Ocasio-Cortez & Sanders attract 34,000+ to Denver rally

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Ocasio-Cortez & Sanders Attract 34,000+ to Denver Rally"

Released on March 22, 2025, "The Last Word with Lawrence O’Donnell" delves into the significant political developments of the day. This episode focuses on the massive turnout for a rally in Denver featuring prominent Democratic figures Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (AOC) and Senator Bernie Sanders, amidst a backdrop of political tension involving former President Donald Trump and entrepreneur Elon Musk.

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1. Massive Turnout for AOC & Sanders Rally

The episode opens with a discussion about the unprecedented attendance at the Denver rally, where over 34,000 people gathered to hear AOC and Sanders address the pressing issue of oligarchy in America.

• Ali Velshi highlights the scale:
  "34,000 people... Never seen capacity crowds in a non-election year." [01:03]

• The Rally’s Significance:
  Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez emphasized the collective frustration:
  "We're all here together because we share in the frustration and heartache that comes from watching those in power actively tear down or refuse to fight for working Americans like us." [03:50]

  Meanwhile, Bernie Sanders underscored the global implications:
  "The whole world is watching. And they want to know if the people of America are going to stand up to Trumpism, oligarchy." [04:09]

2. Critique of Trump and Musk’s Policies

Both AOC and Sanders delivered strong criticisms against Donald Trump and Elon Musk, accusing them of undermining essential programs and the livelihoods of ordinary Americans.

• Bernie Sanders criticized their impact on democracy and social programs:
  "People fought and died to create a democratic society. You're not going to take it away from us." [04:09]

• Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez addressed the manipulation of working-class aspirations:
  "The spoils of that kind of corruption and billions of dollars are not earned. They are stolen." [06:56]

3. Democratic Response and Grassroots Mobilization

The podcast explores how Democrats are responding to Republican inaction, filling the void left by Republicans who are avoiding accountability.

• Ro Khanna, a Democratic Congressman, praised Sanders’ mobilization efforts:
  "Senator Sanders is really meeting the moment because he believes in mobilization." [11:26]

• Dave Min, another Democratic Congressman, recounted his own highly attended town halls, emphasizing the urgency of defending democracy:
  "We cannot right now be cautious or moderate in defending democracy and the rule of law." [15:57]

4. Indivisible's Empty Chair Town Halls

The episode highlights the innovative approach by progressive groups like Indivisible, who organize "empty chair" town halls to hold absent Republican representatives accountable.

• Rachel Maddow elaborates on the strategy:
  "Members of Congress... they wake up every morning thinking, how am I going to get reelected?" [30:21]

• Ezra Levin, co-founder of Indivisible, discusses the effectiveness of these events:
  "[These events] are voters who are veterans, these are people who live in rural America." [30:21]

5. Republican Inaction and Constituent Frustration

A recurring theme is the frustration among constituents towards Republican representatives who are perceived as ignoring critical issues and avoiding direct engagement.

• Sarah Godlowski, Wisconsin Secretary of State, voiced concerns about accountability:
  "They are seeing that he has dollars of government contracts, but yet he's willing to cut these vital programs... they deserve better." [43:47]

• Sheldon Whitehouse, Senator and member of the Senate Judiciary Committee, criticized the Trump administration’s disregard for due process:
  "What we're seeing over and over again are judges starting to call out misrepresentations by Trump lawyers." [37:10]

6. Impact of Policy Cuts on Americans

The discussion transitions to the tangible effects of policy decisions, particularly cuts to Social Security, Medicaid, and other essential services.

• Ro Khanna draws parallels to historical policies, warning against the dismantling of government support:
  "They're basically saying that the folks who get Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid are incompetent somehow." [12:51]

• Dave Min emphasizes the constitutional crisis posed by these cuts:
  "We are in a historic moment right now, and people will look back at this moment and say, what did you do to try to save our democracy?" [15:57]

7. Upcoming Elections and Continued Activism

The episode concludes by connecting the current political unrest to upcoming elections, stressing the importance of continued activism and voter engagement.

• Ali Velshi reports on Trump’s actions affecting upcoming elections:
  "President Donald Trump, this official from the White House has rescinded the security clearances and access to classified information for a slew of his political rivals." [18:06]

• Sheldon Whitehouse warns about the judiciary's role in checking executive overreach:
  "Justice Roberts making a very unusual, rare statement... we're at the point where the courts are starting to drill down to get the facts." [40:48]

8. Nicholas Kristof on US Aid Cuts

In a poignant segment, New York Times columnist Nicholas Kristof discusses the devastating impact of US Agency for International Development (USAID) cuts on humanitarian crises, particularly in Sudan.

• Kristof highlights the human cost:
  "All people in America have rights to Due process... these are regular Americans, many of whom voted for Donald Trump and Republicans." [42:53]

• Sarah Godlowski shares personal stories from South Sudan:
  "Elon Musk had said that no one has died because of the USAID shutdown... they are not numbers on a balance sheet. They are veterans, they're farmers, they're students." [43:47]

Conclusion

The episode underscores a pivotal moment in American politics where grassroots activism is surging in response to perceived governmental inaction and policy cuts. With record-breaking attendance at rallies and innovative forms of protest like empty chair town halls, Democrats are mobilizing to hold Republicans accountable and defend essential services against burgeoning oligarchic influences. The discussions reflect a nation at a crossroads, grappling with the balance between governance, accountability, and the preservation of democratic values.

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Notable Quotes:

• Ali Velshi:
  "34,000 people... Never seen capacity crowds in a non-election year." [01:03]

• Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez:
  "We deserve better. And this isn't just about Republicans. We need a Democratic Party that fights harder for us, too." [06:56]

• Bernie Sanders:
  "If we stand together, we are the vast majority of people. We can defeat Trumpism." [09:26]

• Sheldon Whitehouse:
  "If you go into court and lie for Trump... that's going to put a real break on some of the lies that are being told in court on behalf of Trump." [37:10]

• Nicholas Kristof:
  "This is we confront China not only with aircraft carriers but also with aid programs... USAID was started to advance American interests." [45:51]

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This comprehensive summary encapsulates the key discussions, insights, and perspectives shared during the episode, providing listeners with an in-depth understanding of the current political climate and the strategies employed by Democratic leaders to navigate and influence it.

Transcript

[Ali Velshi]

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[Rachel Maddow]

Now it's time for the Last Word with Ali Velshi. Good evening, ali.

[Ali Velshi]

Hey friend. 34,000 people estimated there last night. Those thousands in Tempe spoke to Kelly Morrison last night. She had 2000 people show up. Keith Ellison had 1300. This was a little gathering of Attorneys General Ro Khanna, who I'm speaking to shortly, has had to postpone his tonight eventually because too many people rsv. You know, everybody in my family, my immediate family either has held elected office or run for elected office except for me. So I spent my life going to these town hall meetings. You'd be really happy if you had several dozen people show up or over a hundred. Never seen capacity crowds in a non election year.

[Rachel Maddow]

Yeah, and I feel like we're getting a lot of like commentary at noise where people are like how come people aren't turning out to protest? How come the American people aren't showing up and saying they are in massive numbers and they are doing so in really big numbers in places like Washington, but in impressive, impressive numbers all over the country. Either to protest against what Trump and Musk are doing, directly to protest against Republican members of Congress who are siding with them, or to go give Democrats either a hand for standing up against them or to give them a piece of their mind for not standing up.

[Ali Velshi]

Hard enough against citizens holding their elected officials to account. What a what the highest calling of citizenship. I'm amazed.

[Rachel Maddow]

And we are seeing it all over the country in huge numbers in every different way that you can do it. I'm really glad you're focusing on it tonight, Al.

[Ali Velshi]

And you my friend. Thank you have a great night. Thanks. Will do. Yeah. I mean, something's happening out there. As Rachel just said tonight, in the last few hours, 34,000 people showed up on a Friday night to hear Senator Bernie Sanders and Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio Cortez talk about fighting oligarchy. We brought you some of their rally live in Tempe, Arizona, last night, speaking to 15,000 people and an overflow crowd, which was like a primal scream against the current state of the country and its politics. Donald Trump and Elon Musk are taking a wrecking ball to your income, to your livelihood, to your safety, to your public education, to your health care, to your Social Security. And Republicans are finding it harder and harder, in some cases impossible, to defend the indefensible. So they are refusing to face their frustrated constituents who want their lawmakers to stand up to Donald Trump and Elon Musk. But Democrats are in large part trying to fill that void, and they are drawing huge crowds.

[Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez]

We're all here together because we share in the frustration and heartache that comes from watching those in power actively tear down or refuse to fight for working Americans like us.

[Bernie Sanders]

In the hundreds of rallies that I have done, we have never, ever had a rally as large as this. And Denver, Denver, your presence, your presence here today is not just significant for Colorado. You are sending a profound message all over the world. The whole world is watching. And they want to know if the people of America are going to stand up to Trumpism, oligarchy. Hey, Mr. Trump. People fought and died to create a democratic society. You're not going to take it away from us. Hey, Mr. President. Turn off Fox TV and take a few moments to read the Constitution of the United States.

[Ali Velshi]

I just can't overstate this. 34,000 people. There's an election anywhere in at least certainly election for, for federal appointees anywhere in Colorado anytime soon. 34,000 people. This was day two of their joint Fighting the oligarchy tour. Senator Sanders said this about Congresswoman Ocasio.

[Bernie Sanders]

Cortez when she decided to run. She was taking on one of the most powerful members in the Democratic Party. And everybody said, you're crazy. How are you going to beat this guy? Maybe a future leader of the Democratic Party. She had no money. She had no political experience. But what she did is what all of us have got to do. She went out and worked with her friends, and she raised a few thousand dollars, and she worked hard and in a disciplined way. What Alexandria did is what millions of Americans can do.

[Ali Velshi]

Congresswoman Ocasio Cortez then said this about the programs that Donald Trump and Elon Musk are coming for.

[Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez]

The clever thing of what Donald Trump and what the right tries to do is make working people like you and me feel like we're just one step away from being inside that club. That maybe one day we will be a billionaire, too. Any billionaires here? I didn't think so. Yeah.

[Ali Velshi]

Yeah.

[Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez]

But here's the thing. The spoils of that kind of corruption and billions of dollars are not earned. They are stolen. Just look at what Elon and Trump are doing to our health care, our veterans benefits and Social Security. They are slashing the programs that we have have spent a lifetime paying into neighbor to neighbor, friend to friend, elderly to young person, teacher to student. And to me, the strength of our country is not just measured by the height of our best days. It's also about who and what is there for us on our worst days. Day Fox News and the right wing will have you believe that these American values are something out of the Communist Manifesto, that we believe these things because we went to some fancy school and read them in a book somewhere. But I can tell you I don't believe in health care, labor and human dignity because I'm an extremist. I believe these things because I was a waitress, because I scrubbed toilets with my mom to afford school, because I've worked double shifts to keep the lights on, because I did lose my dad as a kid and had to see my mom open the hospital bills a few days later. And I don't want us to live like this anymore. We deserve better. And this isn't just about Republicans. We need a Democratic Party that fights harder for us, too.

[Ali Velshi]

Here's more of what Senator Sanders had to say tonight.

[Bernie Sanders]

What the right wing wants us to do is to turn on each other. They want to divide us up by the color of our skin or where we were born or what our religion is or what our sexual orientation is. That's how they win. They divide us up. Now, I'm not a mathematician, but I do know that 99% is a hell of a bigger number than 1%. And I do know that if we stand together, we are the vast majority of people. We can defeat Trumpism. So, brothers and sisters, this is a difficult moment in American history, but it's not the first difficult moment we have had. We've gone through some rough periods in the past as well. But what I believe from the bottom of my heart, if we stand together, if we don't let them to divide us up, if we are smart. If we're willing to go outside of our comfort zones, there is nothing, nothing that can stop us. Let us go forward together. Thank you.

[Ali Velshi]

34,000 people. Those are presidential candidate level crowds. But it seems like voters all over the country are energized Tonight after receiving 1300 RSVP, five times the number his town halls usually draw. The California congressman Ro Khanna had to move his town hall that was scheduled for today to tomorrow in order to find a venue that could accommodate a crowd of that size. Joining us now is the Democratic Congressman Ro Khanna of California. He's a member of the House Oversight and Armed Services Committee. Congressman, great to see you again. Thank you for being with us tonight.

[Ro Khanna]

Thank you, Ali. And I'm so proud of what Senator Sanders is doing. I mean, he's really meeting the moment because he believes in mobilization. And I think that has inspired some of the crowds now that we're seeing in my district and the three red districts I'll be visiting in California.

[Ali Velshi]

Right. You're doing this as a bit of a program. You're going into some of these red districts. But we heard from Congresswoman Kelly morrison last night. 2000 people showing up, Keith Ellison and a numbers of a few attorneys general in Minneapolis. 1300 people showing up. These numbers are not typical for largely anything that happens outside of an election cycle.

[Ro Khanna]

They're not. But the folks in charge are so out of touch. I mean, you have the Commerce Secretary saying that he doesn't think people will notice if they don't get Social Security check. I don't know if he's met seniors who are struggling to actually pay rent and rely on those Social Security checks. And then they're talking about $880 billion of cuts in Medicaid. Medicaid is the largest health insurance program in the world. 90 million people on Medicaid. And that's going to mean millions, not just losing health care, but it's going to mean hospitals closing, particularly in rural communities and folks who rely on those hospitals being out of luck.

[Ali Velshi]

I want to just lean into that for a second. This is Howard Lutnick, billionaire in his own right, who, by the way, the other day may have violated the Hatch act because he said on Fox News that what a time to buy Tesla stock. It's never going to be this cheap. Like, I'm a, I'm a financial journalist. I've never in my life told my parents what stock to buy, let alone the public. Then he came out and he said the only people that would complain if they missed their Social Security check are fraudsters. They're always the loud ones. This concept. Elon Musk said the same thing. And Social Security is a remarkable place to go looking for waste, fraud and abuse. There are issues with Social Security and how we fund it for the future. This isn't actually one of them.

[Ro Khanna]

No, it's not. Look, this is Hooverism. There used to be a Treasury secretary in the 1920s, Andrew Mellon, and folks should look at him and he said, well, liquidate stocks, liquidate labor, liquidate farmers, liquidate government, because there are people who are incompetent, in Mellon's words, and we need enterprising people to take over. And that was basically Hoover and Andrew Mellon's philosophy in the 1920s. It led to the Great Depression. And now you've got the same type of people in charge. They're basically saying that the folks who get Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid are incompetent somehow, that they don't deserve these benefits, liquidate it all, dismantle government. And guess what? They're not just going to hurt working class people in this country. They're not just going to hurt ordinary Americans. They're hurting our economy. The growth of the economy is down since December. Inflation is up. The Fed chair is saying as politely as he can, these folks are ruining the economy. We've got a reincarnation of Hooverism. That's what we really have.

[Ali Velshi]

One of the things that Congressman Ocasio Cortez mentioned is that the Democratic Party, or people need a Democratic Party that fights harder. There are a number of Democrats who are going out there to these town halls and they're getting pushback too, to say, we need you to fight harder. What does that look like to you? What does fight harder mean?

[Ro Khanna]

Well, I think it means one, voting no and collaborating with Republicans. But look, I welcome when people come out and sometimes they push back on, even on me. And that's democracy. So the Democrats who are afraid of sort of move on or indivisible or our activist base are doing a huge disservice. And what Representative Ocasio Cortez understands, what Senator Sanders understands, what progressives understand, is ultimately to bring change in this country. It's not elected officials, it's movements. And they want us to stand up to Republicans, to vote no on collaboration and to actually stand up for the Constitution.

[Ali Velshi]

Congressman, good to see you as always. Thank you for joining us. Congressman Ro Khanna of California, who's again had to hold off his own town hall meeting because it's oversubscribed he'll be having that tomorrow. Joining us now is the freshman Democratic Congressman Dave Min of California, who held a town hall last night in Newport Beach. How did that one go?

[Dave Min]

Amazing turnout. We had over 1500 people. Somebody earlier today told me we might have had more than 1800 people. We held it in the gym. And look, we've been hearing for months now about the concerns that people have. And I have shared their frustration and fear and, yes, anger at what's happening right now. And so this was our second town hall. Our first, back in early February, had over 10,000 people on the telephone, a telephonic town hall. And we are hearing from people about all the cuts, the illegality of what's happening. And I have a slightly different profile than some of the other people you mentioned. I was in one of the closest races in the country last year. It's predicted to be one of the closest congressional races next cycle. And the conventional wisdom for someone in my position is to be quiet, to keep a low profile, to not make waves. But I'm a former law professor. I was alarmed at the very first hours of the Trump administration because what they were doing was so clearly illegal. And this is not an end run around the Constitution. They are attacking the Constitution front and center, including our Article 1 powers. Only Congress is allowed to legislate and to appropriate funds. Even my kids learned this in elementary school. So what we're seeing right now is a full on constitutional crisis. Every single day, we see Trump test the waters even more. And so we cannot right now be cautious or moderate in defending democracy and the rule of law. Now, I will just note the Cook Pol Political report came out with a blurb on my race, so they noted it would be one of the closest in the country. And they said that unnamed Democratic strategists had some concerns that I was being too vocal in standing up to Musk and Trump, that that might alienate swing voters. I think they're wrong. I think right now swing voters want to see us take action. And maybe I'm wrong. But I will say this. I am right about the following. We are in a historic moment right now, and people will look back at this moment and say, what did you do to try to save our democracy? And those of us who have a plat need to be able to answer that question and say, we did everything we could. We fought like hell. That's one of the reasons I introduced the first Doge related bill, the Bad Doge act, back in early February, which would repeal Doge Yeah.

[Ali Velshi]

Whether you win or not in the next election is momentarily less important than what you're actually doing in this moment while you hold a position of Member of Congress of the United States with the Article 1 responsibilities that you have. Congressman, good to see you. Thank you for joining us tonight. Congressman Good. Dave Min of California. We've got some stunning breaking news that has just come out from the White House. I've got it here. President Donald Trump, this official from the White House has rescinded the security clearances and access to classified information for a slew of his political rivals, including his immediate predecessor. This memo just released by the Trump White House reads in part, I have determined that it is no longer in the national interest for the following individuals to access classified information. Antony Blinken, Jacob Sullivan, Lisa Monaco, Mark Zaid, Norman Eisen, Letitia James, Alvin Bragg, Andrew Weissman, Hillary Clinton, Elizabeth Cheney, Kamala Harris, Adam Kinzinger, Fiona Hill, Alexander Vindman, Joseph R. Biden Jr. And any other member of Joseph R. Biden Jr's family. The former President of the United States. We'll be right back.

[Paige DeSorbo]

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[Ali Velshi]

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[Paige DeSorbo]

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[Ali Velshi]

More at DSW, it's President Trump's first 100 days and MSNBC's Alex Wagner will be covering it all from the front lines.

[Paige DeSorbo]

What issue matters to you the most?

[Ali Velshi]

Join her as she travels the country to talk to the people at the center of the president's policies and promises.

[Paige DeSorbo]

Do you think now that he's pardoned everybody he can count on this group of people again?

[Ali Velshi]

Search for Trumpland with Alex Wagner wherever you're listening and follow. Subscribe to MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen ad free. The first 100 days, bills are passed, executive orders are signed and presidencies are defined. And for Donald Trump's first 100 days, Rachel Maddow is on MSNBC five nights a week.

[Rachel Maddow]

Now is the time, so we're going to do it.

[Ali Velshi]

Providing her unique insight and analysis during this critical time.

[Rachel Maddow]

How do we strategically align ourselves to this moment of information, this moment of transition in our country?

[Ali Velshi]

The Rachel Maddow show, weeknights at 9pm Eastern on MSNBC. Voters across the country are making it clear that they want to be heard even when their elected officials do not have the to show up. So progressive grassroots groups like Indivisible decided to help them organizing so called empty chair town halls where concerned citizens can speak their mind to Republicans in Congress who've done nothing to stand up against the Trump administration and to Elon Musk, even if those Republicans aren't physically there. Indivisible says that Republican Senator Susan Collins, who represents the blue state of Maine, is up for reelection in 2026 and hasn't had a town hall for Maine voters in over 20 years. Here's what one voter asked Senator Collins, Empty chair last Night My question for.

[Sarah Godlowski]

You is very similar to so many people have asked you tonight. Where have you been when Elon Musk gave his Nazi salute on stage and.

[Ali Velshi]

Was celebrated by your party?

[Dave Min]

Where were you?

[Ro Khanna]

Where were you to stand up to.

[Sarah Godlowski]

Say that white supremacy has no place in this country?

[Ro Khanna]

Where the hell were you?

[Ali Velshi]

In upstate New York, voters confronted Congresswoman Elise Stefanik's empty chair even though Stefanik won't be in Congress much longer since she's been tapped to be Trump's ambassador to the United nations. In Florida's 7th congressional district last night, one hundred and fifty people showed up to yell at Republican Representative Corey Mills, empty chair. In North Carolina's 9th congressional district last night, Republican Representative Richard Hudson's empty chair got an earful about Musk's attack on veterans. If I have the opportunity to speak to Richard Hudson, I'm going to ask him how the hell do you get the golf to call yourself the veterans representative while you sit silent while Elon Musk and Donald Trump fired over 6,000 VA workers and they're claiming to. And in Eau Claire, Wisconsin, as we showed you last night, voters had plenty to say to Republican Derek Van Orden's empty chair. With their Republican congressman a no show, Wisconsin Secretary of State Sarah Godlowski stepped in to field the voters questions.

[Paige DeSorbo]

People of Eau Claire and the people of the third CD deserve answers. When a representative votes on a bill to cut $1.5 trillion and this money is going to impact essential services that western Wisconsinites rely on.

[Rachel Maddow]

He says they're not.

[Ali Velshi]

Oh, the budget is not meaning that we're going to cut Medicare and Medicaid.

[Rachel Maddow]

Well, I'd like to see that in writing that he's going to oppose any bill like.

[Ali Velshi]

My question for Mr. Van Orden is.

[Rachel Maddow]

Where are you and how can your constituents reach you?

[Ali Velshi]

Where are you and how can your constituents reach you? Joining us now is the Wisconsin Secretary of State, Sarah Godlowski. Sarah, we saw you last night. You know, we were, we were airing this stuff and we had said that, that Van Orton's not there, but there was somebody standing in the front who was receiving the questions and that was you. You were, you were accommodating the idea that voters have, I don't know if it's a, a right where it's written down, but have an expectation in America that they are able to speak, to access and hold their elected account officials to account.

[Paige DeSorbo]

No, that's exactly right, Ali. And thanks so much for having me. I mean, I've now done two town halls this week in my hometown district in western Wisconsin and people are showing up because they believe in fairness and they also believe in accountability. They are seeing how Elon Mus, this unelected billionaire, is making cuts to vital programs that they rely on, while at the same time he's using the White House front lawn like it's some sort of Tesla showroom. And Wisconsinites are like, where's the accountability? Well, the accountability is with Derek Van Orden, who is their congressional representative, but he's nowhere to be found. He refuses to hold any in person town hall meetings and he's treating his important job more like he's part of the Witness Protect action program instead of actually meeting with constituents who want to talk to him. And they deserve better.

[Ali Velshi]

And to be clear, because a number of Republicans are saying we're not going there because there are George Soros paid for activists who are running these things. We have watched these across the country. There are, these are voters, these are veterans, these are people who live in rural America. In some cases like yours, the elected Secretary of State in the front of the room. This is not, this is not a George Soros funded initiative. This is voters who would like answers about their, their veterans benefits and their Social Security and their Medicaid. And by the way, why Elon Musk is, is so influential in this government.

[Paige DeSorbo]

Well, that's exactly right. I, I showed up in my home district because I believe western Wisconsinites deserve an elected official that's going to listen to them and is going to show up. And western Wisconsinites were having these questions about Elon Musk's intent and they should because they're seeing that he has dollars of government contracts, but yet he's willing to cut these vital programs because to him they're just numbers on a balance sheet. But I'll tell you, they're not numbers on a balance sheet. They are veterans they're farmers, they're students, they're healthcare providers. I mean, a farmer was sharing at our town hall yesterday that he bought energy efficient program. He bought energy efficient equipment because he was told that the government there's a reap program that will reimburse him for that. And Doge just cut that program. So now he's on the hook for hundreds of thousands of dollars of equipment that he was told the government would pay him back. And they're not going to do that. And as a farmer, he's already facing tariffs. He's not sure how he's going to pay his bills. And farmers are critical to our lifeline across the country, putting food on our tables. And some billionaire is dictating who's going to get money and who's not. Again, that's not what a democracy looks like.

[Ali Velshi]

Not just tariffs, but the US Aid cuts. USAID provides food to countries that is grown in America. So farmers are losing those contracts. I just want to bring up something that has just happened. Donald Trump has posted on his social media. Wisconsin. There's a very important election for state Supreme Court on April 1 and early voting is underway. He then goes on to endorse Brad Schimmel, who's running against what he calls the radical left liberal, Susan Crawford. Important to note, Brad Schimmel is also financially supported by Elon Musk. There are canvassers in Wisconsin right now knocking on doors who are financially supported by Elon Musk. There are all these concerns about George Soros and the left in your state. There is actually an election on April 1 and Elon Musk is very, very involved in it.

[Paige DeSorbo]

Well, there's not only an election on April 1. I would say it's the most important election across the country because this will determine our Supreme Court, which is why Elon Musk is trying to buy it. He has already put over $13.5 million into this campaign because he knows Brad Schimmel, the conservative can be bought. You know, Brad Schimmel was our attorney general here in Wisconsin and he took money from big Pharma and then he tried to gut the aca. And so he is just a pay to play politician. And there's one thing that I can tell you about Wisconsinites is they don't want billionaires running this country. They want to make sure it's elected officials. Susan Crawford is running. She's been a judge in our state and has ensured that the law actually works for the people, not for the most powerful. And when you are looking at the supreme court who in 20 we determined that Donald Trump did not over, you know, did. He tried to overturn the election and the Supreme Court by one vote. That's it. Made sure that his BF BS claims did not succeed and so the stakes couldn't be any higher.

[Ali Velshi]

Wisconsin Secretary of State Sarah Godlowski. Godlowski, good to see you. Thank you for joining us tonight. I appreciate your time again.

[Paige DeSorbo]

Thanks for having me.

[Ali Velshi]

And just tonight, Indivisible held an empty chair town hall in Bozeman, Montana, where more than 1,000 people showed up. This is happening all over the country. 1000 here, 1300 there. 2000 there. 34,000 in Colorado, 15,000 in Tempe, Arizona. Thousand people showed up in Bozeman, Montana to hear three of the state's elected Republicans. You know how many of them showed up? None. Joining us now is Ezra Levin, co founder and executive director of the Indivisible Project, which, by the way, this week might be called the Invisible Project, because you've got these invisible Republicans who are not showing up at these events. I gotta say, Ezra, this is. I've seen a lot of politics in my life. I'm not sure I've seen this. There were concerns after the election that the resistance of 2016 was not showing up. The big rallies were not happening. Something else is happening and it's super targeted and maybe super effective.

[Rachel Maddow]

I think it's really smart. I gotta say, Ali, I love to see, I think, what we hear in the streets that this is what democracy looks like. In February, it was the first town halls of this year, and Republicans were caught off guard. They showed up and suddenly they were astonished to see hundreds of their constituents, including in deep red districts, say, why on earth are you backing Elon Musk and Doge? Why are you firing veterans? Why are you coming after Social Security? And you know what they did in response? They said, oh, we don't want to show up anymore. We're not going to go to town halls anymore. And so by and large, they're not showing up. And so we had a choice. We could just allow them to avoid accountability, or constituents could say, okay, you can hide from us, but you can't hide from accountability. This week, There are about 200 events in districts all over the country. You name some of them. We're looking at them in Maine, in North Carolina, in Georgia, in Alaska, in Montana. What are the states I just mentioned? Oh, they're the states that Democrats would need to win if they're going to retake the Senate next year. But it's not just Senate. We're also looking at the house, the 15 most vulnerable house members. On the Republican side, there are no shows. They're not going back to their district to talk to their constituents. But you know who's there. Their constituents holding empty chair town halls. Look, members of Congress, they wake up every morning thinking, how am I going to get reelected? And some really smart folks in the Republican caucus thought, I know what I'll do. I'll hide from my constituents. I don't think it's going to work out.

[Ali Velshi]

Not working. Ro Khanna is focusing on three Republican districts in California. Alexandria, Ocasio Cortez and Bernie Sanders are going into Republican areas. And in some of these people, some of them, when they were still showing up at the beginning, we showed one in rural western Texas. I mean, it doesn't matter because if you're an activist or you have a right to show up, too, you're still a constituent. But a lot of these people are not activists. They're not people who've thought about things. They're worried about their veterans rights. They're worried about their hospitals. They're worried about their NIH funding, They're worried about their Social Security, they're worried about their Medicare. These are regular Americans, many of whom voted for Donald Trump and Republicans.

[Rachel Maddow]

That's right. Look, I believe right now what we're seeing is not some kind of resurgence of folks who voted for Kamala Harris and are now showing up against again in town halls like this. What we're seeing are people that didn't vote, even people who voted for Donald Trump because they wanted lower prices of eggs or bread. And suddenly they're getting Project 2025. Suddenly they're seeing veterans fired in droves. Suddenly they're seeing Doge just ransack the federal government. They're saying, my God, this is not what I was looking for. There is backlash. There is historic levels of backlash right now. And if I have a member of Congress, Democratic side, I'm gonna be asking, my God, how do I take advantage of this? How do I funnel this energy in productive ways to limit harm? And if I'm a Republican, I'm gonna be thinking, how do I limit the harm to my own political career?

[Ali Velshi]

Ezra, good to see you. Thank you for joining us tonight. Ezra Levin is the founder of Indivisible. All right, coming up today in the Oval Office, Donald Trump attacked the federal who could possibly hold his administration in contempt? Chief Justice John Roberts, Republican senators, your move next. Senator Sheldon Whitehouse joins us.

[Paige DeSorbo]

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[Ali Velshi]

Stay connected with the MSNBC app bringing you breaking news and analysis anytime, anywhere.

[Paige DeSorbo]

Let's get up to speed.

[Ali Velshi]

We've got some breaking news right now. Watch your favorite shows live. There's a lot happening here in Washington.

[Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez]

As Donald Trump's second term starts to take shape.

[Ali Velshi]

Read live blogs and in depth essays and listen to coverage as it unfolds. Go beyond the what to understand the why. Download the app [e-mail] app stay up to date on the biggest issues of the day with the MSNBC Daily Newsletter. Each morning you'll get analysis by experts you trust, video highlights from your favorite.

[Rachel Maddow]

I do think it's worth being very clear eyed, very realistic about what's going on here.

[Ali Velshi]

Previews of our podcasts and documentaries, plus written perspectives from the newsmakers themselves, all sent directly to your inbox each morning. Get the best of MSNBC all in one place. Sign up for msnbc [e-mail] we've been reporting all week on Donald Trump playing chicken with the federal courts, culminating with Donald Trump's ordering the Supreme Court justice, Chief Justice John Roberts, to, quote, stop nationwide injunctions now before it's too late, end quote. Today, in a hearing to determine whether the Trump administration defied a federal court order by deporting Venezuelan migrants last weekend, Judge Boasberg took DOJ lawyers to task for, quote, intemperate and disres, disrespectful language, end quote. He continued, quote, I often tell my clerks before they go out in the world to practice law that the most valuable treasure they possess is their credibility. And I would just ask you to make sure that your team retains that lesson, end quote. Here's Donald Trump today. Mr. President, do you think you have the authority, the power to round up.

[Paige DeSorbo]

People, deport them, and then you're under.

[Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez]

No obligation to a court to show.

[Ali Velshi]

The evidence against them? Well, that's what the law says. That's what the law Sundays. But today, Trump's Justice Department lawyers admitted that, yes, in America, all people, even non citizens, all people in America have rights to Due process. Judge Boasberg ended the hearing without ruling on whether he would extend his temporary restraining order. The judge is also considering whether to issue a formal finding that the Trump administration violated that order. Joining us now is Rhode Island Senator Sheldon Whitehouse, a member of the Senate Judiciary Committee. Senator, good to speak to you again in such short order. Let's just be clear about this. The Trump administration and the White House are making this seem like an overreaching. I think they called him a lunatic liberal judge is trying to control immigration policy in America and that that is not his responsibility. That's not at all what's happening here. This is a question about A, due process and B, whether a judicial order was or was not followed by the Trump administration.

[Sheldon Whitehouse]

Well, let's start with the radical lunatic left wing judge who was appointed by President Bush. That's how he originally got onto the court as a district court judge. I think what you're seeing here is the weak link in the chain mail of lies around Donald Trump is lawyers having to appear in court. And it's not just their credibility, it's actually their bar license that is at stake. And in this case, in the case about the EPA fund they're trying to seize in the original freeze case, in the case up in Boston about the deportation, what you're seeing over and over again are judges starting to call out misrepresentations by Trump lawyers. And that is a really powerful point to drive home. Because if you go into court and lie for Trump and it costs you your ticket to practice law, that's going to put a real break on some of the lies that are being told in court on behalf of Trump. And so we're now at the point in the process where the lies have been said and the courts are starting to drill down to get the facts. Yep. I think this actually changes the nature of the tenor of these Trump lawsuits in courtrooms. As lawyers go in realizing, oh, crap, if I lie to this federal judge, if I'm not honest and honorable with the other side, I've got a real problem with my career.

[Ali Velshi]

Because this Venezuelan deportation case is not complicated. The questions that the Judge Boasberg is asking, there are five questions. They're super specific. If I asked you about your travels, you'd be able to answer those questions yourself by looking at your phone. These are not specific. The lawyers are claiming that they didn't really understand that the judges order was an order because it wasn't a written order until later. Most prosecutors I've spoken to have said, I Think the nice way to call you to Describe this is B.S.

[Sheldon Whitehouse]

Yeah, it's utter B.S. and frankly, Boasberg is actually showing quite considerable restraint in dealing with sort of repeated contumacy by these lawyers. But like any good judge, he's building the case so that he has the facts in front of him and can make an ironclad decision about what should be done with lawyers who very likely have misrepresented facts to him to the court.

[Ali Velshi]

You make anything out of this Supreme Court warning to Justice Roberts that stop nationwide injunctions before it's too late. That's what Donald Trump said. Before it's too late. You have any clue as to what that's supposed to mean?

[Sheldon Whitehouse]

You know, I think that the key thing for me here anyway, is Justice Roberts making a very unusual, rare statement saying that when you disagree with the judge, you don't threaten them, you don't impeach them, you appeal them. And I think that's a strong sign that at the top of the judiciary system, he is getting enormous amounts of feedback from judges across the country saying, hey, this is out of control. You're going to have to step in and do something. You're the chief justice. So I view Roberts comment as being an expression of kind of solidarity from across the country and probably to a significant degree, outrage across the country from federal judges who really don't like being lied to and conned. You just don't do that with federal judges.

[Ali Velshi]

Yeah, the better do something or else might be a warning that's going the other way from the courts to the president to say, you better stop the nonsense or else. Senator, good to see you as always. Thank you. Thank you for joining us. Senator Sheldon Whitehouse. All right. New York Times columnist Nicholas Kristof went to the place where US Aid could actually mean, actually is meaning the difference between life and death. He joins us next in his latest column. Our next guest, Nicholas Kristof, who recently returned from South Sudan, lays bare the cruelty of the cuts made inside the US Agency for International Development by the Trump musk chainsaw and a warning. The images you're about to see and the words you're about to hear are disturbing. He writes, quote, the world's worst humanitarian crisis today is probably the web of famine, civil war, mass rape and other atrocities in Sudan, a nightmare that the United States has formally described as genocide. Famine is spreading corpses line some roads and the sons of Darfur genocide rapists are now raping the daughters of women who had been assaulted a generation ago. A generation ago, Americans were outraged by genocide and acted not always perfectly, but to provide aid and pressure that governments in ways that served lives. Now we're pulling back aid and largely silent about the world's worst humanitarian crisis. And that comes painfully close to complicity. End quote. Joining us now, Nicholas Kristof, opinion columnist for the New York Times. He previously received one of his two Pulitzer Prizes for his coverage of the Darfur genocide. Nicholas, it's good to see you again. I think it's important because you're one of the very few people who are in a position, there are people obviously at non governmental organizations who have done some of this, but you're in a, as a reporter, you're in a position to go out and say, actually the stuff that you maybe don't care about that are being cut by the US government because of what you think of as waste, fraud and abuse are actually killing people today.

[Sarah Godlowski]

Yeah, I mean, look, in the us, President Trump and Elon Musk are working at killing guardrails for democracy, killing institutions. In Europe, they're working at killing NATO, maybe killing Ukraine. But in, in really poor countries, I mean, what they're doing is actually killing kids. Elon Musk had said that no one has died because of the USAID shutdown. And you know, within an hour of my first reporting in South Sudan, I had the names of a 10 year old boy, an 8 year old girl who had died because the, their ARVs to support them, they have HIV to support them, had gone missing. They couldn't get them and, and both died. You know, what is it? What is a 10 year old orphan boy gonna do in, in Juba, South Sudan when he can't get ARVs? The answer is they die.

[Ali Velshi]

Let's talk about that. Antiretroviral drugs, hiv, political unrest, displacement, famine, starvation. These to a lot of Americans in the moment may seem like abstractions. They don't know what USAID really does. But that combination of stuff, whether it's in South Sudan or Sudan or lots of places in the world, they matter in ways that are very hard to map out for people, but they matter, they influence us. Not just because these are our brothers and sisters around the world, but because that sort of instability or health instability gets to us eventually.

[Sarah Godlowski]

You know, I mean, when I write about these all the time, I get pushback from people who say, look, we have urgent needs at home. Years ago Tom delay said, you know, you're putting Ghana over grandma. And you know, absolutely, we have to be careful in how we allocate resources. We have real needs at home. I would make the point that in this case, President Trump seems to be eager to cut aid funding to fund a tax cut, you know, almost half of the benefit of which goes to the top 5%. But, you know, at the end of the day, we have values at stake. We those, those kids who were dying because of the dismantling of AIDS programs. The of that is $0.12 per person per day. So I think that Americans might actually find that a pretty good expense and, you know, a real ethical sense of mission there. But even if you have antifreeze running in your veins and you don't care about saving lives, then, you know, as you suggest, we also have interests at stake. USAID was started by President Kennedy in 1961 to advance American interests. And it does that. This is we confront China not only with aircraft carriers but also with aid programs. And, you know, we protect ourselves from Ebola and avian flu in part by global health surveillance programs in usaid.

[Ali Velshi]

You have a lot of imagery and a lot of a lot more stories to tell. So I'm going to continue this conversation with you tomorrow morning. I appreciate you joining us. In his latest column, by the way, Nick, includes information on how you can help people affected in Sudan. We wanted to share that with you as well. You can visit mutualaidsudan.org Again, that's mutualaidsudan.org if you want to help. Nicholas Kristof, thank you for your important.

[Sarah Godlowski]

Thanks for sharing that.

[Ali Velshi]

We always do this. You always tell us stories that we otherwise don't get to. And thanks for helping us discuss it. The last thing you want to hear when you need your auto insurance most is a robot with countless irrelevant menu options. Which is why with USAA auto insurance, you'll get great service that is easy and reliable, all at the touch of a button. Get a quote today, restrictions applied.