Lawrence: What you're feeling is the banality of cruelty from Trump and the Republican Party

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Lawrence: What you're feeling is the banality of cruelty from Trump and the Republican Party"

Podcast Information:

• Title: The Last Word with Lawrence O’Donnell
• Host/Author: Lawrence O'Donnell, MSNBC
• Description: Drawing upon his experience as a former chief of staff on the Senate Finance Committee and as an Emmy-winning executive producer and writer of ‘The West Wing,’ Lawrence O’Donnell examines the compelling and impactful political stories of the day. Join him every weeknight.
• Episode: Lawrence: What you're feeling is the banality of cruelty from Trump and the Republican Party
• Release Date: July 2, 2025

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1. Introduction to the Banality of Cruelty

Timestamp: 01:03 – 24:14

Lawrence O'Donnell opens the episode by delving into the concept of the "banality of cruelty," a term originally coined by philosopher Hannah Arendt. He criticizes former President Donald Trump and Republican lawmakers for policies he views as inherently cruel yet presented in a mundane, bureaucratic manner.

Key Points:

• Starving Children and AIDS Medication Cuts:

  • O'Donnell condemns Trump and Senator Marco Rubio for celebrating the removal of life-saving AIDS medications in Africa, a program initiated by former President George W. Bush and Dr. Anthony Fauci that saved over 25 million lives in the 21st century.
  • Quote [04:22]: “You have to consider what goes through the mind of a person blithely capable of such grotesque cruelty.”

• Increase in National Debt and Medicaid Cuts:

  • O'Donnell criticizes Trump’s tax cut bill for billionaires, which he claims will increase the national debt by $3.5 trillion and result in the largest cuts to Medicaid, stripping health care from 17 million Americans.
  • Quote [10:47]: “Some people will say, 'Oh, it's unfair to say it's a tax cut for billionaires,' but there was, as you say in Ways and Means, a very specific vote to make sure it is specifically, among other things in the bill, a tax cut for billionaires.”

• Shutdown of USAID:

  • He highlights the abrupt closure of the United States Agency for International Development (USAID) under Trump and Elon Musk’s administration, ending decades of famine relief efforts without covering the legal implications.
  • Quote [15:30]: “We've never once told those ships to turn around until this year. We've never once said that the surplus food supply that the United States produces every year must never be given to the people who need that food or they will die.”

• Expansion of ICE:

  • The podcast discusses the Republican push to make Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) the largest federal law enforcement agency, likening it to an expansion of criminal authority.
  • Quote [18:45]: “A giant hiring expansion in law enforcement now in this America is not going to recruit the best possible law enforcement personnel because those people are already working in law enforcement but it will deliver more cruelty.”

• Alligator Alcatraz Facility:

  • O'Donnell criticizes Trump's new detention facility in Florida, humorously yet horrifyingly named "Alligator Alcatraz," highlighting its cruel implications and racist historical echoes.
  • Quote [20:00]: “There is no one in the Republican Party today who is uncomfortable with that kind of viciously racist historical echo to the games they're playing with the hardworking people that they are taking into custody now because they simply cannot find all those terrible criminals Donald Trump promised to round up.”

• Trump’s Cognitive Function:

  • He argues that Trump’s responses during public appearances reveal a deteriorating cognitive state, comparing it unfavorably to President Joe Biden’s performance.
  • Quote [22:10]: “His mind, as exhibited from that response to that very simple question does not work. And that is a crisis for the United States of America.”

Notable Quotes:

• O'Donnell [01:51]: “Donald Trump simply lies about the Medicaid cuts in the legislation that he is celebrating.”
• O'Donnell [15:15]: “Today, Donald Trump went to Florida to celebrate the newest toy in his cruelty toy box.”

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2. Interview with Congressman Brendan Boyle

Timestamp: 31:24 – 37:24

Lawrence O'Donnell speaks with Brendan Boyle, a Democratic Congressman from Pennsylvania and the top Democrat on the House Budget Committee. The discussion centers on the recent Senate bill that Republicans will soon vote on, highlighting the lack of concessions to Republican senators, except for Senator Lisa Murkowski's special deal for Alaska.

Key Points:

• Impact of Budget Cuts:

  • Boyle emphasizes that 17 million Americans are set to lose healthcare due to Medicaid cuts and other program reductions.
  • Quote [31:53]: “17 million Americans are about to lose their health care. Those who are on Medicaid, the ACA exchanges, as well as some other programs.”

• Republican Self-Interest:

  • He points out that, unlike Senator Murkowski, other Republican senators have not secured any benefits for their states, indicating a lack of concern for constituents.
  • Quote [32:10]: “The reality is many of them are going to lose their seats next November, and deservedly so because of the ramifications of this bill.”

• Tax Bill Consequences:

  • Discussing the tax cuts, Boyle notes that the bill disproportionately benefits the wealthiest 1%, exacerbating the national deficit.
  • Quote [33:59]: “Almost all of which go to the richest 1% of Americans. Let's not forget the nonpartisan officials at CBO have already concluded that those households who make under $55,000 a year will be worse off.”

• Failed Amendments to Limit Tax Cuts:

  • Boyle recounts how Republicans unanimously opposed amendments to cap tax cuts for individuals earning above $10 million, ensuring that billionaires receive continued tax breaks.
  • Quote [36:27]: “If you were just going to fully extend the tax cuts for those who are making under that threshold, the full cost of that would only be $1.6 trillion. Well, of course the cost of this bill is well north of $5 trillion.”

Notable Quotes:

• Boyle [32:49]: “Some of the other cuts, like to Medicaid, were purposely timed to take place after the November 2026 election in an incredibly cynical way.”
• Boyle [37:20]: “Every single Republican voted to make sure, therefore, and be on record that this tax cut they very much want to apply to all incomes over $10 million a year.”

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3. Conversation with Professor Jack Rakoff on Constitutional Failure

Timestamp: 39:10 – 46:11

Lawrence O'Donnell introduces Jack Rakoff, a Pulitzer Prize-winning historian and professor at Stanford University, to discuss the concept of constitutional failure in the Trump era. Rakoff argues that the United States is not merely facing a constitutional crisis but a systemic failure where key institutions like Congress and the Supreme Court are unable to uphold constitutional norms.

Key Points:

• Defining Constitutional Failure:

  • Rakoff differentiates between a constitutional crisis and constitutional failure, asserting that the latter describes a more profound and systemic breakdown where institutions cannot fulfill their responsibilities.
  • Quote [43:55]: “We're actually having systemic failure. And so the other institutions which are responsible for enforcing constitutional norms against the concentrated and potentially arbitrary power of the president are failing in different ways.”

• President Trump's Violation of Constitutional Norms:

  • He criticizes Trump and his administration for violating the Emoluments Clauses and other constitutional principles, transforming the presidency into a personal empire.
  • Quote [40:20]: “With Trump, the imperial presidency and the presidential emporium have converged. This White House is for sale.”

• Institutional Complicity:

  • Rakoff contends that Congress and the Supreme Court have failed to check Trump’s power, either through inaction or insufficient understanding of constitutional duties.
  • Quote [42:10]: “The relevant institutions cannot fulfill their responsibilities. The relevant institutions identified by Professor Rakoff, our Congress and the United States Supreme Court.”

• Impact on Democracy:

  • He emphasizes that this failure undermines the foundational principles of American democracy, where checks and balances are essential to prevent abuse of power.
  • Quote [44:50]: “We live in an era of constitutional failure when the relevant institutions cannot fulfill their responsibilities.”

Notable Quotes:

• Rakoff [40:38]: “With Trump, the imperial presidency and the presidential emporium have converged. This White House is for sale.”
• Rakoff [43:55]: “We live in an era of constitutional failure when the relevant institutions cannot fulfill their responsibilities.”

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Conclusion

In this episode of "The Last Word with Lawrence O’Donnell," Lawrence provides a scathing critique of Donald Trump and the Republican Party, highlighting policies and actions he deems cruel yet mundanely executed. Through thoughtful interviews with Congressman Brendan Boyle and Professor Jack Rakoff, the podcast underscores the systemic failures within American political institutions and the profound impact of Republican-led policies on millions of Americans. The recurring theme is the "banality of cruelty," where harmful decisions are normalized through bureaucratic processes, posing a significant threat to the nation's democratic foundations.

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Note: This summary excludes advertisement segments and non-content sections to focus solely on the substantive discussions of the episode.

Transcript

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

America's beverage companies are investing in America. We're American companies making American products with American workers in America's hometowns.

[Donald Trump]

We're local bottlers and manufacturers operating in.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

All 50 states, employing more than 275,000Americans.

[Donald Trump]

In good paying jobs delivering for the.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Nation because we believe in the promise of America and the people who make it great.

[Donald Trump]

Learn [e-mail] paid for by the American Beverage association.

[Jen Psaki]

Did you know 39% of teen drivers admit to texting while driving. Even scarier, those who text are more likely to speed and run red lights. Shockingly, 94% know it's dangerous, but do it anyway. As a parent, you can't always be in the car, but you can stay connected to their safety. With Greenlight Infinity's driving reports. Monitor their driving habits, see if they're using their phone, speeding and more. These reports provide real data for meaningful conversations about safety. Plus, with weekly updates, you can track their progress over time, help keep your teens safe. Sign up for Greenlight [e-mail] podcast.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Now it's time for the Last Word.

[Brendan Boyle]

With Lawrence O' Donnell.

[Jen Psaki]

Good evening, Lawrence.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Hey, Jen. One of the tonight good features of the way this screen is split is that when you're saying that last little bit, I can't see anything that's on your screen.

[Jen Psaki]

You can't see the portraits.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

I couldn't see any of that. And I'm kind of grateful that I couldn't see any of that because you.

[Jen Psaki]

Need to start your show in a serious way.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Well, it's not just that. It's not just that. But yeah, we're going in. We're in a pretty different direct right away, actually. And I have to get right to it, Jen, because we have so much to cover tonight. And as this situation continues in the House of Representatives, we'll be dipping into that also.

[Brendan Boyle]

Absolutely.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Can't wait to listen and watch. Thanks, Jim.

[Donald Trump]

Thanks, Lawrence.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Thank you. Well, today the vacancy where Donald Trump's mind is supposed to be was on grim display once again. And this is an important day to consider the workings of Donald Trump's mind because this is the day that he and Marco Rubio are celebrating starving children to death in the middle of a famine in Africa. This is the day Donald Trump and Marco Rubio are celebrating the removal of previously paid for life saving AIDS medication for patients in Africa, where a program started by Republican President George w. Bush and Dr. Anthony Fudd has already saved more than 25 million lives just in the 21st century alone. With HIV medication. And we have been delivering that medication for 25 years as a gift because we have the gift and we can afford to give it because we are the richest country in the world. We've been sending that life saving medication to the poorest countries in the world. We without it putting even the slightest dent in the budget of the United States government or increasing the national debt in a measurable way, which on this day, Donald Trump is celebrating his ability to increase the national debt by $3.5 trillion with his tax cut bill for billionaires that passed the Senate this morning by one vote. With the vice president forced to cast the tie breaking vote in the Senate on the biggest cuts to Medicaid in the history of that program, Trump Republican budget cuts that will take health care coverage away from 17 million people, you have to consider what goes through the mind of a person blithely capable of such grotesque cruelty. We do know that Donald Trump simply lies about the Medicaid cuts in the legislation that he is celebrating. That's how Donald Trump deals with that cruelty externally. Donald Trump just lies about it. Donald Trump doesn't want to own that particular cruelty. That's not one he wants to own. Donald Trump doesn't want to pay the political price and he doesn't want the Republicans who vote for it to pay the political price for snatching health care away from 17 million Americans. And Donald Trump can be very confident that there will be absolutely no political price paid by anyone for his decision and Elon Musk's decision and Marco Rubio's decision to close down the United States Agency for International Development, which ended operations today because the American news media simply isn't covering that it's illegal to close down a program like that. As we will discuss later in this hour, the Constitution doesn't allow the president to simply close down an agency and programs created by Congress and by law. But it turns out you can do anything as president if Congress and the Supreme Court will do nothing to stop you. And it is worth considering the inner workings of the presidential mind that the United States Supreme Court has deliberately decided to enable in all of that mind's criminal impulses and in all of that mind's cruel impulses. And there is no better window into that mind than the open window of Donald Trump's moving mouth when he speaks. Every day that Donald Trump speaks publicly is a day of crisis for the American government because there is always a demonstration of how mentally unfit for public office Donald Trump is, how mentally unfit the president is, how mentally incompetent Donald Trump is, how dangerously unhinged Donald Trump's cognitive function is. And so it is with the words of Donald Trump spoken today that we will get that look into the darkness and emptiness and seemingly creeping dementia of Donald Trump's mind. The words you will hear him speak and that I will read to you standing alone, don't come close to being the craziest thing Donald Trump has ever said. But those very same words presented by Donald Trump today as a logical answer to a question by a Fox reporter are the most stunning display of cognitive collapse of a sitting President of the United States that we have ever seen. Very much including Joe Biden's long, awkward speaking pause during last year's televised presidential debate, that freeze that Joe Biden experienced. A debate in which the words Joe Biden actually spoke during that debate, before and after that long, inexplicable pause make perfect sense, except for a couple of words right after the pause. And as soon as Joe Biden dug himself out of whatever that hole was, every single thing Joe Biden said during that debate was smarter and better and more presidential and thoroughly sane compared to anything that Donald Trump said that night. And while answering questions by reporters or anyone else during his presidency. Joe Biden never had the kind of dementia flash that Donald Trump gave us today, which will go completely unnoticed by the Washington news media that wants to pretend that there was something wrong with Joe Biden's cognitive function while he was standing beside the most cognitively deficient presidential candidate in history, Donald Trump. If Joe Biden were president tonight, the American people would not be embarked on what is a worldwide campaign of cruelty in their name by the Trump government. Cruelty that includes cruelty now in the United States, cruelty to immigrants in the United States, and now cruelty to Donald Trump's own voters who believed him as a candidate when he said he would not cut the their Medicaid. There are Trump voting areas of this country where government funded health care supports most of the people living in those areas. Medicaid, Medicare, the Affordable Care act are providing health care to most people in several areas of this country, including some parts of rural Trump country. And Medicaid pays for 40% of the nursing home care in this country. Donald Trump said cut it. And every Republican in the Senate and every Republican in the House who were needed to deliver those cuts said, okay, it's Donald Trump's idea and that's good enough for them. That's an example of Hannah Arendt's famous phrase, the banality of evil. Cruelty is easy to do when you just don't think about it. Cruelty is easy to do when you just think the decisions are up to someone else. Cruelty is easy to do when you think you're just doing job. That's how you arrive at the banality of evil, the banality of cruelty. If you turn off the sound when evil is being done, it looks exactly the same as the way it looks when good things are being done, when lives are being saved, when lives are being changed for the better. Governing in this country through the budget reconciliation process in Congress that we have been watching on television since the 1980s when cameras were finally allowed in. Congress always looks the same. There is always the so called votorama in the Senate performed by the political party in the Senate that is on the losing side of the budget reconciliation process. There is no way for the powerless minority to stop the majority party during the budget reconciliation process, as has been proven when President Clinton's party was in power in Congress, when President George W. Bush's party was in power in Congress, when President Barack Obama's party was in power in Congress. And it is now being proven once again the minority has no power when the majority party is united, as the Democrats were when they created what is now called Obamacare. Republicans opposed Obamacare in the same way the Democrats are now opposing the Republicans. Snatching health care away from people. And it looks the same. It looks the same on tv. It's men in neckties disagreeing, women in pantsuits and skirts disagreeing. It is the banality of Congress at work. And what you're always left wondering during these difficult to watch spectacles is why don't they care? Why don't they care about the 15% of the population that was being denied health care coverage in America before Obamacare was passed? Republicans argued in every way they could about what they found wrong with the Affordable Care act as legislation. And it was reasonable to share some of those concerns. But they never once explained why they didn't care, why they didn't care about the people who didn't have health insurance and couldn't get it and couldn't afford it and would never be able to afford it without government assistance. And if you say government spending has to be cut and Medicare is the first place you go to cut spending while you're massively increasing defense spending, why don't you care? Why don't they ever tell us why they don't care? Mitch McConnell told us. Mitch McConnell was quoted as telling his Republican colleagues in a private Senate lunch they'll get over it, meaning Mitch McConnell's Kentucky constituents, the poor ones, and the constituents of every Republican senator, would get over their health care away. I knew Mitch McConnell when I was working in the Senate and he was voting against Bill Clinton's health care reform bill, which died on the Senate floor because of the opposition of Mitch McConnell and every Republican. And Mitch McConnell never said then why he doesn't care. The American news media, for the most part, doesn't care at all about today being the official shutdown of usaid. Most of the American news media has not covered Elon Musk's great accomplishment in government in any detail at all. Elon Musk, with Donald Trump's approval, shutting down USAID for the first time in American history. We have, at many points in Our history, since 1847, sent famine relief supplies around the world, and we have never once told those ships to turn around until this year. We have never once said that the surplus food supply that the United States produces every year, much more food than the United States could ever consume or sell, must never be given to the people who need that food or they will die. We've never said that before. That's what the United States of America did this year. But the big news story of today is that Donald Trump and Elon Musk are fighting again. The same two deranged rich guys who decided that people should starve to death is not a story. But because they are fighting again, the fight is a story. And that's where the American news media is going to go. That's where they're going to go tonight. Bill Gates, who has done everything he can, beginning back when he was the richest person in the world, to try to use his wealth for good around the world, especially in Africa, sees Elon Musk now as, quote, the world's richest man killing the world's poorest children. Most people in this country have no idea that Bill Gates ever said that about Elon Musk. Most people in this country have no idea that Donald Trump and Elon Musk teamed up to deliver deadly cruelty to those people before. Elon Musk and Donald Trump today are disagreeing on exactly how much and what kind of cruelty should be visited upon the American people. Actually, that's not even what they're disagreeing about. That's not what they're fighting about. Elon Musk actually wants more cruelty. Elon Musk would like to abolish Medicaid. Elon Musk wants to cut all government spending. That isn't for him. Elon Musk's complaint about Donald Trump's budget bill is that it wildly increases the national debt, something Elon Musk has never cared about for one second before and something Donald Trump has been promising to do all along. Elon Musk cannot possibly claim to be so stupid that he's the last person in America to learn that every Republican tax cut bill always wildly increases the national deficit, the national debt. There are many ways to think about what's happening in the country tonight. And there are many ways to think about what the Integration and Customs Enforcement will do when this Congress delivers the funds in this bill to make US ICE the single biggest federal law enforcement force. But what unifies everything that's happening tonight is the cruelty, the banality of cruelty. ICE is now going to be the biggest expansion team in law enforcement history. Who do you think is sitting out there now in America available and eager to go to work as ICE agents with guns and army like costumes to go to war? On the streets of Los Angeles, a place that could not be more peaceful, I saw the wasted military troops standing outside the federal building in Westwood in Los Angeles on a typical beautiful summer weekend where that huge parking lot used to be used for those buses that would come there to pick up kids to take them to camp in Northern California, around California, deliver kids home from camp after two weeks or a month. Many, many, many emotional scenes took place in those parking lots on those summer Saturdays and Sundays every summer. But not this summer. Empty, totally empty parking lots being protected by all those camping children, I guess by those heavily armed troops in the driveway of the completely peaceful campus of the most peaceful federal building in America in Los Angeles, a few steps away from the UCLA campus. Totally wasted budget item the Republicans claim to want to save, save money for Americans in their budget. But think about all these new ICE agents they're going to find now. Most American police officers, like my father when he was a police officer, are good at their jobs and they do good work. But we all know that we already have enough bad police work in America. We already have enough bad and criminal police officers in America and they never stop doing bad things. They get away with a lot of those bad things. But when someone has a cell phone handy with a cell phone camera, they sometimes get caught and they sometimes pay the price for the bad things that they decide to do with the authority granted to them by their badges. A giant hiring expansion in law enforcement now in this America is not going to recruit the best possible law enforcement personnel because those people are already working in law enforcement but it will deliver more cruelty. And that is the point. Today, Donald Trump went to Florida to celebrate the newest toy in his cruelty toy box. Donald Trump added to the national debt by spending federal money to create an instantly assembled prison on an abandoned airstrip in the Florida Everglades. Surrounded by the threatening wildlife of the Everglades. Donald Trump simply loves the idea of someone trying to escape that facility and being attacked and ripped apart by alligators. Donald Trump thinks that's funny. Countless Republicans on Fox, the Fox cruelty channel think that that is funny. And they've been laughing about it. Especially the Attorney General of Florida who's very proud of the idea, laughing about it, laughing about the possibility of alligators attacking and killing anyone who tries to get away from the new Trump prison. None of this cruelty would be happening if Donald Trump were not president. This all comes directly from Donald Trump's mind. Florida Republicans are selling merchandise with Donald Trump's nickname for the facility, Alligator Alcatraz. The south has a very ugly history of joking about alligators catching up with black people who might be trying to escape one form of Southern cruelty or another. But there is no one in the Republican Party today who is uncomfortable with that kind of viciously racist historical echo to the games they're playing with the hard working people that they are taking into custody now because they simply cannot find all those terrible criminals Donald Trump promised to round up. Donald Trump's so called border czar had no answer about how a 75 year old Cuban man who has been in the United States of America for 60 years was taken into ICE custody at age 75 where he died. I'm unaware of that.

[Donald Trump]

I'm not aware of that.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

I mean, people die in ICE custody, people die in county jails, people die in state prison. The banality of cruelty. People die. I'm not aware of that. People die. A 75 year old man from Cuba who has been here for 60 years, who never hurt anyone, is not who Donald Trump promised to snatch and deport. And now he's dead. Donald Trump doesn't care. Marco Rubio, whose parents also came from Cuba around the same time, doesn't care. No elected Republican anywhere in this country cares that that man is dead tonight because of Donald Trump. What is the basis of this devotion to Donald Trump by elected Republicans in Congress? Who is this person who has taken complete control of those elected Republicans? How does he do it? How brilliant must he be to simply take over the entire Republican Party and convince virtually all of the Congressional Republicans, House and Senate to do it? His way all the time. It's not the nobility of Donald Trump's character. That's the kind of quality Nelson Mandela had as a leader. And no Republican would claim that Donald Trump has any of that. If it is the power of his thinking, then Donald Trump is smarter than every Republican he deals with. But what if there's actually nothing there? What if Donald Trump's mind is empty and dysfunctional? What does that make the Republicans who agree with him and vote for everything he wants? How craven does that make them? How deeply in violation of their oaths to defend and protect the Constitution of the United States are they all? Think about the emptiness of the minds of the Republican senators and Republican members of the House of Representatives when you listen and watch the utter emptiness of Donald Trump when he is asked today about his new theater of cruelty in Florida, the place that Republicans gleefully call Alligator Alcatraz. Watch this stunning exhibition of the emptiness and total dysfunction of Donald Trump's mind that is worse than anything ever seen in the mind of any president of any country. It was a simple question. It was the last question. It was the typical gift from a Fox reporter to bring Donald Trump back from his ramblings about groceries and other incomprehensible points that he was making. And giving Donald Trump the gift of one more chance to talk about his newest exhibition of cruelty for which the Republican Party is now selling merchandise. Alligator Alcatraz T shirts. Fox gave Donald Trump another chance to sell more alligator Alcatraz T shirts. Just exactly what he went to Florida to do, exactly why he was there. It was as if the Fox reporter was on orders to make sure that that last question goes right to the point of why Donald Trump is sitting there now. Watch what Donald Trump does with that incredible gift from Fox, what he does with that chance. Watch what he does with the question that he wanted to get. A simple question. How long will these temporary structures thrown on a Runway be here? How long will the detainees be be here? Simple couldn't be simpler. Watch Donald Trump's repeated inability to understand that simple question.

[Donald Trump]

How about one more question? Okay. Please, in the back.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Dana Marie McNichol, Fox News Channel. Mr. President, is there an expected time frame that detainees will spend here? Days, weeks, months? And does that have anything to do with the immigration judges you just spoke about being trained and staffed here?

[Donald Trump]

When you say, what was the first part of your question?

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Is there a specific time frame you expect the detainees to spend here? Days, weeks, months? In Florida? Yes, here at Alligator office, I'm going to spend a lot.

[Donald Trump]

Look, this is my home state. I love it. I love your government. I love all the people around. These are all friends of mine. They know them very well. I mean, I'm not surprised that they do so well. They're great people. Ron has been a friend of mine for a long time. I feel very comfortable in the state. I'll spend a lot of time here.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

That's right. Donald Trump thought the question was, how much time are you going to spend in Florida? That's what a lot of 79 year old guys get when they move to Florida. How much time are you going to spend in Florida? But the question was, is there an expected time frame that detainees will spend here? Days, weeks, months? The answer, the rest of the answer gets even worse. I stopped it there to spare you hearing the actual sound of the banality of Donald Trump's creeping dementia and his cruelty. I'm going to read to you what he actually said. Here is what he continued to say in the wrong answer to that question. How long will the detainees be here? He said, I'll spend a lot of time here. I want to, you know, for four years I've got to be in Washington and I'm okay with it because I love the White House. I even fixed up the little Oval Office. I made it. It's like a diamond. It's beautiful. It's so beautiful. It wasn't maintained properly, I will tell you that. But even when it wasn't, it was still the Oval Office. So it meant a lot. But I'll spend as much time as I can here. You know, my vacation is generally here because it's convenient. I live in Palm beach, it's my home and I have a very nice little place, nice little cottage to stay at. Right. But we have a lot of fun and I'm a big contributor to Florida, you know, pay a lot of tax. Let me just pause here for a second to note that the state of Florida has zero state income tax, unlike the state of New York, which he left. So, no, he doesn't pay a lot of tax in Florida. Donald Trump kept talking. I'm a big contributor to Florida. You know, I pay a lot of tax and a lot of people moved from New York and I don't know what New York is going to do. A lot of people moved to Florida from New York and it was for a lot of reasons, but one of them was taxes. The taxes are so high in New York, they're leaving. I don't know what New York is going to do about that. Because some of the biggest wealthiest people and some of the people that pay the most taxes of any people anywhere in the world for that matter, they're moving to Florida and other places. So we're going to have to help some of these states out, I think. But thank you very much. I'll be here as much as I can. Very nice question. He's not there. There's a character named Donald Trump with a red hat and orange makeup who shows up at these events and words come out of his mouth, but he's not there. His mind, as exhibited from that response to that very simple question does not work. And that is a crisis for the United States of America. Every day. Children are going to go hungry in this country now because Donald Trump, whose mind doesn't work, has decided to cut food assistance to poor children. Mothers are going to lose their Medicaid coverage while they're on the delivery tables in hospitals because Republican senators last night voted to specifically make sure they could do exactly that. An amendment offered by Democrats to prevent Medicaid from being taken away from women while they're on the delivery table in a hospital having a baby. And Republicans voted to make sure that they absolutely could do that to any woman on Medicaid, to make sure they could take Medicaid away from any mother at any time before childbirth, during childbirth or immediately after childbirth and take it away from that baby who was just born. And so the legislative cruelty fest continues now tonight in the House of Representatives. And it looks the same. It looks exactly the same as it looks when Congress is doing something good. And because it looks the same, many Americans will never see through the banality of cruelty that is on display in the House of Representatives tonight. And that is what you're feeling. We are living with the banality of cruelty and we are feeling it. That is the pain. We'll be right back. With a home equity investment from HomeTap, you get access to your home equity in cash without monthly payments to use for whatever you'd like, from paying off debt to making renovations or handling emergency expenses. Receive your funds in just a few weeks, start pursuing your financial goals and start getting more out of life. See if you pre qualify for an [e-mail] Subject to eligibility, terms and conditions apply.

[Jen Psaki]

That's hometap.com did you know 39% of teen drivers admit to texting while driving. Even scarier, those who text are more likely to speed and run red lights. Shockingly, 94% know it's dangerous, but do it anyway. As a parent. You can't always be in the car, but you can stay connected to their safety with Greenlight Infinity's driving reports. Monitor their driving habits, see if they're using their phone, speeding and more. These reports provide real data for meaningful conversations about safety. Plus, with weekly updates, you can track their progress over time. Help keep your teens safe. Sign up for Greenlight [e-mail] podcast We All Belong outside. We're drawn to nature. Whether it's the recorded sounds of the ocean we doze off to or or the succulents that adorn our homes, nature makes all of our lives, well, better. Despite all this, we often go about our busy lives removed from it, but the outdoors is closer than we realize. With alltrails, you can discover trails nearby and explore confidently with offline maps and on trail navigation. Download the free app today.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Leading off our discussion is Democratic Congressman Brendan Boyle of Pennsylvania. He is the top Democrat on the House Budget Committee and a member of the powerful House Ways and Means Committee. Congressman Boyle, I'm wondering what the House Republicans are thinking now that Republican Senator Lisa Murkowski got a special deal in the Senate bill for Alaska and none of them have gotten anything for their constituents in the Senate bill which they are now going to have to vote on.

[Brendan Boyle]

Well, it's great to be with you this evening. I wish that the subject matter wasn't so dark, but the fact still remains that 17 million Americans are about to lose their health care. Those who are on Medicaid, the ACA exchanges, as well as some other programs. Even beyond that, especially snat. You did see one Republican senator attempt to mitigate the damage Lisa Murkowski trust for her state, though my question to her would be if she thought the bill was so bad for folks in her state, what about the rest of us who live in the 49 other states? So far, I haven't seen one Republican member of the House attempt to use their leverage in order to get some sort of special carve out for their own districts or states. The reality is many of them are going to lose their seats next November, and deservedly so because of the ramifications of this bill.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Congressman, will voters know by next November what has happened in their congressional districts because of this bill?

[Brendan Boyle]

Yes and no. I mean, some of the ramifications will be right away. For example, one of the changes that will take place and this probably the news of this probably hasn't gotten out there as much as it should. The sequestration of Medicare takes effect this January. That's a 4% cut, and that's a direct cut to providers. So we will all feel that even those of us who may not be on Medicare. Some of the other cuts, like to Medicaid, were purposely timed to take place after the November 2026 election in an incredibly cynical way, while some other nutrition assistance type programs see those cuts happen sooner. So as you can see, it's a real mix of yes and no. Some cuts start right away, some are phased in a little bit later.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

And on the tax side of it, what do you see of the effects of this tax bill long term?

[Brendan Boyle]

Yeah, it's incredible. One commentator and analyst today pegged the whole size of the increase to deficit and debt as five plus trillion dollars. That is a massive amount of money that we will all be paying for, make no mistake about it, through higher mortgage rates, higher auto loan rates and other sorts of higher loan rates. I think one other way in which the American people will be paying for it is we do know that years from now we're going to have to be coming back to find more revenue in order to pay for these massive tax cuts, almost all of which go to the richest 1% of Americans. Let's not forget the nonpartisan officials at CBO have already concluded that those households who make under $55,000 a year will be worse off, will be poorer as a result of this bill becoming law.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Congressman, there was a really striking amendment that Senator John Ossoff brought up yesterday in the Senate. And it was simply to say, okay, on the tax cut side of it, the tax cut simply does not apply to incomes above $10 million. So above 10 million only. And that would simply mean that everyone making above $10 million would continue to live with the tax rate that they're paying right now. That's all it would mean. That's all it was going to mean. And every single Republican voted against that. Every single Republican voted to make sure, therefore, and be on record that this tax cut they very much want to apply to all incomes over $10 million a year and the and the multibillion dollar incomes that they are protecting.

[Brendan Boyle]

That's exactly right. And I'll go one step further on the Ways and Means Committee. When we had our 18 hour markup a few weeks ago, we offered an amendment that would fully extend the tax cuts for everyone making under $1 billion a year. So literally the only thing that was at issue was whether or not tax cuts would go to those making $1 billion a year or more. Every single Democrat voted yes on that amendment to fully extend the tax cuts except for billionaires. Every single Republican voted no. And that's where the bulk of the cost is in this bill, extending these tax cuts for the hyper wealthy.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

And I just want you to double underline that. Some people will say, oh, it's unfair to say it's a tax cut for billionaires because you know, it actually applies across all of the tax brackets. But there was, as you say in Ways and Means, a very specific vote to make sure it is specifically, among other things in the bill, a tax cut for billionaires.

[Brendan Boyle]

That's right. And again, CBO actually broke this out not too long ago. If you were just going to fully extend the tax cuts for those who are making under that threshold, the full cost of that would only be $1.6 trillion. Well, of course the cost of this bill is well north of $5 trillion. That's because of all of the other goodies, particularly the tax cuts for the wealthiest 1/10 of 1%.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Congressman Brendan Boyle, thank you very much for joining us again tonight.

[Brendan Boyle]

Thank you, thank you.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

And coming up, it's not a constitutional crisis, it's worse than that, says Pulitzer Prize winning historian Jack Rakoff, who will join us next.

[Jen Psaki]

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[Lawrence O'Donnell]

It's not just a Constitutional crisis. It's a constitutional failure. So says our next guest, Stanford history professor Jack Rakoff. Professor Rakoff writes, quote, re electing an individual culpable for January 6, who has twice made a mockery of the presidential oath of office, is itself a constitutional crisis. The term no longer usefully describes our collapsing system. Instead, we live in an era of constitutional failure when the relevant institutions cannot fulfill their responsibilities. The relevant institutions ident by Professor Rakoff, our Congress and the United States Supreme Court. With a Congress controlled by Republicans. Professor Rakoff writes, servile loyalty to the president outweighs fidelity to constitutional norms. Professor Rakoff faults the Supreme Court for, quote, stunning inadequacy of the majority's understanding of constitutional history and core concepts of American constitutionalism. Professor Rakoff wrote that article last week before Justice Sonia Sotomayor read her dissent aloud at the Supreme Court after the six Republican justices on the court allowed Donald Trump's executive order, a ban on birthright citizenship, to become law, at least temporarily, to be enforced as law temporarily in some states. Justice Sotomayor said from the bench while reading her dissent, quote, no right is safe in the new legal regime the court creates. Professor Jack Rakoff will join us after this break. In his article titled It's Not Just a Constitutional Crisis in the Trump Era, It's Constitutional Failure, Professor Jack Rakoff writes, all previous presidents had scrupulously adhered to the emoluments clauses, which embodied the fundamental principle that presidents should neither seek nor hold office for private gain. The honor of holding the highest office in the land should displace every other ambition. But this president and his family have more material, even sordid aims to pursue. With Trump, the imperial presidency and the presidential emporium have converged. This White House is for sale, whether through gifts from wealthy entrepreneurs, the manipulation of tariffs, and perhaps worst of all, the family's active involvement in crypto meme speculations. And joining us now is Jack Rakoff, professor of history, American Studies and Political Science at Stanford University. He won the Pulitzer Prize in history for his book Original Politics and the Ideas in the Making of the Constitution. Professor Rakoff, it's as if on cue that the United States Senate last night are all the Republicans voted against a Democratic amendment to the bill that would prohibit the Defense Department to spend money on the plane that Donald Trump has accepted from Qatar to convert that into a plane for Donald Trump. And of course, all Republicans did what your article kind of predicted they would, which is instead of standing up for the Constitution and the concept of emoluments they simply said, of course, Donald Trump can do whatever he wants.

[Donald Trump]

Right, Morris? It's true that in my view, the Constitution has any of a number of clauses which, if applied either as the framers intended or just from a plain reading of the text, would offer us some fairly effective protections against Trumpian malpractice. And I think the problem coming, originating in Trump's first administration and now being squared or doubled or tripled or whatever in the second administration, is that the failure to set adequate precedents or to enforce the rules initially has simply opened the gate so that there's no longer any pretense that Congress, and I think in many ways, the Supreme Court, will be willing to enforce what seem to be almost the black letter commands of the Constitution itself. The mobbing squad was kind of a funny place to begin my article, but in a certain sense, because it provides such an obvious way to think about the, you know, the intense and exaggerated nature, extent of Trump corruption, it seemed as good a place to start as any, even though it's not really the most significant issue.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Yeah. And you couldn't possibly have done it with any other president. Begin the story that way. But the failure of the Constitution. Please distinguish for us what you see as the distinction between a constitutional crisis and constitutional failure.

[Donald Trump]

I think when we speak of a crisis, we imagine a particular kind of scenario because lawyers dominate our constitutional conversations. The supreme example of a crisis would involve the President openly defying and ignoring some fairly potent ruling from the Supreme Court. It seems to me that part, because I'm really a historian of politics, that it's equally important to look at the other institutions. Once you start with Trump, you know, as, you know, as you quoted from my article previously, the oath of office, which is specially written for the President himself, has absolutely no mean meaning to Trump. He has no sense of responsibility. Responsibility was actually one of the core words that the framers of the Constitution valued. So, you know, it's kind of initial premise that you can't expect Trump to conform to constitutional norms, standards, or rules of behavior. So the real problem then becomes what are the other institutions going to do or what are they not doing that they should be doing? And. And once you start to think of those terms, it's not just the image of a crisis, which we think of as having kind of an episodic character. You might say that the publication of the Nixon tapes precipitated the conclusion of the Watergate crisis. That's a single event, the argument I'm trying to make, and it's a disturbing argument to think about is we're actually having systemic failure. And so the other institutions which are responsible for enforcing constitutional norms against the concentrated and potentially arbitrary power of the president are failing in different ways. And we need different explanations of why they're failing. But the idea that the system as a whole is failing, and even some of my friends say he's on the verge of collapse, it's a serious concern that I find myself thinking about when I get up in the morning and when I go to bed in the evening. So I think failure is a more robust concept here.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Yeah, it completely made sense to me as the frame and the right frame to be using, and that's why you're here. Professor Jack Rakoff, thank you very much. Thank you very much for joining us tonight.

[Donald Trump]

Happy to join you.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Thank you. We'll be right back. Constitutional failure. Professor Jack Rakoff gets tonight's last word.

[Jen Psaki]

Did you know that parents rank financial literacy as the number one most difficult life skill to teach? Meet Greenlight, the debit card and money app for families. With Greenlight, you can set up chores, automate allowance and keep an eye on your kids spending with real time notifications. Kids learn to earn, save and spend wisely. And parents can rest easy knowing their kids are learning about money with guardrails in place. Sign up for Greenlight [e-mail] podcast.