← The Last Word with Lawrence O’Donnell
The Last Word with Lawrence O’Donnell
Lawrence: Trump, who dodged Vietnam, now feels like a warrior for watching bombs drop on Iran
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Tonight on The Last Word: Congress expects to be briefed on the U.S. strike on Iran Thursday. Also, Democrats grill Emil Bove in a judicial confirmation hearing. And 16 House Republicans break rank and denounce Medicaid cuts. Sen. Sheldon Whitehouse and Rep. Brendan Boyle join Lawrence O’Donnell.
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Sam Sanders
Hey, I'm journalist Sam Sanders. I'm poet Saeed Jones. And I'm producer Zach Stafford. And we are the host of a podcast called VibeCheck. On Vibe Check, we talk about everything. News, culture and entertainment and how it all feels. That's right, we talk about any and everything on our show, from real life issues like grief to music and movie critiques. And that barely scratches the surface. Yes, indeed, and it doesn't stop there. We have got a lot to say, so join our group, chat, come to life, follow and listen to Vibe Check wherever you get your podcasts. Did you know 39% of teen drivers admit to texting while driving? Even scarier, those who text are more likely to speed and run red lights. Shockingly, 94% know it's dangerous, but do it anyway. As a parent, you can't always be in the car, but you can stay connected to their safety with Greenlight Infinity's driving reports. Monitor their driving habits, see if they're using their phone, speeding, and more. These reports provide real data for meaningful conversations about safety. Plus, with weak weekly updates, you can track their progress over time, help keep your teens safe. Sign up for Greenlight Infinity@Greenlight.com podcast. The Last Word with Lawrence O' Donnell starts right now. Hey, Lawrence. Hey, Jen. Rough night for Democratic Party establishment last night in New York. Looks like Andrew Cuomo is now going to drop out probably by the end of the week. And so, you know, that might be it. That might be it for Andrew Cuomo for sure. I do think, though, there's lots of interesting lessons from that race, not necessarily that the platform is the platform for everyone. I mean, every state is different, every district is different. But the way Mamdani campaigned I think is an interesting part of the lesson. So we'll see. Obviously, trying to keep up with what media you have to do in a campaign has never been more challenging. How to do it. And it used to be if you could, if you could master the art of, you know, the Sunday morning interview as a politician, you'd be okay. Now it is so much more than that. Well, it's media, but it's also about showing up in your own way, in authentic ways online and digital. And it's about talking about things people actually care about. And I think Cuomo kind of ran a bit of a joyless old school campaign, and that doesn't work in this day and age. And that' sthere are lots of factors here, but that certainly, I think is one of them. And he did have a massive, massive Negative to try to overcome. And it turns out that was impossible. Well, he did have 11 women accuse him of sexual harassment, which led to him resigning. So, I mean, the fact that he thought that this was going to be his comeback is maybe its own lesson. I don't know if it's a lesson, but, I mean, he had way more money. He had all the traditional endorsements. He had a lot of advantages. But he also had a lot of things that New Yorkers didn't like about him. Didn't like about him for the reason he resigned. And, you know, that certainly lived with him despite those other advantages. Yeah. And he started off where he started off in the polls is where he ended in the polls. So all the money was spent without converting a single voter according to the polls. That's right. And without, you know, former president Bill Clinton helping him or Congressman Clyburn or lots of money from Bill Ackman and from Mike Bloomberg. I mean, all of that, to your point, didn't move him and allowed. I mean, it left. There was a space because he was such a flawed candidate for someone to emerge. It was like, who was going to emerge? Was it going to be Brad Lander? Was it going to be somebody else? But I'll be interested to see if Brad Lander ends up in this administration if. And there's a long way to go here. And that is if Mamdani can pull this off in November. Yeah. We still have Eric Adams to hear from as this campaign progresses into November. So we'll see how that goes. We will see. Another flawed campaign. Thanks, Jim. But we will see. Thanks. That's right. Thank you. Thank you. Well, at a NATO summit today in the Netherlands, Donald Trump completely reversed himself on the North Atlantic Treaty Organization. A complete Trump reversal. And Donald Trump finally agrees with every president since World War II that NATO is a good thing and a good deal for the United States. Every other president has known that every day of their lives before they became president and every day that they served as president. And every president not named. Trump acted accordingly with NATO. Donald Trump spent four years as president of the United States being completely wrong about NATO, saying repeatedly that it was what he called a ripoff. That was his term for NATO. Donald Trump threatened repeatedly not to even consider defending other NATO countries if they are attacked. That is the central principle of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization as expressed in Article 5. That is Article 5 of the NATO agreement that every NATO nation supports. Today, Donald Trump, the slowest student in the history of the presidency, said this. As far as Article 5. Look, when I came here, I came here because it was something I'm supposed to be doing. But I left here a little bit different. Differently. I said, I watched the heads of these countries get up and the love and the passion that they showed for their country was unbelievable. I've never seen quite anything like it. They want to protect their country and they need the United States. And without the United States, it's not going to be the same. Without the United States, we couldn't, they couldn't really have NATO. It wouldn't work. It wouldn't work. It will in the future because now they're paying much more money, but it wouldn't work. It was great. And I left here differently. I left here saying that these people really love their countries. It's not a rip off, and we're here to help them protect their country. So that is a complete reversal by Donald Trump. And saying that NATO countries are paying more money, of course, is a misstatement of the situation. NATO countries are spending more on national defense so that they can use that additional spending to help Ukraine defend against Vladimir Putin's war on Ukraine. That is why NATO allies are spending more money on defense. Donald Trump's complete reversal on NATO will not likely be one of the headlines of the Trump participation in the NATO summit because Donald Trump speaks in such hard to follow gibberish and because Donald Trump tried to turn his public speaking at the NATO summit into a triumph for a war president that he is now pretending to be. As we reported last night, the United States assessment of the bomb damage that Donald Trump's bombing of Iran delivered is inconclusive, which makes sense when you're trying to bomb things that are underground and hard to tell how much damage has been done. The Trump administration assessment of the bombing obtained by NBC News, quote, concludes that the U.S. airstrikes on Iran's nuclear enrichment sites were not as effective as Trump claimed and that they set the Iran nuclear program back by only three to six months. Which completely contradicts Donald Trump's claim that Iran's facilities were obliterated by the American bombing. Obliterated is Donald Trump's term and only Donald Trump's term. No one else is saying that about the bombing. Donald Trump believes that the use of the word obliterated means that he personally did not just end the war between Israel and Iran, but that he personally won that war. So I have, as you know, Marco Rubio with me and Pete Hegseth, Secretary of of State and Secretary of War. Should we say Secretary, you Know, it used to be called Secretary of War. Maybe for a couple of weeks, we'll call it that. Because we feel like warriors. We feel like warriors, of course. Donald Trump feels like a warrior. Donald Trump, who evaded military service during the Vietnam War because he claimed his foot hurt, the same foot on which he spent the rest of his life playing endless miles of golf and never limping. There is no reason to believe that Donald Trump wasn't perfectly healthy enough to serve in the military during the war of his youth. But like most men who were eligible to serve in the Vietnam War at that time, Donald Trump was terrified of being sent to the jungles of Vietnam and becoming another statistic in the American military body count that was far greater than all of the wars, the American wars of the 21st century combined. And so Donald Trump, who only had to choose which ridiculous hat to wear when he went to the Situation Room to be a spectator during his war in Iran, now feels like a warrior. The war that Donald Trump experienced in that air conditioned room where he didn't even have to loosen his necktie makes Donald Trump feel like a warrior. The biggest crybaby in the history of American politics now feels like a warrior. The man who spent every single day of his political and presidential life complaining that he is being treated unfairly now feels like a warrior. The man who told his insurrectionist mob that he would go to the Capitol with them on January 6 now feels like a warrior. We all know that Donald Trump's gibberish in public speaking is very hard to follow. It is also very hard for 79 year old Donald Trump to follow, follow his own gibberish while he's saying it. And Donald Trump proved that again today when he contradicted himself in the middle of his public comments. Donald Trump was unable to adhere to his own line of argument, his own talking points, that his bombing of Iran has completely solved the problem there, ended Iran's war with Israel and eliminated any possibility of Iran developing nuclear weapons. That was the line of argument Donald Trump tried to present and did present. And then Donald Trump stumbled into saying this. You just said you believe the conflict between Israel and Iran is over. What makes you so confident it is? And what do you do if it isn't? Because I dealt with both and they're both tired, exhausted. They fought very, very hard and very viciously, very violently. And they were both satisfied to go home and get out. And can it start again? I guess someday it can. It could maybe start soon. It could maybe start soon. Remember after Hitler killed himself in the bunker in World War II and Europe ended. Remember when President Harry Truman said, can it start again? I guess someday it can. It could maybe start soon. No, Harry Truman didn't say that. And remember when World War II ended with Japan's surrender and Harry Truman said, can it start again? I guess someday it can. It could maybe start soon. No, President Harry Truman didn't say that. Because every president other than Donald Trump has known when a war has ended and when a war has just taken a pause. Think of how breathtakingly ignorant you have to be about both Iran and Israel to say that they're both exhausted and they just won't fight anymore because they're both tired. Israel has fought longer wars and has used more resources in those wars than it used against Iran. Israel does not get tired of defending itself. Donald Trump was probably speaking for himself as both tired and exhausted, and that's why he's completely incapable of thinking about what happens next. But on his best day, Donald Trump isn't capable of thinking about what happens next in any situation. Tired or not, Donald Trump is the first president of the United States to be convinced that Iran is just going to give up any interest in nuclear energy or nuclear weapons. I don't see them getting back involved in the nuclear business anymore. I think they've had it. They've been at it for 20 years, and I don't see that happening either. And immediately after saying that, Donald Trump, 79 year old, tired and exhausted, Donald Trump, after all that jet lag from all that travel, contradicted himself, himself with the possibility that Iran would, as he put it, get involved in the nuclear business again. Now, if it does, we're always there. It won't be me, it'll be somebody else. But we're there. We'll have to do something about it. So much for the president for life idea. Donald Trump is admitting that four years from now, he won't be president. And maybe the next president, or the president after that, or the president after that, will have to deal with Iran again on nuclear weapons. Which is exactly why President Obama and Secretary of State John Kerry successfully negotiated a deal with Iran in which Iran pledged in writing to never develop nuclear weapons and to allow the United States to monitor what they were doing inside Iran and inside their military facilities and allow international observers in there. Because that sort of thing involves paperwork, which also involves reading, which Donald Trump is incapable of doing and even thinking about, never mind caring about. The way I look at it, they fought, the war's done, and you know, I could get a statement that they're not going to go nuclear. We're probably going to ask for that. But they're not going to be doing it. But they're not going to be doing it anyway. They've had it. They've had it. So there's Donald Trump once again today, becoming the first president who has ever dealt with Iran, who believes now that Iran has had it, Iran has definitely just given up and given up its nuclear ambitions. That makes Donald Trump the most trusting and gullible American president ever to deal with the Iranian dictatorship. But I've asked Marco, do you want to draw. I just asked him the question as we were walking on the stage. You want to draw up a little agreement for them to sign? Because I think we can get him to sign it. I don't think it's necessary. He doesn't think it's necessary. And so Donald Trump, who now trusts Iran, doesn't think it's necessary to negotiate an agreement in writing with Iran. And simpleton Donald Trump thinks a nuclear deal with Iran is something that you can just ask the Secretary of State to draw up a little agreement for them to sign. Thinks that's how it works. And that's the kind of thought that can just occur to you when you're walking on stage to do a press conference. That's how this stuff works in Donald Trump's tiny mind. That's how much planning Donald Trump thinks is involved in something like the extraordinary and historic nuclear deal with Iran that John Kerry negotiated. And Donald Trump, in the single stupidest diplomatic act by an American president in foreign policy involving Iran in the 21st century, simply ripped up. And that's why Benjamin Netanyahu went to war with Iran. That's why Donald Trump dropped bombs on Iran, because Donald Trump ripped up the nuclear agreement in which Iran pledged not to develop nuclear weapons and pledged transparency for international monitors to check on what Iran was doing in all the kinds of military sites that Israel and the United States bombed. Donald Trump blabbed on about how much he trusts Iran now and how much he doesn't care if there's an agreement. We're going to talk to them next week with Iran. We may sign an agreement. I don't know. To me, I don't think it's that necessary. I mean, they had a war, they fought. Now they're going back to their world. I don't care if I have an agreement or not. We. The only thing we'd be asking for is what we were asking for before, about we want no nuclear. But we. We destroyed the nuclear. In other words, that's destroyed. I said Iran will not have nuclear. Well, we blew it up. It's blown up to kingdom come. And so I don't feel very strongly about it. If we got a document, wouldn't be bad. We're going to meet with them, actually. We're going to meet with them. Did you hear what he actually said in the middle of that gibberish? He said these words exactly. They fought, and now they're going back to their world. I don't care if I have an agreement or not. So Iran fought, and now they're going back to their world. In other words, Donald Trump is asking nothing of Iran. After dropping bombs on Iran, that makes him feel like a warrior. Donald Trump says that they're just going to go back to their world. They're going back to their world, meaning Iran's dictatorial regime. They're going back to their world. In other words, they're going back to doing whatever they were doing before and whatever they want to do. And Donald Trump doesn't care. Donald Trump is totally fine with that. And that's not what you do when you win wars. When you win a war, you tell the other side what to do. When we won World War II, we told Germany and Japan exactly what they would be allowed to do and what they would not be allowed to do for many, many years to come. And Germany and Japan fully obeyed the orders of the victorious United States of America, because that's how it works when you really win a war. Donald Trump has not won a war. And there is no war on the horizon that Donald Trump will win. And he has not ended the war and conflict between Israel and Iran, just as he failed to end Vladimir Putin's war in Ukraine, which, of course, Donald Trump famously said that he could end on the very first day of his presidency. You once said that you would end the Ukraine war in 24 hours. You later said you said that sarcastically. Of course it was. Was sarcastic. Of course it was sarcastic. I didn't know that. He never mentioned that it was sarcastic during the presidential campaign. Before I even arrive at the Oval Office, I will have the disastrous war between Russia and Ukraine settled. It will be settled quickly. If I was president, there would not have been a war with Russia in Ukraine. Zero chance. I'll have that done in 24 hours. I'll have it done. You need the power of the presidency to do it. You heard it. I will leave it to you to decide if Donald Trump's sarcastic defense that he mounted today for the first time is in any way convincing. But you've now been in office for five months and five days. Why have you not been able to end the Ukraine war? Because it's more difficult than people would have any idea. Vladimir Putin has been more difficult. Frankly, I had some problems with Zelensky, you may have read about him. And it's been more difficult than other wars. I mean, look, we just ended a war in 12 days that was simmering for 30 years. Frankly, everyone in the world knew how difficult it was, other than the stupidest president in history. So there's Donald Trump claiming to have ended everything that has been simmering between Israel and Iran for the last 30 years. Call it a war, if you will. Donald Trump has ended all of it. No problems now between those two countries. It's all done thanks to Donald Trump. And at the same time, Donald Trump is saying that Vladimir Putin's war is more difficult than other wars. He could have said something like that on the campaign trail. Donald Trump has no sarcasm defense at all to the way he said it at the Republican Convention. I will end every single international crisis that the current administration has created, including the horrible war with Russia and Ukraine, which would have never happened if I was president. No sarcasm there. Now. What he used to call a horrible war, he says, is more difficult than other wars. So now Vladimir Putin's war on Ukraine is more difficult than other wars. Donald Trump, of course, lied as a presidential candidate about everything, including ending Vladimir Putin's war on Ukraine. The reason things have to be put in writing after a war is to prevent wars from happening again. What Donald Trump doesn't know is that after World War II, we changed the name of the Department of War and the Secretary of War to the Department of Defense and the Secretary of Defense. And the job of the Department of Defense was to prevent wars. The theory of the American military buildup after World War II was to maintain a strong enough American military that would discourage war around the world. Success at the Defense Department would mean no wars. Success for a Secretary of Defense would mean no wars. The North Atlantic Treaty Organization was created to prevent war from happening. The Iran deal, negotiated by Secretary of State John Kerry during the Obama administration, was to prevent the war we just saw with Iran, the war that made Donald Trump feel like a warrior from the comfort of the situation around. There is only one president in our history who is shallow enough and vulgar enough to claim the title of warrior for himself because he sat in the Situation Room and watched American Planes drop bombs thousands of miles away, bombs whose actual effects remain unknown as of this hour. Tonight, leading off our discussion is Democratic Senator Sheldon Whitehouse of Rhode Island. He's a member of the Senate Judiciary Committee, Senate Finance Committee, Senate Budget Committee. He's the top Democrat on the subcommittee on federal courts. Senator Whitehouse, thank you very much for joining us tonight. What is your confidence level in Donald Trump's notion that he has just won a war? Not very high, but I do think that, that he's finally making sense on NATO and beginning, it seems, to recognize the importance of NATO to our security. So that was a good step, and I hope it sticks with him. You never know whether it's one day to another. And I think you mentioned him saying that Vladimir Putin is very difficult. So maybe there's a tiny inkling beginning to emerge that Putin is actually a dangerous enemy for us and that he shouldn't be so obsequious to him all the time. And it's too early to tell how the Iranian nuclear program is going to go forward. But one thing I think we can agree is that the American military pulled off a pretty remarkable mission, flying from the Midwest, around the world without ever touching ground, delivering ammunition that nobody else has in the world with extraordinary precision on two of the most heavily protected Iranian sites, and then flying all the way back home with no harm to any American. And of course, that planning predated Donald Trump. Much of this mission plan was probably done under President Biden. But whether or not Trump or Biden did it, I think we can take considerable pride in the technical proficiency with which this mission was executed. What's your reaction to Donald Trump saying to his secretary of state today just as he walked up to a microphone, maybe you want to get something in writing with Iran? Well, you know, they kind of he likes to play razzle dazzle and will often say things when he doesn't know what he's talking about. And that can be pretty dangerous in dealing with statecraft. So I don't really feel much comfort from that kind of public commentary. I mean, I was raised in diplomat families. And you prepare for meetings and you know what you're going to try to do going in. And you, you know, even in very challenging, contested situations, you try to have a plan and execute on it and free fire, razzle dazzle. Just whatever comes to your mind being said as the president of the United States can be pretty damn dangerous. Senator, please stay with us. We want to squeeze in a commercial break here, but we want to get to the pretty dramatic hearing in the Senate Judiciary Committee today with Donald Trump's former criminal defense lawyer now in a confirmation hearing to be a appeals court judge and refusing to answer the simplest questions and having a really stunning failure of memory in that testimony. We'll be right back with Senator Whitehouse. Hey, I'm journalist Sam Sanders. I'm Poet Saeed Jones. And I'm producer Zach Stafford. And we are the hosts of a podcast called Vibe Check. On Vibecheck. We talk about everything news, culture and entertainment and how it all feels. That's right, we talk about any and everything on our show, from real life issues like grief to music and movie critiques. And that barely scratches the surface. Yes, indeed, and it doesn't stop there. We have got a lot to say, so join our group, chat, come to life, follow and listen to Vibe Check wherever you get your podcasts. Did you know that parents rank financial literacy as the number one most difficult life skill to teach? Meet Greenlight, the debit card and money app for families. With Greenlight, you can set up chores, automate allowance and keep an eye on your kids spending with real time notifications, kids learn to earn, save and spend wisely. And parents can rest easy knowing their kids are learning about money with guardrails in place. Sign up for Greenlight today@Greenlight.com podcast coverage varies by plan. View contracts and exclusions@EnduranceWarranty.com if you're driving a car or truck with an expired warranty and suddenly lost your transmission or needed a full engine repair, would a $4,000 repair bill leave you stranded? I'm Danica Patrick. Don't get caught off guard with a vehicle breakdown. Choose the company I trust Endurance, no matter the mileage. If your vehicle is less than 20 years old, endurance offers comprehensive auto protection plans for any budget, protection on the drivetrain, electrical transmission, AC and more, plus benefits like 247 roadside assistance and rental car reimbursement. On any plan, Endurance handles everything from making the claim through the repair process to paying the certified mechanic of your choice. Don't get caught off guard with a vehicle breakdown. Act now and get one full year of elite benefits, a $2,000 value free. Visit endurancewarranty.com for your fast free quote today. That's endurancewarranty.com we have an individual here who is here seeking confirmation to one of the highest judicial offices in the land. I'm asking quite legitimate questions about potential misconduct in office and the fact that I can't get anything resembling a straight answer in the circumstances that we're in right now. I think is signals a really bad moment for this committee. Donald Trump's former criminal defense lawyer, who is currently Donald Trump's principal associate deputy attorney general, testified, or should we say refused to testify at his confirmation hearing today for a federal judgeship on the Third Circuit Court of Appeals. Emil Bove was heavily involved in what a federal judge found to be an illicit deal to drop criminal charges against New York City Mayor Eric Adams in exchange for Mayor Adams cooperation enforcing Donald Trump's immigration policy. Did you ever talk to Stephen Miller before you filed the memorandum on February 10 ordering the dismissal of the Adams charges? Senator, I responded to Senator Kennedy's questions based on a publicly filed document that described the attorney general. Did you talk to Stephen Miller? I'm not going to describe the participants in conversations. So you won't answer that question? No, I will not, Senator. Why? Because it is not appropriate for me to discuss. It is appropriate for you to tell us whom you consulted before taking action on behalf of the United States of America. This week, a whistleblower who was fired by the Trump Justice Department submitted a statement to the Justice Department inspector general and to the Senate Judiciary Committee saying that he was in a meeting where, quote, bovet stated that DOJ would need to consider telling the courts fuck you and ignore any such court order. In the complaint, it says Beauvais stated that DOJ would need to consider telling the courts you and ignoring any such court order. Did you say anything of that kind in the meeting, Senator? I have no recollection of saying anything of that kind. To the extent I don't. You recall, Mr. Bovet, if you said or suggested during a meeting with Justice Department lawyers maybe they should consider telling the court you. It seems to me that would be something you'd remember. Unless that's the kind of thing you say frequently. Well, I've certainly said things encouraging litigators at the department to fight hard for valid positions that we have to take and defend our clients. And have you frequently suggested that they say you and ignore court orders? Is that also something you frequently do such you might not remember doing it in this occasion? No. And as I explained, I have never directed. Did you or did you not make those comments during that meeting? Which comment, Senator? You really need me to repeat it? Did you suggest, as Mr. Reuveni wrote, that DOJ would need to consider telling the courts you and ignore any such court order? I did not suggest that there would be any need to consider ignoring court orders. At the point of that meeting. There were no court Orders to discuss. Well, did you suggest telling the courts you in any manner? I don't recall. You just don't remember that Senator Sheldon Whitehouse was at that hearing. He's back with us. Senator Whitehouse, it sounds like Emil Bove might be worried that there is an audio tape of what he actually said in that room that might explain his retreat to what he might think is the safe zone of I don't recall. Yeah, he was clearly dodging around and avoiding questions in the hearing. He sounded more like a mob witness from the old days who'd been called before the Senate than a sincere applicant for one of the higher judicial offices. And he got a lot of COVID unfortunately, from the Republicans in enabling him to avoid those answers. It was actually a pretty remarkable hearing in that sense because the chairman, the Republican chairman, led with the invitation to Bovey to refuse to answer questions based on deliberative process and attorney client privileges, which Congress for decades has refused institutionally to accept as a limitation on Congress's constitutional oversight. Neither of those privileges is in the Constitution. We've always said as a body that our oversight responsibilities, which are in the Constitution, overwhelm these non constitutional privileges. And so to have the Judiciary Chairman willy nilly cough that up, something I don't think has ever been conceded by Congress before, just to give this guy cover so that he could fail to answer questions. And if you don't mind me going on just for one minute, the Blumenthal questioning was important about his comments to Stephen Miller, because the backdrop, your viewers might not know, is that the Judiciary Committee has, way back to Attorney General Reno, required the department to maintain what we call a contact memo that limits the number of people in the department and the number of the people in the White House who can talk to each other about ongoing cases. It's a very small number of only very high ranking officials. And if this conversation took place between Bovey and Miller, it would have violated that memo. So this was a very important question that Senator Blumenthal was asking. And his failure to answer is a failure to answer whether or not he violated a department policy, which is a really lousy answer for somebody seeking to be a judge. And as anyone who's spent any time around the Senate knows before the age of Donald Trump, Chairman Chuck Grassley and other Republican members of that committee would be as fully interested in that information as you are, and they would pursue it just as energetically no matter which party the nominee came from. But this is the new Trump Republican Party. The chairman has specifically said in the past that the deliberative process privilege should not interfere with the Judiciary Committee's ability to get documents and information. So it was weird. And I don't know if this was apparent from the record of the of the hearing, but both Todd Blanch and Pam Bondi, the attorney general, came over to give the eyeball to Republicans and make sure that they were lined up also. So with that crowd of Trump MAGA AG folks coming over with this really unusual concession by the chairman at the outset that Bovey didn't have to answer questions, and then him refusing to answer questions without even asserting a particular privilege, just saying I don't think it's appropriate, not his call. He has to answer the questions if he wants to be a judge. I strongly suspect that is the first time in the history of the Senate Judiciary Committee that an attorney general sat in the audience of a hearing. That's something new. Senator Whitehouse, thank you very much for joining us tonight. And coming up, the Trump Republican budget bill is in effect, a tax increase and cost of living increase for one third of Americans. And it's not the richest one third. They will of course, get a tax cut. No one in the House of Representatives is doing a better job of exposing those kinds of moving parts of the Trump Republican budget bill than our next guest, the top Democrat on the Budget Committee, Congressman Brendan Boyle. That's next. Hey, I'm journalist Sam Sanders. I'm poet Saeed Jones. And I'm producer Zack Stafford. And we are the host of a podcast called Vibe Check. On Vibe Check, we talk about everything. News, culture and entertainment and how it all feels. That's right. We talk about any and everything on our show, from real life issues like grief to music and movie critiques. And that barely scratches the surface. Yes, indeed. And it doesn't stop there. We have got a lot to say, so join our group chat, come to life. Follow and listen to Vibe Check. Wherever you get your podcasts, USAA knows dynamic duos can save the day. Like superheroes and sidekicks or auto and home insurance. With usaa, you can bundle your auto and home and save up to 10%. Tap the banner to learn more and get a'@usaa.com bundle restrictions apply. You know who's surprisingly good with money? Greenlight Kids. The other day, mine stopped to think about the ROI on a bag of chips. Seriously. From getting paid for doing chores around the house to saving up for concerts, Greenlight's teaching my kids how to handle their money. Greenlight your kids financial future with the number one Family finance and safety app. Try Greenlight risk free@greenlight.com podcast today. Our next guest, Congressman Brendan Boyle said this about the Trump Republican budget bill. Here is the state of play. According to the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office, the Republican bill, the big beautiful bill for billionaires, will throw 16 million Americans off their health care. That is a fact. It will also deny nutrition assistance to another four and a half million Americans. Why? In furtherance of more than $5 trillion worth of tax cuts, almost all of which go to the top 1% of Americans. In fact, this tax cut will end up being an increase for the bottom third of Americans when you look at the bill in its totality. So there is no defense on this side of the aisle for any actual instances of waste and fraud and frankly, criminality. But the real fraud here is to pretend that 16 million Americans who are going to lose their health care are all just defrauding the system. That doesn't pass the smell test. No rational person recognizes that millions and millions of Americans are going to lose their health care, but they're all somehow fraudsters. What an actually insulting perception one must have of the American people. Punchbowl news reports. During a closed door meeting Yesterday, Senator Mitch McConnell gave a short speech to Republican senators saying in part that failure is not an option. But McConnell also added this, which we're told shocked many senators in the room. I know a lot of us are hearing from people back home about Medicaid, but they'll get over it. In response to that, New York's Democratic Governor Kathy Hochul said Mitch McConnell and the rest of the Senate GOP have the best health care in the world, but if you get sick, they want you to get over it. Joining us now is Democratic Congressman Brendan Boyle of Pennsylvania, the top Democrat on the House Budget Committee and a member of the powerful Ways and Means Committee. Representative Boyle, thank you very much for joining us tonight. This net effect of what this bill means, taking in all the governmental interactions that affect the bottom third of income earners and taxpayers, is something you've been able to highlight. Tell us what it actually means. Yeah. Great to be back with you, Lawrence. And briefly, the Joint Committee on Taxation as well as some other independent nonpartisan outside organizations have analyzed this bill in all of its components. So not just the changes in tax rates, but also the changes to, you know, four and a half million people losing SNAP, 16 million Americans losing Medicaid, the half a trillion dollars worth of cuts that are now impacting Medicare and on and on. And when you add all of that up what you find is the bottom one third of Americans by income will actually be poorer as a result of this legislation that in terms of dollars and cents is every household that makes under $55,000 a year. Carson, we have to squeeze in a commercial break here. We're going to continue this conversation right after this break with Congressman Brendan Boyle. We have several Republicans who've come out and said, hey, these Medicaid cuts, in the words of Josh Hawley, are immoral. We always like to quote Josh Hawley at Democratic press conferences that they are immoral. Or we have heard that Senator Tillis was distributing pieces of paper showing how much it hurt North Carolinians when it comes to the Medicaid cuts. We also know other senators have raised issues. We have another group that is talking about the impact on the debt. They're right, it's bad. Back with us, Democratic Congressman Brendan Boyle of Pennsylvania. And in addition to what Senator Klobuchar is describing in the Senate, as you know, there are 16 House Republicans saying they cannot vote for what the Senate version of the bill does with Medicaid. Is it possible that this bill will fail in either the Senate or the House? It's certainly possible. Remember, it only passed by one vote in the House of Representatives. And I think the way things are looking in the Senate, I wouldn't be surprised if that's a one vote margin as well before finally the bill comes back to us in front of the House for a final up and down vote. I will say though, when it comes to Republicans standing up to Donald Trump, I'm not going to bet my mortgage on that because there are a number of House Republicans that are in what's called the known to fold caucus. They will huff on a Monday, puff on a Tuesday and by the end of the week, they are voting with Donald Trump 100% of the time. So I think that outreach from the American people, given the deep unpopularity of this bill, could make a real difference, specifically for those Republicans who are in battleground seats. Yeah. And that's the point that Republican Senator Tillis has made to Republicans saying that they will lose, they'll lose control of the Senate, they'll lose control of the House if they vote for this thing. Look, this bill, and again, these aren't my numbers. This is Congressional Budget Office, the official scorekeepers. It will be the biggest loss of health care in American history. I have absolutely no doubt whatsoever that if Republicans succeed in passing this bill, they will lose the House of Representatives next November and that the 16 who are listed as claiming now that they will not vote for it. They're telling their constituents, 16 of them, we will not vote for the Senate Medicaid provisions. So they either violate their own public pledge to their constituents or this bill fails when it comes back to the House. If it comes back to the House. Yeah. Although I would just remind us that every single House Republican, except for Tom Massie, has already voted for the biggest Medicaid cuts in American history. They already are going to have to own that vote. So they've been tested once before. They have failed that test. And here is really the opportunity for activism from the American people. We have seen protest upon protest over the last five months. It's really been inspiring. But I think over the next couple weeks, we need to see even more of that to turn up the heat again, specifically on those Republicans like Thom Tillis in North Carolina and about a dozen or so Republicans in the House whose real race won't be the primary as it will be the general election come next November. Congressman Brendan Boyle, thank you very much for joining us tonight. Thank you. We'll be right back. That is tonight's last word. Hey, I'm journalist Sam Sanders. I'm poet Saeed Jones. And I'm producer Zach Stafford. And we are the hosts of a podcast called Vibe Check on Vibecheck. We talk about everything, news, culture and entertainment and how it all feels. That's right. We talk about any and everything on our show, from real life issues like grief to music and movie critiques. And that barely scratches the surface. 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