Pentagon withdraws 2,000 National Guard troops from duty in Los Angeles

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Last Word with Lawrence O’Donnell

Episode Title: Pentagon Withdraws 2,000 National Guard Troops from Duty in Los Angeles
Release Date: July 16, 2025

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1. Introduction to Key Topics

In this episode of The Last Word with Lawrence O’Donnell, host Lawrence O'Donnell delves into the ongoing controversy surrounding former President Donald Trump's relationship with Jeffrey Epstein and the political ramifications of the efforts to release Epstein's files. The discussion also touches upon recent actions involving the National Guard in Los Angeles, aligning with the episode's title.

2. Donald Trump and Jeffrey Epstein: A Troubling Friendship

O'Donnell initiates the conversation by highlighting the contentious relationship between Donald Trump and Jeffrey Epstein. He references statements made by Epstein, emphasizing Trump's dismissive attitude toward Epstein's criminal activities.

Notable Quote:

"Donald Trump doesn't want you to hear the audio recording of Jeffrey Epstein saying exactly that."
— Lawrence O'Donnell [11:52]

O'Donnell underscores the significance of Trump's public praise of Epstein, despite Epstein's severe criminal charges related to sex trafficking and abuse of minors. He points out the implications of Trump's words, especially during Epstein's trial and subsequent death in custody.

Notable Quote:

"Donald Trump is the only president in history who has ever said terrific guy about a child rapist and sex trafficker."
— Lawrence O'Donnell [10:26]

3. The Epstein Files and Congressional Maneuvers

A substantial portion of the discussion centers on the political battles over the release of Epstein's files. O'Donnell critiques Speaker of the House Mike Johnson and other Republicans who are perceived as protecting Trump by withholding these files.

Notable Quote:

"Speaker Mike Johnson knows that Donald Trump doesn't want the people to decide anything about the Epstein files."
— Lawrence O'Donnell [10:50]

The episode highlights the near-pass of a House vote to release the files, emphasizing the internal conflicts within the Republican Party and the strategic moves by Democrats like Congressman Ro Khanna to push for transparency.

Notable Quote:

"Congresspeople deserve to know what's in the Epstein files, who's implicated, and how deep this corruption goes."
— Republican Congressman Thomas Massie [16:26]

4. Republican Internal Struggles and Influence of MAGA Supporters

O'Donnell discusses the strain within the Republican Party as MAGA supporters and influential figures like Tucker Carlson push for the release of the Epstein files, challenging party loyalties and creating a rift between Trump and traditional Republicans.

Notable Quote:

"Donald Trump does not know how to fight his own base. He's never had to do that."
— Lawrence O'Donnell [17:29]

The host points out that Trump's inability to manage his supporters' demands regarding the Epstein investigation exacerbates his political challenges.

5. Judicial Appointments and the Federalist Society

The conversation shifts to Donald Trump's judicial appointments, particularly focusing on his nominee Emile Beauvais for the Third Circuit Court of Appeals. O'Donnell criticizes Beauvais as a potential Supreme Court justice who would unquestioningly support Trump's agenda.

Notable Quote:

"He wants utter sycophants on the Court of Appeals, and he hopes ultimately to have this sycophant on the Supreme Court of the United States."
— Lawrence O'Donnell [24:05]

This segment underscores concerns about the long-term impact of Trump's judicial picks on American jurisprudence.

6. Pentagon and National Guard Deployment in Los Angeles

Aligning with the episode's title, O'Donnell briefly touches upon the Pentagon's decision to withdraw 2,000 National Guard troops from Los Angeles. He criticizes the initial deployment as a politically motivated "parade" that strained local resources, especially during emergencies like wildfires.

Notable Quote:

"This was a political show, a political parade from the very beginning by Donald Trump over the wishes of the governor and of the mayor."
— Lawrence O'Donnell [26:07]

7. Guest Appearances and Additional Discussions

The episode features appearances from political figures such as Senator Adam Schiff of California and Congressman Greg Stanton of Arizona. They provide critical perspectives on Trump's policies, particularly focusing on economic decisions like tariffs and their impact on American consumers.

Notable Quote:

"These tariffs are the largest tax increases on the American public since Smoot-Hawley."
— Senator Adam Schiff [30:21]

8. Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Lawrence O'Donnell wraps up the episode by reiterating the importance of accountability and transparency in the political landscape, especially concerning figures with significant influence like Donald Trump. He emphasizes the need for the American people to remain informed and engaged in these pivotal issues.

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Key Takeaways:

• Trump-Epstein Relationship: The episode critically examines the past friendship between Donald Trump and Jeffrey Epstein, highlighting the ethical and legal implications.

• Epstein Files Controversy: O'Donnell delves into the political tug-of-war over releasing Epstein's files, showcasing the internal conflicts within the Republican Party.

• Judicial Appointments: Concerns are raised about Trump's judicial nominees potentially shaping the judiciary to favor his interests.

• National Guard Deployment: The withdrawal of National Guard troops from Los Angeles is presented as a politically charged decision with practical repercussions.

• Economic Policies: Discussions around Trump's tariffs reveal the negative impact on American consumers and the legal challenges surrounding these economic measures.

This episode provides a comprehensive analysis of current political dynamics, offering listeners an in-depth understanding of the intersections between past associations, legislative actions, and their broader implications on American society.

Transcript

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

If you could hear love, what would it sound like?

[Jen Psaki]

Son, can we talk about your drinking?

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Yeah, Dad, I think we should. Helping those closest to you think about their excessive drinking. Maybe that's what love sounds like.

[Jen Psaki]

[e-mail] An OHA initiative avoiding your unfinished.

[Nick Offerman]

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[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Last Word with Lawrence o' Donnell starts right now. Hey, Lawrence.

Hey, Jen. What do you know about Rotten Tomatoes and Rotten Tomatoes scores?

Well, high ones are good. That makes me want to watch the movie. That's what I know.

And we also know we are very lucky that we are not subject to Rotten Tomato scores.

Thank goodness.

But there's a film out there that I saw that I love, I think is really great that has a 93% rotten tomatoes and to my astonishment, not guest who's going to join me tonight. But it's amazing how important Rotten Tomato scores are to many people in show business, which is why I mention it. Nick Offerman is going to join us tonight in what I think is the just the greatest dramatic role that he has ever been in in this wonderful new movie called Sovereign, which I saw and have been raving about ever since. It's. It intersects with our coverage here, but is not really about our coverage here. It somehow informs the way we think about some political thinking in this country without ever being directly political. And it is a thriller and it is just an edge of your seat film all the way through. He's gonna join us to talk about it at the end of the hour.

It was already on my list. I may need you to come babysit my kids so that I can watch it if you're up for. But now I want to go home and watch. I may have to skip your A block to watch it, if you don't mind.

No, Absolutely worth it. It is great. I cannot rave about this film enough. Your kids must not see it. Not at all. Keep them very far away from the.

TV when we're gonna be babysitting them.

All right, great. I'll take care of it.

Perfect.

Done. It's a deal. Thanks, Jen.

Great deal. Have a great show.

Thank you. I was Donald Trump's closest friend for 10 years. Those are the words of Jeffrey Epstein. And Donald Trump doesn't want you to know that Jeffrey Epstein ever said that. Donald Trump doesn't want you to hear the audio recording of Jeffrey Epstein saying exactly that. And he said it in the first year of Donald Trump's first term as president, when Jeffrey Epstein was still very much a free man and two years away from being arrested on federal charges of sex trafficking, raping children, something Jeffrey Epstein had been doing for a very, very long time and had already gotten in legal trouble for in the state of Florida, years before Donald Trump became a politician. Donald Trump said again today that he just doesn't understand why anyone, especially his supporters, would still be interested in Jeffrey Epstein. It could be because Donald Trump said this years before he became a politician. I've known Jeff for 15 years. Terrific guy. He's a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do. And many of them are on the younger side. Donald Trump said that to New York magazine in an interview for a profile of Jeffrey Epstein in New York magazine. And in those days, Donald Trump was proud to say, I've known Jeff for 15 years. Terrific guy. He's a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do. There they are doing their thing together. And as Donald Trump said about Jeffrey Epstein's beautiful women, quote, many of them are on the younger side. Donald Trump saw many of them at those parties that they were at together. Donald Trump saw how young they were. And Donald Trump was still, still proud to say, I've known Jeff for 15 years. Terrific guy. Donald Trump doesn't want us talking about any of this. And a good rule of thumb for the news media covering Donald Trump has always been to talk about whatever Donald Trump is hoping we don't talk about. It's not easy to choose what stories to present on a daily basis in the coverage of Donald Trump. It has never been easy. We all make those choices every day here and at other news organizations. And we all might make different choices on a given day, but the best choice is usually the one that infuriates Donald Trump the most. And if there is a story that Donald Trump really fears, like the Epstein story, then that should be the story that we focus on, as we will tonight, because only Donald Trump knows why he fears the Jeffrey Epstein story so much. I know that Jeffrey Epstein says that he was Donald's closest friend. I've heard him say it. And you will hear Jeffrey Epstein say exactly that in a moment. But I don't know anything that isn't already in the public record about Jeffrey Epstein's relationship with Donald Trump. But Donald Trump knows everything about his friendship with the terrific guy he described in New York Magazine. Donald Trump knows everything about his friendship with the guy who he said was a lot of fun to be with. And Donald Trump knows much, much more and very possibly everything about the women who, as Donald Trump described them, were on the younger side. Donald Trump knows what an FBI investigation about Jeffrey Epstein would reveal about him. I know what an FBI investigation of Jeffrey Epstein would reveal about me. Nothing. Never met him. You know what an FBI investigation of Jeffrey Epstein would reveal about you? Nothing. Donald Trump knows that an FBI investigation of Jeffrey Epstein conducted during his presidency would surely come across that New York magazine statement by Donald Trump saying, I've known Jeff for 15 years. Terrific guy. He's a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do. And many of them are on the younger side. Imagine a team of federal investigators coming across that quote and not approaching that witness to ask what he knew about those women who were on the younger side. Was Donald Trump questioned by anyone at the FBI or the Justice Department formally or informally during their criminal investigation of Jeffrey Epstein that led to criminal charges against Jeffrey Epstein during the Trump presidency? Is that in the Epstein files? Donald Trump knows the answer to that question. Donald Trump knows if he cooperated with that investigation during his presidency in any way. And Donald Trump is the only president in history who has ever said terrific guy about a child rapist and sex trafficker. Donald Trump is the only president in history who said he's a lot of fun to be with about a child rapist and sex trafficker who killed him himself in prison awaiting trial. And that's why the questions to Donald Trump about Jeffrey Epstein won't go away. Here is Jeffrey Epstein describing his relationship with Donald Trump in a taped interview with Trump biographer Michael WOLFF, recorded in 2017. And there it is, the voice from the grave. The last voice those girls heard before he raped them. The voice of Donald Trump's friend who he called a terrific guy. He was raping children when Donald Trump called him a terrific guy. And so, no, the questions will not go away, especially because Republicans who know how to surround Donald Trump with protection are keeping those questions alive. The in over his head. Speaker of the House knows how to protect Donald Trump and has done it before. Speaker Mike Johnson knows how to protect Donald Trump on the Epstein files. And today he decided not to protect Donald Trump. Speaker Johnson, like most Republicans who are now calling for release of the Epstein files from the Trump Justice Department, had it both ways, tried to have it both ways. When he spoke about it today during a podcast in the Speaker's office. He praised Donald Trump, saying he knows Donald Trump's heart is in the right place. But he also said the Epstein files should be released. He said, get it out there. It's a very delicate subject, but we should. We should put everything out there and let the people decide. But Mike Johnson knows that Donald Trump doesn't want the people to decide anything about the Epstein files. He doesn't want them to see the Epstein files. And so in his next breath, Mike Johnson, after just saying the worst thing that Donald Trump could hear today, of course, praised Donald Trump. What Epstein was involved in was an unspeakable evil. We've got to stand against it, not just in word, but in deed. And so we'll see what happens. Look, I do trust the president. I know his heart and head is in the right place. I don't. I don't question that at all. And. And I'm convinced they're going to sort this out. Was Donald Trump's heart in the right place when he was out in the town with Jeffrey Epstein, as we've seen in those videos? Was Donald Trump's heart in the right place when he said, jeffrey Epstein is a terrific guy. He's a lot of fun to be with? And was Donald Trump's heart in the right place about those women who he described as the younger side? The House of Representatives came within one vote today of voting for the release of the Epstein files. And a complicated procedure on the House floor with nine Republicans abstaining from the vote. Nine Republicans wanting to have it both ways, not voting against Donald Trump and not voting for Donald Trump over the Epstein files? In an interview, Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene said, quote, it's a full reversal on what was all said beforehand, and people are just not willing to accept it. Marjorie Taylor Greene refuses to accept Donald Trump and Attorney General Pam Bondi's decision to block the release of the Epstein files. She said, I don't accept it, and I don't think anyone else should accept it. Donald Trump is now trying to put all of the blame for sealing the Epstein files on his Attorney General.

[Donald Trump]

She's handled it very well, and it's going to be up to her. Whatever she thinks is credible, she should release reporters.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Then Took that statement across town to Attorney General Pam Bondi.

Response to questions, comments that President Trump.

Made a short time ago, just a.

Few moments ago on the stop line, he said that he would support you releasing additional credible evidence from the Epstein investigation. Is that something that you are open to doing? You said this just a few moments ago. Let me take that first. This today is about fentanyl. This is about a wall of people right outside this room who have died from. I appreciate your question, but this today is about fentanyl overdoses throughout our country and people who have lost loved ones to fentanyl. That's the message that we're here to send today. Nothing about Epstein. Not going to talk about Epstein.

Not going to talk about Epstein. And then Donald Trump flew to Pittsburgh where the 79 year old insomniac apparently needed a nap and did something that he and the Fox empire would have attacked Joe Biden for relentlessly. If Joe Biden did that. It was one of those long, weird, eye resting things that I used to watch Donald Trump do every day in the courtroom during his criminal trial in Manhattan, where he was found guilty on 34 counts of business fraud. Donald Trump claimed then that he was just resting his eyes, but he sure looked asleep in the courtroom in those days. And here's today's version of it without the distraction of the most incompetent Commerce Secretary in history, Howard Ludnick's voice, which seems to be one of the things that is putting Donald Trump to sleep. Watch this. I don't know, maybe it's the pressure that's making him nod off in the hope that when he wakes up, no one will ask him about Jeffrey Epstein ever again. But when he woke up, the pressure was still on. The pressure on the Epstein files is coming from Republicans. That's the real pressure. That's the pressure that Donald Trump feels. Fears the Republican congressman Donald Trump has vowed to drive out of the House of Representatives in the next election and who Elon Musk has promised to support for reelection. Republican Congressman Thomas Massie is now teaming up with Democratic Congressman Ro Khanna and Congressman Khanna's latest attempt to get a House vote on releasing the Epstein files. Congressman Khanna appeared on this program last night shortly after convincing one Republican and only one Republican on the House Rules Committee to join the Democrats in voting to release the Epstein files. But the Republicans on the committee still had enough votes in the Rules Committee to defeat that attempt. Republican Thomas Massie and Democrat Ro Khanna will now introduce a discharge petition in the House, which can force a vote if the petition is signed by 218 members of the House. Republican Thomas Massie said, we all deserve to know what's in the Epstein files, who's implicated, and how deep this corruption goes. Americans were promised justice and transparency. We're introducing a discharge petition to force a vote in the U.S. house of Representatives on releasing the complete files. Donald Trump has seen more disloyalty from Republicans and Republican commentators in the last week over the Epstein files than he has ever seen over any issue since his first inauguration as president. And on this issue, and only this issue, for the first time, there are millions of Trump voters who agree with every word House Democratic Leader Hakeem Jeffries said about this today.

[Hakeem Jeffries]

The American people deserve to know the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth as it relates to this whole sordid Jeffrey Epstein matter. Democrats didn't put the Jeffrey Epstein thing into the public domain. This was a conspiracy that Donald Trump, Pam Bondi, and these MAGA extremists have been fanning the flames of for the last several years. And now the chickens are coming home to roost. The American people deserve to know the truth. What, if anything, is the Trump administration and the Department of Justice hiding? What are you hiding? If you're not hiding anything, prove that to the American people. And if you are trying to hide something, as many of Donald Trump's MAGA supporters apparently believe, then the Congress should actually work hard to try to uncover the truth for the American people.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Donald Trump isn't worried about Hakeem Jeffries. Donald Trump isn't worried about Democrats. He is worried about Republicans and their influencers like Tucker Carlson, who insist that the Epstein files must be released. Donald Trump does not know how to fight his own base. He's never had to do that. And so today, Donald Trump is lost and reduced to saying, I don't understand it. Why do you think your supporters, in particular have been so interested in the Epstein story and so upset about how it's been handled? Why do you think that is?

[Greg Stanton]

Why they're so upset?

[Donald Trump]

Why they would be so interested? He's dead for a long time. He was never a big factor in terms of life. I don't understand what the interest or what the fascination is. I really don't. And the credible information has been given. Don't forget, we went through years of the Mueller witch hunt and all of the different things. The Steele dossier, which was all fake, all that information was fake. But I don't understand why the Jeffrey Epstein case would be of interest to anybody. It's pretty boring stuff.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Boring stuff. Jeffrey Epstein was charged by Donald Trump's Justice Department with sex trafficking with minors and conspiracy to commit sex trafficking with minors. It was such a boring case that Jeffrey Epstein killed himself in prison while awaiting trial. And it was such boring stuff that Jeffrey Epstein's co defendant and co conspirator, Ghislaine Maxwell, was convicted in her trial and given a sentence of 20 years in federal prison, where she is tonight. Ghislaine Maxwell knows about Donald Trump's friendship with Jeffrey Epstein. She has said nothing about it. She may be hoping that on Donald Trump's final day in the presidency, her silence can be rewarded through Donald Trump's pardon power, which he has already corrupted for the January 6th violent criminals. Ghislaine Maxwell is no doubt hoping the Epstein files are never released because then her silence will might be worth nothing to Donald Trump. Donald Trump doesn't want us talking about Jeffrey Epstein. And we wouldn't be if Donald Trump had done what many other rich New Yorkers at the time did and shunned Jeffrey Epstein, refused to have anything to do with him at the very same time that Donald Trump was calling Jeffrey Epstein a terrific guy. And each day the story goes on, the pressure gets worse for Donald Trump. Each day the story goes on is another day when Donald Trump could not control Republicans, including the Republican speaker of the House, now from saying that the Epstein files should be released. And each day the story goes on without the Epstein files being released. The best record we have of Donald Trump's relationship with Jeffrey Epstein are the words of Donald Trump, calling him a terrific guy. And the words that you heard in his own voice tonight from the grave of Jeffrey Epstein, saying, I was Donald Trump's closest friend for 10 years. Senator Adam Schiff will join us after this break.

[Greg Stanton]

MSNBC presents the chart topping original podcast, the Best People with Nicole Wallace. This week, Nicole speaks with legendary songwriter and music producer Jimmy Jam.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

I treat it like a privilege to be able to do that, to be.

[Jen Psaki]

Able to speak to people, to be.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Able to help raise money, help raise awareness. But I get to do it from music.

[Greg Stanton]

The best people with Nicole Wallace. Listen now. For early access ad free listening and bonus content, subscribe to MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts. Start your day with the MSNBC Daily Newsletter. Sharp insights from voices you trust, standout moments from your favorite shows, and fresh perspectives from experts shaping the news. Sign up [e-mail].

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

One of Donald Trump's many failed attempts today to change the subject from Jeffrey Epstein was to once again call for our next guest, California Senator Adam Schiff, to be prosecuted. Senator Schiff has been leading the opposition to Donald Trump's appointment of his last criminal defense lawyer to be a federal appeals court judge.

[Nick Offerman]

Emile Beauvais is Donald Trump's nominee for the Third Circuit Court of Appeals. Why is Donald Trump looking to him now in the Court of Appeals? Because he wants someone who will do his bidding on the Court of Appeals. He wants someone who will unquestionably and without concern for the morality or immorality, the ethics or lack of ethics, the lawfulness or the lawlessness will do and order and opine the way Donald Trump wants. He wants utter sycophants on the Court of Appeals, and he hopes ultimately to have this sycophant on the Supreme Court of the United States.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Joining us now is Democratic Senator Adam Schiff of California. He's a member of the Senate Judiciary Committee. Senator, thank you very much for joining us tonight. And the Emil Bove is still a Justice Department official. While the Justice Department is under this pressure to release the Epstein files, I would expect him to be Donald Trump's strongest voice in the building as his former criminal defense lawyer, to keep those files hidden.

[Nick Offerman]

Well, that's true, although there are a lot of competition. There's a lot of competition for that honor, considering Pam Bondi and Todd Blanch were also Trump criminal defense lawyers. But yes, you know, they're all caught up in the middle of this. They push out these conspiracy theories. Kash Patel, Bongino, Bondi, all of them push out these conspiracy theories. And then when they don't deliver and even worse, when they withhold what they promised to release, of course the MAGA base turns on them. And as you were pointing out, he doesn't know how to deal with it. But yeah, I would think that Beauvais and all the rest of them are in the same terrible position. Whether it matters or not, it clearly at this point doesn't seem to matter to most of the Republicans on our committee who seem ready to do Trump's bidding with this nomination.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

The MLB nomination to the Circuit Court of Appeals struck me right away as a first step to get them to the Supreme Court, because Supreme Court justices, as we know, are usually taken from the federal appeals court. And if you've already been confirmed at that level, it becomes so much easier to be confirmed to the Supreme Court, especially if it's recent. And you apparently see this as that kind of step that the as soon as would the scheme be, as soon as Bovet's confirmed. They start talking to Clarence Thomas about how pleasant his retirement could be living the life of at least the lifestyle of billionaire.

[Nick Offerman]

Well, it's certainly very possible. And I think what we're seeing in Beauvais may play a role in this. We have this confrontation now between Trump and the Federalist Society, where Trump is dumping on Leonard Leo, who was one of the architects of the Federalist Society, as essentially the pipeline for federal judges. Because Trump is pissed that Amy Coney Barrett, who came out of that pipeline, isn't willing to opine in every way Donald Trump wants, even though, frankly, he got presidential immunity and a whole lot of other things from Barrett as well as the other appointees. But because he's pissed at Amy Coney Barrett and the Federalist society, he wants MAGA people, not Federalist Society people. He wants people like M.L. bovet on the court in the future who will do his bidding no matter what. So that's what he's looking for in Beauvais on the Court of Appeals and potentially beyond that.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Senator, I want to get your reaction to the news from Los Angeles tonight. Louisiana Times reporting that 4,000 National Guard soldiers who'd been deployed in Los Angeles by Donald Trump are being released from that duty. Finally, something you've been saying was something that duty they never should have had, but certainly they could have been released from an awful long time ago.

[Nick Offerman]

They should have been released, frankly, they should never have been called up. This was a political show, a political parade from the very beginning by Donald Trump over the wishes of the governor and of the mayor to militarize an already tense situation in Los Angeles just made matters worse. But Trump feeds on that chaos. So this was by his design. And to see the Guard so misused in that way, the trust that Californians have for the Guard abused in that way was just awful. And plus those Guards members that he took off their ordinary duties, it meant at present, when we're already dealing with fires breaking out in California, they were understaffed because we rely on our Guard in case of fire and other emergency. So I think they had to cut them loose sooner or later. This was way too late. But I'm glad that this is finally happening, and I hope it means the release of all of those who were deployed, not just the Guard, but also the Marines and even worse abuse.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Senator Adam Schiff, thank you very much for joining us tonight.

[Nick Offerman]

Thank you.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Coming up, new inflation numbers today show that Donald Trump's tariffs are doing what every economist said they were going to do to prices. Donald Trump, you will remember, is the man who promised to bring down prices on day one of his presidency. That's next. Here is candidate Donald Trump 11 months ago.

[Donald Trump]

Starting on day one, we will end inflation and make America affordable again to bring down the prices of all goods.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

And today Donald Trump announced that he's going to raise the price of your medicine.

[Donald Trump]

Pharmaceuticals will be tariff probably at the.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

End of the month.

[Donald Trump]

And we're going to start off with a low tariff and give the pharmaceutical companies a year or so to build and then we're going to make it a very high tariff because we got.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

To move a very high tariff on your medicine. Joining us now is Democratic Congressman Greg Stanton of Arizona. Congressman Stanton, you have been one of many trying to get Congress back in control of tariffs. Here's Donald Trump today promising to raise yet another price, this time medicine.

[Adam Schiff]

Well, Lawrence, once again here we are. He claims that tariffs are not going to increase prices. Just the opposite. Prices are going up. The consumer price index is up almost 3% and on the rise. And the thing is, Lawrence, these tariffs, the largest tax increases on the American public since Smoot Hawley in the late 1920s, they're totally illegal. The president does not have the right to unilaterally issue these tariffs. Congress is the one supposed to be in charge of that. But because our Republican colleagues won't reassert that authority, he's issued this fake emergency declaration giving them this power. We need to reassert that power and have Congress vote on these illegal tariffs because if that goes to a vote of Congress, I guarantee you they're going down. The members of Congress do not want to see prices on medicine, on housing because of lumber, prices, on food, prices in the grocery store. We don't want to see these prices going unnecessary, necessarily up at a time when we want to keep costs down on the American people.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Well, the federal, special, federal Court on International Trade, the judges who are specialists on this agree with you completely. And their ruling was that the tariffs are illegal and unconstitutional. Only Congress can do this and they very much want it sent back to you. That case is on its way to appeal probably to the Supreme Court. But in the meantime, the people are wondering why haven't countries negotiated deals with Donald Trump? And the answer is the Court of International Trade said they're illegal. Why would you bother to negotiate a so called agreement with the Court of International Trade as saying it's illegal to do it this way?

[Adam Schiff]

We were supposed to have 90 deals in 90 days. What the heck ever happened to that? That was Never going to be the case. But look, the president is trying to issue the largest tax increases on the American people since the late 1920s, and he's never gone to the American people and explained why. One day he says it's because he wants more manufacturing in the United States. The next day he says he's doing it to raise revenue for the United States. The next day it's to gain leverage over our partners. Here is the truth. We have a major economic competitor. It's China. And if you want to win the economic battle with China, what we're doing is exactly the wrong thing. We should be issuing strategic tariffs on China, but working more closely with our allies in Europe and Asia, and particularly our next door neighbor. Our number one trading partner is Mexico. We do tons of trade with Canada. We should be coming closer as a North American economic unit. That's going to help us win this economic battle with China. What Trump is doing right now, this whiplash, one day it's there, the next day he changes his mind back and forth. The whiplash in so many ways is worse than the tariff themselves, and it's totally inexplicable. We don't know why he's doing it, and it's really unfair on the American people.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Congressman Greg Stanton, thank you very much for joining us tonight. Thank you. Appreciate it. Coming up, one of the hardest things I do here is interview friends of mine occasionally because I just feel so much pressure to get it exactly right for them. And this time it'll be an interview with a great actor. And a great actor can reveal truths to us that even the best journalism can never find. And Nick Offerman has done exactly that in his important new film, Sovereign, which you should all see. Nick Offerman will join us next as.

[Greg Stanton]

President Trump continues implementing his ambitious agenda. Follow along with MSNBC's newest newsletter, Project 47. You'll get weekly updates sent straight to your inbox with expert analysis on the administration's latest actions and how they're affecting the American people.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

The American people are basically telling the President that they are not okay with any of this.

[Greg Stanton]

Sign up for the Project 47 newsletter at msnbc.com project47.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Despite my lifetime interest in and previous occupations in show business, we rarely discuss movies or TV shows on this program because they rarely intersect with the current jurisdiction of this program, which is, depending on your mood, the collapse of or the preservation of American democracy. But then I saw Sovereign, the award worthy new film written and brilliantly directed by Christian Swigel in his stunning debut as a Director. A rave review in Variety compares the film to our attempts in American journalism, especially in print, to explain the motivations of the January 6th attackers of the Capitol and other increasingly extremist tendencies. Variety says, quote, the persistent folly of these articles is that they never really truly explain the rise of the new right wing politics. They don't explain it the way a movie like Sovereign does. Sovereign does it with love. Love is a necessary ingredient in all great screenwriting. Very much including stories about very bad people. If you can't see the love in the making of the Godfather or the Sopranos, then you don't know what you're watching. When great actors bring their humanity to scary, dangerous people, we feel something that we could never feel reading a thoroughly researched, factual article about those people. Felonious assault, forgery, theft of a car by deception, driving without a license.

[Jen Psaki]

Please note that I am appearing today as the administrator for Jerry Kane.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Oh, you're not Mr. Kane. Where is he?

[Jen Psaki]

Jerry Kane is a person under color of law. I am here in an administrative capacity, your honor.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Mr. Kane is in default of a principal balance of $38,400 plus 9.8% interest. Mr. Kane, are you prepared to make a payment at this time?

[Jen Psaki]

They never validated the debt, your honor. What does that mean exactly? Their promissory note is Invalid.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Your Honor, Mr. Kane's arguments have no legal or other significance related to the bank's filing. Mr. Kane? I agree with plaintiff, and frankly, the court is not amused.

[Jen Psaki]

Your honor, my appearance today is merely a courtesy.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Are you or are you not Jerry Kane?

[Jen Psaki]

That name refers to a person under color of law.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

I'm looking for a Jerry Kane. Please sit down. Sit down. Bailiff, remove this man from the courtroom. I'm trying to remedy. No. Touch me and you will be charged with.

[Jen Psaki]

I'm a peace officer.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

This is common law jurisdiction. I established put a rule in favor of the plaintiff.

[Nick Offerman]

We'll take a recess.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Thank you. All rise. Where's my remedy? You don't have one. For the record, I'm being denied my remedy.

[Jen Psaki]

Okay.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Actually, please note that the judge has abandoned the court.

[Jen Psaki]

His abandoned ship. I, as a sovereign, claim jurisdiction over this matter.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Case dismissed.

[Jen Psaki]

With prejudice and cause. Have a nice day.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

If you think you know the work of Emmy winning actor Nick Offerman, you don't until you have seen Sovereign. Based on a true story. Nick Offerman plays Jerry Kane, a traveling salesman of sorts, selling the idea that we are all sovereign citizens and therefore government's power over us is fake. Jerry Kane believes, truly believes, deeply and honestly believes that he cannot be forced to pay taxes or have a driver's license or pay debts because he is sovereign. If you've ever had a conversation with a person in the real world who believes those things, who believes he is a sovereign citizen, as I have, and you love that person as I do, and you feel how unreachable they are, you've already been filled with that deeply disorienting combination of sympathy and terrible fear that we all feel in every second of Nick Offerman's award worthy portrayal of a tragically lost soul full of the burning rage of a sovereign citizen. The sovereign citizen movement has been active long before Donald Trump got into politics. And as the Variety rave review points out, it was quote, creating the soil in which Trump's popularity could take root. The film doesn't mention the existence of Donald Trump. The film is not political in that sense. You won't be mired in 90 minutes of ugly politics, but rather on the edge of your seat, riveted to what reviewers are correctly calling, in the best sense of that word, a thriller, a courtroom drama, a police drama, a family drama unlike any you have ever seen. With the constant potential for an explosion of gun violence deep in the heart of America's gun culture.

[Jen Psaki]

Violence doesn't solve anything, okay? It's not violence that we're after. Even the Bible tells us if you're going to go and wage war against somebody, you have to to kill their sheep and their goats and their chickens and their babies and their wives, okay? You have to kill them, all right? Because what we're after here is not fighting, it's conquering. I mean, I don't want to have to kill anybody, but if they keep messing with me, then I'm afraid that's what it's going to come down to as I'm gonna have to kill. And if I have to kill one, I'm not gonna be able to stop. I just know it. I mean, I have an addictive personality. I haven't had a drink for 18 years because I can't handle this shit.

[Adam Schiff]

You might want to clarify that just a little bit.

[Jen Psaki]

It's a matter of what the law says about killing. The law from the Bible tells us that if you're gonna do it, you have to do it right. But I don't choose to do it right. I don't want to do it at all.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

JD now is Emmy award winning actor Nick Offerman. His new film is Sovereign. It is in theaters now and available streaming everywhere. Streaming everywhere, they say, but Definitely Amazon. And, I don't know, praise is the hardest thing for me to do right to your face. So you take over. You do the talking. They want to hear from you. Tell us about what you felt in making this movie and the sympathies and the feelings that it opened in you that surprised you.

[Jen Psaki]

Well, thank you, first of all, for having me and for all the generous things you've heaped upon me already. I'll thank your audience to temper their expectations.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

No, no, I'm telling my audience they've gotta see this. I do not rave about movies. It's not a thing that happens here. This is a breathtaking film. I went into it knowing your work and knowing your work in drama, and this was just beyond anything I could have imagined and anything I could expect to see. So they need to see it and they need to even raise their expectations.

[Jen Psaki]

Well, I appreciate it. And as we say in the theater, if it ain't on the page, it ain't on the stage. And so if I have succeeded in pulling off my collaboration with these artists, it's because Christian Swagel's script was so sensitive and beautifully wrought. And to answer your question, from the moment I read the script, I was just struck by the. There's no partisanship. It's just a simple representation of what's happened to some people living on the fringe who are getting bad information. And you said it rightly. You know, you feel you recognize them as possible neighbors. I know this guy. You know, there are people in my hometown that are some of the best citizens I've ever known, but they vote for the party of hatred. They vote for the streams of misinformation. And you say, actually, no, they're telling you something wrong from your newspaper channel. And they say, well, no, actually, that's a witch hunt.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

You're wrong.

[Jen Psaki]

And so in the frustration of trying to combat the misinformation, the evil players, I find that my solace, it comes in trying to find medicinal writing like this script and just deliver this human story. And something that I love about the movie is there are three sets of fathers and sons. And the the film examines the different way in which these fathers raise their sons and begs the question to all of us, what are we teaching our sons? What kind of masculinity, or lack thereof, are we teaching them? Is it superficial? Is it violent? Or is it loving? Is it empathetic? And I just really responded to that. And I said, I can't even wrap my head around the complexities of why, but I'VE got to do this movie, and I'm so grateful that I did. Jacob Tremblay, who plays my son, really blows me away. He is incredible, and so I despise him because he's only 18 years old and he's gorgeous and 10 times as talented as I'll ever be. That's my cross to bear. We've maintained a civil relationship.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

You're great together, and the cast is just amazing all the way through. The sensitivity of these portrayals is so moving. And this is, for me, it's a film that lives outside of politics. Politics goes and finds all of us somewhere. I mean, every movie you make, if you want to cut away from it and say, hey, how do you think those characters voted? That doesn't enter your head when you're watching most movies, but. But somewhere those characters went and voted. This movie is a movie about a lost soul. How that person got lost with life reversals. Everyone has experienced those things. Everyone knows that if it went really bad, they could fall farther from the lowest point that they've fallen. This is someone who has fallen lower than he knows how to deal with. That's really what the story is to me.

[Jen Psaki]

Yeah, I agree with that. And I recognize the humanity in Jerry Kane. And it's easy to see that with a few unlucky rolls of the dice, it could happen to me or to anybody around me. My wood shop in Los Angeles works with a program called Woodworks, where we help people that are living with homelessness. We teach them woodworking skills to help them try and get on their feet where they can get employment again and. And get back into society. And there are people that we find experiencing homelessness that will just be like a young mother whose child broke his arm, but their medical insurance failed them and they lost their home. And this kind of thing can happen to anybody in this country. And so I'm very grateful to sort of just deliver this medicine honestly to the audience and say, let's just look at these people and let's look at people that are making bad decisions, that are attacking government buildings and Capitol Police, for example. And instead of shaking our fists at them, let's consider how they got this way and what can we do together as neighbors to try and keep this from happening again?

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

It is just a beautiful piece of work all the way through. And one of my dark secrets, which might be obvious to Monday night viewers of this program, is that on weekends, I completely shut off from all news inputs of any kind, want nothing to do with them. This is a film that I watched on the weekend to do with news inputs. As far as I'm concerned, it is just a great movie. Nick Offerman, thank you very much for joining us tonight. We'll be right back. Nick Offerman's latest film is Sovereigns. He gets tonight's last word.