Lawrence: The Epstein survivors have questions that Donald Trump and Kash Patel refuse to answer

Summary

The Last Word with Lawrence O'Donnell

Episode: "The Epstein Survivors Have Questions That Donald Trump and Kash Patel Refuse to Answer"
Date: September 19, 2025
Host: Lawrence O’Donnell, MSNBC

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Episode Overview

In this charged episode, Lawrence O’Donnell delivers commentary and analysis on several intersecting political controversies:

• Donald Trump’s reported commemoration of Confederate General Robert E. Lee and its symbolism.
• The growing political and media fallout from the recent firing of TV host Jimmy Kimmel—framed in contrast to far more serious but under-covered crises.
• Explosive developments involving Jeffrey Epstein’s legacy, including Trump’s connections, a UK diplomatic scandal, withheld FBI "Epstein files," and pointed criticism from Epstein survivors.
• In-depth interviews with Democratic gubernatorial candidates Mikie Sherrill (New Jersey) and Abigail Spanberger (Virginia) as early voting launches, highlighting the electoral landscape, economic anxieties, and the state-level impact of national politics.

The tone mixes O'Donnell’s classic sarcasm and righteous indignation with pointed, fact-driven interviews and survivor voices demanding answers.

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Key Themes & Discussion Points

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1. Trump’s Commemoration of Robert E. Lee and the Confederacy

[03:16 – 07:45]

• O'Donnell opens with the news that Trump "reinstalled the nearly 20 foot canvas portrait of Confederate General Robert E. Lee" at West Point.
• Stresses Lee’s legacy: committed treason, led a war to preserve slavery, was personally cruel to enslaved people, and orchestrated mass casualties.
• Sharp rebuke to Trump:

  "That's Donald Trump's idea: memorializing treason and slavery at West Point." (06:19)

• O'Donnell contrasts the outsize media coverage of TV personalities to the deeper gravity of history and lives lost due to real policy decisions.

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2. Jimmy Kimmel’s Firing and Media/Cultural Priorities

[07:45 – 14:02]

• O'Donnell criticizes "television cares more about television" as more outrage is shown over a celebrity’s job loss than humanitarian crises (food aid cutoffs in Africa, loss of health insurance).
• Asserts corporations lack principles, referencing economic historian John Kenneth Galbraith to illustrate cowardice in media conglomerates facing political pressure.
• Trump’s involvement in Kimmel’s firing is positioned as a tactic to distract from substantive issues, branding the firing as a new form of the "blacklist."
• Memorable moment:

  "There is no history of American corporate bravery... The people running Disney are not rich enough. That is why they bent to Donald Trump." (12:12)

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3. Epstein Scandal: New British and American Political Reverberations

Peter Mandelson, Trump’s Denials, and the Suppressed Files

[14:02 – 23:27]

• News hook: The UK Prime Minister recently fired the British Ambassador to the US (Peter Mandelson) after emails surfaced showing Mandelson’s support for Epstein even post-conviction.
• O’Donnell highlights hypocrisy:

  "Donald Trump gets to stand beside that same British Prime Minister today who fired Peter Mandelson last week, fired him for being a friend of Jeffrey Epstein...Donald Trump lied when asked about the British Ambassador who got fired for his friendship with Jeffrey Epstein." (15:57)

• Trump’s evasive responses and documented ties to Epstein (including a signed "birthday book" message made public) are scrutinized.
• Joe Rogan’s reaction to the strange tone of Trump’s birthday message to Epstein:

  "We have certain things in common, Jeffrey..." (19:57 - Quote from Trump’s message)
  Joe Rogan: "If one of my friends sent me that, I'd be like, I'm getting a new number." (20:43)

• House Oversight Committee members accuse Trump and his administration of an ongoing cover-up, including refusal to release Epstein files to the public and Congress.

  "We demand answers. It's time to release the Epstein files." (21:23)

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4. Survivors’ Statement & Questions to Trump and Kash Patel

[23:27 – 29:19]

• The women who survived Epstein's trafficking read out a detailed statement following ex-NSC official Kash Patel's congressional testimony, which they argue grossly minimized the extent of Epstein's crimes and connections.
• The survivors demand direct answers:
  • Why does the FBI/DOJ defer to previous administrations’ lack of investigation?
  • Will they release the full list of men named in victim accounts?
  • What concrete plan exists for a full, survivor-centered investigation?

  "Survivors deserve better and so does the public. We deserve answers... Survivors are waiting." (Survivors’ statement, 27:17–29:17)

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5. Interview: Rep. Ro Khanna (House Oversight Committee)

[30:57 – 34:07]

• Khanna doubles down on the "two broken promises" from Trump and Kash Patel: not just failure to release all files, but a complete lack of actual investigation or engagement with survivors.
• O’Donnell notes the investigative breakthrough regarding the Epstein "birthday book" came from a previous episode together with survivor attorney Brad Edwards.

  Ro Khanna: "They have not lifted a finger to investigate this and that's why the victims and survivors are so furious and upset." (32:36)

• Discussion about the attempted subpoena of the Trump FCC chair (Brendan Carr) for intimidation of ABC over Jimmy Kimmel, and the lack of Republican support.

  "For an administration that has lectured us about cancel culture, they're certainly intimidating a lot of people trying to cancel them." (33:17)

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6. Gubernatorial Races: New Jersey and Virginia

Interviews with Mikie Sherrill & Abigail Spanberger

A. Mikie Sherrill – New Jersey Candidate for Governor
[36:24 – 39:51]

• Discusses the economic pain experienced in NJ—a combination of tariffs (coffee price example), energy rate hikes (specific PJM grid mismanagement), healthcare and housing affordability.
• Announces intent to "freeze rate hikes on families" and "declare a state of emergency on utility costs" if elected.

  "I'm going to take on these economic hits Donald Trump is imposing on New Jersey." (38:47)

• Opponent Jack Cittarelli is painted as an unquestioning Trump supporter.

B. Abigail Spanberger – Virginia Candidate for Governor
[41:59 – 47:38]

• Early voting launches; Spanberger leads nine points in polls.
• Highlights economic anxieties—especially for federal workers, hit hard by "trade policy" and the Trump "big beautiful bill," destabilizing everything from jobs to healthcare to university funding.
• Frames campaign as focused on the everyday struggles of Virginians—housing, affordability, education—while acknowledging the national significance of her race.

  "I'm running for Virginia to serve Virginia... we have the great responsibility for setting a very important example for the rest of the country." (45:21–46:30)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• O’Donnell on Trump’s Lee commemoration:

  "A commemoration of treason at West Point. That's Donald Trump's idea, memorializing treason and slavery at West Point." (06:19)

• O’Donnell on corporate cowardice:

  "That book hasn’t been written because there is no history of American corporate bravery." (10:15)

• Joe Rogan on the Trump-Epstein birthday book:

  "If one of my friends sent me that, I'd be like, I'm getting a new number." (20:43)

• Epstein Survivors' collective statement:

  "We deserve answers to questions like these... Survivors are waiting." (27:17-29:17)

• Ro Khanna on investigative failures:

  "They have not lifted a finger to investigate this and that's why the victims and survivors are so furious and upset." (32:36)

• Mikie Sherrill’s economic focus:

  "I'm going to freeze rate hikes on families. This is the kind of bold action people in New Jersey want to see." (36:24-37:35)

• Abigail Spanberger on the significance of the Virginia race:

  "We have the great responsibility... for setting a very important example for the rest of the country about what is possible." (46:30)

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Timestamps & Segment Guide

• [03:16] Trump’s honoring of Robert E. Lee and critique.
• [07:45] Media focus on Jimmy Kimmel’s firing, contrasted with deadly policy outcomes.
• [14:02] New UK scandal: British ambassador/Peter Mendelson’s emails to Epstein.
• [19:57] Joe Rogan and O'Donnell discuss Trump’s bizarre birthday message to Epstein.
• [21:23] House Oversight Committee demands release of Epstein files; direct allegations of Trump’s cover-up.
• [23:27] Epstein survivors read their open letter pressing Trump and Kash Patel.
• [30:57] Interview: Rep. Ro Khanna on "broken promises" and lack of real investigation.
• [36:24] Interview: Mikie Sherrill on NJ governor race, economic pain, and policy promises.
• [41:59] Interview: Abigail Spanberger on Virginia race, national implications, local issues.

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Summary

This episode is a high-octane collision of contemporary scandal and electoral politics. O’Donnell leverages recent developments—the resurfacing of Trump’s deep ties to Jeffrey Epstein, Trump’s symbolic embrace of Confederate history, the media’s absorption with cultural spectacles, and increased survivor activism—to paint a portrait of political cowardice, deflection, and the dire need for accountability.

He underscores the persistence of survivors’ voices and the fresh momentum in Congress (epitomized by Rep. Khanna’s efforts and scorn for bureaucratic inertia). The gubernatorial interviews project a parallel story: the local effects of national dysfunction and the resilience of candidates like Sherrill and Spanberger who pledge responsive and assertive governance.

For listeners, the episode exposes the manifold channels through which public attention is redirected—whether by celebrity scandals or political spectacle—while the demands of justice and the voices of those harmed struggle for light.

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For Further Information/Action:

• Abigail Spanberger campaign site
• Mikie Sherrill campaign site
• House Oversight Committee on Epstein files

This episode is essential for anyone tracking the intersection of media, justice, and electoral politics in the Trump era.

Transcript

[Laci Mosley]

What's poppin listeners? I'm Lacey Mosley, host of the podcast Scam Goddess. The show that's an ode to fraud and all those who practice it. Each week I talk with very special guests about the scammiest scammers of all time. Wanna know about the fake errors? We got em? What about a career con man? We've got them too. Guys that will wine and dine you and then steal all your coins. Oh, you know they are represented cause representation matters. I'm joined by guests like Nicole Byer, Ira Madison iii, Conan o' br and more. Join the congregation and listen to Scam Goddess wherever you get your podcasts.

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[Lawrence O'Donnell]

The Last Word with Lawrence O' Donnell starts right now. Hey, Lawrence.

Hey, Jen. You remember the blue wave election of 2018 in which the Democrats won back the House of Representatives? Two women elected that year, Abigail Spanberger and Mikey Sherrill. They won from New Jersey and from Virginia. They, as you know, became roommates, as members of Congress sometimes do because it's exp. Have to have a place in Washington and a place back in your state. They became roommates and you'll never guess where they are tonight.

Are they on your show?

That's correct. You guessed. I don't know how. You did.

How did I guess?

They are both candidates for governor in New Jersey and in Virginia. They're both going to join us here in back to back segments tonight. Early voting begins tomorrow in Virginia, so it is happening.

I better get voting. They are such interesting candidates. They are such interesting leaders in the Democratic Party.

[Abigail Spanberger]

Really.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Two people to watch. Two reasons to watch this year, but two people to watch long beyond that is my bet.

And running really strong campaigns.

Absolutely. And they are national security experts and that's part of their backgrounds, which is also incredibly interesting. But running both really strong campaigns, really savvy. I love that you're having them on together. I'm gonna have to get in my car and listen to it.

That's because the people running this show, putting these guests together are brilliant. I have nothing.

I know that.

Let me just I have nothing to do with it, as you know. I don't even think about it. And they call me and they say, this is who we have and we're lucky.

You just show up. You put your tie on the right way, unlike Keshe Patel. So that's good. And you have really smart producers. Same here. All the smart, really smart producers that make us look smart or try to do their best to every night.

Thanks, Jen. We're going to go and have both of those candidates join us and we're going to see what happens with them on election night.

Look forward to watching.

Thank you. Well, tonight, Donald Trump chose to commemorate and memorialize slavery. Why? Because he's Donald Trump. He did that by honoring a cruel and vicious slaveholder who killed more American soldiers than anyone else in the world in history. More American soldiers than Adolf Hitler ever dreamed of killing. Donald Trump announced on social media that he has tonight, quote, reinstalled the nearly 20 foot canvas portrait of Confederate General Robert E. Lee at the West Point library on campus. Robert E. Lee is the single most disgraced West Point graduate in history. He committed treason. He waged war against the United States of America, a war in which Robert e. Lee killed 360,000 soldiers who were defending the United States of America, while the incompetent Robert E. Lee caused the unnecessary deaths of 260 misguided Confederate soldiers under his command in a war that Robert E. Lee never had a chance of winning. A war in which Robert E. Lee disgracefully led 260,000 Confederate soldiers to their certain deaths, utterly pointless deaths, in a lost attempt by slaveholder Robert E. Lee to preserve slavery. And Donald Trump said that Robert E. Lee is there to, quote, commemorate, memorialize the Confederacy. The Confederacy was an organization of states that banded together to wage war against the United States of America to preserve slavery. And Donald Trump wants to commemorate that. Robert E. Lee had his own personal enslaved victims beaten severely. He sold members of enslaved families to different buyers so that those family members could never find their family members again for the rest of their lives, even after Robert E. Lee lost his evil war. And that is who Donald Trump wants to commemorate and memorialize a commemoration of treason at West Point. That's Donald Trump's idea, memorializing treason and slavery at West Point. And that is the kind of thing that I obviously take very seriously. But it's also the kind of Trumpian madness that, thanks to the creative spark in American comedy, can be joked about at Donald Trump's expense, of course, and can be joked about brilliantly. And now there's one less comedian to make those jokes at Donald Trump's expense. And television, as you may have noticed, takes nothing more seriously than television. Television has devoted more coverage to Jimmy Kimmel losing his job than it has devoted to Donald Trump and Elon Musk literally taking food away from starving children in Africa in the middle of a famine this year. What? Donald Trump and Elon Musk, when they closed down the United States Agency for International Development and its delivery of food aid in famine, they sentenced hundreds of thousands of people to death. Babies, toddlers, grandfathers, mothers, sisters, brothers starving to death together. And none of them got the attention or the outrage that we have seen on television over one person losing a TV show. Jimmy Kimmel is great at what he does. Jimmy Kimmel's writers are great. Jimmy Kimmel is a great guy. I really like Jimmy Kimmel. I really admire Jimmy Kimmel. And I am sure that as outraged as Jimmy Kimmel deserves to be about what has happened to him, I am sure that he is embarrassed to be getting more attention on television to his plight than the people in this country who have lost their health insurance because of Donald Trump. And to the dedicated federal workers in this country, many of them who have been working to save lives longer than Jimmy Kimmel has been telling jokes, who have been fired by Donald Trump. But television cares more about television than everything else in this world. As television is making very obvious to you in the last two days, and if you greet what happened to Jimmy Kimmel with surprise, you are unconsciously ignoring a body of knowledge that is as old as television itself. And that is the history of American corporate bravery. That book hasn't been written because there is no history of American corporate bravery. The year before Jimmy Kimmel was born, in 1967, the biggest book on the bestseller list was written by the most famous economics professor in the world at the time, Harvard's John Kenneth Galbraith, who was the first economist to land on the bestseller list in 1958 with the Affluent Society, and then in 1967, returned to the bestseller list with the New Industrial State. The New Industrial State brilliantly analyzed the truth of. Of how American corporations operate. The utter soullessness. The book came out in an era when family owned businesses were still capable of having principles. Family businesses like the New York Times or the Washington Post that then were willing to publish the Pentagon Papers while facing threats of reprisal from the President of the United States, Republican Richard Nixon, who went on to become the most disgraced president in history prior to Donald Trump. But corporations Giant corporations, as Professor Galbraith pointed out, don't have principles. And most people working in show business already knew that before the giant corporation that employed Jimmy Kimmel decided to bend in abject fear of threats from Donald Trump and is completely out of control. Chairman of the FCC and what they fear, what they fear in Donald Trump's threats is that they won't keep getting richer. They're not rich enough. The people running Disney are not rich enough. That is why they bent to Donald Trump. They're just not rich enough yet. They have to keep making more and more and more money. And if Donald Trump threatens that flow of money in any way, they will get rid of whoever Donald Trump wants them to get rid of. And so the blacklist is back. And don't ever forget, Hollywood invented the blacklist, a list of people who they would not employ in show business because they were suspected of having political beliefs that right wing Republicans in Washington did not like in the 1950s. And Hollywood will likely be just as courageous this time, which is to say, not courageous at all. The liberal writers, producers, directors and actors and production crews who supply ABC's best shows will continue to do so, most likely, and take their paychecks from ABC. It has been 24 hours and there has not been a single principled resignation from the corporate offices of ABC or Disney. Not one. And you should not expect one because that's the way corporations behave. And I do not mean to minimize the grotesquery of what has happened to Jimmy Kimmel, but we shouldn't exaggerate it either. Jimmy Kimmel's First Amendment rights have not been taken away. He can say whatever he wants, but no one has a constitutional right to a TV show. We can all lose our TV shows at any moment for any reason, and we're all supposed to know that. If you're in the TV business and you don't know that, well, you should know it now. The CDC director who Robert Kennedy fired testified to the Senate yesterday that children are dying and will die in this country because of the decisions and announcements about vaccines made by the most vile Nepo baby in American history, Robert Kennedy Jr. And that news. That news had to fight for a sliver of space on television with the coverage of what happened to Jimmy Kimmel, who has had a spectacularly long and successful run on television and will surely provide us with more great entertainment one way or another for years to come. Conan o' Brien has brilliantly demonstrated that there is creative life after you leave the talk show anchor desk. Donald Trump is thrilled that television has decided to devote itself to what has turned out to be his successful attack on Jimmy Kimmel. Donald Trump's successful campaign to get Jimmy Kimmel off television. Donald Trump loves this coverage. Donald Trump's supporters are thrilled with this as a Donald Trump win and they are thrilled by all the outrage expressed on television against Donald Trump for knocking Jimmy Kimmel off tv. They see this wall to Wal coverage as a Trump win. No matter how much negative stuff gets said about Donald Trump and his FCC commissioner, it plays to Trump fans as a big Trump win. And for Donald Trump, most importantly, it creates what he needs, a giant television diversion from the giant problem of Donald Trump's year this year, which, thanks to British reporter Beth Rigby of Sky News, was thrown in Donald Trump's face again today.

Finally, if I may, the elephant in the room, Lord Mandelson, he is no longer the ambassador. Do you have some sympathy with him that he lost his job over historic links to Jeffrey Epstein?

Thank you very much, sir. I don't know him actually. I had heard that and I think, I think maybe the Prime Minister would be better. Speaking of that, that was a choice that he made and I don't know. What is your answer to that?

[Ro Khanna]

Well, I mean, it's very straightforward.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Some information came to light last week which wasn't available when he was appointed and I made a decision about it and that's very clear. So there's the British Prime Minister saying he couldn't possibly continue to associate with someone who was friends with Jeffrey Epstein and that is why he fired the British ambassador to the United States last week, when Bloomberg News exclusively reported emails from Ambassador Peter Mendelsohn in 2008, when he was not the ambassador to Jeffrey Epstein, after Jeffrey Epstein pled guilty and was about to begin serving a light sentence in Florida in a plea deal that saved him from facing federal sex trafficking charges and charges of raping children. And as we reported to you last night, Peter Mandelson emailed this to Jeffrey Epstein the day before Epstein started his sentence in that case, a sentence that allowed him to work all day in his office in Florida and then spend the night in a barracks like facility that could hardly be called a prison. Mendelssohn emailed Jeffrey Epstein, I think the world of you and I feel hopeless and furious about what has happened. I can still barely understand. Just could not happen in Britain. Peter Mandelson has no doubt felt hopeless and furious for a week now since Bloomberg News reported his intense sympathies for the sex trafficker and raper of children who was, according to Jeffrey Epstein, Donald Trump's closest friend for 10 years. Jeffrey Epstein said on tape, I was Donald Trump's closest friend for 10 years. But Donald Trump gets to stand beside that same British Prime Minister today who fired Peter Mandelson last week, fired him for being a friend of Jeffrey Epstein. That is what the British Ambassador to the United States was convicted of in the British Court of Politics by the Prime Minister last week, being a friend of Jeffrey Epstein. And that same smarmy, pathetic British Prime Minister relentlessly sucks up to Donald Trump because he fears Donald Trump's wielding his illegal and unconstitutional tariffs in a way that will harm British exporters. If British Prime Minister Keir Starmer were running abc, he would have fired Jimmy Kimmel a long time ago. He has the soul of a corporate CEO, which is to say, none at all. And that is what allows him to shame Britain by standing beside Jeffrey Epstein's closest friend of 10 years today. And of course, Donald Trump lied when asked about the British Ambassador who got fired for his friendship with Jeffrey Epstein. Donald Trump was asked brilliantly by Beth Rigby, do you have some sympathy with him that he lost his job over historic links to Jeffrey Epstein, historic links that are weaker than Donald Trump's historic links to Jeffrey Epstein. And Donald Trump didn't say yes or no. Donald Trump didn't say that he doesn't have sympathy for him. So we can assume that maybe he does have sympathy for a guy losing his job because he was friends with Jeffrey Epstein. But Donald Trump also told the lie, quote, I don't know him. Actually, here's Donald Trump not knowing him today. It just, in my view, as the Prime Minister has said, just shows what two countries who trust each other, who are confident in each other and are familiar with each other, can do, not just for ourselves, but for those the rest of the world who need to benefit from a bigger and better international trading system. Thank you very much. It was beautifully stated. What a beautiful accent. I'd like to have that accent. Thank you.

[Ro Khanna]

My mother would be proud.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Thank you very much. Donald Trump's Scotland born immigrant mother would not be proud of his queen's accent picked up in his neighborhood in New York. So there's the British Ambassador in the Oval Office with Donald Trump joking and laughing. And that wasn't the only time. That was four months ago. But to give Donald Trump the benefit of the doubt here in his 79 year old weakening neurological state, his ability to remember how many times he's been hanging with the British ambassador in the Oval Office might be a little shaky at this point, but the British ambassador was most recently in the office on September 9, nine days ago. But Donald Trump's answer today was, I don't know him, actually. Donald Trump's friendship with Jeffrey Epstein is now haunting him from more than one side of our politics. Today it was Trump supporter Joe Rogan's turn. Joe Rogan's a comedian, not a reporter, so you'll have to forgive him for more than being more than a week behind the news about the public release of the drawing and birthday message to Jeffrey Epstein with Donald Trump's signature that was given to Jeffrey Epstein for his 50th birthday. Joe Rogan caught up with that news today.

[Joe Rogan]

It says there must be more to life than having everything. DONALD yes, there is. So he wrote this, supposedly the voice, it says voiceover like he's like a movie star, like he's in a script. DONALD yes, there is. But I won't tell you what it is. JEFFREY Nor will I, since I also know what it is. Who talks like this. DONALD we have certain things in common, Jeffrey. JEFFREY yes, we do. Come to think of it, Donald Trump, enigmas never age. Have you noticed that? JEFFREY As a matter of fact, it was clear to me the last time I saw you. Yeah, a pal is a wonderful thing. Happy birthday. May every day be another wonderful secret.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

I don't get why he's writing a script.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, very odd stuff.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

It's quite strange.

[Joe Rogan]

But it's also like the way enigmas never age. Have you noticed that? And Jeffrey, as a matter of fact, it was clear to me the last time I saw you, if one of my friends sent me that, I'd be like, I'm getting a new number. Ye to get a number.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Why didn't you write Happy birthday?

[Joe Rogan]

Happy is wrong with you? Enigma.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

And on the other side of our political landscape today in Washington, the top Democrat on the House Oversight Committee who is leading the charge to obtain the Epstein files and who personally released the birthday book message last week, said that the real crime center in Washington, D.C. is on Pennsylvania Avenue.

[House Oversight Committee Member]

And right now, since we're talking about crime and corruption in D.C. as we speak, Trump is leading a White House cover up of the Epstein files. Now, just yesterday, Trump's FBI director falsely claimed that he could not release the files, which we know is false. And let's review the facts. Epstein told the reporter that Trump was his closest friend for 10 years. One survivor also said that Epstein's biggest brag was he was very good friends with Donald Trump. In fact, There was an 8 by 10 picture framed of Trump on his desk. We know the two are very close. Just last week, our committee released the birthday note that Trump personally wrote to Epstein. It's right here. The note said, by the way, and I'll read it, may every day be another wonderful secret. That's a disgusting message to send to a sex trafficker. Now, the COVID up of this note might be just as bad of the crime, since we're talking about crime In Washington D.C. today, Trump filed a $10 billion lawsuit to punish the Wall Street Journal for reporting on the birthday book, which he claimed didn't exist. Now, of course, we verified that to the world. Now, experts have looked at this. Of course, this is Donald Trump's signature. It certainly looks like the signature to me. At the same time, his administration is cutting deals with a criminal, Ghislaine Maxwell. We know who she is. Exactly. She's a monster who participated in crimes against up to over possibly a thousand women. Now, Trump and our Attorney General have not turned over the full Epstein files to our committee, despite a bipartisan subpoena signed by our chairman and this committee. If we want to get tough on crime, if we want to talk about crime in dc, we need to stand up to where the crime and corruption is happening, and that is at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue and hold Donald Trump accountable for his record and his actions. It's time for the House majority and Republicans to stand up for the Constitution and take on the biggest crime happening in this country. It's time to release the Epstein files.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Tomorrow, the House Oversight Committee will question its most important witness to date, Donald Trump's former Labor secretary, Alex Acosta, who is former U.S. attorney in Florida, who approved a secret non prosecution agreement with Jeffrey Epstein in 2008 which allowed him to plead guilty to state charges involving a single underage victim protecting him from federal prosecution on sex trafficking charges. As NBC News reports, quote, a Justice Department official, Justice Department Office of Professional Responsibility investigation found, it was Acosta who made the pivotal decision to resolve the federal investigation of Epstein through a state based plea and either developed or approved the terms of the initial offer to the defense. That set the beginning point for the subsequent negotiations that led to the non prosecution agreement. The November 2020 report also found that Acosta's top lieutenants went around the FBI, the federal prosecutor investigating the case and the victims by making an offer for Epstein to plead to state charges. The deal resulted in Epstein serving 13 months in a Palm beach county jail where he was allowed to leave almost daily through a work release program and have his own private security detail. He could have faced up to life behind bars had he been convicted in a federal complaint that was shelved as a result of the deal. And today, by far, the most important thing said about the Epstein files and Donald Trump's FBI director's testimony this week about the Epstein files came from the women survivors of the crimes of Jeffrey Epstein and his criminal co conspirator Ghislaine Maxwell. Their statement should be heard in full. In a written statement, the survivors said they were shocked by Kashyap Patel's testimony, claiming falsely that there is no evidence that Jeffrey Epstein trafficked children and teenage girls to other people. The survivor's statement said, we are struggling to understand what this means. Even the limited information that has been made public includes accounts such as Virginia Giuffre's report that Epstein trafficked her to other individuals besides himself. We also understand, as Representative Thomas Massie pointed out during the House oversight hearing, that there are FBI reports documenting witness interviews in which victims of Epstein and Maxwell named at least 20 other men they were trafficked to. Director Patel's testimony raises more questions than answers. For years he has railed about the incompleteness of previous investigations. He is right about that. Previous investigations were indeed incomplete. So what is his plan to make sure that a thorough and unbiased investigation is conducted? At last, he seems to acknowledge that the FBI FD302 reports naming other men to whom Epstein Maxwell victims were trafficked are real. So will he release those reports to the House Oversight Committee and to the public? He seems to imply that officials in previous administrations deemed those reports not to be credible. He has not read the reports himself. He has not spoken to the victims himself. And yet he plans to defer to unnamed officials from prior administrations who treated the reports as not credible. How can this be? Those previous administrations are the ones that Kash Patel spent years accusing of a cover up. Now he will pass the buck to them to decide that information about other men in the Epstein Maxwell trafficking ring is not even worth following up on. There are victims and witnesses who to this day have still not been interviewed. Will they continue to be ignored? Survivors deserve better and so does the public. We deserve answers to questions like these. Do the FBI and Justice Department have a plan to conduct a proper investigation? At last? What is that plan? Will you release the FD302 forms containing witness accounts of men to whom Epstein and Maxwell trafficked women and girls? Who were the officials in previous administrations who deemed the FD302 reports not credible. Why are you deferring to that decision without reading the reports or interviewing the witnesses yourself? Given the number of times that survivors of Epstein Maxwell abuse have been betrayed by the justice system, how will you ensure an unbiased and truth seeking process that survivors can trust? Director Patel testified that the original sin of the Epstein case was the unconscionable non prosecution deal that U.S. attorney Alex Acosta gave Epstein and the limited investigation Acosta conducted as head of the FBI. Director Patel can work now to remedy that in a way that finally centers survivor voices and finally pursues the whole truth. The public demands it, the victims deserve it, and our system of justice, without fear or favor, requires it. Survivors are waiting. Survivors are waiting. Congressman Ro Khanna of the House Oversight Committee will join us next.

[Laci Mosley]

What's poppin listeners? I'm Laci Mosley, host of the podcast Scam Goddess, the show that's an ode to fraud and all those who practice it. Each week I talk with very special guests about the scammiest scammers of all time. Wanna know about the fake errors? We got em. What about a career con man? We've got them too. Guys that will wine and dine you and then steal all your coins. Oh, you know they are represented because representation matters. I'm joined by guests like Nicole Byer, Ira Madison iii, Conan o' Brien and more. Join the congregation and listen to Scam Goddess wherever you get your podcasts.

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[Lawrence O'Donnell]

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[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Joining us now is Congressman Ro Khanna of the House Oversight Committee. And Congressman, when we read the victims survivors written statement about their very carefully observed response to the FBI director's testimony, all the questions that he should have answered now remain there unanswered in the questions that the survivors have asked.

[Ro Khanna]

Lawrence, there are two broken promises here by FBI Director Patel and Donald Trump. The first broken promise is obvious. They promised to release all the files. They haven't released the files. But the survivors are pointing out there's a second broken promise and that is that they promise to investigate the issue. And FBI Director Patel has not talked to a single victim. He has not talked to the lawyers. He has made no effort to release or investigate the FBI files. In fact, I was talking to Senator Sheldon Whitehouse today and he commented that you have done more in the investigation than Pam Bondi or Cash Patel. And this is the second real disappointment and broken promise.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Well, Karishman, it was here on this program that you learned about the possibility of subpoenaing the birthday book from the Epstein estate, which you then made happen. You took that information to the committee, made that happen. That's why we have the birthday book. We learned that live together on television from attorney Brad Edwards who represents the survivors, who suggested that's where we could get it. That's how easy this investigation is. That's how easy it is.

[Ro Khanna]

You know, Lawrence, I complimented you and your team, but come on, it doesn't take rocket science to think that, oh, maybe we should look for some documents at the Epstein estate. And you're telling me that the Attorney General of the United States and the FBI director could not think that maybe they should ask for the Epstein estate for some documents? Give me a break. They have not lifted a finger to investigate this and that's why the victims and survivors are so furious and upset.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Congressman, on another point before you go, you tried to get the FCC chairman, Donald Trump's FCC chairman subpoenaed today. Why and what happened?

[Ro Khanna]

Well, for a administration that has lectured us about cancel culture, they're certainly intimidating a lot of people trying to cancel them. Carr basically threatened ABC saying if you don't pull down Jimmy Kimmel, we are going to have consequences. And nexstar, that carries a lot of local ABC has a merger pending before Carr. So he's wielding his authority in a way that is unconstitutional. We need to hold him accountable. He needs to know that Congress is Article one and we're not going to put up with this.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Add zero Republican support for that subpoena.

[Ro Khanna]

It had zero support but to ranking member Garcia's credit, he negotiated with Colmer. Colmer now is committed to bringing him there, which shows that if we're aggressive in the oversight minority, we can still make things happen and stand up for the Constitution.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Congressman Ro Khanna, thank you very much for joining us tonight.

[Ro Khanna]

Thank you.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Thank you. And coming up, it is a critical election year. Two very important governor campaigns, very important states where voters will have the first chance to give us a sense of what's happening with the Trump presidency as it relates to races in other states. The first of our governors, our governor gubernatorial candidates. Joining us tonight will be New Jersey's Democratic representative, Mikey Sherrill. That's next. Today, Donald Trump, the only president in history who doesn't understand the meaning of the word tariff, said this.

So with regard to people's feeling about the economy and the tariffs, and, you know, some polls show that people are concerned about the tariffs as well.

It's only because they don't understand the word tariff. I mean, look, again, we have all this money, trillions of dollars pouring into our country only because of the tariffs. No one at Fox understands the word tariff either because there is no money pouring into the country from tariffs. Every penny of tariff money paid to the United States treasury comes from people in this country. It comes from everyone buying products in this country and paying the American companies for those products that have already paid the tariffs for those products when those products arrived at the loading docks here in the United States. And that is why inflation is on the rise here in the United States and will continue to be. And that inflation is affecting prices throughout the economy, including utility prices, which are now a major issue in the campaign for governor in the state of New Jersey. Joining us now is former Navy helicopter pilot, now Congressman Mikey Sherrill, the Democratic nominee for governor of New Jersey. Thank you very much for joining us tonight. And as I watch the TV commercial campaign across the river here from New Jersey, how did electricity rates in New Jersey become what seems to be the number one issue?

Well, as you kind of trace the tariffs, I can tell you the tariffs are raising costs on everyone at almost every level, from purchases on Amazon to the grocery store to, of course, I was speaking to Chuck, a friend of mine who's an owner of a coffee store who was saying a pound bag of coffee from Brazil used to cost $2.50 and now it's $6. 57. So all of these costs are being passed on to people throughout New Jersey. And so people are feeling these costs, the cost affordability is A key issue. Mortgage prices, home prices, rental prices, et cetera. But just recently, last month, energy prices went up by about 20% because largely, PJM screwed up the market. That's our grid operator. And they didn't let enough power into the grid quickly enough. A lot of people saw this coming. A lot of different entities saw it coming but did nothing. And the end result was everybody's electric bill went up. So that's why I've said on day one as governor, I'm declaring a state of emergency on utility costs. I'm going to freeze rate hikes on families. This is the kind of bold action people in New Jersey want to see from leaders. And this is what I'm going to do as governor.

You invoked your experience as a former federal prosecutor in talking about the rate hikes. Are you suggesting that there might have been something illegal?

So what was so frustrating to me is how many people saw this coming, how many people knew that there was a problem, that costs were going to go up and did not act quickly enough. I'm going to act quickly and move massive amounts of power into our grid to defray these costs. But it doesn't end there. At every level, we continue to see Donald Trump attacking the economy of New Jersey. So you mentioned tariffs, but that's not where it ends. It's the one big, beautiful bill which is going to raise costs on health care and houses and more utility cost hikes. And my opponent, Jack Cittarelli, has said he is 100% in line with Donald Trump, that there's nothing he disagrees with him on. As the people of New Jersey are attacked, the economy of New Jersey is attacked, our rights and freedoms are attacked every single day.

You're running eight points ahead of the Republican in this race. And between now and Election Day, what do you think will be the closing argument?

Well, unfortunately, I think these costs are going to continue to go up exponentially. We have heard from economists that a lot of the price from the tariffs have not even hit the market yet. As I was mentioning, the coffee store owner, he was saying it took him a while to move prices because it costs money to print menus and to print signs. So he's been eating it for a while, but he's about to put that on the customers because he can't keep his business open any longer. What's worse is we're also seeing, because of the chaotic nature of these tariffs, some of our large businesses have stopped hiring, have withdrawn job offers. I was speaking to some young people in New Jersey who were saying they had job offers out of college. Those have been withdrawn. And they're really not sure what's going to happen to the economy going forward. They're very concerned. So this is just mounting. And I think the closing argument is, look, I'm going to take on these economic hits. Donald Trump is imposing on New Jersey. I, I'm going to fight Trenton to make sure we're lowering costs. And Jack Cittarelli is going to do whatever the heck Trump wants him to do.

Mikey Sherrill, candidate for governor of New Jersey. We have to end it here so we can make room for your former roommate.

Oh, wonderful.

Who? You just might, you might be seeing her at governor's meetings next year.

I just might. But tell her hi. And also, just before I leave, I have to tell everyone we could use your help. Go to mikeysharrill.com, chip in, sign up for volunteer shifts. Come give us a hand in New Jersey. I had to get that in before Abigail asked. Thanks so much.

Thank you. Thank you very much for joining us. And tomorrow, early voting begins in Virginia's election for governor. And Virginia's Democratic candidate for governor, Abigail Spanberger joins us next with networks like Fox News, cnn, MSNBC and more. Sling is the best way to get the news you care about, which is great for everyone. Well, almost everyone. Where's that dang paper boy? I need my news outdated and rolled up like a burrito. Finally, now I can read all about.

[House Oversight Committee Member]

What happened forever ago.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

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[Ted Danson]

Hey, everybody, Ted Danson here to tell you about my podcast with my longtime friend and sometimes co host Woody Harrelson. It's called where everybody knows your name. And we're back for another season. I'm so excited to be joined this season by friends like John Mulaney, David Spade, Sarah Silverman, Ed Helms, and many more. You don't want to miss it. Listen to where everybody knows your name. With me, Ted Danson and Woody Harrelson. Sometimes, wherever you get your podcasts, you.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

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[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Tomorrow. Voters in Virginia will begin voting in the most important election we will have this year in this country, the election for governor of Virginia, which is always seen as a predictor of what will happen in the congressional elections next year. Polling in August showed former Democratic congresswoman Abigail spanberger with a nine point lead 49 to 40 against Virginia's Lieutenant Governor Winsome Earl Sears, the Republican nominee. Donald Trump has not endorsed the Republican nominee who has called abortion genocide. New reporting shows at least three Virginia health clinics are closing as a result of the Trump Republican budget bill. Joining us now is former CIA officer and former congressman Abigail Spanberger. She's running for governor of Virginia in an election that will begin tomorrow with early in person voting. Thank you very much for joining us tonight on the eve of the beginning of this election. And what was going on in that roommate group when you both joined Congress together, Mikey Sherrill and you was there immediate talk about who's going to run for governor first?

[Abigail Spanberger]

The honest to God truth on that is absolutely not. But you know, not to speak for Mikey, but as I traveled across Virginia or certainly across my district and started to really hear about some of the issues that are most urgent in families, lives and in communities across Virginia. Issues of affordability, certainly in housing, health care and energy. The desire to ensure that our kids have the best education they possibly can get, that we have a governor who's leading with great stability and focus and steadiness. I think we both started focusing our attention on what could be done in our home states and how we could perhaps focus on leading our home states. Certainly I announced my campaign for governor long before Donald Trump was elected a second time. And the circumstances of this election become so much more dire, particularly given the attacks on the federal workforce. Virginia is home to more than 320,000 federal employees. Certainly the instability caused by the trade policy of this administration that has impacted businesses of all types and Virginia's farmers in particular. And now of course, the so called big beautiful bill that is will have devastating financial impacts on Virginia as well as so many other states across the commonwealth. So Virginia voters know that starting tomorrow we get to go cast our ballots, demonstrate that we want something very different than the leadership we currently have in Richmond. That we want a governor who will stand up for Virginians and that we want a governor who will actually work to address some of the biggest concerns that people are feeling, particularly in areas of affordability and costs and our kids futures.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Virginia is one of those states that can go either way. We've seen the state elect Democratic governors, Republican Governors, it's still that way. Do you feel a personal pressure when you know the entire Democratic Party is looking at you and going to make a calculation about their future in the next congressional election based on how you perform in this one?

[Abigail Spanberger]

The answer is in theory, yes. I do my best to not focus on that. I do my best to kind of tune it out every time someone makes a sort of over the top statement about how Virginia is the end all and be all indicator of what's to come. Certainly the things that motivate me, that keep me going every single day are the stories for people who really need a governor who's focus on the policies that will impact their life, that you know that know that this election is an important and at times a dire one. And particularly as we have seen bad policies coming out of Washington that are hurting our state and hurting Virginians. You know, our governor hasn't stood up for our economy, for our workforce, for our people, for our universities. And we want a governor who will demonstrate that leadership. My opponent's the current lieutenant governor. She's been lockstep with the kind of assault on Virginia coming out of Washington, defending it all along the way, including the firing of thousands upon thousands of Virginians in addition to them losing their livelihoods. That is a deep economic hit on our commonwealth. So I'm running for Virginia to serve Virginia. But I certainly recognize, as we all do here on the ground, the great responsibility that we have for setting a very important example for the rest of the country about what is possible when people get focused on the issues that matter, resolute in their determination, building out strong programs to get voters to the poll, to knock on doors, to make phone calls, to engage people. And, you know, amid this time of worry and consternation that exists everywhere, to tell people we are the lucky ones in Virginia and New Jersey, we are the lucky ones because we get to go to the polls. So for viewers watching, if you have friends in Virginia, make sure you send them our website, Abigail spanberger.com, we've got everything they need to know about voting, information, where to cast their ballot early or on election day. And if people want to support our campaign, volunteering or financial support from afar, welcome them to do that as well.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Abigail spanberger.com Abigail Spanberger, tonight, the front runner in the campaign for governor in Virginia. Thank you very much for joining us tonight.

[Abigail Spanberger]

Thank you. Thank you for having me.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

We'll be right back. Candidate for governor of Virginia, Abigail Spanberger gets tonight's last word. Early voting in Virginia begins tomorrow.

[Ted Danson]

Hey, everybody, Ted Danson here to tell you about my podcast with my longtime friend and sometimes co host Woody Harrelson. It's called where everybody knows your name, and we're back for another season. I'm so excited to be joined this season by friends like John Mulaney, David Spade, Sarah Silverman, Ed Helms, and many more. You don't want to miss it. Listen to where everybody knows your name with me, Ted Danson, and Woody Harrelson sometimes, wherever you get your podcasts.