← The Last Word with Lawrence O’Donnell
The Last Word with Lawrence O’Donnell
Lawrence: President Zelenskyy had a successful day in the Trump White House
00:41:29
Tonight on The Last Word: Donald Trump backs away from his demand for a ceasefire in Ukraine. Also, the House Oversight Committee questions former Attorney General Barr about the Jeffrey Epstein case. And coffee prices are up because of Trump’s tariffs. Rep. Adam Smith, Rep. Robert Garcia, and Rep. Ro Khanna join Lawrence O’Donnell.
Loading summary
Transcript60 lines
- [00:00]
MSNBC Announcer
Avoiding your unfinished home projects because you're not sure where to start. Thumbtack knows homes, so you don't have to don't know the difference between matte, paint, finish and satin or what that clunking sound from your dryer is. With Thumbtack, you don't have to be a home pro, you just have to hire one. You can hire top rated pros, see price estimates and read reviews all on the app. Download today Saturday, October 11th from New York City, it's MSNBC Live 25. Join your favorite MSNBC hosts Rachel Maddow, Joe Scar, Mika Brzezinski, Nicole Wallace, Ari Melber, Alicia Menendez, Simone Sanders Townsend, Michael Steele, Chris Haynes, jen Psaki, Lawrence O', Donnell, Stephanie Rule and more. Visit msnbc.comlive25 to buy your tickets today.
- [00:51]
Lawrence O'Donnell
Well, it was another successful day in the White House for the President. That president was, of course, Volodymyr Zelenskyy. President Zelenskyy, the most heroic European leader of the 21st century, went to the White House today surrounded by seven other European leaders, including five European heads of state, to prevent Donald Trump from doing something crazy. That was the whole purpose of their trip. And once again, President Zelenskyy and the European leaders succeeded. Donald Trump did nothing crazy today about Ukraine and only today. We don't know what happens tomorrow, but that is what a successful day looks like now in a White House which used to be occupied by presidents who tried to prevent Russian dictators from doing something crazy. Success for Donald Trump today was measured in how much his not doing something crazy on Ukraine could distract attention from Donald Trump's long friendship with child rapist Jeffrey Epstein and his criminal co conspirator who also physically abused children with Jeffrey Epstein Ghislaine Maxwell, who is also a friend of Donald Trump's and currently serving a 20 year sentence for sex trafficking, a sentence that Donald Trump made much easier by recently transferring her to the most lenient federal facility for women prison prisoners, which one former Bureau of Prison officials called a country club. That country club is in Texas, close to Ghislaine Maxwell's family, and is an upgrade in every way she could hope from the more serious prison where she was doing hard time or harder time in Florida. Donald Trump's attempt at diversion will work with most of the news media today, but it won't work on this program. We will be joined tonight by Congressman Robert Garcia, the top ranking Democrat on the House Oversight Committee. That committee took testimony today from the person who was Donald Trump's worst Senate confirmed Attorney General in Donald Trump's first term. But William Barr was the Attorney General when Jeffrey Epstein was arrested on federal charges in New York. And William Barr was the Attorney General when Jeffrey Epstein was found dead in his federal jail cell awaiting trial. Donald Trump did everything he possibly could today to distract news attention away from one of his former attorneys general, who he now publicly hates. Testifying to the House Oversight Committee today in the Oval Office, Donald Trump spoke for the man who wasn't there, Vladimir Putin. Look, the war is going to end. When it ends, I can't tell you, but the war is going to end. And this gentleman wants it to end. And Vladimir Putin wants it to end. I think the whole world is tired of it and we're going to get it ended. Vladimir Putin has never said he wants it to end. Today, when Donald Trump said Vladimir Putin wants it to end, Vladimir Putin fired missiles into Ukraine, killing 14 people and injuring dozens more people, including two children in a residential building in Kharkiv. In a social media post, President Zelenskyy said this was a demonstrative and cynical Russian strike. They are aware that a meeting is taking place today in Washington that will address the end of the war. The Russian war machine continues to destroy lives despite everything. Putin will commit demonstrative killings to maintain pressure on Ukraine and Europe as well as to humiliate diplomatic efforts. That is precisely why we are seeking assistance to put an end to the killings. That is why reliable security guarantees are required. That is why Russia should not be rewarded for its participation in this war. The war must be ended and it is Moscow that must hear the word stop. And of course, the phrase humiliate diplomatic efforts really means humiliate Donald Trump. The whole world is tired of it. That is what you just heard Donald Trump say. The whole world was tired of World War II, but it did not end by trying to make a Trump like deal with Adolf Hitler who started World War II. President Roosevelt never said to Adolf Hitler, here's how much of France you can keep if you just stop the war that you started. But that is how Donald Trump thinks this war should end. We also need to discuss the possible exchanges of territory, taking into consideration the current line of contact. That means the war zone, the war lines that are pretty obvious, very sad actually to look at them and negotiating positions. The Fox White House correspondent, who got his job because his father is the Fox morning show host, functions as a Trump communications strategy partner and today served as a public Trump co conspirator in trying to reward Vladimir Putin by urging the surrender of Ukrainian territory to Putin.
- [06:33]
Congressman Ro Khanna
President Zelensky, are you prepared to keep sending Ukrainian troops to their deaths for.
- [06:38]
Lawrence O'Donnell
Another couple years, or are you, Are.
- [06:40]
Congressman Adam Smith
You going to agree to redraw the mask?
- [06:43]
Congressman Ro Khanna
Thank you for your question. So, first of all, you know, we live under each day attacks. You know that today been a lot of attacks and a lot of wounded people.
- [06:53]
Lawrence O'Donnell
And the child was dead small one, one year and a half.
- [06:59]
Congressman Ro Khanna
So we need to stop this war.
- [07:01]
Lawrence O'Donnell
To stop Russia, and we need support American and European partners.
- [07:06]
Congressman Ro Khanna
We will do our best for this. So, and I think we will show we are strong people and we supported.
- [07:14]
Lawrence O'Donnell
The idea of the United States of.
- [07:15]
Congressman Ro Khanna
Personally of President Trump to stop this war, to make a diplomatic way of finishing this war. And we are ready for trilateral, as President said, this is a good signal about trilateral. I think this is very good.
- [07:31]
Lawrence O'Donnell
You can study the White House transcripts of President Roosevelt's literally hundreds of press conferences in the Oval Office during World War II with the White House, and not one of them asked President Roosevelt how much territory, how much of France, how much of Europe should be given to Adolf Hitler. Not one American reporter sank to that level in the White House during World War II. But of course, today the Fox guy did. And it is lucky for the world that Fox did not exist during World War II. Before his meeting on Friday in Alaska with Vladimir Putin, which accomplished nothing other than distracting news media attention from Donald Trump's relationship with Jeffrey Epstein, Donald Trump said this. I want to see a cease fire rapidly. I don't know if it's going to.
- [08:25]
Congressman Ro Khanna
Be today, but I'm not going to.
- [08:26]
Lawrence O'Donnell
Be happy if it's not today. There was no cease for fire on Friday, but Donald Trump still said that he was happy after his meeting with Vladimir Putin, which was widely declared a failure, even in some Trump supporting media. And 72 hours after saying, I want to see a ceasefire rapidly, I don't know if it's going to be today, but I'm not going to be happy if it's not today. Donald Trump said this today. I don't think you need a ceasefire. I like the concept of a ceasefire for one reason, because you'd stop killing people immediately as opposed to in two weeks or one week or whatever it takes. But we can work a deal where we're working on a peace deal. While they're fighting, they have to fight. I wish they could stop. I'd like them to stop. But strategically that could be a disadvantage for one side or the other. They have to fight. There's Donald Trump saying they have to fight. Donald Trump, who has given up even trying to get a ceasefire after trying for less than a day to get a ceasefire, now says they have to fight. No, they don't. They were not fighting until Vladimir Putin invaded Ukraine, thereby winning Vladimir Putin the legal status of war criminal, a status that Vladimir Putin reestablishes every day. Vladimir Putin kills children deliberately. Vladimir Putin targets residential buildings knowing that children are sleeping there, that grandmothers are sleeping there, that non combatant people of all kinds are sleeping in those residential buildings. And Vladimir Putin wants them dead. And Donald Trump says he has to keep doing it. They have to fight. We have never had a more morally vacant President of the United States. They have to fight. Donald Trump says Vladimir Putin has to keep doing what he is doing. We have never had a more diplomatically dazed and confused President of the United States. Donald Trump has no idea that in diplomatic negotiations, when you're trying to get one side to stop doing something, you don't say that they have to keep doing it. When President Obama and Secretary of State John Kerry were negotiating a deal with Iran to stop Iran from enriching weapons grade uranium for nuclear weapons, John Kerry didn't say they have to keep doing it. President Obama didn't say they have to keep doing it. They didn't publicly negotiate against themselves. But the truth is Donald Trump doesn't care about Ukraine. Donald Trump has made that obvious for years now. Donald Trump doesn't care about the survival of Ukraine. And so he's not really trying to negotiate anything. So he's not negotiating against himself. He's not negotiating. He's just trying to get the cameras into his reality show White House for something other than questions about Jeffrey Epstein. German Chancellor Friedrich Mears said this. We all would like to see a ceasefire. The latest from the next meeting on. I can't imagine that the next meeting would take place without a ceasefire. So let's work on that and let's try to put pressure on Russia because the credibility of these efforts we are undertaking today are depending on at least a ceasefire from the beginning of the serious negotiations, from next step on. That's right. And that's another way of saying there is no credibility to Donald Trump's so called efforts. Donald Trump could have made an effort on Friday to press for a ceasefire, but he didn't. He simply gave up. And after all the criticism Donald Trump got from most of the American news media on Friday and through the weekend for giving up, Donald Trump today tweeted, I know exactly What I'm doing. The I know exactly what I'm doing tweet was a classic Trump case of what psychology calls projection, projecting onto other people what you fear deep down about yourself, what you feel deep down about yourself. Donald Trump said, I know exactly what I'm doing. And I don't need the advice of people who have been working on all of these conflicts for years and were never able to to do a thing to stop them. They are stupid people with no common sense, intelligence or understanding. When you're the stupid person in the room, you feel it, you know it. I was that person in many rooms at Harvard University. Then later as the chief of staff of the Senate Committee on Environment and Public Works, where every staff member of that committee knew more about environment and public works than I did. And then as chief of staff of the Senate Committee on Finance, where all of the committee's staff experts on taxation, international trade, Social Security, Medicaid, welfare, unemployment insurance and other programs all knew more about those programs than I did. And when I was in high level meetings and the Senate Majority Leader's office, or in the Speaker's office or in the Oval Office, I was always the person in the room with the least experience. And I knew it. I know what it feels like. And Donald Trump knows, quote, stupid people with no common sense, intelligence or understanding, end quote. From Donald Trump. Donald Trump knows that's who he is. And everyone in the room with him today knows that's who he is. Leading off our discussion tonight, Democratic Congressman Adam Smith of Seattle, Washington. He is the top ranking Democrat on the Armed Services Committee. Congressman Smith, thank you very much for joining us tonight. I just want to give you an opportunity to remark on everything we've seen from Friday through today.
- [14:56]
Congressman Adam Smith
Yeah, it's a really big disappointment and kind of embarrassing. I mean, the worst part, of course, was the summit with Putin today, as you noted, was not a disaster. You know, Trump didn't make it worse. But the missed opportunity with Putin to have, as you described, some moral clarity and to hold Putin to account, put some pressure on Putin. Here we are how many ever months into the Trump presidency and there's no pressure on Putin, which gives him just an excuse to keep prosecuting this war. Look, he wants all of Ukraine and he will keep pushing until it is clear that he cannot achieve that goal. And there is so much that President Trump could do to change Putin's mind about that, and he hasn't done it. He hasn't spoken clearly about our desire to provide security guarantees to Ukraine. And he hasn't clearly blamed Putin for the war and told him to stop it and push for a ceasefire. It was great that the European leadership was there today to show a united front and to make it more difficult for Trump to go off the rails. And I think they sort of kept it in there, but you still didn't have the moral clarity you needed to put the pressure on Putin to force him to the table and end this war.
- [16:04]
Lawrence O'Donnell
There was one of those hot mic moments that shows us a little bit more of what Donald Trump apparently is thinking. Let's listen to what he told President Macron. I think he wants to make a deal.
- [16:20]
MSNBC Announcer
I think he wants to make a deal for me.
- [16:22]
Lawrence O'Donnell
You understand that? As crazy as it is, just to be clear, you can hear that, Congressman, it's Donald Trump saying to President Macron about Putin, I think he wants to make a deal. I think he wants to make a deal for me. Do you understand that? As crazy as it sounds. So there's Donald Trump personalizing everything, thinking Vladimir Putin, Russian dictator, who was the Russian dictator before Donald Trump came along, has decided that the one person in the world he really wants to do a favor for regarding Ukraine is Donald Trump.
- [16:58]
Congressman Adam Smith
Yeah, narcissism on display at a very, very troubling time. Look, Putin wants all of Ukraine. And what he wants is he wants to play Donald Trump long enough so that he has the opportunity to take it. And anybody with any common sense whatsoever knows that. I mean, Trump ought to know that, but he doesn't seem to Putin could be forced to make a deal with Trump. And look, I think it's fine that Trump is talking to Putin. I think getting the US Directly involved and engaged in a conversation with Russia is fine, but it's not fine that that conversation is simply emboldening Vladimir Putin. And the ignorance that was on display in that hot mic moment of Trump's thinking on this, that it's all about him. I mean, that is biblical level narcissism right there. That the conflict between Russia and Ukraine and everything that goes into it, everything goes into the last three and a half years, the last 100 years, for that matter. But it all comes down to Trump. I mean, that narcissism. But it's also an ignorance that makes it far harder to get to where we need to be on this crucial issue.
- [18:04]
Lawrence O'Donnell
So Donald Trump told his supporters during the presidential campaign that he personally would end this war in the first 24 hours after taking the oath of office. We have a new poll showing, a Pew poll showing that 59% are not confident that Donald Trump can handle the war between Ukraine and Russia. 59%. So to get to 59% in this country, that has to include Trump voters who now know not only could he not do it in 24 hours, they don't think he can do it.
- [18:42]
Congressman Adam Smith
Yeah, look, and this is something that goes beyond the issue of Russia and Ukraine. I mean, look at inflation. You know, he was gonna fix that. He hasn't paid any attention to it whatsoever. Look, Trump is really good at just making up stuff and somehow getting people to believe him. You know, I'm gonna end the war on day one. And then, of course, afterwards, they come up with all kinds of excuses for why, oh, you have to take him, take him seriously. But not literally. No, that's just stupid. And a lot of people, I mean, this is like Trump promising that he was going to be better on ending the war in Gaza. Absolutely not the case. So we really have to hold him accountable for this on these issues. These are not just sort of empty, stupid promises. These are a cornerstone of how he convinces people to support him and keep supporting him. No, he can't solve the war on day one. No, he can't fix inflation. No, he's not bringing peace to the Middle East. No, Mexico didn't pay for the wall. All right? This is a huge problem to have a president who lies so regularly and blatantly about things that clearly he is not capable of doing. And I hope we begin to hold him accountable for that.
- [19:51]
Lawrence O'Donnell
Congressman Adam Smith, thank you very much for starting off our discussions tonight.
- [19:56]
Congressman Adam Smith
Thanks, Lawrence.
- [19:57]
Lawrence O'Donnell
And coming up, the worst Senate confirmed Attorney General of Donald Trump's first term. William Barr personally promised an investigation after a sex trafficker and child rapist. And Donald Trump's friend Jeffrey Epstein was discovered dead in a federal jail cell in 2019. While awaiting trial today on Capitol Hill, the House Oversight Committee took testimony from William Barr about the Jeffrey Epstein investigation. The top Democrat on the Oversight Committee, Congressman Robert Garcia, will join us next.
- [20:35]
MSNBC Announcer
MSNBC presents the chart topping original podcast, the Best People with Nicole Wallace. Each week, Nicole speaks with some of the people who inspire her the most. This week, she sits down with podcaster John Lovett.
- [20:49]
Congressman Robert Garcia
The more you can make that big group of pro democracy Americans feel like they're part of one big movement, the more powerful that gets and the more.
- [20:56]
MSNBC Announcer
Success we'll have the best people with Nicole Wallace. Listen now, wherever you get your podcasts, start your day with the MSNBC Daily Newsletter. Each morning, read sharp insights from the voices you trust.
- [21:11]
Lawrence O'Donnell
Catch.
- [21:12]
MSNBC Announcer
Standout moments from your favorite shows.
- [21:14]
Lawrence O'Donnell
The second Trump administration has gone to.
- [21:16]
Congressman Ro Khanna
Unprecedented lengths to radically transform America.
- [21:19]
MSNBC Announcer
Stay up to speed with our latest podcasts and documentaries and get fresh perspectives from experts shaping the news. It's everything you love about MSNBC delivered to your inbox. Sign up now@msnbc.com.
- [21:43]
Lawrence O'Donnell
Today House Oversight Committee Chairman James Comer said in a statement that Donald Trump's Department of Justice will begin turning over the Epstein files this Friday. The statement says officials with the Department of Justice have informed us that the department will begin to provide Epstein related records to the Oversight Committee this week. On Friday, there are many records in the Department of Justice's custody and it will take the department time to produce all the records and ensure the identification of victims and any child sexual abuse material are redacted. That announcement came after the House Oversight Committee questioned Donald Trump's former Attorney General William Barr for four hours in a closed door hearing about the federal criminal investigation and prosecution of Donald Trump's friend Jeffrey Epstein for sex trafficking and raping children. William Barr was the United States attorney general in 2019 when Jeffrey Epstein was found dead in a federal jail cell while awaiting trial in New York. William Barr's own senior staff were among the first to rush to that jail in Manhattan after Epstein's death and William Barr pledged then that he would personal lead the investigation of Jeffrey Epstein's death. Let me assure you that this case will continue on against anyone who was complicit with Epstein. Any co conspirators should not rest easy. The victims deserve justice and they will get it. Today, William Barr became The first of 10 Republican and Democratic officials to answer a subpoena from the Oversight Committee. After three hours of questioning, William Barr Chairman Comer said this Attorney General Barr testified in there was that he never had conversations with President Trump pertaining to a client list. He didn't know anything about a client list. He said that he had never seen anything that would implicate President Trump in any of this. Donald Trump's current Attorney General, Pam Bondi, said this in February on Fox 1, asked whether the Justice Department would release specifically the Epstein client list. It's sitting on my desk right now to review. That's been a directive by President Trump. I'm reviewing that. The top ranking Democrat on the House Oversight Committee, Congressman Robert Garcia, said this in a statement today. Let's be clear. While it's important to depose former Attorney General Barr, who ran the Department of Justice when Jeffrey Epstein died, the most critical thing the Oversight Committee needs for its investigation is the full, complete and unredacted Epstein files, including any client list. Joining us now is Democratic Congressman Robert Garcia of California. He is the top ranking Democrat on the House Oversight Committee. Congressman, thank you very much for joining us tonight. Thank you. What can you tell us about Attorney General Barr's testimony today?
- [25:07]
Congressman Robert Garcia
Look, I think it was important to have, of course, Attorney General Barr there. We have a number, as you know, of witnesses coming before us over the next few weeks. And all of the testimony is going to be important. It's very serious work. But what is at the center of all of this and for us to actually be able to corroborate some of the testimony and put this whole case together and get justice for the victims, is to get the full, complete Epstein list files and any documents that Pam Bondi and Department of justice currently have in their possession. We were supposed to get all of the files tomorrow. That's when the subpoena was very clear. Was that date, was that tomorrow date? Now we understand it's going to happen on Friday, a few days later. And now we also understand it's going to happen in pieces or chunks. The DOJ is going to release. And what I want people to know and understand is this one is the Department of Justice must release under the subpoena the entire trove of files, documents, videos, whatever is in their possession, number one. And number two, let's be really clear. There is a cover up happening right now at the Donald Trump White House and the Department of Justice. And the way they choose to release these documents in these batches is going to try to serve their narrative. And we've got to stay focused on the truth, get all the information out there and absolutely get our hands on any client list and ensure that any names of anyone responsible in harming young girls, children, women, will and must be held accountable.
- [26:42]
Lawrence O'Donnell
It seems unlikely that the Attorney General would be aware of all of the material in any criminal investigative file while he's serving as Attorney General that's being handled in this particular case, the Epstein case, the U.S. attorney in Manhattan at the time. There are several layers between the Attorney General and the US Attorney in Manhattan. And so what William Barr knows or doesn't know about what's in the files is not going to be likely to be much of a guide to what actually is in those files.
- [27:18]
Congressman Robert Garcia
That's exactly right. Look, I think obviously Bill Bart said some interesting things today. It's information that's, I think, important. But at the end of the day, he's not someone that was intimate, involved A new enormous amount was actually in the files. He made some assumptions, but what's really critical is the actual documents. And I think what we are ready for is to receive those documents. And we also have many questions for Attorney General Pam Bondi. The person we really want to speak to, that we're actually talking to Republicans about is Alex Acosta. If anyone in this entire world knows more about the Jeffrey Epstein case than what happened, it's Mr. Acosta. He should sit in front of the Oversight Committee, Democrats and Republicans, and answer questions about why Jeffrey Epstein received a sweetheart deal and why there has been real, really no justice for these actual victims. That is who we should be centering this entire case around is the people that have been impacted and the violence that's happened against them. And Alex Acosta right now has incredibly important information, knows the facts, knows how this whole deal for Jeffrey Epstein was actually put together. And that's the person we want to see in front of the Oversight Committee.
- [28:31]
Lawrence O'Donnell
Has Chairman Comer explained why Alex Acosta has not been subpoenaed?
- [28:37]
Congressman Robert Garcia
He is not, but he. We are in communication with his office, with him directly. But I've also spoken with other Republicans. Look, there are. Representative Luna, for example, a colleague of ours on the committee on the Republican side has been very clear. She wants to hear from Alice Acosta. Other Republicans want to as well. So Democrats already forced the vote. Remember, none of these files would even be coming to the public or the committee had Democrats actually not forced Republicans to release the files in a vote where we got bipartisan support. So this is only happening because we forced it. We are planning to do the same thing. Republicans refuse to bring Alex Acosta in front of this committee that we're going to need to force that vote. How is the one person that put together this deal for Jeffrey Epstein that knows the case inside and backwards, that knows every single piece of those documents that oversaw much of the case, is not testifying in front of us. That, to me, is something that's very concerning, first of all, and should create for us all this concern across the country.
- [29:39]
Lawrence O'Donnell
What will you be looking for on Friday when you see the first of the Epstein files?
- [29:45]
Congressman Robert Garcia
Well, number one is I want to ensure that the redactions protect, first and foremost, the victims. That's going to be very important. And second is that we start receiving information that is not redacted when it comes to the client list, others that have been involved, those that have caused harm. And I think what we're expecting from the DOJ is full unredactive files where we agree is that those that have been harmed, as in the young women and girls, those folks, should be protected. But beyond that, we want to ensure that the first batch of documents are substantial, what we expect. And we'd like to see the whole case, of course, that's our biggest expectation. Let's get the files. Let's get the client list. Let's get the information.
- [30:28]
Lawrence O'Donnell
Congressman Robert Garcia, thank you very much for joining us tonight. And coming up, more on today's Jeffrey Epstein news with the Oversight and with Oversight Committee member Congressman Ro Khanna. Will the Oversight Committee ever get the complete Epstein file? That's next.
- [30:52]
MSNBC Announcer
Saturday, October 11th. From New York City, it's MSNBC Live 25. Join your favorite MSNBC hosts, Rachel Maddow, Joe Scarborough, Mika Brzezinski, Nicole Wallace, Ari Melber, Alicia Menendez, Simone Sanders Townsend, Michael Steele, Chris Haynes, jen Psaki, Lawrence O', Donnell, Stephanie Rule and more. Visit msnbc.comlive25 to buy your tickets today.
- [31:25]
Lawrence O'Donnell
Here's more of what House Oversight Committee Chairman James Comer said today about the release of the Epstein files beginning on Friday of this week. One thing that we picked up in here, there are a lot of documents. There have to be a lot of documents. So I'm under the impression that they're gathering all these documents and that's what the subpoena called for. And I think the administration knows this is what Congress wants, Republicans and Democrats, and I think President Trump has said clearly he wants to, you know, release all the documents. So we're going to get the documents. Joining us now is Democratic Congressman Ro Khanna of California. He's a member of the House Oversight Committee and the House Armed Services Committee. Congressman, thank you very much for joining us tonight. This sounds like a breakthrough for your committee today, not only taking testimony from former Attorney General William Barr, but now a promise from the Justice Department for a delayed compliance with your subpoena beginning Friday of the Epstein files.
- [32:34]
Congressman Ro Khanna
Lawrence, it is a breakthrough. Here is the central fact. We now know there are a lot of documents. You have a Republican Chair Comer saying there are a lot of documents. There is no excuse now for those documents not to be released to the committee and to the American public. Now the Justice Department is slow walking this. They are now promising to get some documents, and they are not the most critical documents. And so what we need to do when we get back to session is to have Thomas Massie and my bill pass the House of Representatives and force the full release. And if Chairman Comer wants all the files released he should be signing that discharge petition. We're going to have two, all 212 Democrats sign it, and we'll see which Republicans actually are going to back up with action. Their request for the full demand of the release of the documents.
- [33:34]
Lawrence O'Donnell
Will there ever be a way of knowing, even if your bill passes, that this Justice Department, the Trump Justice Department, has actually handed over the entire entirety of the Epstein files?
- [33:51]
Congressman Ro Khanna
Not with certainty, though there are enough people in the Justice Department who have probably handled these files and people who are career prosecutors that it will be a risk for false or incomplete disclosures. There is always the possibility of a whistleblower of a career prosecutor coming in saying this was not a full disclosure. They're not releasing things that we have seen. And so the one good news here is that it's not just political appointees like Pam Bondi who have seen this. There are a lot of career prosecutors who have seen this. And that gives us some ability to have a check for full transparency.
- [34:36]
Lawrence O'Donnell
On Friday, when you get your first look at the Epstein files, what will you be looking for?
- [34:43]
Congressman Ro Khanna
I'll be looking for whether this is actually a good faith effort at release. Is it? Are they just releasing things that are already public? You remember Pam Bondi, when she first released the Epstein documents, basically released things that already were in the public domain and that actually increased the anger, or are they releasing things that we have not seen and are they releasing things that the victims want? One other thing that we have talked about, and it actually was facilitated, Lawrence, by your reporting and your show is on September 3rd, we are for the first time having Bradley Edwards and over a dozen victims of the Epstein saga and abuse come to the Capitol and tell their stories and to center the victims. And that is something that we really need to do.
- [35:35]
Lawrence O'Donnell
Yeah. Bradley Edwards is the attorney for those victims and many others who appeared on this program. And as you go forward, Congressman, when you're looking at redactions in the Epstein files, as there surely will be, which redactions would be acceptable to you? What category of redaction and what kind of redactions would not be acceptable to you?
- [36:03]
Congressman Ro Khanna
Certainly any redaction that is protecting the victim's identity or protecting the victim's privacy would be appropriate. Now, ordinarily, they should be contacting the victim's lawyers to work on this and to see what appropriate redactions are. Bradley Edwards has not been contacted. The victims have been sidelined through this process for years about anything that was protecting their identity. Their privacy is appropriate. Where I would have concerns is if there are redactions particular on financial transactions, if they are redactions on the interviews of famous individuals who may have been involved in these parties and may have been involved in some of the abuse. And so we have to look at who they're trying to protect with the redactions.
- [36:56]
Lawrence O'Donnell
We have to fit in a commercial break here. If you could please stay with us. Congressman. I want to hear about your speaking around the country in areas where Republican members of Congress are refusing to to face their voters. We'll be right back with Congressman Ro Khanna. The price of coffee is up and going up thanks to Donald Trump's coffee tax. Donald Trump's coffee tariff, which is actually a sales tax on us, is costing every coffee drinker in America. With coffee prices going up 15%. Coffee is literally the textbook economics example of why international trade is necessary and helpful and important. No country in the world produces everything that it consumes, especially coffee. Most countries in the world cannot grow coffee or tea. And so the world imports coffee from a relatively small number of coffee producing countries. Every country in the world runs a trade deficit on coffee except the coffee producing countries. The very few of them producing trade deficits are not bad things. They are simply the outcome of one country buying more of a particular product from another country than it sells to that country. Our next guest, Congressman Ro Khanna, said this on social media. I will be introducing bipartisan legislation to repeal tariffs on coffee. We produce less than 1% and these tariffs on Brazil, Vietnam, Indonesia and Colombia are a 15 to 20% tax on Americans at the start of their day. Anyone who has a coffee cup always in hand hates this tax. Carson Khanna is meeting with voters where Republicans refuse to meet with them. He held a benefits over billionaires town hall last night in Reno, Nevada and held another meeting tonight at a Teamsters union hall in Georgia. Back with us is Congressman Ro Khanna. Congressman, tell us what you're hearing out there that that Republican members of the House are not hearing because they are refusing to hear from their constituents.
- [39:25]
Congressman Ro Khanna
Well, I was in Representative Amadeh's district in rural Nevada. 600 people showed up for a Californian doing a town hall because he's refusing to do a town hall. And here's what they're upset about. They're upset that the Republican bill is giving huge tax breaks to billionaires in Silicon Valley in my district. And while doing that, they're taking away Medicaid and health care from veterans and they're taking away food assistance from veterans and working class Americans in Amadeus District, there are a lot of veterans and some people told me that 47% of veterans are on food assistance. They risk losing that food assistance. One of the points I made is the guy who represents more billionaires than any person in the world in Silicon Valley is saying tax them more. I don't understand how this is populism for Donald Trump. I don't understand what in the world he achieves by giving Silicon Valley more tax breaks. When he promised to help veterans and build manufacturing in the middle of the country and they see through it, now he's losing support.
- [40:34]
Lawrence O'Donnell
I have to say, your bill on repealing the coffee tax is possibly the most perfectly targeted way of identifying what the Trump tariffs actually do.
- [40:48]
Congressman Ro Khanna
You know, Lawrence, I appreciated your explaining that even Richard Nixon, when he had tariffs exempted coffee. I mean, a coffee tax is not going to create jobs in Johnstown, Pennsylvania or Ohio or Michigan or any part of America. We only produce 1%. And that's why I'm working with Representative Don Bacon to introduce a bill to repeal the coffee tax. And this is actually something that many Americans are upset about. Look, we have a history in this country. We started the revolution fighting a irrational tariff against tea. I don't think it's wise to tax Americans coffee. And it just shows the total irrationality of these tariffs. It's like, why would you tariff something which isn't going to create jobs here and simply is going to raise the price of coffee for Americans when they start their day?
- [41:40]
Lawrence O'Donnell
Yeah, the textbook case for tariffs, which is a rare case, was actually Harley Davidson when they were the only motorcycle manufacturer left in the United States. It was during the Reagan administration and they got a five year tariff on foreign motorcycles from Japan and from Germany. And Harley Davidson themselves as a company recovered with the protection of that tariff. They were able to raise money, raise their prices a bit. They were able to innovate on how they built their motorcycles. And Harley actually asked for the tariff to be removed after four years. And Harley is now a tremendously thriving business. But that's because we were trying to preserve a product that was made in the United States. We don't have a coffee industry, we don't have coffee farmers to support by blocking coffee or raising the price of coffee from Colombia.
- [42:36]
Congressman Ro Khanna
We don't. And look, the person who had a thoughtful approach to tariffs was President Biden. He said, in industries like steel or like electric vehicles, where there has been unfair dumping, where there has been. Where there have been other countries who haven't played by the rules, we need to have strategic tariffs combined, by the way, with federal investment, so we can build industry and have the jobs here, the jobs and reindustrialization across the country. Coffee, there is none of that. And what you're actually doing is hurting Americans in terms of the price, and then you're hurting the economies of Brazil, of Colombia, of other nations. That actually leads to the very migrant crisis that this administration is trying to solve. So it is just a totally lack of thought out policy. And the good news is there are Republicans like Don Bacon who see that, and they're both Republicans, Democrats and Independents who say, I don't more tax on on coffee. I think that this case symbolizes the irrationality of Donald Trump's economic policy.
- [43:41]
Lawrence O'Donnell
Carson. Ro Khanna, thank you very much for joining us tonight.
- [43:45]
Congressman Ro Khanna
Thank you, Lawrence.
- [43:48]
Lawrence O'Donnell
Congressman Ro Khanna gets tonight's last word.