Podcast Summary: The Last Word with Lawrence O’Donnell

Episode: "Trump says 65% of Americans are ‘FOOLS!’"
Date: November 12, 2025
Host: Lawrence O'Donnell
Notable Guests: Senator Sheldon Whitehouse, Jason Furman (Former Obama CEA Chair), Laurie Mullins (Customs Expert)

Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into Donald Trump’s controversial claim that 65% of Americans are "fools" for opposing his tariff policy—a statement unprecedented for any U.S. president and largely ignored by mainstream media. The episode analyzes the political and economic fallout from Trump’s remark and his proposal to send $2,000 checks to compensate for tariff-driven inflation. Lawrence O’Donnell is joined by Senator Sheldon Whitehouse, economics expert Jason Furman, and customs professional Laurie Mullins to discuss the political dynamics in Congress, the real-world impact of tariffs and potential rebates, and the function of leadership in high-stakes situations.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Trump’s ‘FOOLS’ Statement & Tariff Policy ([02:17]–[07:00])

• Main Issue: Trump called 65% of Americans "fools" in writing, after a poll showed that’s the share opposing his tariffs.
  • Quote: “Donald Trump said in writing, people that are against tariffs are fools. 65% of Americans are fools. According to Donald Trump…” – Lawrence O’Donnell [02:17]
• Economic Impact: 65% of Americans recognize Trump’s tariffs are causing inflation and higher costs.
• Trump’s Contradiction: He now proposes sending checks of $2,000 to everyone harmed by his own tariff policy to "compensate" for the damage.
• Media Response: O’Donnell points out the lack of media outrage, suggesting the press has been worn down by the chaos of the Trump years:
  • Quote: “Donald Trump can say it, and the Washington news media doesn’t even notice it because his madness has understandably worn them down.” – Lawrence O’Donnell [04:09]
• Upcoming Guests: Announcement that economist Jason Furman and customs expert Laurie Mullins will explain the refund mechanics and legalities surrounding tariffs.

2. Redistricting and Democrat Strategy ([00:52]–[02:15])

• Context: Discussion with Laurie Mullins about redistricting plans across the country, originally initiated by Republicans, potentially backfiring and benefitting Democrats.
• State-Level Action: Grassroots movements in Missouri, Virginia, and even Utah (“big red Utah”) are pushing back against aggressive redistricting.
  • Quote: “It's really unbelievable. They may live to regret it. We'll see.” – Laurie Mullins [01:46]
• Gavin Newsom’s Role: California’s governor emerges as a leader influencing redistricting strategy.

3. Senate Shutdown Deal – Feelings vs. Reality ([07:00]–[23:30])

• Background: Lawrence unpacks Democratic discontent after five Democratic senators helped broker an end to a government shutdown, apparently conceding to Republicans.
• Senator Whitehouse’s Empathy: Video message validating Democratic frustration, urging unity instead of infighting:
  • Quote: “Whatever your feelings are, I validate them... But we've got a battle on our hands... to defend our country from Trump and maga.” – Sen. Sheldon Whitehouse [07:33]
• Senate Dynamics:
  • Schumer’s leadership compared to Pelosi’s — Senate allows more individual action, less party discipline than the House.
    • Quote: “You can't measure Chuck Schumer against Nancy Pelosi because he's in a different job... The Senate has never been that way.” – Sen. Sheldon Whitehouse [20:51]
  • Extensive behind-the-scenes negotiation with Republicans, led by Tim Kaine and others, was ongoing from day one of the shutdown.
• Perspective on Loss: O’Donnell argues that what seems a "Democratic loss" is actually a compromise in an "unprecedented situation"—highlighting how legislative outcomes are uncertain, with many actors genuinely trying to do the right thing under difficult circumstances.
  • Quote: “The future is not a fact. The future is a guess. Especially in politics...” – Lawrence O’Donnell [19:50]
• Looking Ahead: Whitehouse stresses focusing energy on the upcoming Affordable Care Credit vote rather than internal finger-pointing:
  • Quote: “Win that, not fight with each other.” – Sen. Sheldon Whitehouse [22:52]

4. Insider Senate Perspective ([25:43]–[27:53])

• Inside the LBJ Room: O’Donnell and Whitehouse describe the complex interpersonal dynamics of persuading a senator—highlighting both the independence of senators and the difficulty of shifting votes, especially on major issues.
  • “On a big issue, on a national issue... our states kind of demand [independent thinking] of us.” – Sen. Whitehouse [27:24]

5. Trump, Pardons & Ghislaine Maxwell ([27:53]–[32:40])

• Ghislaine Maxwell Case: O’Donnell and Whitehouse discuss new revelations about the favorable treatment of Maxwell in prison, with implications of a potential Trump pardon.
  • Quote: “This is the most obvious quid pro quo. It's being done in plain view.” – Sen. Whitehouse [29:28]
• Trump’s Pardon Strategy: Whitehouse describes a “pardon fog” of indiscriminately issuing pardons to both participants and organizers of the January 6th insurrection, questioning Trump’s understanding of the distinctions between state and federal charges.
  • “If you're loyal to me, I'll do anything for you, even if it's just signaling.” – Sen. Whitehouse [31:45]

6. Trump’s Tariffs: The Numbers Don’t Add Up ([34:30]–[39:47])

Expert Reaction – Jason Furman ([36:35]–[39:47])

• Key Correction: Furman calls Trump’s $2,000 rebate plan "middle school math," highlighting the arithmetic and economic incoherence:
  • Quote: “Every part of this doesn’t make any sense. We have a large deficit. We can’t afford this. It’s way higher than the tariff revenue.” – Jason Furman [36:49]
• Political Response: Trump’s administration has largely ignored affordability concerns except for token gestures like the $2,000 check or 50-year mortgage proposals, both of which would worsen inflation or are impractical.
  • “It was the issue he was elected on, but seemed entirely indifferent to it.” – Jason Furman [37:53]
• Misallocation: Blanket checks are not a real solution, especially when targeted assistance for ACA premium payers is being neglected.

7. Tariff Refunds: Process Explained ([41:48]–[45:11])

Customs Expert – Laurie Mullins

• Tracking Refunds: U.S. Customs can precisely track tariff payments via itemized entries; refunding is administratively feasible.
  • Quote: “Every entry that's filed is very clearly itemized by line item, the types of tariffs that are being paid...” – Laurie Mullins [42:14]
• Potential Complexity: If court-mandated, importers or their brokers may need to file claims, which could stress already-overloaded personnel due to the frequent changing of tariffs.
  • “Brokers are having to navigate all of that on behalf of importers... the complexities continue.” – Laurie Mullins [44:14]
• Precedent: She compares it to past GSP refunds, noting the process could be similarly straightforward if well-managed.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Lawrence O’Donnell on Trump’s Norm-Breaking:
  “Imagine once again if Joe Biden or Kamala Harris or Barack Obama or Hillary Clinton had ever said 65% of Americans are fools.” [03:50]

• Senator Whitehouse’s Validation:
  “Whatever your feelings are, I validate them. Great. Feel that way. But we've got a battle on our hands...” [07:53]

• Jason Furman on Trump’s $2,000 Plan:
  “He claimed the tariffs were being paid by other countries. Of course they're not being paid by other countries. It's just nuts.” [36:57]

• Laurie Mullins on Administrative Feasibility:
  “...because International Emergency Economic Powers act tariffs are filed with itemization, the refund process would be similar and in theory, faster.” [41:52]

Important Segment Timestamps

• Redistricting & Democrat Strategy: [00:52]–[02:15]
• Trump’s ‘FOOLS’ Statement and Tariffs: [02:17]–[07:00]
• Senator Whitehouse on Feelings & Democratic Battle: [07:33]–[08:57]
• Senate Insiders & Leadership Dynamics: [20:35]–[23:30]
• Inside the Senate’s LBJ Room: [25:43]–[27:53]
• Ghislaine Maxwell & Trump’s Pardons: [27:53]–[32:40]
• Jason Furman on Trump’s Tariff Economics: [36:35]–[39:47]
• Tariff Refund Process—Laurie Mullins: [41:48]–[45:11]

Tone & Style

Host Lawrence O’Donnell employs his typical mix of sharp analysis, political skepticism, and clear explanations, supplemented by candid, empathetic contributions from Senator Whitehouse and direct, jargon-free expertise from his specialist guests.

Takeaway

This episode starkly exposes the inconsistencies in Trump’s tariff rhetoric and actions, the challenges of modern Senate leadership, and the root causes of Democratic infighting. Experts clarify the economic and logistical realities behind the headline-grabbing political theater, while the show highlights the critical difference between political guesses and facts—a timely reminder for both policymakers and the public.