Snyder: Trump’s candidates constitute attempt to wreck American government

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Last Word with Lawrence O’Donnell Episode: Snyder: Trump’s Candidates Constitute Attempt to Wreck American Government Release Date: November 16, 2024

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Introduction

In this compelling episode of The Last Word with Lawrence O’Donnell, host Lawrence O'Donnell delves into the alarming trajectory of the modern Republican Party under Donald Trump's influence. Drawing insights from renowned Yale history professor Timothy Snyder, the discussion centers on how Trump's selection of cabinet nominees may pose a threat to the foundational structures of American governance.

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Timothy Snyder on Trump’s Cabinet Nominees Timestamp: 01:06 - 07:30

Lawrence introduces Timothy Snyder, an esteemed Yale professor and New York Times bestselling author, to discuss the implications of Trump’s cabinet choices. Snyder presents a dire analysis, arguing that the nominees are not merely unqualified but are actively undermining the American government’s functionality.

• Key Points:

  • Historical Context: Snyder emphasizes that the Senate's role in advising and consenting to executive appointments is more crucial than ever.
  • Nominee Analysis: He critiques nominees like Doug Burgum, Matt Gaetz, Robert F. Kennedy Jr., Tulsi Gabbard, and others, highlighting their lack of qualifications and potential to cause governmental dysfunction.
  • Example of Matt Gaetz: Snyder points out Gaetz’s embodiment of lawlessness, stating, “Matt Gaetz...can be counted upon to abuse law to pursue Trump's political opponents.” (07:30)

• Notable Quotes:

  • Snyder: “These appointments...suggest an attempt to actually make the American government dysfunctional, to pervert it, to have it do things that it's not supposed to do until it's not capable of doing anything at all.” (07:30)
  • Ali Velshi: “You have to maintain your own sense of what is good.” (11:35)

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Media Distrust and the Rise of News Deserts Timestamp: 16:15 - 25:27

The conversation shifts to the deteriorating trust in media and the emergence of news deserts—regions with limited access to reliable local news. Guests Will Bunch, a columnist at the Philadelphia Inquirer, and Tom Nichols, an author for The Atlantic, discuss how these factors contribute to a poorly informed electorate, which Snyder links to Trump's political resilience.

• Key Points:

  • Trust in Media: Bunch highlights that trust in media has plummeted to historic lows, affecting civic engagement and the quality of information.
  • News Deserts: The lack of local news sources allows for the proliferation of disinformation and propaganda.
  • Public Responsibility: Nichols argues that societal shifts towards entertainment over information contribute to the problem, questioning how to rekindle public interest in substantive news.

• Notable Quotes:

  • Will Bunch: “Journalists who were in your community...created a climate of civic engagement, you know, positive information, positive conversation.” (17:36)
  • Tom Nichols: “People always want entertainment.” (23:45)

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Russian Propaganda and American Media Parallel Timestamp: 25:46 - 34:03

Host Ali Velshi explores the unsettling similarities between Russian state propaganda and certain American media practices. Dr. Kelly Morrison, a media analyst, provides firsthand insights from her experience monitoring Russian state TV, drawing parallels to the hostile media environment in the U.S.

• Key Points:

  • Propaganda Techniques: Morrison describes Russian media’s blatant dehumanization and vilification tactics, particularly against groups like Jewish communities and political figures like George Soros.
  • Impact on Society: The episode highlights how such propaganda seeks to manipulate public perception and policy, resembling some narratives propagated within American media outlets.
  • Cultural Reflection: Morrison reflects on the ironic possibility of America adopting authoritarian media practices, contrary to post-Soviet expectations.

• Notable Quotes:

  • Dr. Kelly Morrison: “They're all state controlled. And they were amazing in that they...were all going to get just as much from this.” (30:29)
  • Ali Velshi: “We are growing into it.” (31:27)

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Infowars Acquisition by The Onion Timestamp: 34:03 - 38:43

The episode covers the significant legal victory of the Sandy Hook families against Alex Jones, leading to the acquisition of his platform Infowars by the satirical news site The Onion. Chris Matei, lead counsel for the Sandy Hook families, explains the strategic implications of this move.

• Key Points:

  • Legal Outcome: A $1.4 billion defamation judgment against Alex Jones for promoting falsehoods about the Sandy Hook massacre has led to Jones' bankruptcy.
  • Acquisition Details: The Onion’s purchase of Infowars aims to repurpose the platform to mock and counteract conspiracy theories, potentially curbing the spread of misinformation.
  • Long-term Impact: This move signifies a novel approach to holding purveyors of fake news accountable, with ongoing legal actions ensuring Jones remains liable for his defamatory actions.

• Notable Quotes:

  • Chris Matei: “The families will be there to collect. And that will go on as long as it takes.” (38:06)

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Democratic Wins in Recent Elections Timestamp: 38:43 - 45:49

Shifting focus, Lawrence highlights recent Democratic victories in congressional races, featuring interviews with newly elected Congresswomen Janelle Bynum and Kelly Morrison. Their triumphs symbolize hope amidst rising concerns over misinformation and reproductive rights.

• Key Points:

  • Historic Victories: Bynum becomes Oregon’s first black woman in Congress, while Morrison’s win in Minnesota underscores the electorate's support for pro-choice candidates.
  • Policy Priorities: Both legislators emphasize reproductive health care, mental health, economic stability, and social justice as non-partisan issues essential for effective governance.
  • Collaborative Approach: Bynum shares her experience in bipartisan efforts to pass health-related legislation, advocating for cooperation across the aisle to enact meaningful change.

• Notable Quotes:

  • Janelle Bynum: “It's so dangerous to contemplate that change.” (41:15)
  • Kelly Morrison: “I ran an authentic campaign where I talked about my experience as a mom.” (42:15)

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Conclusion

Lawrence O’Donnell’s episode underscores a critical juncture in American politics, where the integrity of governmental institutions and the reliability of information sources are under unprecedented threat. Through expert analyses and firsthand accounts, the discussion paints a sobering picture of the challenges facing democracy today while also highlighting avenues of resistance and hope through informed leadership and civic engagement.

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Upcoming Segment Preview

Looking ahead, the podcast promises an insightful conversation with Nobel Peace Prize laureate Maria Ressa, exploring lessons from her activism in the Philippines and strategies to safeguard American democracy against authoritarianism.

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Note: This summary excludes non-content sections such as advertisements, intros, and outros to maintain focus on the episode's substantive discussions.

Transcript

[Ali Velshi]

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[Jeff Lewis]

Price may vary.

[Ali Velshi]

Not valid with any other offer, discount or combo.

[Jeff Lewis]

Hey, this is Jeff Lewis from Radio Andy live and uncensored. Catch me talking with my friends about my latest obsessions, relationship issues and bodily ailments. With that kind of drama that seems to follow me, you never know what's going to happen. You can listen to Jeff Lewis live.

[Timothy Snyder]

At home or anywhere you are.

[Jeff Lewis]

Download the SiriusXM app for over 425.

[Timothy Snyder]

Channels of ad free music, sports, entertainment and more. Subscribe now and get 3 months free offer details apply. Now it is time for the Last.

[Jeff Lewis]

Word with Ali Velshi.

[Timothy Snyder]

Good evening, my friend.

[Ali Velshi]

Good evening. The first full week after the election, you gotta be wiped. I hope you get a little bit of rest before I see you the next time.

[Timothy Snyder]

I'm a try.

[Jeff Lewis]

I'm a try. Have a great show.

[Ali Velshi]

Have a great weekend. This is the story of the modern Republican Party in 30 seconds. When asked why he would never do business with Donald Trump, North Dakota's former Republican governor Doug Burgum said last year when he was a short lived Republican presidential candidate, quote, it's important that you're judged by the company you keep, end quote. But by this year, Bergam was attending Donald Trump's criminal hush money trial where a jury ultimately convicted him of 34 counts and wearing the Donald Trump uniform. As you can see today, Trump announced that he's picked Burgum to lead the Department of the Interior. The company Doug Burgum now keeps also includes the Fox weekend host Pete Hegseth, former Republican, then Democrat, then Republican Chelsea Gabbard, anti vaxxer Robert Kennedy Jr. And Matt Gaetz. You can add your own adjectives to him. Along with Elise Stefanik and Marco Rubio, who used to call Donald Trump a con man, Donald Trump has announced nominees for 11 of the 24 cabinet positions that require Senate confirmation. The Senate's constitutional duty to advise and consent on executive branch appointees has never been more critical than it is now. They not only need to actually do the thing the Constitution says they have a right and a responsibility to do, but in some of These cases, they're going to need critical information in order to do it. But at least in one case, they may not get that information. Because today the House Speaker, Mike Johnson, said that he doesn't believe that the House ethics report into Matt Gaetz's alleged sexual misconduct and drug use should be released.

[Chris Matei]

I believe it is very important to.

[Gary Steingart]

Maintain the House's tradition of not issuing ethics reports on people who are no.

[Ali Velshi]

Longer members of Congress. I think it would open a Pandora's box. Democrat Congressman Glenn Ivey, who serves on the House Ethics Committee, said this. Well, you certainly have precedent for prior releases about reports from the Ethics Committee for members who have resigned or left the Congress. Former Congressman Lukens, for example. And I believe there was a Congressman, I want to say it was Bonner, from the mid-80s where that happened as well. So there's precedent for that. Can't really get into what's going on now. But the fact that someone has left the Congress does not mean that the report can't be released or additional information for that matter. As you know by now, Gates resigned from Congress to stop what was reported to be a, quote, highly damaging Ethics Committee report on Gates. The vote on releasing the report was supposed to be today. It didn't happen. But the issue isn't dead with senators, including Republican Judiciary Committee member John Cornyn of Texas, who says they want to see the Gates report. NBC News is reporting tonight that Gates is facing growing opposition from fellow Republicans. Quote, more than half of Senate Republicans, including some in senior leadership positions, are privately saying they don't see a path for Gates to be confirmed as Attorney General and would not support him to lead the Department of Justice, according to multiple people who spoke to NBC News on condition of anonymity. Of course, we'll see how many of those Senate Republicans will actually oppose Gates publicly when the time comes. Today, the history the Yale history professor Tim Snyder warned that Donald Trump's transition picks, quote, constitute an attempt to wreck the American government. Professor Snyder goes on, health is not only the central human good, it enables the peaceful interactions we associate with the rule of law and democracy. Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. The proposed secretary of the Department of Health and Human Services, would undo all of this on his watch. Were his ideas implemented, millions of us would die. The rule of law depends on people who believe in the spirit of the law. Matt Gaetz, the proposed Attorney General, is the opposite of such a person. He embodies lawlessness and can be counted upon to abuse law to pursue Trump's political opponents. Trump has indicated that he would prefer Hitler's generals, which means a personal oath to himself. Pete Hegseth, Trump's proposed secretary of defense, defends war criminals and displays tattoos associated with white nationalism and Christian nationalism. He's a fundraiser and a television personality with a complicated sexual past and zero experience running an organization. Tulsi Gabbard, insofar as she is known at all, is known as a spreader of Syrian and Russian disinformation. She has no relevant experience. Were she to become the director of National Intelligence, as Trump proposes, we would lose the trust of our allies and lose contact with much of what is happening in the world. Just for starters, we would be vulnerable to all of those who wish to cause us harm. Donald Trump nominated Matt Gaetz on Wednesday, the same day that a presidential tradition was revived, a tradition that Donald Trump ended when he refused to concede. After losing the 2020 election. President Biden welcomed Donald Trump back to the White House in the Oval Office and promised a smooth transition. Much of the news flurry over Donald Trump's personnel choices this week will be lost, but this image will be recorded in history. And I know that a lot of people watching right now feel conflicted about that image. For those of us who consider ourselves foot soldiers for democracy, we face a catch 22. We respect the will of the voters, the peaceful transfer of power and democratic institutions. But what should we think as we watch the keys being handed over to a person who doesn't? Joining us now is Timothy Snyder, professor of history at Yale University, author of New York Times bestsellers on freedom and on tyranny. Professor Snyder, thank you for being with us. One of the important reasons to talk to you, you've warned us for a long time about what may come, is now that that is upon us, your warnings have not weakened, you haven't watered them down. You are truly alarmed at what you've been seeing in the last week and a half.

[Gary Steingart]

Yes, it's nothing is unclear here. These appointments are not just poor choices in a traditional sense. These appointments, each of them individually, is historically bad. But taken together, these are not people who are going to be bad at their jobs in some sort of normal sense. Taken together, these appointments suggest an attempt to actually make the American government dysfunctional, to make it fall apart, to pervert it, to have it do things that it's not supposed to do until it's not capable of doing anything at all. So of course, one has to be attending to this.

[Ali Velshi]

You we can get into a conversation with the 11 nominees about who really is unqualified for their position. You know, people are talking about the fact that some of these people are loyalists. Loyalists are often appointed to things, but usually they have some, you know, some kind of qualification. I want to play something that the former Democratic Congresswoman Kelsey Gabbard of Hawaii said. She's the current nominee for the Department of the Director of National Intelligence. This was from February of 2022. Just listen to this for a moment.

[Janelle Bynum]

Presidents Putin, Zelensky and Biden, it's time.

[Jeff Lewis]

To put geopolitics aside and embrace the spirit of aloha, respect and love for.

[Janelle Bynum]

The Ukrainian people by coming to an agreement that Ukraine will be a neutral.

[Jeff Lewis]

Country, no military alliance with NATO or Russia, and therefore alleviate the legitimate security.

[Janelle Bynum]

Concerns of both US And NATO countries as well as Russia, because there'd be.

[Jeff Lewis]

No Russian or NATO troops on each.

[Janelle Bynum]

Other'S non Baltic borders.

[Jeff Lewis]

This would allow the Ukrainian people to live in peace.

[Janelle Bynum]

Aloha.

[Ali Velshi]

Okay. I mean, I know folks from Hawaii say aloha in a lot of instances. That's not actually one of them that would be relevant. That was 33 seconds of Tulsi Gabbard telling you most of what you need to know about Russia, where she stands on this matter with an adversary that has invaded an ally.

[Gary Steingart]

Yeah. Going back to your first question, it's not just that these people are not qualified enough. It's not just that they're totally unqualified. It's that they're anti qualified. They're qualified to do the opposite of the thing that they're supposed to do. Tulsi Gabbard is talking in a moment when Russian forces are approaching the Ukrainian capital, when Russian assassination squads are attempting to kill the Ukrainian head of state. And she's advising people that all we have to do is summon up a magic word and in effect surrender all of Ukraine to Russia. It's an extraordinary thing to be doing. And it's not naive. It sounds naive, but it's not. What it's doing is trying to prepare the way for more Ukrainian suffering. It's what it is is saying he who invades is right.

[Ali Velshi]

And that's the point I want to get to. It's not naive. And you pointed out in a post today that in fact the conversations between Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin we now know have been going on. Elon Musk has been involved in those conversations. And putting aside the fact that Elon Musk is a man who in three different businesses, money from the US Government and other governments now is going to have a seat at the table kind of Oligarchy, if you've ever heard of such a thing. This is part of a plan, something that they've been working toward. This idea. Tulsi Gabbard, as you said, in as far as she's known, she's known as being sort of a fan of Vladimir Putin and someone who carries his water.

[Gary Steingart]

You tick down the list of all of these posts and it's the same story. Gates at justice is someone who could only pervert the rule of law.

[Ali Velshi]

Right.

[Gary Steingart]

Hexathon, Department of Defense, it's the same thing. He's someone. I didn't mention this in the post, but in his book, he's essentially thinking about how American soldiers should be used against the enemies within, which is Trump's idea. You bring all these things together, and basically what you have is something quite coherent, which is the notion that the American government should be falling apart, American society should be in chaos, and that would be a very good thing. And of course, it's only a good thing if you're an enemy of the United States from abroad or if you're an oligarch who thinks that somehow you're going to profit individually as everything else falls to pieces.

[Ali Velshi]

What do you tell people? Because I'm sure in the last week and a half, everybody's been emailing you and texting you and asking these questions, what do we do now? We know some bad things have happened. We know things will get bad. More bad, perhaps. What do we do?

[Gary Steingart]

Yeah, you got to maintain your own sense of what is good. You have to maintain your own vocabulary. You can't normalize the other things that people are doing. If it's grotesque, you have to call it out as grotesque. And we have to, I'm afraid, like, if we're citizens, we have to get past the post. We have to get past the post electoral moment, and we have to think in terms of what's coming. We have to stop being angry at one another and perhaps think about some new alliances. And if we're elected officials, we have to slow this down and give Trump early defeats, so there's not a sense of momentum, all of that.

[Ali Velshi]

You said something interesting, I think, a week ago when we talked, and you said, you have to remember that you're the same people you were before the election, your values are the same as they were before the election. The things you prioritize are the same they were before the election. So do the things that you do to make the world around you better?

[Gary Steingart]

Yeah, if you're. I mean, the whole idea of this is to shock you into a different world.

[Jeff Lewis]

Right.

[Gary Steingart]

But you have to take your sense of shock and say, okay, shock doesn't license my adapting myself to the new thing.

[Ali Velshi]

Right.

[Gary Steingart]

Shock means that something very wrong has happened and I have to remember what I think is right and start from there.

[Ali Velshi]

Professor Schneider, thank you. We appreciate it. We're going to ask you back and we're going to ask you similar questions on a regular basis because we're going to need you to help us get through this and we appreciate all of the wisdom you bring to us. Professor Timothy Snyder of Yale University, he's the author of the New York Times bestsellers On Freedom and On Tyranny. And if you liked that conversation, or at least you thought it was valuable, tomorrow morning I'll be joined by someone who's got experience firsthand at what happens when a democracy turns toward autocracy. Maria Ressa won the Nobel Peace Prize for her work to maintain a free in the Philippines during the reign of the strongman President Rodrigo Duterte, whose administration relentlessly targeted, harassed and persecuted her. She joins me tomorrow morning at 10am Eastern to talk about lessons we can take from that experience and what can we done to safeguard our own democracy here in the United States. Maria Ressa, tomorrow morning. Coming up, a healthy democracy depends, among other things, on a well informed electorate. But to that end, America is moving in the wrong direction and things could get worse before they get better.

[Jeff Lewis]

Hey, this is Jeff Lewis from Radio Andy live and uncensored. Catch me talking with my friends about my latest obsessions, relationship issues and bodily ailments. With that kind of drama that seems to follow me, you never know what's going to happen. You can listen to Jeff Lewis live.

[Timothy Snyder]

At home or anywhere you are.

[Jeff Lewis]

Download the SiriusXM app for over 425.

[Timothy Snyder]

Channels of ad free music, sports, entertainment and more. Subscribe now and get 3 months free offer details. Apply.

[Jeff Lewis]

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[Ali Velshi]

Here's one way to tell which voters would support Donald Trump. Quote Donald Trump was returned to power by the most badly informed electorate in modern American history. The now president elect, according to one survey, posted his biggest margin, 53% to 27% among voters who don't follow any news. Trump's win was a triumph of the ill informed end quote. That's a quote from the Philadelphia Inquirer column written by Will Bunch, who's going to join us in just a moment. The problem is going to get worse. Quote it's been estimated that half of US Counties have limited access to reliable local news and hundreds are so called news deserts with no outlets at all, end quote. And based on the controversial people that Donald Trump has already picked to serve in his administration, like the anti vaxxer and conspiracy theorist RFK Jr. And Tulsi Gabbard, a known propagandist for Syria and Russia, who Trump wants to install as the next director of National Intelligence, Kookery, will now be credentialed. Will disinformation become the norm and now stand behind the seal of the United States of America? There's now no expectation that many incoming government officials at the highest levels have appropriate experience or expertise in the roles they serve, only fealty in this case to Trump. So how does the news media hold them to account without abandoning its basic standards for what's true and what's false? How do we tackle the problem of a badly informed electorate when the bad information is now going to be the official record? Joining us now, Will Bunch, columnist at the Philadelphia Inquirer. He's the author of after the Ivory Tower Falls. Also joining us, Tom Nichols, staff writer for the Atlantic and author of the Death of Expertise. We have requests, by the way, Tom, on social media for your cat because pretty much that's the only thing that's going to make people put a smile on their face today. Welcome to both of you. Will, talk to me for a second because I believe what you've written and I've thought about it for a long time and I started in local news and I really, I understand its importance. But tell me what you think the correlation is. Why are the news deserts or the places where people don't watch news or their inability or unwillingness to watch local news why does that affect their politics?

[Will Bunch]

Well, you know, it's all about trust. I mean, trust in the media is just plunged to a shockingly low number. I think Pew found it was 31%, which is the lowest number ever. And you're seeing it on all sides. I mean, conservatives have mistrusted the media for a long time, but a lot of liberal folks have lost faith in the mainstream media. But I think the local news is such core. When you had thriving local newspapers, even weekly papers in small towns, you had journalists who were in your community, people who lived there, people you knew and trust, and it created a climate of civic engagement, you know, positive information, positive conversation. And, you know, now this situation that you mentioned where half the counties in America don't have a functioning reliable news source. And the problem is information abhors a vacuum. And what's been racing into that vacuum has been either disinformation from all sorts of sources, whether it's, whether it's your crazy uncle or whether it's some guy in Russia who's working on behalf of Putin or these so called pink slime news sites that are set up by ideologues to look like a newspaper. But really they're peddling propaganda. So people are, people are getting it from all sides. And it's hard. We don't have an economic model right now for rebuilding local news. And that, that's the conversation we have to have. And we have to have this conversation. You know, as I wrote in the column, kind of, kind of like Ginger Rogers at this point, we're, you know, walking backwards in high heels and trying to fix the media at the same time. And it's a, it's, it's a, it's a downward spiral at this point, Tom.

[Ali Velshi]

I mean, in the process of this downward spiral, Will and you and me, we're trying to do our work, we're trying to actually report on the stories. And you do that every day, all week. I mean, I've been watching, I can hear it in your words, how incredulous you are about the things that are going on. But it's the same problem. So in your world, Tom, it's not necessarily the absence of local news, but it is distrust in media, distrust in the truth, distrust in the ability of people to even give you the truth. How do you see us fixing this?

[Tom Nichols]

Well, first we have to confront something that's really important because we always talk about this with the kind of, the assumption that if we build it, they will come, right? That if only there were local Newspapers, if only the local newscasts were on. What we're missing here is that a large chunk of the fault here just lies with the American public. We are now a leisure society. We take in huge amounts of entertainment. We take in petabytes of information over the course of weeks and months that we simply can't process. Our tolerance for boredom, for nuance, for detail is almost zero. And this is what I wrote about in the death of expertise, that people, they don't really want to read news stories. I was on a panel once with Dan Balz from the Washington Post, and someone said, you should write more explainers. And very calmly he said, we write them. You don't read them, you won't read them. I think we have to deal with the fact that there is a resistance to people ever encountering news or being told about anything that they think is unpleasant or uninteresting or contradicts things that they already believe. And having said that passionately, I'm not sure what to do about it. There is local news. There are through the Internet. There are other reputable sources of news. Will is sitting right here. You can read Will Bunch. But I don't know what to do about the fact that we've become a society that is so easily distracted and bored that asking people to pay attention to, to who's going to be the secretary of defense. I mean, my parents were uneducated folks. They read the newspaper every day. They would have been able to answer that question in 1969 or 1970. Today, people just don't seem to care that much about it. And I'm not sure how to make them care until something disastrous happens.

[Ali Velshi]

Will, wherever the fault lies. I mean, it's one of the most common questions I get when I'm out in the public. How does this get fit, fixed? People say, well, how do I curate my news better? What can I do? I understand that there's dirty water coming out of the tap, but where's the water filter? What do I do about that? I mean, yeah, you can read Tom Nichols stuff. You can read Will Bunch. Tom, you and I don't. There are a lot of things upon which we don't share ideological views. But I consume literally everything you write because I get smarter for it. Will, what is the tool for the average person who wants better news and better information?

[Will Bunch]

Well, the thing is, people are always going to want information, and they're always going to get information. You know, the problem is, I think Tom diagnosed pretty well is that.

[Jeff Lewis]

You.

[Will Bunch]

Know, the ways that people get Information have changed. You know, there's been so much talk this year about the influence of TikTok, for example, or other sites like that. And, you know, I think people in the media business are trying to figure out how do we repackage news for people who are getting news incidentally or, you know, when they're going to sites for other things, how do we break it down into smaller snippets? Because people want information and people are obviously getting information some ways. It's just right now, for the most part, they're getting bad information. So I think the onus is on us to try and find people where they are. And that's going to take a lot of outside the box thinking at this point.

[Ali Velshi]

And resources. Tom, the issue is the financial incentives for being a good news organization are diminishing.

[Tom Nichols]

Yeah, I mean, when I taught undergraduates, they're always shocked to find out that the evening news before the Vietnam war was only 15 minutes long because the networks considered it at a kind of a public service and a loss, you know, a lost investment. I want to amend one thing that will pointed out, though. People will always want information. I would amend that to say people always want entertainment. And that's part of the problem is that trying to package news or to meet people where they are in a way where they simply just don't tune out is difficult to do in part because there's so much of it that in a weird way, when the News was only 25 minutes at the end of a day, everyone had to watch it because that was it. That was all the news you were going to get. And now people think of the news as kind of wallpaper. As one of my friends, it's just kind of wallpaper that's on all the time. And again, I'm not sure what to do about that. But I think one thing you saw during COVID unfortunately, is that when there is a disaster and something terrible happens, excuse me. People then start to pay attention to the news again and say, no, now I really want. I'm scared. I'm concerned. I really want information. I wish it didn't require that level of danger for people to pay attention to the news, but I'm not quite sure how to get that back.

[Ali Velshi]

Guys, thank you very much. Tom, I'm talking to you again this weekend. You've got a great deal of expertise in the military world and we're going to talk about some of these appointments. Will I miss you today?

[Tom Nichols]

I'll bring my cat.

[Ali Velshi]

I appreciate that. Thank you, sir. And Will. I missed you today. I was in Philly, but good to see you as always, my friend. Well, a bunch. Tom Nichols. Thank you.

[Will Bunch]

I'll keep my eyes open for you.

[Ali Velshi]

All right, coming up, Vladimir Putin is using all forms of propaganda to advocate against a childless lifestyle. Now, we expect that propaganda from Putin's playbook, but why is one party in the United States of America so keen to push that same agenda? We'll talk about it next.

[Jeff Lewis]

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[Ali Velshi]

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[Jeff Lewis]

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[Ali Velshi]

We're cutting the price of mint unlimited from $30 a month to just $15 a month.

[Jeff Lewis]

Give it a [e-mail] Switch $45 upfront.

[Janelle Bynum]

Payment equivalent to $15 per month. New customers on first three month plan only. Taxes and fees, Extra speed slower above 40 gigabytes of details.

[Ali Velshi]

One week after the election, the New York Times reported this story. Its birth rate falling, Russia targets child free lifestyles. Who did that sound like? We're effectively run in this country via.

[Tom Nichols]

The Democrats, via our corporate oligarchs by a bunch of childless cat ladies who are miserable at their own lives and the choices that they've made. And so they want to make the.

[Ali Velshi]

Rest of the country.

[Tom Nichols]

Miserable, too.

[Ali Velshi]

The Times reports, quote, russian lawmakers on Tuesday voted to ban the advocacy of child free lifestyles in a move that is part of a broader effort by the Kremlin to reverse a falling birthrate and promote the country as a bastion of traditional values that is battling a decadent West. The State Duma unanimously approved a bill that would ban any form of propaganda promoting the refusal to have children. That would include material on the Internet, in media outlets, in movies, and in advertising that portrays child free lifestyles as attractive. Violators would be subject to fines of up to about $4,000 for individuals and $50,000 for legal entities. The bill has been broadly endorsed by the Kremlin and is expected to be signed into law by President Vladimir V. Putin. Putin's objective, of course, is more practical than simply opposing the supposedly decadent West. The Times notes, quote, russia's population decline has been further exacerbated by the COVID pandemic and the war in Ukraine, where Russia has lost up to 150,000 soldiers so far, according to estimates by Western governments and Russian researchers. There are some other reasons for Russia's population decline cited in the article lower Russian life expectancy, loss of immigrant labor because of hardening attitudes about immigrants. And Russians of childbearing age were born during the chaos, who were born between the chaos and poverty that accompanied the fall of the Soviet Union. The Russian population is less than half that of the United States. It's actually declined since 1991, whereas America in that same period has grown by 100 million people. So it's not entirely it's clear why Putin is pushing this. It's less clear why the party about to take control of the entire US Government is. Until it makes sense of that, we turn to the New York Times bestselling author Gary Steingard. Gary, good to see you. Thank you for being with us. Thank you.

[Dr. Kelly Morrison]

Thank you.

[Ali Velshi]

Talk to me about this, these weird propaganda similarities. You are a real student of the kind of propaganda you get in Russia.

[Dr. Kelly Morrison]

Yes. I was recently commissioned to spend five days. This is an article that appeared in the Atlantic. Five days in a hotel room watching three Russian state TV channels on separate monitors. I came out of there barely alive. Psychologically speaking, it's not something I would recommend. It was fascinating because so much of the stuff that I saw, whether talk shows or documentaries or feature films, were contained so much abuse of women and children that almost all of it was propaganda against having children taken from a woman's point of view.

[Jeff Lewis]

Right.

[Dr. Kelly Morrison]

The Russian Duma recently decriminalized domestic abuse, unless it leads to the wife or to the woman or child being put into the hospital.

[Ali Velshi]

Wow.

[Dr. Kelly Morrison]

So these are not exactly incentives for women to want to have children. In addition to the fact, as the Times noted, that 150,000 Russian men, if not more, have died in the completely senseless war in Ukraine. And obviously many, many more will. So from all of the. It reminds me a little bit of the sort of Vance catch child comment in that women please have more children. And at the same time, you do everything possible to make sure that women are denied all the rights and opportunities they would need to consider having a family to begin with.

[Ali Velshi]

By the way, a lesson that some of our propagandists here in the United States are taking from Russia is we forget a lot of other cultures in the world. A lot of other countries watch cable news even more than we do. But in Russia, you don't have the choices. You can't make choices about what you're watching. You had three channels. They're all state controlled.

[Dr. Kelly Morrison]

They're all state controlled. And they were amazing in that they. Each one had pretty much the same thing to say. So it's almost like they woke up. And today's mission is we're gonna vilify George Soros. So when you watch. I'm not a full time watcher of, say, OAN or other channels in America, but I imagine that's exactly what it's like because it's the same program. For example, Tucker Carlson is always right, Elon Musk is always right. And Geor George Soros is portrayed as a spider, which is sort of very traditional antisemitic imagery. You know, the Jew is a kind of controlling insect or vermin or something like that. There's not even an attempt to hide any of these things. And I think in some ways it's a kind of template for what these kinds of news channels in America, but also what the politicians who are now in cahoots almost entirely with these news channels can accomplish.

[Ali Velshi]

And by the way, as it relates to Ukraine, the coverage on Russian TV is about how they are aggressors, Nazis, actually. They use that symbolism and language, how the far right, the racist far right in Ukraine is doing that. We have adopted similar things here where you can't just be against somebody, they can't be on the other side. It's an absolute vilification and dehumanization.

[Dr. Kelly Morrison]

Dehumanization, I think, is the right word. They portray a Ukrainian rolling around in a pigsty with a pig. I mean, this is just such very fascist imagery. You were talking about dehumanization that goes on constantly. But at the same time, I could see Tulsi Gotberg appearing on one of those talk shows via translator and being a big hit in Russia in the same way that Tucker is. So this is a very well thought out program. What's truly amazing for me, as somebody who was born in the ussr, is that when I was growing up, I always thought after the Soviet Union collapsed that Russia would become more and more like America. And with this second election of Trump, I'm thinking it's the opposite. America is becoming more and more like Russia, getting rid of the rule of law, you know, being dominated by an oligarchical system. Right. These are all things that I thought Russia would slowly grow out of, but instead, we're growing into it. And the television, which, as you've mentioned, is watched by huge amounts of people, especially people who are older, who don't have as much access to computers. Remember, this is not a very rich country. Many people do not have access to even things like running water and toilets. There's a whole meme on the Internet about Russian soldiers stealing toilets from Ukraine because they've never seen one, you know, so they're gonna take it back and replace the outhouse. So all of this stuff is. It's so depressing that watching Russian TV for five days is probably the worst thing you could do with your life.

[Ali Velshi]

I read your article about it where you actually document each of the five days and what was on there. It was great detail, and I wouldn't have thought it'd be that interesting to read an article about somebody else watching TV for five days. It's a remarkable read, and I encourage people to do that. Gary, good to see you. Thank you for being with us. Gary Steingart. All right, coming up, it's been a long time coming, but almost 12 years after the massacre at Sandy Hook Elementary School this week, the conspiracy theorist Alex Jones Infowars was sold at auction to pay a $1.5 billion judgment to the children's families for calling their murders a hoax. That's next. The satirical news site the Onion placed the winning bid on a completely different purveyor of fake news. Infowars, the conspiracy theory empire of Alex Jones. Sandy Hook families won a $1.4 billion defamation judgment against Jones in late 2022. You'll remember just weeks before the 10 year anniversary of the deadliest mass shooting in a US elementary school in which 20 children and six teachers, six educators were murdered at trial, the victims families described in heartrending detail how Jones lied that their children's murders had been faked and staged and how they were terrorized by listeners who threatened and harassed them and desecrated their children's graves. The family supported the Onions purchase of Infowars at a bankruptcy auction. But today, a federal bankruptcy judge paused the Onions acquisition until he can review the process of the sale. Joining us now is Christopher Matei, lead counsel for the Sandy Hook families in their defamation lawsuit against Alex Jones. Chris, good to see you. Thank you for being back with us tonight.

[Chris Matei]

Good to see you as well.

[Ali Velshi]

Ali, talk to me about this. This is not a lot of people thought it was funny that Onion bought infowars, but this isn't really funny. This was a real, real thing. The families you represent are trying to get the money from the judgment that they have received because they're having trouble getting it. So talk to me about the connection between the judgment, the families and Infowars. Sure.

[Chris Matei]

Well, as you said, you know, the families that we represent in Connecticut obtained a $1.4 billion verdict against Alex Jones two years ago, prompting him very quickly to put himself and his company into bankruptcy. We have been working hard ever since then to finally bring him to justice to enforce our judgment. And really against all odds, we had got to the point where a court appointed trustee had taken control of Infowars and was going to be selling it off for pieces. And the Onion bid on those assets. And the trustee determined on Thursday with our support, that that was the winning bid. And so I want to just correct one thing. You said the sale has not been put on pause at all. All that's going to happen is that the judge is going to hold a hearing, as he would in any case where there was a sale. Will there be a motion to approve the sale to the Onion? And of course, anybody can object, particularly the losing bidder if they wish, but we are really on the verge here of having infowars in the hands of the Onion and depriving Alex Jones of the purse that he's had for so long to hurt so many.

[Ali Velshi]

What can, what can they do with it? What, can you use it for good? Or is it, is it more about the fact that we're putting Alex Jones out of business?

[Chris Matei]

Well, as I understand it, the Onion intends to fold the Infowars website into their family of websites for satirical purposes. And I think they intend to lampoon some of the conspiracy theories that Alex Jones continues to spread and has spread in the past. I think their view is that humor is one way to take on a bully and to reach people and hopefully bring more people back from the brink of disinformation that Alex Jones has been pushing them off of for so long.

[Ali Velshi]

The model here, of course, is that there's been a judgment against Alex Jones. He has found all sorts of ways to not pay. And then this is something that one can do. Is this judgment against Alex Jones going to haunt him forever? Will it follow him until that money is paid off? It will, yeah.

[Chris Matei]

I mean, Alex Jones acted with such malicious intent against these families as the jury found and as the bankruptcy court found that his debts to us are not dischargeable in bankruptcy. So although a portion of those debts will be paid as a result of the sell off of his assets, that includes, by the way, the proceeds from the sale of his lake house, of his ranch property, of much of his personal property, he will still owe money going forward until he pays that $1.4 billion judgment. And so wherever he goes next to make money, the families will be there to collect. And that will go on as long as it takes.

[Ali Velshi]

Remarkable story. Chris, good to see you as always. Thank you for joining us. Chris Mate is the lead counsel for Sandy Hook families in their defamation lawsuit against Alex Jones. All right, coming up, some good news. Election night did bring some progress for the Democrats in congressional races. We're going to talk to two big congressional Democratic House winners next. The votes are still being counted in the election. With one Senate seat and eight House races yet to be called, there are some reasons to be hoped. Hopeful for the first time there will be a pro choice OBGYN in Congress. After Dr. Kelly Morrison won her race in Minnesota's 3rd congressional district, she told the Minnesota Star Tribune, quote, one of the challenges around abortion is that there's been so much myth and disinformation about it for so many decades that people have just been told things that just aren't true about reproductive health care. I think that is probably my role to have just a calm, clear discussion about what the facts are and what the ramifications of abortion bans are, end quote. In Oregon, Janelle Bynum flipped a Republican seat, defeating the Republican incumbent in the state's 5th congressional district. Janelle Bynum will be the first black woman to represent Oregon in Congress.

[Timothy Snyder]

I'm proud to be a groundbreaker because of what that means, not just for my children, but for all young people across our state to see that change is possible and that when something big has never been done before that it might just be because you haven't accomplished it yet.

[Ali Velshi]

Joining us now, Janelle Bynum, Democratic congresswoman elect in Oregon's 5th district, and Dr. Kelly Morrison, Democratic congresswoman elect in Minnesota's 3rd district. Welcome to both of you. Dr. Morrison, welcome back to the show. Great to talk to you. Since we last talked, that misinformation, disinformation about reproductive health care has not only gotten worse, it caused women to die. So on one hand, a lot of the country's in a grim place right now. But your election marks a very important moment in Congress. You're there to be that sort of smart, informed voice for your soon to be colleagues.

[Janelle Bynum]

Well, I appreciate that and thank you so much for having me on tonight. I do feel a responsibility as the first and only pro choice, pro abortion rights, pro reproductive freedom, ob, GYN and Congress, Congress to be that voice to stand up to speak against the possibility of any further restrictions on reproductive freedom for American women and their families, frankly.

[Ali Velshi]

Ali Congresswoman Elect Bynum, you both of you have similar positions on things, but you outlined your priorities that you campaigned on, reproductive health care, mental health care, hospitals and doctors, facilities in their neighborhoods, that life and property are not harmed by wildfires, the economy, social justice. In fact, none of those are partisan. I mean, reproductive healthcare has become a bit of a partisan issue, but fundamentally, these are things that everybody should want.

[Timothy Snyder]

Absolutely. I think my position as a working mom gives me very good perspective. I used to think that my kids were heavy and anytime I tried to work on an issue, I always have to balance that with soccer or school or homework. But the more I leaned into being a mother and carrying these issues to the state House where I've been for the last eight years, and now I'm looking forward to doing that in the next two years in Congress. That has made all the difference and I think that's why we were successful in this election.

[Ali Velshi]

Dr. Morrison, both of you have come from, you've been legislators before and you've had a lot of accomplishments. Dr. Morrison, what do you look at? You're looking at this Congress that you're coming into. It's going to be not a dissimilar split to the last Congress. You gotta get work done in a tough environment. What does that look like to you?

[Janelle Bynum]

Well, it's gonna be a very tight governing majority. It's looking like and coming from the state legislature, I served in a divided government for four years. I'm also a lifelong Democrat who grew up in a Republican family. So I know that good ideas can come from both sides of the aisle. And I was able to find Republicans who are willing to work with me in the state legislature in Minnesota and passed reforms around prior authorization and lowering the cost of prescription drugs. And then perhaps the bill I'm most proud of, Allie, was to extend health insurance for new moms and their babies from just 60 days to 12 months postpartum. And I got that done with a very conservative Republican legislator with whom I disagreed pretty strenuously on abortion. But we set our differences aside and we focused on what we agreed on, and we passed legislation that's making a real difference in people's lives now. So I know it's possible. That was my mission in Minnesota, and that will continue to be my mission. Representing the third district in Minnesota, here.

[Ali Velshi]

In Congress, Janelle Bynum. There are a lot of people who want nothing to do with politics right now. They don't even want to listen to news about it.

[Jeff Lewis]

You were.

[Ali Velshi]

You were actually on your way out. You were not. And you were not really thinking that you were going to run. You were considering leaving politics altogether. You were encouraged to run, and then you won. What's the recipe here that the rest of us need to be looking at from you?

[Timothy Snyder]

Well, it's really about discipline and authenticity. I ran an authentic campaign where I talked about my experience as a mom, I talked about my experience as an electrical engineer, took those pieces and really communicated with the electorate and just shared my stories authentically. And I think that's the difference. Going forward, we have to be willing to dig into our own experiences, share them, relate to people, and then bring those ideas forth in Congress. I'm super excited to roll my sleeves up and get to work.

[Ali Velshi]

Dr. Morrison, we had a number of state votes on abortion in the last election. In seven of them, they prevailed. The abortion rights prevailed. In one of them. In Florida, more people voted for rights than not. But the model was that they needed 60% and they only got 57. Interesting, because Americans continue to say that they prioritize reproductive healthcare, and yet we're in a world where Project 2025 talks about banning mifepristone, something that you have said would have devastating consequences.

[Janelle Bynum]

Oh, it's so dangerous to contemplate that change. But you're exactly right, Ali. You know, red state, red states, blue states, purple states across the country have passed ballot initiatives to protect reproductive freedom, including in states that voted for President Elect Trump. So Americans have made it clear that they want reproductive freedom. Project 2025 has some very, very scary suggestions, including banning mifepristone. For which more than half of terminations of pregnancy in America are medication abortions using mifepristone. The consequences of that would be devast. I am hopeful. You know, you noticed in the election, Republicans started messaging quite differently on abortion than they had in the past. I'm hopeful that maybe they've had a change of heart now that they recognize that Americans want reproductive freedom. So I'm here to work with them if they want to continue to work to protect access to reproductive health care and reproductive freedom for Americans.

[Ali Velshi]

I look forward to many conversations with both of you over the course of the next few years. Thank you for joining us tonight. Representative Representatives elect Janelle Bynum and Kelly Morrison. All right, tomorrow at 10:00am we got a special Velchy Ban book club for you. I'll be joined by Jodi Picoult, who is not just working to save her own books from censorship. She's fighting to stop book banning across the country. And she's got a roadmap for the rest of us to help join the fight for the freedom to read. I hope you'll join us. That's tonight's Last Word sponsored by Gilead.

[Jeff Lewis]

Last night was fun, but honestly, we should have used protection. I learned about an HIV prevention option called PREP or pre exposure prophylaxis and it means routinely taking prescription medicine medicine before you're exposed to HIV to help reduce your chances of getting it. Prep is about 99% effective when taken as prescribed. It just doesn't protect against other STIs, so we'll need to remember to use condoms and other healthy sex practices. You should look into it. Visit findoutaboutpreprep.com you can also talk to your healthcare provider to learn more about PREP and all your HIV prevention options.