a prison in El Salvador, something that could never happen to U.S. citizens, right? And the other story is about an exclusive private institution far removed from your life. It seems that has nothing to do with you, or at least it seems that way. But today we are all Kilmar Armando Abrego Garcia. Because Donald Trump said today very clearly that he wants to be able to throw anyone in a prison in El Salvador and throw away the key, even if that person has committed no crime. And that means us. That means all of us. Because Donald Trump and his lawyers are insisting through the courts that even after they make a mistake, as they admit they did in the case of Mr. Abrego Garcia, they don't have to fix that mistake and they can leave him in that prison forever. And if the mistake they make the next time with you or me is that they sent us to an El Salvador prison even though we didn't commit a crime, and even though we are United States citizens, that mistake cannot be fixed. According to Donald Trump and his lawyer lawyers, no American court can order that an American citizen illegally deported to a prison in El Salvador by Donald Trump can ever be saved from that mistake. That's the position of the President of the United States and his lawyers. And there has never been a darker statement made by a president of the United States or his lawyers about what it means to live in America. The than that statement, Donald Trump is the only president who believes he can snatch anyone off the streets in the United States, send that person to El Salvador, find out later that that person never committed a crime and is a citizen of the United States or any other mistake Donald Trump made in the seizure of that person. And Donald Trump can leave that person in prison in El Salvador for the rest of time. That is is the constitutional dementia of Donald Trump. Donald Trump and his lawyers brought the same constitutional dementia to an attack on our oldest American. Using his own library of hundreds of books as the very first contribution to Harvard University, a Puritan minister named John Harvard created America's first university in 1636, 153 years before the government of the United States of America was created. Harvard graduates played a major role in the creation of the United States of America, including the second President of the United States, John Adams. More presidents of the United States went to Harvard than any other school. And not one of those previous presidents of the United States, whether they went to Harvard or not, ever attempted to seize control over Harvard University, as Donald Trump attempted to do before he got crushed by the oldest institution in America today, the oldest American in that sense, Harvard University. Donald Trump and his lawyers threatened Harvard, as they have already to other universities, that they would be cut off from any federal contributions to the important research, including life saving research, done at Harvard and other universities, unless Harvard simply, in effect, made Donald Trump the president of Harvard. Donald Trump demanded control over the admissions policy at Harvard University. Donald Trump demanded, in writing, control over all hiring at Harvard University. From professors to the maintenance staff to cooks in the cafeteria to the football coach. Every single job at Harvard University was to come under, under control of the President of the United States. And the President of the United States alone would decide who should or should not be hired at Harvard University, who should or should not be admitted to Harvard College. Imagine Donald Trump sitting there in the Oval Office deciding who should be admitted to a university, who should be admitted to Harvard Medical School or Harvard Law School or Harvard Divinity School or the business school or the dental school or all the other graduate schools. Donald Trump wanted to control all of that. His lawyers sent a letter to Harvard on Friday demanding all of that control. In demanding absurdly and stupidly vague things like, quote, reducing the power held by students, they did not put in writing what that means. They also demanded, quote, reducing the power held by faculty, and again, a phrase that has no meaning. And Donald Trump and his lawyers demanded in writing the right for them to get rid of professors who Donald Trump has decided are, quote, more committed to activism than scholarship. Harvard biologist George Wald, who won the Nobel Prize, was certainly as committed to activism as he was to scholarship during the Vietnam War. George Wald appeared at countless anti war demonstrations around the country protesting the Vietnam War. George Wald was a hero to the Harvard students who took over a Harvard building in protest for the first time in the history of that university in 1969, to protest the war that Donald Trump was afraid to fight and afraid to protest. Donald Trump was a rich, rich draft age kid who now, at age 78, was just declared in perfect health by a military physician who gave him a physical last week. Donald Trump found a way for his health to be imperfect enough with alleged bone spurs that no longer show up in his physicals to keep him out of Vietnam. And so Donald Trump didn't support the war in Vietnam. He didn't oppose the war in Vietnam. He did the most spoiled thing you could possibly do at the time. He just took his bone spurs to a golf course to work on his golf swing while brave young men his age were dying in Vietnam and other brave young men his age were trying to prevent more deaths in Vietnam by the kind that Donald Trump wants to end. Donald Trump wants to end in this country. The kind of protest that he wants to end in this country actually began in Boston, the Boston Tea Party. That's the kind of protest Donald Trump would now call terrorism. I know most people might not realize what Harvard University has done for all of us, including people not only who will not only never see Harvard University, but will never even visit the United States and might never have anyone in their family go to college anywhere in the world. Harvard University has helped us all on this planet in more ways than we know and saved the lives of loved ones in more ways than we know. The smallpox vaccine. You can thank Harvard for that. Benjamin Waterhouse came up with the smallpox vaccine in 1799. Anesthesia. A lot of us have benefited from that. A lot of us did not have to go through surgery wide awake like in the old days, feeling every cut, every slice, thanks to the dean of Harvard Medical School, John Warren, who used anesthesia for the very first time at Massachusetts General Hospital in Boston, which is a teaching hospital affiliated with Harvard University that Don Donald Trump is now threatening to defund because Harvard will not let Donald Trump become the president of Harvard. And so, yes, Donald Trump is threatening your health care tonight in more ways than you can count, including at teaching hospitals like Mass General. The EKG that Donald Trump had during his physical last week that apparently indicates his heart is fine. He can thank Harvard for that EKG. Dr. Paul Dudley White of Harvard Medical School introduced the electrocardiogram in 1914. And literally millions upon millions upon millions of lives have been saved around the world by that intervention. We are all related to someone whose life was saved by something doctors saw in an EKG that allowed cardiologists to take action to save that life. Polio was not just a crippling disease, it was a fatal disease. The first polio patient ever saved from dying was in 1929, thanks to Harvard Medical School. In 1938, Harvard performed the first corrective heart surgery for children. And Harvard has not been asking the parents of children with heart conditions to thank Harvard for decades for the way doctors around the world have learned to save those children with heart problems. Thanks to the breakthrough in corrective heart surgery for children at Harvard in 1938. The first artificial kidney. We can thank Harvard for that in 1947. The first kidney transplant in 1952 at a Harvard Medical School hospital. And Donald Trump should be very, very grateful for Harvard inventing his favorite pill in 1954, the oral contraceptive for women that millions of women around the world have been able to use to control their own choices in life. Harvard pioneered telemedicine in 1968, non invasive fetal heart monitoring in 1973. And the first MRI was in Boston at Massachusetts General Hospital, Harvard's teaching Hospital, in 1979. And for those of you who haven't yet needed an MRI or an ekg, Harvard invented laser tattoo removal. And so the list of Harvard's research accomplishments just in medicine that benefit all of us around the world is endless. And Harvard research has contributed to every area of science. The world renowned chemist James B. Conant was president of Harvard during World War II when the United States embarked on a secret research program called the Manhattan Project. It was called the Manhattan Project because it began at Columbia University, a university. Donald Trump is also trying to take over Harvard. President James Conant's secret choice of the person to run the Manhattan Project was Robert Oppenheimer, who moved the Manhattan Project to New Mexico and brought the world into the nuclear age. With Harvard professors contributing breakthroughs, along with professors from Columbia and institutions that Donald Trump despises now and wants to simply seize and take over today. Harvard's lawyers responded to Donald Trump's lawyers by refusing the Trump demands, saying that they were, quote, in contravention of the First Amendment, invade university freedoms long recognized by the Supreme Court. The university will not surrender its independence or relinquish its constitutional rights. Neither Harvard nor any other private university can allow itself to be taken over by the federal government. And that is the way you Stand up to tyrants. And that is what Harvard did for all of us today, stood up to the tyrants. The pretext for the Trump attempted takeover of Harvard and other universities is that Donald Trump believes there is nothing more important for a university to do than to oppose antisemitism, which every one of these universities already does and did long before Donald Trump ever pretended to do that. Although Harvard University is 150 years older than the United States of America, Harvard had fewer presidents than the United States of America. So, numerically, the Harvard presidency is a more exclusive club than the American presidency. And the current president of Harvard is the latest in a series of Jewish presidents that Harvard has had in a country that has never had a Jewish president of the United States. Today, Harvard's president, Alan Garber, who happens to be Jewish, sent a mass email to the Harvard community, which includes everyone currently affiliated with Harvard and everyone who has graduated from Harvard. And he said, no government, regardless of which party is in power, should dictate what private universities can teach, whom they can admit and hire, and which areas of study and inquiry they can pursue. We proceed now, as always, with the conviction that the fearless and unfettered pursuit of truth liberates humanity, and with faith in the enduring promise that America's colleges and universities hold for our country and the world. President Garber cited Harvard's ancient motto, veritas, which is Latin for truth, and then said, seeking truth is a journey without end. No one working for Donald Trump can understand a word of what Harvard's president said today in the Trump lawyer's threatening letter to Harvard demanding changes. At Harvard, they kept repeating the phrase, reforms must be durable. That was their word, durable. Harvard has a lot to teach Donald Trump and his lawyers about what durable means. 389 years. How's that for durable? Harvard is much more durable than Donald Trump and his lawyers. And Harvard will be there long after them. The great circular idiocy of the Trump threatening letter to Harvard says that they insist, quote, the university must immediately shutter all diversity, equity, and inclusion programs. And in the same letter, they demand diversity, and that is their word. They demand, quote, hiring a critical mass of new faculty within that department or field who will provide viewpoint diversity. And so in that Trump sentence, diversity is a good word. And diversity is exactly why Donald Trump is trying to take over Harvard University. That's what his letter says. And in another line of the same letter, they use the word diversity as a slur, as they usually do. That's how broken the brain of Donald Trump is. He doesn't know what diversity means. His lawyers do not know what diversity means means. And they proved that by demanding diversity from Harvard University while forbidding Harvard University to pursue diversity. That is as stupid as you can get and have a law degree and dare to write a threatening letter like this to Harvard University. The same willful stupidity and lawlessness is at work from Donald Trump, forcing us all to live with the mistake that he made by sending Kilmar Abrego Garcia to prison in El Salvador. He actually sat in the Oval Office today with the president of El Salvador who presents himself as an international gangster of some sort, eager to do business gangster style in the Oval Office with the president who now says he wants to send American citizens to his gangster friends prison in El Salvador. No one in the room complained about the visiting gangster president not wearing a necktie in the Oval Office, the way a complaint was voiced in that room about the heroic wartime president of Ukraine, Vladimir Zelensky, not wearing a necktie in that room. Here is Donald Trump saying he wants to send American citizens to a prison in El Salvador, a place where he has sent at least one person by mistake. And yes, Donald Trump says he wants to send people who've committed crimes, but he has already said that that's who he wants to send to prison. And he sent one person to prison and it was a complete mistake. So as you listen to this, think about what it means to live in a country where a mistake could be anyone. It could be anyone who did not commit a crime or commit any crimes anywhere ever. Someone just grabbed by masked federal agents of Donald Trump as we have seen them do to other people on the street, thinking that couldn't happen to us, grab that person, spirit that person off to an airport, fly that person to a prison in El Salvador and then, and only then, find out or claim that only then they found out that that person is an American citizen who has never been charged with a crime, never committed a crime, and is there by mistake. And Donald Trump has already insisted, insisted that it is impossible to get anyone back from that prison in El Salvador. That anyone could be. You listen to what Donald Trump said today and understand he could be talking about anyone. You know, anyone in your family, anyone.
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Pam
I said it to Pam. I don't know what the laws are. We always have to obey the laws. But we also have homegrown criminals that push people into subways, that hit elderly ladies on the back of the head with a baseball bat when they're not looking, that are absolute monsters. I'd like to Include them in the group of people to get them out of the country. But you'll have to be looking at the laws on that.
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Lawrence O'Donnell
Leading off our discussion tonight is Andrew Weissman, former FBI general counsel, former chief of the Criminal Division in the Eastern District of New York. He's also an MSNBC legal analyst. And, Andrew, we just heard Donald Trump say, I don't know what the laws are. That's pretty obvious. What should he be told about this? If we had a responsible attorney general?
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Andrew Weissman
Let's start with something that the Supreme Court has ordered. The Supreme Court has ordered that this administration must facilitate the release and return of Mr. Garcia and that he be assured the due process rights that he was entitled to when he was here before he was removed. They have not done that. In fact, they haven't even asked the question or answered the question for any court. Have they even asked the president of El Salvador to release him? Of course they would. And in the same Oval Office, to your point about the sort of stupidity or the hypocrisy of what they're doing, pointing it out with respect to the Harvard letter, in the same Oval Office meeting where the current Trump administration wants to say, we have no power and cannot control and have no influence or say over El Salvador, in the same breath, they say, oh, you need to open five more prisons because we're going to send lots more people there pursuant to this joint agreement we have. And my God, they told us that they're paying to have American people and foreigners housed there on our behalf. So this shell game that these people are somehow not within our control is. It's so ludicrous if it weren't so serious, because it's such a violation of the Supreme Court's decision in this case. And so it's exactly what you're saying with respect to Harvard. But it's now talking about an innocent person who, as we speak, Lawrence, is in jail because of this administration's lawlessness and callousness.
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Lawrence O'Donnell
Yeah. And the Trump position is, and their position to the courts is any mistake that we discover once one of these people has left the United States cannot be corrected by any judge in America, including the United States Supreme Court. And that's where it becomes any one of us. Because the mistake could be, oh, I didn't know that was Andrew Weissman, the American citizen law professor. We thought that was someone else. So we sent them down to El Salvador to the prison, and then we discovered that's who it is. But no judge can tell us what to do now because that judge would be interfering with foreign policy.
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Andrew Weissman
Absolutely. And that flies in the face of the second Supreme Court decision, which is that people cannot be removed. The people who are in El Salvador now were entitled and should not have been removed there unless there was a due process hearing, precisely to avoid the problem that you saw with Mr. Garcia, which is that he was, he should not have been removed at all. And this is where it doesn't matter that these people are innocent or guilty. These are people who are entitled to a hearing to determine whether the government is applying and proceeding in a way that comports with the law. That is something, as I keep on reminding people, that is something that you would think that Donald Trump, having been a defendant, a criminal defendant in four cases, would have an appreciation for due process rights. He was afforded those rights and took advantage of them, and he is now denying it to all of these people. It is so lawless. And I should just say it's so similar to what we're seeing on the Harvard front. I mean, these are not diverse stories. They're one and the same, which is an abuse of federal power. And you're seeing it in just different contexts, but it's the exact same thing. And you're not seeing anybody in the administration pushing back and saying no in Trump 2.0 in the way that you saw at least some of that in the first administration.
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Lawrence O'Donnell
And I guarantee you there are people sitting in that Oval Office today whose children and grandchildren will be applying to Harvard. Trump grandchildren, children will be applying to Harvard. They will continue to pursue it as they always have while they try to make it a political game or some sort of gain for Donald Trump trying to take over Harvard. Andrew Weisman, thank you very much for starting off our discussions tonight. Really appreciate it.
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Andrew Weissman
You're welcome.
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Lawrence O'Donnell
And coming up, the Wall Street Journal editorial board says that the only thing we know about Donald Trump's tariff policy is there is no policy. The tariff madness of Donald Trump is next with Kathryn Rampel. The stock market went down again today thanks to Donald Trump's tariffs. CNBC reports, quote, the major stock indexes ended Monday's session higher, buoyed by the tech sector after the Trump administration announced exemptions from reciprocal tariffs for electronic products such as smartphones, computers and semiconductors. At 10:36pm on Friday, the U.S. customs and Border Protections office said that smartphones, computers and other electronics from China are excluded from Trump tariffs. In a notice to shippers two days later, Donald Trump posted, quote, there was no tariff exception announced on Friday. These products are subject to the existing 20% fentanyl. The wall Street Journal editorial board wrote about Trump's, quote, exceptional tariff weekend. So what happened and what's the real policy? Who knows? These Customs and Border protection exemptions would be good news for consumers who were otherwise facing much higher prices for smartphones that are a staple of modern life. How would you like a $2,400 iPhone? Welcome to the new tariff economy, where you still pay onerous taxes, endure punishing regulation, and now must also navigate the political minefield of arbitrary tariffs. Joining us now is Katherine Rand Pell, co host of the new evening edition of MSNBC's the Weekend on Saturday and Sunday. She's also opinion columnist for the Washington Post. So, Catherine, have you purchased, made an emergency purchase of a new iPhone in the fear that they're going to be $5,000 iPhones around the corner?
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Katherine Rampell
I have not. The problem here is that our president cannot keep the same tariff regime for two minutes, you know, let alone several months. Who knows, between the time that I walk from here to the Apple Store, maybe the tariffs will have changed yet again and will be retroactive for all we know. That's part of the problem here. Consumers can't plan. Businesses can't plan. Multinationals can't plan. If you are a company, how do you know whether you can make an investment? How do you know what your prices will be? How do you know if you can hire people or make a purchase order? It's all extremely convoluted and there's no certainty. And in fact, if you look at what the Commerce Department released today about its coming tariffs on semiconductors, it indicated that not only would it be tariffing the semiconductors and products that contain semiconductors, so iPhones and computers and things like that, but the machinery used to make semiconductors, just so people watching at home understand what that means. It means that companies that are trying to do as Trump wants and are on shoring chip manufacturing, semiconductor manufacturing here in the United States, they too would pay higher prices for the machinery, the equipment they need to make those very products. So their costs are going to go up. None of this makes any sense.
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Lawrence O'Donnell
Yeah, and the the public seems to get it. The polling now, every day is worse for Donald Trump on this issue, including the public's comprehension of who pays the tariffs, something Donald Trump has lied about. Every time he's ever talked about who pays the tariffs, he's always told the lie that China pays the tariffs. Americans, including some Trump voters, are finally realizing, oh, no, no, we pay those. Those are sales taxes to US well.
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Katherine Rampell
To be fair, we don't know exactly how much of that cost will be passed through to American consumers versus businesses, you know, importers or perhaps the suppliers in China or abroad. It will really depend on the market. But if you look at what happened last time Trump was in office and imposed tariffs, almost all of those tariffs were paid in some respect by Americans, whether those were consumers or businesses. And at the very least, I would expect something similar with a lot of the markets he's tariffing today, particularly if there isn't a great substitute. So we've been talking about semiconductors and electronics and things like that. It went completely under the radar today that Trump also decided to tariff Mexican tomatoes. So if you voted for Donald Trump because you thought he was going to bring down your grocery prices, I have some very bad news for you because about two thirds of our tomatoes that are fresh tomatoes that are consumed by Americans in this country come from Mexico. And it doesn't seem likely that we are going to suddenly be able to produce to replace that quantity here in the United States. So, yeah, it's going to result in higher prices for Americans at the grocery store.
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Lawrence O'Donnell
Katherine Rappel, thank you very much for joining us tonight.
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Katherine Rampell
Thank you.
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Lawrence O'Donnell
Coming up, Democrats are holding town halls in Republican districts where Republicans refuse to do it, refused to face their voters. Senator Cory Booker did that yesterday in Arizona with our next guest, Arizona Democratic Congressman Greg Stanton. That's next.
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- [29:56]
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Lawrence O'Donnell
We've got some breaking news right now.
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Watch your favorite shows live.
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Lawrence O'Donnell
There's a lot happening here in Washington as Donald Trump's second term starts to take shape.
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MSNBC Advertiser
Read live blogs and in depth essays and listen to coverage as it unfolds. Go beyond the what to understand the why. Download the app now@msnbc.com app the first 100 days, bills are passed, executive orders are signed and presidencies are defined. And for Donald Trump's first 100 days, Rachel Maddow is on MSNBC five nights a week.
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Lawrence O'Donnell
Now is the time. So we're gonna do it, providing her.
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Unique insight and analysis during this critical time.
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Lawrence O'Donnell
How do we strategically align ourselves to this moment of information, this moment of.
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Lawrence O'Donnell
New Jersey's senior senator, Democrat Cory Booker, joined Democrats in Tucson, Arizona on Sunday, including Senator Mark Kelly and his wife, former Congresswoman Gabby Giffords, for a town hall in a Republican held district. The event took place at the 6th in Arizona's 6th congressional district, where constituents of Republican Congressman Juan Sisamani have been demanding a town hall.
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Greg Stanton
This is the rough time now, Siskamani, you need to listen to the people, at least take it in, listen to their concerns and then go back to Washington.
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David Jolly
Protest organizers say at least 600 people gathered outside Congressman Juan Siskamani's office demanding a town hall.
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Lawrence O'Donnell
During yesterday's town hall, Senator Booker said.
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Cory Booker
The reality is we're here to center your voices, to center your stories. I was taught as a young man, my parents made it very clear to me that you got to stand up even if your legs shake. You got to stand up and speak even though your voice breaks. That in a nation that has always been founded and formed and shaped and bent by the American people, that we know that change doesn't necessarily come from Washington, but it always comes to Washington by the people who make it happen.
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Lawrence O'Donnell
Arizona Democratic Congressman Greg Stanton, who will join us in a moment, also spoke at yesterday's town hall and said this.
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David Jolly
So we want to change the political calculus. We want Congressman Siskamani and Republicans around this country not to have their top motivating factor, fear of Trump, but respecting the people that they represent. That's what this town hall is all about.
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Lawrence O'Donnell
Joining us now is Democratic Congressman Greg Stanton of Arizona. He's a member of the House Foreign Affairs Committee. Congressman, what were the major, was there a single major issue at this town hall that was of concern for these voters?
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David Jolly
First off, it was a huge crowd. It sold out in no time at all. There was a they had to turn away a lot of people to participate. The single theme was people in Arizona and across the country are really angry. They're angry at the chaos, chaos in health care, for example, with the proposed dismantling of our Medicaid system, which would affect tens of millions of Americans. They're really angry about that. They're angry about the dismantling of our economy with these tariffs. People are really smart. They know that this is the highest tax increase ever proposed on the American people during peacetime. These tariffs and then the chaos of going back and forth whether they're on, they're off, what countries are on. Obviously, the district we were in yesterday is directly next door to Mexico. We need to have a strong working relationship with Mexico. These high tariffs will put us in a very difficult position to win the economic competition with China. The educational chaos, the attack on our universities, the attack on the Department of Education, the attempt to dismantle the Department of Education. People are angry at the chaos, and they came out in full force to express that anger.
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Lawrence O'Donnell
You know, and that point about the attack on the universities, the attack on Harvard is an attack on all universities. There's important research being done on, at the great research universities all over the country. We're going to have breakthroughs eventually on Alzheimer's and Parkinson's and other things that we're struggling with. And we don't know where they're going to come from. It might be in a lab in Arizona somewhere that does have some government funding to it, where the cure to things that are plaguing some of the senior citizens of Arizona is waiting to happen.
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David Jolly
Look where we had the town hall with Senator Booker and Senator Kelly was right by the campus of a great American research university, the University of Arizona. And now Trump has cut off hundreds of millions of research dollars to these universities doing basic research and things like trying to cure cancer. Our universities in America may be our greatest competitive advantage because they teach innovation, they teach entrepreneurialism, they teach leadership. And for this administration to attack these universities and see our Republican colleagues just stay silent, because what people are so frustrated about is not just what they're doing in terms of taking Medicaid away, proposing to take Medicaid away from tens of millions of our Americans, denying them the opportunity to see a primary care physician. They're equally as angry at the silence. The silence on. The attack on our universities, the silence when President Trump encourages members of Congress to impeach judges. The attack on our judiciary just because they don't like a particular decision a judge has made that is un American. And the silence is deafening. And the American people understand exactly what's going on. And it's one of the reasons why these town halls have been so huge, because people want a form, a format to express their anger, and we need to give it to them. Whether it's, you know, in a Democratic district or a Republican district, the people turning out are not Democrats, just Democrats. There are a lot of Democrats, but there are a lot of Republicans, a lot of independents who understand what is going on. This is attack on our government, attack on our institutions, attack on our veterans because they fired so many veterans from the veterans department. Other government, government entities. People are angry and they want to express that and that's what these town halls, it's why they're so important.
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Lawrence O'Donnell
Congressman Greg Stanton, thank you very much for joining us tonight.
- [36:49]
David Jolly
Thanks, Lawrence. Have a great one.
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Lawrence O'Donnell
Coming up in Florida tonight, in a key Republican district, reliably Republican Democratic Party leaders met with voters there to hear their concerns about Donald Trump's attacks on Social Security, Medicaid, Medicare, Medicaid, other government programs. Florida Congressman and former former Florida Republican Congressman David Jolly was there and he will join us next.
- [37:18]
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- [37:33]
Katherine Rampell
Do you think now that he's pardoned everybody, he can count on this group of people again?
- [37:37]
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- [37:57]
Lawrence O'Donnell
I do think it's worth being very clear eyed, very realistic about what's going on here.
- [38:03]
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- [38:22]
Greg Stanton
What I'm interested in is conversation, not an interrogation.
- [38:25]
Lawrence O'Donnell
He was the person to be interviewed by.
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- [38:31]
Greg Stanton
Well, welcome please.
- [38:32]
Lawrence O'Donnell
The Beatles, Muhammad Ali, Jane Fonda, one.
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- [38:52]
Lawrence O'Donnell
Senators Elizabeth Warren of Massachusetts, Kirsten Gillibrand of New York and Ron Wyden of Oregon wrote a joint letter to the acting Social Security Administration commissioner yesterday saying we are concerned these cuts will lead to further website and benefit disruptions preventing tens of millions of Americans from accessing their hard earned Social Security and Supplemental Security Income benefits. Republican Daniel Webster represents Florida's 11th congressional district. It's home of the Villages, one of the nation's largest retirement communities. Reliably Republican since Congressman Webster ref. To hold town halls tonight, Democrats decided to hold one of their own, featuring among others, former Florida Republican Congressman David Jolley what is happening right now is.
- [39:45]
Greg Stanton
Happening across the country because we know what we see before our eyes. We are in a constitutional crisis right now. We're not waiting on one. We are in one. And it is okay to use language like that. It is okay to recognize it, and it is okay to say with every waking breath that we oppose Donald Trump and this administration.
- [40:08]
Lawrence O'Donnell
Joining us now is former Republican Congressman David Yali of Florida. He's also an MSNBC political analyst. And David, you're there in the villages and I'm hearing applause for that message you delivered. And it's give us the report from the field. What is getting through down there? We always wonder. There's so many things happening from tariffs to deportations to that. What gets, what gets through and what gets through to those voters, many of whom are on Social Security. All of whom are on Social Security and Medicare.
- [40:41]
Greg Stanton
Yeah, Lawrence, I'm actually doing about a dozen of these across the state of Florida. And there are some similar themes. Certainly the anxiety and the unrest is over people's individual economic security, whether that's because they're in the market and given Donald Trump's moves with tariffs and the market crashing, or whether they're a beneficiary of Social Security services, veterans services, whether they're receiving some special needs services for a family member. The Doge cuts are real to many people and they're concerned about it. They're concerned about their personal security. But here's a fascinating thing, Lawrence. I ask two questions at the beginning of every one of these town halls. First I ask, are you excited today to be a Democrat? And people roar. They're excited about being a Democrat in this moment. They are not laying down. They're not concerned about the overall brand of the Democratic Party. They believe in the values of the Democratic Party and they believe Democrats provide the vessel to beat back Trumpism, but also to offer a positive alternative. And here's the second thing I Are there any first time attendees? Is this your first time at a town hall or a Democratic Club event or the first time coming out? Lawrence that number is amazing. If Tonight we had 350 people total, 50 to 75, this was their very first time turning out for an event. Here's why it matters. If you look at the 24 numbers, the 2024 numbers, Democrats lost for a number of reasons. But one is too many Democrats stayed home. That's not the case. Now Democrats are turning out and the other is Donald Trump turned out a lot of first time voters that overperformed for Donald Trump. Now you're seeing first time participants in politics say I want to be a part of the Democratic coalition. They are all asking the Democratic Party to provide a platform, to provide them infrastructure, to teach them how do we reach people and turn out votes, to stop the direction of the country and to reorient around the values that are important for us. Listen, there is a political movement going on right now, Lawrence. It is a powerful thing to watch.
- [42:38]
Lawrence O'Donnell
And David, it is so unusual. You know, in my experience, the idea of, you know, the other side going into Democrats going into a Republican district for a town hall. Democrats were struggling and Republicans too were struggling to get people to show up for their town halls in their own districts. And now you can get a bigger crowd by going to a Republican district.
- [43:01]
Greg Stanton
Well, look, I can tell you something else. People want to know that their representative is fighting for them, is fighting against Trumpism. Obviously Republicans on the Hill have collapsed. Part of the constitutional crisis isn't just Trump's malfeasance, it's the Republicans have laid down. But I'll also tell you Democrats are watching Democratic leaders just as much. Lawrence, you've been through a lot of cycles. I'm not sure this is as much of a blue wave cycle we're entering as it may be a throw the bums out. There is an anti incumbent fervor and concern. But it's a very rational Democratic base right now that knows we just have to win. This is not a fight over ideology, left versus center. This is about how do we build a coalition to win and take back control.
- [43:42]
Lawrence O'Donnell
David Yali, thanks for your report from the Fields tonight.
- [43:46]
Greg Stanton
Thank you Lords.
- [43:50]
Lawrence O'Donnell
David Yali delivers tonight's last word from Florida.
- [43:53]
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