Lawrence: Trump is using the government shutdown to shut down the Epstein files

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Trump is using the government shutdown to shut down the Epstein files"

The Last Word with Lawrence O’Donnell
Date: October 31, 2025
Host: Lawrence O’Donnell (MSNBC)

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Overview

In this episode, Lawrence O’Donnell leverages his experience in politics and media to dive into major current events, with a particular focus on the intersection of the ongoing U.S. government shutdown and the effort to keep the Epstein files from public release. The episode explores the symbolic fall of Prince Andrew, the strategic avoidance tactics of Donald Trump, and the downstream impact of U.S. federal policy both at home and abroad. Discussion also covers corruption in the justice system, the tragic fallout of international aid cuts, and profiles in political courage and betrayal.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Epstein Files and the Government Shutdown

Timestamp: [01:27]–[15:48]

• Lawrence opens with the latest on Virginia Giuffre’s successful pursuit of justice against Prince Andrew, whose royal titles have been stripped, and connects this to the broader legacy of Epstein’s crimes.
• O'Donnell points out that the monarchy’s sanctions are symbolic, “The truth is, a name change is not punishment. If you offered Jeffrey Epstein the option of being arrested and sent to prison as a child rapist or having to change his name, which do you think he would have chosen?” ([02:22])
• The episode centers on the claim that the current government shutdown is less about fiscal policy and more a cover to prevent the release of the Epstein files, which would expose connections to powerful individuals, including Trump.
• Congressman Robert Garcia and other House Democrats—and some Republicans—are trying to force the release of the files but are blocked by House leadership’s refusal to seat Adelita Grialva, whose vote would be decisive on a discharge petition to force a vote.

Memorable Quote:

• “We now have a shutdown because you are too scared of the truth.”—Lawrence O’Donnell ([08:35])

Jamie Raskin’s Perspective

Timestamp: [15:48]–[20:53]

• Rep. Jamie Raskin elaborates: the shutdown serves to both prevent government services from helping people, and to block justice for survivors of Epstein's crimes.
• Raskin exposes leniency in prison treatment for Ghislaine Maxwell after DOJ’s Todd Blanche visits her, suggesting it was less fact-finding and more assurance she wouldn’t implicate Trump: “She was transferred… to a very cushy plum camp in Texas after that visit.” ([16:57])
• Raskin suggests the Bureau of Prisons is acting as part of a “Trump Protect Ghislaine Maxwell team.” ([19:04])

Memorable Quote:

• “No one is to exercise their First Amendment rights about Ghislaine Maxwell. No one is to talk to the press about Ghislaine Maxwell.” – Jamie Raskin ([19:20])

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2. The Political Stakes of Health Care and Aid

Timestamp: [22:45]–[29:23]

Sherrod Brown on Health Care in Ohio

• Former Senator Sherrod Brown discusses his return to the electoral fray as Ohio’s health coverage is at risk due to new Senate leadership gutting the Affordable Care Act and Medicaid.
• Stories from constituents—including a self-employed veteran and a mother of a disabled child—highlight the real human cost of political decisions.

Memorable Quote:

• “[John Husted] looked her in the eye, said he won’t do it, and two weeks later, he did it.” – Sherrod Brown ([27:10])

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3. The Real-World Consequences of Foreign Policy Cuts

Timestamp: [30:35]–[40:26]

Stephanie Nolan on Health Crises in Somalia & Africa

• New York Times reporter Stephanie Nolan details catastrophic impacts of Trump administration’s cuts to global health aid, including spikes in child malnutrition, diphtheria, cholera, and maternal complications in Somalia.
• Local healthcare workers continue unpaid due to principle and devotion, but are overwhelmed.

Memorable Quotes:

• "Kids who got to the point of being acutely malnourished live with the consequences of that all their lives." — Stephanie Nolan ([37:56])
• “It can cost several hundred dollars to intervene to save an acutely malnourished child… the entire budget of the state of Somalia last year was $350 million.” ([39:14])

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4. The Selective Generosity of Trump’s Foreign Policy

Timestamp: [41:28]–[46:49]

Nicholas Kristof on U.S. Aid—From Somalia to Argentina

• Kristof contrasts Trump’s refusal to provide humanitarian aid to starving children in Africa with his sudden willingness to funnel massive financial support to Argentina, benefitting billionaire allies and U.S. hedge funds.
• Aid that once built American soft power and saved millions is now rerouted to benefit the wealthy.
• Kristof shares field stories: e.g., a starving child in Uganda receiving half a daily packet of life-saving peanut paste despite U.S. stockpiles sitting in storage; an inspiring Congolese refugee woman denied a wheelchair due to aid cuts.

Memorable Quotes:

• “It’s so heartbreaking when you go from reporting on kids dying for want of tiny amounts of nutritional support… and then you discover… the Trump administration does believe in foreign aid, but it's foreign aid to Argentina in ways that benefit billionaires.” ([41:37])
• “So USAID was saving maybe about 3 million lives a year… and now instead of weighing in more on that, we’re bailing out hedge fund investors in Argentina.” — Nicholas Kristof ([44:55])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “The difference between the Charles who calls himself a king and the Donald who wants to be one is that Donald Trump does not care what comes after him. Charles wants the monarchy to live forever. Donald Trump knows that all he has to do is keep the Epstein files secret for the next three and a half years.” – Lawrence O’Donnell ([04:53])
• “If the shutdown is not about the Epstein files, then prove it.” – Lawrence O’Donnell ([08:44])
• “She was transferred there on an overnight basis… Now that she's there, she's basically being treated like an honored guest at a Trump hotel rather than a federal prisoner.”—Jamie Raskin ([17:46])
• “Our trauma is not a pawn in your political games.” – Statement from Epstein/Maxwell Survivors ([14:45])
• “We fight for people that really need people that don’t always have government on their side.” – Sherrod Brown ([25:58])
• “Once you lose early intervention, kids show up much sicker and much harder to save.” – Stephanie Nolan ([37:56])
• “Meanwhile, the US owns 578,000 cases of this [peanut paste]… but isn’t sending to save the lives of little kids like this boy Fred. Maddening.” – Nicholas Kristof ([43:08])

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Important Timestamps

• [01:27]–[04:53]: Prince Andrew, the monarchy, and Epstein connections.
• [07:55]–[10:44]: Shutdown as cover for Epstein file suppression; Congressman Garcia’s campaign for transparency.
• [15:48]–[20:53]: Jamie Raskin on Ghislaine Maxwell’s special treatment and lack of accountability for Epstein’s co-conspirators.
• [22:45]–[29:23]: Senator Sherrod Brown on Ohio healthcare, the human side of policy, and campaign resolve.
• [30:35]–[40:26]: Stephanie Nolan on aid cuts in Somalia, malnutrition, and infectious diseases.
• [41:28]–[46:49]: Nicholas Kristof on foreign aid hypocrisy: from malnourished children to hedge funds.

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Summary Flow and Tone

Lawrence O’Donnell delivers incisive analysis with a characteristic blend of outrage, dry wit, and pointed moral clarity. Each guest—in particular Jamie Raskin, Sherrod Brown, Stephanie Nolan, and Nicholas Kristof—brings passion and first-hand expertise. The tone is earnest, sometimes indignant, always urgent, and deeply empathetic with those affected by the policies under discussion.

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For Listeners Who Haven’t Heard the Episode

This episode argues that the U.S. government shutdown is a deliberate effort to block the release of the Epstein files, protecting powerful interests—including Trump—at the cost of justice and good governance. Congress is deadlocked and House leadership uses procedural tricks to prevent a key vote. Meanwhile, survivors and voters are sidelined.

The show then shifts to the impact of federal policies at home, as Ohio’s Sherrod Brown describes the human effects of health care rollbacks, and abroad, as aid workers and journalists warn of mounting famine, disease, and unnecessary death due to sharply curtailed U.S. humanitarian support. Finally, the team highlights the administration’s contradictory enthusiasm for foreign aid when it stands to benefit billionaires and political allies, notably in Argentina, while cutting life-saving programs elsewhere.

Through all, O’Donnell and his guests insist on accountability, transparency, and justice—especially for those most vulnerable and most easily ignored.

Transcript

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

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[Jamie Raskin]

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[Lawrence O'Donnell]

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[Stephanie Nolan]

Download Today, the Last word with Lawrence.

[Nicholas Kristof]

O' Donnell starts right now. Hey, Lawrence.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Hey Jen. I have never been interviewed by the Times of London. So if anything shows up in there with my name, it's another one. Okay? It's another.

[Stephanie Nolan]

Are there other Lawrence Odello?

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Oh yeah, there's a bunch. Oh yeah, yeah. Just it's in phone books everywhere. Sure, they don't have phone books anymore, but you know what I mean. I've seen them. In fact, I get mail for one or two of them every few years. So they're out there.

[Stephanie Nolan]

Unless it's like, unless it quotes the West Wing or says something about the Senate or calls out Trump's buffoonery, then I won't be sure.

[Nicholas Kristof]

If it's not you that's the tricky thing.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

We'll see. Thanks, Jen.

[Stephanie Nolan]

Thanks, Lawrence.

[Jamie Raskin]

Thank you.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Well, today, an ordinary American girl from an ordinary American family brought down a British prince with her truth and extraordinary courage. That is the first sentence of a statement released by the family of a woman who accused the man who the British until today called Prince Andrew of raping her when she was 17 years old. The British press and the press around the world is reporting tonight what the New York Times calls an extraordinary punishment that that man named Andrew has now suffered at the hands of his brother who is the current claimant of the title King of England. His older brother, a so called king, had already taken his house away on the palace grounds and banished him to his still royal house. And today, finally, the absurd title has been removed. The extraordinary punishment the New York Times is referring to is that Andrew will no longer be called a prince, end quote, will now be known as Andrew Mountbatten Windsor. And while we're on the subject, Windsor is a fake name too. Windsor is an invented name used to mask the German heritage of the people who have been claiming the position of royal family in Britain for the entire 20th and 21st century. In 1917, in the middle of the First World War with England fighting against Germany, the so called British royal family decided to mask their German background by plucking from out of nowhere the classically English sounding name Windsor and suddenly claiming it as their own. The truth is, a name change is not punishment. If you offered Jeffrey Epstein the option of being arrested and sent to prison as a child rapist or having to change his name, which do you think he would have chosen? And so now the big punishment for Andrew is that no one in Britain will call him the Duke of York or His Royal Highness, which no sane person anywhere ever should have called him. None of those preposterous descriptors of that human being have ever been allowed on this program. He had his titles removed from him on this program. On the first mention of his disgraced name here. Nothing changed today. There was no new evidence for Andrew's older brother to suddenly react today. But the weight of Jeffrey Epstein's legacy forced the King of England to symbolically, and only symbolically distance himself from his deeply Epstein involved little brother. The manipulative so called king wants it both ways. He wants to suggest that there's a possibility that his little brother did not rape Virginia Giuffre as she claimed. And so the statement issued by the King's press release writers said these censures are deemed necessary, notwithstanding the fact that he continues to deny the allegations against him. And then the King's writers tell this lie about the rest of the family saying Their Majesties wish to make clear that their thoughts and utmost sympathies have been and will remain with the victims and survivors of any and all forms of abuse. Okay, then give them the houses on your country estates. You just gave your accused rapist little brother, another country house on your family's estates to live in for free for the rest of his life. And you claim that your utmost sympathies are not with your little brother, the accused rapist, but your utmost sympathies are with, quote, the victims and survivors of any and all forms of abuse. Do you mean any and all forms of abuse visited upon people around the world by the British Crown throughout its ugly history, or do you just mean the survivors of any and all forms of abuse delivered directly to them by individual members of your family. The New York Times points out today that Charles and his little brother have done quite a job on that whole concept of British support of a monarchy during their public lifetimes. In 2023, a poll of British social attitudes by the national center for Social research found that 54% of people surveyed said that it was very or quite important for Britain to have a monarchy, compared with 86% in 1983. That 86% support of a monarchy was in the second year of Charles first marriage to Diana, which ended miserably and helped drive support of the monarchy down every day, with Andrew then bursting into public view much later to drag it down into the mud from which we can hope it then sinks and disappears. The difference between the Charles who calls himself a king and the Donald who wants to be one is that Donald Trump does not care what comes after him. Charles wants the monarchy to live forever. Donald Trump knows that he cannot live forever. Donald Trump knows that his presidency cannot live forever. So Donald Trump knows that all he has to do is keep the Epstein files secret for the next three and a half years. And the intensity of Donald Trump's apparent need to keep the Epstein files secret becomes more vivid every day, especially with every new day of the government shutdown. Congressman Robert Garcia is a leader of the Democrats who have joined with some Republicans in the House of Representatives who are trying to have the Epstein files released. And he now sees the government shutdown as being as much or more about the Epstein files as it is about the federal budget.

[Jamie Raskin]

It's criminal. This is. It's outrageous that we have a duly elected member certified. The election has been certified by her own state.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

There's over 800,000 people in the state of Arizona with no representation in the.

[Jamie Raskin]

Congress because Mike Johnson is afraid of.

[Nicholas Kristof]

The Epstein files and is currently right.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Now playing cover up for Donald Trump and the White House.

[Jamie Raskin]

This idea that we now have a shutdown because they're too scared of the truth.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

They're too scared of getting justice for the survivors of women, women and girls that have been trafficked, as we know.

[Jamie Raskin]

In the past, by Jeffrey Epstein and other powerful men. And so this shutdown has become, I think, really emblematic of, of the corruption.

[Nicholas Kristof]

In the Republican Party.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

We now have a shutdown because you are too scared of the truth. The shutdown appeared to be about budget issues at the beginning, but as it drags on with absolutely no attempt to negotiate those budget issues, you have a right to Wonder what it is really about. And with the speaker of the House using the government shutdown as an excuse for not swearing in the newest elected member of the House of Representatives, who would become the decisive vote in the House to release the Epstein files gives Congressman Garcia more than enough evidence to reasonably argue that, quote, we now have a shutdown because you are too scared of the truth. If the shutdown is not about the Epstein files, then prove it. Speaker Johnson can swear in the newest elected member of the House of Representatives tomorrow, Adelita Grialva. And the only reason he is not doing that is that she would then immediately become the decisive vote to release the Epstein files. Technically, she would become the 218th signature on a so called discharge petition which forces a vote in the House of Representatives on releasing the Epstein files, a vote everyone knows will pass. And so Donald Trump travels the world avoiding any possible negotiation to end the shutdown. Because the shutdown shuts down the Epstein files. Donald Trump proves the pointlessness of his world travels whenever he talks about them. Today on Air Force One, after his meetings in China, he told reporters something that would be unthinkable for any other president in that situation. He said, quote, taiwan never came up. It was not discussed. Taiwan never came up. No kidding. It never comes up unless the American President brings it up. No Chinese dictator has ever jumped into a discussion on Taiwan unless forced to by an American president. And so Donald Trump is treating himself as just a spectator in the back of the room saying, Taiwan never came up. Don't know why, it just never came up. Thereby proving the utter pointlessness of the Trump world tour other than as a distraction from the Epstein files and a distraction from the cruelties that Donald Trump was inflicting around the world and at home every day. Of course, Taiwan never came up. It would only come up between, in a serious discussion between a President of the United States and a Chinese dictator. And that is not what was happening. Donald Trump said he was going to change his illegal and unconstitutional tariff structure with China, leaving most of the illegal and unconstitutional tariffs in place. And he did that a week before the United States Supreme Court will hear the first case brought to them challenging the illegal and unconstitutional Trump tariffs. This week is the worst week for Donald Trump to be playing arbitrary public games with his tariffs, showing how non policy based they actually are. But that is how confident he is that the Supreme Court he appointed will let him do what he wants to do. Donald Trump must believe that his Supreme Court will find a way to change the Constitution for him and Remove Congress's exclusive constitutionally granted power by the founders to set tariffs. Donald Trump was asked no questions today about Jeffrey Epstein. White House reporters know that asking a question about Jeffrey Epstein means two things. They won't get an answer and they won't get another question. So they asked no questions about the British reaction to what appears to be the release of Virginia Roberts Giuffre's memoir, titled Nobody's A Memoir of Surviving Abuse and Fighting for Justice. Virginia Giuffre survived Jeffrey Epstein's abuse and Ghislaine Maxwell's physical abuse of her as long as she could. But she ended her own life in April of this year, leaving her co author to complete her book that has just been released. But Donald Trump flying around the world to avoid the pressure of the Epstein files, while the British monarchy fears their own collapse under the pressure of the Epstein files and Virginia Giuffre's memoir. With all of that happening, her family released a statement today saying, quote, today an ordinary American girl from an ordinary American family brought down a British prince with her truth and extraordinary courage. Virginia Roberts Giuffre, our sister, a child when she was sexually assaulted by Andrew, never stopped fighting for accountability for what had happened to her and to countless other survivors like her. Today, she declares victory. We, her family, along with her survivor sisters, continue Virginia's battle and will not rest until the same accountability applies to all of the abusers and abettors connected to Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell. Today, over 20 survivors of the abuse visited upon them by Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell urged the House of Representatives to swear in the newest elected member of the House and allow her to become the deciding vote on the Epstein files. Their statement says the continued refusal to seat her is an unacceptable breach of democratic norms and a disservice to the American people. Even more concerning to us as survivors, this deliberately appears to be a deliberate attempt to block her participation in the discharge petition that would force a vote to unseal the Epstein Maxwell files. The American public has a right to transparency and accountability, and we as survivors deserve justice. Any attempt to obstruct a vote on this matter by manipulating House procedure or denying elected members their seats is a direct affront to that right and adds insult to our trauma. Speaker Johnson must stop using procedural tactics to protect the powerful and instead uphold the integrity of our democratic institutions. Our trauma is not a pawn in your political games. Every day you stall is another day survivors are denied justice and the American people are denied the truth. Swear in Representative Realva and let democracy speak. Leading off our discussion tonight is Democratic Congressman Jamie Raskin of Maryland. He is the top ranking Democrat on the House Judiciary Committee. Carson Raskin, at first, the shutdown seemed like a shutdown. It seemed like one of those budget impasse situations that happens. It's happened repeatedly since. Republicans have become extremists in their approach to congressional negotiations and refused to negotiate for some period of time. But as it drags on, behaving like no other shutdown in history, with absolutely no attempt at negotiations, with the House of Representatives completely shut down, is it reasonable to wonder if the shutdown might be about something else?

[Jamie Raskin]

Certainly from Donald Trump's perspective. I mean, look, they don't want the government to be serving any of the purposes that democratic government is supposed to engage in. They don't want it delivering public health to our people. They don't want it delivering nutrition and food benefits to hungry people. And they certainly don't want government delivering justice to these wonderful survivors, the victims of the whole Epstein Maxwell conspiracy who are demanding that the truth come out and that the people who perpetrated these crimes be held accountable, whether they're in banks or whether they directly participated in the sexual abuse and the trafficking the way that Ghislaine Maxwell did.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

So we've seen that Andrew has gotten basically a transfer of sorts in his housing arrangements in England. Ghislaine Maxwell is faring in her way much better since she's moving up in her treatment that she's getting while she at least is now still in federal custody.

[Jamie Raskin]

Right you are. And thank you for that beautiful anti monarchical statement you made at the beginning of your show, whether the monarchies in England are the aspiring monarchs of the U.S. but look, Ghislaine Maxwell was transferred from her original sentenced confinement to a very cushy plum camp in Texas after that visit, you'll recall from Todd Blanche, who's the number two at the Department of Justice, and he went over to satisfy himself that Ghislaine Maxwell had all of the right things to say and to not say about Donald Trump. He wasn't going over there to investigate her and to get her to talk about who the other co conspirators were. He wasn't looking for the other people who had victimized all of the girls and young women. No, he was just trying to satisfy himself that she wasn't going to implicate Trump in any way. And when he pronounced himself satisfied after two days of questioning, then she had this extraordinary transfer as somebody implicated in a Sex trafficking, conspiracy, sex offenders are not normally allowed in this camp. She was transferred there on an overnight basis. I mean, even people who are ordinarily eligible have to go through months long process to demonstrate a compelling reason for why they need to be transferred from one facility to another. Now, what we've discovered is now that she's there, she's basically being treated like an honored guest at a Trump Hotel rather than a federal prisoner. And the other prisoners who are objecting to all of the pampered and privileged treatment she's receiving are being punished. And at least one of them was transferred out of the prison to a much harsher facility when she objected to the fact that this was a prison only for nonviolent offenders and sex trafficking is a violent offense. And Ghislaine Maxwell was herself directly implicated in the abuse of the girls who she helped to procure for Jeffrey Epstein.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

So you have found that the, the Bureau of Prisons and the warden in particular in this new facility seem to be now part of the Trump Protect Ghislaine Maxwell team.

[Jamie Raskin]

Well, that's what we're looking into. And we've written a letter asking some very tough questions because there are reports that she gets visitors who get to come and see her in a way that other prisoners don't, that she has different kinds of food privileges. She basically gets room service there. No other prisoner has food brought to their cell. Apparently, she's getting that particular amenity in her stay there. She gets to take showers at times when it's not available to other prisoners. And she gets completely extraordinary treatment. And when the other prisoners have objected, they have been punished in different ways. And they have received warnings that no one is to exercise their First Amendment rights about Ghislaine Maxwell. No one is to talk to the press about Ghislaine Maxwell. So we have demanded the right to go in. We want to send our House investigators over there to talk to inmates and to find out what's going on. Why is there this double standard, this extraordinary double standard being provided to a person who refused to testify when she was prosecuted, presumably has lots of information that the government should be interested in for reasons of justice, not for reasons of protecting Donald Trump.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

And the one time she ever spoke in court was at her sentencing hearing, and she did not deny a single element of the accusations against her. Congressman Jamie Raskin, thank you very much for starting off our coverage tonight.

[Jamie Raskin]

You bet.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

And coming up, Ohio Senator Sherrod Brown lost his reelection campaign last year in Ohio by three points. And with the Affordable Care act under attack and 1.4 million people in Ohio depending on food stamps for survival. Sherrod Brown is a candidate for United States Senate again and he will join us next. Hey there, it's Dr. Sanjay Gupta with some exciting news to share. CNN is now streaming. That means you can read, watch and stream everything in one subscription. You can watch news live 24 7. You can also explore catch up videos and explainer videos. And you can also watch the library of CNN's originals, including my latest documentary.

[Nicholas Kristof]

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[Lawrence O'Donnell]

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[Jamie Raskin]

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[Lawrence O'Donnell]

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[Stephanie Nolan]

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[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Show employers what you know, upskill for the career you [e-mail].

[Stephanie Nolan]

Now back to.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Your regularly scheduled listening three term Ohio Senator Sherrod Brown lost his reelection campaign last year by three points. In 2009, he had the honor of being one of the Democrats in the Senate who made history by being on the winning side and a vote to significantly increase health care coverage in America for the first time in 45 years. At that time, President Obama's Affordable Care act that Senator Brown voted for was the first significant expansion of government supported health care in this country since Medicare was passed into law in 1965. With the Affordable Care act under attack now by Donald Trump and the Republican Senate, Sherrod Brown wants to get back in the Senate to preserve and protect and improve the Affordable Care Act. And so he is running for Ohio's other Senate seat, which is up for election next year. Joining us now is former Democratic Senator Sherrod Brown of Ohio who is once again a candidate for United States Senate. Senator Brown, I was thinking about that opportunity you had to cast that Historic vote earlier tonight. And one of the things I was thinking about are all the senators who between 1965 and 2009 came and went in the United States Senate hoping that they could be part of a vote like that, hoping that they could get something like that, that kind of expansion into legislative language and passed into law. What did it feel like when you did it and did you expect that the turbulence around that effort would actually then continue after it became law?

[Sherrod Brown]

Well, we all knew what the fight was. Just like how the insurance companies 40 years earlier had fought against creating Medicare and there was opposition until there wasn't this time. We knew that people like John Husted, who was then a state politician, would continue to fight against it and, and try to eliminate. I had a meeting, I met with a number of people today because these are numbers in many ways, until, you know, their Medicaid. John Husted's vote on Medicaid will mean the deciding vote will mean 490,000 Ohioans will lose their insurance. I wanted to meet people and see what they said. One of the first people I was a gentleman named Drew. I believe he's a Marine, he was a veteran, he has his own business, self employed, he's an exterminator. And he said Saturday, when these numbers come out, he is virtually certain that he will lose. He'll have to drop his health insurance because he can't afford it. A veteran, a self employed businessman that wants to, that wants to make his country better, that wants to provide for his family. John Husted has stood against that to simply say, no, we're not going to continue those efforts, those subsidies. So Drew loses an insurance. I mean, that's why I'm running for the Senate. As you said, that's why people should come to Sherrodbrown.com and help with 10 or 15 or 20 bucks because the other side's got plenty of money. Wall street insurance companies, oil companies, drug companies.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

We win.

[Sherrod Brown]

And I've won nine out of 10 federal elections in my life. We win because we fight for people that really need people that don't always have government on their side.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

You know, I used to have all 100 senators names in my head at all times. I had to actually look it up today to remember the name of the senator who you've just mentioned who was appointed to fill J.D. vance's seat after J.D. vance went to the vice presidency. So Ohio has an appointed senator there who, as this possibility of running out of supplemental nutrition program in Ohio is looming, apparently thinks his job is to do nothing about it.

[Sherrod Brown]

Well, he's done something about it. When he was in state government, he spent his time, frankly, fighting for special interests, working with special interests. Now he's in Washington. He's doing the same thing. He stood by when actually one of the women. There's a mother and daughter, Sarah and Audrey, that were there today, and they rely on Medicaid because of their daughter's disability. She has a job. She works. Her family works. They're doing everything they can. She met with the new senator, John Husted, and he promised. She told him her situation. He promised her. He promised her that he wouldn't cut Medicaid. Two weeks later, he voted. He was the deciding vote on the big beautiful bill that dramatically cut Medicaid that will throw people for half a million, almost Ohioans off of Medicaid, millions around the country, that will cut services for those who have severely disabled children. He looked her in the eye, said he won't do it, and two weeks later, he did it. So that's why, that's what Ohio. Why Ohio needs a senator that will actually fight for health insurance, fight to keep prices low, will go after those corporate special interests that raise drug prices, that raise prices at the grocery store. All the things that, that frankly make people rightly think the system is rigged against them. And it's even worse now, a year, a year later.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Senator, what's the difference between your last election and this next one that makes you think you can make up those three points that you needed last time around?

[Sherrod Brown]

Well, last election, not to get too much in the weeds. Donald Trump won my state by 12 points. I ran way ahead of that of our nominee, but I couldn't run far enough ahead. I lost by three, as you pointed out. Big difference is John Husted has come to the Senate and he is fronted for special interest after special interest. He votes essentially to throw a half million people off health insurance. He votes essentially to close 10 or 11 or 12 projections, 10 or 11 or 12 rural hospitals. He votes against veterans benefits. He stands by and does nothing when these cuts are coming to snap to food stamps. And he stood by and done nothing. I guess he just figures they'll vote for him anyway. Farmers, when he, when we. A year ago, American farmers bought 12 sold $12 billion of soybeans to China. This year after harvest, it's zero. So he stands by when. I mean, Ohio's gonna need somebody that's gonna advocate for farmers, advocate for consumers, advocate for health care. And John Hustein, ain't it Sherrod Brown.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Thank you very much for joining us tonight. Thanks. Thank you. And coming up, the New York Times is one of the only news organizations in the world with the resources and expertise to cover the damage Donald Trump is doing around the world, especially to the poorest people in the world. That's next with New York Times global health reporter Stephanie Nolan. It's Cybersecurity awareness month and LifeLock is here with tips to help protect your identity. Use strong passwords, set up multi factor authentication and report phishing scams. And for comprehensive identity protection, Lifelock is your best choice. LifeLock alerts you to suspicious uses of your personal information and also fixes identity theft, guaranteed or your money back. Stay smart, stay safe and stay protected with a 30 day free trial at LifeLock. Terms apply at Maurices. We're all about great jeans.

[Stephanie Nolan]

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[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Good because you don't just wear jeans, you live in them.

[Stephanie Nolan]

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[Lawrence O'Donnell]

At Marisa's.com a better help ad October 10th is World Mental Health Day and this year we're saying thank you therapists. Behind every supportive moment and small win is the therapist who showed up and made a difference. BetterHelp has supported over 5 million people globally on their mental health journeys. With 12 plus years experience and the world's largest online network of qualified therapists, it's easy to match with the one that's right for you. See for yourself. Visit betterhelp.com for 10% off your first month. With most of the White House press corps continuing to fail you every day in their coverage of Donald Trump, the truth about what Donald Trump is doing is being exposed by much better reporters far from Washington, including the Boston Globe Spotlight Team, who are accurately and admirably depicted in the 2015 Oscar winning film Spotlight. This week, the Spotlight team exposed a raid by the Trump Drug Enforcement Administration in the smallest city in New Hampshire in which the Trump DEA claimed they were rounding up important players, high level players in an international drug cartel, when in fact they were rounding up tragically exploited drug users, including a young man who was a graduate of the local high school whose father told the Globe that his son Tyler, who was immediately released by local police without having to post bail, isn't a high ranking member of anything. He's high ranking dumb. The people who have suffered the most as a result of Trump policies are people much farther away who had no chance of ever coming to the United States. The best estimates indicate that hundreds of thousands of those people are now dead, thanks to Elon Musk and Donald Trump's decision to stop delivering food aid in the middle of a famine in Sudan and to stop delivering life saving medicines and vaccines in poor countries through the United States Agency for International Development. It's what Bill Gates called the richest person in the world killing the poorest people in the world. And now the New York Times is reporting that a diphtheria outbreak is underway in Somalia thanks to Donald Trump's decision supporting, supported by the most crazed anti vaccination madman in the history of American government, to withdraw support for vaccination in the region. In 1901, the first Nobel Prize in Medicine was awarded to Emil von Behring for his work on diphtheria, which was then a leading cause of childhood death in the United States. Every parent in America feared diphtheria 100 years ago. Every parent woke up every day fearing diphtheria and went to sleep every night fearing diphtheria. During World War II in Europe, there were a million cases of diphtheria resulting in 50,000 deaths. Now in the United States, thanks to vaccination, diphtheria is no longer a threat. We go years now in this country thanks to vaccination without a single case of diphtheria. And because vaccination is invisibly allowing us to completely forget about diphtheria in this country, the most incompetent and stupidest governing officials of our lifetimes in this country are allowed to ignore the power of vaccination, the New York Times reports. The swift American exit from Somalia, a country gripped by twin menaces of recurring drought and Islamist insurgency, where the United States has long seen a strong geopolitical reason for partnership, has created chaos all through the country's health system, the Times reports. At Bay Regional Hospital, admissions for malnutrition were up by 40% by July compared with January, said Dr. Abduli Yousef, the facility's medical director. They used to see children with diphtheria once or twice a year, but there have been 50 cases in the last three months. Children who come are much sicker, he said, and pregnant women arrive with life threatening conditions. Dr. Youssef said the situation was not sustainable. The aid organization Save the children was operating 128 community health facilities across Somalia and had to close 47 of them in March, leaving more than 300,000 people without without health and nutrition services. The International Medical Corps closed medical centers in four regions of the country, including Bedoa, a sprawling sun bleached city of 750,000 hosting some 770,000 displaced people. U.S. support for the United Nations World Food Program, which supplies fortified milks and therapeutic peanut paste for malnourished children, was reduced. Nicholas Kristof of the New York Times has told us repeatedly on this program how that therapeutic peanut paste has been used for years to save the lives of children he has seen in Africa facing starvation. The New York Times global health reporter Stephanie Nolan spoke with health care workers in Africa who lost their jobs because of the Trump funding cuts but still volunteer to work. A nurse midwife told Stephanie Nolan, quote, we decided now it is time to work for the community. Despite the fact that we have no salary, we feel a responsibility to come to work. Joining us now is Stephanie Nolan, global health reporter for the New York Times. First of all, thank you very much for your coverage on this. This is something that very few news organizations left in this world are capable of of doing, and we would have no information about this without you. What would you say are the most important things you've learned in your most recent investigation in Africa about what has happened as a result of all of this cutback of the American commitment there?

[Stephanie Nolan]

Well, thanks for having me and thanks for the question that really has become the work of my year to try to chronicle, to investigate actually what the impacts of these cuts are, because we could speculate a lot about what it might mean. But I've been trying as much as possible to go to different places that were quite reliant on US Support previously and to see now what that looks like. And the answer is that it's mixed. There are countries that have managed to cobble together the resources to fill some of the gaps. But one of the reasons I thought it was important to go to Somalia is that of course this is one of the poorest countries in the world, one of the most fragile, and consequently one that was the most dependent on the United States. And we've been hearing bits and pieces about what the loss of food aid means, what the loss of health care means. But to actually go there was really stark. And what's been lost is a really simple thing. Previously there was money for community health workers and midwives and people who went door to door and who looked for kids who seemed a bit too thin or kids who'd been coughing a bit too long or women, pregnant women who didn't look great and got them care before they were very sick, before they were very weak, before children were acutely malnourished. And with the aid cuts, with at least 40% of the assistance gone, probably more, although it's still quite hard to tell because it's still kind of shaking out, that's gone. And so you don't catch some of these kids and when they are found or when their parents do bring them, you know, manage to take them quite long distances to facilities. They're very, very thin and they're very, very sick. And pregnant women are coming in with late stage complications in labor. And there are still some of them getting caught by that last emergency net of intervention. But of course, it's much harder and much more expensive to intervene at that point. And kids who got to the point of being acutely malnourished live with the consequences of that all their lives.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Yeah. And that's what the doctor says in this, is that they're arriving. When they do arrive into the system now it's so late in the development of their health issues that it is not a sustainable situation to try to maintain this kind of intervention at that late stage.

[Stephanie Nolan]

It's much more expensive. It costs a couple bucks to run, you know, per child to run a feeding program in the community. It can cost several hundred dollars to intervene to save an acutely malnourished child, which doesn't maybe sound like very much, but like the whole, the entire budget of the state of Somalia last year was $350 million. Right. And almost all of went on defense. The health budget is basically nothing. So if you're talking about a couple hundred dollars per head to use to save these children, there's just there aren't those resources. And then the other thing that happens is that you have kids who are much more malnourished, who are therefore have much less immunity and they're much more vulnerable to infectious disease. And that's why, you know, you mentioned diphtheria a minute ago. That's why you have this sudden surge in infectious diseases that primarily affect children. So diphtheria is raging in Somalia, but so is whooping cough, so is, so is cholera. So all of these things are so much more deadly for kids who have no defenses left.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

And it was prior to this year so easy for this government to be able to helpfully intervene and prevent so much of this. Stephanie Nolan, thank you very much for your invaluable reporting.

[Stephanie Nolan]

Thank you very much.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

And coming up, New York Times columnist Nicholas Kristof, who has recently returned from Africa, asks why Donald Trump wants to help only one country in this world, Argentina. That's next. New York Times columnist Nicholas Kristof writes. So why would Trump spend so much money to try to make Argentina great? In part to try to rescue a right wing Trumpian ally. The bailout could also significantly benefit a number of wealthy American hedge fund investors, including two billionaire friends of Treasury Secretary Scott Besant, who previously worked with him. Joining us now, Nicholas Kristof, Pulitzer Prize winning journalist and columnist for the New York Times. And Nick, we've been waiting. I mean, I guess I didn't realize we were waiting for this juxtaposition cuz I didn't realize there was a country that Donald Trump was suddenly going to open his heart to who knew that.

[Nicholas Kristof]

He actually believed in foreign aid, that.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

We could say, well, yes, 40 billionaires, the entire budget of USAID, just give it to one country. That's the plan.

[Nicholas Kristof]

You know, it's so heartbreaking when you go from reporting on kids dying for want of, you know, tiny amounts of nutritional support or for want of a $2 bed net to protect from malaria and then you discover, oh well, actually the Trump administration does believe in foreign aid, but it's foreign aid to Argentina in ways that benefit billionaires. And it's just, you know, it's just so frustrating. You just want to bang your head against a wall.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

LAWRENCE we just heard Stephanie Nolan talking about what you've been teaching us about for a long time here. And that is that that life saving peanut paste that you can give to a kid who you can find who is actually starving to death. Actually there's a lot that they can't consume at that stage. That's but the peanut paste is something they can get down, couldn't be cheaper for us to provide and we took it away.

[Nicholas Kristof]

That's right. And you know, I met this little six month old child in Uganda, a Congolese refugee in Uganda who was starving and near death. And he should at that point have gotten two of these little tiny foil packets of peanut paste. And because they were running out, so they could only give him half of a packet a day. And meanwhile, the US owns 578,000 cases of this stuff that it has purchased and that it is paying $10,000 a day storage costs on in the US but isn't sending to save the lives of little kids like this boy Fred. Maddening.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

And back to this Argentina balance where it really is 40 billion it really is the amount that they cut from USAID, it's like the same number all around the world that was doing the entire world. What are the benefits we're going to get from what Donald Trump is doing in Argentina versus the benefits that we got that we actually got from what USAID was doing around the world.

[Nicholas Kristof]

So USAID was saving maybe about 3 million lives a year. It was building goodwill around the world, and I mean, in ways that actually bolster our national security as well. It was also bolstering our national security in the sense of providing health surveillance. So new diseases. It's a lot cheaper to fight Ebola in West Africa than it is here in the US but you have to know what's happening. Exactly, exactly. So this was doing good, but it was also in our interests as well as our values. So conversely, you look at Argentina, so what will that do? Well, most people think that that money is effectively down the drain. It's supporting the Argentine currency, which is overvalued, and so it will temporarily provide a lift to that currency that will help President Milei, that will provide him some political benefit to a friend of the president. But mostly it will provide an opportunity for wealthy Argentine and American investors who've invested in, in peso denominated instruments, stocks or debt, give them a chance to get out and earn some money on the way out. And it's just lies. National security. If we invest in usaid, we're bailing out some very, very wealthy investors. That's the choice we have, and that's the choice the administration made.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

So we have a government shutdown here. We have workers who aren't alone allowed to go to work around the country in many positions. And here you see in Africa, Stephanie Nolan reporting to us that health care workers who now have no income because all the funding has been cut and they still go to work because they.

[Nicholas Kristof]

Know they're saving lives. You know, and the courage and commitment. You know, people sometimes think it's incredibly depressing to see this, and, and obviously on one hand it is, but you also see the courage and this indomitable spirit of these people. There was a woman called Anna I met from Congo, this refugee who had been gang raped and brutalized. She was crippled. They took away her wheelchair. She crawled from Congo to Uganda with her small baby. And you just think of what this woman could accomplish. But now she gets to a refugee camp and because of US aid cut, she can't get a wheelchair. You know, just a simple thing like a wheelchair for this incredible woman. Incredible inspiring woman.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Yeah, that is the world. I was in Malawi all of last week and what you see there in other countries, these are the hardest working people in the world and so working within a world of deprivation, but so inspiring to see that they are unstoppable.

[Nicholas Kristof]

And it has made a great partnership where we have worked with people there by providing community health workers, by providing an education, by letting girls actually learn to be literate, to get jobs, raise their kids. And it has been an amazing partnership that has reduced child mortality by half over the last 20 years. It's done so much good for the world. And now instead of weighing in more on that, we're bailing out hedge fund investors in Argentina.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Nick Kristof, thank you very much for your invaluable reporting. As always, Nicholas Kristof gets tonight's last word.

[Stephanie Nolan]

What are you doing in a meeting?

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

That could have been an email. That's right, you're losing interest.

[Stephanie Nolan]

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[Lawrence O'Donnell]

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[Stephanie Nolan]

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[Lawrence O'Donnell]

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[Stephanie Nolan]

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