Lawrence: Trump humiliates himself by backing down again and again

Summary

Summary of "Lawrence: Trump Humiliates Himself by Backing Down Again and Again"

Podcast Information:

• Title: The Last Word with Lawrence O’Donnell
• Host: Lawrence O'Donnell, MSNBC
• Episode Title: Lawrence: Trump humiliates himself by backing down again and again
• Release Date: March 7, 2025

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I. Introduction and Overview

In this episode of "The Last Word with Lawrence O’Donnell," host Lawrence O'Donnell delves into the tumultuous political landscape shaped by former President Donald Trump's persistent yet ultimately faltering attempts to impose tariffs on Canada and Mexico. Drawing from his extensive experience in politics and media, O'Donnell provides a critical analysis of Trump's actions and their broader implications for U.S. economic and international relations.

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II. Trump’s Tariff Strategy and Economic Implications

Rachel Maddow's Analysis: Rachel Maddow leads the discussion by highlighting Donald Trump's repeated backtracking on his tariff proposals, emphasizing the negative impact on the U.S. economy and international relations.

• Tariffs on American Cars: Maddow criticizes Trump's tariffs on American-manufactured cars, which predominantly cross Canadian and Mexican borders during production. She states, "Donald Trump's illegal and irrational tariff scheme would have added $20,000 to the price of a Dodge Ram pickup truck" ([02:06]).

• Stock Market Reaction: The episode underscores the adverse reaction of the stock market to Trump's tariff announcements. Maddow remarks, "The crashing stock market yesterday in effect ordered Donald Trump to drop his illegal and economically illiterate tariff scheme" ([02:06]).

• Historical Context: Maddow draws parallels to the Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act of the 1930s, noting its role in exacerbating the Great Depression. She warns that Trump's tariffs could have similar devastating effects: "Those tariffs were not President Herbert Hoover's idea, but he did sign them into law. And that went a long way to making him a one-term president" ([02:06]).

Lawrence O'Donnell’s Commentary: O'Donnell shares a personal anecdote to illustrate the close yet strained relationship between the U.S. and Canada, setting the stage for the discussion on tariffs and trade relations.

• Personal Connection: "I could still remember going to visit my uncles in Canada when I was a little kid... we are very, very close countries divided at this point by an ethical government" ([01:17]).

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III. U.S.-Canada Relations Under Strain

Ambassador Bob Ray’s Perspective: Canadian Ambassador to the United Nations, Ambassador Bob Ray, provides insight into Canada's response to Trump's tariff threats.

• Canada’s Resilience: Ray asserts Canada's determination to uphold fair trade practices, despite the pressures from the U.S. He states, "We are going to continue to work with the administration to try to figure out what is it about this agreement that he now finds so offensive" ([12:48]).

• Impact on the Economy: Highlighting the economic interdependence, Ray explains, "We have resources of all kinds. We have manufacturing all across the country and it will affect American customers" ([17:07]).

• Call for Fair Negotiations: Ray emphasizes the need for honest and fair negotiations, aiming to preserve Canada's autonomy without resorting to conflict: "We want to remain an independent country... We want to settle this in a peaceful way, but we are not going to be taken advantage of" ([17:07], [20:48]).

Critical Moments:

• Prime Minister Trudeau's Stance: Ray references Prime Minister Trudeau's firm stance against Trump's tariffs, noting the internal pressure within Canada and its potential effects on the market: "We have a highly decentralized federal federation... frustration is shared across party lines" ([17:07]).

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IV. Legal Challenges and Constitutional Concerns

Wall Street Journal’s Editorial: The episode references a Wall Street Journal editorial that deems Trump's tariffs as illegal, citing the misuse of the 1977 International Emergency Powers Act.

• Legal Deficiencies: The editorial points out that there is no legitimate emergency justifying Trump's tariff imposition, contrasting it with President Biden's targeted sanctions against Russia: "The Wall Street Journal notes that Donald Trump is invoking the 1977 International Emergency Powers act to justify his tariffs on Canada. But there is nothing in that law that specifically authorizes the President to impose tariffs in that kind of emergency" ([10:00]).

• Potential Legal Challenges: The editorial emphasizes that Trump's tariffs cannot withstand legal scrutiny: "The Wall Street Journal editorial notes that the Trump tariffs against Canada could not survive a legal challenge" ([10:00]).

Judicial Rebuke: Federal Judge Beryl Howell and Judge John McConnell criticize Trump's administration for overstepping constitutional boundaries.

• Presidential Limits: Judge Howell asserts, "An American president is not a king. Not even an elected one..." ([30:18]).

• Constitutional Balance: Judge McConnell states, "The executive's categorical freeze of appropriated and obligated funds fundamentally undermines the distinct constitutional roles of each branch of our government" ([30:18]).

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V. Corruption and Power Consolidation in the Trump-Musk Administration

Rachel Maddow’s Investigation: Maddow explores the alleged corruption within the Trump-Musk administration, highlighting unprecedented levels of cronyism and abuse of power.

• Department of Government Efficiency: Maddow brings attention to the newly created Department of Government Efficiency, led by Elon Musk, suggesting conflicts of interest: "I have created the brand new Department of government efficiency... headed by Elon Musk" ([31:50]).

• Elon Musk’s Influence: She critiques the intertwining of Musk’s business interests with government operations, implying a breach of ethical standards: "The richest man in the world who spent a quarter of a billion dollars to elect this president, has now been given the keys to the kingdom" ([32:17]).

Senator Jon Ossoff’s Perspective: Senator Jon Ossoff discusses the dangers of corruption and the erosion of democratic principles under Trump’s leadership.

• Threat to Democracy: Ossoff warns of the administration's efforts to expand presidential power and destabilize constitutional order: "We've suspended enforcement of the law that bans the bribery of foreign officials... protect citizens and businesses from paying tribute" ([32:41]).

• Electoral Manipulation: He highlights the challenges faced by Democrats due to Musk and Trump's financial influence in elections: "I'm facing down any number of limitlessly wealthy people who will stop at nothing to defeat and destroy me" ([34:02]).

Trump’s Response: Donald Trump vehemently defends his administration's actions, dismissing allegations of corruption and emphasizing his commitment to winning the 2026 reelection cycle.

• Defense of Actions: Trump claims his administration aims to "dramatically shrink the federal government" and accuses Republicans of abdicating their responsibilities: "Historians are going to fill books about the total abdication by this Republican Congress" ([35:36]).

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VI. Medicaid Cuts and Their Human Impact

Impact Testimonies: The latter part of the episode shifts focus to the proposed Republican cuts to Medicaid, underscoring the dire consequences for vulnerable populations.

• Personal Stories: Testimonies from individuals like Chris Dunham, whose son relies on Medicaid, illustrate the human cost of budget cuts: "Medicaid is nothing short of a lifeline for us... these cuts would have devastating consequences" ([38:08]).

• Representative Robin Kelly’s Advocacy: Kelly emphasizes the broad impact of Medicaid beyond poverty, highlighting coverage statistics and the essential nature of these services: "50% of births are covered by Medicaid... Women will lose their lives if we have to cut Medicaid" ([41:58]).

Legislative Efforts: Kelly discusses the Democratic strategy to counteract Republican budget cuts through hearings and public advocacy, aiming to inform and rally public support.

• Public Education: Kelly states, "We are trying to educate the public and get the word out... real people who the Republicans refuse to admit exist" ([42:56]).

• Future Projections: She anticipates further legislative battles as Democrats expose the true extent of Medicaid cuts and their impact: "We will see specifically what they cut from Medicare and that will be massive" ([43:26]).

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VII. Conclusion and Forward Look

Lawrence O'Donnell wraps up the episode by reaffirming the critical issues discussed, emphasizing the need for informed public discourse and legislative accountability. The episode serves as a comprehensive examination of Trump's tariff policies, the resulting economic and international fallout, corruption concerns within the administration, and the human toll of proposed Medicaid cuts.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Rachel Maddow ([02:06]):

  "Donald Trump's illegal and irrational tariff scheme would have added $20,000 to the price of a Dodge Ram pickup truck."

• Lawrence O'Donnell ([01:17]):

  "We are very, very close countries divided at this point by an ethical government."

• Ambassador Bob Ray ([17:07]):

  "We have resources of all kinds. We have manufacturing all across the country and it will affect American customers."

• Judge Beryl Howell ([30:18]):

  "An American president is not a king. Not even an elected one."

• Rachel Maddow ([32:17]):

  "Elon Musk is in the gallery tonight."

• Senator Jon Ossoff ([34:02]):

  "I'm facing down any number of limitlessly wealthy people who will stop at nothing to defeat and destroy me."

• Representative Robin Kelly ([41:58]):

  "50% of births are covered by Medicaid... Women will lose their lives if we have to cut Medicaid."

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This episode of "The Last Word with Lawrence O’Donnell" provides a thorough and critical examination of Donald Trump's policies and their far-reaching consequences, offering listeners a nuanced understanding of current political and economic challenges.

Transcript

[Alex Wagner]

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[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Time for the Last Word with Lawrence O'Donnell. Good evening, Lawrence. Happy Friday Eve.

[Rachel Maddow]

Yeah, my Friday. Yeah, well, this is actually my Friday, you know, you know, in Vegas, Rachel, where people are on, you know, weird work schedules, one of the phrases you can hear on Tuesday is this is my Friday, you know, Wednesday. This is my Friday. So, yeah, welcome to my Friday. This is. We have Ambassador Bob Ray, Canadian ambassador to the United nations, joining us tonight for the view from the north. I will, I'll see if I can make this trade war any worse by what happens here in the next hour. We'll see.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

I could still remember going to visit my uncles in Canada when I was a little kid and seeing my mom for the only time in my life I've ever seen this, seeing my mom carrying two handles of whiskey with her as we were getting there to bring them what they wanted. And yeah, this, we are very, very close countries divided at this point by an ethical government. And I'll be very interested to hear what he has to say.

[Rachel Maddow]

We happen to be the country that has the best possible neighboring country on the planet, Canada. And that's the one you aim at.

[Ambassador Bob Ray]

Yeah.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

As Justin Trudeau said this week, make it make sense. Yeah, exactly.

[Rachel Maddow]

We will try. Thank you, Rachel. Thank you. Well, today, Donald Trump backed down again. Donald Trump backed down again. And that came 24 hours after the last time Donald Trump backed down on the same subject, his illegal tariffs on imports from Canada and Mexico. Once again today, Donald Trump's boss told him what to do and he did it. Donald Trump's boss is, of course, the stock market. The crashing stock market yesterday in effect ordered Donald Trump to drop his illegal and economically illiterate tariff scheme against Canada and Mexico. And so Donald Trump dropped the stupidest part of his stupid idea yesterday. The tariffs on American cars that are actually manufactured largely in the United States, but in the course of their manufacture, they crossed the borders of Canada and Mexico more than once before that finished car or truck ends up in your local showroom here in the United States. Donald Trump's illegal and irrational tariff scheme would have added $20,000 to the price of a Dodge Ram pickup truck. It would be the single biggest inflationary act ever committed knowingly by a President of the United States. Raising prices by 25%. By a Trump edict, it is an order in effect, to raise prices. The stock market rightly panicked over that prospect, which includes predictions not just of a Trump recession, but in the Wall Street Journal predictions of a Great Depression caused by Donald Trump's tariffs, the misguided tariff scheme pushed into law a hundred years ago by Republican Senator Smooth and Republican Congressman Hawley. These Smoot Hawley tariffs were the proximate cause of America's Great depression of the 1930s. Those tariffs were not President Herbert Hoover's idea, but he did sign them into law. And that went a long way to making him a one term president, driven out of office by the Governor of New York, Franklin Delano Roosevelt, who then led the country out of the Republican created depression. With the stock market crashing again today, Donald Trump announced that hewhat he lyingly called a pause, a pause of the implementation of some of his illegal tariffs against Canada and Mexico for one month, his standard pause period. That is the second month of pausing Donald Trump has done with his own disastrously bad idea. And when Donald Trump has an idea that he really believes in, like closing down all humanitarian assistance by the government of the United States anywhere in the world, he does it immediately. Take food out of the mouths of starving babies in the middle of a famine in Sudan. Donald Trump does that on the spot. No pause. Donald Trump has issued no pause in Elon Musk's complete destruction of the United States Agency for International Development, which among other things, is the biggest feeder of starving babies and famine in the world. The biggest feeder of starving people of all ages in the world. There was no pause in what Elon Musk desperately wanted to do to those starving children. No pause at all. Because Donald Trump and Elon Musk firmly believe that we must never feed the starving children of the world. Never. And Donald Trump and Elon Musk don't even have to think about it. And they know that the stock market doesn't care about starving babies in Sudan or anywhere else on the planet. And so we know just how much Donald Trump does not pause, never pauses when he confidently launches into a Trump idea, no matter how cruel, vicious, and unprecedented that idea is. Like taking HIV medication away from people whose lives depend on that. Elon Musk and Donald Trump did that without hesitation, without pause. So when Donald Trump pauses for 30 days, that's Donald Trump publicly confessing, this is such a bad idea. Even I can't do it in the middle of a stock market crash. Today, Donald Trump's treasury secretary appeared in the city that houses the stock market, a city where a dozen eggs now cost $10. And he said, and I quote, I'm not worried about inflation. After the first Trump presidency, I thought it was going to be difficult to find a Treasury Secretary more ill suited to the job than Donald Trump's first Treasury secretary. But he's done it. He's done it again. With inflation up, with Donald Trump threatening the most inflationary tariffs in history, and with eggs going over $10 a dozen in the city where he was speaking today, Treasury Secretary Scott Bessant said, I'm not worried about inflation. Imagine. Imagine if Joe Biden's treasury secretary had ever said under any circumstances, I'm not worried about inflation. When eggs were half the price that they are today and less than that. Donald Trump's treasury secretary also said today in New York City, in a failed attempt to defend the Trump tariffs. Quote, access to cheap goods is not the essence of the American dream. Again, imagine Joe Biden or any Biden administration official had ever said, low prices aren't a big deal. Who cares about low prices? That's what Donald Trump's ultra rich treasury secretary said today in New York City. Meanwhile, in the Oval Office, Donald Trump proved once again that no one has the power to humiliate Donald Trump quite like Donald Trump.

[Donald Trump]

Have you been influenced some of these exemptions that have been announced and some of these temporary delays? Have you been influenced in those decisions because of the market reaction?

[Scott Bessant]

Well, there are no delays at all. No, nothing to do with the market. I'm not even looking at the market.

[Rachel Maddow]

I'm not even looking at the market. Donald Trump said that Donald Trump, the president most obsessed with the stock market in presidential history, tells you the lie right to your face. I'm not even looking at the market. The market is Donald Trump's boss. If you watch the stock market during Donald Trump's tariff games, you know exactly what's going to happen next. Here's Donald Trump humiliating today's Donald Trump who told the lie. I'm not even looking at the market.

[Scott Bessant]

So I won the election. The markets went up thousands of points. Things started happening. You started doing things that you would have never. Even though I didn't get sworn in until January 20, but they refused to do that. And let me tell you, if for some reason I wouldn't have won the election, these markets would have crashed.

[Rachel Maddow]

And here's Donald Trump three weeks ago humiliating Donald Trump today.

[Scott Bessant]

I think the stock market's going to be great. In other words, we will rapidly grow our economy by dramatically shrinking the federal government. We have to do it.

[Rachel Maddow]

Yeah, he doesn't care about the market. In an editorial today, the Wall Street Journal picked up on a point that I made here last night in some detail, that the Trump tariffs are in fact illegal. The Journal notes that Donald Trump is invoking the 1977 International Emergency Powers act to justify his tariffs on Canada. But the Journal points out there is nothing happening with Canada that meets the legal definition of an emergency. And there is nothing in that law that specifically authorizes the President to impose tariffs in that kind of emergency. The Wall Street Journal notes presidents have used the law to freeze assets of foreign governments and nationals, restrict US Companies from doing business with them, limit export of technologies and ban imports from adversaries. In March 2022, President Biden used the law to ban imports of Russian energy, seafood and alcoholic beverages, but notably not to impose tariffs. The Wall Street Journal editorial notes that the Trump tariffs against Canada could not survive a legal challenge. There is pre existing law governing trade among the United States and Canada, United States and Mexico. It is the rewritten version of the North American Free Trade Agreement that Donald Trump himself and his team negotiated and signed with Prime Minister Trudeau during the first Trump presidency and with the President of Mexico, which Donald Trump then called the greatest trade deal in history.

[Scott Bessant]

For the first time in American history, we have replaced a disastrous trade deal that rewarded outsourcing with a truly fair and reciprocal trade deal that will keep jobs, wealth and growth right here in America. And in a true sense, it's also a partnership with Mexico and Canada and ourselves against the world. It's really a trade partnership, if you look at it that way. And it's a day of great celebration in all three countries.

[Rachel Maddow]

So the President, who claims to have negotiated the greatest trade deal in history, now believes that is a terrible trade deal, and he and he alone has decided to violate his own trade deal himself. Leading off our discussion tonight, it is an honour to be joined by Canada's Ambassador to the United Nations, Ambassador Pabray. He's also the President of the Economic and Social council for the 2025 session of the United Nations. Ambassador Wray, thank you very much for joining us tonight. Really appreciate it.

[Ambassador Bob Ray]

Thank you, Laura. It's good to be with you.

[Rachel Maddow]

So you negotiated a trade deal, a rewrite of the north of nafta. And by the way, that kind of trade deal should be rewritten every decade, couple of decades or so. Everybody understands that it was a good time to do it. We knew a lot more about trade among these countries, and it really did seem to be an improvement. I thought it was an improvement. It should be an improvement. Now, the guy you negotiated with violates the trade deal he negotiated with you. What can you possibly do next with someone who behaves like that?

[Ambassador Bob Ray]

Well, first of all, we're a resilient people, resilient country. So are the Mexicans. We're working with great determination. I think you had part of the Prime Minister's speech yesterday. It's a remarkable time. The Prime Minister is going to be stepping down soon from his post. There'll be a new newly elected leader of the Liberal Party, which is the government in power at the moment, on Sunday. So this is really Prime Minister Trudeau's last period in office. And I think his speech yesterday, he showed enormous determination and clarity. And in a speech that, you know, he gave and was him speaking to the Canadian people and speaking directly to the President, he indicated that this approach that the President is taking is wrong. It is illegal, and it's also just wrong because it adds costs and prices to everybody in an economy on both sides of the border, in fact, all sides of the border, that has brought huge benefit to our country and to the United States. And it is possible to have a trade agreement that actually allows everyone to do better. And that's what we've discovered and we've worked at it since the 1980s. So we are going to continue to work with the administration to try to figure out what is it about this agreement that he now finds so offensive, but also to understand that, you know, this is the time for renegotiation is a year from now. 2026 was the. Is the statutory time, the time in law when we're supposed to renegotiate the agreement. And we are ready to sit down at any table and negotiate. But we do need to create some sense of certainty and fairness in terms of how we all treat each other. And that, I think, is what's been lost. The statements the President's made about the 51st state, the references to Mr. Trudeau as the Governor of Canada, these are not a joke. They never were a joke for me. I always thought they were deeply offensive and really strike at the heart of what it means to be a Canadian in this world. And I think a lot of people in Canada are just, are stunned and then angry. And I think you're seeing that in the streets of Canada today. You're seeing a sense of deep frustration and deep anger. But I think the governments of Canada are going to continue to negotiate in good faith with the United States. And if it means going to a dispute settlement mechanism or to challenging the law in court, if that's what it takes, or we have to do that, that's, of course, something we can do. But I think above all, what we want to do is reach a fair and reasonable negotiation with the president and with his team. And that's something that we're still very willing to do.

[Rachel Maddow]

You know, my reading of the market yesterday, and I'm not. No, I, you know, reading of the market is always guessing.

[Ambassador Bob Ray]

Yeah, a little too, a little tricky.

[Rachel Maddow]

You get to me what when things got really serious in the stock market, when Prime Minister Trudeau spoke because the market hadn't heard from him, they knew the Trump game. They'd been through the Trump game before. They didn't believe Trump. They didn't believe Trump when he threatened the tariffs the first time around. And then he paused them, you know, for a month. And they would. They never expected him to impose these tariffs. They expected another pause. And then they went forward. And then they heard from Canada, and they heard a firmness from the prime minister that was clear and solid and strong and determined. And that's when the market said, oh, this is real. Canada's going to fight back. And Canada has very strong ammunition here.

[Ambassador Bob Ray]

Well, I mean, first of all, it is the prime minister leading the country, but it's also all the premiers working at the provincial level. And we have a highly decentralized federal federation where the premiers, I was a premier one time many years ago. And so there's a lot of power in the provinces to do stuff as well. And there's a lot of frustration. And it's shared not only geographically across the board in Canada, but it's shared across party lines. We have representatives of several different parties.

[Rachel Maddow]

This has been unified.

[Ambassador Bob Ray]

This has been an incredibly, I wouldn't just say unifying, I would say galvanizing. This is something that is galvanizing our country with enormous determination. And so what the prime minister has announced is a series of steps. You do this, we'll do this. And that's painful to do because it hurts us as much as it hurts the people who are being affected. But more importantly, I think the issue for us now is how do we get this thing back on track. What is it that's really behind it? It doesn't seem to be the fentanyl because Canada's not a huge source of fentanyl. We all agree that we have to take steps to reinforce the border that's happening everywhere. And we understand the need to do that. And that's being done. So what is this really about? And it's the sense that this is such a moving target that the Prime Minister I felt, I think he felt, well, we just have to do what we're going to do and we have to get some clarity from the American government as to what is it going to take for you to understand that we don't, we don't accept this. And we have cars and integrated industries you've described. We have resources of all kinds. We have manufacturing all across the country and it will affect American customers. Potash, for example. We have farmers in the United States in the Midwest. Planting season, I know it doesn't feel like it today, but planting season is coming and when it comes, they're going to need a lot of potash. They're going to need a ton of potash. And we have it and we supply it every year reliably and on good economic terms with no taxes and no tariffs. And the President of the United States is saying, well, there's going to be a tariff on that. I think these are all things that don't make a lot of sense to us. But we're still good faith people. We want to be in a good partnership and we value the partnership with the United States a great deal. I mean, I grew up in Washington, D.C. and so I know this country pretty well. And I just, I think what's happening is just not right. And I think there's a lot of Canadians who feel the same way and who feel very, very strongly that we've got to find a way to fix this. And we're ready 24 hours to pick up the phone anytime and just sit down and figure out what is it going to take to get us to a longer term negotiating table for 20, 26. But let's take the uncertainty out of everything. It's not just markets. The most important market is the job market. And it's jobs. It's jobs for people, it's prices for people, and it's these things that create enormous uncertainty and unfairness for citizens on both sides of the border. We should stop this. And we can stop it. We can stop it.

[Rachel Maddow]

Businesses trying to do hiring and hiring planning in environments like this cannot do it. They don't know what the conditions are going to be 30 days from now.

[Ambassador Bob Ray]

Well, that's the situation with the 30 days. And the reason that, that even that is troublesome is because. And he knows this. The president knows this. He's an investor.

[Rachel Maddow]

Are you sure?

[Ambassador Bob Ray]

Yes, I'm positive. He's an investor. He's a smartest.

[Rachel Maddow]

He's ignorant of a lot.

[Ambassador Bob Ray]

I'm not going to use those words, Lawrence. You're going to.

[Rachel Maddow]

I know you're not.

[Ambassador Bob Ray]

You're going to get me deeper into the, to the mire than I'm going.

[Rachel Maddow]

To lean back here.

[Ambassador Bob Ray]

Please proceed. I just want to say that, you know, you can't make an investment decision if you don't know what, what the tax regime is. You don't know what the tariff regime is. But you know what? The President knows that. And what troubles Canadians the most, I think, is what he's. It looks like what he's trying to do is really weaken our economy as much as he can and use economic force to weaken us. And we're not going to take that lying down. We see that happening. We don't like it. We don't want it to happen. We don't want to be at the 51st state. We want to remain an independent country. We're very proud to be Canadians. We think we have a lot to be proud of, both in our health care plans and the steps that we've taken to create a different kind of country north of the border that shares a lot of values and a lot of things with the United States, but still wants to be itself in the world, just like you wanted to be yourself in the world in 1775. That's what we want. We want to do it without a revolution, and we want to do it without coming to any kind of conflict. We want to settle this in a peaceful way, but we're not going to be taken advantage of. And there's a hockey expression we use, which is elbows up, elbows up. And there's a lot of that going on in Canada today. Elbows up. Let's keep sharp here.

[Rachel Maddow]

Elbows up. Ambassador Bob Ray cannot thank you enough for joining us tonight. And please make sure Canada knows we here in the United States could not be more grateful for having the best possible neighboring country we could have to our.

[Ambassador Bob Ray]

Well, frankly, we feel the same way. I mean, we have had such a great relationship over so many decades, and really, ever since, you know, wars ended and people figured out how to live together, we've been trading with each other. We've been marrying each other, we've been living with each other side by side, cheek by cheek. It's crazy for us to be having this fight and we want to end it, but it does require the moving target has to sit still for a while and we have to find out how we can settle this thing. And I hope we can.

[Rachel Maddow]

Ambassador Wray, thank you so much.

[Ambassador Bob Ray]

Thank you. Great to be with you.

[Rachel Maddow]

And coming up this week, a senator rose in the French Senate in Paris to speak in French about Donald Trump and Elon Musk. We will get United states Senator Jon Ossoff's reaction to that next.

[Alex Wagner]

Its President Trump's first 100 days. And MSNBC's Alex Wagner will be covering it all from the front lines. What issue matters to you the most? Join her as she travels the country to talk to the people at the center of the president's policies and promises.

[Ambassador Bob Ray]

Do you think now that he's pardoned.

[Rachel Maddow]

Everybody, he can count on this group of people again?

[Alex Wagner]

Search for Trumpland with Alex Wagner wherever you're listening and follow subscribe to MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen ad free. Stay up to date on the biggest issues of the day with the MSNBC Daily Newsletter. Each morning you'll get analysis by experts you trust, video highlights from your favorite shows.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

I do think it's worth being very clear eyed, very realistic about what's going on here.

[Alex Wagner]

Previews of our podcasts and documentaries, plus written perspectives from the newsmakers themselves, all sent directly to your inbox each morning. Get the best of MSNBC all in one place. Sign up for msnbc [e-mail] MSNBC presents a new original podcast hosted by Jen Psaki. Each week she and her guests explore how the Democratic Party is facing this political moment and where it's headed next.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

There's probably both messaging and policy issues.

[Rachel Maddow]

But as you look to kind of where the Democratic Party is, do you.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Think it's more a messaging issue, more a policy issue?

[Alex Wagner]

The Blueprint with Jen Psaki. Subscribe to MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts for ad free listening and bonus content.

[Rachel Maddow]

America's oldest ally, the only one who was with us during the Revolutionary War against the British is France. America's oldest ally knows that with Donald Trump as president of the United States, there is really no such thing as an ally of the United States, especially when Donald Trump is willing to start a trade war with the best neighboring country in the world, Canada, who is an ally. French Senator Claude Mulhaura said Trump's message is that there is no point in being his ally since he will not defend you. He will impose higher tariffs on you than on his enemies and will threaten to seize your territories while supporting the dictatorships that invade you. Never in history has a US President capitulated to the enemy. Never has any one of them supported an aggressor against an ally. In one month, Trump has done more harm to America than in four years of his last presidency. We were at war with a dictator. Now we are fighting a dictator backed by a traitor. That is the French view of Donald Trump becoming the first president in history to change sides in a war, switching the United States from support of Ukraine to support of war criminal Vladimir Putin's murderous invasion of Ukraine. Senator Malhoure said this Washington LA function. For those of you listening on Sirius Radio who couldn't read the subtitles, Senator Melhorre said Europe is at a critical turning point in its history. The American shield is slipping. Ukraine risks being abandoned, Russia strengthened. Washington has become the court of Nero, an incendiary emperor, submissive courtiers and a jester high on ketamine in charge of purging the civil service. Joining our discussion now is Senator Jon Ossoff of Georgia. He's a member of the Senate Appropriations Committee and the Senate Intelligence Committee. Senator, thank you very much for joining us tonight. We are the world has been reeling since that scene in the Oval Office with Donald Trump and J.D. vance attacking President Zelensky. We heard some of the French view there tonight. What does it mean in the world? What do you think it means in the world now to be an ally of the United States with Donald Trump as President?

[Donald Trump]

Lawrence, good evening and thank you for having me back on the show. And since that despicable spectacle in the Oval Office with the president and the vice president attempting to publicly humiliate a wartime leader who is seeking to defend his own nation from brutal Russian aggression. And now as we see the United States withholding vital support from Ukraine, exercising brutal leverage over Ukraine that puts Ukrainian service members and civilians lives at risk, all while there's seemingly no meaningful pressure on Moscow. It leads to the alarm here and abroad that the White House, given its affinity for the Kremlin, is seeking to rush toward a settlement of this conflict on the Kremlin's terms, which may result in Ukraine being a vassal state of Russia and may invite Russia to regress and to continue seeking influence and territory in Eastern Europe.

[Rachel Maddow]

Senator, we'd like to squeeze in a commercial break here and keep you across that break because I also want to get into the ever expanding corruption opportunities that now exist in this Trump Musk government. We'll get to that when we come back after this break.

[Alex Wagner]

The last thing you want to hear when you need your auto insurance most is a robot with countless irrelevant menu options. Which is why with USAA auto insurance, you'll get great service that is easy and reliable, all at the touch of a button. Get a quote today. Restrictions apply. Stay connected with the MSNBC app. Watch your favorite shows live, read live blogs and in depth essays and listen to coverage as it unfolds. Visit msnbc.comapp to download the first 100 days bills are passed, executive orders are signed and presidencies are defined. And for Donald Trump's first 100 days, Rachel Maddow is on MSNBC five nights a week.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Now is the time, so we're gonna.

[Alex Wagner]

Do it, providing her unique insight and analysis during this critical time.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

How do we how do we strategically align ourselves to this moment of information, this moment of transition in our country?

[Alex Wagner]

The Rachel Maddow show, weeknights at 9pm Eastern on MSNBC.

[Rachel Maddow]

An American president is not a king. You would think that in the third century of American government, a federal judge would not have to write that sentence, but that is what federal Judge Beryl Howell wrote Today in a 36 page opinion rebuking Donald Trump's firing of Gwen Wilcox from the National Labor Relations Board as unlawful and void. The judge wrote, an American president is not a king, not even an elected one, and his power to remove federal officers and honest civil servants like plaintiff is not absolute, but may be constrained in appropriate circumstances as are present here. Today. In Rhode Island, a Federal judge, John McConnell, ruled against Donald Trump's administration, freezing funding authorized by Congress and already obligated, writing the executive's categorical freeze of appropriated and obligated funds fundamentally undermines the distinct constitutional roles of each branch of our government. The interaction of the three CO/ of government is an intricate, delicate and sophisticated balance, but it is crucial to our form of constitutional governance, something everyone learned in high school. In court. The Trump Justice Department has defended the unprecedented actions of Elon Musk against lawsuits by claiming that Musk's activities are legal, insisting that Elon Musk is in charge of nothing and has no power at all. The Trump lawyers have told judges, in effect under oath in court, that Elon Musk is just an advisor to Donald Trump, but Donald Trump himself destroyed that position on Tuesday night.

[Scott Bessant]

I have created the brand new Department of government efficiency. GoJ, perhaps you've heard of which is headed by Elon Musk, who is in the gallery tonight.

[Rachel Maddow]

Senator John Ossoff is back with us. And Senator, as you know, lawyers for plaintiffs in these cases have already updated their filing, saying, quoting what Donald Trump just said there about Elon Musk really being in charge. But the potential and the reality of corruption in the Trump Musk regime is like nothing we've ever seen before.

[Donald Trump]

This must be the most pro corruption administration in the history of the republic. And just pause and reflect for a moment on the fact that the richest man in the world who spent a quarter of a billion dollars to elect this president, has now been given the keys to the kingdom. The conflicts and cronyism for Trump and Musk and everybody all the way down are stunning. They have suspended enforcement of the law that bans the bribery of foreign officials. They've purged independent inspectors general across the federal government. All of this while intentionally destabilizing our constitutional order through this radical effort to expand the power of the presidency. And when these kinds of things happen in societies, governments can begin to look more like a protection racket where citizens and businesses have to pay tribute and avoid criticism or face retaliation.

[Rachel Maddow]

You're going to be running in this reelection cycle. Now, Elon Musk is out there, and the way for him to help Donald Trump with his money is to take all that money that he used to elect Donald Trump and use it to defeat you and other Democrats running for Senate. It's a tough, tough state for you to win. Georgia, are you ready to deal with what's going to be coming at you from Elon Musk and Donald Trump?

[Donald Trump]

Oh, I'm ready. But I'm going to need help from grassroots supporters. And this is the Citizens United decision, finally having reached its ultimate, most dangerous conclusion, where there's this armada of billionaires who, on behalf of the President of the United States, are enforcing Republican Party discipline by threatening primaries against any defectors from within the GOP ranks. And then here I am, the only incumbent Democrat running for reelection in a state Trump won, facing down any number of limitlessly wealthy people who will stop at nothing to defeat and destroy me. And I'm asking for the people's help to ensure I win this 2026 reelection fight in a landslide. The only path back from this, folks, is to regain congressional power. We need a winner's mindset. We need to prepare for landslide victory. And I'm asking you to help [e-mail] elect jon.com you know, I wasn't trying.

[Rachel Maddow]

To turn that into a campaign commercial. But what I'm seeing on the Republican side of the Senate and the House is Republicans who are afraid of doing the most reasonable possible things that are conservative because they are afraid of Elon Musk pouring the money in to primary challengers in the Republican Party who will take that nomination away from them, take their office away from them. And I'm wondering what the fear level is on the Democratic side, knowing that Musk is ready to throw his money at you, against you. In general elections, I have no fear.

[Donald Trump]

Only determination to win, given the stakes and the dangerous trajectory that the Republic's on. But the total capitulation by Republicans in the Senate is an extraordinary thing to see. I mean, I know many of these people, people, and you know, they're my colleagues and I know that they know that what's happening is wrong. But they, they walk onto the Senate floor day after day, some of them look ashamed about it, and they vote aye over and over and over again because they are gripped in the vice of political fear. And historians are going to fill books about the total abdication by this Republican Congress of their independent judgment, their obligations to the Constitution and the nation.

[Rachel Maddow]

Georgia Senator Jon Ossoff, thank you very much for joining our discussion tonight.

[Jon Ossoff]

Thank you.

[Ambassador Bob Ray]

Thank you.

[Rachel Maddow]

Coming up today, House Democrats heard from witnesses about the Republican Medicaid cuts, which the Republicans and the House representatives have already voted for, will hurt people and possibly close down nursing homes. Nursing home residents being kicked out of nursing homes because. Because Medicaid is the single biggest payer of nursing homes in America. That's next. Judging by some of the audience response that I saw, some people learned for the first time last night on this program that the primary payer for nursing homes in America is Medicaid. The massive cuts to Medicaid that Republicans in the House of Representatives have already voted for could result in Medicaid patients being kicked out of nursing homes and those nursing homes being forced to close down. Major providers that provide nursing home care rely pretty much exclusively on Medicaid as one of their primary sources. And so pulling dollars out of the Medicaid program will negatively impact those seniors. Negatively impact those seniors. You might see that negative impact on your local TV news coverage of the oldest people in America being carried out of nursing homes that are closing down. If Don Trump signs those massive Medicaid cuts into law. I also think in North Carolina that 50% of births are covered by Medicaid. When we think about the importance of a healthy start to life, can you just repeat that Secretary Kinsley, one out of two.

[Alex Wagner]

One out of two.

[Rachel Maddow]

50% are covered by Medicaid. That's the former Secretary of North Carolina Health and Human Services, Cody Kinsley testifying to a group of Democratic members of the House of Representatives this morning on the impact of the massive Republican budget cuts to Medicaid, the most important medical program in this country for the beginning of life and the end of life.

[Jon Ossoff]

My name is Chris Dunham and I am a full time caregiver for my 16 year old son Will, who has complex medical needs. Will's here with me today, as is his mom, my wife Maggie. We traveled from Feasterville, just north of Philadelphia because we're gravely concerned about what drastic costs to Medicaid would mean for will. At age 5, he was finally diagnosed with FoxG1 syndrome, a rare genetic disorder that causes global developmental delays, neurological problems and other health issues. Children with children with FOXG1, lovingly called foxes, need round the clock care. The syndrome has a range of severity and Will falls in the middle. His first symptom was cortical visual impairment, followed shortly by cataracts. He doesn't communicate verbally, uses a wheelchair surgically. He's had a feeding tube placed, his cataracts removed and rods implanted in his back to help correct scoliosis. Like many Americans, our household is a delicate balance of juggling schedules, caregiving needs and finances. I recently qualified for a stipend as a live in caregiver through Medicaid. That's made an enormous difference and has enabled us to get mostly out of debt with the exception of our mortgage. We're not wealthy, we're just trying to make it day to day. Medicaid is nothing short of a lifeline for us. With Republicans proposing to slash hundreds of billions of dollars for Medicaid, all to pay for tax cuts for billionaires, our future is now uncertain. These cuts would have devastating consequences for our family. It's also heartbreaking because I've been hopeful that our country was moving forward in recognizing the need to invest in the care economy. The care economy saves lives. Please protect it.

[Rachel Maddow]

Our next guest, Representative Robin Kelly, invited the testimony of another witness, Christina Otero.

[Robin Kelly]

Sadly, William was born with several complications. He's autistic, non verbal and was diagnosed with cerebral palsy and hydrocephalus. He also has a shunt implant. Now that shunt aids, draining excess fluid from his brain. Dr. Paul Farmer once said, if access to health care is considered a human right, who is considered human enough to have that is William, my nephew. Human Enough to have that right. Please don't cut Medicaid.

[Rachel Maddow]

Joining us now is Representative Robin Kelly, Democrat of Illinois. She's the co chair of the Democratic Steering and Policy Committee which held this morning's meeting on the Republican cuts to Medicaid. Thank you very much for joining us, Representative Kelly. You know, one of the, one of the powerful things about this meeting today was that it showed what Medicaid really is. I think some people have an old impression of Medicaid as being something that is beneficial, if at all in their minds only to people living deeply in poverty. And it has many, many, many more wide ranging reaches than that.

[Robin Kelly]

It definitely does. And we showed everyday hard working people that are trying to take care of their families. And the secretary from North Carolina talked about 50% of births that are covered by Medicaid. Nationally, 40% of births are covered by Medicaid. And we just did the postpartum extension from 60 days to a year of postpartum coverage. Women will lose their lives if we have to cut Medicaid and cut those programs just like the children that they spoke about today.

[Rachel Maddow]

You know, people who've been asking Democrats in Congress to do something, I have always felt when you're in the minority and you have extremely limited power, virtually no power in the House of Representatives, on the floor or anywhere else, this is what you can do is hold the kind of hearing that the Republicans refuse to hold and hear from the people who the Republicans refuse to admit exist.

[Robin Kelly]

Def. I mean, we are fighting with one hand behind our back, but we are trying to educate the public and get the word out. It's more than numbers. These are real people that these things are happening to or will happen to. And that's what we want the public to know. And we also want to give the public a voice. I'm glad to see that people are rising up and going to town hall meetings and complaining. But this is what we need them to do. And we feel real stories from real people will help us do that.

[Rachel Maddow]

Yeah, and I've felt that, I think you do too, that as this reconciliation part of the package comes into view and we will see exactly what the dollar amount is and what the specificity is on the Medicaid cuts. And they will be massive. And we will see specifically what they cut from Medicare and that will be massive. We'll see specifically what they cut from Social Security, that there will be a whole new wave coming to Washington walking through those hallways of people protesting exactly that.

[Robin Kelly]

Well, we want people to know also they're lying because they said that no, it's not going to be in the bill. Well, there's no way you can give $4.5 trillion tax cuts to the well off and well connected without cutting deeply into Medicaid, Medicare and Social Security. So they're not telling the public the truth.

[Rachel Maddow]

Representative Robin Kelly, thank you very much for conducting that meeting that you did today. It was hugely informative. And thank you very much for joining us tonight.

[Robin Kelly]

My pleasure.

[Rachel Maddow]

We'll be right back. Congresswoman Robin Kelly gets tonight's last word.

[Jon Ossoff]

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