← The Last Word with Lawrence O’Donnell
The Last Word with Lawrence O’Donnell
Lawrence: Rep. Raskin wants to know if Trump's DOJ committed crimes speaking to Ghislaine Maxwell
00:42:00
Tonight on The Last Word: Democrats on the House Judiciary Committee question the Justice Department and the Federal Bureau of Prisons on Ghislaine Maxwell’s transfer. Also, Donald Trump refers to Saint Petersburg by its Soviet-era name. And The New Yorker reports the Trump family has made an estimated $3.4 billion off his presidency so far. Rep. Jamie Raskin, Amb. Wendy Sherman, and David Kirkpatrick join Lawrence O’Donnell.
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- [00:00]
Rachel Maddow
Saturday, October 11th from New York City, it's MSNBC Live 25. Join your favorite MSNBC hosts, Rachel Maddow, Joe Scarborough, Mika Brzezinski, Nicole Wallace, Ari Melber, Alicia Menendez, Simone Sanders Townsend, Michael Steele, Chris Haynes, jen Psaki, Lawrence O', Donnell, Stephanie Ruhl and more. Visit msnbc.comlive25 to buy your tickets today. Subscribe to MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts for early access, ad free listening and bonus content to all of MSNBC's original podcasts, including the chart topping series the Best People with Nicole Wallace, why Is this Happening? Main justice and more. Plus new episodes of all your favorite MSNBC shows ad free and ad free listening to all of Rachel Maddow's original series, Ultra Bagman and Deja News. Subscribe to MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts.
- [01:01]
Lawrence O'Donnell
The Last Word with Lawrence o' Donnell starts right now. Hey Lawrence.
- [01:05]
Jen Psaki
Hey, Jen. You know, I hate politics too, but.
- [01:09]
Lawrence O'Donnell
No you don't.
- [01:09]
Jen Psaki
Someone's gotta do it. I do, but someone's gotta do it. And you know, the thing I hate the most about politics is the Trump of politics. That has really ruined politics.
- [01:21]
Lawrence O'Donnell
Yeah, I agree with that. I love politics, but Trump has really been a damper on politics. I, I know you love policy making more than politics. That's fair, right? I love policymaking too. That's also not happening right now.
- [01:36]
Jen Psaki
Back when you could do it, back when there was kind of understanding even among enough Republicans so that you had a governing majority in places like the Senate that could actually do some reasonable things. And of course you'd always want to do more, but with the inhibitions that existed in the dynamics of the party, you could get what you could get. And now, you know, Jen, I feel like the jobs that I had certainly working in the Senate don't really exist. I mean, the job title exists, but no one does the work that we used to do. They don't legislate, they don't govern the way both parties used to before Trumpism took over the whole system of Republican politics.
- [02:24]
Lawrence O'Donnell
That's true. I mean, I am old enough to remember working with Republican members on legislation at times. There were times where they certainly made us really angry. In the Obama White House or the Biden White House. Well, the Biden White House was the under the Trump area. But you could still kind of get things done or at least talk and have a conversation, or at least find points of common ground. It's really hard to do because none of it is on the level these days. As my mother would say.
- [02:53]
Jen Psaki
Well, we must proceed.
- [02:56]
Lawrence O'Donnell
We must.
- [02:58]
Jen Psaki
Thanks, Jen.
- [03:00]
Lawrence O'Donnell
Thanks, Lawrence.
- [03:01]
Jen Psaki
Thank you. Well, the verdict in the court of public opinion is in and it is not good for Donald Trump. 59%, quote, disapprove of the way Donald Trump is handling investigations into Jeffrey Epstein. Just 20% approve. Donald Trump is the first and only president in American history who had a long term friendship with a man who raped children regularly, almost every day while that man was Donald Trump's closest friend. According to that man. That's what Jeffrey Epstein, the child rapist and sex trafficker, told Michael Wolff in a tape recorded interview. Quote, I was Donald's closest friend for 10 years. Everything Donald Trump does now is an attempt to get 59% of Americans to look the other way. Donald Trump was trying to get 59% of Americans to stop thinking about his friendship with Jeffrey Epstein and what Donald Trump might be trying to hide in the Epstein files that are in possession of Donald Trump's Attorney General, who actually went to the Oval Office with Donald Trump's former criminal defense lawyer, who is now the Deputy Attorney General, to personally tell Donald Trump exactly how many times his name appears in the Epstein files and what the Epstein files actually say about Donald Trump. The Epstein files are the full Justice Department investigative file on Jeffrey Epstein and his co conspirator Ghislaine Maxwell. And during the presidential campaign, Donald Trump told his followers that he would make the Epstein files public. Donald Trump's current FBI director publicly insisted before he became FDI FBI director that the Epstein files must be made public completely, every word of it. Donald Trump's Attorney General promised to make the Epstein files public while she was Attorney General, saying on TV that she had the Epstein files right there on her desk and was ready to make them public. She said that she had Jeffrey Epstein's client list on her desk and was ready to make that list public. And then she issued an unsigned public statement saying there is no client list and not one word of the Epstein files will ever be made public by Donald Trump's Justice Department. And so it's not surprising tonight that 71% of Americans think Donald Trump knew some or a lot about the sex crimes committed by Jeffrey Epstein against children before, before the investigations of Jeffrey Epstein's criminal conduct even began. Only 8% of Americans think Donald Trump knew nothing about the sex crimes Jeffrey Epstein was committing against children. 56% of Republicans think Donald Trump knew some or a lot about the sex crimes committed by Jeffrey Epstein. Think about how important this story is to Donald Trump's presidency. Donald Trump knows how Important it is. And he knows how important it is to Donald Trump's political power and his ability to retain political power. Republicans in Congress have never been afraid of Donald Trump. They know he's a clown who knows nothing. They know he's a child prone to uncontrollable temper tantrums. They know he doesn't belong in the White House. They know he doesn't belong anywhere in government. They have never been afraid of Donald Trump. But Republican politicians have been very afraid since Donald Trump won the Republican nomination for president in 2016. That is when every Republican politician began living in abject fear of not Donald Trump, but Trump voters. Donald Trump is nothing without Trump voters. Without Trump voters, Donald Trump would have been the first candidate to drop out of the 2016 presidential campaign. Donald Trump's first presidential campaign began so badly that the billionaire owner, operator of the Fox propaganda channel, Rupert Murdoch, publicly urged Donald Trump to drop out of the race and stop embarrassing his family. Rupert Murdoch didn't know. None of us knew that the clownish candidacy of Donald Trump was going to win over Republican voters. It is Donald Trump's power over Republican voters that gives him power. Donald Trump's power is completely dependent on support from Republican voters. And nothing, nothing has separated Donald Trump from his voters more than the man who has risen from the dead to remind us I was Donald's closest friend for 10 years. Jeffrey Epstein. The sex crimes of Jeffrey Epstein. The children raped by Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell have separated 56% of Republicans from Donald Trump who think Donald Trump knew some or a lot about the sex crimes committed by Jeffrey Epstein. Those voters will never see Donald Trump's name on a ballot again. And so they will never be tested in a voting booth looking at Donald Trump's name versus an opposing candidate. But Republicans in the House and the Senate have always been devoted to Donald Trump because they believe that their voters could never be separated from Donald Trump. They believed their voters would always vote for Donald Trump. But tonight, Republicans in Congress, Republicans everywhere, know that 56% of Republicans think that Donald Trump knew some or a lot about the sex crimes committed by Jeffrey Epstein. And the reason that 56% of Republicans think that is because the American news media has refused to turn away from Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell and their friend, Donald Trump. This program has refused to turn away from the crimes Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell committed against children while they were partying with Donald Trump, while they were friends with Donald Trump, while Jeffrey Epstein was saying, I was Donald's closest friend for 10 years. The Wall Street Journal reported on a birthday book presented to Jeffrey Epstein on his 50th birthday with letters from his friends collected by Ghislaine Maxwell, including a letter bearing Donald Trump's name. And Donald Trump was so terrified of that news report that he threatened Rupert Murdoch, the owner of the Wall Street Journal, that he would sue Rupert Murdoch and sue the Wall Street Journal if they published that report. And Rupert Murdoch looked at the evidence that his reporters had and he published that story. And Donald Trump then filed his phony lawsuit against Rupert Murdoch, which Donald Trump will never pursue, because that lawsuit enables Rupert Murdoch to put Donald Trump under oath in a deposition and force Donald Trump to answer questions under oath about whether he knew some or a lot about these sex crimes committed by Jeffrey Epstein against children. 71% of Americans think Donald Trump knew some or a lot about the sex crimes committed by Jeffrey Epstein against children before the investigations into Jeffrey Epstein even began. We've had 45 presidents of the United States and only one, only one of them was friends with a rapist of children who claimed to be that president's best friend for 10 years. And so Donald Trump is trying a new distraction game this week, which he will continue to play in cities around the country. And that is sending in completely ineffectual small numbers, just a couple of hundred at any one time on the streets of National Guard troops into Washington, D.C. where they are, as we predicted, here doing absolutely nothing. The New York Times was there last night at the Washington Monument at sunset, one of the tourist meccas of Washington, D.C. where all the parents and children in short pants feel safe. The Times reports about a dozen members of the National Guard appeared in five military vehicles near the Washington Monument as the sun set. A stark juxtaposition to a peaceful evening scene of people jogging by with headphones and walking their dogs, with troops snapping photos of themselves with visitors. They left roughly two hours after they arrived. The National Guard troops are all there because of Jeffrey Epstein, Ghislaine Maxwell and Donald Trump's friendship. Here is what Congressman Jamie Raskin, our first guest tonight, posted on social media.
- [12:54]
Jamie Raskin
Hey, everybody. The whole country knows what a real emergency looks like in Washington, D.C. that's January 6, 2021, when thousands of mob insurrectionists and violent cop beating criminals attacked Congress at the instigation of Donald Trump and endangered the Vice President and injured more than 140 officers there. Donald Trump did nothing on that day. He didn't send out the National Guard, but that was a real emergency and he sat on his hands. What's going on in D.C. today is the lowest crime in 30 years. Donald Trump's talking about the graffiti and the crime out of control without looking at all at the actual statistics. In any event, if he cared about public safety in D.C. he would release the $1 billion he's confiscated and impounded and tell the Republicans to release that money to the people of D.C. who wanna spend it on public safety and law enforcement and public schools and so on. This isn't an emergency. This is just a public relations crisis because the President is hiding the Epstein despite the fact that he campaigned on releasing it. So release the Epstein file and let the people in Washington, D.C. govern themselves.
- [14:11]
Jen Psaki
Carson Raskin has sent a letter co signed by Democratic members of the House Judiciary Committee to Donald Trump's Attorney General and to Donald Trump's Director of the Federal Bureau of Prisons about their decision to transfer Donald Trump's old friend Ghislaine Maxwell to what has been called one of the best jails in America to serve time. Carson Raskin's letter suggests that the prison transfer was done, quote, to shield the President. Congressman Raskin's letter says, two weeks ago, you inexplicably transferred Ghislaine Maxwell, Jeffrey Epstein's co conspirator, from a Federal correctional institution to a far preferable and relatively luxurious minimum security prison camp in Texas, just three years into her 20 year sentence for sexually exploiting and abusing minor girls as young as 14. The transfer follows Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche's private interviews of Ms. Maxwell, arranged after a firestorm of media attention about the Department of Justice's refusal to release the full Epstein files as originally demanded by President Donald Trump. These actions raise substantial concerns that the administration may now be attempting to tamper with a crucial witness, conceal President Trump's relationship with convicted sex offenders, and coax Ms. Maxwell into providing false or misleading testimony in order to protect the President. The Trump administration has engaged in a series of actions that create the strong appearance that it is attempting to cover up the full extent of the relationship between President Trump and Mr. Epstein. 71% of Americans think Donald Trump knew some or a lot about the sex crimes committed by Jeffrey Epstein against children before the investigations into Jeffrey Epstein even began. Carson Raskin's letter continues. During President Trump's first administration, Federal prosecutors charged Ms. Maxwell with perjury, stating her willingness to brazenly lie under oath about her conduct strongly suggests her true motive has been and remains to avoid being held accountable for her crimes. The letter says this about Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanch, whose last job was Donald Trump's personal criminal defense lawyer. Quote, his actions raise staggering concerns about political conflicts of interest, witness tampering and suborning of false testimony. And so has come to this in America. The top Democrat on the House Judiciary Committee, well versed in the law, a former law professor himself, suggests the possibility that Donald Trump's deputy Attorney general, his former criminal defense lawyer, may have committed the federal crimes of, quote, witness tampering and suborning of false testimony. Congressman Raskin's letter says less than a week after Mr. Blanche's meeting with Ms. Maxwell, Bureau of Prisons transferred her from a federal correctional institution in Tallahassee, Florida to an all woman minimum security prison camp in Bryan, Texas, which is listed as one of the best jails in America to serve time. The women incarcerated there, a population which includes a number of white collar and celebrity inmates, reportedly enjoy a ton of freedom to interact with one another and have access to educational and social programs unavailable at higher security federal correctional institutions like the one Ms. Maxwell was committed to in Tallahassee. The transfer of Ms. Maxwell to a lower security and more comfortable facility heightens the appearance that the Trump administration is seeking to coax favorable testimony or strategic silence from Ms. Maxwell. The letter points out there is a months long wait list for openings at the camp where Ghislaine Maxwell now resides. Quote, Ms. Maxwell, however, appears to have short circuited the entire review process and jumped the queue, receiving a place in federal prison Camp Bryan within a matter of days. Carson Raskin's letter quotes one of Ghislaine Maxwell's and Jeffrey Epstein's victims, Virginia Giuffre, saying that Ghislaine Maxwell, quote, is a monster. She's worse than Epstein. She did things even worse than Epstein did. She was vicious. She was evil. On the last page of his letter, Congressman Raskin writes, the committee must have access to all documents and information regarding these actions to assess whether the Department of Justice officials and the President have abused prosecutorial and law enforcement resources to shield the President and mislead the public. Leading off our discussion tonight, Congressman Jamie Raskin of Maryland. He is the top Democrat on the House Judiciary Committee. Congressman Raskin, thank you very much for joining us tonight. The specificity of what you're requesting in this letter is quite striking, especially, especially to us who don't, those of us who don't really know the processes involved in a transfer by the Bureau of Prisons. What are you hoping? What are the most important elements of documentation they could provide for that well.
- [20:05]
Jamie Raskin
There'S some seriously baffling dimensions to this transfer, Lawrence, as you quoted. It's very difficult to get into that minimum security prison camp, as they call it. It's one of the most desirable facilities you can serve time in. It is generally categorically off limits to sex offenders because there's access to the community. So that's one huge red flag there. But even had she been eligible to get into this facility, it is a multi leveled review process for someone who petition for transfer from one facility to another. And you have to demonstrate some special need, some change in circumstances, some factual or legal justification for doing it. And even if you make it all the way through this multi layered process, you usually have to wait months in order to do it. And yet she was switched over in a matter of days. It was practically instantaneous. And of course, that then speaks to the irregularity of the process leading up to it. Remember that this was preceded by the sacking of Maureen Comey, who was one of the senior prosecutors leading that prosecution, and they simply fired her. And then that's when Todd Blanche decided to take matters into his own hands. Ten months before, he had been Donald Trump's personal criminal defense lawyer now at the doj. And they get rid of all of the line prosecutors for these purposes. They don't bring any of the actual lawyers in the case with him. He goes there and then spends many hours with Ms. Maxwell and pronounces himself satisfied with her answers. And then what do you know? Suddenly she gets this sweetheart transfer to a minimum security prison camp. So we want to know what exactly transpired between the two of them. We want a transcript of the conversation, we want a tape of the conversation. We want to know what other federal officials were involved in this set of decisions leading, leading up to her being transferred, before she was prepared to go and testify before the House Oversight Committee.
- [22:25]
Jen Psaki
The Congressman, you're asking for every bit of documentation, email, text message, any form of communication that they have related to the prison transfer. What if the response is that there are none, that they. That this was done by phone calls and there's absolutely no email or document for you to look at?
- [22:51]
Jamie Raskin
Well, that would be an extremely irregular interview by the Department of Justice if it were not actually taped and transcribed. We would want to know about that. And we would want to know what is the basis for this absolutely extraordinary treatment of a federal prisoner and what is the justification for it, and why did they break from the existing rules at the Bureau of Prison and at the Department of Justice governing such A transfer.
- [23:20]
Jen Psaki
To the Todd Blanche issue. You used the phrase in this letter from the Democrats and yourself on the House Judiciary Committee that many of us have been wondering about since we first heard about the meeting because it's impossible. I mean, literally, no one has come up with a theory of Todd Blanche's meeting with Ghislaine Maxwell that makes any legal sense. And so the phrase suborning perjury and witness tampering, those phrases are what come to mind when you look at the dynamics of something like you've put that in writing here. What could Todd Blanche tell you? What could he possibly tell you to make you accept the idea that he had legitimate purposes there?
- [24:14]
Jamie Raskin
Well, if he came to appear before the Judiciary Committee, which he should, we would ask him the question, why did he pronounce himself satisfied with all of her answers? Remember, this was a woman who refused to testify at her own trial. Now suddenly she's apparently spilling her guts to Donald Trump's former criminal defense lawyer who's now stationed at the Department of Justice. And he likes what he hears. What is it he heard, what satisfied him? And on what basis does he think she's telling the truth? So, look, I think it seems pretty clear to the vast majority of Americans, as you're pointing out this evening, Lawrence, that Donald Trump's got one major interest in this whole affair at this point, which is burying any information that reveals the connection between him and Jeffrey Epstein. We know that they had more than 1,000 FBI agents working 24 hour shifts looking for mentions of Donald Trump's name in the Epstein files and looking for photographs of him, video snippets of him, whatever it might be. And then when that process was completed, that's when Donald Trump quickly moved to sweep the whole thing under the rug, saying there's nothing to see here. And then he performed a 180 degree U turn, saying not only, you know, did he was he no longer asking for release of the complete Epstein files. He would never allow them to be released. And there was nothing in there. And suddenly he was claiming that innocent people would be injured, you because of their release.
- [25:51]
Jen Psaki
Congressman Jamie Raskin, thank you very much for starting off our discussions tonight.
- [25:55]
Jamie Raskin
You bet. Thank you, Lawrence.
- [25:57]
Jen Psaki
Thank you. And coming up, tonight's episode of what would happen if Joe Biden said this? And once again, we will see. No one humiliates Donald Trump better than Donald Trump. That's next.
- [26:16]
Rachel Maddow
Saturday, October 11th. From New York City, it's MSNBC Live 25. Join your favorite MSNBC hosts, Rachel Maddow. Joe Scarborough, Mika Brzezinski, Nicole Wallace, Ari Melber, Alicia Menendez, Simone Sanders Townsend, Michael Steele, Chris Haynes, Jen Psaki, Lawrence o', Donnell, Stephanie Ruhle and more. Visit MSN to buy your tickets today. Start your day with the MSNBC Daily Newsletter, sharp insights from voices you trust, standout moments from your favorite shows, and fresh perspectives from experts shaping the news. Sign up now@msnbc.com.
- [27:05]
Jen Psaki
Time for tonight's episode of what would happen if Joe Biden said this? You know, I'm going to see Putin. I'm going to Russia on Friday. He's going to Anchorage, Alaska on Friday. The geography challenged 79 year old former resident of New York City, where the streets are numbered so he could never get lost and think he was in New Jersey, also said this we're going to Russia. That's going to be a big deal. What happens, happens. I'll let you know what happens. You'll be the first to know. Donald Trump has dramatically cut research funding for Alzheimer's and dementia just at the moment when he personally needs that research speeded up. To say Donald Trump is the most childish president of the United States is correct, of course, but it's worth noting that we have never had another childish president of the United States. Donald Trump's childishness is one of the reasons no one humiliates Donald Trump better than Donald Trump. And he did that again today at 7:42am when he tweeted, if I got Moscow and Leningrad free as part of the deal with Russia, the fake news would say that I made a bad deal. When Donald Trump was in high school and in college, St. Petersburg was called Leningrad after the Russian murderous dictator Vladimir Lenin. But the city, which is 322 years old, was only called Leningrad for 67 years. When Donald Trump Jr. Was in high school and in college, the city was called St. Petersburg and has been called St. Petersburg for the last 34 years. Which puts Donald Trump on this point 35 years behind the times. But now consider the unaddressable childishness of Donald Trump asking us to imagine a hypothetical in which Vladimir Putin somehow gives Donald Trump 2 Russian cities, Moscow and St. Petersburg, as part of some kind of deal that is supposed to be about ending Vladimir Putin's war with Ukraine. And I say unaddressable because there's nothing you can say to the idiocy of Donald Trump's hypothetical. That's idiotic on so many levels that I don't want to go into it because it feels bad for the brain to even begin to respond to Such nonsense. I mean, Moscow is not Vladimir Putin's to give. For one thing, he couldn't give it to anyone. The Russian government couldn't give it to anyone. And by the way, no one would take it. What are you going to do with a big failing city in the middle of a big failing country? And okay, now I'm doing what I said we shouldn't do. So let's just stop that right here. What happens when you send a child to Alaska thinking he's going to Russia to talk to Vladimir Putin about Vladimir Putin ending his war in Ukraine? If Donald Trump gets Vladimir Putin to actually end his war in Ukraine, I will agree with Donald Trump that that is a very big deal. And I have no fear of having to agree with Donald Trump about anything involving Russia. When is the last time Vladimir Putin gave up anything? And when is the last time Vladimir Putin gave up anything to a child? A child who doesn't know that Russia's adoration of its dictators always has time limits. And so whatever Russia names after Vladimir Putin will surely have a different name when Donald Trump's youngest grandchildren are in high school. Today, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy and European leaders met virtually with Donald Trump to discuss his Friday meeting with Vladimir Putin. The New York Times reports Mr. Zelenskyy said that he had warned Mr. Trump that Mr. Putin was bluffing about his intentions in Anchorage. I told my colleagues the American President, our colleague Putin does not want peace. Mr. Zelensky said he wants to occupy us completely. Joining us now is Ambassador Wendy Sherman, former US Deputy Secretary of State. Ambassador Sherman, thank you very much for joining us tonight. I know there's nothing that any serious person can interpret in anything Donald Trump has actually said about what he's going to Alaska to do. But is it possible that the meeting with European officials and President Zelensky today might have had a possible impact on what happens in Alaska?
- [32:09]
Wendy Sherman
Well, the good news, Lawrence, is that I think today it had a positive impact. The president said the call, the virtual Zoom, was a 10. Zelensky and all of the European leaders said that there was agreement that there should be a ceasefire first before any discussion of territory, that there might be some way to deal with things without ever giving recognition for a Russian occupation of any part of Ukraine, that nothing about Ukraine should be decided without Ukraine. However, we have seen this movie before. It could well be that Donald Trump will go to Alaska ready to be tough minded, ready to listen, making sure he does not negotiate on behalf of Ukraine without Ukraine in the room. And then Vladimir Putin may talk a good game with him and all of a sudden we'll be back where we've been for months now since Donald Trump became president. He starts to say, I don't like Vladimir Putin. He's giving me all kinds of, pardon me, he used this word, bullshit. And as he said today, there'll be severe consequences if he doesn't want to make peace. Well, President Trump, get ready. Vladimir Putin does not want to make peace. He believes Ukraine belongs to him and he's not about to give up. I think the President Trump wants to sweet talk him with all kinds of possibilities. Trade critical minerals, work together in the Arctic, getting him back in the G7 to make it the G8 again, thinking that the transactional approach can get Putin won over. I don't think that will happen at all. Vladimir Putin knows what he's doing. He's getting the meeting he wanted. And I think Donald Trump will walk away empty handed. And I hope he then understands what he heard from President Zelenskyy and the European leaders today.
- [34:13]
Jen Psaki
Today, Donald Trump was asked about the latest reporting on Russia trying to hack and possibly successfully hacking into the federal court system in this country to hack into the federal court records. And Donald Trump once again seemed to be almost welcoming of that in his response, as he was definitely during the 2016 presidential campaign when he publicly begged Russia to hack State Department emails of Hillary Clinton. Let's listen to what Donald Trump said about this today. There's a new reporting that the Russians have hacked into some computer systems that manage US Federal court documents. I wonder if you've seen this reporting and if you plan to bring it up with Putin when you see him later in the week. I guess I could. Are you surprised? You know, he's surprised. They hack in. That's what they do.
- [35:06]
Jamie Raskin
They're good at it.
- [35:09]
Jen Psaki
So Ambassador Sherman there, he's admitting that they're good at it. In fact, they were so good at it that they did it during the 2016 presidential campaign, as the Mueller investigation proved. But it's inconceivable that any other president of the United States would not confront Vladimir Putin on that.
- [35:31]
Wendy Sherman
Without a doubt, Lawrence, this is a serious matter that they hacked into sealed federal court records. So that was quite a statement from the president. Likewise, when the president was asked whether he could get Vladimir Putin to stop killing civilians, he basically said, no, I've raised it with him. He says all these nice things and then I go back home and he kills more civilians. That's a chilling statement. I hope the president listens to his own words and understands who Vladimir Putin is, what's going down here. And the president has to bring his clearest, toughest adult self to this meeting.
- [36:17]
Jen Psaki
Ambassador Wendy Sherman, thank you very much for joining us tonight.
- [36:21]
Wendy Sherman
Thank you, Lawrence.
- [36:24]
Jen Psaki
Coming up, how much is Trump pocketing off the presidency? That's a question historians will be studying for centuries. The New Yorker's David Kirkpatrick has been working on an answer to that question, and so far, he has counted billions. David Kirkpatrick will join us with his reporting on all the president's money. Next.
- [36:48]
David Kirkpatrick
Businesses that are selling through the roof, like Untucket make selling and for shoppers, buying simple with Shopify, home of the number one checkout on the planet. And with shop Pay, you can boost conversions up to 50%. Businesses that sell more sell on Shopify. Upgrade your business and get the same checkout untuck it uses. Sign up for your $1 per month trial period@shopify.com podcastfree all lowercase. Go to shopify.com podcastfree to upgrade your selling. Today.
- [37:17]
Rachel Maddow
Saturday, October 11th, from New York City, it's MSNBC Live 25. Join your favorite MSNBC hosts, Rachel Maddow, Joe Scarborough, Mika Brzezinski, Nicole Wallace, Ari Mel, Alicia Menendez, Simone Sanders Townsend, Michael Steele, Chris Haynes, jen Psaki, Lawrence O', Donnell, Stephanie Rule, and more. Visit msnbc.comlive25 to buy your tickets today.
- [37:51]
Jen Psaki
A question that historians will be working on for literally hundreds of years, I mean, they're still working on George Washington is how much is Donald Trump pocketing off the presidency? That is the title of David Kirkpatrick's new article in the New Yorker trying to answer that question. Donald Trump's newest gold mine appears to be cryptocurrency, the New Yorker reports Eric Trump often says his family first fell in love with crypto in the years after the Capitol riot. Big banks dropped the Trumps, including Deutsche bank, their most important lender, and Capital One, where the Trump Organization had hundreds of accounts. And today the Wall Street Journal is reporting that Donald Trump's crypto business has a partnership with another convicted felon. Chinese born billionaire Chang Zheng Zhao was convicted last year of money laundering and sentenced to four months in federal prison. The Wall Street Journal reports he, quote, is seeking a pardon from according to people familiar with the matter and recently hired Ches McDowell, a lobbyist and friend of Donald Trump Jr. To push for the pardon. Cheng Sempeng Zhao is the founder of Binance, the world's largest crypto exchange, which the Wall Street Journal says, quote, serves as an incubator of sorts, drumming up interest among traders to use coins issued by the Trump family's main crypto company, World Libert Financial. David Kilkpatrick reports in the New Yorker. The Trump family is involved in at least a half dozen projects selling crypto reporting, quote, selling increasingly vaporous goods for ever more profit inevitably raises questions about what buyers are really getting for their money. The family's thirst for cash makes questions about conflicts of interest all the more pressing. Like the digital clock counting the national debt, the meter on the Trump family's presidential profits ticks even faster. The New Yorker's David Kirkpatrick will join us after this break. Donald Trump is the only president in history who uses the White House to actively sell merchandise for his own personal profit. A Gulf of America baseball hat is $50 in Donald Trump's pocket. Trump flip flops are $40, which is a markup over the New York street price of about $2. David Kirkpatrick of the New Yorker is joining us. His article is titled How Much Is Donald Trump Pocketing off the Presidency? David, this is a tough assignment you to try to do this work. And as I've said, historians will be following you on this for literally a couple of hundred years to come. Do you think there will ever be a full accounting?
- [41:11]
Chris Hayes
Well, little by little, more and more will be known. What I try to do is go through the various enterprises and streams of income that Trump has reported or been reported about Trump and ask first which of these depends on the presidency, which of these is a way of making money off the presidency, and then what's the best I can do to figure out at least how much it's worth, Right? Not the maximum it could be worth, but at least the basic what it's going to be. And that gets me up to 3.4 billion, which is a lot of money.
- [41:43]
Jen Psaki
And so when you look at the things that are possible because of the presidency, what are those?
- [41:51]
Chris Hayes
Well, it ranges from selling merchandise that looks like campaign merchandise but is actually going into his pocket. As you mentioned, there's some real estate deals. Now he's done some details while president or his company's done some deals while president that I'm going to say are fair. You know, it's a continuation of the family's business before he was elected, like in India, others. There's just no way to imagine them happening without his presence in the White House. And I would count all five of the megadeals that he's done around the Persian Gulf with a Saudi company. A lot of the crypto ventures that he's launched definitely are unimaginable without the fact that he's president. So there's a variety of them. But real estate deals with the Persian Gulf, getting a jet from the Qataris and crypto are some of the big ones.
- [42:40]
Jen Psaki
And it seems the Persian Gulf is an inspiration for him. You write Trump's profiteering resembles that of an Arab monarch. He treats his public office as personal property, as an asset that is his to exploit, as if he owned it. And David, he does that without embarrassment.
- [43:01]
Chris Hayes
Yeah, that was the opinion of someone I quoted, you know, but you can see what we're talking about there. He treats the presidency like it is his personal property in that he's using it as the basis to make money. That's true.
- [43:17]
Jen Psaki
And you've got a. There's a list we've kind of created off of your reporting that we can put up on the screen with the Trump media crypto. 1.3 billion token investments, 412 million. This thing dollar Trump, which I don't even know what it is, is that also a cryptocurrency? 385 million. Yeah, 320 million.
- [43:42]
Chris Hayes
These are subheads from the article. That's right. The dollar sign Trump is his meme coin Token investments refers to a part of this company, World Liberty Financial. I have to tell you, the thing that most stood out to me in this reporting is just the speed, just the zeal of these money making efforts. They launched some new ones just in the last few days. We're going to press this new effort to sell a mobile phone service for $45.47 a month around the President's name. Most recently, just this Monday, they launched a new one, which is another kind of a crypto scheme that I didn't even include. If you look back when I started this project in March, their net worth would have. I'm sorry, the amount of money that they made off the President would have been more than a billion dollars lower because it's just in the last two months now that they've come up with this scheme where they're trading the inflated stock in Trump Media for bitcoin.
- [44:38]
Jen Psaki
David Kirkpatrick, thank you for your invaluable reporting. Thank you for joining us tonight.
- [44:44]
Chris Hayes
Good to be here.
- [44:45]
Jen Psaki
Hey, everyone, it's Chris Hayes. This week on my podcast, why Is this Happening? Baltimore Mayor Brandon Scott. When you think about the history of Baltimore and gun violence, this issue has really been the issue that has made or broken the careers of mayor after mayor after mayor and really been the centerpiece for all discussion around this city for more than 50 years, longer than I've been live. That's this week on why is this Happening? Search for why is this happening? Wherever you're listening right now. And follow.