Lawrence: VP Vance wants WSJ to release the Trump letter to Epstein, which could destroy Trump

Summary

Summary of "Lawrence: VP Vance Wants WSJ to Release the Trump Letter to Epstein, Which Could Destroy Trump"

Released on July 18, 2025, "The Last Word with Lawrence O’Donnell" delves into the explosive revelations linking former President Donald Trump to the Jeffrey Epstein scandal. Utilizing his extensive experience in politics and media, Lawrence O'Donnell provides an in-depth analysis of the latest developments, the political ramifications, and the potential fallout for Trump’s presidency.

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1. Breaking News: WSJ Uncovers Trump’s Letter to Epstein

Lawrence O'Donnell kicks off the episode by highlighting a groundbreaking report from The Wall Street Journal (WSJ). The WSJ has uncovered a letter addressed to Jeffrey Epstein’s 50th birthday, purportedly bearing Donald Trump's name. The letter concludes with the cryptic line, "Happy Birthday and may every day be another wonderful secret." This revelation ties Trump directly to Epstein during a period when Epstein was actively involved in illegal activities.

Notable Quote:

"The letter concludes happy birthday and may every day be another wonderful secret."
— Lawrence O'Donnell [10:25]

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2. Trump's Response: Denial and Legal Threats

In reaction to the WSJ's report, Donald Trump vehemently denies authorship of the letter and any association with its content. He labels the story as "fake" and threatens to sue both the WSJ and Rupert Murdoch personally for defamation.

Notable Quote:

"This is not me. This is a fake thing. I never wrote a picture in my life. I don't draw pictures of women."
— Donald Trump [22:30]

O'Donnell emphasizes that Trump's response includes a commitment to legal action, underscoring the severity with which he is treating the allegations.

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3. Vice President J.D. Vance’s Bold Stance

Contrasting Trump's defensive approach, Vice President J.D. Vance takes a radically different stance by openly demanding the release of the disputed letter. Vance accuses the WSJ of unethical journalism and questions the authenticity of the letter, pushing for transparency despite potential political fallout.

Notable Quote:

"Forgive my language, but this story is complete and utter bullcrap. The Wall Street Journal should be ashamed for publishing."
— J.D. Vance [19:17]

O'Donnell suggests that Vance's actions could signal a significant shift in the Trump administration, potentially positioning Vance as a contender for the presidency if the scandal deepens.

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4. Senate and Government Reactions

Senator Sheldon Whitehouse addresses the Senate Judiciary Committee, expressing concern over the withholding of the Epstein files by the Department of Justice (DOJ). He calls for transparency, especially given the involvement of individuals like Emil Beauvais, Trump’s former criminal defense lawyer and a nominee for a federal appeals court position.

Notable Quote:

"The public has a right to know. And a person being nominated for one of the highest courts in our land who clearly played a role in this matter of grave national concern should actually... we should know what he knew and what he did."
— Senator Sheldon Whitehouse [30:46]

Former U.S. Attorney Harry Lippmann further elaborates on the complexities of grand jury transcripts and the legal constraints that may prevent the full release of the Epstein files.

Notable Quote:

"There is a real whiff of desperation about the Trump White House right now."
— Harry Lippmann [34:14]

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5. House Republicans’ Non-Binding Resolution

House Republicans introduce a non-binding resolution in the House Rules Committee, ostensibly calling for the release of the Epstein files. However, O'Donnell and guest Congressman Brendan Boyle critique the resolution as a mere symbolic gesture lacking substantive legal authority.

Notable Quote:

"What Republican leaders have attempted to do is this really smokescreen kind of giving House Republicans something they could point to, but in the end is actually fooling their own voters."
— Congressman Brendan Boyle [41:06]

Despite its lack of force, the resolution highlights internal pressures within the Republican Party from the MAGA base, signaling a potential fracture in Trump’s unwavering support.

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6. Public and Supporter Reactions

The episode captures the shifting sentiments among Trump’s supporters. A prominent MAGA supporter expresses disillusionment, labeling the movement as "the biggest scam in American history" and criticizing Trump for alienating loyal followers.

Notable Quote:

"When we look back on the history of populism in America, we are going to look back on the MAGA movement as the biggest scam in American history."
— Trump Supporter [19:17]

This public fallout signifies a critical moment where the Epstein scandal may erode Trump’s longstanding support base.

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7. The Human Cost: Victims’ Suffering

O'Donnell poignantly shifts focus to the victims of Epstein’s crimes, recounting the harrowing testimony of a 14-year-old girl who endured rape at Epstein’s hands. He underscores the ongoing trauma experienced by the victims and criticizes Trump for his lack of empathy and acknowledgment.

Notable Quote:

"14-year-old girls raped by Jeffrey Epstein suffered and suffered again and suffered again."
— Lawrence O'Donnell [19:17]

By highlighting the victims' pain, O'Donnell emphasizes the real human impact behind the political turmoil.

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8. Looking Ahead: Predictions and Future Implications

Concluding the episode, O'Donnell reiterates his initial prediction that the Epstein-Trump saga will intensify within the next 24 hours. He anticipates further revelations, escalated legal battles, and deeper political ramifications that could significantly undermine Trump’s presidency.

Notable Quote:

"There will be much, much more to report on this crisis. And I will be here tomorrow night at that time doing exactly that."
— Lawrence O'Donnell [40:06]

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Conclusion

In this episode of "The Last Word with Lawrence O’Donnell," listeners are offered a comprehensive examination of the burgeoning crisis surrounding Donald Trump’s ties to Jeffrey Epstein. Through meticulous reporting, insightful commentary, and a focus on the humanitarian aspect, O'Donnell presents a compelling narrative of political scandal, legal battles, and the potential downfall of a polarizing figure.

Transcript

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[Lawrence O'Donnell]

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[Alicia]

I think that is a safe bet, my friend.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

We will see 24 hours from now. We will, we will see. But that's, that's as long as I'll go. By the way, in terms of predictions in Trump world, the farthest out I can possibly see is 24 hours. And you even that. Just a guess. Smart man. Thanks, Alicia. Thank you, thank you. Well, as the world now knows, the breaking news of the night is that Donald Trump is sinking deeper and deeper into the Jeffrey Epstein scandal with reporting from the Wall Street Journal tonight describing a birthday letter to Jeffrey Epstein on the occasion of Jeffrey Epstein's 50th birthday. The wall Street Journal says the letter bears Trump's name and that letter's final line says Happy Birthday and may every day be another wonderful secret. And Donald Trump's latest panic response to what is now a fully out of control situation for the Trump administration is a post on social media within the last hour saying, I have asked Attorney General Pam Bondi to produce any and all pertinent grand jury testimony subject to court approval. It is entirely possible that the court will not approve the release of any of the grand jury testimony in the case because Jeffrey Epstein's co defendant and convicted co conspirator, Ghislaine Maxwell is still an active litigant in the case appealing her conviction. And the grand jury testimony was used in the prosecution of Ghislaine Maxwell. If she's successful in that appeal, she could have a retrial that could include some of that grand jury material. A judge might want to protect all of that. And the Epstein files that people want to see, that Trump supporters have demanded to see for years include much, much more than grand jury testimony. It includes FBI reports, FBI notes, prosecutors, not endless streams of paper far beyond just grand jury transcripts. And the Attorney General knows that. And that's why Pam Bondi responded to Donald Trump on social media saying, quote, president Trump, we are ready to move the court tomorrow to unseal the grand jury transcripts. And that won't do it. That will not quiet the revolt in Trump world about this. Because with the publication of that story by the Wall Street Journal, Donald Trump has now sunk to the lowest point in his presidency. Because this story and only this story, has separated Donald Trump from some of his most fervent and frenzied supporters in the past who are now in a frenzy of outrage about Donald Trump blocking the release of the Epstein files, which according to the Wal Street Journal, contained that birthday message bearing Trump's name to Jeffrey Epstein. In 2003, when Jeffrey Epstein was, according to criminal evidence developed years later, routinely raping children, especially 14 year old girls, which was apparently the target age for Jeffrey Epstein in the selection of his victims. That's when this letter was addressed to a child rapist bearing Donald Trump's name that said happy birthday and may every day be another wonderful secret in the middle of what we now know was Jeffrey Epstein's dedicated pursuit of child rape victims. That was Jeffrey Epstein's biggest secret at the time. We don't know what the secret the letter is referring to. We don't know if Donald Trump knew that Jeffrey Epstein was an unrelenting, predatory child rapist at the time, that Donald Trump was friendly with Jeffrey Epstein, to the point that Jeffrey Epstein described Donald Trump then as his closest friend. You know how much trouble a politician is in when stories like this break. Not that there's ever been a story like this, but when scandals break, you know how much trouble the politicians in by the reactions to the story, there are several people mentioned in the Wall Street Journal report. Donald Trump is just one of them. Other people mentioned in that report include Jeffrey Epstein's former lawyer Alan Dershowitz and Jeffrey Epstein's largest financial benefactor, billionaire Leslie Wexner. No one mentioned in the Wall Street Journal report tonight disputes anything in the report except Donald Trump. There is a letter in that same collection of birthday letters from Alan Dershowitz and another one from Leslie Wexner. When reached by the Wall Street Journal, Alan Dershowitz said, quote, it's been a long time and I don't recall the content of what I may have written. Billionaire Leslie Wexner, quote, declined to comment through a spokesman. So no dispute from them about the reporting on them and their birthday Letters to Jeffrey Epstein. Reporting by the Wall Street Journal tonight. The Wall Street Journal reports about the documents, which NBC News has not independently verified. Ghislaine Maxwell collected letters from Trump and dozens of Epstein's other associates for a 2003 birthday album, according to documents reviewed by the Wall Street Journal. Pages from the leather bound album assembled before Epstein was first arrested in 2006 are among the documents examined by Justice Department officials who investigated Epstein and Maxwell years ago, according to people who have reviewed the pages. It's unclear if any of the pages are part of the Trump administration's recent review. The Justice Department, run by Donald Trump's Attorney General Pam Bondi, has control of the entirety of the Epstein files, including the Epstein birthday material quoted by the Wall Street Journal. The Justice Department officials didn't respond to requests for comment or addressed questions about whether the Trump page and other pages of the birthday album were were part of the agency's recent documents review. The FBI declined to comment. So the Justice Department does not dispute one word of the Wall Street Journal reporting tonight. The FBI does not dispute one word of the Wall Street Journal reporting tonight. Not one word. In Alan Dershowitz's birthday letter to Jeffrey Epstein, he made a joke about Bill Clinton. The Wall Street Journal report tonight says, quote, trump along with others, including Clinton, also times on flight logs for Epstein's private jet. A spokesman for Clinton referred to a 2019 statement that former President Clinton had cut off ties more than a decade before Epstein's second arrest and didn't know about Epstein's alleged crimes. So Bill Clinton, another person mentioned in the Wall Street Journal reporting tonight, does not dispute a word of the Wall Street Journal reporting. The only person mentioned in the Wall Street Journal reporting tonight who is disputing that reporting is Donald Trump. Here is the Wall Street Journal's description of that birthday letter to Jeffrey Epstein. The letter bearing Trump's name, which was reviewed by the Journal, is bawdy. Like others in the album, it contains several lines of typewritten text framed by the outline of a naked woman, which appears to be hand drawn with a heavy marker. A pair of small arcs denotes the woman's breasts, and the future president's signature is a squiggly Donald below her waist, mimicking pubic hair. The letter concludes happy birthday and may every day be another wonderful secret. In an interview with the Journal on Tuesday evening, Trump denied writing the letter or drawing the picture. This is not me. This is a fake thing. It's a fake Wall Street Journal story, he said. I never wrote a picture in my life. I don't draw pictures of women, he said. It's not my langu. It's not my words. He told the Journal he was preparing to file a lawsuit if it published an article. I'm going to sue the Wall Street Journal just like I sued everyone else, he said. The Journal offered a full description of the birthday letter without reproducing a copy of the birthday letter in their reporting. Inside the reporting says. Inside the outline of the naked woman was a typewritten note styled as an imaginary conversation between Trump and Epstein, written in the third person voiceover. There must be more to life than having everything, the note began. Donald yes, there is. But I won't tell you what it is. Nor will I, since I also know what it is. We have certain things in common, Jeffrey. Jeffrey yes, we do. Come to think of it, Donald, enigmas never age. Have you noticed that? Jeffrey As a matter of fact, it was clear to me the last time I saw you. Donald a pal is a wonderful thing. Happy birthday. And may every day be another wonderful secret. The year before that 2003 letter was written, Donald Trump supplied this quote to New York magazine for a profile of Jeffrey Epstein. I've known Jeff for 15 years. Terrific guy. He's a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do. And many of them are on the younger side. No doubt about it. Jeffrey enjoys his social life. His social life led to criminal charges in Florida, for which he made a sweetheart deal with Florida prosecutors, and then, years later, federal charges of sex trafficking in New York, which led to Jeffrey Epstein's death in federal prison during Donald Trump's first presidency. With Donald Trump's administration in complete control of federal prisons in the first year of the Trump presidency, the first Trump presidency. Jeffrey Epstein told Trump biographer Michael Wolf in a recorded interview, quote, I was Donald's closest friend for 10 years. The Trump White House reaction to this story tonight has been chaotic and continues to be chaotic. At 8:33pm Donald Trump posted on social media his threat and only his threat. It's just a threat to sue the Wall Street Journal saying the Wall Street Journal and Rupert Murdoch personally were warned directly by President Donald J. Trump that the supposed letter they printed by President Trump to Epstein was a fake and if they print it, they will be sued. Mr. Murdoch stated that he would take care of it, but obviously did not have the power to do so. The editor of the Wall Street Journal, Emma Tucker, was told directly by Caroline Levitt and by President Trump that the letter was a fake. But Emma Tucker didn't want to hear that. Instead, they are going with a false, malicious and defamatory story anyway. President Trump will be suing the Wall Street Journal, News Corp. And Mr. Murdoch shortly. Donald Trump has issued an uncountable number of threats to sue people who he has then chosen not to sue. Rupert Murdoch has the power to stop the Wall Street Journal from publishing anything. Rupert Murdoch and the Wall Street Journal facing a lawsuit threat from Donald Trump and going forward with their reporting is a very strong statement by them in their own confidence in the Wall Street Journal's reporting. Before Donald Trump posted that on social media tonight, his vice president got out ahead of Donald Trump on social media and said something that Donald Trump refused to say in his own social media Post. What J.D. vance wrote tonight could be his first big move to become the next President of the United States without waiting for the next election. Because what J.D. vance wrote tonight adds fuel to the fire burning in Trump world about the Epstein files, which now will burn all the hotter because of the Wall Street Journal's reporting tonight, J.D. vance said what could be the most harmful thing anyone on the Trump team could say tonight. In his social media post, JD Vance used Donald Trump's new favorite form of public presidential profanity. In J.D. vance's best imitation of Donald Trump, J.D. vance wrote, forgive my language, but this story is complete and utter bullcrap. The Wall Street Journal should be ashamed for publishing. Where is the letter? Would you be shocked to learn they never showed it to us before publishing it? Does anyone honestly believe this sounds like Donald Trump? And in another post, J.D. vance wrote, doesn't it violate some rule of journalistic ethics to publish a letter like this without showing it to the victim of this hit piece? The answer is no. It does not violate journalistic ethics. And the worst thing that can happen to Donald Trump is for the Wall Street Journal or anyone else to release publicly a copy of that letter. The worst thing that could happen to Donald Trump is exactly what his vice president, J.D. vance, is demanding tonight. J.D. vance, the person who would move up to the presidency if this issue becomes so difficult that it drives Donald Trump out of the presidency through impeachment or resignation. We have seen this happen to a president before and Donald Trump has never been weaker. And J.D. vance, J.D. vance of all people is saying, show us the letter, demanding to see the letter. Donald Trump did not dare to say where is the letter? In his social media post tonight, which occurred 40 minutes after JD Vance's social media post tonight. Donald Trump is not asking to see that letter. Donald Trump doesn't want you to see that letter, but J.D. vance wants you to see that letter. If J.D. vance creates a groundswell demand by more and more Trump supporters for the release of that letter, that could do more damage to Donald Trump than anything that has ever happened to Donald Trump in his entire political career. And it's J.D. vance who's doing this. If J.D. vance wanted to defend Donald Trump tonight, no one, absolutely no one would have advised him to say, where is the letter? No one would have advised him to try to provoke Rupert Murdoch tomorrow to release that letter. No one would have advised J.D. vance to provoke the Wall Street Journal tomorrow or someone else to release that letter. That is the most dangerous thing J.D. vance could have said tonight. If J.D. vance wanted to harm Donald Trump tonight, wanted to start forcing him out of the presidency, demanding to see the letter would be a very good way to do that. Earlier today, before knowing anything about what the Wall Street Journal reported tonight, Donald Trump's first vice president tried to cause Donald Trump as much trouble as as his current vice president has done tonight. I think the time has come for the administration to release all of the files regarding Jeffrey Epstein's investigation and prosecution. It's important that we protect the names of the victims. They should be excluded from any disclosure. Here's the way it was going for Donald Trump among his previously fanatical supporters before the Wall Street Journal's reporting tonight. Here's a well known anti Semitic holocaust denying Trump supporter who had dinner with Donald Trump at Mar a Lago once today, reacting to what Donald Trump said about supporters like this guy yesterday, when Donald Trump said I don't want their support anymore and he called them all, including Tucker Carlson and this guy, weaklings.

[Trump Supporter]

And now he says if you're not on board with the Epstein coverup, oh, I don't want your support. You're a weakling. You, you, you suck. You are fat. You are a joke. You are stupid. You are not funny. You are not as smart as you think you are. You are. And honestly, I. And if you watch my show, you know, I've been very critical. I've never been this far. This just goes to show this entire thing has been a scam. When we look back on the history of populism in America, we are going to look back on the MAGA movement as the biggest scam in American history. And the liberals were right. The MAGA supporters were had. They were. When we look back in history, we will see Trump as a scam artist.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

The MAGA movement as the biggest scam in American history. The liberals were right. We never had reason to expect to hear those words from fanatical Trump supporters. I didn't expect to hear those words last night from fanatical Trump supporters. That's how fast this is moving. We never ever had reason to come close to expecting to hear anything like that until Jeffrey Epstein in effect rose from the grave to separate Donald Trump from those fanatical supporters once again tonight, in Donald Trump's public comments about Jeffrey Epstein, who he used to call a terrific eye, Donald Trump portrayed himself as a victim and only himself. In Donald Trump's mind, he's the only victim in this story. And as usual, he does not have one or two word of sympathy tonight to offer Jeffrey Epstein's real victims. And I'm going to read to you the words of just one of Jeffrey Epstein's 14 year old victims from an interview she gave in 2019 after Jeffrey Epstein was arrested by then the Trump Justice Department during the Trump presidency, which is when the Epstein files were created. I will not mention her name tonight or show the video of the interview that she did so as not to subject her to that pain. She was asked, did Jeffrey Epstein rape you? She said, he raped me, forcefully raped me and knew exactly what he was doing and I don't think he cared. What hurts even more is that if I wasn't afraid to come forward sooner, then maybe he wouldn't have done it to other girls. I feel really guilty. To this day, I feel really guilty. That's a feeling Donald Trump has never had. He has never felt guilty about anything. He's never felt really guilty. He doesn't know what that feeling is. 14 year old girls raped by Jeffrey Epstein suffered and suffered again and suffered again. And Donald Trump cannot bring himself tonight to offer them a word of sympathy as their experiences are flashing back to them in a world that will now be saturated with coverage of Jeffrey Epstein. Those 14 year old girls suffered the unspeakable experience of rape and then they suffered from their own feelings about it afterwards. And many of them have suffered, as they've said, from feeling guilty. One of them, whose suffering never stopped, took her own life just three months ago. Even after receiving funds from a victim compensation fund set up using Jeffrey Epstein's vast wealth. The money was no compensation for the suffering. Imagine what those girls felt when they read Donald Trump in New York magazine saying Jeffrey Epstein is a terrific guy. 14 year old girl whose account of being raped by Jeffrey Epstein, I just read to you, was raped by Jeffrey Epstein in the same year that Donald Trump told New York magazine that Jeffrey Epstein is a terrific guy. And yes, this story is about a stunning turn in American politics. And yes, this story is about a president of the United States. Yes, this story is about a child rapist who died in federal prison while Donald Trump's administration was in control of all federal prisons. But the power of this story to bring down Donald Trump does not come from the Wall Street Journal. It does not come from Rupert Murdoch. The power of this story to bring down Donald Trump does not come from the Trump fanatics who are now turning against Donald Trump tonight. The power of this story comes from Those children, those 14 year old girls who's suffering at the hands of that predator who Donald Trump called a terrific guy, never ends. As we continue our breaking news coverage of this tonight, Senator Sheldon Whitehouse will join us, Congressman Brendan Boyle and former federal prosecutor Harry Lippman. We'll be right back.

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[Uncrustables Host]

It's the Smucker's Uncrustables podcast with your host, Uncrustables. Okay. Today's guest is rough around the edges. Please welcome crust.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Thanks for having me.

[Uncrustables Host]

Today's topic, he's round with soft pillowy bread.

[Crust]

Hey.

[Uncrustables Host]

Filled with delicious PB And J, are.

[Crust]

You talking about yourself?

[Uncrustables Host]

And you can take them anywhere. Why'd you invite and we are out of time.

[Crust]

Are you really cutting me off?

[Uncrustables Host]

Uncrustables are the best part of the sandwich. Sorry, crust.

[Alicia]

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[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Our breaking news coverage continues now with the latest social media post by Donald Trump on this situation. He just posted the Wall Street Journal printed a fake letter supposedly to Epstein. These are not my words, not the way I talk. Also, I don't draw pictures. I told Rupert Murdoch it was a scam, that he shouldn't print this fake story, but he did. And now I'm going to sue him and his third rate newspaper. Joining our discuss discussion now is Harry Lippmann, former U.S. attorney and a deputy Assistant Attorney General. He's also the host of Talking Feds podcast. Harry, one thing I noticed, again, this is Donald Trump's latest post tonight. He does not, like J.D. vance, demand the release of that letter. He very carefully does not ask for the release of the thing that he's calling fake.

[Uncrustables Host]

You're exactly right. And if he brings this defamation suit and he's really drawn the line now, but I think it's going to be hard for him to do. The Wall Street Journal absolutely has the goods, absolutely will defend a defamation suit. This is not going to be like other suits for him. And if he brings it, that notebook is coming out. You know what, Lawrence? I think in any event, that notebook, one way or another, as the pressure continues on, the Journal will come out. We will see that. And remember, among other things, it's got a signature. So for the American people to judge where Trump's name is signed by the woman's crotch, and we're gonna be able to judge for ourselves. Is this a forged signature? Unlikely.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

So, Harry, the panic reaction from Donald Trump, obviously lawyers got involved and they advised him, ask for the release of the grand jury testimony only and ask for what Donald Trump is calling the pertinent grand jury testimony. What else is in what everyone has been calling the Epstein files?

[Uncrustables Host]

The motherlode is in the department. It's a really important point. The grand jury is what actually Denise Comey used to prepare the case against Ghislaine Maxwell. That means the witnesses, all that was done there. It's got nothing to do with, with a 2003 kind of signature that he's now denying. He's really painting himself in the corner and saying this never happened. But the grand jury stuff doesn't have what people are clamoring for. And I doubt even if it comes out and a good court will see no real law enforcement reason that it should. But even if it does, I don't think it'll satisfy people. It is not what everyone is focused on now. It's way too late for that, I think.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Can Ghislaine Maxwell's lawyers rush into court and try to prevent the release of the grand jury testimony? She's an ongoing. She has an appeal going of her criminal case right now.

[Uncrustables Host]

She does. And she only was convicted on five or six counts. So Comey herself kept things separate. That's conventional, totally standard prosecutorial practice. You may need to retry her on that sixth count. So really, there's very strong reason to keep it sequestered. And what do we have on the other side? This strange kind of political. So we'll see what the court does with it. But the important thing for everyone to understand out there, this is not by any means what people are looking to see.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Harry Lippman, thank you very much for joining us tonight. And coming up, we'll have more of our breaking news coverage of this night with Democratic Senator Sheldon Whitehouse. That's next. We are continuing our breaking news coverage of what is turning out to be the worst night of Donald Trump's second term as president. And today, even before the Wall Street Journal reporting about this birthday letter to Jeffrey Epstein in the United States Senate, Democrats were demanding more about the Epstein files, especially as they might involve Emil Beauvais, who is Donald Trump's former criminal defense lawyer, now working in the Trump Justice Department in a high level position who has been nominated by Donald Trump for a federal appeals court position which the Senate will be voting on soon. This is what happened in the Senate Judiciary Committee today about that.

[Senator Sheldon Whitehouse]

After receiving credible information, I sent a letter to Mr. Bovey requesting that he explain his role in reviewing and withholding information about the Epstein files. That's something that should be basic for this committee. Just give us the information. He held a leadership role at the Department of Justice since the beginning of the Trump administration. After months of public statements about, quote, unquote, truckloads of documents in The Epstein files, the DOJ, and the FBI suddenly decided that there's no need to do any kind of disclosures. There's nothing to see here. Look away. Which one is it? The public has a right to know. And a person being nominated for one of the highest courts in our land who clearly played a role in this matter of grave national concern, including child sex trafficking, should actually we should know what he knew and what he did in this matter. I've requested responses to these questions by 9:00am this morning, and we have heard nothing as a committee, and yet we're moving forward.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Joining us now is Senator Sheldon Whitehouse, a member of Senate Judiciary Committee was in the room for that today. Senator, that was about 12 hours ago, what we just saw, the committee hearing room. And that feels like a long ago age of innocence in this story compared to where we are at this hour tonight. In your experience as a former federal prosecutor, ask, what do you make of Donald Trump saying, let's put out some grand jury transcripts that Pam Bondi decides are pertinent?

[Harry Lippmann]

Well, first of all, if you go into a case like this, you could have an enormous case file. You've got an enormous array of evidence. You could have physical evidence. You could have the FBI 302s, you could have papers that you seized. You could have video recordings, audio recordings. And you take a small sliver of what you've got and you take that small sliver into the grand jury to get what you want, which is the indictment, the permission from the grand jury to go forward with your charge against this individual, that there is probable cause. And there's probably another prosecutor waiting outside with a case that they want to bring to the grand jury. So you don't want to waste their time. You're selective about what you bring in. It is exceedingly rare for what the grand jury evidence is in a case to be anything but a small fraction of what the full file is. And then you put in weasel words like pertinent. And all of a sudden there's Pam Bondi able to make all sorts of decisions about what people don't get to see. So don't be misled by that. I think the more interesting news was his threat to sue. Right. If he wants to put this behind him, he's got to file a complaint. More news, the Wall Street Journal gets to answer. More news, they might attach exhibits to their answer. Way more news and people may start to notice that the person who put that book together was Ghislaine Maxwell, who is alive and available to testify about where she got Trump's Happy secrets letter. Again, more news. There is a real whiff of desperation about the Trump White House right now.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

And Senator, there does seem to be a chaotic response going on. You have J.D. vance and Donald Trump disagreeing about one thing. Donald Trump absolutely is not asking anyone to release that letter. J.D. vance is demanding the release of that letter. That letter could be absolutely disastrous to the future of the Trump presidency. But J.D. vance really wants to see it. And Donald Trump, he just would like to see some sanitized grand jury pages.

[Harry Lippmann]

Yeah. Or not see those actually, because a court steps in to say no, or Pam Bondi has shrunk it so much that even the grand jury material is only a sliver of the sliver itself. But I think they're just looking at real significant legal trouble right now. What if Rupert Murdoch attaches to his answer in response to Trump's complaint, not only the actual document, which is highly relevant to the complaint about that document so that everybody can see it, but also an affidavit from Ghislaine Maxwell that says, here's how I came to get it. Here is what my conversation with Trump was when he gave it to me. Here are the things we laughed about and said to each other as he wrote his signature in the crotch area of the woman. I mean, he is inviting a fatal blow from the Wall Street Journal in the way he's proceeding.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Senator, you're also a member of the Senate Finance Committee. That's where the money is. And you've been very good at teaching us to follow the money. Ron Wyden, former chairman of the Senate Finance Committee when the Democrats had control of the Senate, now the top Democrat on the committee went to the Senate floor today to say something that was startling to me. He said that the Treasury Department has records of 4,725 wire transfers of approximately $1.1 billion flowing in and out of just one of Jeffrey Epstein's bank accounts. And Ron Wyden and others would like to see more about those wire transfers. That's an expansion of the definition of interest in the Epstein files. And as you've taught us, that's the part that really usually has a lot of information for us where that money is going and where it's coming from.

[Harry Lippmann]

Yeah. Banks, in order to comply with the anti money laundering laws of the United States, are obliged to file SARS Suspicious activity reports when the flow of money triggers certain considerations that lead to concern about money laundering. And obviously, for years this has been going on with respect to Epstein's funds. The amount is I think a billion and a half dollars. It is very significant funds and Chairman Wyden, our ranking member, Senator Wyden has been extraordinarily diligent and determined about continuing to dig into this from his position. But he can only get limited access and the next step is to get the executive branch to provide a more fulsome description of what is going on out there. There are a lot of payments that look like they went to young women who may very well have been part of his child sex trafficking scheme. So this is a whole other new bucket. It's probably too small a word dumpster of dangerous evidence and a lot more for people to chew on. Again, it's going to keep the Epstein story in this saga and Trump's role in it in the news for a long time.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Senator Sheldon Whitehouse, thank you very much for joining us with your invaluable perspective tonight.

[Harry Lippmann]

Good to be with you.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Thank you. Coming up, House Republicans are now pushing a resolution calling for the release of the Epstein files. That's next with Democratic Congressman Brendan Boyle.

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[Uncrustables Host]

It's the Smuckers Uncrustables podcast with your host Uncrustables. Okay, today's guest is rough around the edges. Please welcome crust.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Thanks for having me.

[Uncrustables Host]

Today's topic is round with soft pillowy bread.

[Crust]

Hey.

[Uncrustables Host]

Filled with delicious PB and J.

[Crust]

Are you talking about yourself?

[Uncrustables Host]

And you can take them anywhere. Why'd you invite and we are out of time.

[Crust]

Are you really cutting me off?

[Uncrustables Host]

Uncrustables are the best part of the sandwich. Sorry crust.

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[Lawrence O'Donnell]

What we thought was going to be the breaking news of the night is that House Republicans introduced a non binding resolution in the House Rules Committee calling for the release of documents related to the investigation of Jeffrey Epstein. The top Democrat on the Rules Committee said this. It's a resolution, a non binding resolution. This is a smokescreen. It is a glorified press release. And if you want to put this on the floor, fine. You know, I think we would all welcome an hour of debate on this topic because the American people want us to be talking about this. Chairing our coverage now is Democratic Congressman Brendan Boyle of Pennsylvania is a member of the ranking member of the House Budget Committee and a member of the House Ways and Means Committee. And I know you're busy on the House floor tonight. Have to get back there, but what is the state of play on this Epstein files resolution as of this hour tonight?

[Crust]

Well, good to be with you, Lawrence. Yeah, we'll be voting in about 15 or 20 minutes or so on this rescissions package. It now appears included in that is this entirely non binding resolution that Republicans have inserted in it. A non binding resolution has absolutely no force of law. So in other words, it's symbolic. It doesn't actually do anything. What Republican leaders have attempted to do is cut off the pressure that they are now under from their own members and their own MAGA base to actually really do something about this. So I hope people don't get sucked in by this completely symbolic, meaningless resolution.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

What is the version of the House really doing something?

[Crust]

Well, you know, my colleagues, a progressive Democrat, Ro Khanna, a conservative or libertarian Republican, Thomas Massie, actually have a real piece of legislation that does have legal teeth that would require the release of all the Epstein files with some obvious redactions for the names of the abuse victims. That is something that would have the force of law and is meaningful and would actually finally, I think, put an end to this matter once and for all and give all of the American people the answers that at this point we all deserve.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

And are they using this resolution tonight to try to head off the one you mentioned there that would have the force of law?

[Crust]

Yeah, exactly right. And part of the delay really over a number of hours now is that Republican after Republican House member was coming under pressure from the MAGA base to break from Trump and actually do something about this that would be real. And they were sick and tired of voting no on Democratic amendments that had actual teeth to them. And so what Mike Johnson and Republican leadership came up with is this really smokescreen kind of giving House Republicans something they could point to, but in the end is actually fooling their own voters who just may not know the difference between a non binding resolution and something that is real.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

What has it been like in the House of Representatives tonight with the Wall Street Journal reporting sweeping through the building in the last couple of hours?

[Crust]

Well, I have to laugh that now the right wing is acting like the Wall Street Journal is somehow some liberal paper. It's owned by Rupert Murdoch, has an unbelievably conservative opinion page and has always had that reputation. Although it has been to its credit intellectually honest and not afraid to post articles and even opinion pieces that have been critical at times of Donald Trump. So I give them credit. I think it's pretty obvious at this point why the Epstein files aren't being released. There's a well documented close relationship between Jeffrey Epstein and Donald Trump. I mean that I guess birthday card that Donald Trump wrote is rather bizarre. I don't think Donald Trump's gonna be hired by Hallmark anytime soon to write birthday cards, that's for sure.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

As we go forward, do you have any sense of whether this resolution will basically quiet most Republicans who are interested in the Epstein files in the House?

[Crust]

You know, I have really been struck that at long last after nine years, this actually seems to be the first break by the MAGA base from Donald Trump. Many of us have been waiting and wondering if this would ever happen. So I think the question now is will that fuehrer online continue in hard right circles in the Alex Jones, Steve Bannon kind of those sorts of spaces. If that continues, then I suspect that there will be further pressure on House Republicans and Senate Republicans to take some real action.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Congressman Brendan Boyle, thank you very much for joining us tonight. I know you have to get back to the House floor. Thank you very much.

[Crust]

Thank you.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

We'll be right back. Donald Trump now has a full blown Jeffrey Epstein crisis overwhelming his White House tonight. And I'm going To repeat the 24 hour prediction I made at the beginning of this hour, 24 hours from now 10pm tomorrow night. There will be much, much more to report on this crisis. And I will be here tomorrow night at that time doing exactly that. Justworks is the HR platform that helps small businesses take care of their teams. Whether you're hiring, automating payroll, expanding globally or tackling compliance, JustWorks offers 24, 7 support, hire and manage international talent without additional platforms and licensing fees. Access premium benefits for your employees like health insurance, 401k and commuter perks, plus with transparent pricing. You know what you're paying for. Go to justworks.com to learn more. They do your human resources right so you can do right by your people. Justworks for your people.