Lawrence: The public knows Trump is lying about tariffs. Why doesn't the White House press corps?

Summary

Detailed Summary of "The Last Word with Lawrence O’Donnell" Episode: "Lawrence: The public knows Trump is lying about tariffs. Why doesn't the White House press corps?"

Podcast Information:

• Title: The Last Word with Lawrence O’Donnell
• Host: Lawrence O'Donnell, MSNBC
• Description: Lawrence O’Donnell leverages his extensive political experience to dissect and discuss impactful political stories each weeknight.
• Episode: Lawrence: The public knows Trump is lying about tariffs. Why doesn't the White House press corps?
• Release Date: July 9, 2025

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Introduction

In this episode, Lawrence O'Donnell tackles the contentious issue of former President Donald Trump's misleading statements about tariffs and scrutinizes the apparent complacency of the White House press corps in holding him accountable. Throughout the discussion, O'Donnell integrates insights from esteemed guests, including Harvard Economics Professor Jason Furman, Georgia Democratic Senator Jon Ossoff, and former U.S. Ambassador to Russia, Michael McFaul. The conversation delves deep into the economic repercussions of Trump's tariff policies, the political fallout surrounding Republican-led Medicaid cuts, and the broader implications for U.S. foreign policy.

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Trump's Misstatements on Tariffs

Lawrence O'Donnell's Critique: O'Donnell begins by drawing a parallel between fictional portrayals of a "stupid president" and Donald Trump's actual presidency. He asserts that Trump not only exemplifies this archetype but has also been aided by an equally ineffective White House press corps.

"The stupidest presidency in American history has the stupidest White House press corps in American history as far as we can tell." ([00:43])

Key Points:

• Misrepresentation of Tariffs: Trump claims that tariffs are generating substantial revenue for the United States, misleading the public about the true economic impact.

• Press Corps Complicity: O'Donnell criticizes the press for failing to challenge Trump's narrative, effectively becoming "accessories" to his misinformation.

"Only Donald Trump could do that. And only Donald Trump has been able to beat down and humiliate White House reporters to the point where they take that for an answer." ([06:50])

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White House Press Corps's Inaction

O'Donnell laments the transformation of the White House press corps under Trump, highlighting their diminished role in investigative journalism and accountability.

"They’re not allowed to do their jobs in the Trump White House, but they are allowed to be there, which apparently is all that matters to most of them." ([06:20])

Notable Example: A specific instance is cited where Trump deflected a critical question about the pause in weapons shipments to Ukraine with a nonsensical response:

"I don't know. Why don't you tell me?" ([07:56])

O'Donnell underscores that such deflections are met with compliance rather than confrontation from the press.

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Economic Implications of Tariffs

Guest: Jason Furman, Professor of Economic Policy at Harvard University

Discussion Highlights:

• Tariffs Misconception: Furman clarifies that tariffs do not generate external revenue for the U.S. Treasury. Instead, they are paid by American consumers and businesses, leading to higher prices.

"We're starting to see some prices rise a lot more. Retailers have talked about price increases over the summer. It's your viewers, your viewers here in the United States, at least, that will be paying and are already paying price, these tariffs." ([28:43])

• Long-Term Economic Impact: The imposition of tariffs disrupts global supply chains, increases costs for consumers, and can provoke retaliatory measures from other countries, ultimately harming domestic industries.

"This time people are going to start noticing it...we end up losing jobs and industries that, you know, would have exported things to those countries because, you know, it's not just the United States that can play this game." ([30:10])

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Republican Medicaid Cuts and Senate Races

Guest: Jon Ossoff, Georgia Democratic Senator

Discussion Highlights:

• Impact of Medicaid Cuts: O'Donnell shifts focus to the Republican-led budget bill proposing significant Medicaid cuts, emphasizing the immediate and dire consequences for healthcare access in states like Georgia.

"These cuts are designed to impact the states where Democrats believe they can win Senate seats." ([35:31])

• Political Fallout: Ossoff argues that these cuts will devastate vulnerable populations, leading to hospital closures and increased healthcare costs, thereby becoming a pivotal issue in upcoming Senate races.

"It is a political disaster for Republicans in Georgia because it is a real life disaster for my constituents." ([37:27])

• Economic Strain on Healthcare: The reduction in Medicaid reimbursements forces hospitals to seek alternative funding, often resulting in higher costs for patients and potential closures, disproportionately affecting rural and underserved communities.

"When rural hospitals close, everyone nearby loses." ([36:03])

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Trump's Comments on Vladimir Putin

Guest: Michael McFaul, Former U.S. Ambassador to Russia and MSNBC International Affairs Analyst

Discussion Highlights:

• Shift in Trump’s Rhetoric: McFaul observes a rare moment of Trump openly criticizing Vladimir Putin, marking a potential shift in his diplomatic stance.

"This is the first time he's been this critical of Vladimir Putin using even words we don't want to say on this show." ([42:48])

• Policy Inconsistencies: Despite verbal critiques, Trump has historically failed to implement effective policy measures against Putin, raising concerns about the authenticity and impact of his statements.

"The old strategy's not working. Throwing everything to Putin, giving him concessions, has not achieved the outcome that he wants just to end this war." ([43:35])

• Potential for Policy Change: McFaul expresses skepticism about whether Trump's current criticisms will translate into meaningful policy shifts, emphasizing the need for a more robust approach to countering Russian aggression.

"It's now time for Plan B. Will he actually do it? I have to say I hope he does, but I fear he won't." ([44:20])

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Conclusion

Lawrence O'Donnell wraps up the episode by reiterating the central theme: the detrimental alliance between Trump's misleading rhetoric and the passive stance of the White House press corps. He underscores the broader implications for American democracy, economic stability, and international relations.

"The public knows much better than the White House press corps that Donald Trump is lying about who pays the tariffs on this." ([35:15])

By featuring expert analyses and firsthand accounts from key political figures, the episode provides a comprehensive examination of the intricate dynamics at play within Trump's administration and the media landscape. It calls into question the efficacy of journalistic oversight and highlights the pressing need for accountability in political discourse.

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Notable Quotes:

• "Only Donald Trump could do that. And only Donald Trump has been able to beat down and humiliate White House reporters to the point where they take that for an answer." — Lawrence O'Donnell ([06:50])

• "We're starting to see some prices rise a lot more. Retailers have talked about price increases over the summer. It's your viewers, your viewers here in the United States, at least, that will be paying and are already paying price, these tariffs." — Jason Furman ([28:43])

• "It is a political disaster for Republicans in Georgia because it is a real life disaster for my constituents." — Senator Jon Ossoff ([37:27])

• "This is the first time he's been this critical of Vladimir Putin using even words we don't want to say on this show." — Michael McFaul ([42:48])

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This episode offers an incisive look into the interplay between political rhetoric, media responsibility, and economic policy, urging listeners to critically evaluate the narratives presented by those in power and the institutions tasked with holding them accountable.

Transcript

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

When work gets crazy, I like to.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Stop by the bar after have a few cold ones.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

I don't drink at all until 4 o'.

[Jason Furman]

Clock.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

We limit ourselves to one bottle of wine a night.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Excessive drinking has a way of sneaking up on us. A few drinks, a few nights a week, it can add up and suddenly we're at greater risk for long term problems like heart disease, cancer and depression. Reason enough to rethink the drink More more at rethink the drink.comnoha initiative Ryan.

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[Lawrence O'Donnell]

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[Ryan Reynolds]

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[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Sold.

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Give it a [e-mail] Switch upfront payment.

[Jason Furman]

Of $45 for three month plan equivalent to $15 per month required new customer offer for first three months only. Speed slow after 35 gigabytes of networks busy taxes and fees extra.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Cmnobile.com well the possibility of a relentlessly stupid person becoming President of the United States has been under explored by screenwriters. And then Donald Trump came along and went far beyond what Hollywood could ever imagine in the presidency. Prior to Donald Trump, the challenge for screenwriters and fiction writers was would have been first of all, how could a profoundly stupid person be elected President of the United States? And then how could a profoundly stupid person get through a day on the job as President? The fictional President, played brilliantly by Martin Sheen on NBC's Emmy winning series the West Wing, was a wise and carefully thoughtful president for whom I wrote several episode scripts over seven years of that series. And if I were writing the character of a stupid president in a script, I would simply have had the stupid president completely rely on a smart White House staff and a smart cabinet and just hide behind those people. And absolutely, and I mean absolutely, never talk to the press because a stupid president's stupidity would be immediately exposed by the White House press corps. And on that point I would have been very wrong. Because it turns out the stupidest presidency in American history has the stupidest White House press corps in American history as far as we can tell. And the press corps have become accessories as they proved again today. No one could have imagined that if we get the stupidest president history, we would also get the stupidest White House press corps collectively in history. But that is where we are. Some individual members of The White House press corps, and I want to stress this, remain excellent at their jobs, but they frequently don't get to ask Donald Trump a question in the elbow to elbow question competition that occurs when Donald Trump invites them into the Oval Office, or as it was today, in the Cabinet room. It was the first time the Trump campaign Cabinet has met since Elon Musk left his position. That wasn't actually a Cabinet position, but that granted him a seat at the table in Trump Cabinet meetings, absurdly which those Trump Cabinet meetings have consistently been the most ridiculous cabinet meetings in the history of the Cabinet. Today, Donald Trump's accessories were allowed into the room to ask some questions. The White House press corps have become accessories in more than one sense. There is the criminal law concept of accessories and there is the fashion notion of accessories. Donald Trump turns White House reporters into both versions of that word accessories. He treats them like handbags or cufflinks, ornaments that he flashes around to pretend and only pretend that he is openly communicating about what he is doing in his workday when he never really answers questions. And so that is never true. And Donald Trump uses the press corps as accessories before and after the fact of his lies. Donald Trump uses White House reporters to evade questions asked by other White House reporters. He plays them for clowns and they have no idea how to resist it. And I have to admit, if I were in the White House press corps, I'm not sure I would figure out how to resist it, except to maybe yell out some question about Donald Trump lying about something and then I wouldn't be in the White House press corps anymore. I would be shown out the door and that would be the end of that. There was a moment in Donald Trump's playing with the press today that shows everything all at once. It shows Donald Trump's colossal stupidity in an exchange that he thinks shows how clever he is. Imagine how stupid you have to be as President of the United States to think that when asked a question about something important that you're supposed to know your answer is, I don't know, why don't you tell me? There have been previous presidents who have been asked questions that they didn't know the answer to, which they should have known the answer to. And not one of them said, I don't know, why don't you tell me? Because none of them are as stupid as Donald Trump. Only Donald Trump could do that. And only Donald Trump has been able to beat down and humiliate White House reporters to the point point where they take that for an answer. Meekly and shut up. Which is exactly what happened today. When that White House reporter took that answer, meekly, tried to mumble a follow up, another White House reporter beside her immediately jumped in, performing his role as an accessory after the fact of Donald Trump's stupidity, to offer Donald Trump a complete change of subject, a completely different question, to run away from the question to which his idiotic answer was, I don't know, why don't you tell me? And the reporter who he asked, why don't you tell me? Began to follow up. But the other White House reporter came in to rescue Donald Trump. And all of that happens in one flash in the Cabinet Room today. And not a single White House reporter is outraged. Not a single White House reporter raised a voice. And the White House reporter who got Donald Trump to say, I don't know, why don't you tell me? Is the very same White House reporter who was always congratulated for being very aggressive, and that's the term they're always proud of, very aggressive with President Joe Biden. She never would have allowed Joe Biden to say to her, why don't you tell me? Without an aggressive and very loud response to that, a raised voice, aggressive response to that. But it's Donald Trump now. So the White House press corps has changed its own rules of behavior in order to continue to be allowed in the Trump White House. They're not allowed to do their jobs in the Trump White House, but they are allowed to be there, which apparently is all that matters to most of them who have exhibited no shame whatsoever in the diminution of their status, their reduction to accessories by Donald Trump. Here is that moment when everything all at once happened today. Putin is not, he's not treating human beings right. He's killing too many people. So we're sending some defensive weapons to Ukraine, and I've approved that.

[Jason Furman]

So who ordered a pause last week?

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

I don't know. Why don't you tell me? I think that's a question for the past on immigration. The secretary, the agriculture did say this morning that undocumented workers would not be covered up by any amnesty who were working on farms and we were off to immigration. Donald Trump obviously thought he was being very clever with the why don't you tell me wise guy question. There is not another president in our history who would think there was anything clever about that, because there isn't. It was a confident version of Donald Trump's rank stupidity. Why don't you tell me? Donald Trump thinking he's showing how tough and defiant he is. Of reporters with that response. Who ordered the pause of weapons shipments to Ukraine last week was actually the best question asked in the Cabinet Room today, and it figured into CNN reporting tonight about the paused arm shiftment. CNN reports Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth did not inform the White House before he authorized a pause on weapons shipments to Ukraine last week, according to five sources familiar with the matter, setting off a scramble inside the administration to understand why the halt was implemented and explain it to Congress and the Ukrainian government. President Donald Trump suggested on Tuesday that he was not responsible for the move. Asked on Tuesday during a Cabinet meeting whether he approved of the pause in shipments, Trump demurred only that the US Would continue to send defensive weapons to Ukraine. Pressed again on who authorized the pause, Trump replied, I don't know. Why don't you tell me? Two of the sources attributed Hegseth's not informing the White House to the fact that he has no chief of staff or trusted advisers around him that might urge him to coordinate major policy decisions better with interagency partners. Not another question in the Cabinet Room by members of the White House press corps today was worth asking. And some of the questions came from the Trump worshipping reporters who have been added to the White House press corps by Donald Trump. And so the whole concept of a White House press corps has been corrupted by Donald Trump even before the non corrupt members of the White House press corps have decided to use their talking to pets voices instead of the screaming level that they could reach at Joe Biden directly and at his White House press secretary. And so that is how the stupidest president in history can face the White House press corps with ease. It's very rare for Donald Trump to get even slightly nervous by something raised by the White House press corps. But it happened today when a reporter asked the Attorney General sitting at the table in the Cabinet Room about the Epstein files, at which point Donald Trump interrupted with a sudden concern for the now 111 people known to have been killed in flooding in Texas last weekend than the additional 173 who tragically remain missing and unaccounted for as of tonight. To that Epstein question aimed at the Attorney General, Donald Trump interrupted and said, are you still talking about Jeffrey Epstein? This guy has been talked about for years. You're asking. We have Texas, we have this, we have all of the things and there are people still talking about this guy, this creep. That is unbelievable. Do you want to waste time? Waste time? Donald Trump is the only President of the United States in history who was caught many Times by witnesses and photographers partying with a child rapist who killed himself in prison. And so, yes, there will be questions about Jeffrey Epstein, even from the White House press corps, especially when people Donald Trump has appointed to his administration spent years claiming that there were all sorts of incriminating bits of information in the Epstein files that needed to be revealed to the public, which now don't need to be revealed to the public, according to the Trump Attorney general. And as to wasting time, Donald Trump's longest statement in the Cabinet Room today was to describe the Cabinet room. Donald Trump spent more time describing the room where all the reporters were standing and could see for themselves than any other subject that was raised in that room today. He talked about all the presidential portraits that he has added to the Cabinet Room, among other things. And each one of those portraits got much more talk time in the room than Jeffrey Epstein did. And, of course, time was no concern of Donald Trump's when he was rambling incoherently and saying things like, those machines flew for 37 straight hours. They didn't stop. They went, skedaddle. You know what the word skedaddle? It means skedaddle. They dropped the bombs and they. Somebody said, skedaddle, let's get the hell out of here. And three sentences later, after the skedaddle business, Donald Trump was mentioning Hunter Biden's bedroom. That's in a discussion with the press where Donald Trump is concerned. He says about how much time a response about the Epstein files might take. Donald Trump embarrassed himself today, as only Donald Trump can when talking about what the missing almost cabinet member did in government. Elon Musk. Donald Trump was asked, this, I think, is the first Cabinet meeting that Elon Musk has now, since Elon Musk has been in special employee in government. He's not here anymore. He's now saying that he's going to create a third party. Are you worried about the impact that that could have? That was the question. Donald Trump said, no, he's not worried. And then Donald Trump was asked by the same reporter, are you second guessing any of the cuts that the Department of Government Efficiency made? Those cuts were all made by Elon Musk using Donald Trump's authority to make those cuts. So those cuts were really made by Donald Trump. That's how it works in the presidency. And Donald Trump said in response to that question, we could have done it differently. I would have done it differently. Again, no president in history when explaining something that his administration has done has ever said, I would have done it differently. A sane President could not say that because a sane president would know that he did was President Harry Truman, who famously said, the buck stops here, meaning the president is responsible for everything done by the presidency and everyone working for the presidency. And so Donald Trump is the first president to sit in the Cabinet Room and say to reporters, I would have done it differently when discussing something he did. And it takes a mind that is surrounded by a thick wall of stupidity to come up with a statement like that. As President of the United States, I would have done it different, differently. Donald Trump became the first president in history to use the word bullcrap. And I just cleaned that up publicly in the Cabinet Room. And I can tell you, in the meetings in Cabinet Room that I attended when I was working in the Senate and President Clinton was president, I never heard a word like that in the Cabinet Room, not because we weren't all capable of using that word and might have used that word somewhere else during the day, but because we were all in a room that brought to us a sense of decorum, a place which was the first place, the first room where President Franklin Delano Roosevelt had his very first discussion of America's involvement in World War II after the Japanese attack on Pearl harbor on December 7, 1941. That's the cabinet Room. The Cabinet Room, like the Oval Office, is a room where you feel history surrounding you the second you cross the threshold and you respect that history, unless you're Donald Trump. It was when Donald Trump was, for the first time, publicly saying what everyone else has always said about Vladimir Putin, which is that he's not always telling the truth about Ukraine. That's where Donald Trump decided to use that word bullcrap, which I refuse to use here, because even here, the decorum that this program requires lives above the language of Donald Trump. And, yes, it lives above language that I use when this camera and microphone are off, and that we all do. But language depends on place. Language depends on setting. Donald Trump doesn't know that. And because Donald Trump has the most extremely limited vocabulary of any president in history, along with the most limited intelligence, his frustration with Vladimir Putin came out in profanity because he has no sense of common decency, no sense of dignity, no respect for his surroundings, even though he's happy to talk at length about the presidential portraits he's decided to put on the wall of that room. Once again today, the White House press corps played the roles of perfect accessories to Donald Trump's lies about tariffs. Nothing, and I mean nothing, has enabled Donald Trump's lies about Tariffs more than the now overwhelming stultifying ignorance of the White House press corps that they display day in and day out every time Donald Trump says the word tariff in front of them. Early in the discussion with the press today, Donald Trump said, the tariffs, as you know, are starting to come in at record levels. Tremendous amounts of money are coming into our country. He said that. And not one White House reporter said zero money is coming into the country from tariffs. Not one White House reporter chose today as the day to demonstrate that at least that one reporter knows that the money Donald Trump is talking about coming into our country is already here. It is in your wallet. It is in your bank account. It is in the bank accounts of American companies that are going to pay the tariffs in American dollars in the United States, which is the only place the tariffs can be paid. And those companies are going to pass on the cost of those tariffs to you in increased prices of the products that have been delivered from foreign countries, products that you need, and a product that is going to cost you more money because of Donald Trump's tariffs. And so, no, tremendous amounts of money are not coming into our country from tariffs and never will come into our country from tariffs and have never come into our country from tariffs, because that is impossible. And no White House reporter seems to know that. And the entire crew of White House reporters is stained now by the disgrace of White House reporters, failing to point out that every time Donald Trump tells that lie, that it is a lie, and failing to ask him why he's telling that lie, failing to ask him why he cannot admit that tariffs imposed by Donald Trump are paid only only by people in America with American dollars at the port of entry into the United States. That no foreign country has ever paid one penny of a tariff to the United States and never will. And it can never be that way. Never has been and never will work that way. No tariff has ever worked that way. The White House press corps doesn't know that, at least according to what they say when they're given a chance. Not one of them knows that. Toward the end of Donald Trump's discussion with reporters, Donald Trump gave them a history lesson, during which, by their silence, they declined to reveal if a single one of them knows just how much dementia it takes to think that this Trump's story is American history. And this is what Donald Trump actually said, said these words, they tried to bring back tariffs, but the whole thing was, you know, this was after the Depression. That was one of the great misconceptions, is people like to say oh, but it was during the. No, the. We went. The country had a Great Depression, and then after the Depression, long after it started, they brought back tariffs to see if they could save it. No objection to that from White House press corps. No objections at all. That just sailed right through. Sailed right by them. Viewers of this program know that the Smoot Hawley tariffs were written by the Republican chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee and the Republican chairman of the Senate Finance Committee, both of which committees have jurisdiction over tariffs. And they got the tariffs, in effect, by history, named after themselves Senator Reed Smoot and Congressman Willis Hawley. They were signed into law by Republican President Herbert Hoover in 1930, and they caused and accelerated profoundly the Great Depression. The tariffs came before the worst of the Great Depression and they worsened the Great Depression, and they were done and put into law entirely by Republicans. And Joe Biden, on his sickest day in the presidency when he had Covid and he could barely speak, could never have said anything as utterly ignorant of history as that lunacy. Donald Trump spoke to the White House press corps about tariffs coming after the Great Depression. But Donald Trump can do it. And the White House press corps says nothing because they apparently know nothing about the subject of tariffs or the Great Depression and who knows what else. The shame of the White House press corps and the Trump campaign press corps is their disgraceful failure to be able to confront Donald Trump about his lies about who pays the Trump tariffs. That is the simplest lie Donald Trump tells about tariffs, which has become a huge subject in his presidency, that no White House press reporter is apparently capable of understanding. And Donald Trump has never been confronted on that lie by the White House press corps. If an individual member of the White House press corps does understand all of this about tariffs and has been unfairly blocked by the Trump people or colleagues in the room from being able to ask that question, I hereby apologize to that unknown reporter for lumping that reporter in with the genuinely disgraceful job that the larger group has done in their complete failure to penetrate that very simple lie. But the public knows, the public knows much better than the White House press corps that Donald Trump is lying about who pays the tariffs on this. The American public much, much smarter than your average White House reporter. A new poll shows 81% of Americans are very concerned or somewhat concerned about the impact of. Of tariffs on their personal finances. And I have absolutely no doubt that 81% of the White House press corps do not know how tariffs work. And not one of those 81% of the public who do know who are completely correct in their concern, have had any Trump at all, any help at all in comprehending the Trump tariffs from the White House press corps. What would happen? What would happen if Donald Trump turned on a White House press reporter and said, why don't you tell me about tariffs? Would they all be speechless? Or would Donald Trump's accessories finally find their voice? We'll be right back.

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[Lawrence O'Donnell]

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[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Today, Donald Trump told this lie and got away with it. He told this lie about worldwide tariffs to the press in the Cabinet Room. He said, I just want you to know a letter means a deal. You know, a lot of people said deal. We've got 200 countries. We can't meet with 200 countries. No kidding. That's why we have the World Trade Organization. That's why the United States used the World Trade Organization to enter into a World Trade Agreement which took several years to negotiate because as the stupidest president in history would say, we can't meet with 200 countries. Joining us now is Jason Furman, former chairman of the Council of Economic Advisers for President Obama. He's professor of Economic Policy at Harvard University. Professor Fuhrman, thank you very much for joining us tonight. We are at a new chapter in the Trump tariff situation. I don't even quite know what to call it at this point. We see the stock market reacting very negatively to it. And Donald Trump still does not seem to have learned that all of the money raised from tariffs is raised in the United States. That's where the tariffs are paid. And as I recall in my introductory economics course in college, that was somewhere in the first semester.

[Jason Furman]

Yeah, I mean, it's just literally how the law operates. We're starting to see some prices rise a lot more. Retailers have talked about price increases over the summer. It's your viewers, your viewers here in the United States, at least, that will be paying and are already paying price, these tariffs.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

And Donald Trump keeps saying that the money is pouring in like it's coming in from somewhere else into the United States Treasury, I guess. And if you heard a president say that, I mean, you couldn't hear a president say it other than this one. What would be the question that might illuminate for that person how wrong that is?

[Jason Furman]

I mean, first of all, literally, it's collected here in the United States. We have the experience in his first term where it was paid by people. The thing is, the tariffs this time are just enormously larger than his tariffs in the first term. So the first term, I think a lot of people didn't notice. Economic researchers did. This time people are going to start noticing it. By the way, they'll also notice when other countries put tariffs on us and we end up losing jobs and industries that, you know, would have exported things to those countries because, you know, it's not just the United States that can play this game.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

So President Clinton was there when they completed a world trade agreement which actually crossed presidencies. It began, the negotiations began under the first President Bush because they take years, because Donald Trump has discovered there's a couple hundred countries to talk to. And so that is in all of those negotiations around the world, all of the momentum has been toward a reduction of tariffs over time. What has been driving. What has been the economic theory driving that approach.

[Jason Furman]

The United States has been an enormous beneficiary of that. We benefit both as consumers, because we can buy things that are made all around the world, many of which we could never make, some of which we wouldn't necessarily want to make, and then we benefit as workers because it means we get better jobs in exporting industries. It's just very hard to make any product sophisticated product from beginning to end. Some pieces of an iPhone are made in some places, some are made in others. What you want is the highest value added part of that value chain.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Your colleague Lawrence Summers, former president of Harvard, economics professor at Harvard, in a New York Times op ed piece today titled this law made me ashamed of my country, says this about the Trump budget bill. The cruelty of these cuts is matched only by their stupidity. Medicaid beneficiaries will lose, but so will the rest of us. The cost of care that is no longer reimbursed by Medicaid will instead be borne by hospitals and passed on to paying patients only at higher levels because delayed treatment is more expensive. When rural hospitals close, everyone nearby loses. And Professor Fuhrman, we see there again an economic effect that is similar to tariffs, meaning this idea of cutting reimbursement for Medicaid means that the system will find that revenue somewhere else from other paying users of the system.

[Jason Furman]

Yeah, that's absolutely right. 12 million people are expected to lose their health insurance. They're still going to be spending money. They'll be spending it inefficiently, they'll be spending less, they won't be spending it well, but some degree, they'll still be spending it and someone else will be paying for that. Who will that be? Well, it might be you. If your health insurance premium goes up, it might be you. If your hospital closes and you have to travel a further distance to another hospital, it might be you if the cost of that treatment goes up. There's just many ways in which you're not just going to have these 12 million people losing insurance suffering, but that suffering will spiral onto just about everyone.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

And like tariffs, which won't show up on the price tag at Best Buy, this cost shift will be invisible to us. We'll just see our insurance premiums go up and just think, well, insurance premiums always go up.

[Jason Furman]

That's exactly right. It won't be completely clear, but that doesn't make it any less real. And I'd like to think that there's been enough discussion of this bill and there will be, and we're having this discussion right now. Maybe next year when people see their premiums go up, they will remember, you know what, there was a law passed last year and may not be responsible for all of this increase, but it's responsible for a bit of it. And I'm not happy about that.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Harvard economics Professor Jason Furman, thank you very much for joining us tonight.

[Jason Furman]

Thank you.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

And coming up, Georgia Democratic Senator Jon Ossoff will join us next.

[Ryan Reynolds]

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[Lawrence O'Donnell]

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[Jason Furman]

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[Ryan Reynolds]

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[Jason Furman]

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[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Today, Senate Democrats released an ad about the Republican Medicaid cuts designed to impact the states where Democrats believe they can win Senate seats. That bill, of course, was signed into law by Donald Trump. The Senate narrowly passed the president's sweeping budget bill proposing huge cuts to Medicaid.

[Jason Furman]

More than 11 million Americans are expected to lose their health care. 200,000 Georgians could lose Medicaid coverage or private insurance.

[Jon Ossoff]

In Michigan, rural hospitals could see their doors close.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

One in four North Carolinians could have.

[Jon Ossoff]

Their health care at risk.

[Jason Furman]

We're talking about the most vulnerable patients.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

In the state, Maine.

[Ryan Reynolds]

This bill is horrible for Alaskans.

[Jon Ossoff]

The bill doesn't just cut health care.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Access, it cuts lifelines. The Georgia Recorder reports this about potential hospital closings in Georgia, quote, According to a report from researchers at the University of North Carolina Chapel Hill, four hospitals in rural Georgia are at risk of reducing services or closing altogether under the MEGA bill. Three of those hospitals are in districts represented by Republican congressmen who voted in favor of the bill. Joining Our discussion now is Democratic Senator Jon Ossoff of Georgia, a member of the Senate Intelligence Committee, the Senate Appropriations Committee and the Senate Rules Committee. He is running for reelection next year in Georgia. Senator Ossoff, thank you very much for joining us tonight. I note that in that Democratic Senate ad, it is aimed at Georgia and other states with important, important Senate races next year for the Democrats, that this apparently is going to be the key to the reelection strategy or the election strategy of some new Democrats. How important will this be to your campaign?

[Jon Ossoff]

Lawrence, thank you for having me. And this is a political disaster for Republicans in Georgia because it is a real life disaster for my constituents. And you know, you reveal your true colors and your true preferences when the rubber meets the road and you pass a multitrillion dollar spending bill and they chose to loot the public treasury, indebted future generations to the tune of trillions of dollars, make healthcare more expensive for the vast majority of Americans, push hospitals and nursing homes toward bankruptcy to pay for tax cuts that mostly benefit the wealthy and well connected. And there is no constituency for this. There is no voting bloc in Georgia that's crying out for more expensive health care so that the rich can pay lower taxes. And it just demonstrates that this fake populist veneer of Trumpism, this pretend concern for working class men and women is a lie. Because when the time came to make policy, trillions of dollars of policy, they have sold out regular people in Georgia and across the country to benefit the wealthy and well connected. And it's corruption in action right there in plain sight.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

So the Republicans wrote this bill so that the Medicaid cuts do not take effect next year before your Senate election. And so you will be running, no doubt against a Republican who will be able to say none of these cuts have happened yet. And so all of this scare talk has been unnecessary.

[Jon Ossoff]

Well, first of all, you mentioned a number of Georgia hospitals. There are as many as 20 Georgia hospitals that are at risk of closure across the state of Georgia. We've already lost nine or 10 in the last 10 years. And their finances, their impact, their prospects, their potential to attract investment and to generate financing is immediately impacted. So the risk to hospitals and nursing homes is here now. Not to mention the failure to renew Affordable Care act benefits means that hundreds of thousands of my constituents are likely to see huge increases in their health insurance premiums next year, not in 2027, not in 2028, but next year. And the public sees this for what it is. It is a giveaway. It is a handout to wealthy political donors paid for with trillions of dollars of debt. That's undermining international confidence in the credit worthiness of the United States and damaging the value of the dollar. And paid for by ripping health care away from working class and middle class families in Georgia and pushing the whole health care system closer and closer to financial insolvency.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

We just saw affordability of just living affordability in New York City become the issue in the mayor's race in New York. How does that work in Georgia? And is there a similar theme to be struck in Georgia?

[Jon Ossoff]

Absolutely. And that is why? Look, the most important thing about this bill is that it is a disaster for human beings, for the health and welfare of human beings. But it is also political malpractice for the Republican Party to gain power and use that power to drive up health care costs for the vast majority of Americans at a time when the cost of living is the number one public concern and especially when it comes to health insurance premiums and the cost of health care.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Georgia Senator John Ossoff, thank you very much for joining us tonight.

[Jon Ossoff]

Thank you, Lawrence.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

And coming up today, Donald Trump said something about Vladimir Putin that he has never said before. That's next. The slowest learner in the history of American government. Donald Trump now appears to have maybe learned that Vladimir Putin maybe doesn't always tell him the truth, saying in today's cabinet meeting, Donald Trump said we're not happy with Putin. I'm not happy with Putin. I can tell you that much right now because he's killing a lot of people and a lot of them are his soldiers. His soldiers and their soldiers. Mostly we get a lot of bullcrap thrown at us by Putin for you want to know the truth? He's very nice all the time, but it turns out to be meaningless. Joining us now is Michael McFaul, who served as the United States ambassador to Russia during President Obama's administration. He's an MSNBC international affairs analyst. And Ambassador McFaul, I know as a diplomat you must be cheered by Donald Trump finally sharing at least some of your view of Donald Trump today. Well, you're right.

[Ryan Reynolds]

This is the first time he's been this critical of Vladimir Putin using even words we don't want to say on this show. Lawrence, that's extraordinary. That will get President Putin attention for sure. He has very thin skin himself, so he'll react to this. The real question, of course, is, well, what are you going to do about it? President Trump, you've been annoyed with Putin before. You've threatened sanctions, and yet it never translates into a policy pivot. And the old strategy's not working. Throwing everything to Putin, giving him concessions, has not achieved the outcome that he wants just to end this war. It's now time for Plan B. Will he actually do it? I have to say I hope he does, but I fear he won't.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Donald Trump was a much poorer man, I mean, financially, during his first presidency. And he may have seen then in Vladimir Putin his future as the big Trump Tower guy in Moscow and all of that. Donald Trump's finances don't need Vladimir Putin anymore, now that he can just get out there in digital currency markets and all of the stuff that he's been doing. And that may very well be a factor in his regard for Putin at this point. But he did say again today he's thinking about the sanctions bill that Lindsey Graham is pushing in the Senate. So it's one of those moments where he's saying what you want him to say, and it's just a question of, as you say, what happens next.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Exactly. And he's said this before. He's talked about sanctions before. Thankfully, he stopped the pause of his own government, as you rightly pointed out, the beginning, your program that allegedly he didn't even know about that suggests to me that the National Security Council at the White House is not doing its job. But now it's his moment. If he wants to get Putin's attention, he should endorse that Senate Senator Lindsey Graham's bill and increase sanctions. And he shouldn't just extend the Biden military assistance. That's what he pledged to do today. He should say, we're going to be in it for as long as it takes. And that would actually get Vladimir Putin's attention.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Former Ambassador Michael McFaul, thank you very much for joining our discussion tonight. Thank you. We'll be right back. Former Ambassador to Russia Michael McFaul gets tonight's last word.

[Ryan Reynolds]

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[Lawrence O'Donnell]

It can be pretty stressful.

[Ryan Reynolds]

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