Secy. Buttigieg has a name for Biden’s infrastructure accomplishments: ‘The Big Deal’

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Last Word with Lawrence O’Donnell

Episode Title: Secy. Buttigieg has a name for Biden’s infrastructure accomplishments: ‘The Big Deal’
Release Date: November 15, 2024
Host: Lawrence O'Donnell, MSNBC

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Introduction

In this episode of The Last Word with Lawrence O’Donnell, host Lawrence O'Donnell delves into the current political landscape, focusing on President Biden's infrastructure achievements and the contentious confirmations of key cabinet nominees. Drawing from his extensive experience in politics and media, O'Donnell provides insightful commentary on the unfolding events that shape the nation's governance and policy direction.

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1. Critique of Trump’s Cabinet Nominees

The episode opens with Jamie Raskin critiquing former President Donald Trump's cabinet nominations, labeling them as some of the worst in history. He highlights Congressman Matt Gaetz and Robert Kennedy Jr. as particularly problematic choices.

• Matt Gaetz: Raskin condemns Gaetz for his involvement in legal controversies, including sex trafficking investigations and unethical behavior. He states, “[Matt Gaetz] is probably the second most dangerous name in America” due to his misinformation and destructive actions.

• Robert Kennedy Jr.: Raskin criticizes Kennedy for his anti-vaccine stance and lack of substantial public recognition. He remarks, “There are probably people dead tonight because of him, thousands of people who followed his medical advice on vaccines in the middle of a deadly pandemic.”

Notable Quote:

Jamie Raskin ([34:03]): “There are probably people dead tonight because of him, thousands of people who followed his medical advice on vaccines in the middle of a deadly pandemic.”

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2. The Confirmation Process and Senate Dynamics

The discussion transitions to the challenges surrounding the confirmation process for Trump's nominees. Raskin emphasizes the importance of Senate hearings and the necessity for a transparent evaluation of nominees' backgrounds.

• Recess Appointments: Raskin explains the complexities of recess appointments, noting that both the Senate and House must agree to recess for such appointments to bypass the standard confirmation process. He underscores Republican Senator John Thune's skepticism about achieving the required votes for a recess.

• Committee Jurisdiction: Raskin points out that positions like Secretary of Health and Human Services require approval from multiple Senate committees, complicating the confirmation process further.

Notable Quote:

Jamie Raskin ([35:18]): “He [Matt Gaetz] defends conspiracy theories and unethical behavior, yet now he seeks to be Attorney General. This is highly problematic.”

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3. Biden’s Infrastructure Achievements: “The Big Deal”

A significant portion of the episode focuses on Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg's branding of President Biden's infrastructure initiatives as “The Big Deal.” Buttigieg elaborates on the transformative nature of the administration's investments.

• Comprehensive Scope: Buttigieg emphasizes that Biden's infrastructure plan goes beyond traditional projects like highways and bridges. It includes removing lead pipes, expanding broadband access, and enhancing the energy grid.

• Historical Comparison: Raskin draws parallels between Biden’s efforts and Franklin D. Roosevelt’s New Deal, suggesting that Biden’s initiatives could similarly redefine government’s role in improving American life.

Notable Quotes:

Pete Buttigieg ([13:36]): “Taking together a belief in how to use government to solve problems, a recognition of what we were up against, and a level of ambition. I think all of that is what has added up into the enormous progress that we've made in recent years. Something collectively I like to think of as the big deal.”

Pete Buttigieg ([17:24]): “President Biden made it clear to this administration that we're not going to punish American constituents for the behavior of their representatives.”

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4. Voter Understanding and Public Credit

Raskin and Buttigieg discuss the difficulty voters face in attributing local and national improvements to specific government actions. They stress the importance of effective communication to ensure that voters recognize the administration's contributions.

• Attribution Challenges: Raskin notes that unlike the New Deal, which is easily identifiable, Biden's myriad projects lack a unifying name, making it harder for the public to connect improvements directly to the administration.

• Buttigieg’s Strategy: Buttigieg suggests focusing on the common themes of recognizing large-scale problems, utilizing government effectively, and demonstrating ambition to highlight the administration's impact.

Notable Quote:

Jamie Raskin ([19:57]): “We have to squeeze in a break right here. We're going to be back with Secretary Pete Buttigieg.”

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5. The Future of American Manufacturing and Industrial Strategy

Buttigieg discusses the resurgence of American manufacturing, attributing it to government initiatives like the Inflation Reduction Act and the Chips and Science Act.

• Industrial Renaissance: He highlights how these policies have revitalized factories in regions like Indiana, Michigan, and Kansas, emphasizing the government's role in influencing private industry.

• Long-Term Impact: Buttigieg points out that many infrastructure projects have long-term benefits, extending beyond the current administration and contributing to sustained economic growth.

Notable Quote:

Pete Buttigieg ([28:39]): “Fixtures are rising out of the prairie in places like northern Indiana... these are thanks to the Inflation Reduction Act and the Chips and Science Act.”

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6. Senate Judiciary Committee and Ethics Reports

The episode returns to the contentious confirmations of Trump’s nominees, particularly focusing on the necessity of releasing ethics reports for candidates like Matt Gaetz.

• Amy Klobuchar’s Stance: Senator Klobuchar asserts that all nominees deserve a thorough review, including the release of the House Ethics Committee report. She emphasizes the importance of maintaining constitutional checks and balances.

Notable Quote:

Amy Klobuchar ([42:31]): “This is constitutional integrity. This is the future of our government... you can't have someone like [Gaetz], who is himself a subject of an investigation, take over the Justice Department.”

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7. Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Lawrence O'Donnell wraps up the episode by reiterating the critical nature of informed voter participation and the significance of recognizing the administration's efforts in infrastructure and governance.

• Voter Participation: O'Donnell underscores the importance of understanding the roles and contributions of elected officials to ensure that voters can make informed decisions at the ballot box.

Notable Quote:

Lawrence O'Donnell ([35:18]): “Most important thing to know when you look at a ballot is what you are voting for. And that isn't easy to do.”

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Key Takeaways

• Infrastructure Achievements: President Biden’s comprehensive infrastructure plan, dubbed “The Big Deal” by Pete Buttigieg, represents a significant, multifaceted effort to modernize and improve American infrastructure, comparable to historical initiatives like the New Deal.

• Confirmation Battles: The confirmations of Trump’s cabinet nominees, particularly Matt Gaetz and Robert Kennedy Jr., are fraught with ethical and procedural challenges, highlighting the ongoing struggle for Senate control over executive appointments.

• Government’s Role in Economic Revival: Government policies are playing a pivotal role in revitalizing American manufacturing and addressing long-term economic challenges, demonstrating the potential of strategic governmental intervention.

• Voter Awareness: There is a pressing need for better communication and transparency to ensure that voters can accurately attribute legislative and infrastructural achievements to the appropriate government actions and officials.

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Notable Quotes Summary:

1. Jamie Raskin on Matt Gaetz:

   “There are probably people dead tonight because of him, thousands of people who followed his medical advice on vaccines in the middle of a deadly pandemic.” ([34:03])

2. Pete Buttigieg on Infrastructure:

   “Taking together a belief in how to use government to solve problems, a recognition of what we were up against, and a level of ambition... I like to think of as the big deal.” ([13:36])

3. Amy Klobuchar on Ethics Reports:

   “This is constitutional integrity. This is the future of our government... you can't have someone like [Gaetz], who is himself a subject of an investigation, take over the Justice Department.” ([42:31])

4. Lawrence O'Donnell on Voter Participation:

   “Most important thing to know when you look at a ballot is what you are voting for. And that isn't easy to do.” ([35:18])

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This episode of The Last Word with Lawrence O’Donnell provides a thorough examination of President Biden's infrastructure successes and the contentious political maneuvers surrounding Trump's cabinet nominations. Through incisive discussions and expert insights, listeners gain a deeper understanding of the current political climate and the critical importance of informed voter engagement.

Transcript

[Narrator]

It had to be you.

[Pete Buttigieg]

Dang.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

You're not supposed to sound that good at karaoke.

[Alex]

You've just only heard me sing all stuffed up with nasal polyps. But now I'm on this medicine and breathing better. So this is me with less congestion.

[Narrator]

Dupixent. Dupilumab is an add on prescription maintenance treatment for uncontrolled chronic rhinosinusitis with nasal polyps in adults and children 12 years and up. It can help shrink your nasal polyps so you can breathe better with less congestion. Plus, it's an alternative to surgery.

[Alex]

Oh, this is your song.

[Jamie Raskin]

Wish I was singing.

[Narrator]

After congested you, severe newer allergic reactions can occur. Get help right away for face, mouth, tongue or throat swelling, wheezing or trouble breathing. Tell your doctor right away of signs of inflamed blood vessels like rash, chest pain, worsening, shortness of breath, tingling or numbness in limbs. Tell your doctor of new or worsening eye problems like eye pain or vision changes, joint aches and pain or a parasitic infection or asthma. Don't change or stop steroid asthma or other treatments without talking to your doctor.

[Alex]

Do more with less nasal polyps. Ask your doctor about Dupixent.

[Narrator]

Learn [e-mail] or call 1-844-dupixent Carl's Jr.

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[Alex]

Now it is time for the last word with the great Lawrence O'Donnell. Good evening, Lawrence.

[Jamie Raskin]

Good evening, Alex. I'm in the Washington studio. As you might be able to tell, I have a question. This is just between us. It's a professional.

[Alex]

No one can hear us.

[Jamie Raskin]

So I. The Secretary of Transportation is going to be my first guest tonight.

[Alex]

Fantastic.

[Jamie Raskin]

And I just came down here on the train, which was two hours late. Is that something I should bring up with him or would that make it too much about me?

[Alex]

Yes. It's always late. It's always late.

[Jamie Raskin]

It isn't always late. I love Amtrak, but I had a rough day with it today and I think so.

[Alex]

I mean, it's not like he's dealing with anything else.

[Jamie Raskin]

Should I Just go to the top on this one.

[Alex]

I think so. But by the way, he does respond to, you know, like, tweets at tweets. So, I mean, you have a captive audience. I say go for it. Maybe you can get like a bag of pretzels on your next ride back to New York.

[Jamie Raskin]

We have precious few minutes, so it would be difficult to squeeze it in, but we'll see.

[Alex]

And we're wasting, and we're wasting some right now.

[Jamie Raskin]

We've wasted a couple more.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

You go have that.

[Alex]

Good show.

[Amy Klobuchar]

I'll be waiting.

[Jamie Raskin]

Thanks, Alex.

[Alex]

Bye.

[Jamie Raskin]

Thank you, Alex. Thanks. Well, eight years ago, Donald Trump promised to deliver to his administration the best people. He delivered the worst people to ever work in a presidential administration. And now he is delivering even worse people. Matt gaetz spent about 24 hours as the worst cabinet nominee in history. Then came America's king of Nepo babies, Robert Kennedy Jr. Who the stupidest president in history wants to make the Secretary of Health and Human Services. Donald Trump proved once again that the most important non financial currency to him is fame. All the rest of Donald Trump's nominees are Republicans who've been demonstrating their fealty to Donald Trump for years now. The guaranteed way to be offered a job by Donald Trump and his new administration was to attend his criminal trial in Manhattan, where Donald Trump was filed guilty 34 times. Congressman Matt Gaetz attended Donald Trump's criminal trial. Donald Trump's criminal defense lawyers in that trial who won him 34 guilty verdicts were today named by Donald Trump for positions in the Justice Department. Donald Trump's lead criminal defense attorney, Todd Blanche, will be nominated for Deputy Attorney general and his other criminal defense attorney. In that case, Emil Beauvais will be appointed principal Associate Deputy Attorney general. Robert Kennedy Jr. Didn't even have to go to the trial. Robert Kennedy Jr. Isn't even a Republican. He's just famous. Or better put, he just has a famous name. He has spent most of his life with no one having any idea who he is when he walks through public places, because the only thing famous about him is his name. And it is now possibly the second most dangerous name in America, second only to the name of the person who wants him to be in charge of health and human services in this country. Robert Kennedy Jr. Was a heroin addict in high school and college and during the years when he should have been going to medical school if he ever wanted to claim medical expertise. Just as the confirmation process for Matt Gaetz will include many public discussions about the federal sex trafficking investigation that focused on Matt Gaetz and a friend of his and the House Ethics Committee investigation that also studied those charges. Robert Kennedy, Jr. S confirmation process will include much public discussion about his unwelcome touching of babysitters and other very bad behavior as he made life difficult, to say the least, for all three of his wives consecutively. But the most important thing to know about Robert Kennedy, Jr. Is that there are probably people dead tonight because of him, thousands of people who followed his medical advice on vaccines in the middle of a deadly pandemic. At least Matt Gaetz didn't kill anyone. And that is why, on my scorecard, Matt Gaetz is now the second worst cabinet nominee in history. This is obviously open to debate, and tomorrow, I suppose it is possible someone worse can be announced for Secretary of Education or Commerce or Agriculture. Washington is now reeling from two days of shock from the Gates announcement and then the Kennedy announcement. Congressman Jamie Raskin will join us with his perspective on Matt Gaetz, with whom he has served in the House of Representatives. Amy Klobuchar is a member of the Senate Judiciary Committee, which has jurisdiction over the confirmation of the attorney general, and she will be vot voting on all of Donald Trump's nominees that require Senate confirmation. She will join us in this hour. What no one in the Trump transition team is likely to know and what Donald Trump and Robert Kennedy, Jr. Certainly don't know, is that the Secretary of Health and Human Services actually has to have two confirmation hearings because two committees have jurisdiction over Health and human Services. The Senate Finance Committee has jurisdiction over most of the Health and Human Services Committee, most of the Health and Services Department budget through Medicare and Medicaid. The Senate Committee on Health, Education, labor and Pensions also has some jurisdiction over the Department of Health and Human Services. And so Robert Kennedy, Jr. And he might be learning this for the first time, if he's watching now, is going to go through two, count them, two televised confirmation hearings in two different Senate committees. When I was chief of staff of the Senate Finance Committee, we never had a difficult confirmation hearing for a Secretary of Health and Human Services, not once. We couldn't get one of those hearings on tv. I can't think of a confirmation hearing for Secretary of Health and Human Services that has ever actually been televised. The Senate video system records all of them, but the news networks never go live to a confirmation hearing for the Secretary of Health and Human Services. Confirmation process is going to be a circus this time, but according to next year's Senate Majority Leader, John Thune, at least there will be a process. Donald Trump has demanded publicly that the Republican controlled Senate next year simply eliminate confirmation hearings, go into recess so that the President can appoint his cabinet with so called recess appointments that are only good for about 18 months to two years. Jon Thune said on Fox tonight that that is not as easy as Donald Trump thinks. Do you think Matt Gaetz can get through? Well, I don't know the answer to that just yet. I mean, obviously as you point out, there certainly are some skeptics, but he deserves a process. RFK Jr. Do you think he can get through? Same answer. They deserve a process. Yeah. I mean there are nominees that the President has made put forward and you know, the Senate has the role of advise and consent under the Constitution. So they deserve a hearing and we'll proceed accordingly. If these, if you were to bet that, would you have to do recess appointments, you're saying yes or no, would you say? I hate to say yes or no because I think that's still an open question. My view is we want to do this the regular way. The regular way. John Thune also pointed out that it is not just the Senate that has to go into recess. The House of Representatives has to go into recess for as long as it takes. And also it requires a majority vote of both the House and the Senate to go into recess. And Jon Thune is doubtful that even enough Republicans in the Senate would vote to go into recess to appoint the worst nominees ever presented to the United States Senate. The Trump news is coming at us like a firehose once again. And instead of getting drowned in that fire hose, tonight we are going to begin what I hope is a series of reports to voters that are absolutely critical to voter participation in a democracy. Most important thing to know when you look at a ballot is what you are voting for. And that isn't easy to do because your only choice on the ballot is who you are voting for. Many voters mistakenly thought when they voted for Donald Trump that they were voting for someone who would get things done in their community. That's because most of us, and that very much includes me, don't always know who to credit for the good things or the bad things that government has done. Who did that? Who built that new bridge? Who rebuilt our airport to make it a state of the art airport? Why did that new chips factory locate in that town? Who did that? The answers to those questions are critical to informed voter participation. In a democracy, people will automatically get refunds from airlines next year when their flights are canceled and they won't know that Joe Biden did that people will be driving over bridges with their kids in the backseat, not knowing that that bridge was rebuilt and made safer by Joe Biden. It would take much more than the full hour of this program to describe what Joe Biden did as President of the United States. But for most other presidents, it would take less than an hour to describe what they did in the presidency. Donald Trump in four years did tax cuts and tariffs that raised prices. And he built a little bit of wall at the southern border. Not 2,300 miles of border wall, just a tiny fraction of that. That's what he did. You have probably heard many times on this program that what Joe Biden built as president compares only to what Franklin Delano Roosevelt did in 12 years in the presidency before there were term limits for president. President Roosevelt's revolutionary program that changed everything about the way we live in America was called the New Deal. The most poverty stricken group of Americans in the 1930s were the elderly. President Roosevelt created Social Security and provided a financial security minimum for people over 65 that never existed before. President Roosevelt enacted the first minimum wage. Massive infrastructure spending all over the country that provided jobs and improved communities all over everywhere we live in this country. Donald Trump kept promising an infrastructure bill when he was president and kept having infrastructure weeks and did absolutely nothing. The Trump administration didn't write one sentence of an infrastructure bill, never mind have a vote on it. There should be a name for what Joe Biden did. Franklin Roosevelt came up with the name the New Deal when he was running for president for the first time in 1932, in the middle of the worst depression in the 20th century. He promised America what he called a New Deal for the American people. The phrase caught on right away and reporters began referring to the New Deal in the first year of the Roosevelt presidency. And we still talk about it today as the most important turning point in the definition of what was possible in American government. What Joe Biden did should have a name like that. Everyone knew what you meant when you were talking about the New Deal in 1934 or 1944 or 1954. Our next guest has a name for what Joe Biden did.

[Pete Buttigieg]

President Biden understands that policy is about everyday life.

[Jamie Raskin]

The middle class built the country.

[Pete Buttigieg]

It's about people.

[Jamie Raskin]

And unions help the middle class.

[Pete Buttigieg]

He doesn't just see a road or a bridge. He sees somebody's commute home back to their family. He doesn't just see ships and ports and supply chains. He sees ways for us to get the things we count on at the grocery store. That's what all of this is actually about. Taking together a belief in how to use government to solve problems, a recognition of what we were up against, and a level of ambition. I think all of that is what has added up into the enormous progress that we've made in recent years. Something collectively I like to think of as the big deal.

[Jamie Raskin]

Leading off our discussion tonight is Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg. The big deal. Let's get it started right now. Let's see if it can catch on.

[Pete Buttigieg]

I hope it does. You know, first of all, I think it's a Biden esque turn of phrase, but also the only way to really capture the transformative investment that have been made, certainly in transportation infrastructure, the part that I've had the honor and privilege of working on. But also the removal of lead pipes that have been poisoning children for decades in this country, the extension of broadband Internet access to millions of households, the improvements to the energy grid. Unlike some of the other moments in our infrastructure history that had a single piece of infrastructure that was changed. Think of the interstate highway program under Eisenhower, a massive achievement, but it was one thing, the transcontinental railroad under Lincoln. But this is a little bit hard to characterize because it touches so many things that the only thing that all of those different kinds of investments really have in common is the scale, the scope, the imagination, and that recognition that confronted with a crisis, in some ways, as FDR was confronted with a crisis, President Biden responded with a level of ambition, saying, let's take the tools of government, use them to solve both short term and long term problems. And that's what this decade of infrastructure is all about.

[Jamie Raskin]

How do we get voters to understand who did that, this fundamental thing? All they get in the voting booth is a name and they don't know why are things running so much better in my town or in my state because of things that people in government did. Might be your governor, might be your mayor. You've been a mayor, you've been trying to get that credit for yourself. I'm sure as mayor sometimes, yeah.

[Pete Buttigieg]

And you know, we have been out there working with governors and mayors because one of them favorite rules of political mathematics is somehow it works out that if two willing parties share credit for something like this, each party walks away with two thirds of the credit. And it can be a beautiful thing. Of course, we've also seen people trying to take credit for projects that oppose really. You know, I try not to be cynical about this, but again and again we've seen often it's been Republican members of the House, you know, telling their constituents, I delivered this project. It was out of the.

[Jamie Raskin]

Let me ask you something about the mechanics of this. Right. Because you've got transportation, huge piece of the infrastructure bill. And the way. I know the way that works. I mean, I was also the chief of staff of the Environment Public Works Committee in the Senate, which has a lot to do with the public works aspects of the infrastructure bill. And so I know when you pass one of these laws, the Transportation secretary gets calls, gets letters from members of Congress saying, can you please make sure this project in my district, in my town gets funded? Have you been getting those requests as secretary from Republicans who voted against this all the time?

[Pete Buttigieg]

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

[Jamie Raskin]

Why don't you just run out to a microphone every day?

[Pete Buttigieg]

Oh, it's so tempting. It's so tempting. But, you know, President Biden made it clear to this administration that we're not going to punish Americans constituents for the behavior of their representatives.

[Jamie Raskin]

Oh, sure, no. But we do a process. But please punish the people who voted against it at the time.

[Pete Buttigieg]

Well, we're certainly going to call them out. Yeah. And we have. And you know, I think it's important just to remind everybody that this infrastructure package didn't just happen. We talk about it now like it couldn't have been any other way. It was three years ago this week that President Biden signed it. But, you know, three years and two months ago, everybody in this town was writing political obituaries for that legislation again and again. There were, you know, including me.

[Jamie Raskin]

And the reason I was, and I've said this to the president, is that when I worked in the Senate, what you guys did was impossible. It couldn't have been done. We all would have said to you, well, sorry, we don't have the votes. We can't get there. It's a 50, 50 Senate. We used to have 57 Democrats and struggle to get things done in a much more cooperative environment. And so I didn't know what play to run to get these done, get this done. But Joe Biden did. And once I saw that happen, I just sat back not knowing what you were capable of next. And you kept doing it.

[Pete Buttigieg]

Yeah. It turns out his decades in the Senate and in public service really came in handy. As you know, I'm somebody who's a big believer in what a new generation can bring in terms of leadership. But I've got to say, I know there were times when I thought, okay, I guess it's not going to happen. And he kept coming back People said, oh, it's foolish for you to come back. After one version of it collapsed, he brought people back for another version. I sat there in the Oval Office watching him with Republican and Democratic members of the House and the Senate not giving up. And sure enough, this happened. But, you know, what's really striking is in the same way that we had legislators try to take credit for projects that they voted against in the last few years, I think for the next four years, we're going to see an entire administration's version of that. Because, of course, President Trump did not deliver an infrastructure package and he opposed the one that President Biden delivered. But for the next four years, you know, there are going to be more and more projects that we started. The nature of these projects is they that very rarely get done in one year or even three years. Many of them get done in five or seven years. They will be creating jobs and improving lives, not just during the next four years, but even beyond that. And so I think it will continue to be important to frankly communicate that we will have handed the new president.

[Jamie Raskin]

There's projects in here that are 10 years away from completion. I mean, when those bridges go across the Cape Cod Canal, for example, which I happen to know about, which got funded, which people have been trying to do something about for years, unless it's named the Biden Bridge, I don't think people are going to get it. Is there a way? I've tried to describe the New Deal in two minutes, and I've come up with versions of it from time to time. And there's been so many books written about it, and I think we all who know about it have a handle on it. We can talk about how it includes all sorts of extensions of humanity that we didn't have before, like child labor laws. Everything from child labor laws to giant infrastructure projects. Is there a way of describing. Describing the big deal that you could get across to people in a clear way? I remember, like lbj, he brought electricity to rural Texas, that one thing when he was in Congress. And I brought electricity to rural Texas, that was easy to remember. And you turned on your. Every time you turned on your light, you knew it was LBJ. This is 68,000 projects around the country. How do you explain it?

[Pete Buttigieg]

Yeah, there's no way to characterize it. Just one project at a time. I did the math, and I think if I were to visit at three projects a day for the rest of my life, I still would not live long enough to see all of them. So I think a better way to think of it is what they all have in common. Not just these projects, but the other steps that have taken place under the President's leadership. Things in our department, like aviation, consumer protection, making it easier to be an airline passenger, things that took place outside of my department that have made everyday life easier, from getting hearing aids over the counter to the FTC's rule that now says that if you sign up for something like a gym membership or a newspaper subscription, it ought to be just as easy to cancel what all these things have in common. Here's how I think of it. Three things. One, recognizing the scale of the problems that face the country. Two, recognizing that government, not always big government, but the right kind of government, can be a solution if used in the right way. And then three, not being afraid to actually bring those tools to bear in a big way. And that's certainly what happened in the infrastructure space. When we got here, the President was confronted with some of the most enormous and. And multiplied problems ever to hit our transportation system. It's almost easy to forget just how dramatic it was. Like right now, we're focused on getting the airlines to treat passengers better. Back then, it was making sure the airline sector did not completely go out of business in this country. So it was recognizing that set of problems, using government tools, in this case, making sure that there was a rescue to keep those airlines in business, and then turning around as we faced a new set of problems like delays, cancellations, customer service headaches, and using our tools as a department to confront those. So, yes, there are so many different things that went on in this administration that I think volumes will be written for the rest of my lifetime about their impact. But they do have that pattern in common. A colossal problem, a belief in the potential of good government to make a difference, and then a willingness to go big.

[Jamie Raskin]

You know, we did big infrastructure deals in the 1990s. The acronym for the last big one was I.C.E. t that I worked on. But we, you know, you always leave stuff on the table that. That didn't get done. And you guys came along and it took decades, but picked up stuff that had been left on the table for over 20 years and got it done. We have to squeeze in a break right here. We're going to be back with Secretary Pete Buttigieg.

[Pete Buttigieg]

It had to be you.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Dang, you're not supposed to sound that good at karaoke.

[Alex]

You've just only heard me sing all stuffed up with nasal polyps. But now I'm on this medicine and breathing better. So this is me with less congestion.

[Narrator]

Dupixent Dupilumab is an add on prescription maintenance treatment for uncontrolled chronic rhinosinusitis with nasal polyps in adults and children 12 years and up. It can help shrink your nasal polyps so you can breathe better with less congestion. Plus, it's an alternative to surgery.

[Alex]

Oh, this is your song.

[Jamie Raskin]

Wish I was singing.

[Narrator]

After congested you, severe allergic reactions can occur. Get help right away for face, mouth, tongue or throat swelling, wheezing or trouble breathing. Tell your doctor right away if signs of inflamed blood vessels like rash, chest pain, worsening, shortness of breath, tingling or numbness in limbs. Tell your doctor of new or worsening eye problems like eye pain or vision changes, joint aches and pain, or a parasitic infection or asthma. Don't change or stop steroid asthma or other treatments without talking to your doctor.

[Alex]

Do more with less nasal polyps. Ask your doctor about Dupixent.

[Narrator]

Learn [e-mail] or call 1-844-dupixent Carl's Jr.

[Carl's Jr. Ad]

S Big Carl fans know nothing beats the layers and layers of flavor of a Big Carl. Nothing beats that charbroiled beef, American cheese and tangy Carl's classic sauce. Nothing except getting a second Big Carl for just $1. Big Carl, just one ups itself for just one buck. The buy one Big Carl, get one for a buck. Deal only. Carl's Junior Big Burger Good Burger available for a limited time at participating restaurants. Tax not included. Price may vary. Not valid with any other offer, discount or combo.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

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[Jamie Raskin]

It should be called the Biden Tunnel. It is the most complex infrastructure project funded by Joe Biden. It will provide a third tunnel across the Hudson river between New York City and New Jersey, one of the most important interstate links in the country. As the vehicular traffic has increased across the Hudson river over the last 50 years, there has not been one additional lane added to that crossing. New York Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan, for 24 years in the Senate, was a champion of a tunnel that never got built. So were some New York governors, New York City mayors. No one could get it done. No one. Then came Joe Biden. Construction began this year on the new tunnel. For the next hundred years, people will be driving through that tunnel, and they will have no idea who did that. They should call it the Biden Tunnel. Secretary Pete Buttigieg is back with us. And, you know, Donald Trump is going to take credit for that tunnel.

[Pete Buttigieg]

Absolutely. I mean, look, we have created a pipeline of good projects that are going to play out over the next few years. When I called projects like the Hudson River Tunnel the cathedrals of our infrastructure, I didn't say that just because it's a poetic word for something. I said it bearing in mind that the thing about the world's great cathedrals is the hands that laid the cornerstone of those cathedrals Weren't even around 100 years later when other hands laid the keystone. And while some of the projects we're funding, like a streetscape project to make an intersection safer, really can be done in one or two construction seasons, others even working at warp speed, are the work of a decade or more. But President Biden deserves the credit for making these things happen, because so many others before him promised and failed to get it done. I'll admit one of the few times that I was fooled by Donald Trump was when I was a mayor and he said he was gonna do a big infrastructure package, I thought, why not? It's good politics. Both parties would like to see it happen. Why wouldn't he do that? And plus, it seems to be something he talks about all the time. Of course they didn't, but Joe Biden did. And it was an amazing thing to watch, especially because the bipartisan nature of that deal really specifically vindicated his model of how to get things done in this town. At a time when people said, that's just not how it works anymore. And what's resulted is even more things that people said were impossible have happened. Of course they said it was politically impossible to do this. But another thing that they told me growing up was impossible was for union jobs and manufacturing jobs to come back to the industrial Midwest. In places like where I grew up, they told us that was all done, never ended.

[Jamie Raskin]

We didn't even think that that was governmental action. We just thought, well, private enterprise does a factory here or they don't, or they move a factory. The idea that government could get in here and infl influence what private industry is doing was something that people weren't even really thinking about before this presidency. In any serious way.

[Pete Buttigieg]

You weren't allowed to use terms like industrial strategy. And yet the results of the industrial strategy are that factories are rising out of the prairie in places like northern Indiana, where I grew up, in Michigan, where I live now, and Kentucky and Kansas, where I visited facilities that would not be happening if it weren't for things like the Inflation Reduction act and the Chips and Science act and the infrastructure.

[Jamie Raskin]

Can I just stop you on that point for a moment because of the politics of it? Because we're trying to teach both what's been done here and the political implications. When you say rising out of the prairie, somewhere in what I've been reading about this, it indicated something like 80% of the benefits of that kind of activity are happening out there in the Republican prairie, where, by the way, there's room, there's plenty of room to throw up a new factory. It isn't easy to throw up a new factory in Los Angeles County. There's not a lot of room. But. But out there there's plenty. And that is where it's happening.

[Pete Buttigieg]

That's right.

[Jamie Raskin]

And you're not going to get any political credit for that.

[Pete Buttigieg]

Well, right now, people in the building trades in some of these communities are telling me they're having the biggest year they've ever had just building these factories. But, yeah, they're not even online yet. Actually, most of these major factories and facilities are slated to come online in 2026, some in 25, many in 2027. So I think we're going to have a responsibility. And I certainly, you know, whatever I might be doing by way of a day job, I will be reminding every who will listen and quite a few people who maybe won't, that these things are happening because Joe Biden made sure that American manufacturing, you will have a.

[Jamie Raskin]

Seat here anytime you wanted to remind people of this. You said something, I think, Monday at your alma mater, a version of which I have been saying to people, much less eloquent version, and I think this is one of the fun things that people experience listening to you on tv, listening to you in public forums, is you say things that are already in people's minds in certain ways, but much more eloquently and sharply and to the point. And this is an example, this is one you said. In moments like this, our salvation will come from the local and state level. What did you mean by that?

[Pete Buttigieg]

Well, I think there's a lot of frustration, even despondency about where Washington is headed, although I believe there is.

[Jamie Raskin]

I've heard that yes, but there's more.

[Pete Buttigieg]

First of all, there are a lot of good people in Washington who will be stepping up, many of whom are about to be on this program. I saw them on the way in in the House and the Senate. But also there's a lot more to the political and policy life of this country than Washington. I mean, part of it's my orientation having emerged as a mayor, but also the people that I see doing the work on the ground in our cities, in our communities, in our states where. And look, sometimes this has been an irritant for the center left, just how much power in this country is, is not national, but state and local right now. I think it's going to be a very healthy thing because we're going to see communities stepping forward, looking after people demonstrating both a substance and a style of politics that has more decency and more focus, more discipline and better results than what I fear we are soon going to see from the executive branch here in Washington. And I think that's really going to light the way forward.

[Jamie Raskin]

Mr. Secretary, please, whenever you can, come back and help us understand who did that. I do think it's going to be one of those issues that we're going to have to carry over the next four years.

[Pete Buttigieg]

It's important.

[Jamie Raskin]

Thank you very much for joining us. Real honor to have you join us. Congressman Jamie Raskin has shared a workplace with Congressman Matt Gaetz for eight years until Matt Gaetz suddenly quit yesterday. Congressman Raskin joins us next.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Have you met All Modern? All Modern brings you the best of modern furniture and decor. And right now through November 20th, you'll score up to 50% off during their early Access to Black Friday sale. Simplify your holiday entertaining with deals on plush sofas, modern tabletop essentials and more. All on sale at All Modern. Then get them delivered for free in days. You heard that right. Days. That's modern made simple. Shop All Modern's early access to Black Friday sale now through November 20th at allmodern.com.

[Jamie Raskin]

Hey, this is Jeff Lewis from Radio Andy live and uncensored. Catch me talking with my friends about my latest obsessions, relationship issues and bodily ailments. With that kind of drama that seems to follow me, you never know what's going to happen.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

You can listen to Jeff Lewis live at home or anywhere you are. Download the SiriusXM app for over 425 channels of ad free music, sports, entertainment and more. Subscribe now and get 3 months free offer details apply. Did you know that parents rank financial literacy as the number one most difficult life skill to teach. Meet Greenlight, the debit card and money app for families. With Greenlight, you can set up chores, automate allowance and keep an eye on your kids spending with real time notifications, kids learn to earn, save and spend wisely. And parents can rest easy knowing their kids are learning about money. With guardrails in place. Sign up for Greenlight [e-mail] podcast.

[Jamie Raskin]

Republican Senator John Cornyn, who is a member of the Senate Judiciary Committee, where Matt Gaetz's confirmation hearing will be held, wants to see the House Ethics Committee report about the Ethics Committee investigation of Matt Gaetz for sexual misconduct and drug use.

[Pete Buttigieg]

The House Ethics report, would you want to see it before voting on it?

[Jamie Raskin]

I don't want there to be any limitation at all on what the Senate can consider.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

So you want to see it?

[Jamie Raskin]

Absolutely. Joining us now is Democratic Congressman Jamie Raskin of Maryland. He is the top Democrat on the House Oversight Committee and served as the lead impeachment manager in the second impeachment trial of Donald Trump. Will we see that House Ethics Committee report?

[John Thune]

It feels pretty inevitable. I mean, the guy wants to be the chief law enforcement officer of the United States of America. It's hard to believe that the US Senate would completely abdicate its constitutional duties by not looking at a report of the Ethics Committee of the coordinate chamber of the legislative branch of government. So I believe that it will be seen. It will get to the members of the Senate. Otherwise, they will just refuse to vote. I mean, and I'm hearing that not just from the Democrats, but from Republicans, too.

[Jamie Raskin]

Yeah. And so the move by Gates yesterday, resigning, we kind of instantly saw it as, oh, okay, he's trying to, this is to stop the Ethics Committee. But a resignation stops Ethics Committee investigations. This investigation is complete. The only thing left to be done was to have a vote on the report. And the committee people should know is equal, Democrat and Republican, five of each. It's a complete bipartisan committee. And there is a precedent for someone having an Ethics Committee report released after he resigned. But let me just go to the moment. Where were you when you heard Matt Gaetz as the name for next attorney general?

[John Thune]

I was in my office. Some of my staff people came in and told me and I started laughing and I said, that's got to be the Onion. Couldn't be true. And I think a lot of people had that.

[Jamie Raskin]

So literally, what was the. Did the staff manage to convince you and that they come back and say, no, no. Yes. Did they have to show you something?

[John Thune]

They said no, really? And then they turned the TV on in my office, and sure enough, it was being reported everywhere. You know, look, we know these people, Tulsi Gabbard. We know Matt Gaetz. We know we've worked with these people day in and day out. We've been through every kind of battle with them. I mean, I was with Matt Gaetz on January 6, 2021, where when we came back after we were forced to evacuate because the insurrectionists had invaded the chambers, he blamed it immediately on Antifa. He got up on the floor and he said, it's already being determined, and reported that it's Antifa that's behind this. And he has been essentially a 1-6-denier ever since. He's tried to blame it on everybody but the people who actually organized it, staged it, incited it, and executed the plan. And he talks about feds and FBI agents. He traffics routinely in conspiracy theory. But we've mixed it up many times. My staff people were sending me a whole bunch of exchanges between us on a lot of different things. I mean, he defended those people who were just blowing off their subpoenas to come to the January 6th committee, and he had no problem with that. And I said, don't you think, as a matter of law, that everybody at least needs to go when they're being subpoenaed to a court or to Congress and to plead the Fifth or invoke a privilege, you can't just sit on the couch and let it go. But he was defending that, and now he wants to be Attorney General of the United States. There is, you know, an alternate theory out there, which is they never seriously thought he could become Attorney General or they don't seriously think it. Rather, Donald Trump was doing a favor to his friend Matt Gaetz because Matt Gaetz was able to resign from Congress and thereby, at least theoretically, hold the report in abeyance, if not completely suppress it, on the theory that he's going to be Attorney General of the United States. Then when we get into January, he could say, well, the RINOs in the Senate won't vote on me, so I'm going to go back to Congress, because, after all, he's been elected with those of us who've been reelected to be sworn in in the 119th Congress. He just resigned from the 118th Congress. A lot of people aren't really making that distinction.

[Jamie Raskin]

Yeah, no, I noticed that last night. That, okay, he's resigned from this one, but he's elected to the next one, so he can show up if he wants to as a newly elected member. This is about the House of Representatives. I learned something about recess appointments that I didn't know because it's such a rare thing. I mean, it happens every once in a while. But I didn't realize that it's not just the Senate that has to be in recess. The House has to be in recess, too. It really has to be a full shutdown of Congress. There are. Republican John Thune said, I don't think I can get the votes to recess the Senate. He doesn't think he can get the Republican votes to do it. Would the House Republicans, we don't know how many there are going to be yet. And Donald Trump seems to be chipping away at them by putting them in his administration. But would the House be able to vote to recess or would that be a tough vote for Republicans to cast for, you know, the half a dozen that could make a difference?

[John Thune]

Yeah, I mean, there's.

[Jamie Raskin]

There's only handful at the margin.

[John Thune]

There's a handful left for whom that might be a tough vote. Then again, they might figure it's far enough away from the next election that it wouldn't be a big deal. I mean, the whole thing is constitutionally dubious. I mean, the Supreme Court in the most recent case on this, the Noel Cannon case, said, okay, yeah, that the President can make recess appointments on an intra session as well as an intercession basis. But it didn't find that recesses could be called for the purposes of evading the constitutional responsibility of advice and consent. As you know, this is the central function of the Senate. I mean, that's the reason a lot of people want to leave the House and go to the Senate so they can participate in advice and consent and selection of. Of executive branch and judicial nominees.

[Jamie Raskin]

Yeah. The Supreme Court was just trying to say they were trying to define what a real recess is in that decision. Right. They struggled with that.

[John Thune]

They said it's around 10 days. We accept 10 days.

[Pete Buttigieg]

Yeah.

[Jamie Raskin]

But the idea that, like, oh, the recess was just to bypass confirmation hearings.

[John Thune]

That doesn't feel like a real recess. So, you know what's interesting is all four of these controversial appointments over the last couple of days tell us that the mega takeover of the GOP is complete, and they want the mega takeover of government to be complete. That old Republican Party is gone, gone, gone. You know, with Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger and Mitt Romney, it's not there anymore. And this is just a carnival of grotesquery and fanaticism, the kind of thing that we've had to live with in the Oversight Committee, the Judiciary Committee throughout the House. But now it's being elevated to cabinet level appointments.

[Jamie Raskin]

Congressman Jamie Raskin, thank you so much for joining us. Senator Amy Klobuchar is going to be staring that grotesquerie in the face in confirmation hearings and she's going to join us next. Thank you. You say Gates will not be confirmed. Why bother with the nomination then? You could talk to president. But it's a good, it's a good deflection from others, but it also gives, I'll let it stand with that. No, I mean, just provide us some thinking into, you know, what Trump had in mind when he made that nomination. Is it a case of, you know, you win some, lose some? It is a negotiating tactic.

[Amy Klobuchar]

What is it?

[John Thune]

You'd have to ask President.

[Jamie Raskin]

But Gates couldn't win in a Republican conference, so it doesn't matter. Another Republican who hates Matt Gaetz. Joining us now is Democratic Senator Amy Klobuchar of Minnesota. She's chair of the Senate Rules Committee and more importantly tonight, she's a member of the Senate Judiciary Committee. Senator, you are going to have Matt Gaetz in a confirmation hearing.

[Amy Klobuchar]

Yes. I loved when you said to Jamie Raskin he was in his workplace. He's now coming to mind.

[Jamie Raskin]

Yeah, he's coming to yours. And he. Is he going to bring his Ethics Committee report with him or are you going to get that report?

[Amy Klobuchar]

I was pleasantly surprised after Senator Durbin and a number of us sent a very forceful letter saying we want this report. By the way, there is a history of release of these reports for both Republican senators, Democratic House members that Senator Cornyn actually said he wanted to see it as well. And he's a significant person on the Judiciary Committee. Republican. So I think there is going to be widespread opposition to this candidate. I notice that Lisa Murkowski, who always been true to herself, has already said, I don't think it's a serious nomination. Conservative Senator Kramer of North Dakota said it's a long shot. My favorite might have been the conservative commentator Ben Dominic who said that he's absolutely vile. You can't have. I was listening to Jamie and it is true. Like this is constitutional integrity. This is the future of our government. But it's also gonna matter to people in their everyday lives. They supervise 115,000 people, hard working prosecutors, FBI agents, people who are just doing their jobs. And when you look at the kind of work they do, protect people from scams, prosecute fentanyl dealers. This is real work. And you can't have someone like this, who is himself a subject of an investigation on sex trafficking and illicit drug use, take over the Justice Department.

[Jamie Raskin]

So I heard everything that I was hoping to hear from the next Republican leader of the Senate, John Thune, today. When he was asked about recess appointments, he said he wants to have confirmation hearings. Of course, he wasn't going to say absolutely no to Donald Trump's desire for recess appointments, but he said everything he possibly could say about the regular process of having confirmation hearings. He also made the point that he might not have the votes to put the Senate in recess. He might not even be able to get a recess. Republican senators might not vote for it.

[Amy Klobuchar]

Exactly. And I think Jon Thune is simply telling the truth. He's a conservative, he is an even mannered person. But what he's saying here is you gotta have the votes to do it. The Supreme Court has already said on a 90 decision written by Justice Breyer that Congress has a right to make their own decisions about a recess, but they'd have to have the votes to get that recess appointment. And I just think there are too many people in the Senate who believe in the system of checks and balances. Now, they're not going to vote like I do on every nominee. We're going to have an agreement on everything. But they believe there has to be a check and balance. That is the role of the Senate, no matter who is president. And this just cries out for a check and balance to take that pause, to look at someone's record. I don't think with Matt Gaetz it's even may get to that point. But with a number of these nominees so that we can figure out exactly what their background is, get the FBI report and go from there and then make a decision.

[Jamie Raskin]

Robert Kerty Jr. You will have a vote on his nomination on the Senate floor. As I made the point before, and I don't think this is widely known, Health and Human Services Secretary has to go through two confirmation hearings. It's not the only one. There are other nominees who have. The jurisdiction is shared by more than one committee, but that one has to go through two different hearings. And, you know, I just can't imagine a minute of a hearing with him.

[Amy Klobuchar]

Right. Well, you have all the conspiracy theories about vaccines. You've got the fact, his most recent thing, that he doesn't want to have fluoride and water his campaign, I guess, for more cavities, it's going to. Some of it will be ridiculous, but some of it is dead serious. That job of hhs, one of the proudest accomplishments of my work, as well as a number of other senators in the Biden administration, has been the prescription drug negotiation. Just the first 10 drugs announced by Secretary Becerra is going to save 9 million seniors $1.5 billion in out of pocket costs in one year. The next 15 are coming up, the next 15 after that. So there's actual work that goes on beyond the concern that this is someone that doesn't believe in science. You want to have someone in charge of that department that's looking out for our seniors, looking out for people's drug costs. You know, the American people are concerned about costs and they wanted to see change, but they don't want to see change that's going to cost them more money and bring them backwards.

[Jamie Raskin]

Can Robert Kennedy get confirmed in this Senate again?

[Amy Klobuchar]

If I were to predict with the magic crystal ball, I'd say no. But again, you never know. This is on the Republicans, right? We will. I mean, I will say on Matt Gaetz. I'm not going to go into every nominee. I don't believe there'll be a Democratic vote. I usually don't say that, but I can say that now. But when it comes to a nominee by Kennedy, the Republicans are going to have to deal with this. They have got to decide if this is someone they want as head of hhs. They're going to have to decide who they want as defense secretary. In the end, this is going to be on them. They've got the votes to make it or break it, and it's on them to make this independent investigation.

[Jamie Raskin]

Senator Amy Klobuchar, who's working on her confirmation hearing questions for Matt Gaetz. Thank you very much for joining us tonight.

[Amy Klobuchar]

Thank you, Lawrence.

[Jamie Raskin]

We'll be right back. Senator Amy Klobuchar gets tonight's last word.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Have you met All Modern? All Modern brings you the best of modern furniture and decor. And right now through November 20th, you'll score up to 50% off during their early access to Black Friday sale. Simplify your holiday entertaining with deals on plush sofas, modern tabletop essentials and more. All on sale at All Modern. Then get them delivered for free in days. You heard that right. Days. That's modern made simple. Shop AllModern's early access to Black Friday sale now through November 20th at AllModern dot com.