Lawrence: Trump looking away from a man in need should be the portrait for his second term

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Last Word with Lawrence O’Donnell

Episode Title: Trump looking away from a man in need should be the portrait for his second term
Date: November 7, 2025
Host: Lawrence O’Donnell, MSNBC
Main Guests: Senator Amy Klobuchar, Jared Bernstein, Norm Ornstein

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Main Theme

This episode of The Last Word with Lawrence O’Donnell dissects President Donald Trump’s ongoing government shutdown, highlighting its impact on American aviation, food assistance, and economic stability. With his signature blend of policy detail and sharp critique, O’Donnell uses a poignant incident—Trump turning away from an aide collapsing in the Oval Office—as a metaphor for the president’s broader disregard for Americans in distress. The episode features in-depth discussions with Senator Amy Klobuchar, economic advisor Jared Bernstein, and historian Norm Ornstein, tying Trump's leadership failures to recent Democratic victories at the polls and the dire consequences felt by ordinary people.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. A Defining Image: Trump Turns Away (01:56–05:45)

• The Incident: During a White House meeting with pharmaceutical execs, a man collapses. Medical professionals, including Dr. Oz, rush to help. Trump looks, then deliberately turns away, appearing oblivious.
  • O’Donnell’s Commentary (03:15):
    “Donald Trump, a person without a single sympathetic instinct, stood staring straight ahead as if pretending that whatever suffering the man behind him was experiencing wasn’t happening.”
• Metaphor for Governance: O’Donnell links this image to Trump’s ongoing neglect—ignoring Americans suffering from the shutdown, threatened SNAP benefits, and reduced aid to Africa.
  • Memorable Quote (05:32):
    “That is the picture of the Trump presidency. That should be the Trump second term official portrait. Portrait of Donald Trump standing mindlessly staring straight ahead, wondering when he will next get to play golf, maybe while a man's feet are in the air behind him being picked up by other people who have the capacity to care about another human being in distress.”

2. Trump’s Response to National Crises (05:45–09:45)

• Air Travel Chaos: Trump’s shutdown threatens to derail holiday travel with potential mass delays and cancellations due to underfunded air traffic control.
  • Trump “did nothing about it today. If you’re worried about your airline reservations, Donald Trump isn’t.”
• Policy Callousness: Trump is accused of “doing nothing” for people worried about food security, healthcare, or affordable travel.
  • Trump praised Elon Musk for slashing international aid, leading to “the deaths of 600,000 people, two thirds of them children.” (06:10–07:10)
• Ignored Accountability: O’Donnell contrasts Trump’s actions with hypothetical responses by Biden, Obama, and Bush, who “would have gotten physically involved.”

3. Tariffs: Trump’s Fact-Free Defense (09:00–10:49)

• Tariffs as Taxes: Supreme Court, including Chief Justice Roberts and Amy Coney Barrett, state tariffs are taxes on Americans, which Trump denies.
  • Memorable Exchange (09:59):
    Reporter: “Do you agree then that Americans are paying those tariffs?”
    Trump: “I think no, I don’t agree. I think that they might be paying something.”
  • O’Donnell: “That is a lie. That is actually trillions of lies.”
• Media Critique: O’Donnell mocks Washington media for valuing Trump’s willingness to answer questions despite nonsensical answers.
• Supreme Court’s Likely Rejection: Even conservative sources expect the court to rule Trump’s tariffs illegal and unconstitutional, debunking Trump’s claims of “trillions” in tariff revenue.

4. Absurd Prosecution: The ‘Assault with a Sandwich’ Case (11:55–15:15)

• Failed Trump-Era Prosecution: Spotlight on the farcical federal trial of Shawn Dunn, tried for “assault” with a wilting sandwich during a protest. Jury acquits swiftly.
  • O’Donnell lambasts Trump’s “deployment of forces” to pursue non-issues while ignoring urgent crises.

5. Obliviousness and Elite Indifference (16:00–18:00)

• Trump World ‘Above It All’: O’Donnell outlines Trump and his cabinet’s detachment, with private jets and marble bathrooms, indifferent to canceled flights or public hardship.
  • Cabinet, such as Kristi Noem, “ordered new private jets ... in a federal budget that Donald Trump thinks cannot afford to fund food stamps.”

6. Democratic Response: Amy Klobuchar Interview (19:19–23:41)

• Impact on Minnesota & Nationwide
  • Klobuchar notes Minnesota’s air travel hubs and smaller feeder airports could be shut down due to the Republican-led shutdown (19:19).
  • Quote (19:19):
    “While he is so oblivious and showing his marble bathrooms, the American people aren’t oblivious. And they spoke in a big voice ... You wrote the Art of the Deal. Show us your stuff, come to the table like every other president has done when there’s ... a threat of a shutdown, and he stays in that White House in his marble bathroom.”
• Negotiating Roadblocks:
  • Congress could immediately fund air traffic controllers, but the Republican House is absent (20:51).
  • Shutdown is also about blocking release of the "Epstein files," avoiding a vote that would expose them (21:45–22:28).
  • Klobuchar: “If your flight gets canceled, think about Mike Johnson, Republican speaker of the House, and his protecting of the Epstein files.” (23:02)

7. Economic Consequences: Labor Market and Jobs (24:45–34:12)

• Job Cuts & Economic Gloom:
  • Over 1.1 million jobs cut in 2025, a 65% increase YoY; layoffs surged to recessionary levels (24:45–26:45).
  • Layoffs blamed on “Department of Government Efficiency,” Trump's policies, and government shutdown impacts on contractors.
  • Comparison to Biden’s record: “Since I took office, the economy has created more than 16 million jobs, with jobs created every single month.”
• Jared Bernstein Interview (29:21–34:12):
  • Inherited Economy: Trump was handed “a very strong economy” and “squandered that inheritance ... with tariffs, with chaos...” (29:21)
  • Tariffs Hike Prices: Tariffs increase inflation; food prices (coffee up 20%, beef, etc.) are much higher year-over-year.
  • Supreme Court Got It Right: Even conservative justices recognized tariffs as taxes; Trump's framing of trade deficits as emergencies debunked (31:14).
    • Bernstein (31:14):
      “No economist, unless they’re paid to think otherwise, would call that an economic emergency.”
  • Public Feels Reality: Americans are not fooled by Trump’s claims, as reflected in the election results (“big blue wave”) repudiating Trump's false economic narrative.
    • Bernstein (33:49):
      “They don’t need to look at government data to know how the economy’s doing ... that big blue wave was very much a repudiation of the false reality within which the Trump administration lives.”

8. Political Fallout: Shutdown and Republican Losses (35:09–46:00)

• Elise Stefanik's Gubernatorial Bid:
  • After coast-to-coast Republican losses, Rep. Elise Stefanik plans to run for NY Governor, hoping to overcome strong Democratic incumbency (35:27).
  • Stefanik called out for failing to address the shutdown's impact on NY airports or oppose Trump’s SNAP cuts.
• Democratic Messaging:
  • Rep. Hakeem Jeffries: “We will not support a partisan Republican spending bill that continues to gut the health care of the American people.” (38:59)
• Norm Ornstein Analysis (41:08–45:13):
  • Historic Losses: Dem wins in VA, NJ, MS, GA create dynamic for GOP capitulation.
  • Ornstein optimistic that “we’re going to see a fairly prompt resolution of this [shutdown] ... and the elections help.”
  • Ornstein (43:41):
    “...the contrast between the parties, one that wants to make government work for people, the other that wants to blow the whole thing up.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• O’Donnell on Trump’s Oval Office Reaction (03:15):
  “Donald Trump, a person without a single sympathetic instinct, stood staring straight ahead as if pretending that whatever suffering the man behind him was experiencing wasn’t happening.”

• Trump (via O’Donnell, on tariffs) (09:59):
  "I think no, I don’t agree. I think that they might be paying something."

• Amy Klobuchar on public outcry (19:19):
  “While he is so oblivious and showing his marble bathrooms, American people aren’t oblivious. And they spoke in a big voice ... across the country.”

• Jared Bernstein on Trump’s economic management (29:21):
  “He did what he’s done before—squandered that inheritance. In this case, with tariffs, with chaos, with attacks on the Federal Reserve…”

• Norm Ornstein (41:08):
  “This has put Republicans back on their heels ... I believe we’re going to see a fairly prompt resolution of this [shutdown].”

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:53: O’Donnell and guest reminisce about the iconic Pelosi-Trump photo
• 01:56–05:45: Trump turns away from collapse in Oval Office; metaphor for presidency
• 09:00–10:49: Trump confronted by press (and Supreme Court) on tariffs
• 11:55–15:15: “Assault with a Sandwich” trial farce
• 19:19–23:41: Sen. Amy Klobuchar on air travel, Republican House absence, and shutdown politics
• 24:45–34:12: Bernstein on Trump’s inherited economy, tariffs, and inflation
• 35:09–38:59: Analysis of Republican election losses, Elise Stefanik’s prospects
• 41:08–45:13: Norm Ornstein on political fallout, potential for shutdown resolution

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Tone & Language

The episode carries Lawrence O’Donnell’s passionate, acerbic critique—interspersed with policy explanations, deep institutional knowledge, and a few moments of dark humor. Guests echo the urgency and frustration of a government paralyzed by political brinkmanship with real and immediate consequences for ordinary Americans.

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Useful For:

• Listeners wanting a comprehensive catch-up on the current government shutdown, its symbolism, policy impacts, and political ramifications.
• Those interested in the broader context of Trump’s leadership style and 2025 political landscape.
• Anyone curious about how this episode’s guest experts interpret events and forecast what’s ahead for Congress, the economy, and American society.

Transcript

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

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[Jared Bernstein]

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[Lawrence O'Donnell]

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[Jared Bernstein]

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[Lawrence O'Donnell]

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[Jared Bernstein]

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[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Hey, Judd. That the Pelosi standing up to Trump photo might be my, my favorite. It is so good of that entire period.

[DSW Advertiser]

Me too. It was my Twitter background when it was called Twitter for a long while.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Yeah. And it was one of those images that really told the story. It really told America. This is what it has come down to. This is where we are. And such strong imagery and exactly what the Democrats needed at that moment, no question.

[DSW Advertiser]

And as you know. Well, because you've known her a long time and covered the Senate, you know, the Senate, you know, Congress. A lot of what she did was behind the scenes. I mean, she was so tough, so smart. She still is behind the scenes. She wouldn't, she got the AC pass. She's just been a powerhouse in this town for so many years. You know, she deserves to be honored today and for many days to come.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

95% of that job is off stage, off camera. You never see it being done.

[DSW Advertiser]

Yeah, exactly.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

It's a hard one. Thanks, Jen.

[DSW Advertiser]

Thanks, Lawrence.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Thank you. With Donald Trump's government shutdown now threatening the reliability of air travel in the United States, giving Americans new worries today about every airline reservation anyone currently holds for air travel in America, including Thanksgiving travel, Donald Trump gathered in the Oval Office with pharmaceutical company executives to discuss possible future price reductions for what Donald Trump inelegantly calls the fat drug. So today I'm thrilled to announce that two world's largest pharmaceutical manufacturers, Eli Lilly and Novo Nordisk, have agreed to offer their most popular GLP1 weight loss drug. I call it the Fat drug at drastic discount. As Donald Trump, along with some of his administration officials and pharmaceutical executives, droned on, someone standing with the group collapsed, which immediately sent the physician in the room, Dr. Mehmet Oz, into action, along with other normal human beings who reached down to help the man, who was revived and then helped from the room by White House medical staff. At the first sign of the commotion, Donald Trump turned around, as you see there. But then, not understanding what was happening, he turned away when he saw that man on the ground. He looked and then turned away, as you see here. And then Donald Trump, a person without a single sympathetic instinct, stood staring straight ahead as if pretending that whatever suffering the man behind him was experiencing wasn't happening. And yes, that's the man's foot in the air that you see in the corner of that picture, his feet. This image captured Donald Trump's ability to completely ignore a person in need. We know what Joe Biden would have done. We know what Barack Obama would have done. We know what George W. Bush would have done. They would have gotten physically involved in reaching down to help that person. They wouldn't get in the way of Dr. Oz or any other medical professional there, but they wouldn't ignore it. They wouldn't turn away. Donald Trump did that today with a man on the floor in the Oval Office, and he did it today with millions of American air travelers whose plans he is threatening. And he did it today with millions of Americans who are worried about their ability to afford food because Donald Trump is trying to take their Supplemental Nutrition Assistance benefits away while a judge in Rhode island continues to order Donald Trump to fund those benefits fully. It is the same Oval Office where Donald Trump congratulated Elon Musk for taking food out of the mouths of starving children and starving people in famine conditions in Africa. It is the same Oval Office where Donald Trump congratulated Elon Musk for denying life saving medicine that this country has been giving to fight AIDS in Africa for over 20 years, thanks to a very successful program created by President George W. Bush and Dr. Anthony Fauci. Elon Musk killed all of that with Donald Trump's hearty approval, which led Bill Gates to describe Elon Musk as the world's richest man killing the the world's poorest children. The New Yorker is reporting on a new analysis that shows that Donald Trump and Elon Musk's destruction of the United States Agency for International Development has already caused the deaths of 600,000 people, two thirds of them children. Those 600,000 people died while Donald Trump was staring straight ahead in the other direction with those dying children in Africa far behind his back, the way that suffering man was today. That is the picture of the Trump presidency. That should be the Trump second term official portrait. Portrait of Donald Trump standing mindlessly staring straight ahead, wondering when he will next get to play golf. Maybe while a man's feet are in the air behind him being picked up by other people who have the capacity to care about another human being in distress. After the suffering man was removed from the Oval Office and the pharmaceutical executives continued congratulating themselves, Mr. Oblivious opened the floor to questions from the White House press corps. And he finally got a good question from the White House press corps about tariffs. Because yesterday the Supreme Court handed White House reporters questions that even they could understand. And the reporter who asked the question that I'm about to present to you is one of the best SV date who actually understood tariffs before the Supreme Court explained them to the White House press corps yesterday. His question was, Mr. President, yesterday in the Supreme Court, Chief Justice Roberts said the tariffs are taxes and that they're paid by Americans. He said this pretty clearly. And yet you're saying that this money is rolling in from other countries. How do you square those two? Now, before you listen to Donald Trump's words, I want to warn you there is not even a hint of an answer in what he says. It is just Trump gibberish after a reporter's question. A good question. This is the kind of gibberish for which most of the Washington news media thinks Donald Trump deserves great credit for taking so many questions from reporters. Most of the Washington news media does not care at all that what Donald Trump says in response to their questions varies from utterly empty and nonsensical to outright screaming lies. Here's that question, followed by Donald Trump's words.

[Norm Ornstein]

Yesterday in the Supreme Court, Chief Justice Roberts said that tariffs are taxes.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

That they're paid by Americans. He said this pretty clearly.

[Norm Ornstein]

And yet you're saying that this money is rolling in from other countries. How do you square those two?

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

It is. It's coming in because they've charged us. You know, the same countries that you talk about are charging us massive amounts of money. If you look at the tariffs over the years that were put on our, on our heads, we, there's a reason we're $38 trillion out now that money's going to start coming down. But we had presidents that didn't know how to use tariffs. We had presidents who had no understanding of business. In other words, he has no idea how to respond to what the Chief justice said, that the Trump tariffs are taxes and they are taxes on the American people. And this time there was a follow up.

[Norm Ornstein]

So then, do you agree then that.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Americans are paying those tariffs? I think no, I don't agree. I think that they might be paying something. And there it is. Donald Trump finally asked about Americans paying for his tariffs and he says, quote, I think, no, I don't agree. I think that they might be paying something. Something really that's a new one, something. China was paying all of those tariffs until today, when now, apparently we are paying something, as was established in the Supreme Court yesterday, to the agreement of all nine Supreme Court justices. The Trump tariffs are taxes, taxes on the American people. Chief Justice John Roberts said, yes, sure, the tariffs are a tax and that's a core power of Congress. And the chief also said the vehicle is imposition of taxes on Americans. And that has always been the core power of Congress. Justice Amy Coney Barrett raised the issue of the Trump tariffs having to be refunded if the Supreme Court rules against the Trump tariffs, if the Supreme Court agrees with the other federal courts that the Trump tariffs are illegal and unconstitutional. And when asked about that today, Donald Trump told this lie. You know, we have to pay back trillions of dollars. We've taken in trillions. We haven't taken in billions. We've taken in trillions of dollars. That is a lie. That is actually trillions of lies. The total amount of tariff revenue collected by the United States treasury this year is $195 billion. That is roughly the same amount that the Internal Revenue Service refunds to taxpayers in a typical year. The treasury knows how to refund billions of dollars when it takes too much money from people. In fact, Donald Trump's Justice Department lawyers, in appealing the Trump tariff case to the United States Supreme Court, assured the appeals court and the Supreme Court in writing that they could easily pay back the tariffs if they lose the case. The treasury has very precise records of who paid the tariffs at the port of entry for all of the goods that have been illegally tariffed by Donald Trump here in the United States. And the treasury knows exactly how to refund that money. After Donald Trump's terrible day in the Supreme Court yesterday, the conservative Wall Street Journal posted an editorial today saying that the Supreme Court should rule unanimously, nine to nothing against Donald Trump on his illegal and unconstitutional tariffs. And after Donald Trump's apparently bad day at the Supreme Court yesterday, he had a bad day in court again today with one of his Malicious prosecutions, a Trumpian abuse of legal process. A jury in Washington, D.C. found 37 year old Shawn Dunn not guilty of assault on a heavily armed Border Patrol officer who was dressed for combat on the streets of Washington, D.C. the Trump Justice Department first tried to obtain an indictment against Shandon from a grand jury for felony assault. But a Washington D.C. grand jury refused to give Donald Trump's prosecutors that indictment. And today, A Washington, Washington, D.C. trial jury refused to convict Shondun of assault with a sandwich. That sandwich that you just saw him throw. Donald Trump's absurdly incompetent and intemperate U.S. attorney for Washington, D.C. jeanine Pirro, a graduate of the Fox propaganda channel, led the failed prosecution of Shandon. The sandwich that bounced off the body armor of Gregory Lamore, probably without his ability to even feel it, was described in the New York Times as, quote, a wilting Subway sandwich. A photograph of that sandwich on the sidewalk became an exhibit in the case that the jury was able to study. Apparently, it didn't look very threatening to them. Gregory Larmore, who was dressed and armed for war, is a Customs and Border Protection agent who took the stand, the witness stand, in the case where he tried under oath to convince a jury that he was assaulted with a sandwich. And so Gregory Lairmore takes his place in Customs and Border Protection history as the only officer in their history to claim to have been assaulted by a sandwich and to make a federal case out of it. And to lose that federal case because a Washington D.C. jury had no problem at all understanding the truth, despite all the King's prosecutors trying their best. That is how Donald Trump is deploying his forces. Donald Trump is not rushing people to air traffic control towers to improve air travel. In fact, Donald Trump has fired FAA officials this year, fired them for no reason at all. Elon Musk wanted to fire them. That was good enough. Elon Musk thought that was a great idea. Let's do it. And now you have a crisis in air travel in America. Now you have a government shutdown created by Donald Trump that makes that crisis in air travel worse. And Donald Trump is doing absolutely nothing about it. He did nothing about it today. If you're worried about your airline reservations, Donald Trump isn't. He did nothing to help you today. He's trying to put the sandwich guy in jail today because Donald Trump is oblivious to the real world. Donald Trump's teammates all fly private. They own their own jets like Elon Musk, or they've been provided now with government jets like Donald Trump's FBI director who uses the FBI jet for date night in America because his girlfriend lives in Nashville and he lives in Washington, D.C. donald Trump's incompetent Secretary of Homeland Security, the dog killing enthusiast Kristi Noem, has ordered new private jets at a cost of $180 million to taxpayers in a federal budget that Donald Trump thinks cannot afford to fund food stamps. She wants the new planes so that she and her constant companion don't have to check their boarding passers to see which boarding group they're in. No one in Trump world has to worry about a flight being canceled. No one. They have no idea what that feels like. No one working for Donald Trump is worried tonight that they might not get home for Thanksgiving because their flight might be canceled. Donald Trump is the most oblivious human being who has ever lived in the White House, surrounded by the most oblivious cabinet and the most oblivious White House staff in history. Not one of them is worried about the government shutdown disrupting anything about their lives. They leave the worrying to everyone headed to an American airport tomorrow. They leave the worrying to everyone wondering if they will be able to get enough food this month. They leave the worrying to the millions of people whose health care costs are going to skyrocket simply because Donald Trump is president. The man who cannot see the suffering, even when it is right there in the room with him, as it was today with a man on the floor behind Donald Trump in medical distress. A man whose name Donald Trump did not even know and didn't even bother to find out. If this week's massive election victory for Democrats indicates what will happen in the next congressional election, then we have one more year of this version of the Trump presidency before the speaker of the House, Hakeem Jeffries, will be in a position to force Donald Trump to deal with him and the real needs of so many Americans who Donald Trump apparently cannot see and does not know exist. Leading off our discussion tonight is Democratic Senator Amy Klobuchar of Minnesota. She serves on the Senate Judiciary Committee and the Commerce Committee. Senator Klobuchar, I want to, first of all go to what's happening in air travel, because a state like Minnesota is the kind of place you have a major hub there that could be affected. And then there's all the feeder airports, the smaller feeder airport that go out across the Dakotas feeding into Minneapolis, that could also be really backed up. Even though they're not in this top 40 list of airports, they could be shut down because they can't get landing slots in Minneapolis.

[Amy Klobuchar]

Exactly. Lawrence and I just keep thinking while he is so oblivious and showing his marble bathrooms, American people aren't oblivious. And they spoke in a big voice from Mississippi to Georgia, New Jersey, Virginia, and across the country, California. California on Tuesday. And they know exactly what's going on. Donald Trump runs the presidency. He runs the House, he runs the Senate. And right now, what he should be doing is coming to the negotiating table. We should have passed our bill to pay the federal employees, including the air traffic controllers, but he won't allow it to come up for a vote. And you know what I was thinking? I was thinking about the fact that the House of Representatives, the Republicans in the House, are on their seventh week of vacation. So while they're sitting home, Americans are going to be at the airports, getting their trips ruined, trying to catch planes, when all we're asking for is come to the table. You wrote the Art of the deal. Show us your stuff, come to the table like every other president has done when there's a budget impasse or there is any kind of a shutdown or a threat of a shutdown, and he stays in that White House in his marble bathroom instead of just coming down to Capitol Hill.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

So I just want to clarify this point for the audience. It is possible for the Congress to immediately pass funding for air traffic control for everything that we need for air travel in America. That could be done separate from all the other elements of the shutdown.

[Amy Klobuchar]

Exactly. It could be done tomorrow. But guess who's not here to pass that bill? The Republican House. So you have to pass it in both houses, but they're not here because they don't want to vote on that. Epstein files. So what we're asking is, we know that they're not going to be able to come to an agreement while these healthcare premiums are skyrocketing across the country, doubling 75% of the people on those plans, small businesses, farmers, ranchers, are in states that Donald Trump won. We are asking them to come to the table. And by the way, only one year of those tax credits is about the same amount of money as he gave to Argentina. So he's more interested in and given money, given a check to the people of Argentina instead of helping Americans afford their health care. So our point is, come get this negotiation done. We could reopen the government tomorrow.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

You know, you just linked something that I hadn't actually seen until you said it. The House of Representatives has closed down for a bunch of reasons, including the fear of going into session, because that would involve swearing in the newest elected member of the House, which would make which would be the 218th vote on a petition that would then get a vote in the House of Representatives on releasing the Epstein files. So to continue to hide the Epstein files, the Republican House of Representatives is refusing to even entertain an immediate legislative solution to the air traffic crisis, not.

[Amy Klobuchar]

To mention ending the shutdown altogether by coming to the table when we know there's cracks, multiple stories, including one today where a number of Republicans have overtly said publicly and some of them behind closed doors, we want to do something about these escalating premiums. We know what the answer is. Let us continue the help for Americans who are on these plans, but a bunch of them are afraid of him. So tomorrow, this weekend, a big time for them to finally come back and come to the table and negotiate with us.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

So if your flight gets canceled, think about Mike Johnson, Republican speaker of the House, and his protecting of the Epstein files. And that's going to make it just a little bit harder. When your flight gets canceled, it's going.

[Amy Klobuchar]

To really piss people off because they're going to know those representatives are sitting at home. They're sitting at home with their families. When Americans can't get home, sitting at.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Home protecting the Epstein files, your flight gets canceled. Senator Amy Klobuchar, thank you very much for starting.

[Amy Klobuchar]

Thanks, Lord. I hope that they will come to the table and we can work this out for the American people. That was the message Tuesday. And let's bring these costs down on health care.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Thank you, Senator.

[Amy Klobuchar]

Thank you.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Coming up, Donald Trump was hoping the government shutdown would shut down the flow of information about bad economic news. But that didn't work. That's next.

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[Lawrence O'Donnell]

As President Trump continues implementing his ambitious agenda, follow along with MSNBC's newest newsletter, Project 47. You'll get weekly updates sent straight to your inbox with expert analysis on the administration's latest actions and how they're affecting the American people.

[DSW Advertiser]

The American people are basically telling the president that they are not okay with any of this.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Sign up for the Project 47 newsletter at msnbc.com project47. Start your day with the MSNBC Daily Newsletter, sharp insights from voices you trust, standout moments from your favorite shows, and fresh perspectives from experts shaping the news. Sign up [e-mail] One of the things Donald Trump loves about the government shutdown is that the Bureau of Labor Statistics is unable to issue its jobs report, but other data is now available to tell the story. Here are today's big economic headlines. More than 1 million jobs have been cut this year. Layoffs rise to recession like levels through October, new report says. CNBC reports. In total, companies have announced 1.1 million cuts this year, a 65% increase from a year ago and the highest level since the COVID pandemic year of 2020. Layoff announcements soared in October, a sign of potential trouble ahead for the labor market, according to outplacement firm Challenger Gray and Christmas job cuts for the month totaled 153,074, a 183% surge from September and a 175% higher than the same month a year ago when Joe Biden was president. This has been the worst year for announced layoffs since 2009. The report provides a glimpse into the labor market at a time when the government has suspended data gathering and releases during the shutdown in Washington, D.C. one expert was quoted in the report, october's pace of job cutting was much higher than average for the month. Some industries are correcting after the hiring boom of the pandemic, but this comes as AI adoption, softening consumer and corporate spending and rising costs drive belt tightening and higher freezes. Those laid off now are finding it harder to quickly secure new goals, which could further loosen the labor market. The report also details exactly how Donald Trump is personally responsible. Department of Government efficiency impact remains the leading reason for job cut announcements in 2025, cited in 293,753 planned layoffs so far this year. This includes direct reductions to the federal workforce and its contractors. An additional 20,976 cuts have been attributed to the Department of Government Efficiency Downstream impact, which reflects the loss of federal funding to private and nonprofit entities. It has been three months since Donald Trump fired the Bureau of Labor Statistics commissioner after July's bad jobs report. And since the government shutdown, the Bureau of Labor Statistics has not been collecting data or releasing reports and sparing Donald Trump headlines about their job data. Here is the headline about the state of the American job market at exactly this time last year, job growth rebounds with a gain of 227,000 in November. President Biden said at that time, since I took office, the economy has created more than 16 million jobs, with jobs created every single month. Unemployment has been the lowest on average of any administration in 50 years. What a difference a year makes. Joining us now is Jared Bernstein, former chair of the White House Council of Economic Advisers in the Biden administration. Thank you very much for joining us tonight. You know, I was thinking a year ago after election night that with the economy that President Biden was leaving to Donald Trump, all he had to do was nothing and then take credit for it.

[Jared Bernstein]

Precisely right. And there's no question that the Trump administration inherited a very strong economy from us. And by the way, one where inflation was consistently coming down. Instead of sitting on his hands and just taking credit for what he inherited, he did what he's done before, squandered that inheritance. In this case, with tariffs, with chaos, with attacks on the Federal Reserve, with interventions into the economy, depending on who's sitting in the Oval Office and willing to share some grift and graft with the president. The result of this has been, of course, on the tariff side, inflation that's been higher and stickier than what he inherited. Prices, particularly food prices. And we know that consumers are very sensitive to groceries. The price of coffee is up 20% from a year ago. Beef, many other groceries reflecting those tariff pressures. But the job market, what you talked about in the introduction, it was a very strong job market. Now it's quite a weak one. That's really a major issue for most Americans who don't get their income from the stock portfolio, but from the paycheck.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

You know, when I listen to Supreme Court hearings, I often wonder how painful it is for historians because you, you frequently hear justices mangling history and going into an area of scholarship they know nothing about. Yesterday, it was economists. It was what this is. The economists get to listen to the Supreme Court wrestle with their concepts. And I have to say, almost all, just about all of them got the one simple introductory economics course point correct, which is tariffs are taxes.

[Jared Bernstein]

Yeah, they actually got a couple of things right. I did listen to that, and it was actually really interesting. And I don't listen to every one of those, but I thought that one was really worth a listen. Yes, tariffs or taxes. I think the government lawyer, Trump's lawyer, tried to evade that with all kinds of word salad, but even the conservative justices weren't having it. I mean, Gorsuch, I thought asked very piercing questions. I mean, when you lose Justice Alito, when he starts raising his eyebrows, you've got a problem. Now, look, we don't know what the court will do when they decide. They've certainly the SCOTUS conservatives have definitely been forthcoming for the President. But in this case, I think. I think the President is going to lose. And yes, tariff or taxes, they raise revenues just like taxes. In fact, you just cited a number in the 200 billion range for revenues raised this year. The other thing the court got right was in Trump's framing, the trade deficit is a national emergency. Well, we've had a trade deficit about the same magnitude we have right now since the mid-1970s through economic ups and downs. No economist, unless they're paid to think otherwise, no economists would call that an economic emergency.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Yeah, and we have a permanent trade deficit in coffee because we just don't have any here. You have to import all of it. There's a little bit comes from Hawaii, a little bit from Puerto Rico, but most people will never taste that stuff. It's all imported. And the idea that there's something fundamentally wrong with any and all trade deficits misunderstands that very point.

[Jared Bernstein]

Yeah, I think a very good question for if I ever got some of those folks in a room, I mean, a very good question would be, what exactly is the end goal here when it comes to tariffing coffee or bananas? Do you think we're going to have a coffee plantation? You know, it's clearly. It's clearly not thought through on really any coherent level. So what it redounds to is a bunch of consumers facing higher prices. And I think you just heard Senator Klobuchar talk about this. Whether it's health care, whether it's groceries, whether it's childcare, housing, the main thing that's hurting American consumers is affordability. And Trump's agenda, particularly the tariffs, push in exactly the wrong way, and they push that way hard. Now, people know which way is up. You know, Scott Bessen can get out there and say there's no inflation and there's great job growth. We've talked about the hiring, we've talked about the inflation. The electorate showed that they know which way is up, they know what's what.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

You don't need the.

[Jared Bernstein]

You know, they don't need to look at government data to know how the economy's doing. And so what we saw on Tuesday night, that big blue wave, was, I think, very much a repudiation of the false reality within which the Trump administration lives. When it comes to the economy, you're right. In that false reality, government data is kryptonite. But for the rest of us, again, I think we know what's happening out there.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Jared Bernstein, thank you very much for joining us tonight.

[Jared Bernstein]

You're welcome.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

And coming up, what do Republicans do after devastating election losses for the Republican Party coast to coast this week? Well, some of them will have to decide which way do they want to lose next year, running for reelection to the House of Representatives or running for governor? That's next.

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[Lawrence O'Donnell]

MSNBC presents the chart topping original podcast, the Best People with Nicole Waffle. This week, she sits down with Pod Save America hosts Jon Favreau and Tommy Vitor. To get people's attention nationally, you do need charismatic leaders and I worry that we don't quite have that yet, or.

[Jared Bernstein]

At least no one's broken through in a big way.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

The Best People with Nicole Wallace listen now. For early access ad free listening and bonus content, subscribe to MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts. Just days after the Republican White House wipeout in elections from coast to coast, Trump supporting Republican Congresswoman Elise Stefanik is planning to announce her losing campaign for governor of New York. If the results in this week's governor elections in New Jersey and Virginia are any indication of what will happen one year from now in the election of New York's governor. The New York Times is reporting, quote, Representative Elise Stefanik is preparing to announce as early as Friday that she will run for governor next year, according to three people briefed on her plans. New York Governor Kathy Hochul, who is positioned to run a strong reelection campaign, objected today to Donald Trump's using the government shutdown to try to shut down American air travel. The governor pointed out that the smaller airports in the state of New York will suffer along with the major airports in the state of New York. And Elise Stefanik said absolutely nothing about that today. Elise Stefanik said nothing about Donald Trump trying to take food assistance away from people during the government shutdown. Donald Trump is the first president who has tried to do that And Elise Stefanik supports every single thing that Donald Trump has ever said or done. And she thinks she can be the next governor of New York. Donald Trump chose Elise Stefanik to be his ambassador to the United Nations. Elise Stefanik was happily packing her bags to move to New York City when she was told that Donald Trump changed his mind. She was going to have to remain as an upstate New York member of Congress because the Republicans couldn't afford to lose another member of the House of Representatives this year. It may be that the only choice Elise Stefanik had for next year's election is which way does she want to lose? Does she want to lose running for governor or does she want to lose running for reelection to her House seat? That is the message of this week's election, where two women did what Elise Stefanik dreams of doing. They've gone from the House of Representatives to become governors. In New Jersey, Mikey Sherrill beat what political analysts thought was a strong Republican candidate by 13 points. In a state in which the governorship easily swings back and forth from Democrats to Republic to Republicans. But not this year. Winning the governorship in New Jersey is easier for a Republican than winning a governorship in New York. And we saw what happened in New Jersey. Elise Stefanik is one of the many Republicans around the country who will choose to run as a Trump supporter against a Trump opponent. And we saw how that works on Tuesday. And every day that Elise Stefanik is running for governor of New York, she is going to be a Trump supporting Republican member of the House of Representatives casting those votes in support of Donald Trump. She is currently responsible for the Trump Republican government shutdown and she will be responsible for and supportive of every Trump madness visited upon the state of New York and the country next year.

[Jared Bernstein]

This is day 37 of the Trump Republican shutdown, and the position of House Democrats remains the same. We will not support a partisan Republican spending bill that continues to gut the health care of the American people. We're ready, we're willing, we're able to sit down with our Republican colleagues anytime, any place in order to reopen the government, to find a bipartisan path forward and to decisively address the Republican health care crisis that continues to crush people all across the country.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Congressional expert Noel Mornstein, who has seen every government shutdown, will join us with consideration of what this week's election means for next week's government shutdown. That's next. This week is the lowest point of Donald Trump's presidency, with devastating Republican losses in elections from coast to coast and a Unanimous Supreme Court agreeing during argument that Donald Trump's tariffs are taxes on the American people. And with a new poll finding the highest disapproval number Donald Trump has ever had at 63%. 61% disapprove of Donald Trump's handling of the government shutdown, while an ABC News poll shows that Donald Trump has his worst polling number ever on handling the economy, with 62% of Americans disapproving of how Donald Trump is handling the economy. Joining us now is congressional historian Norm Ornstein. He is an emeritus scholar at the American Enterprise Institute. And Norm, tonight I am hoping that you can reassure America that, that their airline reservations are going to be okay, because the Democrats big win this week has created a new dynamic that with all your experience watching every one of these government shutdowns, you can see will lead to a solution. That means our airline reservations are going to work and they're going to be good. Norm, please show us the light at the end of the tunnel here.

[Norm Ornstein]

Lawrence, one thing we have to say is that these elections were dramatic, not just in Virginia and New Jersey and Pennsylvania. In Mississippi, Democrats broke the super majority of the legislature. In Georgia, we saw dramatic results for the Public Service Commission. This has put Republicans back on their heels. And as your poll showed, Americans blame Trump and Republicans for the shutdown. They know this now. And I believe we're going to see a fairly prompt resolution of this. And it could take any number of forms. One of the things that could happen is that John Thune and the Senate Democrats will reach an agreement and then Mike Johnson and the House Republicans who've been AWOL for six or seven weeks will say no, and then the blame is clearly on them. We could get a resolution for a year, which I think would be great because then we're back to the same place right before the midterm elections or for three years and Democrats can do a victory dance or in the worst case scenario, which actually has an upside, Republicans do what Trump eliminate the filibuster. And making it clear that they're doing this to take away health insurance from 30 million Americans and leaving it open for Democrats to enact a sweeping agenda if and when they regain power. They know this. So I expect we're going to see a resolution of this and the elections help. But it also, Lawrence vindicates, I believe, Democrats who stood firm, who didn't capitulate and insisted on making this a referendum on how we handle health insurance and safety for Americans. And I think we're going to see a real vindication of this despite the pain, which of course is because Republicans refuse to agree to anything.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Nor I think it's no surprise that the longest government shutdowns are Donald Trump government shutdowns. He has the number one and the number two. The first one in my homework today indicated there was one in 1980 that lasted a day. And they I can remember there'd be these shutdowns starting in the 80s, going into the 90s that would last a day or two days, and everyone would get, you know, everyone in government on both sides would get really scared about letting it go another day and figure out as fast that they could affix. Donald Trump is the person who didn't understand why everybody else feared long shutdowns.

[Norm Ornstein]

You know, Newt Gingrich weaponized shutdowns, which never before had this kind of partisan drama. And that was when Bill Clinton was president and eventually he had to capitulate. And we've seen this a few times, but not as much as we have under Trump. And it's partly, let's face it, because we know that this nihilistic group of Republicans think, hey, we'll do away with government and people won't bother with it at all. And that's proven to be false. And now, of course, as they've tried to crack down and make the pain even more difficult for Americans with the SNAP program and food insecurity, with these airline games that they're playing, it's going to backfire on them. And maybe the good news out of this as we go through this pain, but when we get out of it, is more Americans will realize both the contrast between the parties, one that wants to make government work for people, the other that wants to blow the whole thing up. And they'll realize as well that we need government to do certain things that provide a safety net, public safety and security. And maybe that itself, beyond where we get out of this in the short term with the shutdown, is going to lead to a different dialogue, which we need at this point as we slide further towards authoritarianism and this nihilistic approach to blowing up government.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Norm Orenstein, thank you very much for joining us tonight.

[Norm Ornstein]

Anytime, Lawrence. Thank you.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

We'll be right back. Norm Ornstein gets tonight's last word. Hey, everyone, it's Chris Hayes. This week on my podcast, why Is this Happening? Journalist Jasper Nathaniel on his experience in the West Bank. It's not just a story of occupation violence and settler violence, but it's about these Americans who are not used to this. They have much more in common with you or me than they do with probably a lot of people that we see in Gaza. And they are now facing this kind of terror that they've never seen before. And they're trying to figure out what to do about it. And they've turned to the US Government and they've been basically had the door slammed on, though that's this week on why is this happening? Search for why is this happening? Wherever you're listening right now, and follow.