Lawrence: What's happening in Los Angeles is a hurricane without rain. It is a hurricane with fire.

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Last Word with Lawrence O’Donnell Episode: Lawrence: What's happening in Los Angeles is a hurricane without rain. It is a hurricane with fire. Release Date: January 10, 2025

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Introduction

In this gripping episode of The Last Word with Lawrence O’Donnell, host Lawrence O'Donnell delves deep into the catastrophic wildfires ravaging Los Angeles, drawing a compelling parallel between these fires and hurricanes. The episode not only examines the natural and human factors contributing to the disaster but also touches upon significant national news, including the impending sentencing of Donald Trump. Through insightful analysis, expert interviews, and on-the-ground reporting, O’Donnell provides listeners with a comprehensive understanding of the unfolding crises.

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Los Angeles Wildfires: A Hurricane Without Rain

Lawrence's Analysis (04:31 - 15:05)

Lawrence O'Donnell opens the discussion by likening the devastating fires in Los Angeles to a hurricane devoid of rain, emphasizing the unparalleled destructive power of the Santa Ana winds. He explains:

"Wind is the single most destructive force that exists in our natural elements. The destructive force of a hurricane is in the wind, not the rain." ([04:31])

O'Donnell details how the Santa Ana winds, characterized by high speeds and dry conditions, have turned these fires into uncontrollable infernos, making firefighting efforts extraordinarily challenging. He highlights the historical context and the unique vulnerabilities of Los Angeles to such natural disasters.

Key Points:

• Santa Ana Winds: High-speed, dry winds originating from desert areas east of Los Angeles, exacerbating fire conditions.
• Fire Department Challenges: Limited resources and delayed responses due to inaccessible wildfire origins, likened to firefighting efforts during the tragic events of 9/11.
• Human Impact: Loss of homes, deep trauma among residents, and the constant threat facing both homeowners and those temporarily sheltered.

Expert Insights:

Cal Fire Battalion Chief Brent Pasqua (15:06 - 18:45)

Cal Fire Battalion Chief Brent Pasqua provides an on-the-ground perspective of the firefighting efforts:

"We fought these Santa Ana wind-driven fires before, but the last couple of days were nothing like we've seen before. Gusts up to 100 miles per hour." ([16:04])

He underscores the necessity of favorable wind conditions for effective firefighting and laments the ongoing challenges despite increased efforts and resources.

Notable Quote: "There's nothing that we can do on 9/11. And that is a human truth that some people refuse to learn... It is a hurricane without the rain, it is a hurricane with fire." ([04:31])

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On-the-Ground Reporting

KNBC Reporter Robert Kovacic (30:26 - 35:00)

Robert Kovacic delivers a harrowing account from the Pacific Palisades, illustrating the near-total devastation:

"There's really nothing left to burn here in the Palisades... Sunset Boulevard being impacted. There's basically nothing left in this neighborhood." ([30:53])

He discusses the logistical nightmares faced by firefighters, including inaccessible areas and ongoing threats from erratic wind patterns.

Key Points:

• Evacuation Zones: Strict protocols in place, restricting access to affected areas to prevent looting and further chaos.
• Resource Shortages: Firefighters often operate with insufficient water supply, relying on tanker trucks and aerial support from neighboring states and even Canada.
• Future Threats: Concerns about the wind picking up again, potentially reigniting fires and endangering more neighborhoods.

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National News: Donald Trump's Sentencing

Legal Developments (25:23 - 39:01)

Shifting focus, the episode covers the Supreme Court's rejection of Donald Trump's attempt to block his sentencing:

"The Supreme Court rejected Donald Trump's effort to block his sentencing with Chief Justice John Roberts and Justice Amy Coney Barrett voting with the other Democratic-appointed judges." ([25:23])

Andrew Weissman, Legal Analyst (36:21 - 39:01)

Weissman provides expert commentary on the implications of the Supreme Court's decision:

"This is a monumental moment in our history... the court is saying, we're going to treat you like any other defendant." ([27:07])

He critiques the justices' impartiality and highlights the political ramifications, particularly focusing on Justices Thomas and Alito's roles and perceived biases.

Notable Quote: "Donald Trump said essentially I'm special. I don't want to be sentenced. I want to immediately take an appeal... And so it's right that the Supreme Court said, no, that's not the way it works." ([27:07])

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Human Stories and Integrity

Jimmy Carter's Legacy (41:05 - 43:51)

In a poignant segment, O'Donnell reflects on President Jimmy Carter's enduring legacy of integrity and craftsmanship. He narrates a touching account of Carter's hands-on approach to life post-presidency, symbolizing genuine decency in a world where such traits are increasingly rare.

Key Points:

• Personal Stories: Carter’s grandson shares intimate memories, highlighting Carter’s commitment to making cradles for his grandchildren.
• Symbolism of Integrity: The craftsmanship reflects Carter's meticulousness, care, and unwavering integrity, serving as an inspirational example for listeners.

Notable Quote: "A man of the sort of common decency that isn't so common anymore did more good after his presidency than any president in history." ([42:06])

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Conclusion

Lawrence O'Donnell's episode masterfully intertwines the immediate crisis of the Los Angeles wildfires with significant national legal developments, all while weaving in personal narratives that underscore the human spirit's resilience. Through expert interviews, detailed analysis, and heartfelt storytelling, listeners gain a multifaceted understanding of both natural disasters and the nation's political landscape.

Notable Quotes Recap

• Lawrence O'Donnell: "Wind is the single most destructive force that exists in our natural elements. The destructive force of a hurricane is in the wind, not the rain." ([04:31])
• Cal Fire Battalion Chief Brent Pasqua: "We fought these Santa Ana wind-driven fires before, but the last couple of days were nothing like we've seen before. Gusts up to 100 miles per hour." ([16:04])
• Robert Kovacic: "There's really nothing left to burn here in the Palisades... Sunset Boulevard being impacted. There's basically nothing left in this neighborhood." ([30:53])
• Andrew Weissman: "This is a monumental moment in our history... the court is saying, we're going to treat you like any other defendant." ([27:07])
• Lawrence O'Donnell on Jimmy Carter: "A man of the sort of common decency that isn't so common anymore did more good after his presidency than any president in history." ([42:06])

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This episode serves as a powerful reminder of the forces of nature's unpredictability and the enduring importance of personal integrity amidst turmoil. Whether confronting wildfires or navigating the complexities of the legal system, O'Donnell emphasizes resilience, preparedness, and the human capacity to persevere.

Transcript

[Amon Mohadin]

Stay connected with the MSNBC app bringing you breaking news and analysis anytime, anywhere.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Let's get up to speed.

[Alex Wagner]

We've got some breaking news right now.

[Amon Mohadin]

Watch your favorite shows live.

[Alex Wagner]

There's a lot happening here in Washington as Donald Trump's second term starts to take shape.

[Amon Mohadin]

Read live blogs and in depth essays and listen to coverage as it unfolds. Go beyond the what to understand the why. Download the app [e-mail] app.

[Brent Pasqua]

Now it's time for the Last Word with Lawrence O'Donnell. Good evening, Lawrence. I always enjoy our handoffs, but I think they're especially important these days. Checking in with all of our friends who are in the area. And I know you especially have a lot of ties to the city of Los Angeles.

[Alex Wagner]

Yeah, I mean, here I am in Alex in our New York studio with my house in Los Angeles, 2,500 miles away. And so it's still standing. I mentioned that last night it could be lost. It could be lost tonight, could be lost tomorrow night. Saturday is the first time apparently the wind is going to let us relax at all. So the good news, bad news is I got reports. For most of the last 24 hours, fire trucks have been on my street. And at first I thought, oh great, they're on my street. My house is safe. But it means they need to be on my street. That's the bad news. It's much better news that the fire trucks are far away from your street because that means it isn't really threatening. Threatening, but that's the way it is for everyone in Los Angeles. They are either deeply worried about their own house or everyone knows, people who are now homeless. I mean, just walking out here to the studio, it finally occurred to me because, you know, we're just inundated with incoming and outgoing texts and calls. And it just crossed my mind, oh, I don't want to say his name, but I have to check with my dentist because I know he lives in Pacific Palisades. And so I didn't even ask, you know, is he okay? I mean, my text was just, I'm so sorry for what you and your family have been going through. And of course it came back that his house burned down yesterday. I just, you just know now, you know, there isn't really any suspense anymore if you really know where people live, you know, just how much trouble they're in at this point. And so it's just an endless flow of this kind of information that we're all sharing. Whenever anyone gets near any of the areas and snaps a Picture. We all share it with each other. You know, this is what your street looks like today. That's the most valuable thing anyone can send you, is a picture, you know, of your street. And so it's a real human agony. And it is kind of. It's something that Californians understand, everyone in Los Angeles understands. And the challenge is trying to make it understood beyond the people who live through it.

[Brent Pasqua]

Well, but that's why I think people like you and Katie and Jacob who have these direct ties to the state. It's so critical, so essential to hear even just the tenor of your voice when you talk about it. It's hugely impactful, and it's really important for all of us as we kind of go through this experience and hopefully help each other through in whatever way we can.

[Alex Wagner]

Yeah. And, Alex, look, the last thing I deserve is anyone's sympathy about what's gonna happen in my house. I get to watch this from the comfort of my second home. Okay? So there's no real danger for me. Someone went into my house. A family member went to my house the other day, grabbed the few things I could think of off the top of my head that would be nice to have. But people are losing every single thing. There are people who weren't home. There are people who were working out town whose houses burned down, and no one walked through that door to grab anything. And every single thing in those homes is lost and lost forever. And these are people with one home, many of them very modest homes. Apartments. People in apartments, modest apartments. They're losing those. And so there's an ongoing life challenge and strategy for the people who come out of this, you know, completely healthy, uninjured, but with nothing.

[Brent Pasqua]

Yeah, Deep trauma. A lot of trauma. We're at the beginning of it.

[Alex Wagner]

We are. Thank you, Alex.

[Brent Pasqua]

All right, Lawrence. Good luck out there.

[Alex Wagner]

Thank you. Well, to understand the historic, apocalyptic, worst ever firestorm in Los Angeles, you can begin with the thought of what a hurricane would be without the wind. It would be a rainstorm. It could be a heavy rainstorm, but never more than a rainstorm. The water might find some leaks in your roof. There might be some huge puddles out there on the road that you can't drive through if it's a really, really bad rainstorm. But there would be very, very little actual destruction in a hurricane without wind. A rainstorm. Wind is the single most destructive force that exists in our natural elements. The destructive force of a hurricane is in the wind, not the rain. The wind speed is what you fear in a hurricane. The Wind speed is what they keep reporting to you. The wind speed is what can kill you. That's why they want you to know it. The wind is what you're fleeing when you're evacuating a hurricane. The wind can sink the biggest ships ever built. The ocean doesn't sink those ships. The wind does. The wind creates those giant waves that can sink those ships. The wind can down airplanes. The wind can rip the roof off a building. A funnel of wind called a tornado can knock down everything in its path. They called it the Pacific Ocean when they first saw it, standing on cliffs in what's now California, looking out on that ocean, because after their experience with the stormy, windy Atlantic, they were looking at the calmest ocean scene they had ever seen, the most peaceful ocean they had ever seen. When they first stood on the west coast of this continent and looked out at that ocean on the edge of what is now called California, they thought, how peaceful, how pacific. That's what Pacific means. They really couldn't believe that it wasn't just windy all the time, like an ocean is supposed to be. But wind is the most dangerous natural element in California. Wind can destroy much more than earthquakes can destroy. Because when a strong wind finds even the slightest spark, it turns it into fire and then turns fire into an explosion of flame and blows it at everything in whatever direction the wind is blowing. The prevailing wind in Los Angeles, the most common direction of the wind is from the ocean to the land. The wind carries the coolness of the ocean air and the moisture of the ocean air. The most dangerous wind, the wind that is burning down Los Angeles tonight comes from the east. It comes from the desert areas east of Los Angeles. And that wind, that deadly flamethrower wind, is named after a saint. Santa Ana. Almost all the place names in California are Spanish, since it is all territory that was once Mexico seized by the United States. Even the wind has a Spanish name, Santa Ana. It is as hot a wind that blows in America. It travels over land with none of the cooling power of the ocean, none of the moisture of the ocean. It is dry. And when it's traveling over the driest of California, land that hasn't seen rain during the rainy season, ignition is inevitable. It has to happen. It has to happen. And that is why, before a single spark emerged anywhere in Los Angeles, the fire department issued a warning the night before the fire started, saying that Tuesday would be an extremely high risk fire day in Los Angeles. Not because anyone was going to make a careless mistake with a cigarette, but because of the Fact that the warm Santa Ana wind coming across the driest of winter Los Angeles in many years would surely somewhere be turned into fire. The question was just how big. And when the Santa Ana came, it was the worst wind Los Angeles had ever seen. Gusts up to 100 miles per hour. I've never seen winds at half that speed in Los Angeles. Gusting winds at hurricane levels. A hurricane with no rain, a hurricane with only the destructive power of wind until that wind found a spark. And then instead of delivering rain, that wind, that hurricane force wind helps. The kind of wind that whips at you during a hurricane, whips rain at you during a hurricane. Instead of whipping snow at you as it does during a blizzard, that wind, the Santa Ana wind delivered what it's famous for. It delivered what it's feared for. That wind didn't deliver fire, didn't deliver snowflakes. That wind, it did deliver fire, didn't deliver rain or snowflakes. That wind delivered fire. The wind put that fire where it is tonight. And asking why the fire department doesn't have the resources to put out these fires is like asking asking why the New York Fire Department couldn't put out a fire on the 100th floor of the World Trade center caused by burning jet fuel. The fire on 911 was in an unreachable place for firefighting technology. And everyone knew that. Everyone understood. That's why that was so horrible. And that's where the Los Angeles fires always start. They start in inaccessible wilderness areas where fire trucks. It takes a while for people to know that there is even a fire happening in those places. And by that time it's already raging toward homes. And the fire department starts on these fires as far behind a Santa Ana windfire as the New York Fire Department was behind when they rushed toward the World Trade Center. There was nothing that they could do on 9 11. And that is a human truth that some people refuse to learn. Every once in a while, there's nothing that we can do, not within our human power. Every once in a while, something happens that is beyond our control. And yes, sometimes that's fire. Everyone knows when hurricanes stop, hurricanes stop when the winds stop. No one has ever stopped a hurricane. That's what's happening in Los Angeles. It is a hurricane without the rain, it is a hurricane with fire. The hurricane can only stop when the wind stops. In the meantime, the firefighters are doing as heroic a job as firefighters have ever done in the face of a California fire. Everything that I have just told you about Los Angeles fires has been true for every day of our lives. And quite understandably, most people outside of Los Angeles, outside of California, don't really understand that. The brilliant writer Joan Didion moved to Los Angeles from New York at the peak of her writing career. She was from Sacramento, so she knew a bit of what she was getting into in Los Angeles, where she added screenwriting to her literary workload. And 57 years ago, in Slouching Towards Bethlehem, Joan Didion wrote, Los Angeles weather is the weather of catastrophe, of apocalypse. And just as the reliably long, bitter winters of New England determine the way life has lived there, so the violence and the unpredictability of the Santa Ana affect the entire quality of life in Los Angeles, accentuate its impermanence, its unreliability. The wind shows us how close to the edge we are. Thousands of people in Los Angeles have discovered this week that they were over the edge. And they have gone over the edge into the oblivion of complete burnout. Not just their burned down home, but their completely burned down street in their completely burned down neighborhood. And I remain among the lucky ones living on the edge in my case, while I'm here in New York City studio tonight, my house in Los Angeles is right on the edge of the fire. Fire trucks have been on my street for most of the last 24 hours, hoping to hold the line at or near my street if the winds decide to blow more strongly in my direction. It's not up to the fire. What happens to my house or any house in Los Angeles is not up to the fire tonight. Our homes in Los Angeles, if they will survive, is entirely up to the wind. And Santa Anna is going to come back tomorrow and as usual, she will bring no mercy. Leading off our discussion tonight is Cal Fire Battalion Chief Brent Pasqua in the Pacific Palisades. Brent, what is the situation there as of tonight and what can we anticipate overnight?

[Morgan Chesky]

You know, Lawrence, I'm happy to report today was a good day as far as the winds go. They were predicted for this afternoon. Tonight we're still yet to see them. We're taking full advantage of this time to try and get the upper hand or at least turn the corner on this fire.

[Alex Wagner]

And it's all about the wind, as I understand it, that for you to get control, the wind has to in effect, cooperate. You said to me last night the wind was working in your favor last night. Meaning that's what allows you to do your job.

[Morgan Chesky]

Right? We fought these Santa Ana wind driven fires before we put them out before the last couple of Days were nothing like we've seen before. It was 80 miles an hour sustained. We were just trying to get people out of the way and then chase spot fires down. Today we took the fight to the fire.

[Alex Wagner]

And what can you tell people about this? Where you are in the Palisades and the area on that western edge of. Of Los Angeles that edges up to Brentwood and Santa Monica, there's a massive evacuation zone outside of the actual fire zone right now. And people there are wondering if it's possible that in your view, do you think it might be possible that Saturday might be the day when people can start coming back and trying to take a look?

[Morgan Chesky]

You know, I really hope so. I think that's being optimistic. I was up there today. It still looks like a war zone. There's wires down across all the roadways. There's trees that have not burned but been blown over by the wind that are still blocking roadways, smoldering houses. I saw a gas main leaking where a house was and still fire coming out. So that leads me to believe. I hope it's Saturday, but it might be a little longer seen. With all the work that needs to be done still to keep it safe.

[Alex Wagner]

What is the cooperation that you need now from people in the area?

[Morgan Chesky]

You know, just patience. Patient with us. Once we get this fire under control, our main priority is to get them back up in there to see what they can, what they have left, what they can find. I know it's tough. I can only imagine being in their shoes. They want to be there now, but again, they have to have patience. We want to make sure it's safe for them to go back.

[Alex Wagner]

And, you know, I always want to ask you, Chief, about the people working with you trying to control this fire and what they are going through. There's a lot of people who are suffering, but there's a lot of people who are working at a heroic pace. What is the typical sleep cycle for people you've been working with? How are you? You doing it?

[Morgan Chesky]

So the crews. I've been talking to, my crews out here, they've been taking naps when they can. One guy will get a little bit of shut eye while the rest work and they'll. And they'll take turns. They don't want to go in. They don't want to take a day off. They don't want to be down for 24 hours, especially when there's still a firefight going on. They would rather stay out there, make do and again make some progress on this fire. They don't want to be down while there's other people out here trying to put this fire out.

[Alex Wagner]

Cal Fire Battalion Chief Brent Pasqua, thank you very, very much for joining us again tonight. And thank you and everyone working with you for what you're doing there.

[Morgan Chesky]

You're very welcome. Thank you.

[Alex Wagner]

Thank you. And joining us now is NBC News national correspondent Morgan Chesky, who is also in Pacific Palisades. Morgan, what have you been able to find today and tonight.

[Robert Kovacic]

At Lawrence, heartbreaking scene in in every direction you look. We had a chance today to embed with a Los Angeles fire crew. We joined a captain who took us really on day three of this firefight. And it was so telling, Lawrence, as to what we witnessed into how this fire has evolved over the last 72 hours or so since it erupted here from what we're told in a Pacific Palisade's backyard, at least for this particular fire. But we arrived on the scene of a home not too far away from where I'm standing, Lawrence, to find a San Francisco crew that had driven down to help out the crews here. And the house fire likely caused by a single ember that had landed in and among a rooftop there. The home fully engulfed. And Lawrence, I can't tell you how many times we've heard and now we've seen crews plug a hose into a fire hydrant and try to get any sort of flow and not have enough to conduct an adequate firefight. The San Francisco crews telling us that they had to call for a tanker. Precious minutes ticking by as we watch those flames take over yet another home in the Pacific Palisades. There was a firefighter on the roof who told me if we had enough water coming out of that hydrant, we probably could have saved at least part of this home. Instead, it's likely a total loss even with that tanker coming by the time it did arrive, it's essentially just a defensive fight to keep that fire from spreading to other nearby homes. And we saw that play out yesterday at the Eaton fire near Altadena, Lawrence, and we saw that play out again today. And it just underscores a lot of the frustration in this particular firefight here.

[Alex Wagner]

Yeah. And officials have explained, actually President Biden conveyed one of their explanations today about how power has had to be cut to many of the systems that power the pumps for the hydrants. I know that power has been off on my street all week because of the danger that is felt about the possibility. There's a lot of above ground overhead power lines and electrical lines going on. Telephone poles in those neighborhoods and they're afraid of fires moving across that. Morgan, there's so many additional resources that we've seen there, including these remarkable planes from Canada that drop down into the Pacific just off the Palisades, scoop up water, fly it back up over the Palisades and drop it. A family member of mine showed me a video of one of these planes on the very first day of the fire. She didn't know what she was looking at when they were going down to land right onto the ocean and scoop up that water, but she just kept her video camera rolling. And we figured it out as we were watching it. It's just an incredible convergence of resources on this, including from Canada.

[Robert Kovacic]

That's right, Lawrence. And you mentioned those planes from that fire that we were at. We could see those pilots so skillfully come to the level of the water, scoop up that crucial water and continue to make drops all afternoon long. We do know that any resources, really from anywhere, particularly Canada, can help us help fire crews rather try to get a handle on these blazes that at last check, remain 0% contained. And that's despite the drop in the winds here. I should add that we do know that fire crews from Oregon, from Arizona, have now made their way here, in addition to the ones from all over California. One question that I asked the fire captain that I tagged along with today, Lawrence, that really struck me is I said, if you had officials sitting in front of you right now at this point, three days in, what would you ask for to have conducted a proper firefight? More of what? He said, more firefighters, more working fire hydrants, more fire trucks. He says more of everything is what Los Angeles Fire Department needed to have taken on this fire the best way they know how. And instead what they've had to do is use whatever resources they have to do the best they can, essentially in conditions that are about as far from optimal as you could possibly get.

[Alex Wagner]

Yeah. And they have never been more spread out. It's over a 30 mile range from the Pacific out into the interior fire. NBC's Morgan Chesky, thank you so much for your coverage of this and for staying on it for us. Really appreciate it. Thank you. And when we come back, we will have more on the fire coverage in Los Angeles. Exactly what's happening there. President Biden ordered new resources, massive military planes to join in the fire suppression effort. Planes capable of dropping more fire suppressant and water onto these flames. Those planes are on the way. When we come back, though, we are going to be discussing what I'll be doing first thing tomorrow morning in a Manhattan courtroom at 9:30am watching Donald Trump face sentencing as a criminal defendant. That's Next with Andrew Weissman.

[Amon Mohadin]

Amen on MSNBC is now available as a podcast every Saturday and on Sunday, host Amon Mohadin reads between the lines of the week's biggest stories, spotlighting the pressing issues facing our country, our world and those fighting to solve them.

[Robert Kovacic]

We are tracking the fallout across the Middle east tonight.

[Amon Mohadin]

Search for Eamon wherever you're listening and follow. And for ad free listening to this show and other MSNBC podcasts, subscribe to MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts. Stay up to date on the biggest issues of the day with the MSNBC Daily Newsletter. Each morning you'll get analysis by experts you trust, video highlights from your favorite shows.

[Alex Wagner]

I do think it's worth being very clear eyed, very realistic about what's going on here.

[Amon Mohadin]

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[Alex Wagner]

The breaking defendant TRUMP News of the night is that convicted criminal defendant Donald Trump will be sentenced in about 11 hours from right now at 9:30am tomorrow morning in a Manhattan courtroom for his 34 felony convictions. At around 7:15pm this evening, the Supreme Court rejected United States Supreme Court rejected Donald Trump's effort to block his sentencing. 54 Majority rejected the Trump request to block the sentencing with Chief Justice John Robertson Amy Coney Barrett voting with the other Democratic presidential appointed judges. The order reads in full, quote, the application for stay presented to Justice Sotomayor and by her referred to the court is denied for the following reasons. First, the alleged evidentiary violations at President Elect Trump's State court trial can be addressed in the ordinary course on appeal. Second, the burden that sentencing will impose on the President elect's responsibilities is relatively substantial in light of the trial court's stated intent to impose a sentence of unconditional discharge after a brief virtual hearing, Justice Thomas, Justice Alito, Justice Gorsuch and Justice Kavanaugh would grant the application. Justice Alito, of course, did not recuse himself as we knew he wouldn't, despite having had a phone conversation with Donald Trump on Tuesday before Donald Trump filed appeal in which Samuel Alito was trying to get a job with Donald Trump for his former clerk. Joining our discussion now is Andrew Weissman, former FBI General Counsel, former Chief of the Criminal Division for the Eastern District of New York. He's an MSNBC legal analyst, Andrew 5:4, what do you make of the Supreme Court's ruling?

[Andrew Weissman]

Well, I think the first is to step back and realize that 10 days from now the new president of the United States will come into office. Somebody who is convicted of 34 felony counts after a trial by his peers, with all of the due process of any defendant in terms of the history of this country, in terms of how we are seen internationally, in terms of how we think of ourselves as a country, this is a monumental moment in our history and that is something you will witness tomorrow. Obviously, the main event was the jury verdict, but this brings us to a conclusion in terms of the trial phase, in terms of the 54 decision. The most interesting part here is the Chief justice, Chief Justice Roberts essentially flip flopping from his presidential immunity position. It's no surprise that Amy Coney Barrett, who's somebody to keep your eye on because she had actually, actually dissented from the main issue. That would have been an issue here. So it was really for the presidential immunity decision. It was really 5 4. And this is one where essentially you have the court saying, we're going to treat you like any other defendant. Something that I take for granted is, you know what happens in cases like this. The defendant, if he or she is convicted, they are then sentenced and then on appeal they can raise any and all issues. That's the order of things here. Donald Trump said essentially I'm special. I don't want to be sentenced. I want to immediately take an appeal without going through that intermediary step, even though everyone else does that. And so it's right that the Supreme Court said, no, that's not the way it works. You can raise this like anyone else. The shocking part of this case is that it was five to four, is that you have four justices. And to me it means to the extent anyone was looking at Brett Kavanaugh and thinking that he was going to be part of a sort of swing of Amy Coney Barrett, the chief justice and Brett Kavanaugh. This signals that he has really put his lot in, it seems to me, with the conservative, the sort of arch conservative group.

[Alex Wagner]

And two of those justices, Thomas and Alito, completely compromised as to the appearance of impartiality. They, of course, should be recused from the case. They should have recused themselves and they haven't. So there's that. In addition to it, we're going to squeeze in a quick break here and go to the other big defendant, Trump. News of the night, which is the appeals court saying yes, Jack Smith report can come up. We're going to be back with that right after this break. We're going to pause our legal discussion with Andrew Weisman for the moment and go right back to our live coverage of the Los Angeles fires. Joining us now is KNBC reporter Robert Kovacic, live from the Pacific Palisades. Robert, what is the situation there tonight?

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

The situation is just as bleak as it has been now for the past few days. Lawrence just ran into a firefighter and he said there's really nothing left to burn here in the Palisades. We are just off of Sunset Boulevard. And you consider that this is a wildland, a brush fire. And to talk about Sunset Boulevard being impacted. And when I say impacted, there's basically nothing left in this neighborhood.

[Alex Wagner]

And so that raises the question, as you know, locally, for everyone around there and other areas of Los Angeles, but with the particular fire spot you're covering tonight, is there any anticipated movement of the fire tonight or tomorrow? Is there a direction they anticipate movement or do they anticipate no movement?

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

There is a concern right now that up in the hills pushing towards pch, they explained to me there is a pocket of homes that is nestled up there. It is too difficult to traverse on the ground. It is a difficult firefight because of power lines to try and get to that fire. So there is still a pocket of fire that is pushing towards pch, Pacific coast highway, pushing towards the ocean, pushing towards Malibu. And there are still homes in harm's way. And that becomes a factor as well when the wind may have died down for now, but they're only expecting the wind to continue in just a few days time. And that is a very big concern.

[Alex Wagner]

And I've seen the fire map coverage indicating that down the hill, down the hill from where you're standing, which would be down into Rustic, Rustic Canyon. There's either very little damage or no damage yet. And that's what separates the Pacific Palisades fire from Santa Monica. And there's tremendous worry in Santa Monica that that fire will work its way down Rustic Canyon and then back up the hill on the other side into Santa Monica.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

And Lawrence, you're right, you know the west side of Los Angeles very well. But what they are looking at right now is the fact that the Pacific Palisades you cannot access. We're about to put in a curfew here to avoid looters. No one is allowed in anymore tonight because people have been trying to come in just to go to whatever's left of their Homes not to see if there's anything left, but if there's anything left to pick up medicines or what have you. But what was interesting is just before we came on air, I ran into a army colonel and he said, I've been to Iraq and I've been to Afghanistan and now this. And I said, well, you know, are they comparable? And he said, the difference is in the war torn countries, he said, they're prepared. These people are not prepared. They're not prepared for what they just witnessed. They're not prepared for what they just went through and they're not prepared for the aftermath. And Lawrence, you understand this. How can they be? We're talking about one of the most desirable zip codes in all of Los Angeles, one of the most enviable places to live in the entire nation. And now it is known as the spot of the worst disaster in the history of the city of Los Angeles. The worst disaster in the history of the state of California.

[Alex Wagner]

Robert, you know, as you say, so many people are asking each other and it comes across my texts flying around, you know, can we go home if they're just in an evacuation zone, for example, that is not a fire zone, but it's just an evacuation zone. Can we go home to get medicine? Can we go home to get something important we forgot? Some of them are trying to do that. I'm not sure how they're succeeding, but most of them are just assuming they can't.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Lawrence, you have to first of all show proof of residency. Your driver's license actually has to have your address on it. And you have to either convinced or have some type of prescription to show the LAPD or another law enforcement agency that you actually have to go to your home. Then they escort you to your home and then they immediately bring you back to the checkpoint. That is what Palisades has become. And that right now is only from the daylight hours because as of now, they're not letting anybody in. Because on top of everything else this community is going through through, they're now afraid of looters and vandals coming into this area. But I will tell you, there's not much left.

[Alex Wagner]

KNBC's Robert Kovacic, thank you very much for joining us tonight. I know how long your day has been. I've been watching KNBC coverage all day. It is the best way to know what's really happening there. Thank you so much for joining us. Thank you.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Thank you, Lawrence.

[Alex Wagner]

And after this break, we'll be back with Andrew Weissman on the latest ruling in the federal appeals court saying that Jack Smith's report can be released. That's next.

[Amon Mohadin]

Amen on MSNBC is now available as a podcast. Every Saturday and Sunday, host Amen Mohadin reads between the lines of the week's biggest stories, spotlighting the pressing issues facing our country, our world and those fighting to solve them.

[Robert Kovacic]

We are tracking the fallout across the Middle East.

[Amon Mohadin]

Tonight, search for Eamon wherever you're listening and follow and for ad free listening to this show and other MSNBC podcasts, subscribe to MSNBC Premium on Apple podcasts.

[Alex Wagner]

Tonight, the 11th Circuit Court, 11th Circuit Federal Court of Appeals in Atlanta ruled that Attorney General General Merrick Garland can indeed release special prosecutor Jack Smith's report of his investigations of Donald Trump. Back with us, Andrew Weissman. Andrew, what do you make of this one?

[Andrew Weissman]

So this is another good decision from the court. This is the 11th Circuit ruling in a way, completely contrary. Shockers to Judge Cannon. This now makes sense.

[Alex Wagner]

Every time her work has been presented to them, they have overruled her on a Trump matter.

[Andrew Weissman]

That is exactly right. This is strike three. So she was reversed twice pretrial before pre indictment, actually. And then here the defendants asked for an injunction and it was denied. That does leave in place because you're going to be what's next. So that leaves in place that Judge Cannon said that there is an injunction for three more days. Presumably she gave those three days in order for the defendants to have an ability to go to the Supreme Court. So there's no downside for them to try and seek Supreme Court review of this. That seems highly unlikely even for this Supreme Court that they would take this case. And so three days from now, I think it's an incredibly good chance that we're going to see the volume of the report that relates to the January 6th investigation. And with respect to the part of the report that deals with the Mar A Lago investigation, which by the way, could behave really important information, not just about Donald Trump, but about Cash Patel. That is one that Merrick Garland has said that he is not planning to make that public. He is only planning on giving that to certain people in Congress. It's not because of an injunction. It is Merrick Garland's decision that because there are two co defendants appeal that he is not seeking to have that released publicly.

[Alex Wagner]

And the appeals court said nothing about any distinction between the two volumes.

[Andrew Weissman]

Nothing at all. They just said there was a request by the defendants to have an injunction for the whole shebang, stop Garland from.

[Alex Wagner]

Doing what he wants to do and.

[Andrew Weissman]

They said, and they said, as a judge I used to practice before said, I have two words for you. Denied.

[Alex Wagner]

Yeah, it's the there's so many rulings that are like that. People have grown accustomed, I think in this carnier for kind of elaborately written explanations about what judge is doing. But this was just one of those. No, no, nothing to it. Like a rubber stamp sort of a thing.

[Andrew Weissman]

Exactly. So here expect that there'll be some sort of action over the week. It is possible that the government will go back to the 11th Circuit to say, shorten the three day period so we don't have to wait that long. But it's all good news in terms of public transparency.

[Alex Wagner]

We're going to need you Monday. Andrew Weissman, thank you very much for joining us. Tonight's Last Word is a lesson about real integrity, using an example that I just heard today. That's next in tonight's Last Word. Now let's consider integrity. When Jimmy Carter was born 100 years ago, it was very common for men of any occupation who had the space for it to have a workbench of sorts where they could fix things and make things like kitchen tables and other woodworking feats that used to be relatively common skills and are now nearly extinct except among professionals. My grandfather, who was a factory worker, had a bench like that in the basement with a bunch of tools where we thought he could just fix anything or it seemed to us make anything that the house needed. Almost everything we heard today in the eloquent and moving comments about Jimmy Carter at his funeral at the National Cathedral, I already knew almost all of it. But there was something important I heard from Jimmy Carter's grandson, Jason Carter, that I did not know, something important to me, anyway, something that told me more about the man than thousands of words about his public accomplishments, something that would have impressed absolutely no one 200 years ago, something that I wish I could do but could never do, something that speaks to Jimmy Carter's competence and his precision and care and planning and devotion and love and artistry.

[Morgan Chesky]

The outpouring of love and support that we have felt from you and from.

[Alex Wagner]

Around the world shows how many lives.

[Morgan Chesky]

He has touched and how his spirit will live on in many ways for us. He'll be in the kitchen making pancakes or in his wood shop finishing a cradle for a great grandchild.

[Alex Wagner]

Standing in.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

A trout stream with Mom Carter.

[Alex Wagner]

Or.

[Morgan Chesky]

For me, just walking those Georgia fields.

[Alex Wagner]

And forests where he's from.

[Morgan Chesky]

Thank you.

[Alex Wagner]

Yes, there once was a president of the United States who made cradles for his great grandchildren. Young people watching that speech today will be able to tell their great grandchildren 60 years from now that they lived at the same time that a president of the United States was in his workshop finishing a cradle for a great grandchild. It sounds like something only one of our earliest presidents would have done. It sounds like something from the ancient history of the United States of America. But it happened in our time. A man of the sort of common decency that isn't so common anymore did more good after his presidency than any president in history. He modestly won about the most profound acts of kindness any former president has ever delivered here and around the world, including in his workshop, working with his hands. In an era when most former presidents can't do anything with their hands other than hold a golf club, looking for goodness in politicians is difficult because it's rare and because they can fake it. You can't fake it alone in the workshop. That cradle has its own integrity as a wooden sculpture. And in that cradle, Jimmy Carter's integrity will live after him.

[Amon Mohadin]

Stay connected with the MSNBC app bringing you breaking news and analysis anytime, anywhere.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Let's get up to speed.

[Alex Wagner]

We've got some breaking news right now.

[Amon Mohadin]

Watch your favorite shows live.

[Alex Wagner]

There's a lot happening here in Washington as Donald Trump's second term starts to take shape.

[Amon Mohadin]

Read live blogs and in depth essays and listen to coverage as it unfolds. Go beyond the what to understand the why. Download the app now at msnbc. Com Applied.