Lawrence: Trump is lost in his own fear about the Epstein emails. His silence proves it.

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Last Word with Lawrence O’Donnell

Episode Title: Trump is lost in his own fear about the Epstein emails. His silence proves it.
Date: November 14, 2025
Host: Lawrence O'Donnell
Guests: Jen Psaki, Andrew Weissmann, Jamie Raskin, Julie K. Brown

Overview

In this episode, Lawrence O'Donnell investigates the mounting political and legal crisis facing Donald Trump as newly released Jeffrey Epstein emails surface, highlighting Trump’s pointed silence and his team’s scrambled response. Bringing in legal experts and investigative journalists, O’Donnell dissects the implications for Trump, Vice President J.D. Vance, and the Justice Department’s mishandling of the Epstein investigation. O'Donnell also draws historical parallels with the Watergate scandal and Gerald Ford’s role, pressing the case for transparency and accountability.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Donald Trump's "Epstein Silence"

• Breaking News: Trump broke a day-long Twitter silence — not to address the Epstein emails, but only to promote a friend's book. O'Donnell emphasizes that Trump has made no public comment about the extremely damaging new tranche of Epstein emails implicating him.
• O'Donnell: “Donald Trump has fallen into dead silence. The most talkative president in history spent the day in abject silence about the biggest story of the year about him.” [12:21]
• Trump’s Fear: O’Donnell suggests that Trump, known for constant tweeting, is conspicuously silent, indicating “pure fear... of the word Epstein and pure fear of saying a word in reply.” [13:19]

2. J.D. Vance Draws Comparisons to Gerald Ford

• O'Donnell revisits his previous night’s analogy, likening Vice President J.D. Vance’s evasive posture to Gerald Ford’s silence during Nixon’s unraveling.
• J.D. Vance’s Response: Vance claims he has been interviewed, but in his Fox interview with Sean Hannity, he says nothing about Epstein, Trump, or the emails. O’Donnell notes: “J.D. Vance is still Gerald Ford tonight.” [03:55]
• Notable exchange:
  O'Donnell: “J.D. Vance was absolutely silent in that interview about any of the Jeffrey Epstein emails released by the house Oversight Committee. J.D. Vance never said the word Epstein...” [02:36]

3. Media and Political Evasion

• Discussion of how Fox News and White House surrogates avoid the Epstein topic, with O’Donnell satirizing the Hannity interview and noting how even Attorney General Pam Bondi ignored the issue.

4. Legal Response and Justice Department Missteps

• Todd Blanche’s Tweet: Trump’s Deputy Attorney General, and former criminal defense lawyer, tweets a clumsy defense after criticism for failing to question Ghislaine Maxwell about the new emails, claiming the Justice Department only just received them from the Epstein estate.
• Lawrence dissects Blanche’s claim, exposes its falsehood and logical holes:
  • The Epstein estate always said it’d comply with a subpoena; Blanche or DOJ could have acted much sooner.
  • Notable quote: “No one at the Epstein Estate hid that material from Todd Blanche. That is a lie.” [18:04]
• O’Donnell underscores the implication: either incompetence or intentional shielding of Trump.

5. Incompetence, Corruption, or Both? (with Andrew Weissmann)

• Andrew Weissmann: Former FBI counsel and MSNBC analyst, expresses shock at Blanche’s admission, calling it a de facto confession of investigative incompetence.
  • Weissmann: “He is saying, oh, you know what? I’m incompetent. ...If you are a victim now... you have to just be dumbfounded.” [25:19]
• Legal Process Critique: They detail basic investigative failures—no subpoenas for emails, no search warrants, minimal cross-examination of Maxwell.

6. Congressional and Political Fallout (with Jamie Raskin)

• Rep. Jamie Raskin (D-MD): Top Democrat on the House Judiciary Committee, wants Todd Blanche under oath to explain the DOJ’s failures.
• Raskin points out the implausibility that the emails were never obtained, citing the vast data seized from Epstein.
  • Raskin: “The idea that his emails weren’t in there is ridiculous. And of course, they probably didn’t look.” [37:24]
• Raskin raises the issue of Blanche acting as Trump’s defense lawyer, not a Justice Department official: “All of it invites the question, in what capacity has he been acting? ... It is as Donald Trump's personal criminal defense lawyer, or is it as the deputy Attorney General of the United States?” [37:40]
• Raskin calls for Congressional opposition to any future Trump pardon of key figures.

7. Investigative Journalism's Impact (with Julie K. Brown)

• Julie K. Brown: Miami Herald investigative reporter whose work first exposed Epstein’s crimes.
• Brown highlights that Trump's name appears more than almost any other (except Epstein) in the released emails, further supporting the evidence of Trump’s longtime knowledge and proximity to Epstein’s crimes.
  • Brown: “Some of these emails, it appears that Epstein is trying in some way to point out that Trump not only knew about his crimes... but also alludes to the fact that Trump was in his house at times naming a victim...” [42:55]
• She critiques the DOJ’s investigation as intentionally shallow: “They never did a thorough investigation. In fact, I think that they actually tried to minimize the case so they wouldn’t have to make it into a federal crime.” [45:35]

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• O'Donnell on Trump’s Silence:
  “How do you freeze those Twitter fingers of his? ...Is he frozen in fear? Does his silence tell us how terrified he is of what has already emerged about him in Jeffrey Epstein's emails?” [12:42]

• Epstein on Trump (from Emails):
  “I told everyone from day one, evil beyond belief, mad. And most thought I was speaking metaphorically.” [35:53]
  Epstein to a reporter: “Would you like photos of Donald and girls in bikinis in my kitchen?” [36:10]

• Weissmann on DOJ Inaction:
  “The investigation that they [victims] were entitled to has not happened. ...He is saying, oh, you know what? I'm incompetent.” [25:19]

• Jamie Raskin’s Call for Accountability:
  “All of it invites the question, in what capacity has he been acting? Is it as Donald Trump's personal criminal defense lawyer, or is it as the deputy Attorney General of the United States...?” [37:40]

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Important Timestamps

• Trump's First Tweet since the Epstein Emails - 00:49
• J.D. Vance’s Fox Interview and O’Donnell’s Ford Analogy - 01:32, 03:55
• Trump's Oval Office Refusal to Answer “Epstein” Questions - 13:14
• Breakdown of DOJ Failures (O'Donnell & Weissmann) - 18:04, 25:19–29:45
• Jamie Raskin’s Critique & Legislative Intent - 37:24–40:38
• Julie K. Brown on the Content and Implications of Epstein’s Emails - 42:55–45:35

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Summary Table: Who Said What on the Crisis

| Speaker | Key Points | Timestamp(s) | |------------------------|-----------------------------------------------------------------------|-----------------| | Lawrence O’Donnell | Trump’s silence proves fear; DOJ incompetence or corruption; parallels with Ford/Nixon | Throughout | | Jen Psaki | Sparring banter about covering the story, Vance engagement | 00:47–02:09 | | Andrew Weissmann | Shock at DOJ investigation failings; legal process critique | 25:19–33:28 | | Jamie Raskin | Congressional oversight; Blanche acting as Trump lawyer; call to block pardons | 37:24–42:04 | | Julie K. Brown | Trump featured heavily in Epstein emails; DOJ investigation was intentionally weak | 42:55–45:35 |

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Concluding Impression

Lawrence O’Donnell’s episode combines sharp political analysis, legal scrutiny, and investigative reporting to argue that Donald Trump’s silence—and the evasiveness of his circle—signals a deep crisis triggered by the Epstein emails. The discussion exposes not just Trump’s vulnerability but also the Justice Department’s profound failures, with calls from experts and lawmakers for real accountability and transparency. The episode leaves the unmistakable impression that “the truth will be known,” and the pressure for meaningful investigation will be relentless.

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Transcript

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

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[Commercial Announcer]

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[Jen Psaki]

Word with Lawrence O'. Donnell. Hey, Lawrence.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Hey Jen. I'm gonna be doing exactly the same show on Ms. Now. And we have breaking news at this very minute. Actually, a minute ago, Donald Trump just tweeted for the first time since 2 o' clock yesterday afternoon, he has broken his Epstein silence. And the tweet is promoting a book by a friend of his, followed immediately by another tweet promoting it out of the book. In other words, Donald Trump is maintaining his very strict silence.

[Jen Psaki]

It wasn't released. The Epstein files. Now, surprise, surprise.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

It was not. No.

[Jen Psaki]

Well, there you go.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

And Jen, we have the I watched FOX so that you don't have to and of course you couldn't because you were doing your show.

[Jen Psaki]

But I looked a little during the commercials. But yes, tell me what you I.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Just saw the JD Vance interview and I will show the audience Everything that J.D. vance said about Donald Trump and Jeffrey Epstein and their 15 year friendship as as Donald Trump described it. We'll show you everything he said about it.

[Jen Psaki]

Can't wait to watch.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

And we'll also get into what J.D. vance said about me. So we have.

[Jen Psaki]

How about you?

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

He has decided to engage with me and so we'll have to address that.

[Jen Psaki]

The badge of honor. Can't wait to see you address it.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Thanks, Jen.

[Jen Psaki]

Bye, Lawrence.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Thank you. Well, the Vice President of the United States has now responded to what I said about him at this hour on this program last night. The breaking news of this hour is that J.D. vance took to Twitter this evening to respond to an 18 minute video of my comments last night on this program that were posted on Twitter by a viewer. That posting excerpted what I said about the Vice President last night in the tweet and put it in the wrote it in the Body of the tweet saying, JD Vance is doing exactly what Gerald Ford did while the Nixon presidency was sinking. And Richard Nixon was under increasing pressure over several months that led to his resignation. When things were the dark for President Richard Nixon, Vice President Gerald Ford said nothing. Tonight, J.D. vance is silent tonight. J.D. vance is Gerald Ford. That is an accurate transcription of what I said about J.D. vance last night. 24 hours later, J.D. vance speaks. His post on social media in response to that video says, quote, I did two media interviews literally today, one of which is airing in a few hours. That tweet was posted around 6 o' clock tonight. He was referring to the Sean Hannity interview with J.D. vance, and that was presented just in the last hour on Fox. And J.D. vance was absolutely silent in that interview about Jeffrey Epstein's emails saying that Donald Trump, quote, knew about the girls. JD Vance was absolutely silent in that interview about any of the Jeffrey Epstein emails released by the house Oversight Committee. J.D. vance never said the word Epstein. J.D. vance never Said the words Ghislaine Maxwell. J.D. vance stayed absolutely silent about the worst challenge his boss is facing tonight. In other words, JD Vance is still Gerald Ford tonight. Are you as obsessed with AI as I am? I am. Okay. I don't know. I'm a grok guy.

[Commercial Announcer]

Okay.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Me too. I'm a grok guy. You're a grok guy. Okay, Elon. I think it's the best. I think it's the best. It's also the least woke. I'm always asking myself, if I ask an AI a question, is it going to give me an objective? The Vice President puts in an extreme woke answer. Have you put it in extremo just for kicks and giggles? It's a little.

[Andrew Weissmann]

Well, if you want.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

I have not, Sean. I don't want the media to attack it. If you want to know, that whole interview was for kicks and giggles. It never, ever got more serious than that. And coming up, more of my exclusive interview with Vice President J.D. vance. We're going to ask him about the pressures of the job, what has he learned from President Trump? And of course, the question on everyone's mind. The question on everyone's mind that was Sean doing a parody of Shawn. Of course, he didn't ask the question on everyone's mind about Donald Trump's relationship with Jeffrey Epstein. HANNITY Asked if J.D. vance was going to run for president in 2028, a question J.D. vance did not answer. But the world knows the answer is yes. Underlying the absurdity of the Hannity interview tonight, Attorney General Pam Bondi was the next guest on the Hannity show where of course the word Epstein was never mentioned. And in JD Vance's social media attempt tonight in which he pretends that he is answering me and rising to Donald Trump's defense about Donald Trump's self described 15 year friendship with Jeffrey Epstein, JD Vance himself managed to bring even more attention to my 18 minute statement last night about Donald Trump and Jeffrey Epstein and J.D. vance. Now the Vice President's Twitter followers and social media followers probably don't often hear what I have to say. But now J.D. vance has made the mistake of hooking them up with what I had to say last night about him and Donald Trump and what Jeffrey Epstein had to say about Donald Trump in his emails. And that might be the only way J.D. vance followers ever hear any of that. It's entirely possible that followers of J.D. vance might have no other source for that information except the video of me talking about it that J.D. vance tonight decided to push out there into the heart of the Trump Vance social media world, a sealed off echo chamber where my voice is usually not heard. So thank you for that Mr. Vice President. And J.D. vance proved my point tonight by maintaining a Gerald Ford like silence about his President's scandal in his interview on Fox. So J.D. vance is still very much Gerald Ford tonight. Gerald Ford as Vice President of the United States spoke a number of times in a number of places while his President Richard Nixon was seeking into scandal an eventual resignation that would let Jerry Ford become President. Jerry Ford just never offered any defense of Richard Nixon's crimes as they were being revealed in an investigation and eventually in testimony by Richard Nixon's criminal co conspirators in the White House, including White House Counsel John Dean, who himself ended up convicted of crimes. And so no Mr. Vice President, simply submitting to a so called interview on Fox with Sean which avoids any possible mention of Jeffrey Epstein does not in any way distinguish you from Gerald Ford and the way Gerald Ford handled President Nixon's collapse into scandal, disgrace, resignation and finally being the recipient of a pardon for his crimes by the new President Gerald Ford. The question tonight for the Vice President of the United States is how far will you take your Gerald Ford imitation if you, J.D. vance, rise to the Presidency, will you pardon Donald Trump? If J.D. vance will answer that question with a simple no, then the comparison to Gerald ford immediately evaporates. J.D. vance's response to me tonight shows how dazed and confused the Trump team is. J.D. vance thinks he's doing something clever by saying he's not Gerald Ford because he did a media interview, which doesn't in any way contradict what I said about J.D. vance last night. Being silent about the suspicions about Jeffrey Epstein's emails, about Donald Trump, about what those emails mean. And J.D. vance is being silent tonight about Donald Trump's own silence. Donald Trump made the front page once again today in his hometown newspapers and around the world. And in the last 24 hours, right up to the beginning of this program, Jeffrey Epstein has had more to say about Donald Trump than Donald Trump has had to say about Jeffrey Epstein. And Jeffrey Epstein is dead. Donald Trump has fallen into dead silence. The most talkative president in history spent the day in abject silence about the biggest story of the year about him. What does it take to freeze the most impulsive person to ever occupy the Oval Office into? Not tweeting once until he tweeted just a minute ago about a book? Donald Trump's social media postings are nonstop and mostly irrelevant to the presidency, mostly irrelevant to the governing of the United States of America. Donald Trump, while president, has posted thousands upon thousands of tweets and comments about entertainers and athletes and other completely irrelevant things. But today, not a single thing. Nothing. Until a couple of minutes ago. Two posts about books. All day, from the early morning till just now, nothing. Nothing from Donald Trump's Twitter fingers. How do you freeze those Twitter fingers of his? How does that happen? Is he frozen in fear? Does his silence tell us how terrified he is of what has already emerged about him in Jeffrey Epstein's emails? Jeffrey Epstein in one of his emails called Donald Trump, quote, evil beyond belief. Jeffrey Epstein knew Donald Trump much longer than anyone in Republican politics knows Donald Trump. Jeffrey Epstein knew the unguarded Donald Trump. Jeffrey Epstein knew the guy at the parties. Jeffrey Epstein says Donald Trump visited his house many, many times. And there is not a Republican politic politician anywhere in the country who can tell you that Donald Trump has visited his home many, many times. Donald Trump's utterly buffoonish Secretary of Commerce said that he visited Jeffrey Epstein's house one time. And Howard Lutnick and his wife, both, according to Howard Lutnick, immediately concluded that there was something gravely wrong with Jeffrey Epstein. And they left Jeffrey Epstein's house as fast as they could within minutes of their first entry into into Jeffrey Epstein's house. And they never went back. And that's the goofiest Secretary of Commerce in history. And he instantly, according to his testimony, figured out there was something very wrong with Jeffrey Epstein. The very same person who Donald Trump said was a Terrific guy who Donald Trump was friends with for at least 15 years. Donald Trump, in an interview with New York magazine conducted over the phone, joyfully told the interviewer, quote, I've known Jeff for 15 years. Terrific guy. He's a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do. And many of them are on the younger side, no doubt about it. Jeffrey enjoys his social life. And now Donald Trump does not dare to speak a word about Jeffrey Epstein. Donald Trump has always denied any involvement in or knowledge of Jeffrey Epstein's sex trafficking and raping of children. And so it would be nice to hear Donald Trump's explanation tonight of what Jeffrey Epstein could have possibly meant. When Jeffrey Epstein said in his email that Donald Trump knew about the girls, he did not call them young women in that email that Jeffrey Epstein wrote, he called them girls. Here's what Donald Trump looks like when he is absolutely terrified of even hearing the word Epstein. Thank you very much, everybody.

[Jamie Raskin]

Are you prepared to negotiate with Democrats.

[Julie K. Brown]

Now, Mr. President, on January?

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Epstein?

[Julie K. Brown]

Thank you very much, Mr. President.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Can you respond to these Epstein emails that were released today? Good try. That was Donald Trump last night in the Oval Office during this program, refusing to answer a single reporter's question. And he had those reporters rushed out of that room without him daring to answer a single question. He was afraid of taking a single question. And every shouted question at him had the word Epstein in it. And that is pure fear on Donald Trump's face. Pure fear of the word Epstein and pure fear of saying a word in reply to those questions. That was last night. This was today. The silent man strolling out of that room in fear of that word Epstein that he was hearing from that reporter marching out of the room, completely incapable of even attempting to form a sentence or even a single word in response to the word Epstein. And so Donald Trump is lost in his fear tonight and incapable of forming even a single sentence in his own defense. And no one else on his team can either. Sounds like a job for a criminal defense lawyer. The problem for Donald Trump is that his criminal defense lawyer is the only criminal defense lawyer in history who obtained a guilty verdict for a president. Todd Blanche, who won Donald Trump 34 guilty verdicts from a Manhattan jury, is now Donald Trump's utterly incompetent and childish deputy Attorney general. And I say childish because of this tweet from the Deputy Attorney General. Yesterday, the president of the New York Bar State Bar association issued a statement denouncing, quote, Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche's declaration of war on the Judiciary and Bar association disciplinary bodies. Any other lawyer would be ashamed at provoking such a proper denunciation. But Donald Trump's Deputy Attorney General tweeted the reply LOL to that. He is the first child we have had as a Deputy Attorney General. We have had deputy Attorneys General of varying degrees of competence, but we have never had a child in the job. Now we do, thanks to the child in the Oval Office. Todd Blanche is one of the worst criminal defense lawyers I have ever seen work in a courtroom. And he proved that again today with a tweet replying to George Conway, who said that the Epstein emails quote, show that Todd Blanche's questioning of Ghislaine Maxwell was either a completely incompetent or B intentionally crafted not to elicit facts incriminating Trump. Either way, he is not fit to serve as Deputy Attorney General of the United States. Todd Blanche's foolish reply to that tweet was, quote, when I interviewed Maxwell, law enforcement didn't have the materials Epstein's estate hid for years and only just provided to Congress. So there's the Attorney General, the Deputy Attorney General replying with a lie as part of his reply. The lie is that the Epstein estate hid the Epstein emails. That is a lie. The Epstein estate possessed the Epstein emails. But as the world learned on this program on July 23, when attorney Brad Edwards told us that lawyers for the Epstein estate would immediately comply with any subpoena for any and all documents in their possession, that is how those emails emerges emerged. That is how Congress got the idea to subpoena the Epstein Estate. What was Todd Blanche doing that night? Why wasn't he watching and taking notes? Why didn't he go after those documents from the Epstein estate? Todd Blanche could have obtained all of the material from the Epstein estate on his first day as the Deputy Attorney General. And so no one at the Epstein Estate hid that material from Todd Blanche. That is a lie. But here is the other big problem. Todd Blanche just foolishly and incompetently created for himself and his client Donald Trump by thinking, as bad lawyers do, that he has a very clever wise guy response and Twitter is the place for him to issue his wise guy response. Todd Blanche's tweet says, when I interviewed, ma enforcement didn't have the materials Epstein's estate hid for years and only just provided to Congress. That is Todd Blanche's defense. Remember, that's a defense against George Conway's accusation that Todd Blanche is completely incompetent for not asking Ghislaine Maxwell about these emails. Todd Blanche seems to be agreeing that he would be completely incompetent if. If he was in possession of those emails when he was questioning Ghislaine Maxwell. Okay, well, now they are in your possession, Todd. And now you can ask her again. You can go back to her and you can ask her what these emails to her from Jeffrey Epstein mean. The email about Donald Trump being the dog that hasn't barked. What does that mean? Ghislaine Maxwell indicates in her response to it, she knows exactly what it means. And if you don't go and ask her those questions, Todd, you are proving George Conway's statement to be completely accurate. You are proving you are completely incompetent or that you intentionally crafted questions to protect your previous criminal client, Donald Trump. Todd Blanche has done something else with his profoundly stupid and unprofessional tweet. Todd Blanche has revealed to us something about the Epstein files. If we believe Todd Blanche. Todd Blanche has revealed to us that the Epstein files, remember, are the investigative files in the possession of the Justice Department, controlled by Todd Blanche. Right now, he controls every single one of those documents, every single page. Todd Blanche is saying that the Epstein files do not contain the Jeffrey Epstein emails that were obtained by Congress through a subpoena to the Epstein estate. Okay, Todd, if you are now willing to tell us what the Epstein files do not contain, please give us the answer to the question that the Attorney General of the United States refused to answer when Senator Sheldon Whitehouse asked her if the Epstein files contain, quote, photos of President Trump with half naked young women. The question is, did the FBI find those photographs that have been discussed publicly by a witness who claimed Jeffrey Epstein showed them to him?

[Jamie Raskin]

You don't know anything about that.

[Andrew Weissmann]

Okay.

[Jamie Raskin]

Here'S what some.

[Andrew Weissmann]

Well, now we cut to something else.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

With his wise guy tweet. Donald Trump's incompetent deputy Attorney General, who is also his incompetent criminal defense lawyer, has opened the door to answering questions about what is and what is not in the Epstein files. Todd Blanche has established the principle that the Attorney General and the Deputy Attorney General can tell us at least whenever something is not in the Epstein files. He established that principle today. So tell us that the Epstein files contain no photographs obtained from Jeffrey Epstein of Donald Trump with half naked young women. Why didn't the Attorney General just say, no, I have never seen those photographs? That would be a very easy thing for her to say if and only if it were true. But obviously, if she has seen those photographs, if she has held them in her hands at the time that she said the Epstein files and the Epstein client list were on her desk, then she cannot say that she has never seen those photographs. And so tonight, the Trump White House and the Trump Justice Department, with their uncontrollable incompetence, have no idea how to help Donald Trump out of the Epstein hole he has dug for himself. But they apparently do know how to dig that hole deeper. After this break, Andrew Weissman will join us.

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[Lawrence O'Donnell]

When I read Todd Blanch's tweet 12 hours ago, I spent every minute since then eager to hear what our next guest has to say about it. Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche's tweet today says when I interviewed Maxwell Law Enforcement didn't have the materials Epstein's estate hid for years and only just provided to Congress. Joining us now is Andrew Weismann, former FBI general counsel and an MSNBC legal analyst. Andrew, your reaction to that tweet?

[Andrew Weissmann]

I was really dumbfounded. Let me just tell you why. You have already covered the issue of hid that the state didn't hide. There's no evidence of that. And one of the reasons we know that is that they responded to a subpoena. But it just was that it came from Congress, not from the Department of Justice or the FBI. But this is what that is a confession to. And I am taking Todd at his word. In other words, I am not challenging what he is saying. There's. He says that law enforcement did not have all of the emails that we are reacting to, that none of that was anything that law enforcement had. He has now confessed that that means that the investigation was incompetent. The way that you do an investigation is you don't sit in your office and say, gee, I hope that the estate and other people will bring me documents that might be relevant. You actually do the work. You interview people, you issue subpoenas, you issue search warrants. Here, these are Gmails. These are things you get from Google. You could issue a subpoena to the estate. You could have issued a subpoena to Jeffrey Epstein. You could issue a subpoena to all of the people who are on it. In other words, these are texts and emails with people who exist and you can go to them. But the other thing that you do and is really common is you get a search warrant, which is relatively easy, and you go to Google and other providers and they have the full cache of emails. And what he is telling you is that was not done. So what we do not know now is what else was not done. And if you are a victim now and you are listening to this and the deputy attorney general is telling you, we didn't even get these things, you have to just be dumbfounded. The investigation that they were entitled to has not happened. That is. That is the defense of the deputy attorney General to the claim that he is either incompetent or he was corrupt. And he is saying, oh, you know what? I'm incompetent. I was incorrupt because we didn't have these. I should also point out it's not like he didn't have tens of thousands of documents and ways to cross examine Ghislaine Maxwell. So his defense to, you know, I didn't really do a Cover up with her is, is a nonsensical defense because it's not like he cross examined her with anything. This was, as we've talked about, he acted as Donald Trump's defense lawyer, not as the Deputy Attorney General. One final point on this is the very last thing that he says to George Conway is stop talking. It's unbecoming. A member of the United States government is not, cannot, under the First Amendment tell somebody to stop talking. And to me, that is one more sign that Todd Blanche is not acting as the Deputy Attorney General, he is acting as a personal attorney. That is unbelievable that you would say that in government to a private person.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

And there's the way these emails turn on each other. So George Conway says you in effect, his George Conway's tweet says Todd Blanche should have asked about these emails. Todd Blanche's defense is I didn't have the emails. His defense could have been, they're completely irrelevant. Of course I shouldn't have asked about them. He's saying, george, you're right, I should have asked about the emails if I had them. But I didn't have them. And so we have to, we're working on an assumption here that Todd Blanche is telling the truth. It is entirely possible he would not be the first member of a Republican scandalized Justice Department to lie as Richard Nixon's Attorney General did in situations like this. So he could be lying and in fact he could have had possession of that email. But let's for the moment go with your approach of they don't have that email. Todd Blanch is admitting in his response the relevance of the email. And of course, if I had that email, implicit in his response is if I had it, I would have asked about it.

[Andrew Weissmann]

That is 100% correct. And the fallacy of all of this is as I mentioned, there were many, many things to cross examine her with. So the argument which is I would have been tough on her if only the law enforcement had any of this is absurd because I mean, how about starting with one of the things that she wasn't asked about was that not only did she say, like, did we know that she was saying I am not guilty of anything, but her view is Jeffrey Epstein wasn't guilty of anything. I mean, so there were so many ways to cross examine her. So to sit there and say, gee, if I'd only had these, then I could have done an effective cross examination. But I really tried. I mean, I would ask people. It's now public. You can see the two days of this so called interview. And there's just no way to look at that as a government lawyer trying to get at the truth as opposed to trying to weave a story that would be helpful for what was a former client. And many people can look at that and think current client. So it's a remarkable, remarkable tweet. But I think it really is important for people to focus on your, your point now, which is what do you do now? And it's not, it's not just that law enforcement now has these and they could go back to her. There really is this question of what else do they not have? If they did not do the simple step of getting Jeffrey Epstein's email account, I mean, what does that say to you? I mean, it's unbelievable. Again, if you're a victim, how do you sit here tonight and look at that and feel like, oh, justice was done and this is not a cover up. I mean, it really reeks of being a complete cover up. Not just because they're not releasing the rest of the documents, but it shows that they haven't done the proper investigation to begin with.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

And Andrew, so Todd Blanche today has given the very first revelation ever from the Trump Justice Department about what is in the Epstein files. He's saying this isn't now that is a revelation about what's in the Epstein files. That opens it up. Tell us what else is not in the Epstein files. If that's the only thing you're willing to tell us is what's not in the Epstein files. We have a long list of questions about what that might be.

[Andrew Weissmann]

Also, how did they, you know, they issued a memo saying nothing to see here. You know, Pam, Bonnie had said, no, we're going to be completely transparent. You know, this is a whole cover up. There's a hoax blood. You know, this is something we really need to get to the bottom of. And then does a 180 and says nothing to see here. And there is a memo that's two pages saying there's absolutely nothing here, there's no evidence, there's nothing more to see. And now Todd Blanche is saying, well, we can't really know that because we didn't even have these documents. I mean, so to me, it undermines the whole idea that the Department of Justice is saying, oh no, we've cleared it, we've looked at everything. When what he is saying is, no, actually until the basic, obvious, fundamental step of gee, getting Jeffrey Epstein's emails, that was not done. I mean, it is astounding. How can you have any confidence that the Department of Justice is correct when they're saying we didn't even know about these. And again, that's assuming the truth of what he is saying.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Andrew Weissman, thank you very much for starting off our discussions tonight. You're welcome. Thank you. And coming up, the top Democrat on the House Judiciary Committee, Congressman Jamie Raskin, wants to get Todd Blanche under oath. That's next.

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[Lawrence O'Donnell]

In one of Jeffrey Epstein's emails during the second year of Donald Trump's first term in the presidency, Jeffrey Epstein wonders if his old friend has, quote, early dementia. In another epstein email in 2018, Jeffrey Epstein says this about Donald Trump. He feels alone and is nuts. I told everyone from day one, evil beyond belief, mad. And most thought I was speaking metaphorically. It's obvious he could crack Stormy Daniels. Lies after lies after lies. That is also during the second year of Donald Trump's presidency in his first term. And in another Jeffrey Epstein email to a reporter, when Donald Trump was a candidate for president In December of 2015, Jeffrey Epstein asks, would you like photos of Donald and girls in bikinis in my kitchen? To which the reporter says, yes. Joining us now is the Democratic Congressman Jamie Raskin, M.D. he is the top Democrat on the House Judiciary Committee. And Congressman Raskin, even before Todd Blanche's tweet today, you were trying to get Todd Blanche to actually deliver testimony to your committee. It seems that tweet with him willing to identify for you what isn't in the Epstein files is at least the beginning of possibly valuable testimony.

[Jamie Raskin]

Well, that's right. All these emails, of course, completely debunk and discredit what Ghislaine Maxwell told Todd Blanche when he went over and engaged in that sweetheart interview with her. Now, his defense to this, oh, we didn't have all of the emails from the Epstein estate. First of all, I find that almost impossible to believe. If you look at the index of what was seized by the FBI and includes 40 computers from Jeffrey Epstein, 26 storage drives for a total of just, I think it's more than 300 gigabytes of material. So the idea that his emails weren't in there is ridiculous. And of course, they probably didn't look. If they were in there, they never looked for them. Because the very first thing they did when they took over the Department of Justice was they summoned all of the prosecutors materials that had been assembled over the years and they declared the case over. They shut it down before they looked at anything. But let's assume that he knew what he was talking about and he was telling the truth, that they were not in there. Obviously, the thing to do now is to say, ok, we're going to have a second round of interviews with the witness here with Ghislaine Maxwell. Now that we have all of these emails that completely debunk and undermine what it was she was saying. But they're not going to make any movement in that direction, of course, because they just want the whole thing to go away. And all of it invites the question, in what capacity has he been acting? Is it as Donald Trump's personal criminal defense lawyer, or is it as the deputy Attorney General of the United States who's interested in protecting victims and future victims from a billion dollar child sex predator ring that operates or operated or has operated all over the world. And so, you know, maybe he was operating as Donald Trump's emissary to determine one, that she would say nothing untoward about Donald Trump and two, to see whether she was going to be cooperative enough to actually merit a pardon from Donald Trump. So he's acting kind of like a pardon attorney. Well, he obviously will do anything that Donald Trump tells him to do. I think what it is that Congress needs to do at this point is to say that we completely oppose a pardon for this convicted child sex offender who continues to lie about both Jeffrey Epstein and also about Donald Trump. If these emails were to be credited.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

JD Vance went on FOX tonight. This is he didn't say a word about this, wasn't asked a question about it. Obviously, that's why you go on fox. So there won't be any questions about this. But as we go forward here, what we've seen so far with J.D. vance, is he on this issue as of now? He used to try to defend Donald Trump on this stuff this week, totally silent about this. He's taken the Gerald Ford posture at this point.

[Jamie Raskin]

Well, yeah, as Donald Trump's pet chameleon. He will try to change his spots according to whatever the politics of the moment demand. And it will be interesting to see those who will, you know, stand with Trump till the end and those who will try to jump off in the nick of time. But look, this is like a deadly serious issue for the survivors, for the victims of this massive offense. They want to know the truth. They have a right to truth and justice as well as for others who haven't even come forward yet. This was a massive child sex abuse and trafficking ring which was covered up originally by Alex Acosta, who later gets rewarded with an appointment to the Trump cabinet as secretary of labor where Trump could keep a close eye on him. And the COVID up continued in the first Trump administration and it continues to this very day. The same people who were pretending to call for immediate release of the whole Epstein file, like Kash Patel, like Pam Bondi, are now totally in league with Donald Trump in trying to suppress the truth and the disclosure of all of these materials. But I think that we have a public momentum now and a political momentum in Congress that there's no turning back and the truth will be known.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Congressman Jamie Raskin, thank you very much for joining us tonight.

[Jamie Raskin]

You bet.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

And coming up, the reporter who got us to this point in this story with her reporting in the Miami Herald, investigative reporter Julie K. Brown. Without her, we wouldn't be covering this subject. We would know Nothing about it, probably at this point. She will join us next. Perversion of justice. The Jeffrey Epstein Story is the title of the 2021 book written by Julie K. Brown, investigative reporter with the Miami Herald. Julie K. Brown joins us now. Thank you very much for joining us tonight. Julie, what are you learning from these new Epstein emails?

[Julie K. Brown]

Well, like everybody else, it is somewhat, I think, newsworthy that Trump's name is mentioned so many times in this tranche of documents. It appears that his name is mentioned more than any other person except for Epstein himself in these documents and that some of these emails, it appears that Epstein is trying in some way to point out that Trump, Trump not only knew about his crimes, knew that he was recruiting girls and having sex with girls, but that he also alludes to the fact that Trump was in his house at times naming a victim that he had spent time with whose name was redacted, and also threatening in some respects to be able to have the information that would, quote, unquote, take Trump down. So it sounds as though in his own mind anyway, he believed that he had the goods on Trump.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Is this the Jeffrey Epstein who emerges in these emails? Is this the character who you have been studying with other sources?

[Julie K. Brown]

Yeah, I mean, this fits his MO all along. I mean, he is the kind of guy that, that, that really his currency is, number one, information. Number two, trying to get dirt on people. Number three, blackmailing people. I mean, this is how he operated his whole life, really. So this, this does, it is in character, these emails. And also, I mean, I don't think that he wrote these knowing that they were going to be on national television. You know, there would have been no reason for him except to possibly impress some of these other people. He was emailing that he had such a close relationship with Trump. But we do know that he did have a close relationship with Trump at some point. You know, so it is sort of, it's understandable that these people would be calling him. I mean, he had journalists, authors, financiers, bankers. There's a lot of them calling him for information on Trump.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Knowing what you do about the investigation of Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell, what is your reaction to Todd Blanche saying the federal investigation, apparently, according to him, never obtained these emails?

[Julie K. Brown]

Well, I have to say I've never been impressed by the federal investigation. I mean, that was part of the problem from the very beginning of this case. They never did a thorough investigation. In fact, I think that they actually tried to minimize the case so they wouldn't have to make it into a federal crime. They, they did downgrade it into a state level crime. So it in some ways wouldn't surprise me that they didn't have this, these emails on one hand. But on the other hand, I would think that as a deputy attorney general, you would do your due diligence and you would, would say, well, where are the communications? What did Maxwell say in the past? I think there's always been a bit of a concern that Blanche wasn't equipped to do this kind of questioning of Maxwell because, you know, you would really have to have, you know, a lot of help with this case because there's a lot of material. And he just, quite frankly, wasn't there long enough to be able to study this case as thoroughly as he needed to to do this kind questioning.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Julie K. Brown, thank you very much for joining us tonight.

[Julie K. Brown]

Thank you.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

We'll be right back. That is tonight's Last word. On Saturday, MSNBC will become Ms. Now.

[Jen Psaki]

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