← The Last Word with Lawrence O’Donnell
The Last Word with Lawrence O’Donnell
Ocasio-Cortez & Sanders rally against unpopular Musk
00:41:47
Tonight on The Last Word: Voters are fired up at town halls across the country. Also, a federal judge says details on Donald Trump’s deportation flights are “woefully insufficient.” Plus, the stock market falls again amid economic woes. And Democratic attorneys general sue over the gutting of the Department of Education. Nnamdi Egwuonwu, Rep. Kelly Morrison, Rebecca Cooke, Barbara McQuade, Mark Zandi, and Minnesota Attorney General Keith Ellison join Ali Velshi.
Loading summary
Transcript1 lines
- [00:00]
Ali Velshi
Hey guys, have you heard of Gold Belly? It's this amazing site where they ship the most iconic famous foods from restaurants across the country anywhere nationwide. I've never found a more perfect gift than food. They ship Chicago deep dish pizza, New York bagels, Maine lobster rolls, and even Ina Garten's famous cakes. So if you're looking for a gift for the food lover in your Life, head to goldbelly.com and get 20% off your first order with promo code gift. I've never felt like this before. It's like you just get me. I feel like my true self with you. Does that sound crazy? And it doesn't hurt that you're gorgeous. Okay, that's it. I'm taking you home with me. I mean, you can't find shoes this good just anywhere. Find a shoe for every u from brands you love like Birkenstock, Nike, Adidas and more at your DSW store or dsw.com now it's time for the Last Word with Ali Velshi, who's in for Lawrence O'Donnell. Good evening, Ali. You know how it works, right? If you're doing a show after someone you, you're watching their show, you're listening to their show and you're trying to figure out what's the right volume because you want to hear it properly, but you're also going over the final things in your own show. So I was, that was happening to me this evening and you were talking about transparency and how the White House had said that they are, they're, they're offering complete transparency and how that might be a bit confusing to people. And then you said complete transparency would be if jeans came in clear and nobody wears underwear anymore. And you know what? That landed. I understand complete transparency much better now. I gotta tell you, Ali, do not blame anybody on the Rachel Maddow show staff. That was a totally unauthorized ad lib on my part and I take complete responsibility for what I have done to your brain by putting that image there. I'm very thinking a lot about transparency. Thank you, my friend and your producers are safe. Rachel, have a good evening. Thanks, Ali. Well, we are watching a fired up rally in Arizona that's happening right now where Representative Alexandria Ocasio Cortez and Senator Bernie Sanders are continuing to speak out against the oligarchy and the very unpopular Elon Musk. We're going to show you some of this in just a moment. We're going to go there live. But first, Donald Trump might be discovering that he's got An Elon Musk problem. Today a federal judge dealt a huge defeat to Elon Musk's so called Department of Government efficiency barring barring it from accessing Social Security data from millions of Americans. U.S. district Judge Ellen Hollander In a 137 page ruling, a very detailed ruling, wrote that Elon Musk's team is, quote, essentially engaged in a fishing expedition at SSA in search of a fraud epidemic. Based on little more than suspicion, it has launched a search for the proverbial needle in the haystack without any concrete knowledge that the needle is actually in the haystack, end quote. The ruling continues, quote, defendants with so called experts on the Doge team never identified or articulated even a single reason for which the DOGE team needs unlimited access to SSA's entire record systems, thereby exposing personal, confidential, sensitive and private information that millions of Americans entrusted to their government. Indeed, the government has not even attempted to explain why a more tailored, measured, titrated approach is not suitable to the task. Instead, the government simply repeats its incantation of the need to modernize the system and uncover fraud. Its method of doing so is tantamount to hitting a fly with a sledgehammer, end quote. The temporary restraining order requires the team to delete any personally identifiable data that they may already have. Judge Hollander noted the irony of Trump's attempt to conceal the identities of Elon Musk's team. Quote, the defense does not appear to share a privacy concern for the millions of Americans whose SSA records were made available to the DOE Doge affiliates without their consent. Elon Musk's disregard for your personal data and American law appears to be breaking through with voters. The latest Fox News polls show 58% disapprove of the job that Elon Musk is doing at his so called Department of government efficiency. While 65% of registered voters fear not enough thought and planning has gone into Elon Musk's cuts. Now, despite Elon Musk being deeply unpopular with voters and a political liability, Donald Trump and his administration are not only not backing off Musk, they're eagerly working as volunteer salesmen for him. Here is the Commerce Secretary of the United States, Howard Lutnick, violating the Hatch act to try and make Elon Musk richer while he's on Fox. I think if you want to learn something on this show tonight, buy Tesla. It's unbelievable that this guy's stock is this cheap. It'll never be this cheap again. Is that an appliance salesman? One billionaire Trump cabinet member on Television trying to get you to make a fellow billionaire, the richest man in the world, get richer. So this is perhaps why thousands of people are there while Senator Bernie Sanders and Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio Cortez, who have named their tour Fighting the Oligarchy. That's why thousands of people are out there tonight listening to them in Tempe, Arizona. They held their first rally in Las Vegas this afternoon. Right now, they're holding a rally in Tempe, Arizona. Let's listen in. One of the things that inspired me to run for office for the first time is that when I saw Senator Sanders on television and I was, I was wiping tables down and saw the TV on and saying every person in this country deserves health care as a human right. And I know it made me feel, it made me feel almost for the first time that this isn't something that we should earn. This is something that should be afforded to all of us because we are human. Because we are human. And I just want to thank him. And so let's give him the most, the most earth shaking round of applause when we come out, everybody. Senator Bernie Sanders. Power to the people. Power to the people. Power to the people. I do. The people. I do. Thank you, Arizona. This is an unbelievable turnout and I think we got many thousands of people outside. And I'm a special especially delighted to be here tonight with Alexandria. You know, when Alexandria was a little girl, she helped her mom clean homes to make the money the family needed. And she is one of the members of Congress who has not forgotten where she came from. And Alexandria and I were in Las Vegas earlier today. Tomorrow we'll be in Colorado and then we're coming back to Tucson because we have a message for Mr. Trump. And that is we will not allow you to move this country into an oligarchy. We're not going to allow you and your friend Mr. Bus and the other billionaires to wreak havoc on the working families of this country. No, you're not going to destroy Social Security. You're not going to destroy Medicaid, you're not going to destroy the Veterans Administration. And I'll tell you what else you're not going to do. We're not going to let you undermine the democracy that men and women in this country have fought and died for. And every day, every single day, Trump and his friends are ignoring the Constitution of the United States of America. You know, when we were kids in elementary school, we read about American history and about how this government, our government, was formed and the Constitution was written I got news to you. Those guys way back in the 1790s were nobody's fools. They understood that in our Constitution and in our government, you had to have a separation of power so that no one person had it all. And they created an executive branch, a legislative branch, and a judiciary. And every day, Trump is trying to take power away from the Congress. He is trying to take power away from the judiciary. Unbelievably, when a court makes a decision, you can agree with it, you can disagree with it. Most of us thought that Citizens United decision was a horrible decision. Most of us thought that the decision to override Roe v. Wade was a terrible decision. But in our form of government, you don't impeach judges for writing a decision you disagree with. In our form of government, unless you are a coward. You don't sue the media because they report on things you don't like. You don't sue the Des Moines Register because they did a poll whose results you don't like. In the Democratic society, we understand that criticism and debate is what makes this country great. And unless you are a coward, like Trump is, you welcome that debate and that discussion. But it's not just oligarchy that we are going to fight. It's not just authoritarianism that we're going to fight. We will not accept a society today in which we have massive income and wealth inequalities, where the very rich have never done better while working families are struggling to put food on the table. And we're not. You know, I know we're in a hockey rink and you got guys playing defense, but they also play offense. And our offense is to remind us all and every person in this country we are the wealthiest nation in the history of this world. All right, we're going to continue to monitor this rally. Alexandria Ocasio Cortez and Senator Bernie Sanders are in Tempe, Arizona, at a remarkable rally with a lot of people in it. This. This is akin to these town halls that we've been seeing. Well, their idea is they've got this fight oligarchy thing, and they're going into place that voted Republican to try and rally people around the idea of stopping what Donald Trump and Elon Musk are doing. Now. We got a good friend of ours inside that rally right now. So we're going to Tempe, Arizona. NBC News political reporter. My colleague Namdi is there. Namdi, give me a sense of what's going on outside of what we can see. Looks like a pretty big crowd. And Bernie Sanders made a Reference to the fact that there are still people who couldn't get into it. Never mention in a million years. Yeah. Ali, you reference some of the other Democratic town hall events we're seeing. Let me tell you how this event differs. This event is much larger. It's eerily familiar to the campaign rallies we saw Vice President, former Vice President Kamala Harris and Governor Tim Walls hold last fall. Thousands of people here. This venue. This venue has a capacity of about 5,000 people, and it's completely full. There are people outside. We're talking about lines that wrapped around a parking deck. So you're seeing that similar degree of enthusiasm. And a lot of the people I talked to as they were coming in, they wanted to hear this message from Senator Sanders. They wanted to have a clear idea of exactly what it is that they should be doing in this moment, the best way to fight and resist these efforts. When I asked them if they had any expectations, they just wanted a game plan. They said it feels like Republicans are playing chess, and they want to know the best way to respond to those efforts. They're watching many of them express concern as Trump and Elon Musk move to reshape the sides of the federal government, dismantle agencies. We saw today that he moved forward with his effort to dismantle the Department of Education. And many of these voters just wanted a response. They described the current Democratic response so far as being too passive. Representative Alexandria Ocasio Cortez used the term brawling Democrats to refer to the types of Democratic representatives that these voters should be supporting. And I think that really describes how her and Senator Sanders want to characterize themselves in this moment as being on the offense, as responding directly to Trump's attacks, and is ginning up the base in hopes of potentially making this election issue in the upcoming midterms. Yeah, I mean, when he launched it, I talked to him several weeks ago when he first launched this, and he said he wants to go in there with the idea where there are special elections, where are there. Where there are votes. Coming up, he wants to encourage people to actually. To actually do something about this. And going into the lion's den. Remarkable rally tonight. Nandi, good to see you, my friend. As always, thank you for your great reporting. Nandi Iguana in for us in Tempe, Arizona. You heard that crowd, but it's not just Arizona. Town halls are packed across this country. Our next guest is the freshman congresswoman, Dr. Kelly Morrison. She had so many voters show up to her town hall tonight, she wasn't able to actually leave to get to the studio, to be on our show from the studio that we had arranged. So she's joining us now from the venue in Bloomington, Minnesota, because that's what you should do. You should stick to where your voters are. You're there to listen to them. Tell me what you're hearing, Tell me what, what they're saying to you, what you're hearing and how it's going. Well, Ali, thanks for having me on. That's a pretty inspirational scene in Arizona. I would say not quite as big here, but we had nearly 2,000 people come out tonight to voice their anger, their dismay, their frustration with what Trump, Vance and Elon Musk are doing to our government. People are scared. They are angry. They want to know what they can do. We met here tonight at one of our fantastic local public schools. You can see in the background we've got some math problems going on here. People don't want to gut public education. People don't want to gut Medicaid. People don't think that we should dismantle. The VA are scared and angry, and they're not going to have it. One of the things we talked about tonight is that they and we are not powerless, Ali. Our voices are our power right now. We need to share our stories. We need to organize. We need to focus our energy, I think right now on stopping this Republican budget. And there is a lot of energy and excitement to do that out there. Yeah. And you heard what Bernie Sanders and Alexander Ocasio Corsad, Cortez were talking about that we are not going to let you. It's not just a matter of you have agency and you're a voter and you should be involved. It's the message that's coming from them and you and others is stronger than that. It's that we have the power to stop this and we will stop you. That's exactly right. Ultimately, it's going to be on us, the American people, to stand up together and say that this will not stand. This is not what people voted for. Trump has done nothing to lower the costs for everyday Americans. All he is doing is destroying things. He's dismantling our social safety net. He's dismantling education. He's dismantling our scientific leadership. He's dismantling the alliances that we've relied on to prevent world war for 80 years. The American people don't want it. Ali, let me ask you about one of the things that Bernie Sanders just brought up and that you bring up, and I often like to talk to you because you're a medical doctor, and that's important in this context. But there's something else going on. Your third district in Minnesota is home to nearly 28. There are a lot of veterans in this country. And one of the things that we're supposed to do in this country because we ask people to stand up and put their lives on the line for our country, is that we'll take care of them afterwards. The cuts to the VA are resonating across this country and are motivating a lot of these town halls, that is for sure. And, Allie, you know, I'm the proud wife of an army combat veteran, and I have the utmost respect for people who put on the uniform to protect our country, put their lives on the line for the United States, and we have a contract with them, and that is that we will take care of them after they've served. So to see veterans disrespected the way that they are, they always have been by Donald Trump, but he has now fired more veterans than any administration in history. And of course, there was that memo that leaked that showed that they have much bigger plans. As many as 83,000 veterans. And remember, a third of our federal workforce are veterans. These are people who are continuing to choose to be public servants even after they've already served. They deserve our respect and they deserve the care and the resources that we promised them. I always appreciate the time you take. So I'm going to book you already now just to say that you and I need to continue to talk about the budget and the, the very dangerous cuts that are in there. But I always appreciate that you do make time to come on with us. Congresswoman Kelly Marson, thank you for joining us. Thanks so much, Ali. Well, the Republican Congressman Derek Van Orden of Wisconsin is dodging in person town halls, including one today in Eau Claire. But that didn't stop his constituents from showing up and demanding answers. Elon Musk proposes to cut tens of thousands of jobs from the Veterans Administration. My question is, how is that going to improve services to veterans? I'm a college student here, and I guess my question for Derek Van Orden is, will I have a future? My question for Mr. Van Orden is, where are you and how can your constituents reach you? All right, so as you can see, he's not there. The residents of Wisconsin's 3rd congressional district directed questions to an empty chair reserved for Congressman Van Orden. Our next guest is the Democrat, Rebecca Cook. She lost to Congressman Van orden by just two points in 2024. Last week, Rebecca Cook announced that she's running against van Orden in 2026 in Wisconsin's third district. And I, I hope he's going to show up for some meetings when you're running against him. This is quite something, Rebecca. It's just, it's. I mean, the Republicans who are not doing things, they're not showing up. People want to talk to their elected representatives and that is their right in America. Yeah, I mean, I think it's been an utter failure of leadership on Derek Van Orden's part. And that's part of the reason why I was getting into this race here in March and getting in early is I think that we have to really hold people like Derek Van Orden and this administration a and to hold his feet to the fire. And there's been, not just today, but a number of opportunities for Derek Van Orden to engage with his constituents and he's failed to do so. And that's a big part of the job of being a member of Congress is showing up and listening to people. And so, you know, we have, as you probably know, a very important Supreme Court race happening here on April 1st in our spring elections. And so it's all gas. No breaks until then. But I'm going to be hosting opportunities for people around this district to be able to have community conversations, to be talking about the things that Derek Van Orden is voting for and how it's impacting them. And the big, the big things that this administration has been doing that's been a real detriment to working families in this district. And it's very clear that the appetite is there. I want to just pop into Tempe, Arizona again, where Alexandria Ocasio Cortez and Bernie Sanders are going in. And I mean, this is a 5,000 person rally and there are apparently hundreds, if not thousands of people outside who didn't get in. I just spoke, as you heard, to Congresswoman Kelly Morrison and she had 2,000 people show up at a town hall. Representative Van Orden said he's not doing anymore. And I'm just going to read this to you. He said he'll hold a series of online zoom meetings to address constituent concerns. And this is why, quote, there's been a group of George Soros funded agitators going around the country disrupting town halls being held by Republicans, end quote. A group of George Soros funded agitators. I want to just use that opportunity to ask you who is showing up to these things and where are you right now because I want to just draw. You got cups and dishes, a little bit of a different backdrop than you might be in some of your interviews. So I just got done waitressing. I work at a restaurant in Eau Claire, Wisconsin. I grew up working class, and I'm still working class. I grew up on a dairy farm in this district. And I think to Derek Van Orden's point, he's not showing up to listen to working families. The people that are showing up at these town halls are people that work regular jobs like I do. They're waitresses, they're small business owners, they're union workers, they're farmers. And they're looking for answers, and he's not providing them. And so, you know, I think that we need to continue to recruit regular people off the sidelines that understand what working families are struggling with and that are going to fight, like how to expand the middle class. And I think that that's our duty to be doing right now. And people are fearful with a lot of the things that are happening and they're screwing with people's lives. And I think it's an opportunity for us as Democrats to really show solidarity and leadership and to get out there and hold these folks accountable. How much money did you take from George Soros last year? Zero. Thank you. I don't know if you saw the news. You know, he's been taking money from Elon Musk in the same way Elon Musk has been dumping money into our Supreme Court race here in Wisconsin. And, you know, I'm, I'm backed by grassroots support. If you're interested in supporting me, you can go to cookforwisconsin.com to learn more about my background and platform and support this campaign. Thank you so much for being with us tonight. We appreciate that. Rebecca Cook is a Democratic candidate, candidate for Congress in Wisconsin's third Congressional District. I want to go back to Arizona. Tempe. Arizona Senator Bernie Sanders is speaking to a very fired up crowd of thousands who are paying 40, 50% of their limited incomes for housing. That's living paycheck to paycheck. Living paycheck to paycheck is being a single mom and having to figure out how you come up with $20,000 a year for child care so that you can go to work and support your kids. Living paycheck to paycheck is wanting to buy good quality food for your kids, but going to the grocery store and seeing the prices are sky high paid. Living paycheck to paycheck is getting sick and wondering whether or not you can afford to go to the doctor. Wondering whether or not you could take your kids to the doctor. That's living paycheck to paycheck. Living paycheck to paycheck is not having the money to pay off your credit card debt and month after month paying 20, 30% interest rates on that credit card. You tell me now, what did I miss? What is living paycheck to paycheck about? Say that again. She got paid yesterday. She's got no money today. You paid off your bills. All right, what else? Hey guys, have you heard of Gold Belly? It's this amazing site where they ship the most iconic famous foods from restaurants across the country, anywhere nationwide. I've never found a more perfect gift than food. They ship Chicago deep dish pizza, New York bagels, Maine lobster rolls, and even Ina Garten's famous cakes. So if you're looking for a gift for the food lover in your Life, head to goldbelly.com and get 20% off your first order with promo code gift at Designer Shoe Warehouse. We believe that shoes are an important part of, well, everything from first steps to first dates, from all nighters to all time personal bests. From building pillow forts to building a life for all the big and small moments that make up your whole world. DSW is there and we've got just the shoes. Find a shoe for every you from brands you love at brag worthy prices at your DSW store or DSW.com this is an ad by BetterHelp. Let's talk numbers in person. Therapy can cost anywhere from $100 to $250 per session, which adds up. But with BetterHelp online therapy, you can save on average up to 50% per session. Therapy should feel accessible, not like a luxury. With over 30,000 therapists, BetterHelp has served over 5 million people globally and helps you fit therapy into your busy life. Your well being is worth it. Visit betterhelp.com today to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp. H E L P. All right. Tonight, Donald Trump is once again attacking a federal judge who ruled against him and the conservative Chief justice of the Supreme Court, John Roberts. Stop nationwide injunctions now before it's too late. He threatened on Truth Social. If Justice Roberts and the United States Supreme Court do not fix this toxic and unprecedented situation immediately, our country is in very serious trouble. Those are Donald Trump's words. Trump is now giving orders directly to the Supreme Court and I don't know, maybe threatening them. What does he mean before it's too late? The federal judge, James Boasberg, is not backing down from his pursuit of whether the Trump administration defied his order to turn back flights of more than 200 Venezuelan migrants this weekend. And that's coming to a head today. Judge Boasberg found the Trump administration's late response to, to his basic questions about the flights evading his obligations, writing this is woefully insufficient. The judge then threw down the gauntlet, writing, this court will require defendants to show cause why they did not violate the court's temporary restraining orders. Now a show cause order starts a process that could lead to contempt sanctions. Judge Boasberg gave the Trump administration until 10am tomorrow to explain whether they did or didn't violate his order. Joining us now is Barbara McQuaid, former United States attorney and a law professor at the University of Michigan Law School. She's an MSNBC legal analyst. And exactly the person you need to understand what's at stake here. Because, Barbara, the White House is saying the judge does not have authority over immigration matters. That's not what this is about. The judge is asking questions about. He gave an order to pause whatever was going on until they could examine this more. And the White House may or may not have listened to that order. That's a legal matter. That's not an immigration matter. Yeah, that's right. And they're even wrong in the first instance because the invocation of the Alien Enemy act is subject to judicial review. So they're wrong even about that. But you're right that this current dispute is about whether the government just blew off his order when Judge Boasberg said no more migrants should be deported and if there are planes in the air, turn them around. And he's tried to get straight answers as to whether the government complied with that order. And to date, he hasn't. He keeps extending by a day or so the deadline to provide this information. But they've said everything from, well, you didn't say that in your written order. You only said that in your oral order. So we didn't think that counted. And when he said, yes, it did count. Tell me again exactly what happened. They've started tossing around. We might, we're not saying we will, but we might invoke the state secrets privilege. So they're doing everything but answer his questions. And his questions are five very simple questions. When the plane took off, where it took off from, when it left US Airspace, where it stopped. Like basic stuff. It's not, it's not complicated high end stuff that they're asking for. But tell me what you make of the Donald Trump post to John Roberts, stop nationwide injunctions now before it's too late. I don't know what to make of that. Well, the before it's too late, I really don't know what that is. Some sort of ultimatum or threat or prediction of a terrible future. But you know, this idea of nationwide injunctions is not something new. We've seen it for the history of the United States. And in fact, during the Biden administration when we had nationwide injunctions against the use of mifepristone or against student loans, nobody seemed to have a problem with it then. And the alternative is just not workable. Imagine a scenario where there's a legal challenge to something like the deportation of people under this executive order and it's blocked in Washington, D.C. but you can fly migrants out of Texas or out of Louisiana. Of course it's a nationwide injunction because it's applying to the US Government. And so I think that's just a non starter. But it seems like so much of what the Trump administration is doing is simply trying to get the public look to be outraged. Barbara McQuaid, I'm glad we had you here to clear some of this up because it gets more and more complicated every day. Barbara McQuade, thank you so much for joining us. Well, another unwelcome first of the second Trump administration. This one could affect your job and your family's financial future. I'll tell you about it next. All right. Another unwelcome first in the Trump 2.0 era. We, the people who make up the workers, the producers and the consumers in the United States are now officially on Recession Watch. Prominent longtime economic forecaster UCLA Anderson has issued its first ever Recession Watch. It says Trump policies, if fully enacted, promise a recession, end quote. CNBC summarizes the UCLA Anderson forecast said the reductions of the workforce from the administration's immigration policies could create labor shortages. Tariffs will raise prices and could lead to a contraction in the manufacturing sector, while changes to federal spending will reduce employment for government workers and private contractors, end quote. That's not high level economics, by the way. That's anybody could come up with that. A new Fox poll shows that voters are very worried about the economy under Trump, even more so than at the end of last year. 79% this is a Fox News poll. 79% of respondents have a negative view of the US economy. 71% expect a recession this year, including half of Republicans. And yes, most voters do blame Trump. 58% disapprove of his handling of inflation, 56% disapprove of his handling of the economy. Over overall, the margin of error for these polls is 3.1 percentage points. Joining us now is Mark Zandi, chief economist for Moody's Analytics. Mark, my old friend, thank you for being with us. Let's talk about this. Recessions happen, and sometimes they happen for the most natural of reasons, and sometimes they are provoked by something. Generally it's not this. It's not a trade war and crazy economic policies that are likely to cause inflation and cause people to slow down. Yeah, this is a recession by design. You know, by due to economic policy. I think UCLA kind of laid it out kind of nicely. It's the, I put at the top of the list, though, Ali, the global trade war that's mounting. And of course, that's just going to intensify here over the next couple, three, four weeks. And then the Doge cuts to government jobs and funding. And you've got the immigration policy. And that's even before we get to fiscal policy, you know, tax, spending policy, lots of changes coming there and the treasury debt limit. So there's a lot of balls in the air. It's creating a lot of angst, uncertainty. Sentiment is very poor. You can see it in consumer sentiment surveys. You can see it in business surveys. Obviously, you can see it in the stock market. So the economy's on edge. So really depends on what the president does or does not do here over the course of the next few weeks, few months. You talk about consumer sentiment. It was a Michigan consumer sentiment Report. It's sort of the gold standard of consumer sentiment reports. That's the magic in the American economy, right? When the consumer feels strong, the economy generally is okay. When the consumer becomes uncertain, it has ripple effects all through the economy. And again, you might want tariffs and there might be a reason to impose tariffs in a particular sector. But the on again, off again, erratic, chaotic nature of a whole lot of these policies is what's causing people to sort of close in on themselves a little bit, perhaps. Yeah, totally. Generally, consumer sentiment reflects the economy, reflects unemployment, inflation. But at times the causality shifts and the sentiment drives spending decisions. And ultimately it's a cause of recession. Recession is a loss of faith. It's a loss of faith by consumers that they'll hold on to their jobs and business people that they'll be able to sell whatever it is they produce. So if we lose that and it feels like we're kind of right on the edge of that happening, you know, recession becomes much more likely now. You know, I don't want to be overly alarmist. And the president can turn this thing around pretty fast. And, you know, he is, you know, shown in the past that he can pivot. And he pivots very quickly and declares victory and moves on. So I think it's, you know, very possible. And I'm, I'm hope hopeful and, you know, expect that to happen. But if it doesn't, then, yeah, I think we should brace for impact. We're going in. Yeah, you should. You can like Donald Trump and his policies or not, but none of us are wishing for a recession because millions of people get affected by that. So I hope, I hope you're right that things turn around. But it's always good to see you, Mark. Thank you as always. Chief economist for Moody's analytics programming note, the former FTC commissioner Lena Khan will join me on my show Velshi this weekend. I'm eager to hear what she has to say about the economy and, of course, the Trump firing of the Democratic members of the Federal Trade Commission. All right, coming up, how Elon Musk's chainsaw is being felt by people in states across the country. The Minnesota Attorney General, Keith Ellison just wrapped up a community impact hearing. He'll join us next. Hey, guys, have you heard of Gold Belly? It's this amazing site where they ship the most iconic famous foods from restaurants across the country anywhere nationwide. I've never found a more perfect gift than food. They ship Chicago deep dish pizza, New York bagels, Maine lobster rolls, and even Ina Garten's famous cakes. So if you're looking for a gift for the food lover in your Life, head to goldbelly.com and get 20% off your first order with promo code gift. I've never felt like this before. It's like you just get me. I feel like my true self with you. Does that sound crazy? And it doesn't hurt that you're gorgeous. Okay, that's it. I'm taking you home with me. I mean, you can't find shoes this good just anywhere. Find a shoe for every you from brands you love like Birkenstock, Nike, Adidas and more at your DSW store or DSW dot com. This is an ad by BetterHelp. Let's talk numbers in person. Therapy can cost anywhere from 100 to $250 per session, which adds up. But with BetterHelp online therapy, you can save on average up to 50% per session. Therapy should feel accessible, not like a luxury. With over 30,000 therapists, BetterHelp has served over 5 million people globally and helps you fit therapy into your busy life. Your well being is worth it. Visit betterhelp.com today to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp H-E-L-P.com the lawsuits that we are filing really are not about partisanship. They're about the rule of law. The fact of the matter is, is that attacks on our Constitution and our right to representative government are not acceptable and we will not tolerate it. They cannot tear down institutions like the Department of Education, which is designed to help educate our families and our children. That was Minnesota Attorney General Keith Ellison tonight at a community impact meeting with three other Democratic attorneys general who have sued the Trump administration over his dismantling of the Department of Education. Tonight's meeting was a chance for Minnesota voters to learn how the cuts that Elon Musk and Doge are pursuing are going to hurt them in their schools and their hospitals, but also how their states are fighting back. And it comes just one day after the Attorney general, Keith Ellison and fellow state attorneys general won a victory in which a federal judge has now forced the government to reinstate nearly 25,000 probationary federal employees. Democratic attorneys general have also sued the Trump and the Trump and the Doge, the Trump administration and Dogecoin for freezing roughly $3 trillion in state funding. A federal judge issued an injunction to stop Trump in that case as well. Tonight, the attorneys general got to hear from voters about the hardship that Trump and Musk are causing them. As someone who was born with disabilities, I've seen time and time again that whenever our communities are short in their budgets, people with disabilities and senior services are cut first. Proposed federal Medicaid cuts could remove up to $880 billion from the program over the next decade, with Minnesota potentially losing up to $1.6 billion in 2027 alone. These reductions would further strain our health care and social services systems. Myself, my family, the disability justice movement in Minnesota and the east side will not tolerate this much longer. Joining us now is the Minnesota Attorney General, Keith Ellison. Attorney General, good to see you again. You and I have talked since the election and about the things that you as attorneys general will do. But now we're talking about this woman who said we will not take this for much longer. We have a rally going on in Tempe, Arizona with Bernie Sanders and Alexandria Ocasio Cortez, and they're saying thing we're not going to Let you tear down these government institutions. We're not going to do that. There's a lot of energy behind this now. There's a ton of injury of energy. People have coming together. They're raising their voices. We had well over a thousand people, maybe we had about 1300. Wow. And people were mad. And they were explaining all the ways that these horrible executive orders are hurting them and their families. We have heard from people who are veterans. We heard from people in the disability community. We heard from people who were summarily fired as federal workers. And they are getting hot. And I believe that when they say they will not take it much longer. And for instance, you and these other attorney generals had the success in having. And we were just watching Bernie Sanders is still continuing in Tempe, Arizona. You had a success in getting the government to reinstate some of these probationary workers. That's real. So once they realize that their voices and their agitation and their ability to fight back has an outlet through perhaps people like you, their attorneys general, their governors, their members of Congress, it's just going to activate more people. Absolutely. People are getting encouraged by the courage that they're seeing other people demonstrate. And let me tell you, I had folks, Matt Plotkin from New Jersey, Tish James, Chris Mays, Kwame Raul, coming from all different states. We started our attorney general roadshow in Arizona. We're continuing in Minnesota, but now we're moving on to Oregon and we're moving on to Colorado. We got plans. We're gonna keep on talking to the people and we're gonna keep on litigating and bringing these issues forth, not only in the courtroom, but also in the court of public opinion. I know you've been busy today, so I don't know if you saw this, but Donald Trump posted on Truth Social what appears to be a warning to Chief Justice Roberts to stop. He says stop the nationwide injunction before it's too late. He said if Justice Roberts and the United States Supreme Court do not fix this toxic and unprecedented situation immediately, our country is in very serious trouble. First of all, there's nothing toxic and weird about nationwide injunctions. In most cases, injunctions having to do with federal government would be nationwide. But what do you think he means before it's too late? I think he's threatening the court. I think that, look, he has threatened the press. I mean, he sued abc, he's kicked AAP out because they won't use his silly lingo. He's threatening universities, he's threatened federal workers. And now he's threatening the courts. This is the stuff of dictatorship. There's no other way to put it. He's trying to tear down every institution that Americans rely on. When you start threatening judges and you start telling the chief judge what he better not, what he better do, that's dangerous stuff, particularly after Justice Roberts just said the other day, hey, look, he took the unprecedented step of going to call out the president to say, you cannot threaten impeachment and all this stuff, if you don't like the process, if you don't like a ruling, appeal it. That is the way we do things for the last 200 years in America. That was an extraordinary step. And it's absolutely crazy that he would have to do it, but I'm glad that he did. Minnesota Attorney General Keith Ellison, always a pleasure. Pleasure to talk to you. Thanks for joining us tonight. We always appreciate it. Always. Thank you. All right. Have a good one. We'll be right back. We have had a great show tonight. I'm not in the business of raising money for political candidates of any political stripe, but Rebecca Cook, who is running in Wisconsin, did mention her website. And then I started getting social media and emails from people saying that her website appears to be down. I just went to it myself and it's actually working now. So I don't know whether it went down for a little while or what happened, but it does seem to be back up and online. That's tonight's last word. Thanks for being with us. I'll see you tomorrow. As President Donald Trump returns to the White House, what will the first 100 days of the presidency bring? Follow along as his agenda takes shape with the new MSNBC newsletter, Trump's first 100 days, weekly updates sent straight to your inbox, and expert insight on the key issues and figures defining this second term. We're seeing a really radical effort to change, change the American system of government. Sign up for Trump's first 100 days@msnbc.com TRUMP100.