Lawrence O'Donnell (2:30)

Senator Schiff is going to be our guest tonight from Los Angeles where he's being briefed by firefighters and FEMA and surveying damage. We'll speak to him in just a moment. But earlier today, my colleague Ellison Barber, talked to a man in Altadena named Felipe, whose home was spared, but his neighbors lost everything. He described waking up in the middle of the night earlier this week as the fires began.

Ali Belshee (2:52)

About 2 o'clock in the morning, I had a garden hose hooked up to the front of the house. It's about 150 foot garden hose. And I was spraying the house.

Lawrence O'Donnell (3:03)

I first started spraying our house.

Ali Belshee (3:04)

I was watering the sidewalks, the grass. And then literally I was trying as far as the hose could reach, as far as I can help my neighbors. And my heart and my soul goes out to them. Cause we just, they lost so much. They've always been there for me and my family since my kids were born. They always come over and make sure we're all right at their birthdays, Christmas, Thanksgiving, even though by name. They're not family. They're in our hearts.

Lawrence O'Donnell (3:40)

Joining us now is our NBC correspondent, Alison Barber, still in Altadena. I've been watching all day. Fires have been breaking out as you've been covering the story. What's the situation now also?

Alison Barber (3:52)

Yeah, I mean, Ali, you know, it's really hard to wrap your head around some of what is happening here. And a lot of residents have been understandably frustrated that they see images on tv, they see us reporters out in areas where there's a lot of debris and they think, okay, if they're in that area, it probably is safe. Why can't we go in there? I want to show you some of why the fire officials and officials in la, this county and others are saying, hey, stay away for now still. So this crew, they've been fighting out this fire. We have been in this area for the last few hours. They just shut their water off. They're about to crank it to put it back again. They are dealing with numerous hotspots of fires reigniting in this building. And this is about two long New York blocks away from another building where we saw the exact same thing happen in the last few hours. So these are buildings where when we were here four or five hours ago, late in the afternoon, it looked like they were debris. It looked like in terms of fire and immediate threat to other properties and or people, it looked like that was gone and that it was going to be in a cleanup position. And very quickly, in the last few hours, we've seen it's not the case. And it's because a lot of these buildings, and this is one example, have basements. They have other layers, levels of floors underneath the debris. And inside of that, there can be these hot spots, fires that you can't see, or embers that are still burning that reignite and get bigger and mean and make the entire structure itself unsafe. So come look over here. This team on this other side fighting the same thing. Because again, they just have inside of here all of these different pockets of fires that are reigniting. Four, five hours ago, late in the afternoon when we were here, I would have told you this building and one that is down this same street in kind of the main area, the main street area of Altadena, that those fires had been put out and those buildings were piles of debris. I would have probably walked in some of them if I was someone walking in this community. And if that was property I owned to say, okay, let's start cleaning it up, I would have been wrong. Because underneath this building, underneath that building, there were still hot hot spots, fires inside of the basement, underneath the stairwell that were still burning. And they have reignited tonight. And now you have all of these teams out here working to put them out. One other thing I will tell you, and it's hard to see because it's so dark, but next to this stop sign, there is a fire hydrant. I actually have a flashlight, so I can show it to you a little. Let me flip this way. Ally. Sorry. See that right there? So there's a fire hydrant. We saw this earlier down the way. The firefighters aren't using it. The Stryker team that's here right now, and that's because there's not enough water, not enough pressure in these fire hydrants for them to actually use it to deal with these hot spots that are reigniting. So when they're telling people in this community, if you're under a mandatory evacuation order, you still can't come in. And when they're also saying you can't come in even during the day to take a look at some of it. This right here, they say is why. Because a lot of these buildings, they're not actually sure if they're safe yet. They're not in touch entirely clear. Because so many of these buildings have basements and multiple levels and layers where this can happen again and again. Hot spots underneath them that reignite and are essentially death traps. If you were to walk into here and step on an area where there could be this flame. And, I mean, I could feel the heat even radiating from here. Ali. But again, I was here four or five hours ago, walking down this street, walking past these buildings, didn't notice a thing, didn't feel the heat. I didn't see anything smoldering in these buildings. And I would have been really wrong had I walked back into this area. I hear an alert going on on my phone right now, but this is an area that is still under a mandatory evacuation order. Over 150,000 people still under mandatory evacuation orders. But you can see here there's still so much work to be done. And these teams, they are using tankers to get water to try and put these out. That, though, takes time. And because there are so many different pockets of fires, small hotspots as well as bigger flames, they say if this was just one fire in a neighborhood, we would flood all of our resources here. But we can't do that because of the scale of these fires. And all of that makes putting something out like this a lot harder and take a lot longer.

Lawrence O'Donnell (7:49)

It's hard to understand the concept of containment. This is the Eaton fire. There's a lot of rural and suburban areas around Los Angeles, but you're not in one. This is the city. You are in an area that is essentially an urban area, and there are multiple building fires. So this isn't the same as a forest fire. They're very hard to fight as well. But it's not that helicopters can just fly over you and. And drop water. A building is on fire and the firefighters have to come in and treat it as. It's. As if it's one fire. And yet, as you're describing, they're all over you.

Alison Barber (8:21)

Right? And. And what's also stunning about it is you see something like this, this one on fire, and if we turn a little this way, you'll see the building kind of right next to it looks like it's totally fine in terms of fire. It looks like it was almost jumped over. But on the other side, on the other half of that street, on this same avenue, the building that's down there on the left hand, about two long blocks away, that building has hot spots. It's completely destroyed, and inside of it, it is smoldering yet again. So that also adds to the problem of how do you contain something in an area like this when all of it isn't burning? It's one here burning. Big gap of things that are okay, then more things burning, all of it. Layers and layers of complications that fire teams have to deal with, in addition to them being stretched so thin and telling us in all of these different spots that they're not able to access water or the water pressure in the way that they would if there was just one fire in the area.

Lawrence O'Donnell (9:18)

Ali Alison, I know you've been in a lot of dangerous places in your life and you know how to handle yourself, but please stay safe. Fires are really, really hard because of everything you've just been describing. They pop up around you. So make sure you and your team stay safe while helping us get the information that our viewers need. Allison Barber is in Altadena, California. Of course, our team will continue our coverage across California for as long as this going on. The California senator Adam Schiff is going to join us with the latest on the firefighting and the recovery effort in just a moment. But first, the historic news day that America is about to have its first convicted felon president. After Donald Trump's repeated appeals to stop his criminal sentencing, including to the Supreme Court this week, all failed. Donald Trump was sentenced for 34 felony counts related to paying off Stormy Daniels to help his 2016 campaign. Trump and his lawyer, Todd Blanch connected remotely to the remote Manhattan courtroom from Florida, where Judge Juan Marchon emphasized to Trump how he arrived at this moment a unanimous jury of 12 ordinary New Yorkers.

Ali Belshee (10:20)

The protections afforded the Office of the President are not a mitigating factor. They do not reduce the seriousness of the crime or justify its commission in any way. The protections are, however, a legal mandate which, pursuant to the rule of law, this court must respect and follow. However, despite the extraordinary breadth of those protections, one power they do not provide.

Lawrence O'Donnell (10:54)

Is the power to erase a jury verdict. One power they do not provide is the power to erase a jury verdict. Because of the protections of the presidency, however, Marshan sentenced Trump to unconditional discharge. It's a rare legal maneuver, imposing no criminal penalties. Marshan noted that this was the only lawful sentence that he could impose. The assistant district attorney, Joshua Steinglass, denounced Trump's unrelenting and unsubstantiated attacks on prosecutors, the judge, their families, witnesses, jurors, and other trial participants.

Ali Belshee (11:29)

Far from expressing any kind of remorse for his criminal conduct, the defendant has purposefully bred disdain for our judicial institutions.

Lawrence O'Donnell (11:40)

And the rule of law. And he's done this to serve his.

Ali Belshee (11:44)

Own ends and to encourage others to reject the jury verdict that he finds so distasteful.

Lawrence O'Donnell (11:52)

Joining us now is the Democratic Senator Adam Schiff of California He's a former chairman of the House Intelligence Committee. He served on the January 6 committee. He was also the lead impeachment manager for the first impeachment trial of Donald Trump. But he's doing double duty for us tonight, not just in those roles, but as a senator from California. So, Senator, I do want to start with you on what's going on in California, what you've seen. I don't live in California, and I've got dozens of friends who have lost their homes or are evacuated and not there. I'm sure that is many multiples for you and your constituents.

Ali Belshee (12:32)

Really is. I've never seen anything like it. And I unfortunately have all too much experience with fire in and around the Los Angeles area. My district, prior to the US Senate, abutted the Angeles Forest. We've had devastating fires, but nothing like this. Usually in these fires, you'll see a house lost here, one lost down the street. It's very fortuitous, idiosyncratic, which houses are taken and which remain standing. But here, it's whole neighborhoods that are gone. People have lost their home, they've lost their school, they've lost their church or their synagogue, they've lost their public library, they lost their grocery store. It's all gone. And the scope of it is just breathtaking. It's in more than one part of Southern California. I was out to the Palisades, I've been out to Altadena. And very similar in both respects. Just the scale of the destruction, it looks like a war zone. It's going to take a long time to rebuild. I was in the Civic center in Pasadena serving meals to people who are without a basis to provide for themselves right now. And I tell you, as heartbreaking as it is talking to some of the folks who've lost everything, they're pretty amazing. Many expressed to me gratitude for just being alive, the determination to rebuild. And I have to say, just talking to them was uplifting, considering what they've been through.

Lawrence O'Donnell (14:03)

We have had a strong federal response. The president has said that the federal government will be very, very involved in this. What's your sense of what is next needed right now? There are a lot of problems, not just the recovery, the, the rebuilding. There are massive insurance issues that have been going on in, in California. We've been covering it for the last few years. A lot of public insurers pulling back on this stuff, the California Fair Plan. Now, people are worried that that was the insurer of last resort. But this is such a big loss that will people actually get their money. These are. There are people worried about their today and tomorrow and then their, their, their next weeks and months.

Ali Belshee (14:39)

That's absolutely right. And first of all, you're right about the administration. They moved really quickly here almost immediately declaring a major disaster, then telling Californians that they were going to match 100% of the costs of responding to these fires instead of some lower match, which is also pretty extraordinary. So they've been great. The administration has been great, but the need is just overwhelming. So many people were thrown off their insurance prior to this fire. One of my own staff who lost their home in this blaze got a notice, I think a month ago, that their insurance was being canceled. But, but for, fortunately enough, it's not canceled until about a week from now.

Lawrence O'Donnell (15:25)

Wow.

Ali Belshee (15:25)

But it's not so fortunate and lost everything and have little basis to recover. So they're going to need lots of help. SBA administrator Guzman was out in the district that was so hard hit in Altadena today, talking to the residents about what the SBA can do. The FEMA administrator, I was with her yesterday talking with the residents about what FEMA can do. We're going to fight to bring those resources back so that people can quickly rebuild. The most immediate thing a lot of these residents want to know, though, in talking to folks at the shelter is does their home still stand? Don't know the status of their home.

Lawrence O'Donnell (16:10)

Senator, I'm going to shift with you for a moment, because you are a US Senator, you got to handle a few things at once. We have the, the, the conviction, the sentencing of Donald Trump. It's a, you're a lawyer. It's a technical matter. It does mean that he is now a convicted felon. It's the first time we will have a convicted felon as the President of the United States. I wanted to draw your attention to what the ADA said about the harm that Donald Trump and his conduct since this conviction have had on the judicial system, the judiciary, faith in the judiciary. This is not a convicted felon who has accepted responsibility for what he has done. It's quite the opposite. He continues to undermine the judicial system and if not for the sentencing today, would have continued to do so. He will probably still try and get this conviction vacated and other matters that he's involved in. This is something we all also have to rebuild the trust and faith in our judiciary.

Ali Belshee (17:04)

Well, that's absolutely right. And you know, what I had been hoping is that the judge would sentence the president to whatever any other similarly situated felon would receive by way of sentence. Now, that did not happen. And it didn't happen for a reason that the judge properly articulated, which is this man, this now convicted felon, is going to be the President of the United States. And legally, he cannot encumber that office with, for example, example, detention. So normally, I would think that a defendant who doesn't accept responsibility, who doesn't make restitution, but rather continues to attack the justice system, attack the prosecutors or the witnesses, you know, they might end up getting time in a case like this, even where if they accepted some responsibility, they would not. So, look, he escaped, you know, a fair sentence that others would have received, but nevertheless, it is significant that he is now forever branded a convicted felon. He goes into his second term as a convicted felon, the first felon to serve as President of the United States. You can see how upset the President is about this because it is a, you know, it is quite a statement that the justice system makes when it brands you a felon and he will forever be branded a felon.

Lawrence O'Donnell (18:32)

There are a number of people who are asking or talking to or about whether President Biden should issue preemptive pardons in the cases of some. Some Americans. Your name's been brought up. You, you said you don't like that idea. Does that mean for you it doesn't make sense, or you don't like the idea of preemptive pardons?

Ali Belshee (18:50)

I don't like the idea generally of preemptive pardons. I don't want to see a precedent where every president on their way out of office grants a broad category of pardons, maybe for people in their administration or people in their party or people aligned with their view. Because I think if that becomes the new norm, it tells to people coming into an administration that they don't need to worry about where the line is in terms of whether they're committing criminal acts or not, because they can expect a pardon on the way out the door. So I'm very concerned about the. The broad prospect of pardons. But I also understand where the President is coming from here because his successor is threatening to persecute people who were doing their jobs properly, holding him to account. People like Jack Smith, people like the members of the January 6th Committee and others. I'm most concerned, frankly, about the witnesses before the January 6 committee who, unlike myself, don't have the speech and debate clause to protect them. So I understand where Joe Biden is coming from.

Lawrence O'Donnell (19:52)

Also, I want to ask you one other thing. We're 10 days away from this new administration. This Biden Harris administration has been strongly supportive of, as they are in every state, of the tragedy that's going on in California. Are you at least, are you worried at all about that? There's been a lot of nonsense on the right about the reasons for these fires and how they should be treated. Are you worried about this response becoming politicized?

Ali Belshee (20:20)

Yes, I am worried about it. And frankly, it has already become politicized. You know, I remember a time, because it wasn't that long ago, where you waited until the fires were out, you waited until lives were saved and people were safe before the political attacks began. But I guess we are way past those quaint days. And I do have concern that what happens when the new administration comes into town, whether they're going to seek to punish blue states, reward red states. Because I'll tell you this, I've been in Congress a long time. Whether it was a disaster affecting Texas or Florida or New Jersey or New Hampshire didn't matter to me. There's a red state or blue state. I was there for them, voting to support aid for them. They were not Democrats or Republicans. To me, they were all Americans. I hope to hell that's the view of the next president, United States. It really needs to be. We're in this together, particularly when we're facing a natural disaster like the tragedy being visited on Southern California right now.

Lawrence O'Donnell (21:20)

And one in which whatever your view of government is, or big government or small government, this is one in which there is no choice, whether it's from the rebuilding or the infrastructure or the insurance perspective, in which government has got to be involved, the federal and state and local governments here. There's no way to recover from this without active government involvement, whatever that may look like.

Ali Belshee (21:40)

That's absolutely right. And even beyond that, you brought up the insurance issue. This was a huge problem before this crisis, before this terrible tragedy. That crisis is going to be magnified by this enormously. And there's no way the private sector is going to do this on their own. We have to work together on this to find a way to make insurance affordable and accessible to people. And to go beyond that, we're going to have to do a much better job bringing urgency to attacking climate change. Otherwise, we're going to see this over and over and over again. One of the things that makes this terrible disaster in California all the more striking is that it's January. We are not used to virus in January, but there is no normal anymore. The fire seasons never end. And so we need to get ahead of the climate change disaster in the making or we're just going to see this repeated in every part of the country in different forms?

Lawrence O'Donnell (22:43)

Well, you say get ahead of it. There are many people who are continuing to say that's not what this is. It's not tied to climate change. That's nonsense. It's politicization. You can think what you want or you can look at the data and you can look at the tragedy that we're both looking at tonight. Senator, I hope you, your family, your constituents, everybody around you stays as safe as possible. We are, we are thinking of all of you out there in California. California Senator Adam Schiff for us tonight. Thank you, sir.

Ali Belshee (23:09)

Thank you.

Lawrence O'Donnell (23:10)

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Lawrence O'Donnell (24:31)

On the day his hush money trial began, Donald Trump called it a quote, very, very sad day in America, end quote. Trump said words to that effect during his nearly six minute rant that he gave during his time to speak today at his own sentencing.

Ali Belshee (24:45)

This has been a very terrible experience. I think it's been a tremendous setback for New York and the New York court system.

Lawrence O'Donnell (24:53)

But Trump's sentencing was a testament to his failure. Trump's failure to persuade the jury that there was reasonable doubt of his crimes and ultimately Trump's failure to obey the law. And as Judge Juan Mershon noted today, the US Legal system has already given Trump extraordinary protections because of the election.

Ali Belshee (25:12)

It is the legal protections afforded to the office of the President of the United States that are extraordinary, not the occupant of the office. Donald Trump, the ordinary citizen, Donald Trump, the criminal defendant, would not be entitled to such considerable protections.

Lawrence O'Donnell (25:32)

Trump also wants the court system to cover up Jack Smith's two volume report about his other criminal cases related to the attempt to subvert the 2020 presidential and his possession of classified documents. Today, the justice department asked the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals to overturn or to overrule Judge Aileen Cannon's three day hold on the release of Jack Smith's report. If the 11th Circuit overrules her, the special counsel's report about Trump's election subversion case could be released immediately. Joining us now is Democratic Congressman Eric Swalwell of California. He's a member of the Judiciary and the Homeland Security Committees. He served as an impeachment manager in the second impeachment trial of Donald Trump. He is suing Donald Trump over the January 6th attack. Congressman, good to see you. Thank you for being with us this evening. Let's talk about the first of all, the sentencing. Donald Trump is now a convicted felon. And despite the fact that it was an unconditional no sentence per se, he is a convicted felon. And there are things that come along with that, and that is the fact that he's a convicted felon. For the first time in history, we will have a president who is one.

Ali Belshee (26:41)

The most important part is that Judge.

Lawrence O'Donnell (26:43)

Marshan went through with this and set as a model as Donald Trump comes into office, projecting this absolute immunity that he has that you can stand up to Donald Trump.

Ali Belshee (26:54)

And he was backed up, of course.

Lawrence O'Donnell (26:56)

By the Democratic appointed judges, but also.

Ali Belshee (26:59)

Chief Justice Roberts and Justice Amy Coney Barrett.

Lawrence O'Donnell (27:03)

So do they have the muscle through the next four years is the question.

Ali Belshee (27:07)

That I have to stand up to.

Lawrence O'Donnell (27:09)

Trump, as he surely will seek to commit further abuses, go after his political enemies. But it was encouraging in these final hours before he takes office to see accountability and Donald Trump finally meet. And the next part of this, the release of the Jack Smith report, isn't accountability in the same sense. In other words, it will have no legal teeth. For the moment, there are two issues here. One is that Attorney General Merrick Garland is talking about releasing the part about January 6, not the part about the classified documents. We'll see about that with the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals. But tell me what the consequence of releasing that report are as far as you're concerned as far as releasing the report, transparency and sunlight are the best disinfectant. And so for Donald Trump and all.

Ali Belshee (28:00)

Of his cries of witch hunt, I'll tell you, when people are accusing someone.

Lawrence O'Donnell (28:05)

Else of a witch hunt, they want everything out there.

Ali Belshee (28:08)

They're not seeking to cover it up.

Lawrence O'Donnell (28:10)

This is a guy who has a.

Ali Belshee (28:11)

Little bit of experience of that because Kevin McCarthy went after me and Adam Schiff and made some pretty ugly accusations.

Lawrence O'Donnell (28:18)

And launched an investigation into me.

Ali Belshee (28:20)

And all I did for two years was say release the report then if you have something. And then when he released the report, there was nothing. But that's the tact that you take.

Lawrence O'Donnell (28:29)

When somebody is falsely accusing you of something.

Ali Belshee (28:33)

He's taking the other tact, which is to say, I don't want the American people to see this. And that's what's so concerning.

Lawrence O'Donnell (28:39)

I want to ask you about your civil suit related to January 6th. Where does that stand right now? We've made a lot of progress. And Donald Trump has tried to use.

Ali Belshee (28:48)

Absolute immunity as a way to get out of this. It's me, January, six officers and a couple of my colleagues bringing a suit.

Lawrence O'Donnell (28:55)

For what Trump did on January 6th.

Ali Belshee (28:58)

And we have won at the district.

Lawrence O'Donnell (28:59)

Court level, the court of appeals.

Ali Belshee (29:01)

He took it to the Supreme Court and then withdrew that appeal.

Lawrence O'Donnell (29:04)

And we're now taking depositions.

Ali Belshee (29:06)

And we have taken depositions from former.

Lawrence O'Donnell (29:09)

Senior Trump officials, some of them going.

Ali Belshee (29:12)

Into the new Trump administration. And this is proceeding.

Lawrence O'Donnell (29:16)

So this is one of the last.

Ali Belshee (29:17)

Pins standing that the bowling ball that is Donald Trump did not knock down by coming into office.

Lawrence O'Donnell (29:24)

And he can't avoid trial with this.

Ali Belshee (29:27)

Because the precedent of Clinton v. Jones says that because this is a civil matter not related to the office of president conduct that was not, you know.

Lawrence O'Donnell (29:36)

Becoming of a president.

Ali Belshee (29:38)

It was outside of his scope of being president. He's going to have to answer for this and he's going to have to answer soon.

Lawrence O'Donnell (29:43)

Congressman, good to see you. Thanks. And as I said to Senator Schiff, our thoughts are with you and the folks in your state. It doesn't really matter where you are in California. You are feeling the effects of this thing because you know many, many people who are affected by it. So we continue to think and pray for, for you and your constituents. Congressman Eric Swalwell of California, thank you for joining us. Coming up, Cal Fire battalion chief's going to update us on the wind situation in Los Angeles right now. That's next. Finding the music you love shouldn't be hard. That's why Pandora makes it easy to explore all your favorites and discover new artists and genres you'll love. Enjoy a personalized listening experience simply by selecting any song or album and we'll make a station crafted just for you. Best of all, you can listen for free. Download Pandora on the Apple App Store or Google Play and start hearing the soundtrack to your life.

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Lawrence O'Donnell (31:34)

Tonight, more than 12,000 homes and businesses have been destroyed. 11 people have been confirmed dead by the fast moving Los Angeles area wildfires and officials expect those numbers to rise. KNBC's Lolita Lopez had this powerful interview with the daughter of a victim of a deadly fire. Kimiko Nickerson's father, 82 year old Roger Kent Nickerson, was killed when the Eaton fire swept through his Altadena neighborhood.

Ali Belshee (32:01)

He's been living here since 1968 and he passed away in his home. Did he just not want to leave? Had you been in communication with him before? Oh well, he was preparing to leave.

Alison Barber (32:11)

But it didn't seem that bad at the time. And he was actually sleepy. He was 82 and it was late.

Ali Belshee (32:16)

After 10 o'clock, way past his bedtime and there wasn't the threat, wasn't that.

Alison Barber (32:20)

Bad at the time.

Ali Belshee (32:22)

And so he went in there and lay down and went to sleep. When was the last time you talked to him? At about 10:00 at night.

Alison Barber (32:28)

He was moving around in here on.

Ali Belshee (32:30)

FaceTime with my son. My son was like papa, we gotta go.

Alison Barber (32:32)

And he's like it's not that bad yet. And he was like no papa, we need to go though it might get bad.

Ali Belshee (32:37)

Was he the only one in the house at the time? At the time when the house burned to the ground? He's in the house, in the bed by himself. Thinking about your father here and going.

Lawrence O'Donnell (32:47)

Through this, Just your thoughts and your feelings.

Alison Barber (32:50)

Just devastation.

Ali Belshee (32:52)

The whole neighborhood is gone. I've been living here my whole life, and my whole life is gone. Tell me about your father.

Alison Barber (33:01)

He worked at Lockheed Martin for 45.

Ali Belshee (33:03)

Plus years and he bought this house in 1968.

Alison Barber (33:06)

And we've been here as Altadena's. He's been going around the Rose bowl every day, Monday through Friday.

Ali Belshee (33:11)

Taught me the same thing. And we've just been living here in Altadena and Pasadena my whole life. How was he as a father, as a grandfather?

Alison Barber (33:19)

Great person.

Ali Belshee (33:20)

Funny.

Lawrence O'Donnell (33:22)

The life of the party.

Alison Barber (33:24)

Love sports, love people.

Ali Belshee (33:27)

Very intelligent man.

Alison Barber (33:28)

Love to read.

Ali Belshee (33:30)

How will he be remembered by you and your family?

Alison Barber (33:33)

Laughs we got to keep reading and.

Ali Belshee (33:36)

Keep watching NFL football.

Alison Barber (33:38)

That'll help him keep going in our minds.

Lawrence O'Donnell (33:43)

Joining us now for the third night is the Cal Fire Battalion Chief Brent Pasqua. He's in Pacific Palisades. Chief, thanks for being with us. You know, as a firefighter, what that woman just said, and that is that for all the devastation and for all the apocalyptic scenes, this is about people and their lives. Some lives lost, some lives literally forever changed. At the moment, the job of the firefighters is to put the fires out, but there's a lot more to come.

Ali Belshee (34:15)

That's right. I just saw it on the faces of the firefighters today up in the Palisades, realizing just how much destruction it's starting to set in. And we're humans, too. And I could just tell the look on their faces. They feel like, you know, in some way they've failed just because of how much devastation is around that town. But they're also motivated to not give up and stay engaged in this fire.

Lawrence O'Donnell (34:42)

Yeah, look, it's something we have to remember. And you as firefighters know this all the time, that you can show up to what might look like the worst fire you've ever seen. Or in this particular case, our reporter Allison Barber was talking about the fact that there's a fire there, fire there, but they can't leave this one here, and yet there's another one growing there. Firefighters never have the opportunity to get back in the truck and leave, saying, this is too big. It never can end. If the winds are too high and the helicopter's got to land, those, those pilots have to know that they're Going back up again. Those, those Woodlands firefighters know they're going back in again. It doesn't end for you folks.

Ali Belshee (35:18)

That's right. That's right. And when it gets that bad, we have priorities. Our number one priority is life, safety. So when it is that bad, we can't run away. We gotta get people out of the way. After that, we'll protect the homes and structure as best we can.

Lawrence O'Donnell (35:34)

Let's talk a bit about what's to happen. There's some sense that the worst is over and yet we're going to see an uptick in winds tomorrow and on Monday. This is a wind driven incident in some ways. Where you are in Palisades, the winds could be better if they're headed toward the ocean as opposed to another direction. But what, how are you thinking about what the next two days are going to bring?

Ali Belshee (36:00)

Well, Ali, right now it's, it's, it's been a great couple of days. As far as the wind goes. The, the fire is being fueled by the topography and the brush. Right now the wind is calm. It's creating a little bit of its own wind on the fire. You're right. There is wind predicted. So we're doing everything we can to get as much containment as we can to put this fire to bed before those winds come and possibly stir up embers that can be, that can spread this fire.

Lawrence O'Donnell (36:30)

Let's talk about contained. You just said containment. The latest numbers I have, maybe you have newer numbers, but the Eaton fire, Altadena, that area, pasadena, that's about 3% contained. The Palisades fire, which is right where you are, is about 8% contained. What does that mean? What does enough contained feel like? What are the numbers of when you feel like things are under control?

Ali Belshee (36:53)

Yeah, so the containment is if that 8% contained piece of line we can leave and feel good that there's nothing that's going to jump or start another fire in that area again. So 100% controlled contained. 8% of this fire is there. We're working on getting more of that again. We know the winds are coming. We're very optimistic though that they're not going to be as strong as the first two days of this fire. Those were winds that some of us had never seen before.

Lawrence O'Donnell (37:22)

Yeah, I've covered hurricanes that don't get as much wind as you had a couple days ago. You had zero percent containment. So the idea that we're at 3 and 8, if those are accurate numbers, is a long way from zero, but long way from 100. Chief, thanks very much thanks to all of your colleagues. Just please let all of them know from Cal Fire and the local fire departments that where the rest of us have to run away from things, we know you guys are always running in the direction of that danger and we honor you for that. Cal Fire Battalion Chief Brent Pasqua, thanks for all that you're doing for us.

Ali Belshee (37:55)

Thank you, sir.

Lawrence O'Donnell (37:57)

Coming up today, President Biden slapped new sanctions on Russia as Vladimir Putin awaits Donald Trump's return. Former Russian Ambassador Michael McFaul joins us next. With just 10 days until Vladimir Putin's personal pick for president of the United States takes power, President Biden's ramping up American support for Ukraine. Today, the United States imposed its most significant sanctions to date against the Russian energy sector, targeting Russia's two largest oil firms, nearly 200 oil carrying vessels, dozens of traders and Russian energy officials. The United States expects the sanctions to cost the Russian government billions of dollars a month. That's a significant blow to its economy as it continues to wage war against Ukraine. Tonight, President Biden told reporters he had a long conversation with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky and said this. Putin's in tough shape right now and.

Ali Belshee (38:58)

I think it's really important that he not have any breathing room to continue to do the God awful things he's continuing to do. And as I said, he's got his own problem economically, significant problems economically as well as politically at home.

Lawrence O'Donnell (39:15)

And so I decided to do everything.

Ali Belshee (39:18)

I possibly could within my power and authority to give Ukraine every advantage it could have to be able to sustain support for an independent Ukraine.

Lawrence O'Donnell (39:29)

This is going to end up being a very big part of Joe Biden's legacy when we talk about it in 20 and 25 years that he used his last days to try and avoid a catastrophe that some of us see coming. Trump told reporters yesterday that Vladimir Putin wants to meet him and said that a meeting is currently being arranged. The Kremlin today confirmed that it welcomes a meeting with Trump, but only after he's inaugurated. Joining us now is Michael McFaul, who served as the U.S. ambassador to Russia from 2012 to 2014. He's an MSNBC international affairs analyst. And this is a moment in which, Ambassador, your worlds and mine collide because I follow the economic side of things. This is a big issue. Russian natural gas is not flowing across Ukraine into Europe anymore. Russian oil is not flowing to most places anymore. And there are sanctions on energy companies. Russia really does depend on its fossil fuels in order to get money to finance things in normal times, not just in war, but in war, this is really important.

Ali Belshee (40:33)

Without question, they relied desperately on exporting oil and gas and sanctions have had a big impact on that over the years. But because the sanctions were successful in it was a price gap that the G7 agreed to. It meant that the Russian government pushed their shipping of the oil into what is this shadow fleet. Right. And so today, what is extraordinary about today is, is the Biden administration is trying to shut down that Shadow fleet. That 200 ships now that they're sanctioned will not be able to travel and it'll lead to billions of dollars less for Putin to finance his war. I wish it would have been done two years ago, I want to say that, but I'm glad that it was done today.

Lawrence O'Donnell (41:16)

Right. Well, you and I have been talking since the beginning of the war about how, you know, everything feels like it could have been done earlier. I'll give, I'll give President Biden credit. Maybe he thought he had more time. Maybe he thought he was going to be the next president, United States or Kamala Harris was. He's now trying to accelerate this thing. But the war has also accelerated. Things have been going on in the region that are serious, hard to evaluate. Ukraine has made quite a push, particularly into that part of Kursk in Russia that they're in. They've got these North Korean soldiers on the ground who are not performing all that well. But everybody's intensifying this thing. Where do you see this going?

Ali Belshee (41:55)

I think that's really important to stress because there's been this new kind of story developing that Ukraine is losing this war. And I think if you go back to the beginning of the war, which you and I did talk in the very beginning, you think about what Putin wanted to achieve. He wanted to take all of Ukraine. He hasn't done that. He's barely moved on the battle lines. Yes, he's moving, but we're talking about single digit percentages. Number two, it's been over five months and the Ukrainians are still in Russia. Kursk, like you just said, think about if that had happened in the United States of America five months, another country occupying. That has not. He has not gotten them out. Number three, he said he was going to de nazify Ukraine. That meant overthrow the Zelenskyy regime. That hasn't happened. And number four, the Ukrainians are still fighting. They are still stopping the Russians. And I think it is important that Biden threw all in with weapons too. That was another big development today. And yesterday they've given them the means to fight with the hopes that that will create the conditions for negotiation. That is not a capitulation that Trump sometimes talks about. That is a genuine negotiation. And I hope the president elect understands the differences between those two scenarios.

Lawrence O'Donnell (43:15)

Well, we'll soon see and we'll have much to talk about. Ambassador, good to see you again as always. The former United States ambassador, Russia, Michael McFaul. All right. Tonight's Last Word is next. A lot of stuff in the news today that we've been covering. But there's another big and important news story today that isn't going to get the attention it deserves given the urgent and historic news of the fires ravaging Los Angeles and the criminal sentencing of America's next president. Today's jobs report showed the economy created 256,000 net new jobs in December, far outpacing expectations. The unemployment rate dropped to 4.1%. Hourly wages rose again with a total of an almost 4% gain in wages since last year. With incomes now up roughly $4,000 more than prices, wages increasing higher than inflation. President Biden said this about the final jobs report of his four years in office. Quote, We've created over 16.6 million jobs over the course of my administration. And this is the only administration in history to have created jobs every single month. Although I inherited the worst economic crisis in decades, with unemployment above 6% when I took office, we've had the lowest average unemployment rate of any administration in 50 years with unemployment at 4.1% as I leave. Although forecasts were projecting it would take years to achieve a full recovery, we've had the strongest growth and employment creation of any advanced country, brought inflation back down and achieved the soft landing that few thought was possible, end quote. Tonight, President Biden said this, but in.

Ali Belshee (44:58)

10 days, our administration will end and the new administration will begin. We're going to face another inflection point. Do we continue to grow the economy from the middle out and the bottom up as we have the past four years, or do we backslide to an economy economic theory that benefited those at the very top while working people and middle class people struggled for their fair share? I believe the economy I'm leaving is the best in the world and stronger than ever for all Americans.

Lawrence O'Donnell (45:28)

So I think that's we have.

Ali Belshee (45:29)

We'll see what the next president does.

Lawrence O'Donnell (45:32)

All right. Before we go programming note this weekend on the Velshi Band Book Club, we will be talking about the famous Fahrenheit 451 by Ray Bradbury. I'll speak with the legendary Lois Lowry, author of another prescient dystopian classic, the Giver, and Jason Stanley, Yale University's philosophy professor, author and fascism Expert. That's tomorrow, 10:00am Eastern. I hope you'll join us. The last thing you want to hear.

Alison Barber (45:55)

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Lawrence O'Donnell (45:56)

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Ali Belshee (45:59)

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Lawrence O'Donnell (46:05)

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