← The Last Word with Lawrence O’Donnell
The Last Word with Lawrence O’Donnell
Lawrence: Trump is gleefully taking billions from you and everyone in the United States
00:37:42
Tonight on The Last Word: Ontario imposes a 25% tax increase on electricity exports to the U.S. in response to Donald Trump’s trade war. Also, Elon Musk attacks Sen. Mark Kelly’s visit to Ukraine. Plus, a federal judge partially blocks Trump from defunding USAID. And The New York Times reports a Justice Department official was fired after opposing restoring Mel Gibson’s gun rights. Sen. Amy Klobuchar, Sen. Adam Schiff, and Andrew Weissmann join Lawrence O’Donnell.
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- [00:01]
Lawrence O'Donnell
Thumbtack presents the ins and outs of.
- [00:03]
Andrew Weissman
Caring for your home out indecision, overthinking, second guessing every choice you make in.
- [00:11]
Rachel Maddow
Plans and guides that make it easy to get home projects done out beige on beige on beige, and knowing what to do, when to do it and who to hire. Start caring for your home with confidence. Download Thumbtack today.
- [00:28]
Alex Wagner
Subscribe to MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts New episodes of all your favorite MSNBC shows now ad free plus ad free Listening to all of Rachel Maddow's original series, Ultra Bagman and Deja News and all MSNBC original podcasts are available ad free and with bonus content including why is this Happening? Velshi Band Book Club and more. Subscribe to MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts.
- [00:57]
Rachel Maddow
Well, Elon Musk experienced the seventh worst day of his life today. With the stock market crashing on fears of a Donald Trump caused recession, which Wall street is calling the Trump Session. Getting a recession named after you as president is not easy. It usually is not so clear. Not an absolute straight line of causation from presidential policies to a recession. And so no one called any of the recessions of our lifetimes a president recession, a Bush recession or a Reagan recession, or, you know, none of that. They didn't try to do that with the name of any other president during our lifetimes. Of course, there were no recessions under the last three Democratic presidents President Biden, President Obama, President Clinton. Donald Trump has failed miserably in his attempt to blame what even he suggests may be a looming recession on President Biden, who handed Donald Trump the highest performing American economy in history and the highest performing stock market in history. And during the Trump presidency, just these last few weeks, consumer prices have gone up and stock prices have gone down. Way down, CNBC reports. On Friday, Tesla wrapped up a seventh straight week of losses, its longest losing streak since debuting on the NASDAQ in 2010. The stock has fallen every week since CEO Elon Musk went to Washington, D.C. to take on a major role in the second Trump White House. Since peaking at 479.86 on Dec. 17, Tesla shares have lost more than 50% of their value, wiping out upward of $800 billion in market cap. Monday marked the stock's seventh worst day on record. Elon Musk has publicly confessed to using ketamine to get through emotionally difficult times. Donald Trump made the mistake in an interview this weekend that no other president has made. He essentially predicted a recession is coming. Are you expecting a recession this year?
- [03:29]
Donald Trump
I hate to predict Things like that. There is a period of transition because what we're doing is very big.
- [03:37]
Rachel Maddow
I got to tell you, that's the first time I've actually seen the video. The way I do this is I read the Trump transcripts. I don't look at the video. It's even stupider when you see the video. Transition almost sounds like recession. But that's what he meant when he said transition. When a president is asked if he's expecting a recession, the correct answer is no. It's always been no. Every president has known that prior to Donald Trump, there was plenty of talk of a possible recession during President Biden's term, with some economists actually predicting a recession because of President Biden's policies. Not only were those economists and they were reasonable economists, but not only were those economists predictions very wrong, but Joe Biden always said they were wrong. Joe Biden always said there would not be a recession on his watch. Joe Biden always promised no recession. Donald Trump had a chance to fix his failed answer to the are you expecting a recession? Question. And of course, it just got worse. Maria Bartiromo asked you, and you kind of hesitated.
- [04:53]
Donald Trump
I'll tell you what, of course she hesitated.
- [04:57]
Rachel Maddow
Who knows? The guy who claimed to be a business genius and that's why you should elect him president. That guy answers the most important question you can ask him about the economy. He answers it with a who knows? And as soon as the stock market opens up after Donald Trump says that, the stock market panics. And if you ask anyone on Wall street, as the financial networks have been doing in their live coverage of the Trump stock market collapse, why is the stock market collapsing? No one says, who knows? No one. On CNBC today, all day, no one said, who knows? They all say it's the Trump tariffs, which they all believe could lead to now, the Trump session. And the Wall Street Journal has even predicted that the Trump tariffs could lead to a great depression. If Donald Trump announced right now that he is not going to impose any of those tariffs that he has promised to impose, and he will simply stop talking about tariffs, the stock market would rally tomorrow and go through the roof. But Donald Trump is now trying to pretend he doesn't pay any attention to the stock market.
- [06:19]
Donald Trump
So I won the election. The markets went up thousands of points. You have no choice but to vote for me because your 401ks down the tubes. You want to see a market crash. If we lost this election, I think the market would go down the tubes. I think the stock market's going to Be great.
- [06:37]
Rachel Maddow
So that guy. Yeah, he never thinks about the stock market. The truth is Donald Trump doesn't understand the stock market, which is why he never got any richer in the stock market. Donald Trump didn't invest in Microsoft in the early years. He had plenty of money to do it, but he didn't. He didn't invest in anything in their early years and ride any stock up. He didn't invest in Tesla for that matter, or anything else because he doesn't understand anything about investing or the stock market. Apparently, Elon Musk's position as the richest person in the world is based on the value of Tesla stock. The sinking Tesla stock price is not Tesla's only problem. Sales of Tesla in Europe have collapsed. Tesla car sales in Germany fell by 76%, down 24% in the Netherlands, 42% in Sweden, 48% in Norway and Denmark, 45% in France, 55% in Italy, 10% in Spain, 53% in Portugal. In the United States, Tesla sales fell by 6%, with Cybertruck sales down 32%. And on Saturday, a Tesla showroom in Manhattan was shut down after more than 350 protesters gathered outside. Democratic State Senator Brad Hoylem Siegel, who represents the district, told the New York Times that protesters have gathered at that location for weeks, with each weekend's protests drawing a larger crowd than the previous weekends. He told the Times that it is, quote, cathartic for New Yorkers to go to the streets and that it was important for Mr. Musk and Mr. Trump to see that cutting the federal government off at its knees is going to hurt a lot of people. The Washington Post reports, quote, Since President Donald Trump's inauguration, more than a dozen violent or destructive acts have been directed at Tesla facilities, according to court documents, surveillance photographs, police records and local media reports reviewed by the Washington Post. In March, several Tesla Superchargers at a shopping center in Littleton, Massachusetts, were set ablaze. Vandals in Maryland also spray painted no musk onto a Tesla building alongside a swastika like like symbol. In February, a man brandishing an AR style semiautomatic weapon fired at a Tesla storefront in Salem, Oregon. Just a few weeks earlier. Investigators say the same man attacked the same dealership by throwing Molotov cocktails at Tesla vehicles. And through the store window, he caused an estimated $500,000 in damage, according to court documents. Cryptocurrencies had a very bad day on Wall street today. If the United States of America were a big investor in crypto like Donald Trump wants US to be the United States would have lost a lot of money today. But luckily, the Social Security trust funds are not crypto, so the Social Security trust funds did not lose a dime today. On Friday, Donald Trump announced nothing. That kind of seemed like something.
- [09:53]
Donald Trump
I signed an executive order officially creating our strategic bitcoin reserve, and this will be a virtual Fort Knox for digital gold to be housed within the United States Treasury. That's a big thing.
- [10:08]
Rachel Maddow
Nah, it's not a big thing. It's kind of a fake thing. Because the first question you would have is, how is the United States of America going to buy cryptocurrencies? That would be the same thing as the United States buying Tesla stock or any other stock, which the United States of America cannot legally do. Here's what Donald Trump actually said they are going to do.
- [10:32]
Donald Trump
The treasury and Commerce Departments will also explore new pathways to accumulate additional bitcoin holdings for the reserve, provided it's done at no cost to the taxpayers.
- [10:44]
Rachel Maddow
Oh, okay. So that means the treasury will not buy any cryptocurrencies at all. That's like me saying, I'm going to explore new pathways to buy the Boston Celtics. They're for sale, just like cryptocurrencies are for sale. But no matter how many pathways I explore to buy the Boston Celtics, I won't be able to do it. Donald Trump did say one true thing about the United States government and cryptocurrencies. He said the federal government already owns bitcoin, some bitcoin, and that's true. And every bit of cryptocurrency in the possession of the federal government, every bit of it, was seized as part of a criminal prosecution of drug dealers and others, other criminals who own and trade cryptocurrency. The federal government also owns yachts and fancy cars and a lot of other stuff seized in criminal prosecutions of drug dealers. That is the only legal way the federal government can obtain cryptocurrencies. It is not legal for the federal government to buy cryptocurrencies. And so the Trump team will be exploring those pathways and probably never find a legal pathway to obtain crypto other than arresting a lot more drug dealers. According to an affidavit written under oath by Tiffany Flick, who worked at the Social Security Administration for 30 years, most recently as the acting chief of staff to the acting Commissioner of Social Security. Thanks to Elon Musk, Donald Trump could become the first president in history who fails to deliver Social Security benefits, as every president since Franklin Delano Roosevelt has managed to do every day that Social Security has been in operation for the last 85 years. Social Security checks have never been a day late or a dollar short. But now we have no idea what is happening inside the Social Security administration. The 12 page affidavit goes into great detail. This is an under oath statement. Great detail about what has happened at the Social Security Administration in the recent days leading to the conclusion. I am not confident that Department of Government Efficiency associates have the requisite knowledge and training to prevent sensitive information from being inadvertently transferred to bad actors. That is your birth date, your Social Security number and all the information necessary to steal your identity possibly being, quote, inadvertently transferred to bad actors. Elon Musk's team is now running Social Security, including an Acting commissioner, Leland Dudek, who was installed by Donald Trump. The affidavit says Elon Musk's team, none of whom know anything about Social Security and its operations, have access now to everything that Social Security does, everything it has, including the invaluable and previously totally secure enterprise data warehouse, as well as the master beneficiary record. The affidavit says full access to other Social Security Administration data systems might also include write access, which would allow for the changing of data in the system. So Elon Musk's tech team could change the amount of Social Security you might receive next month, including changing it down to zero, or simply delete you from the system. We don't know because we have no idea what Elon Musk is doing inside Social Security. The affidavit says we can no longer be sure, quote, that Social Security Administration programs will continue to function and operate without disruption. That would be the first disruption in the history of Social Security, the oldest, the biggest, the most successful government program in American history. The affidavit says the disruptions Elon Musk could create, quote, could result in benefits, payments not being paid, paid out, or delays in payments. I understand that Department of Government Efficiency associates have been seeking access to the source code to Social Security Administration systems. If granted, I am not confident that such associates have the requisite understanding of Social Security Administration to avoid critical errors that could upend Social Security Administration systems. No one has ever been worried about that before in the 85 year history of Social Security. In a weird Elon Musk interview today on Fox, he said something not completely coherent about Social Security and 8 year olds. Now, what you can be absolutely sure of is that Elon Musk had no idea that Social Security actually does before he took over Social Security anyway pay 8 year olds. He surely had no idea that There are thousands of 8 year olds and 6 year olds and infant babies receiving Social Security because when a parent of children under the age of 18 dies, that child receives survivor benefits from that parent's Social Security account. So, yes, there are Social Security checks going out to the oldest people in America and to the youngest people in America. And every child receiving survivor benefits from Social Security wishes they weren't. Will Elon Musk cut them off next month? We have no idea. But we do know he was very eager to stop food shipments from the United States Agency for International Development that were on their way last month to feed starving children in the famine in Sudan. Elon Musk loved doing that. He loved snatching that food away from those children. So no one should be shocked if he does have one of his techies flip a switch and Social Security stops sending all survivor benefits to every child who sadly receives those benefits in the United States. Donald Trump said two things in the same answer that sent the stock market crashing today. One was that ridiculous. Who knows? To the question of is there going to be a recession? But what he said immediately after that is the reason that everyone on Wall street cites for the Trump stock market crash. Maria Bartiromo asked you, and you kind of hesitated.
- [17:58]
Donald Trump
I'll tell you what. Of course you hesitate. Who knows? All I know is this. We're going to take in hundreds of billions of dollars in tariffs and we're going to become so rich, you're not going to know where to spend all that money.
- [18:11]
Rachel Maddow
We're going to take in hundreds of billions of dollars in tariffs. We are going to take in hundreds of billions of dollars in tariffs. Okay, who are we going to take it from? We are going to take it from ourselves. Every American consumer will pay the Trump tariffs, and everyone on Wall street knows that. And that is why the stock market is crashing. No one is going to get richer because of the Trump tariffs. Everyone is going to have less disposable income because we will all be paying the Trump tariffs. Donald Trump is gleefully talking about taking hundreds of billions of dollars from you, from his voters, from everyone in the United States, and only from people in the United States because the Trump tariffs cannot be paid by anyone else. Last week, Donald Trump announced a delay in his illegal tariffs on Canadian and Mexican imports to this country. But Canada has decided to play tougher than Donald Trump and is going ahead with its retaliatory tariffs against Donald Trump. And the people of Minnesota know it. Joining us now is Democratic Senator Amy Klobuchar of Minnesota. She's a member of the Senate Judiciary Committee. Senator, I want to begin with what's happening with your border state bordering Canada tonight because of what Donald Trump has done to violate the trade agreement that we already have in place with Canada, which Donald Trump negotiated in his first presidency.
- [19:50]
Lawrence O'Donnell
So, Lawrence, thanks for making this real. Sometimes people think of tariffs as something that nerdy trade negotiators talk about. This is real. This is actually a tax on, on families. A lot of estimates right now is if once he's only paused Canada and Mexico, he's already put in China at 20% instead of targeted tariffs, that it's over $2,000 per family per year. And I think you see this if you're in the grocery store, you see coffee prices up, pork prices up, obviously, egg prices up. But then you think about things like lumber. Lumber goes up. What does that mean? Housing up. So what happened here is that the premier of Ontario, who's on the same page now, he's a conservative with the Liberal Party in Canada who now has a new prime minister, Right. The premier in Ontario said, that's it. We're going to put a 25% tariff on electricity. That is retaliation. That's going to affect three states big time. Minnesota, Michigan and New York. These are big states. But remember, this is just the beginning. This is one province in Canada. You're going to see more and more of this. So when I say There's a over $2,000 tax on every American family with the Trump session, that is true. And electricity is just the beginning.
- [21:19]
Rachel Maddow
And the important thing is it's happening right now. Also, there's also electricity that Canada provides to Vermont. I mean, the life of the border states and the intersection with Canada is not something that Donald Trump understands.
- [21:33]
Lawrence O'Donnell
No. And they're also some of our biggest trading partners. Like, my state is number four in the nation for agriculture exports. And when you look across the nation, our farmers, what they make, they're always operating on thin margins. About 20% of it goes internationally. Whether it is soybeans to China, whether it is pork products to Japan, whether it is items to Canada to Europe, it's unbelievable. And our supply chain is integrated. So even when he puts the pause in if you're someone that's making maple syrup in Canada or you're doing something else, you're like, okay, how am I going to get my supplies for this or this or this, you start thinking, you know what, I'm going to go somewhere else to get my whatever to get my lumber. I'm going to go somewhere else to get my corn. I'm going to get somewhere else because you can find other countries, whether it's Brazil or somewhere else whose leaders are not messing around like this. So it has a permanent impact even when it is paused. It is a tax on families. It is why you have the stock market going down. But it is part of the chaos that Donald Trump causes. Chaos up, corruption up, costs up. That is the true state of the union right now.
- [22:52]
Rachel Maddow
Senator Amy Klobuchar, thank you very much for starting off our discussion tonight.
- [22:56]
Lawrence O'Donnell
It was great to be on. Thanks.
- [22:57]
Rachel Maddow
Thank you. And coming up, Elon Musk called Senator Mark Kelly a traitor for going to Ukraine this weekend. And Donald Trump blamed his brotherly solidarity with Vladimir Putin on our next guest, Senator Adam Schiff. That's next.
- [23:18]
Alex Wagner
It's President Trump's first 100 days and MSNBC's Alex Wagner will be covering it all from the front lines. What issue matters to you the most? Join her as she travels the country to talk to the people at the center of the president's policies and promises.
- [23:33]
Lawrence O'Donnell
Do you think now that he's pardoned.
- [23:34]
Rachel Maddow
Everybody, he can count on this group of people again?
- [23:37]
Alex Wagner
Search for Trumpland with Alex Wagner wherever you're listening and follow subscribe to MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen ad free. MSNBC presents a new original podcast hosted by Jen Psaki. Each week she and her guests explore how the Democratic Party is facing this political moment and where it's headed next.
- [23:59]
Rachel Maddow
There's probably both messaging and policy issues, but as you look to kind of where the Democratic Party is is. Do you think it's more a messaging issue, more a policy issue?
- [24:09]
Alex Wagner
The Blueprint with Jen Psaki. Subscribe to MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts for ad free listening and bonus content. Stay up to date on the biggest issues of the day with the MSNBC Daily newsletter. Each morning you'll get analysis by experts you trust, video highlights from your favorite shows.
- [24:27]
Adam Schiff
I do think it's worth being very.
- [24:29]
Rachel Maddow
Clear eyed, very realistic about what's going on here.
- [24:33]
Alex Wagner
Previews of our podcasts and documentaries, plus written perspectives from the newsmakers themselves, all sent directly to your inbox each morning. Get the best of MSNBC all in one place. Sign up for MSNBC Daily at msnbc.com.
- [24:51]
Rachel Maddow
Words mean nothing to Elon Musk. So when Elon Musk writes, you are a trader, you can now be absolutely certain that whoever Elon Musk accuses of being a traitor is the exact opposite Elon Musk would not dare say. You are a traitor to Donald Trump. After Donald Trump became the first president in history to switch sides in the middle of a war and accuse the side the United States had been supporting in that war, Ukraine, of starting that war. Even though the world watched live on television as Vladimir Putin ordered the Russian army to invade Ukraine, which at the very start of Vladimir Putin's war against Ukraine, Donald Trump called genius. That was Donald Trump's word for it. Genius. That was his word for the war criminal Vladimir Putin, who invaded Ukraine and began targeting hospitals with missile strikes in the first week of his war against Ukraine. Senator Mark Kelly was in Ukraine this weekend visiting hospitals and other things and tweeted, just left Ukraine. What I saw proved to me we can't give up on the Ukrainian people. Everyone wants this war to end, but any agreement has to protect Ukraine's security and can't be a giveaway to Putin. Let me tell you about my trip and why it's important that we stand with Ukraine. And before bothering to read any more of Senator Kelly's thread about his trip to Ukraine, Elon Musk immediately said directly to the senator on Twitter, you are a traitor. To which Mark Kelly, the former Navy pilot and astronaut, responded, traitor. Question mark Elon, if you don't understand that defending freedom is a basic tenet of what makes America great and keeps us safe, maybe you should leave it to those of us who do. Of course, Elon Musk doesn't understand anything about the values of this country. He grew up with the values of white South Africa and then moved to Canada and ended up in the United States, a country whose history he has never studied and whose values he does not share, as he proves almost daily with tweets like, you are a traitor. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, like all foreign leaders who visit the Oval Office, was playing to two audiences when he was talking to Donald Trump in the Oval Office. First, the audience at home and second, the American audience. President Zelensky apparently did very well with the audience back home in Ukraine, according to a recent poll in Ukraine reported in the New York Times, showing President Zelenskyy's approval rating going from an already high of 57%, far above any recorded approval rating ever of Donald Trump's. Then it went up to 67% approval after President Zelensky's Oval Office visit. That's an approval rating Donald Trump will never come close to this weekend. When asked if he's been tough on Russia, Donald Trump said this.
- [28:03]
Donald Trump
I think I've been very tough to Russia. Tougher than Anybody's ever been to Russia, if you think about it. First of all, we had the Russia, Russia, Russia hoax, which was a very bad thing, could have led to a war. And that was started by Schiff and all these low lives.
- [28:20]
Rachel Maddow
Joining us now, Democratic Senator Adam Schiff of California. He's a member of the Senate Judiciary Committee. And as usual, Senator, we've reserved time for you to respond to Donald Trump's latest comment about you.
- [28:33]
Adam Schiff
Well, thank you, Lawrence. You know, I evidently live in that guy's head. And I think I've told you before, it's a pretty scary place to live. But no, Donald Trump only has himself to blame for his cowardice. Like a lot of bullies, at their core, they're really afraid. And for whatever reason, Donald Trump is afraid of Putin and caters to Putin, wants to emulate Putin. But no, I don't think he can foist off his Russia file nature on me. But, you know, it's like Elon Musk calling Mark Kelly a traitor. He called me a traitor last week. Now he's calling Mark Kelly. I am very proud to be in the company of Mark Kelly. But I feel like I should send an email to Elon Musk asking him the five things he's done this week for his own car company, which is in the toilet right now. Maybe he should spend a little more time focused on his car company instead of wrecking American foreign policy. Because between the two of these people, Donald Trump and Elon Musk, they have betrayed an ally at war. What they have done with Ukraine has been just shameful. This president, who claims that he's the great architect of the art of the deal, has been sabotaging Ukraine in advance of any peace negotiation. He and Marco Rubio, Elon Musk talking about how Ukraine is going to have to give up its territory, talking about how Ukraine's not going to become a member of NATO, essentially undercutting them in every way, withdrawing military support, withdrawing intelligence support, withdrawing diplomatic support. And we're supposed to believe, as Donald Trump just said in that interview, that no one's ever been tougher on Russia. Does he think the whole country is stupid? We can see what he's doing. And what he's doing is sabotaging our ally, weakening our NATO alliance. And I think it's among the greatest betrayals in history. And I will say, Lawrence, you were talking about the Trump session and how Donald Trump may go down history having been the only president to have a recession named after him if as a result of his actions Ukraine should lose this war. It will be Donald Trump who lost the war in Ukraine, and he will go down in history as the one who lost the war for one of our allies. I hope and pray that does not happen.
- [30:55]
Rachel Maddow
You know, and I don't want to let him say on this program that the Russian investigation amounted to nothing, which is what he always says. In fact, the Russia investigation proved that Russia and Vladimir Putin did everything they possibly could to help Donald Trump win the presidency in 2016, and they've helped him with every campaign after that.
- [31:17]
Adam Schiff
Well, that's exactly right. What Donald Trump calls a hoax is Russia's effort to hack Democratic Party emails and then drip, drip, drip them out during the course of that 2016 campaign. It was Russia establishing a troll farm in St. Petersburg to push out content hurtful to Hillary Clinton, helpful to Donald Trump, and it's Russia's help in every election since. And so that's what Donald Trump wants to call a hoax because he, I guess, wants to try to conceal the fact that Russia has been all in for him ever since he ran for office the first time. And Donald Trump is all in for Russia. And it doesn't matter what it does to our national security. It doesn't mean doesn't matter to him what it does to our standing in the world, doesn't matter to our European allies. The only thing that matters is Donald Trump gets to pay back his Russian benefactor.
- [32:12]
Rachel Maddow
Senator Adam Schiff, thank you very much for joining us tonight. Thank you.
- [32:17]
Adam Schiff
Thanks, Lawrence.
- [32:19]
Rachel Maddow
Coming up, Secretary of State Marco Rubio says that he is canceling many USAID programs. He doesn't say which, but a judge tonight has ordered the secretary of State to pay the USAID contractors who have sued to be paid. We'll have more on that right after this break with Andrew Weissman.
- [32:45]
Alex Wagner
MSNBC presents Main justice. Each week on their podcast, veteran lawyers Andrew Weissman and Mary McCord break down the latest developments inside the Trump administration's Department of Justice.
- [32:57]
Rachel Maddow
The administration doesn't necessarily want to be.
- [32:59]
Donald Trump
Questioned on Aeven's policy.
- [33:01]
Andrew Weissman
I think what we are seeing is Project 2025 in action. This is it coming to fruition.
- [33:08]
Alex Wagner
Main justice subscribe to MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts for ad free listening and bonus content. The first 100 days, bills are passed, executive orders are signed, and presidencies are defined. And for Donald Trump's first 100 days, Rachel Maddow is on MSNBC five nights a week.
- [33:28]
Adam Schiff
Now is the time, so we're going.
- [33:29]
Alex Wagner
To do it, providing her unique insight and analysis during this critical time.
- [33:34]
Rachel Maddow
How do we strategically align ourselves to this moment of information, this moment of transition in our country?
- [33:40]
Alex Wagner
The Rachel Maddows show, weeknights at 9pm Eastern on MSNBC.
- [33:49]
Rachel Maddow
Andrew Weissman will join us to discuss Attorney General Pam Bondi firing the pardon attorney in the Justice Department who opposed restoring Mel Gibson's gun rights. That's the breaking news of the night. But first, Secretary of State Marco Rubio began his day with a tweet that said After a six week review, we are officially canceling 83% of the programs at USAID. The 5,200 contracts that are now canceled spent tens of billions of dollars in ways that did not serve and in some cases even harm the core national interests of the United States. In consultation with Congress, we intend for the remaining 18% of programs we are keeping approximately 1000 to now be administered more effectively under the State Department. Secretary Rubio did not identify a single contract that he says is now canceled and he did not identify a single program that he says will continue. So his tweet so far does not tell us whether Marco Rubio will resume feeding starving children in the famine in Sudan. But a federal judge tonight is ordering him to fund the programs that Congress has authorized. In a 48 page opinion issued this evening, Federal Judge Amir ali in Washington, D.C. wrote the provision and administration of foreign aid has been a joint enterprise between our two political branches. That partnership is built not out of convenience but of constitutional necessity. It reflects Congress and the executives firmly establish that shared constitutional responsibilities over foreign policy. And it reflects the division of authorities dictated by the Constitution as it relates to the appropriation of funds and execute and executing on those appropriations. Congress exercising its exclusive Article 1, Power of the purse, appropriates funds to be spent towards specific foreign policy aims. The president exercising a more general article to power, decides how to spend those funds in faithful execution of the law. And so foreign aid has proceeded over the years. Today, this court reaffirms these firmly established principles of our Constitution. The judge said that Secretary Rubio must, quote, make available for obligation the full amount of funds Congress appropriated under the relevant laws. Joining us now, Andrew Weishman, former FBI general counsel, former chief of the Criminal Division in the Eastern District of New York. He's an MSNBC legal analyst. Andrew, this is a judge saying the Constitution says what we thought it says.
- [36:23]
Andrew Weissman
I think there's two ways to think about this that are not complicated. If you go back to the first, Trump impeachment, which was about Donald Trump withholding congressionally mandated funds, there it was to aid Ukraine, and it was an extortion scheme to try and get President Zelensky to say he was opening a fraud investigation into candidate Biden. But the sin there, the sort of key issue was that it was congressionally mandated funds. And that is what the court now is saying again, which is that you do not have the unilateral authority. This is going to be the test for the Supreme Court over and over again, which is that Donald Trump is going to take as much power as he possibly can and it's going to be up to the courts and Congress. We should live so long to push back on that. The other way to look at this is, as you alluded to, is leaving all of those legal issues aside. Why would you possibly, just as a policy matter, think that this is a good idea, just as it just in terms of good government? The American people should be saying, you've got to be kidding.
- [37:37]
Rachel Maddow
We're going to squeeze in a break here. When we come back, Donald Trump wants Mel Gibson to get his guns back and he's willing to fire the pardon attorney at the Justice Department to do that. We're going to be right back with Andrew Weissman on Mel Gibson's guns. Andrew Weissman is back with us and the breaking news of the night is from the New York Times reporting. The Justice Department's pardon attorney was dismissed a day after she refused to recommend that the actor Mel Gibson, a prominent supporter of Donald Trump's, should have his gun rights restored, according to the attorney and others familiar with the situation. Elizabeth G. Oyer, the former pardon attorney, described the sequence of events. Mr. Gibson had lost his gun rights as a result of a 2011 domestic violence misdemeanor conviction. Andrew, this is the latest turn at the Trump Justice Department.
- [38:38]
Andrew Weissman
As we were saying before we came on air, this is like a vignette of sort of everything encapsulate it. You have the disregard for public safety. You have favoritism in terms of giving him this benefit. You have the way in which a career person is treated, the sort of the dismissiveness of it, that this is a career public servant and you can have disagreements and doesn't mean you just summarily fire them after years of public service. I mean, and just sort of the abdication of the rule of law. I mean, all of this sort of encapsulated in this story. I mean, it's just remarkable. Just remember the reason that the pardon attorney was saying that this shouldn't be allowed. And by the way, she was saying that other gun rights should be restored to other people, she said. But here this is a matter of public safety. It is not a political issue. People who are engaged in spousal abuse and violence should not have their guns restored. That was her position. You should not get fired over that.
- [39:42]
Rachel Maddow
Yeah. And ragingly drunken spousal abuse and ragingly drunken arrested for drunk driving where he abuses the police officer who arrested him. We all in our way witnessed that.
- [39:56]
Andrew Weissman
Yeah. So look, I mean, maybe there's some other story, but on its face, what is being reported by the now former pardon attorney, it really encapsulates in one story all of the issues in terms of what's going on in the Department of Justice, which seems to be wrongly named and what the Trump administration is doing. And so you have an example. We've sort of, we're talking about things that are sort of against the law when we're talking about the court saying the USAD funding needs to be restored. But you also have here something that is just wrong as a matter of policy. Why would you want to have an administration put guns in the hands of somebody like that, that.
- [40:37]
Rachel Maddow
Andrew Weissman, thank you very much for joining us tonight. We'll be right back. In the words of Rachel Maddow, you can follow me on Blue Sky. And there's that Blue sky thing, handle whatever they call it, where you can get me at lawrencevonolemit.msnbc.com on BlueSky, that QR code on the right of the screen, you can focus on that. That'll get you straight to me on Bluesky. Tonight's last word is Blue Sky.
- [41:10]
Alex Wagner
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