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The Last Word with Lawrence O’Donnell
Nationwide protests loom over Trump’s military parade
00:41:49
Tonight on The Last Word: Outrage grows over the handcuffing of Senator Alex Padilla. Also, “No Kings” protests are expected in over 2,000 cities on Saturday. Plus, Iran launches retaliatory missiles into Israel. And Trump policies disrupt life on the U.S.-Canada border. M. Gessen, Ruth Ben-Ghiat, David Rothkopf, Sylvie Boudreau, and Rep. Becca Balint join Ali Velshi.
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- [00:00]
Ali Velshi
How do you make an Airbnb a vrbo. Picture a vacation rental with a host.
- [00:04]
David Rothkopf
Who'S showing you every room like you've.
- [00:07]
Ali Velshi
Never seen a house before. Now get rid of them. There you go.
- [00:11]
David Rothkopf
No host ever.
- [00:12]
Ali Velshi
Now it's a vrbo. Make it a vrbo.
- [00:15]
Masha Gessen
Avoiding your unfinished home projects because you're not sure where to start. Thumbtack knows homes, so you don't have to. Don't know the difference between matte, paint, finish and satin or what that clunking sound from your dryer is. With Thumbtack, you don't have to be a home pro. You just have to hire one. You can hire top rated pros, see price estimates and read reviews all on the app.
- [00:35]
Ali Velshi
Download Today the Blast Word with Ally Velshi.
- [00:38]
Masha Gessen
Hosting starts right now. Hi, friend. Nice to see you. IRL, as the kids say. I'm here in D.C. i experienced tonight. There's lightning and thank you. It's good to be here. I have to say, I don't think the weather's gonna affect the 2000 protests that are going on in the country because they're deeply purposeful. I've been running into people today in D.C. who are talking about those protests and about the fact that they're feeling empower by the fact that they can go out there and they can demonstrate what democracy and freedom look like. So they'll get a little rain done. It'll be all right. It will be fine.
- [01:13]
Ali Velshi
Also, the no Kings protests are not.
- [01:16]
David Rothkopf
Happening in Washington, D.C. they're happening everywhere.
- [01:18]
Masha Gessen
That's correct. They're happening.
- [01:19]
Ali Velshi
They're happening everywhere else.
- [01:20]
David Rothkopf
So there'll be lots to watch, lots of footage. And I know you and I will be talking about this tomorrow night as well.
- [01:27]
Masha Gessen
We will. And it's great to see you in person and have a good night and I'll see you tomorrow. Well, outrage over Donald Trump using the military as pawns in a manufactured crisis in Los Angeles is building just hours before Donald Trump intends to abuse the military again. To celebrate, as Jen said himself, Donald Trump is throwing a multi million dollar military parade for the Army's 250th birthday, which just so happens to coincide with his 79th birthday. But that parade will be overshadowed by by the more than 2,000 protest events planned in cities across the country to declare no kings in America. The Trump administration is gaslighting us about what's going on in the streets of Los Angeles. Donald Trump's invented threats have led to a very real crackdown. ICE agents are not just targeting criminals as this administration would have you believe. They're going after people making beds in hotels, picking vegetables on farms, washing cars, offering help at Home Depots, sewing clothes in garment factories. And that lie has led to angry protests that Donald Trump wanted to squash. And he wanted to look very tough in doing that. So he deployed the military, the National Guard in California without the governor's consent, something that is very rarely done and never for these types of reasons. And a federal judge ruled last night that that is unlawful. The so called threat posed by protesters is not and has not reached the level to support the claim by Donald Trump that he made this morning. Quote, if I didn't send the military into Los Angeles, that city would be burning to the ground right now. We saved la, end quote. I don't know if you know anybody in la, but give him a call, send him a text and find out whether any of that is true. State and local officials say the opposite has happened. The Marines that Donald Trump claims he had to deploy were not on the streets of Los Angeles until today, where they are standing guard outside federal buildings. And this video from Reuters purports to show the Marines carrying out the first known detention of a civilian by active duty troops in Los Angeles. Reuters reports, quote. Asked about the incident, the US Military's Northern Command spokesperson said active duty forces, quote, may temporarily detect an individual in specific circumstances, end quote. Now NBC News reports Russia is doing Trump's bidding on protest disinformation, amplifying conspiracy theories on social media about the protests in Los Angeles against immigration raids. Quote, Russian media and pro Russian voices have embraced right wing conspiracy theories about the protests. Right wing American voices online are pushing the idea that the protests in Los Angeles are not what they appear and that a secret leftist cabal tied to Democratic politicians is orchestrating unrest, end quote. Sort of like Pizzagate. The former Republican governor of California, Arnold Schwarzenegger, said this. They make it out to like it is a war zone. The whole Los Angeles, the whole city or the county. And the fact of the matter is this, maybe 0.001% of the area of Los Angeles has problems and there's a protest. Yeah. And so I think that this is important for people to know because I don't want all of a sudden tourism to suffer in Los Angeles because what they see on television, because the media sometimes shows it as if the whole Los Angeles is a big war zone, which isn't really the case. The threat on the streets of downtown Los Angeles might be invented, but the Trump crackdown in response to it is real. A United States senator was pushed to the ground, handcuffed and forcibly removed for trying to ask the Homeland Security Secretary a question at a press conference. Senator Alex Padilla was exercising his rights in a state where he has clear legal oversight jurisdiction, and that's what happened. And what he was objecting to is the cruel and potentially unlawful treatment of this administration against immigrants and the characterization of Los Angeles as needing to be liberated. Republicans are mostly silent about this shocking breach of decency. Some Republicans have privately voiced opposition to what happened, according to Senator Padilla. A few have condemned it publicly, including Republican Senator Susan Collins, who said, I think it's very disturbing. He's being manhandled and physically removed. And it's hard to imagine a justification for that. The Republican Senator, Lisa Murkowski of Alaska said, it's horrible. It's shocking at every level. It is not the America I know, end quote. It's not the America I know. But many, many more have remained silent. This isn't about Senator Alex Padilla. Trump is testing the U.S. he's testing us. Figuring out what we will tolerate. Everything we've seen happening in Los Angeles is trying to send a message to people about resisting this administration. Donald Trump wants to demoralize you into thinking that protesting is pointless, resistance is futile, or worse, resistance will be met with force. That's why Donald Trump deployed the National Guard and the Marines to Los Angeles. It's designed to intimidate, to get all of us to fall in line. But we cannot, will not, and must not stay silent. This isn't normal. This is not what democracy looks like every day. Donald Trump is making this nation look more and more like a fascist state. We do not normalize this kind of violence simply because the White House doesn't agree with people who dissent. If this is how a United States Senator can be treated, then none of us ultimately are immune. We ask, how do you lose a democracy? How does one lose a democracy? This is how you lose a democracy. The question is, how will we respond?
- [07:44]
Ali Velshi
Will we defend this institution or will.
- [07:47]
Masha Gessen
We yield to the tactics of authoritarian, violent leaders? Now, this is why tens, perhaps hundreds of thousands of Americans are expected to mobilize tomorrow against Donald Trump's administration. The nationwide protest will provide exactly the split screen moment that Donald Trump doesn't want to detract from his embarrassing military parade, which many Republicans are skipping, according to Politico. Quote, among the 50 GOP lawmakers surveyed by POLITICO, only seven said they plan to stay in Washington this weekend for the festivities Those begging off include members of the Republican leadership in both chambers. Nearly a dozen Senate Republicans dodged questions from HuffPost asking if they were comfortable with the estimated up to $45 million price tag for a military parade as they try really hard to pass a cruel budget bill that will add trillions to the national debt, provide tax cuts to the wealthy, and cause 16 million people to lose health insurance. This is not a good look. And by the way, that's on top of the $134 million cost of deploying the National Guard troops to Los Angeles, something that no one thought was necessary. The political cartoonist J.D. crow dubbed Donald Trump's military parade, quote, democracy Death March in progress, adding quote, real US Presidents don't need a military parade to feed their ego. That's what authoritarian dictators do. Governor Gavin Newsom summed up what he thinks a military parade actually means for Donald Trump. It's a vulgar display. It's the kind of thing you see Kim Jong Un, you see it. Putin, you see it with dictators around the world that are weak and just want to demonstrate strength, weakness masquerading as strength to fet the dear Leader on his birthday. What an embarrassment. Honestly, that's about as small as it gets. How weak, how weak you have to be to commandeer the military to fet you on your birthday in a vulgar display of weakness. That's Donald Trump. But just because Donald Trump is throwing himself a military parade in the style of Russia or North Korea does not mean that America is like Russia or North Korea. And tomorrow's protests demonstrate why, despite Donald Trump's actions, America and is still a democracy. My first guest tonight, M. Gessen, told the New York Times, we're dealing with an anti democratic force that aims to continuously reduce the space available for action, whether it's action by journalists or action by lawyers or action by academics. For any group of us to act in our particular fields. That space is shrinking. So when we find our footing after a shock, we need to take stock of the space that's available and take advantage of all of it. End quote. Joining me now is the aforementioned M. Gessen, opinion columnist at the New York Times. Em, good to see you. Thank you for being with us. I really wanna explore this concept about the space in which you and I exist being shrunk, and what you say we're supposed to do when we absorb the shock of it all and we come back out, we evaluate the space around us. Tell me what that means to our viewer.
- [11:17]
Ruth Ben-Ghiat
You know, I spent many, many years living in Russia, writing about Vladimir Putin. But even more important, for the purposes of this conversation, just living in Russia, being a journalist there. And there is always, as an autocracy takes hold, whether it's doing it slowly, like Russia's did, or fast, like America is doing, there's always this sense of a shrinking space, right? There's something that you could do yesterday that you can't do today. But if there's one thing that you can see in hindsight, it's always, oh, my God, we had all this possibility, and we didn't use it. And so what I was trying to say is that when we normalize things, and we inevitably do because we're human and because we've sort of gotten used to this administration, as insane as it is, we kind of know its repertoire. It's already tried everything everywhere, all at once. And so we kind of feel like, oh, well, I can live with this. I can still do my work. I can still raise my children. I can still get up in the morning, which is all very important. But the more important thing is what can you actually do? What can you actually do that you may not be able to do tomorrow? And protest is very much a part of that.
- [12:31]
Masha Gessen
I think that's important that you say that, because there is. We still have agency in the United States. People use all sorts of examples, and I'm sure you have some. But often people talk about Germany in 1933. If you were in Germany in 1933, hoping things would get better, and you could see 1943 Germany, you might behave differently in 1933 Germany. And it's the same idea. It's the. If you could see into the future and say, this could go very wrong, but I can take action now, including protesting, that may derail this attempt for it to go badly. I should.
- [13:06]
Ruth Ben-Ghiat
Absolutely. And, you know, the thing that the main difference between Americans in 2025 and Germans in 1933 is that no country had quite gone through what Germany was going through in 1933, which is turning from a democracy into a totalitarian state very fast. But in 2025, we have a lot of that experience. We've seen. You know, we saw. We have the history of Germany in 20, in 1933, and we have all the contemporary autocracies in their slightly different flavors. And so we know what happens, and we know what's happening, and we know that we have a possibility to stop it now, and we're not gonna have it in a few years.
- [13:50]
Masha Gessen
And one of the things that's interesting is if you look back to Germany in 1933, it was a really sophisticated, advanced place, scientifically, culturally, artistically, you know, And I think people think the same thing about America. It's America. How bad can it get? And that might be the motivating factor for some people to decide whether to protest or do more. How bad can it get?
- [14:15]
Ruth Ben-Ghiat
Are you asking me how bad it can get? It can get really bad. You know, what we're seeing this administration do is demonstrating that it will not stop at convention, it will not stop at tradition, it will not stop at legal prohibition, and it will not stop at decorum. And it's demonstrating that everywhere, all at once. What happened to Senator Padilla, it was entirely unnecessary, except as a picture, except as a demonstration of how far this administration will go. What happened with Mahmoud Khalil today is a blatant violation of a very. Not just legal decisions, right? Not just judicial decisions, but judicial decisions in an extremely high profile case, the perfect case to show how far you will go if that's your goal, but also a case in which, if you're trying to demonstrate that for the most part, you're going to respect the judiciary and observe judicial decisions, a case that you would not actually choose to disobey the judiciary on. This is really dangerous. This is so much more blatant than what I saw with Putin for the first, I'd say 20 years of his rule. This sort of shamelessness, this obscenity. It's quite novel.
- [15:45]
Masha Gessen
I want to ask you about something you talked to David Leonhardt in the New York Times about. You said it scares me from the psychological point of view because I think that he's made a whole bunch of things that you're talking about Donald Trump, thinkable in a very short amount of time. Trump is open to all the fronts. I really fear that most people will look at it and first of all respond to their subjective feeling that their own lives haven't changed that much, or if they have changed, they can still live with it and then stop paying attention. I've had people say this to me, Em, that I'm just. I'm not kind of not following anymore. I can't take it. My head's gonna explode.
- [16:16]
Ruth Ben-Ghiat
Well, it's so strange because, you know, to some extent, obviously I'm a journalist. I professionally follow this, but not as closely as I was a couple of months ago because there isn't a whole lot new. The particulars may be new, but all the fronts have been open for four months now. Right. And so I'm not going to learn a whole lot from following everything in great detail. And I think that laypeople, it's a perfectly sane, well adjusted response to sort of say, well, I know what's happening and I have to build my life, I have to raise my children, I have to make my living. That is a normal response, especially during a time of economic insecurity which this administration is artificially creating. And that's no accident.
- [17:07]
Masha Gessen
Em, thank you for the work and for reminding us about what our responsibilities are right now. Em Gessen is an opinion columnist at the New York Times and an accomplished journalist. All right, coming up, Donald Trump is trying to make a spectacle in D.C. tomorrow with his military parade. But as we've mentioned, tens, maybe hundreds of thousands of Americans are planning to take to the streets across 2000 cities and towns to show Donald Trump where the real power lies. The real power lies with you, the American citizen. That's next. All right. Tonight we're just hours away from President Trump's latest spectacle, a military parade here in D.C. tomorrow evening, complete with tanks, troops and a flyover. It's going to be a full scale display of force here on the streets of Washington, D.C. timed not just to celebrate the U.S. army's 250th anniversary, but also, conveniently, Donald Trump's 79th birthday. A not so subtle message from the leader of the free world who's using the might of the armed forces not to defend democracy, but to celebrate himself. This is something immigrants from autocratic regimes, especially those who lived under the Soviet Union or Putin's Russia, recognize all too well. The cultural personality, the tanks, the flags. They've seen this movie before. But here's the thing. Across the country, something else is unfolding, something that is going to end up substantially bigger. The Washington Post reports, quote, in the hours before tanks barrel down the streets of Washington for President Donald Trump's grand military parade on Saturday, thousands of Americans will gather across the country in defiance, in defiance of what they call his dangerous brand of authoritarianism. The organized day of Protest in over 2000 cities, dubbed no Kings nationwide Day of defiance comes after a week of unrest and anger in Los Angeles. End quote. What we've witnessed in California this week after Trump's LA ICE raids, his efforts to federalize the National Guard and dispatching Marines, active duty Marines, has not stopped Americans from showing up. It hasn't scared them. It hasn't stopped them from speaking out and from protesting peacefully. It's a message that despite the fact that Donald Trump has occupied space on our Minds for the better part of the last decade, the most powerful and the most important person in America is not the president, it's you, the American citizen. And the protests are not just rejecting Trump. They're rejecting the idea that he alone speaks for the people. There's another message coming tomorrow from Chicago. Pope Leo will deliver his first ever virtual address to America. Pope Leo's first major act in the US Was appointing a former refugee as an American bishop. And that bishop is now urging clergy to accompany migrants to court, to show up and stand in solidarity. It's notable. It's notable counter programming, whether intentional or not, because while it may not be labeled as a protest, the Pope stands as a voice of moral opposition to the Trump administration's immigration policy. So on one hand, a vulgar military parade, on the other, a call to unity and for humane treatment of the undocumented. Joining me now, Ruth Ben Guy, history professor at New York University. She's the author of Strongmen Mussolini to the Present, author of the Substack Lucid newsletter for big picture thinking about autocracy and threats to democracy around the world. Hey, Ruth, it's great to see you. My executive producer, Melissa and I were talking and say, you know, poor Ruth, we bring her on, it's all doom and gloom, right? We always talk to her about the bad stuff. So we decided actively we're gonna talk to you about the good stuff tonight. The power of protest and the way in which citizens who do not want the things that are happening to happen can exercise their agency. Talk to me a little about that. What are you seeing and what, what can happen and what can work?
- [20:54]
Becca Balint
Well, thank you for bringing me on to talk about that. And indeed there in my book, Strongman, there's a chapter on resistance and that leads into the chapter of how you get rid of these guys, these strongmen. So there are things that we can learn from the history of resistance. And one key thing is that it remain nonviolent. The most effective mass demonstrations, mass social movements have been non violent. And the reason for this is when a protest turns violent, it alienates people who could be your partners and big tent across civil society coalition protest traction and make it become a social movement. And the other reason is that violence divides us. And one of the other rules of successful protest is unity, unity and solidarity. In fact, Ali, one of the reasons for this over the top military mobilization that is not needed. The LAPD said it could handle protests perfectly fine is to because it's very threatening to see so many people come out in Los Angeles on behalf of the vulnerable to put themselves at risk and show empathy and show solidarity in action. And so this is what protests do. It shows that we are coming out to say that this is not acceptable, that this is not who we are, and also modeling with our behavior, however we choose to protest the morals and the values that we want to see.
- [22:40]
Masha Gessen
Let's talk about the people who fight to preserve their democracy. Right now you've got Ukrainians fighting to preserve it. It still actually exists in their. But they're under complete threat with it. You've got people in Russia who haven't had democracy and who are still fighting to create it. Here in America, we have it. We continue to have agency. We continue to have not just the vote, but our First Amendment rights and the ability to speak out, despite the frights of using the military and the police and the arrests that we're seeing and the targeting of journalists and judges and lawyers and activists. What is the difference between where we are today and what's going on in Ukraine, what's going on in Russia, what's going on in Iran, happening in the late 30s in Germany and Italy and Spain? We have a tool that we can use.
- [23:27]
Becca Balint
Yeah. And one of the principles, and M. Gessen talked about this too, is it's very important to use all the spaces and tools that you have when you have them, because they may not be around tomorrow. You cannot take it for granted. So whatever that means to you. And everyone can find their own way of registering a protest because all of the freedoms that we have, other places don't have them. And people who come out in Iran to protest, the morality police, this is not just anger against their restrictions on women, but it's also, I've always seen these Iran protests. It's very dangerous to protest, and yet all these young women come out. It's really an act of love to. Toward even younger women to say that we're doing this now the same in Ukraine. We're fighting for you so that you can have a free future. And that's very moving. And so having this kind of sense of moral urgency and creating a better future, that's what happens when you've got autocracy. But we can think the same thing because there's a certain trajectory that's trying to take away our rights. And in protesting, we're actually encouraging others and creating a movement that can build a better future and allow us to avoid the fate of other nations.
- [24:57]
Masha Gessen
Ruth, we appreciate that because tomorrow's gonna be an important day, but it's not just tomorrow. There are gonna be lots of opportunities for people to say, I have agency and I'm gonna use it, and we're gonna use you to help us understand how to corral that power and demonstrate it. Ruth Ben Guyot is a professor at New York University and author of Coming Up Today, Iran, as we were just talking about, launched a retaliatory series of missiles at Israel in response to Israel's overnight strike. Once again, Donald Trump's repeated claims that he could prevent or solve all world crises look yet more ridiculous. That's next.
- [25:32]
Ali Velshi
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- [26:04]
Masha Gessen
Warehouse we believe that shoes are an important part of, well, everything.
- [26:09]
David Rothkopf
From first steps to first dates. From all nighters to all time personal bests.
- [26:15]
Masha Gessen
From building pillow forts to building a.
- [26:17]
David Rothkopf
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- [27:06]
Masha Gessen
In response to Israel's massive attack on Iran last night that killed a significant number of Iran's top military leaders and senior scientists. Today, Iran launched missiles toward Israel. Heavy smoke appeared in the night sky over Tel Aviv as incoming rockets from Iran descended on the city, with many intercepted by Israel's missile defense systems. Five people were reported injured by falling debris. According to Israeli emergency, Iran and Israel are firing missiles at each other in the Middle East. Putin's war on Ukraine is intensifying. Putin has repeatedly refused Donald Trump's pleas for peace. Remember What Donald Trump promised during the campaign as president, I will bring back peace through strength. If I was president, there would not have been a war with Russia in Ukraine. Zero chance. I'll have that done in 24 hours. I'll have it done. You need the power of the presidency to do it. A short time ago, Iran launched 181 ballistic missiles at Israel. And we, we. It's just, it's. I've been talking about World War Three for a long time. You have to remember there was an October 7th. Now, if I were president, that problem wouldn't have happened. In a column for the Daily Beast titled How Iran Strikes Put Trump's impotence on full embarrassing display, David Rothkop points out how all of Donald Trump's foreign policy bluster couldn't have been further from the truth and is once again being exposed with the latest Iran, Israel flare up. For a president who came into office professing mastery of the art of international diplomacy, great relations with world leaders, and ability to make peace in the world's most volatile regions, this latest development is yet another setback indeed. It demonstrates that despite his self image, and in ironic contrast to his critique of his predecessor, Trump may be turning out to be the most impotent American president of the modern era. Signs of Trump's weakness are internationally spreading and its costs are rising. In human, military, and economic terms, the new crisis in the Middle east could compound those costs geometrically and in so doing, diminish a US President who appears to be shrinking daily on the global stage. David Rothkop joins us now. He's a foreign affairs analyst. He's a columnist for the Daily Beast. He's the host of the Deep State Radio podcast. David, good to see you again. Thank you for being with us tonight. You point out in your article, which in this particular case is about Iran and Israel, but same similar things can be said about Ukraine and Russia. Either Donald Trump was complicit in this thing, in which case, if we end up having a big war, he's got some responsibility for it, or he's totally not and wasn't in the loop. Neither is a particularly good look.
- [29:42]
David Rothkopf
Neither is. And, you know, I mean, he's given every look in the past 24 hours, you know, the attack took place, and Marco Rubio said, we had nothing to do with it. Then Donald Trump said, well, I was against it, but maybe I was for it a little bit, but I hope they don't do it. We can get a settlement. This morning when he woke up, it looked like, the strikes have been successful by some terms. And he was like, yeah, I was behind this all along. And all of a sudden stories are coming out that this is him playing four dimensional chess in the Middle East. But we don't know how it's going to turn out. The one thing we know is there actually was an Iran deal and he pulled out of it in 2018. We could have avoided this whole thing if Donald Trump had simply said, yeah, let's stick with what we've got, maybe try to improve it, but let's avoid a war.
- [30:33]
Masha Gessen
Yeah, it was largely working. Let's talk about this four dimensional chess. He's got lots of approaches to things. With Ukraine and Russia, day one, he was gonna end this war. Not only is he no closer to ending it, it actually seems to have worsened.
- [30:49]
David Rothkopf
Well, it has. And you know, he's like, oh, Putin is my buddy. But, you know, every time he makes an ask of Putin, Putin sort of turns him away. But Trump doesn't want to use any kind of real pressure on Putin, just like he doesn't want to use any real pressure on Bibi Netanyahu. And so he is kind of, oh, for every deal he's tried to do, not a deal in Ukraine, not a deal in Gaza, not a deal with Iran. He said he was going to do 90 trade deals in 90 days, and there are zero trade deals. There's a framework with England, there's a band aid with China, but none of the things he's promised have actually come to fruition.
- [31:29]
Masha Gessen
There's a bigger issue here, David, that you write about, and that is the diminishing role and respect for the US Presidency. Look, we've ebbed and flowed with this over presidencies, but in this particular case, nothing seems to be taking. The authority and power of the US Presidency as it relates to foreign affairs does not seem to be taking root anywhere.
- [31:51]
David Rothkopf
Well, look, what were the roots of that power? One was our alliances around the world. He sought to blow those up. Another was that we were a beacon of democracy. We're not a beacon of democracy anymore. Another was that we could be trusted because we stuck by our agreements. Well, we haven't stuck by the Iran agreement. We didn't stick by nafta. Trump breaks agreements all the time. Another was we were stable at home. Well, we're not stable at home. We're torn apart at home. And what you see is a parade of foreign leaders, allies coming into the Oval Office and actually tweaking him, mocking him. Mark Carney from Canada, the German Chancellor, the Mexican president has done the same thing. The reality is Donald Trump is the most diminished, weakest president we've seen in our lifetimes.
- [32:47]
Masha Gessen
Well, he's gonna try real hard to show you otherwise tomorrow with the parade that we're gonna see here in D.C. david, nice to see you as always. Thank you. David Rothkoff is a foreign affairs analyst. He's a columnist at the Daily Beast and the host of the Daily State Radio podcast. All right, coming up, in Donald Trump's version of the world, everybody's an enemy. His deportation and border policies show the small mindedness of that particular vision. But it does not have to be that way. And in one small town on the border of Canada and the United States, Vermont and Quebec, one little library shows that there's another way. That's next.
- [33:19]
Ali Velshi
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- [33:51]
David Rothkopf
I've never felt like this before. It's like you just get me. I feel like my true self with you.
- [33:58]
Ali Velshi
Does that sound crazy?
- [34:01]
David Rothkopf
And it doesn't hurt that you're gorgeous? Okay, that's it. I'm taking you home with me. I mean, you can't find shoes this good just anywhere. Find a shoe for every you from brands you love like Birkenstock, Nike, Adidas and more at your DSW store or dsw.com this is an ad by BetterHelp. June is Men's Mental Health Month and every year 6 million men suffer from depression. If you're feeling overwhelmed, the strongest thing you can do is ask for help. And BetterHelp makes it easy. Take a short online quiz and connect from home with a qualified therapist. Visit betterhelp.com today to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp h e l p.com.
- [34:53]
Masha Gessen
Many of the no Kings Day protests that you'll see tomorrow on this network and on social media will be in larger cities. Major cities like New York, Chicago, Phoenix, Philadelphia. But there are going to be many more in small towns across the United States. It'll be a chance to stand up for Values that exist in sharp contrast to Donald Trump's values like making enemies of our allies. Donald Trump's crusade to secure the border, his tariffs on Canadian goods, and his continued calls to make Canada America's 51st state has created chaos in northern border towns, where the 1995 comedy Canadian Bacon is starting to hit a little too close to home. For those of you that think Canada is a mom and pop operation, it's time to wake up and smell the snow. Fact. Canada is now the second largest country in the world. Canadians freely cross over our borders, walking among us undetected. Fast forward 30 years and Donald Trump has produced his own real life Canadian bacon moment. And part of it's happening in a stretch of the border nestled between Vermont and Quebec. Life in the American and Canadian towns on that border were once so intertwined that a library, this library you're looking at, was built right on the border. That black line, that's the border between Canada and the United States that was built as a symbol of the cross border community. That's all changed. The New York Times reports that the Haskell Free Library and Opera House has straddled the border since 1904. It was the brainchild of Martha Stewart Haskell, the wealthy widow who chose the location not only for its symbolism, but also for its equal access to Canadians and Americans. For decades, Canadians left Canadian soil and walked down an open sidewalk next to the library to reach its main entrance, which was located on the US Side. No passports required. But the United States announced in March that it would bar Canadians from directly accessing the library, saying that the library's open border policy has led to cases of smuggling and other security concerns. Starting in October, all Canadians wishing to use the main entrance will have to go to a nearby US Border, crossing passport in hand, to officially enter the United States. Joining us now from Quebec is Sylvie Boudreau, the president of the board of trustees of the Haskell Free Library and Opera House. Sylvie, what a pleasure to meet you. I have been reading about and studying and wanting very badly to visit this library and opera house for so long. It'll still happen, but it is a. It is atypical. There are a lot of things that are on the border like that, but it's not atypical in that communities on either side of the border tend to be much closer than those of us would think. They don't behave like people in two different countries.
- [37:39]
Sylvie Boudreau
No, we are not. I mean, we are family. We are one big family. I mean, when I started working on the border in 1998, people were coming and it was just, I'm picking up the grandchildren, going to see aunts and uncles. Call everyone. There's a lot of people that are dual citizenship. So it was very free. It was very easy to go for sure. 9, 11 changed a lot. But now it's crazy. It's crazy crossing the border.
- [38:14]
Masha Gessen
In those days, you didn't even really need a passport to get across the border, but sure thing. Correct. You need a driver's license. So this library is amazing. It's got a 500 seat opera house. The stage is all in the United States or the stage is in Canada and about half the seats are in the United States. Is that how it is?
- [38:32]
Sylvie Boudreau
Exactly, exactly.
- [38:34]
Masha Gessen
So tell me what role this plays. This is sort of a community cultural institution. And both the Canadians and the Americans sort of feel equal ownership over this idea that this is their library and opera house.
- [38:47]
Sylvie Boudreau
It's their library. It's really. It's private, but it's their library. It's all the people around the two towns. It's free to have a membership there. We have activities, we have shows, we have movies. It's a place of culture, literature. It's a place that Martha Stewart Haskell wanted to do for both communities. And I mean, we don't care if you are American or Canadian or even visitors from other countries to come and look at this beautiful library, which is a sign of friendship and family.
- [39:24]
Masha Gessen
Yeah. It stands in sharp contrast to some of the things we're hearing today. But thank you. I'm gonna come and visit. I am gonna come there. I don't know if I can get a library card if I'm not from Vermont or Quebec, but I'm gonna come there and enjoy your library and see a show there. Thank you for joining us, Sylvie.
- [39:38]
Sylvie Boudreau
You are welcome.
- [39:39]
Masha Gessen
Sylvie Boudreau is the board of trustees president. The Haskell Free Library and Opera House, which we should all go and check out. Joining us now is the Democratic Representative Becca Ballant of Vermont. She's a member of the House Judiciary Committee. Thank you for being with us tonight. Nice to see you again. This is really an example, by the way. There are places on the southern border or communities that are similar. Right. Where people are integrated. They live on both sides, they got family on the other side. They might be dual citizens. They might have a job on one side and live on the other. This is much more common than some people would have us think our borders are. These are non militarized borders on both sides of our country. That actually work much better than they don't.
- [40:19]
David Rothkopf
Exactly. And as Sylvie said, and Sylvie is just a wonderful person. And you definitely should go to the library, Ali. You should definitely see a show there. It's an incredible. Not just an incredible resource for the community, but the community itself is so special. But so what she was saying is absolutely true, that they don't see themselves as two separate communities. It's not Derby Line on the Vermont side and Stansted on the other side. It is one community that has grown up there over hundreds of years. And when I spent time up there some weeks ago, one of the things I heard is it's not just that Trump's policies around the tariffs and having this ridiculous, asinine trade war with Canada, but it's hurting us economically here in Vermont because our economy is very tied up with Quebec. But it's also hurting relationships, family relationships, friendships, that those bonds have been so strong for so long. And, you know, I talk to businesses that have the same Canadians who come and visit them every year on the, you know, the U.S. side. And this year, business is way down. And they know Canadians are feeling quite insulted by the way the president has treated them. One of our closest allies and trading.
- [41:36]
Masha Gessen
Partners, I was just in Maine earlier this week, and there was a shop, and it said, we love our Canadian neighbors. So Canadians who are mad at Donald Trump are not mad at Americans. They're not mad at America, but they are walking with their wallets and their feet. The broader question here, and this is one you talk about a lot, and that is that we need to kind of stop othering each other, both between Canada and the US and here in the United States. Right. You're a big believer in the fact that there's another way that's not Donald Trump's way. It's not about looking at people and thinking that they're dangerous or evil or looking at immigrants and thinking they're an inherent threat or whatever the case is. I hope you're right. I believe you're right. Right. But how do we get to your view, given where we are right now.
- [42:16]
David Rothkopf
In the US I really appreciate that question. Here's what we know. Human beings are hardwired for connection.
- [42:23]
We need it.
- [42:24]
We crave it, not just for our emotional health, but also for our physical health. And what we're seeing right now in this country is that people are feeling disconnected from each other and they're feeling disconnected from themselves. And that is driving more of the anger and the fear of. Of the other. And so it's Critically important. When I talk to a group in Vermont, I'm not seeing Vermont as a monolithic blue state, because it's not. No state is.
- [42:52]
Becca Balint
Right.
- [42:53]
David Rothkopf
I have rural pockets that voted for Trump. I've got purple areas. And so I start or end each time I'm speaking to a group saying, I don't care who you voted for in the last election. What I care about is that we need to come back together as Americans, as Vermonters, as community members, because we are so creative, we are so resilient, and we are not going to get out of this mess that we're in by continuing to disconnect from each other and fan those flames of fear and division. And that is what this president wants. He wants us to distrust each other. He wants us to attack each other so we're not paying attention to his corruption and his grift and the fact that he is not accountable to the American people.
- [43:44]
Masha Gessen
Are you heartened by the fact that people are taking this message to heart? I think we're going to see it tomorrow. I think we're really going to see it across the world.
- [43:50]
David Rothkopf
We're going to see it tomorrow. We're going to see it. And we're not just going to see it in Vermont. We're going to see it all over Vermont, in tiny towns and, well, bigger cities in Vermont. But you're going to see it in Wyoming. My wife's family from Wyoming. I know there are going to be no kings rallies out there. I've got friends in Montana who are going to be showing up. And so we are Americans first. And this lie that Donald Trump has pushed on all of us is that we should fear each other. That is what autocrats do. That is what dictators do. And so what I keep telling people is we've got everything that we need to get out of this mess, but it's gonna come through connecting with each other.
- [44:34]
Masha Gessen
Yep. And we're gonna see a lot of that tomorrow. We got 12 hours to go. So for those of you who weren't thinking about going out there, if for no other reason, just to demonstrate your unity, your pluralism, and the fact that we are stronger together, think about that for tomorrow. Representative Becca Balint, thank you for joining us tonight. We'll be right back. I'm looking forward to tomorrow. We're gonna see a demonstration of what Americans who recognize their power. Coverage here on MSNBC about the nationwide protests against Donald Trump right here on msnbc. I'll be working all day. I'll be starting with Velshi at 10am to 1pm as always tomorrow I then will be out in the streets talking to people here in D.C. it's gonna rain, gonna rain along the east coast. Little rain never melted anyone. I think we are going to see record numbers of people turn out to tell you what they think about what democracy needs to look like. That's tonight's last word.
- [45:29]
Ali Velshi
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