← The Last Word with Lawrence O’Donnell
The Last Word with Lawrence O’Donnell
Senate votes to avert government shutdown
00:42:19
Tonight on The Last Word: Donald Trump’s trade war creates global unease and market chaos. Also, Trump gives a politicized speech inside the Justice Department’s Great Hall. Plus, Vladimir Putin launches new strikes despite ongoing peace negotiations. And Republicans are advised to avoid in-person town halls. Sen. Peter Welch, Andrew Weissmann, Army Lt. Col. Alexander Vindman (ret.), and Jane Kleeb join Ali Velshi.
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- [00:01]
MSNBC Host
Stay connected with the MSNBC app bringing you breaking news and analysis anytime, anywhere.
- [00:07]
Ali Velshi
Let's get up to speed. We've got some breaking news right now.
- [00:10]
MSNBC Host
Watch your favorite shows live.
- [00:12]
Jen Psaki
There's a lot happening here in Washington as Donald Trump's second term starts to take shape.
- [00:17]
MSNBC Host
Read live blogs and in depth essays and listen to coverage as it unfolds. Go beyond the what to understand the why. Download the app now@msnbc.com app MSNBC presents a new original podcast hosted by Jen Psaki. Each week she and her guests explore how the Democratic Party is facing this political moment and where it's headed next.
- [00:42]
Jen Psaki
There's probably both messaging and policy issues, but as you look to kind of where the Democratic Party is, do you think it's more a messaging issue, more a policy issue?
- [00:52]
MSNBC Host
The Blueprint with Jen Psaki. Subscribe to MSNBC Premium on Apple podcasts for ad free listening and bonus content.
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Ali Velshi
Now it's time for the Last Word with Ali Velshi.
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Andrew Weissman
Good evening, Ali.
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Ali Velshi
Yeah, I'm one of those. I'm down on social media generally and Blue sky reminds me of what social media was years ago when people engaged in a respectful fashion. And I enjoy that. I like a good kebab and I probably, if I lived in Haddon County, New Jersey, I'd probably go to Jersey Kebab. But those folks that you talked about at the top of your show who were protesting to get the the Emanet family Amin Emanet released, they weren't doing it for the kebabs. You know, that was community. That was something that was worth everybody in America seeing. These are just people who believe that a member of their community was being treated unfairly and possibly illegally and they wanted to show their support. I think the kebabs are incidental to that. That was a good and important message. Oh, thank you.
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Andrew Weissman
I mean, for me, what was really important about that, Ali, was just that what they were doing was not rocket science. What they were doing was the kind.
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Ali Velshi
Of stuff you learn in third grade civics class. You know what I mean?
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Andrew Weissman
Write letters, talk to your local officials, have a protest, engage people, talk to the local media. They just pulled out the stops.
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Ali Velshi
They didn't do anything radical.
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Andrew Weissman
They just stood up decently for somebody in their community. And I just felt like it was a real model. Haddon Township, New Jersey, what they did there.
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Ali Velshi
And it worked. A basic democratic agency is what they were doing. Yeah.
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Andrew Weissman
And basic decency, looking out for your neighbors. It was a good one.
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Ali Velshi
So far it's working. So thanks for that story. You have yourself a great weekend. Thanks, Ali. Well, a government shutdown was averted tonight after the Senate approved a Republican written funding bill through September 30th. Now, in the end, 10 Senate Democrats cast the procedural vote to allow the funding bill to be brought to a vote, including several liberal senators who did so over their own objections. Senator Brian Schatz said a shutdown would enable Donald Trump and Elon Musk to unilaterally determine that the vast majority of federal workers are not essential. I understand people's frustration. I share it. But Trump and the Republicans who control both chambers of Congress presented us with a bad choice and a worse choice. Both would produce terrible outcomes. But a shutdown would be more devastating for everyone. We're in a fight for democracy itself. We can't let disagreements about strategy and tactics divide us. We need to focus our energy on the real villain, Donald Trump, end quote. Here are some things to focus on right now. Thanks to Trump's erratic tariff war, US stocks have lost $5 trillion in value in three weeks. That's your 401 or IRA. The stock market tailspin has led to a major drop in consumer confidence. The University of Michigan, which is noted for its famed Consumer Sentiment Index. That index has fallen 11% since February. As the director of Surveys of Consumers at the University of Michigan puts it, quote, frequent gyrations in economic policies make it very difficult for consumers to plan for the future, regardless of one's policy preferences, end quote. Well said. Doesn't really matter where you stand on stuff. What you've been seeing for the last three weeks, four weeks, is not policy. It's just weird, meaningless gyration. Voter distress and anger is not just showing up, by the way, in these dry economic reports. Axios is a focus group of Michigan voters who backed Joe Biden in 2020. They flipped over to Donald Trump in 2024. These are voters that largely flipped because of high prices and inflation. And Axios reports that they're having some serious buyer's remorse. Erratic, frightening, disruptive, and dictator were among the words they used to describe their concerns. Michael L. 43, of Commerce Township said Trump campaigned on lowering prices and making things more affordable for working class people. He's moving in the opposite direction, end quote. He conceded that Trump had previewed tariffs during the campaign, but said, we didn't necessarily think it would be this much this fast, end quote. Which is weird because Trump kept saying tariffs are the most beautiful word in the English language. Axios described how the tariffs are hurting the Michigan economy, specifically One participant who does home remodeling worried about tariffs raising the price of wood and causing clients to drop their remodeling plans. Another voter who owns a health and weight loss business said most of her clients are in the auto industry. If they're hit, it could devastate her. One said she worked in the auto industry and just got furloughed because we're not building any cars right now, end quote. For working people, the job market's been made uncertain by Trump's tariff threats. Meanwhile, for retirees and others who are among the 73 million Americans who receive entitlements, their financial security could now restrict. Rest with Elon Musk, the richest man in the world who has falsely and repeatedly said that Social Security is riddled with fraud. Elon Musk will never need Social Security. Elon Musk's parents and Elon Musk's several children will never need Social Security. ProPublica reports that even Trump's acting commissioner of the Social Security Administration, a man named Leland Dudek, is concerned about Elon Musk and Doge, quote, I don't want the system to collapse, dudek said in a closed door meeting last week, according to a recording obtained by ProPublica. He said, quote, it would be catastrophic for the people in our country if Doge were to make changes at his agency that were as sweeping as those at usaid, the Treasury Department and elsewhere. When a participant in the meeting asked him why he wouldn't move more forcefully to call out President Trump and his continued false claims about widespread Social Security fraud as bs, Dudek answered, so we published for the record what the actual numbers were that are there on our website. This is dealing with. Have you ever worked with someone who's manic depressive? End quote. Well, that should reassure grandma. Some number of these Trump 2.0 enablers don't agree with what they're doing at all. They know that it's bad for the country. They know that it's being done for reasons that are based on lies, and they do it anyway. Case in point, here is the esteemed Secretary of State Marco Rubio today in Canada humiliating himself, or rather doing something he probably doesn't agree with, talking about Canada becoming an American state.
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Peter Welch
The Canadian government has made their position, how they feel about it clear. The President has made his argument as to why he thinks Canada would be better off joining the United States for economic purposes. There's a disagreement between the President's position and the position of the Canadian government. I don't think that's a mystery coming in. And it wasn't a topic of conversation because that's not what the summit was.
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Ali Velshi
About that set up the new Canadian Prime Minister Mark Carney's first major statement minutes after he was sworn in as prime minister today. As you can tell, Prime Minister Carney feels that this is an issue that polls at about 100% to zero in Canada.
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Peter Welch
It's crazy.
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Ali Velshi
His point is crazy.
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Peter Welch
That's it.
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Ali Velshi
We will never, ever in any way, shape or form be part of the United States. America is not Canada. A new Reuters poll shows that only 32% approve of the job that Donald Trump is doing to bring down the cost of living, while a whopping 70% believe, correctly, that tariffs will raise prices, a number that includes 60% of Republicans. Joining us now is the Democratic Senator Peter Welch of Vermont. He serves on the Senate Finance Committee and the Senate Judiciary Committee and lives awful close to Canada and understands pretty well not just the remarkable trade relationships that go on between Canada and the United States, which are like no other two countries in the world. But that's not really the point. As a Vermonter, you understand that the deeper cultural relationships that are getting fractured right now may even be more of a long term worry.
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Alexander Vindman
Well, that's really true. You know, our kids play hockey back and forth. We've got a library in Derby, Vermont, where half of it is in Vermont and half of it is in Canada. These are our friends and they come down and we're glad to see them. And we go up there and we're glad to see them. But also, you know, they're our biggest trading partner for Vermont. But Vermont is one of 34 states where Canada is our biggest trading partner. So this is very destructive for our economy in Vermont and for those other states that trade so much with them. And by the way, they're really angry at this absurd idea that Canada will become a 51st state. And what is, what's happening is that now we're seeing retaliatory tariffs, understandably. And that's going to hurt us on housing prices, it's going to hurt us on electric prices. We get our electricity from them. Home heating fuel and gasoline could go up 40 cents a gallon. So thank you, President Trump. This is absolutely reckless and destructive for the economy and it's going to boost inflation and expenses for folks trying to pay their bills at the end of the month.
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Ali Velshi
I don't know what your incoming phone calls are looking like tonight or emails, but there are a lot of people frustrated that a lot of Democrats went along with the budget. And the budget is being passed. And there were good reasons given for why Democrats supported it. But that budget is going to be devastating. And part of that is because in order to pay for Donald Trump's extension of his tax cuts, which they don't want to put on the books, they don't want to talk about that $4.5 trillion, more than a trillion dollars in cuts to people who need them. There's a sense here that once again, the rich will do well at the expense of those who most need it.
- [10:31]
Alexander Vindman
Well, that's exactly the plan, you know, and the biggest targets are Social Security, where they're really starting to cut back on service. And that was one of the things that was so bad in this continuing resolution. But the Medicaid, you know, so many of our older folks, two out of three people in nursing homes depend on Medicaid. Our kids are on Medicaid. And in addition to that, this will be devastating to over 700 community hospitals that are on financial thin ice right now. And if you take away Medicaid for folks who need it, for the folks in nursing homes, these institutions that are so vital to our communities are going to get hammered and probably closed. This is a callous and reckless proposal by the House Republicans and Donald Trump.
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Ali Velshi
Let's talk about some of these things. You talked about Medicaid. We're talking about 800 plus billion in cuts there. You talk about community health centers, nursing homes, Johns Hopkins talking about laying off tooth, the National Institutes of Health being cut. This is not just the care that you need, that you'll need if you're in Vermont or anywhere else in this country in these health centers that you need. It's the care you don't even know you're going to get in the future. It's the diseases that are being solved that are being treated right now. Scientists working on things that we don't even know about. And it's fine. That we don't know about. They're going to keep us alive 25 years from now.
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Alexander Vindman
No, that's exactly right. They're cutting the National Institute of Health, they're cutting center for Disease Control, they're cutting aid to help for hospitals and direct services. And that's everything from kids who need vaccinations to seniors who need a nursing home. And by the way, what's it for? It's for the Elon Musk of the world who are billionaires and will get this tax cut. We're literally under the House bill going into Raid Medicaid and other programs like veterans. 7,000 veterans have already been fired. Thank you, Elon Musk. And that's going to be used to help pay for these tax cuts for literally billionaires and very well to do multinational corporations.
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Ali Velshi
And waste, fraud and abuse. It's catchy. They use that terminology in every language in every country. Everybody wants to not have waste, fraud and abuse and pay lower taxes. That's fine. But. But Elon Musk has now just put this into his vernacular. Let me tell you what he said about Social Security here. The goal here is let's not have America go bankrupt with waste and fraud. The waste and fraud in entitlement spending, which is most of the federal spending, is entitlements. So that's like the big one to eliminate. I mean, he's empirically a smart guy, but the words he just said there, the waste and fraud in entitlement spending, which is most of the federal spending is entitlements. So that's the big one to eliminate. He's saying things that aren't actually the issue. The issue with Social Security is not waste, fraud and abuse.
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Alexander Vindman
Well, two things. First of all, that clip shows why in the world does that guy have anything to do with making decisions that affect everyday Americans? Why in the world is he the top Trump adviser who is essentially a cabinet of one that's so callous and out of touch? Second, his plan has nothing to do with waste, fraud and abuse. If he was going to be doing that, he'd be checking. He'd be kicking the tires in the various agencies because all of us would like to be able to do it better and cheaper. But you got to look at it. What he's done is gotten an email list of all the folks who are in the department and then he sent them emails telling them they're fired for bad performance, even though the day before they got a very good review. And he's essentially trying to pile up a body count of people that he fires recklessly and arbitrarily and call that, quote, savings. So this is not about waste, fraud and abuse, about the destruction of important governmental programs and total cruelty to folks who have been working hard for the American people for decades.
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Ali Velshi
You're on the Finance Committee, which means you were involved in the hearing for Dr. Oz to be the Medicaid, Medicare and Medicaid administrator. You asked him if he would commit to not cutting Medicaid. You didn't get a satisfactory answer.
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Alexander Vindman
Well, I didn't. You know, he said he, quote, cherishes Medicaid Right. But on the other hand, the House reconciliation bill, and that's the prelude to their tax cut bill, is directing the Energy and Commerce Committee to reduce to find savings of $800 billion. The only way you can do that is by dramatic cuts in Medicaid. So the question to Oz is are you going to defend the program you cherish? And he has no answer. So it's lip service. That's one. And the other is there is a charade that we all know it doesn't matter who the cabinet officer is. Doge is in charge, Musk is in charge. And that's who Donald Trump defers to.
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Andrew Weissman
Yeah.
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Ali Velshi
It's important for voters wherever you are on the political spectrum to understand who's actually running things these days. Senator, good to see you as always. Thank you for joining us. Senator Peter Welsh of Vermont. All right, Coming up, we've got we've lost count of the number of awful things that Donald Trump has done, but his speech today at the Justice Department was unprecedented. A former prosecutor who Trump called out by name. My colleague Andrew Weissman joins us next.
- [16:02]
MSNBC Host
Stay connected with the MSNBC app bringing you breaking news and analysis anytime, anywhere.
- [16:09]
Ali Velshi
Let's get up to speed. We've got some breaking news right now.
- [16:12]
MSNBC Host
Watch your favorite shows live.
- [16:13]
Jen Psaki
There's a lot happening here in Washington as Donald Trump's second term starts to take shape.
- [16:18]
MSNBC Host
Read live blogs and in depth essays and listen to coverage as it unfolds. Go beyond the what to understand the why. Download the app now@msnbc.com app stay up to date on the biggest issues of the day with the MSNBC daily newsletter. Each morning you'll get analysis by experts you trust, video highlights from your favorite shows.
- [16:42]
Ali Velshi
I do think it's worth being very clear eyed, very realistic about what's going on here.
- [16:47]
MSNBC Host
Previews of our podcasts and documents, documentaries, plus written perspectives from the newsmakers themselves, all sent directly to your inbox each morning. Get the best of MSNBC all in one place. Sign up for msnbc daily@msnbc.com the first 100 days, bills are passed, executive orders are signed and presidencies are defined. And for Donald Trump's first 100 days, Rachel Maddow is on MSNBC five nights a week.
- [17:14]
Ali Velshi
Now is the time. So we're gonna do it.
- [17:16]
MSNBC Host
Provide providing her unique insight and analysis during this critical time.
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Andrew Weissman
How do we strategically align ourselves to this moment of information, this moment of.
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Ali Velshi
Transition in our country?
- [17:26]
MSNBC Host
The Rachel Maddows show, weeknights at 9pm Eastern on MSNBC.
- [17:36]
Ali Velshi
America has changed however, Trump 2.0, however it ends. Today's gonna be remembered as a dark day. A day when America took a particularly big step away from democracy on the road toward dictatorship. This afternoon, America's first criminally convicted president delivered a more than an hour long retribution speech at the Great hall of the Department of Justice. The crowd included his former criminal defense attorneys and handpicked crowd boosters. NBC News reports. Career DOJ employees were allowed in by invite only. The room is filled with Trump supporters, including Republican state attorneys general. The message could not have been clearer. Donald Trump is now in charge at Justice. Our predecessors turned this Department of Justice.
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Alexander Vindman
Into the Department of Injustice.
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Ali Velshi
But I stand before you today to declare that those days are over and they are never going to come back. They're never coming back. So now, as the chief law enforcement officer in our country, I will insist upon and demand full and complete accountability for the wrongs and abuses that have occurred as chief law enforcement officer of our country. He just said the founders would not have been keen on that. That is a king, not a president. As the DOJ website says. The Judiciary act of 1789 created the Office of the Attorney General, which evolved over the years into the head of the Department of Just and chief law enforcement officer of the federal government, end quote. The Attorney General, who right now is Trump appointee Pam Bondi, is a Trump former impeachment lawyer. Two of her subordinates are Trump former criminal defense attorneys Todd Blanche and Emil Bovey, whose legal defense resulted in 34 felony convictions against Trump. All three introduced Trump before his speech and Trump thanked two of them for helping him in his personal criminal prosecutions and in Blanche and Bovey's case, failing to help him beat 34 criminal indictments in Manhattan. Pressure. I saw these guys under some of the most corrupt judges I've. It's not even imaginable how corrupt they were. And these guys never wilted. They never, they were not shy, they fought. No evidence of what that corruption actually was. Trump is praising his criminal defense attorneys. In the workplace of the prosecutors who investigated him, Trump is attacking the judges who presided over his criminal case. Trump lavished praise upon his favorite federal judge, Aileen Cannon, and suggested that it is illegal to criticize the judges whom he likes. It's influencing judges and it's really changing law and it just cannot be legal. I don't believe it's legal. Trump said he wants fair courts. Elon Musk once again is openly pushing to impeach judges. This after yesterday's breaking news that two federal courts ruled against Doge mass firings and ordered federal employees to be restored, at least for now, to their jobs. Now, I know, I know it's Trump. And in some sense, none of that is new. All the words, all the grievances, all the rants, you've heard it before, but this is not normal. It was about at this point during Donald Trump's first term that a scandal broke out inside the Justice Department. In March of 2017, New York's then top federal prosecutor, this man, Preet Bharara, refused to take a phone call from Donald Trump and got fired. Preet Bharara fell on the sword rather than take a phone call from President Trump because that would have been an insult to the integrity and independence of his office. We are so very far from that moment now and today marked another step away. Joining us now, Andrew Weissman, former FBI general counsel, former chief of the Criminal division in the Eastern District of New York. He's also an MSNBC legal analyst. What do you make of that speech that he gave today? Because there is this question that everything Donald Trump says is outside of the norm. And to some degree that's become normalized. It shouldn't be. But it's more than that. He said things that were not only untrue, but if accepted, compromise our system of laws and governance.
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Andrew Weissman
Yeah, well, there's a lot to be said. I do think it's worth noting something that you picked up on is who was there. And it was not a speech that was given to the career men and women of the Justice Department. This was a hand selected group of people, some from the department, some not from the department. But that's notable. Normally when you have an incoming administration, one the president usually is not there talking to them, but there's nothing that prohibits that, especially if it was going to be a speech about policy. But here it was not given to the sort of ordinary men and women. It was this was trying to be much more of a campaign speech. And so I don't think that it is reflective of where the department as a whole is. There's still lots of men and women in the department who are there to do the right thing, even if the leadership isn't. Second, everything about the speech conveyed the lack of independence of the department from the White House. And that is what separates us from an autocracy, that independence is a norm and it's not a law. But that is a norm. That is, there is good reason that Republican and Democratic presidents have adhered to that norm because they understand how dangerous it is that's gone. Completely gone. And then the final thing is it's really notable. They're just, they're really other than the courts. As we were saying as we were waiting for this segment, is other than the courts, there are no checks on this president. You really get the sense that it is so different than the first Trump administration. This I don't think could have happened in the first Trump administration. Administration. And a good sign of that is today he issued yet another broadside on a defense firm. There's now another firm, Paul Weiss, incredibly eminent firm. He issued it after a judge found unconstitutional the one that he issued just the other day.
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Ali Velshi
Right. He had told the government they can't do business, they have to cancel all their contracts with particular law firms that he's got some beef with.
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Andrew Weissman
Right. But here's a president who's like, oh, a court said, I can't do it, I'm doing it again. That is what we're dealing with. And so your point that you've got a adjudicated convicted criminal as the president, you can see it because you have a court that has said, you cannot do this. And it is having zero effect on the fact that he just did it again to another respected firm.
- [24:34]
Ali Velshi
There is a chill that is setting in because of the firings, the threats, the law firms, the universities, dropping people's names randomly. You were one of the lucky ones today. Talk to me about that. And I know you're an outward facing guy, you're out there, you've probably heard a lot of things in your life, a lot of threats, like journalists, you face a lot of stuff. But talk to me about the, the effect of these types of things. The naming of people, the going after people, the threatening of people.
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Andrew Weissman
Well, it's about the chilling effect. I mean, if you look at the strategy now, whether, I mean, again, I never like personalizing because I'm supposed to be here analyzing the situation. So leaving sort of me aside, the whole idea is to divide and conquer. If you issue a threat on Covington Burling, a reputable law firm firm, the idea is all law firms, think about it. If you have a threat against a company, then you're sitting there going, well, I don't want to be the next company. I mean, that is a classic tactic of using fear. The concern about the fact that this is the leader of the free world, taking steps. That is not a fun thing to be at the other end of it. It can have enormous consequences in terms of business, in terms of reputation, in terms of the work that a university does for its students, for its faculty. And so that's the kind of thing that you have to figure out how to deal with. But the one thing I would say is if you do not unite, if you do not sort of stand your ground together, then you are caving.
- [26:09]
Ali Velshi
Let's talk about the fact that to a large degree, the courts are the only bulwark that we've got. There are people, by the way, let's not forget people and their votes and their demonstrations and their phone calls. That is actually happening. It's not happening the same as it was in Trump 1.0, with massive rallies, but there are protests going on around this country. But talk to me about how well you think the courts are doing at the moment.
- [26:32]
Andrew Weissman
You know what I think, leaving aside the Supreme Court, where we really don't know the answer, but there are signs from the fact that we've had a couple, five, four decisions that have been against Donald Trump recently that we are seeing the courts do their job and being fearless in doing that. Birthright citizenship has been sort of resoundedly by Republican appointed and Democratic appointed judges saying can't do it, unconstitutional. The firing of probationary employees, two federal judges both said the exact same thing. You have Beryl Howell saying, you know what, these executive orders fly in the face of the First Amendment. And so I do think that you are seeing the judges do what they are supposed to do. And the one moral from this is, I would say to the members of Congress is look at, look over there. They're doing their job.
- [27:32]
Ali Velshi
Why don't you as well, you should.
- [27:34]
Andrew Weissman
As well and not be thinking, you know what, I don't have to do it because they're doing it, because I just don't think that is going to be enough in this country. And of course, the people are the ultimate check. But you know, an election isn't going to happen for a while. So right now, in terms of the interim check, there are just a few senators who could put a stop to all of this. And it's really impossible to think that there aren't senators who know darn well that this isn't sort of commensurate with what the Constitution requires and what the oath of office requires.
- [28:05]
Ali Velshi
So where there are lower courts who say things like this goes against the First Amendment or this goes against the 14th Amendment, does all of this, and by the way, the speech that Donald Trump gave at the Department of Justice, does this make it harder for John Roberts and the conservatives on the court to defend Donald Trump, because he flouts what we know to be law. I mean, he said at some point in his speech, right, that can't be legal. Donald Trump knows what's legal and what's not. There's no mystery here.
- [28:32]
Andrew Weissman
Yeah, well, just one aside on that, when he's saying, you know, it should be illegal to criticize judges. So that, of course, is the First Amendment allows you to do that.
- [28:41]
Ali Velshi
And he takes advantage of that a lot.
- [28:43]
Andrew Weissman
Yes, absolutely. So, first of all, he has been criticizing judges. So, like, the irony of that is there's no logic, there's no through line. By the way, if it's illegal to criticize Judges, then the 11th Circuit, a very conservative circuit, reverse Judge Cannon in fairly scathing language, not once, but twice. Were they committing a crime and were they just some part of the sort of liberal establishment that has now suddenly taken over the 11th Circuit? I do think that the further he goes, the harder it is to win over two critical votes that he needs. And the swing votes now are the chief justice and Amy Coney Barrett. And, you know, if you keep doing this, we saw something like this happen right after 9 11, where the administration sort of went too far in the war on terrorism. And you saw even sort of conservative justices saying, you know what, you do not need more than what is given in the military courts to fight this and sort of pushing back. So there is, you know, that which is, you know, what is the external expression that, you know, pigs get fat and hogs get slaughtered. You know, you have to be careful.
- [29:55]
Ali Velshi
Andrew, good to see you as always. Thank you. You too, Andrew Weissman. All right, coming up, Donald Trump's day one campaign promise was to end the war in Ukraine. It's day 54 of Donald Trump's second term and Vladimir Putin is still launching missile strikes aimed at Ukraine's hospitals and first responders. So much for Donald Trump's day one promise. The retired Lieutenant Colonel Alexander Vindman. Vindman joins me next.
- [30:21]
MSNBC Host
Auto insurance can all seem the same.
- [30:23]
Ali Velshi
Until it comes time to use it.
- [30:24]
MSNBC Host
So don't get stuck paying more for less coverage. Switch to USAA auto insurance and you could start saving money in no time. Get a quote today, restrictions apply. Usaa Stay connected with the MSNBC app bringing you breaking news and analysis anytime, anywhere.
- [30:43]
Ali Velshi
Let's get up to speed. We've got some breaking news right now.
- [30:46]
MSNBC Host
Watch your favorite shows live.
- [30:48]
Jen Psaki
There's a lot happening here in Washington as Donald Trump's second term starts to take shape.
- [30:52]
MSNBC Host
Read live blogs and in depth essays and listen to coverage as it unfolds. Go beyond the what to understand the why. Download the app now@msnbc.com app.
- [31:10]
Ali Velshi
All right, here's the state of the Trump proposed 30 day Russia, Ukraine ceasefire offer President Vladimir Putin of Russia on Friday insisted that Ukraine order some of its forces in the Kursk region of Russia to surrender to Russia. Striking demand made hours after President Trump said the United States had, quote, very good and productive, end quote, discussions with Mr. Putin about a potential ceasefire. Mr. Putin said that for Mr. Trump's call to be effectively implemented, the leaders of Ukraine needed to order their military units to lay down their arms and surrender. Neither man, neither Trump nor Putin has raised the idea of Russian troops who are on Ukrainian territory surrendering. Remember, Donald Trump's campaign pitch was that he would end the war on day one of his presidency. This morning, a Russian missile struck a hospital in the Kharkiv region. Ukrainian officials say that attack was followed by two more strikes, which are believed to be an attempt to hit first responders. Deliberately aiming at those targets, a hospital and first responders would be war crimes. That's what Russia is doing. The day Putin is meeting with Donald Trump's delegation in Moscow. Trump said this afternoon, I think we're doing well now with Russia, really, because it seems like Russia's dictator feels emboldened right now and Putin is the one giving the ultimatums demanding that Russia order its troops to surrender. That's in addition to the list of concessions that Russia demanded yesterday in exchange for a ceasefire deal, international recognition of territory seized by Russia, a commitment that Ukraine won't be allowed to join NATO, and a pledge that European peacekeepers won't enter Ukraine. The Wall Street Journal is slamming Trump's failed ceasefire gambit. The editorial board wrote today, quote, Mr. Putin wants the killing to continue until he gets closer to achieving his war aim of subjugating Ukraine. With his bludgeoning of Ukraine to make a deal without promises of US aid or security, Mr. Trump has given Mr. Putin every incentive to keep the war going, to put himself in the strongest possible position if there ever are serious peace talks. Does Mr. Trump have a plan B beyond beating up Ukraine to make more unilateral concessions, End quote. That's the Wall Street Journal. Joining me now is the retired Lt. Col. Alexander Vindman. He served as the Director for European affairs at the National Security Council during the Trump administration. He's the author of the new book the Folly of Realism, how the West Deceived Itself About Russia and Betrayed Ukraine. Colonel, good to see you. Thank you for being with US. Let's just talk about this plan. I don't even know what to call it. This 30 day ceasefire plan handled in large part by Steve Witkoff, whose claim to fame is a developer and whose remit was supposed to be the Middle East. It doesn't make sense on any level. It doesn't make sense on any level, but if Ukraine doesn't go along with it, Ukraine faces punishment.
- [34:06]
Peter Welch
I think what we have here is a concept of a plan for peace. There is nothing besides what I think is frankly, malicious throwing Ukraine under the bus, maximum malice and maximum ignorance, something I've been repeating often. He doesn't care about Ukraine. He wants to normalize a relationship with Russia. He wants to embrace Russia. He is willing to bend over backwards. Trump is willing to bend over backwards. I don't think he wants to get played. He's willing to go pretty far. I don't think he wants to get played. But that's exactly what, what Putin is doing with him. He's taking everything that Trump has offered thus far, banked it. And now he wants international recognition of, of the territory that Russia is occupying, which is in fact a poison pill, something that's unacceptable to the international community except for rogue regimes and certainly not acceptable to Ukraine. But I think the pressure now there's going to be, I would imagine there's going to be pressure on Ukraine giving up the territory that it has in controlling Russian Federation territory, this, this region of Kursk that the Ukrainians have been fighting in for, for many, many months and holding out. So it's, it's really not much. It doesn't get us anywhere near anything resembles peace. It actually puts it as a much more distant target because the sides are not moving closer together. Russia is asking for more, moving further away from anything that resembles a compromise.
- [35:32]
Ali Velshi
And the world is warning Donald Trump that you're going to get played. In fact, Keir Starmer, the British Prime Minister, has taken up a pretty interesting lead role because should the United States not provide NATO with that sort of nuclear umbrella that it needs? The UK and France do have those capabilities and other countries certainly on the, the NATO borders with Russia spend a great deal on their military. There is a leadership forming across the Atlantic and including Canada on countries that are remaining committed to being on Ukraine's side in this war.
- [36:07]
Peter Welch
Absolutely. I think it's clear from that moment of clarity in the Oval Office where Trump and Vance attempted to beat up on Zelensky, Zelensky stood his ground. You know, that that resulted in a temporary blow up that halted aid and intelligence sharing. But it is also a wake up call for the Europeans and they're moving out. The problem is that they've been been pretty blessed to have NATO and the US as a backbone for NATO for 75 years and didn't have to make their own institutions, their own structures. So they have to build out a whole concept, that whole everything that we've done in 75 years. They have to, in certain regards, start from scratch. Who's going to be leading it? What's the structure, defense spending, who's producing what? These are very, very complex questions that they're now starting to wrestle with. But the resolve is there. They're going to start ramping up. The Ukrainians have something that they could count on. It is Trump does not hold the Trump cards here.
- [37:04]
Ali Velshi
Right.
- [37:04]
Peter Welch
He is leaning on Ukraine, but he doesn't hold the Trump cards. The Ukrainians can't survive. It becomes more pressing and more difficult. And it kind of depends on the Europeans stepping up in a big way and spending money, buying some resources from the US But Trump is not doing anything to move the needle for peace. I think if anything, he's kicked the prospect of peace down the road many, many months. We're probably looking much deeper into 2025 before we have anything resembling legitimate peace talks and maybe even beyond.
- [37:34]
Ali Velshi
Lt. Col. Alexander Vindman, good to see you as always. Thank you for joining us. He is the author of an important new book which is quite relevant to today's events. All right, coming up, Republican lawmakers are getting a rude awakening when they face voters who do not like what they see from Trump. And Elon Musk will show you how one House Republican responded when voters told him they don't want Elon Musk messing with their entitlements. That's next. I was proud to vote recently for the House budget resolution which provides the framework. And you wonder why folks don't want to do these town halls. And you wonder why folks don't want to do these town halls. Wow. That was the Republican Congressman Chuck Edwards, who faced yelling at boo, yelling and booze at a town hall last night in North Carolina in his constituency as he attempted to defend Donald Trump's agenda. And this is just day 54. Congressman Edwards was just the latest in a string of angry town halls with Republican lawmakers hearing firsthand that the public is not on board with what Donald Trump and Elon Musk are doing to the government. We have a constitution. Work to uphold that constitution. I'm assuming that many of you might have Some disagreement with what you see taking place in the White House right now. I believe that the President is very supportive of Ukraine. We should abolish the US Department of Education. The decisions need to be made. Like him or not. Elon Musk has brought a lot of really smart people to Doge. In fact, Republicans fear this backlash from voters so much that Republican leadership and the National Republican Congressional Committee have advised Congressional Republicans against holding in person town halls. This is America. So now, as Republicans hide from their voters, Democrats are seizing the opportunity, launching a series of town halls in Republican held districts, districts in all 50 states to give voters a chance to speak out against this extremist agenda. The Minnesota Governor, Tim Walz will kick off the People's Town Halls this weekend targeting nine districts that are held by Republicans that Democrats believe they could flip in 2026, including in Arizona, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania. The New York Times reports, quote. Separately, Representative Ro Khanna of California has announced plans to hold events this weekend in the districts of three California Republicans, all of whom are in battleground seats. Representative Maxwell Frost, Democrat of Florida, said this week that he was also planning to hold town halls in Republican districts, end quote. Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders has already drawn thousands of people to town halls in Republican districts in Nebraska, Wisconsin, Michigan and Iowa. He's now taking his Fighting Oligarchy series of town halls through Republican districts in Western states with Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio Cortez joining him. Joining us now is the Vice Chair of the Democratic National Committee, Jane Klebb. She's the Nebraska Democratic Party Chair and the new chair of the association of State Democratic Committees. Jane, great to see you. Thank you for being with us.
- [41:08]
Jen Psaki
Thanks. It's been a long time. The last time we saw each other was in Vegas during the caucus. It was cold and rainy.
- [41:14]
Alexander Vindman
It was.
- [41:14]
Ali Velshi
That's a good memory. Nice to see you again, Jane. First of all, I just, I can't talk about the strategy without going back to the Congressman in North Carolina who said, now you know why some people don't want to do these town halls. And the idea that the National Republican Congressional Committee is telling members of Congress, just don't do them, don't talk to your voters.
- [41:38]
Jen Psaki
Republicans are terrified to actually visit with their voters. And of course they are. When you take a chainsaw to the government and you threaten cutting Medicaid, Medicare, Social Security, you don't want to face your voters. And that's exactly what Republicans are doing. And Democrats are saying, we are going to show up. We're going to show up and listen to Voters, we are going to listen to their anger. We are going to deliver what they are saying to the Republican members of Congress in Nebraska, we're actually going to have people write down comments and make a book out of their comments and deliver that to Representative Bacon, who is too scared to show up in person to listen to his voters. And this is happening not just in battleground states. This is happening in all 57 states and territories. Democrats have learned our lesson. We know that we can no longer sit behind computers and computer screens. We have to organize in the states, listen to voters and make sure that we are doing the hard work, not just in D.C. but in the states where organizing matters.
- [42:37]
Ali Velshi
You know, we showed you North Carolina last week. I think we were talking about something in Kansas. It was in very rural Kansas. The accusation was that it was Democratic operatives who had moved in. This was not a place, I think it was four hours from Wichita or something by drive. What do you, how do you deal with the fact that Democrats are going into mixed purple or red areas to say we will listen to your concerns no matter where you are on the political spectrum?
- [43:06]
Jen Psaki
Look, I live in a rural community. I just got back from a rural community. We were doing a fundraiser there. It took about four miles on a dirt road to get where we were holding the fundraiser. We have to show up where folks are. That includes dirt roads, where we're going to be collecting a lot of road dust. We know that Republicans, Democrats and independents all want the same thing. We want our public schools fully funded. We want to make sure that we can go to a hospital not four hours away to have our to have women deliver their babies and to get the proper health care that we need, especially mental health care. We know that veterans want to be able to get the care that they need and not have to drive five hours to a major city. So we're showing up in our rural communities. And it's shameful that Republicans think that Democrats and independents and Republicans don't exist in rural towns and that are angry that the cuts that Elon Musk and Donald Trump are making that were somehow plants. It's shameful that they think that American citizens aren't pissed off that they're making these cuts, that we are somehow just indivisible activists. And indivisible activists have every right to be pissed off and showing up at these events, by the way, because we're Americans and we believe in our First Amendment rights of speech.
- [44:18]
Ali Velshi
Now it's dismissive to them to suggest that real people are not out here doing these things. Real people are mad about what's going on.
- [44:26]
Jen Psaki
That's right. And we have every right to be mad. And everybody has a right to be mad also at Chuck Schumer in the budget votes that were happening today. And obviously, as a Democratic Party leader, I don't get to decide on our Democratic Party's leaders votes. It's my job to build the infrastructure and to make sure that we're electing more Democrats. Now we're looking at building all of these town halls to make sure that all of our voters are actually being heard. Republicans are making sure that nobody gets to get heard in our in our states.
- [44:55]
Ali Velshi
Jane, nice to see you again. Thank you for joining us tonight.
- [44:57]
Jen Psaki
Thanks, Ali.
- [44:58]
Ali Velshi
Jane Klein is the new Nebraska Democratic Party chair. All right. We'll be right back. And a programming note. Tomorrow's Velshi Band Book Club meeting will feature one of the first works of feminist literature in American history, the Awakening by Kate chopin. Written in 1899, it forces the reader to confront an alarming question, how much has really changed for American women in 126 years? I'll discuss it with Columbia University's Rachel Adams and Louisiana Native award winning author Erin and Entrada Kelly. That's tomorrow, 10am on Vel. I hope you'll join us. That's tonight's last word.
- [45:35]
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Ali Velshi
Until it comes time to use it.
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MSNBC Host
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