← The Last Word with Lawrence O’Donnell
The Last Word with Lawrence O’Donnell
Lawrence: Trump says Trump’s impossible third term is a desperate diversion from his cruelties
00:41:47
Tonight on The Last Word: MSNBC reports two federal prosecutors were placed on administrative leave at the direction of the Trump White House. Also, polls show a tightening race for New Jersey governor. Plus, the government shutdown threatens food assistance for 42 million Americans. And four Senate Republicans join Democrats to block Donald Trump’s tariffs on Canada. Ken Dilanian, Rep. Mikie Sherrill, Rep. Jim McGovern, and Rep. Brendan Boyle join Lawrence O’Donnell.
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To win, to fight for what better.
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Could be, to secure our future together.
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The Last Word with Lawrence O' Donnell starts right now. Hey, Lawrence.
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B
Hey, Jen. I heard your discussion earlier tonight about the difference between you approaching confirmation hearings during your experience in the White House and the Trump world approaching confirmation hearings, which is the most absurd version of it you could imagine.
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E
I mean, Lawrence, I had hundreds of pages of vetting documents. We had meetings until 1 and 2 in the morning. These nominees, before they even became the nominees, went through hours of meetings.
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Right.
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They went through hours of meetings with legal experts, with Jeff Zients, with Joe Biden. And this is how Jonathan Karl describes it in his book, was a set of bullet points and photos to see if they sort of met. The visual description he was looking for would have been much easier, but different kind of cabinet.
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B
And that's because Democrats in the Senate did not automatically vote for someone just because the person was nominated by a Democrat.
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E
True. Yeah, that's true. And they're gonna comb through their backgrounds, their qualifications, whether they were right for the job as they. That's the role of the Senate. That's how our government is set up. They should continue to have that role even though they are giving it over in our current circumstance.
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Yeah, I mean, the Senate is something else indescribable these days. Thanks, Jen.
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Thanks, Lawrence.
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Have a good show.
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Well, as we reported here last night, Donald Trump will not have a third term in the presidency. We're beginning once again tonight with something that is not actually news shouldn't be treated as news today. Even Donald Trump himself gave up the game of using talk of a Trump third term as a way of diverting news attention away from the Trump cruelties, especially the denial of food to hungry people around the world and soon here in the United States. That is what the third term talk was supposed to do and largely succeeded in doing. Get the TV pundits to talk about the third term instead of talking about taking food and Medicine, away from the poorest people in the world. When Donald Trump closed down, the United States Agency for International Development have pundits talk about the third term in welcoming tones in right wing media and terrified tones in the rest of the media, so that they are not talking about the Epstein files, so that they're not talking about Donald Trump becoming the first president in history to suspend the food stamp program, the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program. This program always recognized the Trump third term talk as a diversionary tactic, not to be indulged, but only to be identified as the diversionary tactic that it is today. Donald Trump himself finally was forced to admit, and forced to admit today, no doubt at the urging of Republicans in Congress who would find it unbearable to go into next year's congressional elections with Donald Trump threatening, no matter how empty the threat, a third Trump term. And so we reported here last night on how the Republican speaker of the House went out of his way yesterday to make it very clear that it is absolutely constitutionally impossible for Donald Trump to run for a third term. The speaker was forced to publicly explain what every American high school student is supposed to already know, that it would take an amendment to the Constitution to allow for a third term. And an amendment to the Constitution requires a 2/3 motion vote of the United States Senate, which is currently politically impossible, and a 2/3 vote of the House of Representatives, which is currently politically impossible. The amendment would then have to be approved by three fourths of the states, another political impossibility in today's politics. In fact, a new bestselling book by Harvard history professor Jill Lepore makes the convincing case that amending the Constitution has become politically impossible in this country. And so impossibility is written all over the notion of a third presidential term. And Republicans are supposed to know that because it was the Republican Party that created term limits for the presidency through a constitutional amendment. After the most popular president in history, Franklin Delano Roosevelt, was elected president four consecutive times, beginning in 1932, Republicans went to work to prevent that from ever happening again. After his final reelection campaign in 1944, President Roosevelt died in office the next year, in April of 1945, with the end of World War II in sight. Before the next presidential election, Republicans in Congress introduced an amendment creating the term limit in the presidency of two terms. It was passed in the House of Representatives and the Senate, with every Republican voting for it, while most Democrats voted against it. The amendment was finally ratified in 1951, which meant that every president after Franklin Roosevelt was subject to a two term limit. Thanks entirely to Republican Party bitterness about Democrat Franklin Delano Roosevelt winning the presidency four elections in a row. Donald Trump knows none of that because it lives in a space called history, about which Donald Trump is functionally illiterate. Today on Air Force One, while speaking to reporters lobbing the softest of softball questions, as usual, Donald Trump was asked, sir, Speaker Johnson says that he told you that there's no time to amend the Constitution to allow you to serve a third term. Is that an accurate representation of the conversation you have? Donald Trump? I don't. I don't want to even talk about that because, you know, the sad thing is I have my highest numbers that I've ever had. Okay, let's pause for a parenthetical on those highest numbers he's ever had. The highest approval rating Donald Trump has ever had was 49% during his first term as president. According to Gallup, his approval rating is currently 41%. In other words, like his first term, Donald Trump is carrying an approval rating that would make it impossible for him to win reelection to the presidency. Every Republican president in the history of polling has had higher poll numbers than Donald Trump has ever had. George W. Bush's top approval polling was 90%. His father before him, George H.W. bush, reached an 89% job approval. Ronald Reagan won 49 states in his reelection campaign campaign as a Republican president. And the Republican president who was never elected president, Jerry Ford, hit a high of 71% for his job approval rating. Richard Nixon, who left office in Disgrace, won his second term by winning 49 states. General Dwight Eisenhower, who won World War II in Europe, became President Eisenhower in 1953 and had approval ratings far above Donald Trump's best day. There has never been a Republican president in the history of polling, which began in the 1930s, who did not hit much higher approval ratings than Donald Trump has ever had. Donald Trump finished his rambling response to that reporter by saying, quote, you know, based on what I read, I guess I'm not allowed to run. So we'll see what happens. He doesn't read anything, so he doesn't mean the Constitution. The next question to Donald Trump was, Speaker Johnson says, you're trolling. When you talk about a third term, are you trolling or are you serious? To which Donald Trump said, I don't think he said that. I don't think he used that term. Oh, really? The Trump 2028 cap is one of the most popular that's ever been produced, and he has a good time with that trolling the Democrats. Yeah, Donald, he said trolling Donald Trump's next line was also a lie. Quote, it's a very interesting thing. I have the best numbers for any president in many years. Any president lie, of course. And then he closed this chapter of Trump constitutional lunacy with this line. And I would say that if you read it, it's pretty clear I'm not allowed to run. It's too bad. I mean, stupid. None of this means that Donald Trump, in his laziness and desperation for diversion, won't bring up the third term again at some point. But what it means is Republican Speaker Mike Johnson has managed to get the message through to Donald Trump that his talk about a third term could help wipe out the Republicans in next year's congressional campaigns. While Donald Trump was lying as usual to a White House press corps that didn't challenge him on any one of his lies on polling numbers or tariffs, another storm was brewing in the Trump Justice Department, where justice proved once again not to be the most important priority in a department that Donald Trump is running as an arm of his propaganda machine. Today, the Trump Justice Department placed two federal prosecutors on leave for telling the truth about the January 6th Capitol insurrection. Yesterday, US Attorneys Carlos Valdivia and Samuel White filed a sentencing memo advocating a 27 month prison sentence for a January 6 rioter, Taylor Toronto, who was pardoned by Donald Trump for his involvement in January 6, even though he was also facing other criminal charges after being arrested in 2023 for the possession of a gun and hundreds of rounds of ammunition while parked near President Obama's private home in Washington, D.C. on the same day that Donald Trump himself published the Obama home address on social media. In their sentencing memo, the federal prosecutors wrote, thousands of people comprising a mob of rioters attacked the US Capitol while a joint session of Congress met to certify the results of the 2020 presidential election. Toronto was accused of participating in the the riot in Washington, D.C. by entering the U.S. capitol building. After the riot, Toronto returned to his home in the state of Washington, where he promoted conspiracy theories about the events of January 6, 2021. And the Justice Department has removed the sentencing memo from the docket, claiming that it was filed in error. They then refiled the memo with the offending passages removed. Two new prosecutors have entered their appearance notice in the case. The sentencing is scheduled for tomorrow. And then there is the joyride that the most incompetent FBI director in history is having for himself on government jets, thanks to the $60 million jet that Kashyap Patel gets to use for dates with his girlfriend, who lives in Nashville. According to a former FBI agent who posted the flight logs, he is the first FBI director in history to fly on the FBI director's plane with a girlfriend. He's the first one since J. Edgar Hoover not to have a wife or children. He is what Kashyap Patel, private citizen and Internet ignoramus, said about his predecessor. He's doing much worse than his predecessor, FBI Director Christopher Wray. This is what he said about Christopher Wray. You ground Chris Wray's private jet that he pays for with taxpayer dollars to hop around the country. The FBI director, on the presumption that the FBI director is a competent law enforcement professional who could be called on to manage a crisis at any moment, is actually required to travel only on the jet provided for the FBI director. That is why Christopher Wray flew on that jet. That is why other FBI directors flew on that jet. But not all of them used that jet for private purposes and for private travel. And since none of them had a girlfriend to fly to on the weekends when she is singing at a wrestling match in Pennsylvania and then needs a ride home to Nashville, we can be sure that Kashyap Patel is on his way to setting a record for personal abuse of the FBI director's government plane. Kashyap Patel has picked up the nickname Keystone Cash in an homage to the Keystone Cops. The Keystone Camera Company made cameras and film and movies back in the silent movie era. And the Keystone Cops were a comically inept group of police officers who kept audiences laughing. And our movie theaters back in the black and white silent movie days. But with Keystone Cash, there is never anything to laugh about. Leading off our coverage tonight is MSNBC justice and intelligence correspondent Ken Delaney. And Ken, I want to begin with the FBI jet. And just to stress that it is a requirement, a job requirement that you use that jet so that the President could always be in touch with you and other things. But you supplied me with some information today that I never knew before, that not every FBI director necessarily used it for private travel.
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Yeah, that's right, Lawrence. It's a requirement. But that's a rather new development. I'm not sure exactly when. And that is an executive order that could be repealed at any moment. It's a policy decision, essentially, and it wasn't always the case, even after 9 11. And the reason I know that is because I was on a plane flying coach to Boston with my family at the time. One of my sons was a baby and was kicking the seat in front of him. And I leaned over to apologize to the older couple that was in the seat in front of us in coach. And it was Bob Mueller and his wife, who then the FBI director and I looked around the coach cabin and realized that members of Bob Mueller's security detail were seated in coach. So clearly. And this was post 9 11. So, you know, clearly, Bob Mueller did not always fly on the FBI jet, but subsequently they've. They've made this a rule. And Chris Wray did. He was criticized for taking the jet with his family on vacation because he was required to do that, could not fly commercial. So the issue here really is a matter of judgment. If, you know, you're the FBI director and you can't fly commercial, to what extent do you allow yourself to be jetted around on the taxpayer's dime for purely personal trips? And in this case, it's so egregious. And, you know, we see the flight records. We don't. The FBI is not commenting, so we can't say for certain that Cash Patel was on that plane. But we could just infer because we're seeing that the plane went to State College, Pennsylvania, where his country singer girlfriend happened to be appearing at a wrestling event. And then it went to Nashville, where she lives. And we've reported in the past there have been several trips by that jet and another FBI jet to Nashville, also trips to Las Vegas, where Cash Patel has turned up at ultimate fighting events and other professional sports events. So the issue with him is he doesn't seem to have a regulator. He, wherever he decides to go, he's happy to take the jet, whether it's a sporting event or an event with his girlfriend. And people are noticing that, and particularly at a time when there's a government shutdown. This is a Gulfstream 550. It's a $60 million jet. It's a beautiful, plush executive jet. And he's flying around the country, and we are all paying for that.
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B
And he managed to get photographed with the girlfriend proving that he was at that event in Pennsylvania. Ken, there's so many strange elements of this pushing aside these federal prosecutors, probably on the way to trying to fire them for simply describing January 6th in their sentencing memo, something that the judge already knows about, the judge in this case. And so tomorrow is a sentencing hearing where the judge will have this sentencing memo where he knows, following the news of this, what they've done. He knows that they pulled out the paragraph about January 6th. There won't be any mystery about that in court.
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A
No, we've all seen it. That's what's so remarkable about this, Lawrence, is this attempt to rewrite history in plain sight as we all see what they've done. Not only did they remove the passages about a mob of rioters attacking the Capitol on January 6, they also removed the passage about Donald Trump, essentially tweeting, revealing on social media Barack Obama's address in Washington, which then allowed this defendant to go there with illegal weapons, which is the subject of this case. That passage was also removed. Interestingly, the sentencing memo otherwise is very similar to the, to the previous one, and it calls for 27 months confinement for this defendant, just as the previous one did. So the issue was not had nothing to do with this defendant and what in the sentence the prosecutors call for, it was only how they characterized January 6th and Donald Trump's conduct. And you know what's another remarkable thing to me is they didn't just admonish these prosecutors, order them to file a new sentencing memo. They locked them out of their devices, locked them out of their offices, and escorted them out of the U.S. attorney's office in Washington, D.C. and they knew that everyone in the Justice Department would hear about that and would be talking about it because in my view, it's the message they wanted to send. You run afoul of the received truth at your peril. Whether you're a career low level prosecutor or senior official, you have to do what Donald Trump wants done. And what he wants done is no mention of January 6th as a riot where a mob of rioters attacked the Capitol. So that's what happened. And that message was sent.
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Ken Delaney, and thank you very much for starting off our coverage tonight. You bet. Thank you. And coming up, our next guest is a former federal prosecutor who worked there before Donald Trump corrupted the Justice Department. Mikey Sherrill is now a Democratic candidate for governor in New Jersey, where she holds a small lead. With early voting already underway before Tuesday's election, Mikey Sherrill joins us next.
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At Maurices. We're all about great jeans. You know, the ones that fit you just right, the ones that simply make you feel good because you don't just wear jeans, you live in them. Find great jeans starting at $29.90 in stores and at Marisa's.com MSNBC presents the.
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Our next guest is a former federal prosecutor who was an assistant United States attorney before Donald Trump corrupted the Justice Department. She is now a Democratic member of Congress and candidate for governor of New Jersey, where early voting is already underway. Democratic candidate Mikey Sherrill has maintained a lead over her Republican challenger throughout the campaign, but in the latest polling, that lead is now within the margin of error of that poll showing Congresswoman Sheryl five points ahead. Donald Trump created a new burden for Republican candidate Jack Giadarelli by announcing that he Donald Trump wants to eliminate federal funding for a new tunnel connecting New Jersey and New York City, thereby killing the project, called the Gateway Tunnel, that would ease commuting for people living in New Jersey, the New York Times reports. Representative Mikey Sherrill, the Democratic candidate for governor of New Jersey, seized on the decision. She promised to fight this tooth and nail and sue the Trump administration and contrasted herself with her Republican opponent, Jack Cittarelli, who she said had pledged to never take the Trump administration to court. Two weeks later, Mr. Trump announced that the rail project had been terminated. Both candidates pounced. Ms. Sherrill again tied her opponent to the decision, while Mr. Cittarelli said he would have a better chance of working with Trump administration officials to change their minds. President Obama is scheduled to campaign with Mikey Sherrill in Newark, New Jersey, on Saturday. The Sherrill campaign released the candidate's closing message to New Jersey voters. In this ad.
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D
We know what we need to get done here in New Jersey. As I talk to thousands of new Jerseys, as I talk to people up and down the state from every different background, every single person has a story, a story about how in this country, their family was provided opportunity that they wouldn't have been provided anywhere else in the world. How in this country opportunity opened up to them so they were able to have access to things that their mom and their grandma never would have thought possible. That is what has been so iconic the world over. It is known as the American dream, the idea that you want to succeed, you want to build something for your families, you want your kids to do just a little bit better. And so many of us have experienced that. That's what we're fighting for.
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B
Joining us now is former Navy helicopter pilot, now Congresswoman Mikey Sherrill, she's the Democratic candidate for governor of New Jersey. Thank you very much for joining us tonight. I know how busy you are in these closing hours of this campaign. That that closing message is a general statement about an American dream. What is the, the single most important policy element of your campaign that delivers on that American dream or would deliver on that American dream message?
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D
Well, it's affordability, Lawrence. As we've talked about before, costs are skyrocketing here and the President's making everything worse. So that's why on day one, I'm declaring a state of emergency on utility costs using gubernatorial powers like no one else has done to freeze rate hikes and immediately start to drive down costs. Because I want people here in New Jersey to know this is not a 10 year program. This isn't a strongly worded letter. This isn't a study group or working group. On day one, I am getting to work and driving costs down here in New Jersey.
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B
When I saw the news about the Gateway Tunnel project, which is so crucial to life in New Jersey, more important to life in New Jersey than life in New York, there's more pressure in New Jersey to get to New York City than the other way around for work and other reasons. It just seemed to me that this wouldthis was one of those issues where has happens in campaigns where both sides take the same position that we've got to fight for this. Why didn't that happen on the Republican side?
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D
Well, it didn't happen because Jack Cittarelli, my opponent, is Trump's lackey. So instead of leading, he is following Trump in whatever he decides to do. In fact, Trump himself tweeted that Jack's constantly texting him or calling him for assurances. I am committed to leading in New Jersey and that includes really getting the funding for the Gateway Tunnel done and getting that tunnel done. I have been called the tunnel obsessed congresswoman. And the fact that the president has illegally said he's going to terminate this project after Congress appropriated those funds, means I'll be in court. I will fight him every step of the way to deliver those almost 100,000 jobs to new Jersey, many of them good union jobs, to really fight for those 200,000 people that take the rail tunnels every single day. And Jack won't do it. He won't stand up to this president.
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B
Well, I mean, the governor of New York, mayor of New York will also be fighting for the same project. So without the New Jersey side fighting for the project, that of course would make it a harder fight.
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D
Certainly. And we know that when Jack was last in office in the assembly, he did not fight for the Ark Tunnel, a previous incarnation of the Gateway Tunnel. And he has actually said that he would cut some of the transit lines as I have a vision to build out public transit because we know how hard it is to get around New Jersey in too many cases. So again, I'm going to fight for people to get to and from work, to get to and from the shore, to not have to sit in traffic for hours to get home to their families. And Jack's going to do whatever Trump tells him to do. So that's why I'm fighting so hard for opportunity here, to make sure that we can drive down costs, to make sure people have better job opportunities that they can get to and get back and forth and to constantly focus on just what it is that's keeping people up at night. You know, I often tell families, whatever's keeping you up at night as your governor, it's going to keep me up at night.
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B
One of the issues that governors are always under pressure on is education. And it's one of those issues where the voters are not sure exactly where to assign responsibility for what. What would you tell New Jersey voters a governor can do about the education system?
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D
So I'm the mom of four kids. My oldest is 20, my youngest is 13. So as many parents will know, that means my family and I went right through Covid. And we still need to address learning loss, which is why I've constantly been focused on things like high intensity tutoring, evidence based to help kids catch up. I've worked on it at the federal level and worked with some of our senators who are doing it at the state level so we can expand that. I'm also going to continue to fund teacher retraining for phonics based education. Our third grade reading scores are not where they need to be. And as many people in education will tell you, you learn to read until third grade and then you read to learn. So you really need to have those skills if you're going to continue your education. And we have a mental health crisis in our schools. I've seen too many kids really struggling right now and everything online makes it a lot worse. So I'm passing my kids online safety agenda when I get into office, making sure we have age appropriate design code and then pushing more mental health resources into our schools.
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B
We're going to be covering the election here Tuesday night. You want to give us a prediction on when we'll be able to call New Jersey.
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D
Well, I'd love it to be like my primary. We had an incredibly competitive primary and I think it was called within 20 minutes afterwards. So we shall see. We are hoping we've got a lot of early vote in and we're going to continue to get every vote out here in New Jersey. So far the momentum on the ground is great. The early vote numbers look wonderful. We are on a 21 county bus tour, so anyone who wants to get involved, we could still use the help as we race through the tape. Mikeysharrill.com Please go to it. Please volunteer to make phone calls, chip in, text bank, knock on doors. We would love the help.
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Democratic candidate for governor, New Jersey Michael Sherrill. Thank you very much for joining us tonight.
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D
Thanks so much for having me.
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B
And Rachel and I will be here for MSNBC's election night coverage Tuesday starting at 7pm Eastern. And coming up, rarely do I find myself underestimating how bad things are in Washington. But our next guest described the situation as far worse than I thought when he said, the speaker of the House, quote, has basically abolished the House of Representatives. That came from the highest procedural authority in the House, the top ranking Democrat on the House Rules committee, Congressman Jim McGovern, who will join us next.
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At Maurices. We're all about great jeans. You know, the ones that fit you just right, the ones that simply make you feel good because you don't just wear jeans, you live in them. Find great jeans starting at $29.90 in stores and at Marisa's.com MSNBC presents the.
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Chart topping original podcast, the Best People with Nicole Wallace. Each week Nicole speaks with some of the people who inspire her the most. This week, she sits down with Illinois Governor J.B. pritzker.
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People need to step up, speak up, speak out, grab a megaphone, a microphone, you know, soapbox and get to the ballot box.
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The Best People with Nicole Wallace Listen now, wherever you get your podcasts.
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In this era of darkness, I try to see clearly how bad things are, including the possibility that they might not be as bad as they first appear. Rarely do I find myself underestimating how bad it is, but it appears I did exactly that last night when I talked about Mike Johnson giving the Republicans in the House of Representatives a six week vacation for the last six weeks. Not one workday in Washington for a single Republican member of the House of Representatives in six weeks. But turns out it's worse than that because someone who understands the House of Representatives far better than I ever will and better than Most people who have ever studied it has a different view. Congressman Jim McGovern, the top Democrat on the House Rules Committee, said, we need to start talking about the fact that Mike Johnson has basically abolished the House of Representatives. He has made himself irrelevant and pointless, shrinking the speakership so much that his role has become a pathetic echo of what it used to be. I knew Mike Johnson was a pathetic echo of what speakers used to be, but I had not seen the full institutional destructiveness of what he has done. What Mike Johnson has done to the House is the procedural equivalent of what Donald Trump has done to the east wing of the White House. And while the Senate has technically stayed in business, while the House has been shut down, the Republican leader of the Senate disgraced himself today in a way that no Republican leader in the Senate before him ever would have. The Republican Senate Majority Leader John Thune today personally blocked an attempt by Senate Democrats to pass a bill that would specifically fund the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program, a bill that would have passed with possibly dozens of Republican votes if John Thune had just allowed it to come to a vote. And so John Thune personally killed a legislative solution to the hunger crisis that is going to be created by Donald Trump refusing to fund the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program, even though the funding exists in the relevant department and is ready to pay for that food. Bob Dole was by far the most honorable Republican leader of the United States Senate who I have known. And when I was working on the Democratic side of the Senate and Bob Dole was the leader of the Republican side of the Senate, there wasn't a day that I didn't respect his principled opposition to some of the things that we were trying to do. And often enough, the Democratic side of the Senate would welcome Bob Dole's cooperation in what we were trying to do. It was Bob Dole who created the food stamp program in a legislative partnership with the most liberal Democratic member of the United States Senate at the time, George McGovern. There is no more painful measure of how far the Republicans in the Senate have fallen than the difference between Bob Dole creating the food stamp program and making sure it was always funded and the current Republican leader of the Senate trying to kill it. Joining us now is Democratic Congressman Jim McGovern of Massachusetts. He's the ranking member of the House Rules Committee and a member of the House Agriculture Committee. And the House Agriculture Committee is, of course, where the food stamp program is located. It was located by Bob Dole because he thought this is good for his agricultural state. With the Excess food that's produced. This is what we can do with it.
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G
Absolutely. And I miss the days of Bob dole and George McGovern. I mean, where Democrats and Republicans found common ground. You didn't have to agree on everything to agree on something. And Bob Dole and George McGovern came together and said feeding hungry people and helping our farmers is something we can agree on. And that's missing right now. And you know, you mentioned my comments about Mike Johnson. I mean, this is unprecedented. I mean, even if the Senate were to act on a freestanding bill to fund the SNAP program, the House is not meeting. We haven't been, we haven't met in formal session in six weeks. I mean, Republicans are home, like on vacation or laying on the couch. I don't know where the hell they are. But Mike Johnson ought to tell his Republicans to get their ass on a plane and come back to Washington and get to work. Republicans are big on demanding work requirements for people on SNAP and people on Medicaid. There ought to be work requirements for Republicans to actually show up and do their job if they want a paycheck.
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B
The money exists to fund the nutrition program. It doesn't matter that there's a government shutdown. That's why it has always been funded during government shutdowns. So explain exactly where the money is right now, how it is normally used. And this is what the is agreement the states are suing about is use that money that you're supposed to use.
- [35:27]
G
Right. And I'm grateful to the attorney generals for suing. And I think tomorrow in Massachusetts, before federal courts, this topic will be will be heard. And I trust the judge will rule that Donald Trump has a legal obligation to spend that money. There's a contingency fund. There's between five and six billion dollars in that fund. The USDA has the authority to be able to move other monies around if they want to be able to make sure that everybody gets their food assistance. But for the first time ever, this administration is threatening to withhold food assistance. Now, let me just zoom back a little bit here. Donald Trump ran for president saying that he wanted to put America first, that he wanted to be a champion for working class people and regular people. And he lied. And he lied. He has hurt those very people. He's hurt my constituents. He's hurt people all across the country. Healthcare premiums are about to double or triple. He wants to take food away from hungry people. He can find, you know, $40 billion to bail out this right wing cuckoo clock in Argentina. But he can't find it within his heart to help 40 million Americans who desperately need this food assistance, to be able to put food on the table. I mean, what the hell is wrong with him?
- [36:48]
B
What is it like, with your reverence for the institution as it was formerly run, to be watching a speakership like this? You know, I grew up thinking that the speakership was a Massachusetts job. When I was a kid, John McCormick was the speaker of the House. He represented my district, South Boston, and areas of Dorchester. And then followed by Tip o', Neill, who came from my mother's congressional district where she grew up. And you see these giants that. That we grew up with, watching them run the House of Representatives. Now you see this.
- [37:20]
G
Yeah. I mean, I think the difference was that people like Tip O' Neill and John McCormick and my old boss, Joe Moakley, you know, they had convictions. I mean, they ran for office to help people, not to screw them over. And it's really different now. I mean, what's really sad about the current state of affairs is not just Trump. I mean, he's a lousy president and a lousy human being, but Republican colleagues who, over the years, I've worked with, on legislation to help people in this country, whether it's in the area of combating hunger, you know, or helping support medical research. Those Republicans basically, you know, have fallen into line. They're afraid to cross Donald Trump. They're not the same people they used to be. They've just folded. They've caved. And it's really sad to watch, not only for the institution, but for the future of this country. People are being hurt right now under this administration. And even before this crisis, we had a hunger problem in America. 46 million people hungry in the richest country in the history of the world. We should be ashamed. And the reason why is because, quite frankly, SNAP is an inadequate benefit. On average, it's about $2.30 per person per meal. That's ridiculous. And that's the benefit they're going after. This is unconscionable. And, you know, people have had it, and Democrats are fighting back, and we're going to keep on fighting back. And, you know, whether it's in the courts or in the court of public opinion, you know, we're not going to turn our backs on people who need food and people who need health care.
- [38:48]
B
Congressman Jim McGovern. I hear the voice of Joe Moakley and Tip O' Neill and this kind of Massachusetts delegation fight. Thank you very much for joining us.
- [38:58]
G
Thanks for having this conversation.
- [39:00]
B
Thank you. And coming up, Donald Trump told his standard lie about tariffs to the White House press corps again today, proving that most of the White House press corps, just like Donald Trump, have no idea what a tariff action. An expert on tariffs and everything else in the federal budget will join us next when we hear from Pennsylvania Congressman Brendan Boyle. Donald Trump spent the day lying about tariffs as usual and getting defeated in the United States Senate once again on his tariffs. The Senate voted 50 to 46 to block Donald Trump's tariffs imposed on goods imported from Canada. Four Republicans, led by Senator Rand Paul. Paul joined the Democrats in that vote against Donald Trump's tariffs. Speaking to reporters on Air Force One, Donald Trump told this lie. Quote, hundreds of billions of dollars are coming into our country primarily because of the election result. But the real reason is tariffs. The tariffs are coming in. No, they are not. All of the tariff money that is pouring into the United States treasury comes only from American taxpayers in the this country who pay the Trump tariffs in this country when foreign goods arrive in this country. Donald Trump did not face a single White House reporter who appears to know what a tariff is. And every White House reporter, as usual, allowed Donald Trump to get away with his other lies about tariffs, including, quote, we're building up great wealth because of tariffs. No, the United States treasury is taking American wealth away from American taxpayers in the form of tariffs collected only from American taxpayers. No foreign country has ever paid an American tariff and never will. The press corps that has access to Donald Trump is the most policy ignorant press corps in the history of presidential coverage. And their ignorance enables Donald Trump to spread his ignorance. There are solid exceptions to this in the White House press corps. But Donald Trump usually doesn't allow those reporters to ask questions. And if they do, he ignores them or shouts them down. And the rest of the press corps is failing you and this moment in history every day. Joining us now, a governing policy expert, Democratic Congressman Brendan Boyle of Pennsylvania. He is the top ranking Democrat on the House Budget Committee and a member of the House Ways and Means Committee. And of course, Congressman, it's the House Ways and Means Committee that has constitutional jurisdiction over tariffs. The President doesn't. And the Senate tried to prove that again today with that vote.
- [41:37]
H
Yes, that's right. In fact, the House Ways and Means Committee, the oldest committee in Congress, the only one specifically mentioned in the Constitution, right there vested in Article 1 lies that power. It is pretty remarkable the way so many of my Republican colleagues, almost all of them, were elected in their own right and yet have voluntarily ceded the power entirely to the executive branch. So today was actually significant in the Senate because we finally saw, for the first time, I believe, in these nine, 10 months of his presidency, we saw five Republican senators actually break rank and finally end this alleged emergency power that Trump has been abusing. The downside, however, of course, is the bill now has to come over to the House of Representatives, which is apparently closed for business, as my colleague Jim McGovern was explaining. Remarkably, we haven't been in session for six weeks because Mike Johnson's fall break for his members, this extended paid vacation is actually continuing. And it looks like it's going to be for another week, a seventh week next week. Disgraceful. Shameful. But if you're someone on the right like Steve Bannon, who wants an all powerful autocratic executive branch, one way to achieve that is to have a Congress that literally is shut down at the moment.
- [43:01]
B
So as I understand it, the Trump position is we are being, we're just pulling in all this money from tariffs, but we don't absolutely do not have enough money to feed hungry people in this country.
- [43:15]
H
I mean, it's hard not to laugh, and you would except for then when you remember, my God, it's going to be millions and millions of people who are missing a paycheck or relying on those food benefits, who now won't get those benefits literally within days. So the reality is this administration could release the money for SNAP if it wanted to. Let's not forget the usda, which administers the program, does have essentially a rainy day fund which does have enough in it to cover about three quarters of benefits for this month. The reality is they just don't believe in the program. Let's not forget this is the same crowd that four months ago in what they used to call their big beautiful bill, they included in there $187 billion worth of cuts to SNAP, the largest cuts nutrition assistance in American history.
- [44:08]
B
Congressman Brendan Boyle, thank you very much for joining us tonight.
- [44:12]
H
Thank you.
- [44:12]
B
We'll be right back. That is tonight's last word.
- [44:18]
I
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