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The Last Word with Lawrence O’Donnell
Supreme Court blocks Trump’s bid to resume deportations under 1798 wartime law
00:42:41
Tonight on The Last Word: The Supreme Court blocks Trump’s bid to resume deportations under The Alien Enemies Act of 1798. And the GOP defies Trump, striking down a bill advancing his agenda. Rep. Gwen Moore, Rick Stengel, Prof. Larry Glickman, and Tony Ortiz join Ali Velshi
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- [00:00]
Ali Velshi
How do you make an Airbnb a vrbo.
- [00:03]
Richard Stengel
Picture a vacation rental with a host.
- [00:05]
Ali Velshi
The host is dragging your family on.
- [00:07]
Richard Stengel
A tour of the kitchen, the bathroom, the upstairs bathroom, the downstairs bedroom, and the TV room, which, surprise, is where you can watch tv. Now imagine there's no host giving you a tour because there's never any hosts at all, ever. Voila.
- [00:22]
Ali Velshi
You've got yourself a vrbo.
- [00:24]
Richard Stengel
Want a vacation that's completely and totally host free? Make it a VRbox. Avoiding your unfinished home projects because you're not sure where to start. Thumbtack knows homes, so you don't have to. Don't know the difference between matte paint, finish and satin or what that clunking sound from your dryer is. With thumbtack, you don't have to be a home pro. You just have to hire one. You can hire top rated pros, see price estimates and read reviews all on the app. Download Today the Last Word with Ali Velshi. Hosting starts right now. Hey, Ali. Hi, friend. Can I ask you to go back to your days as a White House press secretary? Sure. Where it's like riding a bike. Yeah, right. You go out there one day knowing some domestic policy that you're working on is not going as well as you'd like. And reporters are coming at you about that. Sort of like Donald Trump showing back up. And you know, this budget reconciliation bill's not going the way he likes. So what's he turned to? I would assume that you try and misdirect perhaps to some topic that you'd rather talk about. Donald Trump keeps choosing this plane from. Yeah, he loves the plane. If somebody gave me a $500 million plane, I just, if I took it, which I probably shouldn't, I would just not talk about it that much. I know, but he loves it so much. I guess it's better than talking about the budget bill failing in the budget committee, which you're nerdy like me and. No, that's not a good sign for your own committee. Didn't make it out of your. It didn't make it out of the committee you control. Right, Exactly. By a wide margin. But the plane, it's a fancy plane. It's a fancy plane. Always the things we talk about. Jen, it's good to see you, my friend. You have yourself a great weekend. Thank you. Thank you so much. It is day 116 of the second Trump presidency. And day 116 started out bad and only got worse for Donald Trump. Donald Trump was rejected separately and both by the Supreme Court justices he appointed and particularly right wing members of his Congress. In a 7 to 2 ruling with Justices Samuel Alito and Clarence Thomas dissenting, no surprise there. The Supreme Court said that Donald Trump violated the due process rights of Venezuelan migrants in his attempt to deport them to a Salvadoran prison under the 1798 Alien Enemies Act. The justices criticized the Trump administration for giving the migrants just 24 hours notice before deportation. Supreme Court wrote, quote, under these circumstances, notice roughly 24 hours before removal, devoid of information about how to exercise due process rights to contest that removal surely does not pass muster. We recognize the significance of the government's national security interests as well as the necessity that such interests be pursued in a manner that, consistent with the Constitution, end quote, must be pursued in a manner consistent with the Constitution. In a concurring opinion, the Trump appointed Justice Brett Kavanaugh wrote that the injunction against the Trump administration simply ensures that the judiciary can decide whether these Venezuelan detainees may be lawfully removed under the Alien Enemies act before they are in fact removed. Donald Trump responded on social media, quote, the Supreme Court of the United States is not allowing me to do what I was elected to do. In order to get migrants out of our country. We have to go through a long and extended process. He says more, but that's the end of the quote. A long, extended process is called the Constitution. And yes, it is a little more cumbersome than ordering a pizza on the Domino's app, but it's a lot more consequential. You know what else is consequential about today? Despite the criminal immunity ruling Donald Trump's appointees on the high court gave him last year, the Supreme Court demonstrated today that it doesn't actually work for Donald Trump. It is actually a constitutional check on the executive. It is, in fact, at least today, at least today, a defender of the Constitution. And then there was the Republican led House of Representatives. That Donald Trump was headed back to Washington today after four days of heaping praise on Gulf leaders during his Middle Eastern tour, only to discover that Congressional Republicans have objections to the massive reconciliation bill that Trump wants Republican leaders to ram through this week. At 10:07 this morning, Friday morning, Donald Trump wrote, quote, republicans must unite behind the one big beautiful bill. Get it done. Two hours later, five Republicans on the Budget Committee, not in the House in general, on the Budget Committee, blocked the bill. In clear defiance of Donald Trump's orders. The Republicans, Chip Roy, Ralph Norman, Josh Breachen, Andrew Clyde and Lloyd Smucker joined Democrats in voting against advancing Donald Trump's Big, beautiful bill from the committee ahead of this vote, Congressman Chip Roy said, quote, this bill falls profoundly short. It does not do what we say it does with respect to deficits. Deficits will go up in the first half of the ten year budget window. And we all know it's true. And we shouldn't do that. We shouldn't say that we're doing something we're not doing, end quote. So while Republicans like Chip Roy don't believe the bill goes far enough, other Republicans like Senator Josh Hawley are balking at the Medicare cuts, the Medicaid cuts in Trump's bill. Medicaid covers 71 million low income or disabled Americans. A new study published this month in a National Bureau of Economic Research working paper showed that the expansion of Medicaid under Obamacare has saved more than 27,000 lives since 2010. Poor adults who gained Medicaid coverage after the Affordable Care act expanded access were 21% less likely to die during a given year than those not enrolled. This week, Republicans on the House Energy and Commerce Committee. It's a bit confusing because that's actually the committee that has jurisdiction over Medicaid. That committee approved cuts that the Congressional Budget Office estimated that would increase the number of people without health insurance by at least 13.7 million. It's 2025. We're about to throw 13.7 million more people off of health care. Remember, this is the only industrialized country that does not have some form of universal health care on earth. Two things. One, a generic budget bill with no specified spending cuts was always going to be a lot easier to pass, as Mike Johnson did back in March. Republicans love to tell voters about the idea that Americans can cut a trillion dollars from its expenditures. And no American voter is going to feel any impact at all looking at you, Doge, of course, that's just not true. And the reality is that entitlements to Americans for health care and retirement is where a large part of the American budget goes. The rest goes to interest payments on debt that was largely run up by America's military adventures. And number two, the political climate for Trump and Republicans, particularly on economic issues, looks a lot different now than when the budget bills passed two months ago, thanks to Donald Trump's on again, off again incoherent tariffs. In fact, today, consumer confidence dropped again to the second lowest level on record. Nearly 75% of consumers cited tariffs and the subsequent rising prices as their top concern. This comes as Walmart is warning its customers it's going to raise prices this month because of Trump's tariffs. Walmart CFO John Rainey said this on cnbc.
- [08:45]
Ali Velshi
The level of tariffs that have been.
- [08:46]
Richard Stengel
Proposed is pretty challenging for all retailers, for suppliers.
- [08:49]
Ali Velshi
And certainly our concern is that consumers are going to feel some of that.
- [08:53]
Richard Stengel
So we're going to keep prices as.
- [08:54]
Ali Velshi
Low as we can for as long.
- [08:55]
Richard Stengel
As we can for our customers and members. Yesterday, Federal Reserve Chairman Jerome Powell warned that the US could face supply shocks. We may be entering a period of more frequent and potentially more persistent supply shocks, a difficult challenge for the economy and for central banks. Okay, just remember, supply shocks means you don't get what you're looking for. Dishwashers, cars, whatever the case is, and then the price of those things. You remember this from COVID Anybody need to buy a dishwasher or fridge or car during COVID because there's not enough supply, the prices go up. The silver lining in this messy, potentially harmful and devastating reconciliation process in Congress is that it's bringing raw and powerful stories of, of poverty to the forefront. This week Congresswoman Gwen Moore will join us. Who's going to join us in a moment told us one of those stories that are too often ignored in Washington.
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Gwen Moore
I was smart, intelligent, but I went to school every day and ate the crumbs and the garbage off of kids plates until I got brave enough one day to just stand in line and demand something to eat. You know, God doesn't distribute intelligence based on people's income. You know, some of our smartest kids may be in the pool of those 17 million and we're going to kill their brains because they can't eat. We have been pilloried and criticized for talking about unjustly enriching the wealthiest people. I heard someone over there talk about the high cost of expanding this child tax credit. It's worth every dime. This is an investment in our future, in our kids.
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Richard Stengel
Joining us now is the Democratic Congresswoman Gwen Moore of Wisconsin. She serves on the House Ways and Means Committee and the Joint Economic Committee. Congresswoman, nice to see you again. Thank you for being with us.
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Gwen Moore
Oh, it's so great being with you.
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Richard Stengel
Alex. I want to start right where you ended about the child tax credit and the concept of it being an investment. That's not just lingo that we throw around. This is studied information that if children have food, they're well fed, they have access to books and they have access to public education with teachers in a reasonable ratio in their class. That is the single greatest determinant of their success by a very long shot in life.
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Gwen Moore
Absolutely and it's a lot more declarative and definitive than the so called economic growth that we get from enriching billionaires and giving them billions on top of the billions that they have. The so called trickle down has never occurred in my lifetime and I'm 74. But we have seen the results of investing in our children and, you know, OECD countries around the world get it. You know, and as we complain and whine and cry about the replacement rate being so low and Donald Trump indicating that he might give women $5,000 to give birth while we're throwing out our dreamers and pushing back immigran and not feeding and taking care of the children that we have. You know, talk about waste, fraud and abuse. There it is.
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Richard Stengel
Yeah, we're not throwing away all the refugees, by the way. We're apparently bringing some in from South Africa, which was kind of interesting. Let's talk a little about the problem going on across the aisle with your Republican Party. There are some Republicans who are asked by leadership to approve this big, beautiful bill because it's going to die in the Senate. And there's some, the Don Bacons of the world who said that's not kind of how we roll. It's not how we're supposed to do it. But you've got Republicans who are opposed to this bill for two different reasons. One set of reasons is sort of ultra conservatives who think the deficit's the biggest problem we have to solve and this doesn't cut enough out of the deficit. And then there are others who think you're cutting too much out of this. You're going to cut Medicaid, you're going to cut Veterans Affairs. You're going to not give my taxpayers the deductions that they get in some of the higher tax states. This is a real problem. Mike Johnson's actually got a mathematical problem on his hands right now, which is hard to solve because getting five from this side means annoying five from that side.
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Gwen Moore
Absolutely. And I can tell you that I predicted to many people that this is what would happen because there are Republicans that are really committed to not raising the debt ceiling, not stemming the debt. And of course, Moody's of course downgraded us today because of the debt and also because we're not receiving enough revenue. By the way, the loss of revenue and the deficit over the next 30 years, it'll be $45 trillion. Really? Allie. But then there are other people. And here's where I want to congratulate the people, the people of the United States because they have gotten in touch with their congressmen. They have let their congressmen know that they don't want to. These draconian Medicaid cuts, you know, it's ridiculous, you know, garbage to say we're only going to target the boys that are in the basement playing video games and calling out to their mamas to bring up some more potato chips. That we will destroy the health care infrastructure that we have by, by these cuts in Medicaid. Rural hospitals will close, maternity wards in urban areas will close. We'll lose providers everywhere. And even if you have private insurance, when you have that heart attack, you're going to have to drive 30 miles and hope that you make it.
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Richard Stengel
So I'm going to have a, I'm going to have a conversation with, with, with your colleague Don Bacon tomorrow morning. And you know, some Republicans want lower cuts to, to Medicaid. But here's the thing. This is kind of like the welfare queen thing, right? The kid in the basement. It's the idea that you are collecting government aid, including Medicaid because fundamentally, somehow you're lazy, right? As opposed to somehow you're economically in the wrong place. You mentioned OECD countries, all what we consider the developed countries in the world. We are the only one who does not have universal health care. And under this big beautiful bill, 13.7 million more people could lose health care. In other words, in 2025, we're not getting closer to the rest of the world. We're actually going in the other direction.
- [15:47]
Gwen Moore
Absolutely, Allie. And you know these ridiculous barriers that they have to receiving Medicaid work requirements. I was reading an article by. I'll get this piece of paper because I think it's important to mention Matt.
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Richard Stengel
I love about Wenmore's so familiar with us right now. She's going to just go and get a newspaper, wherever it is. I love it.
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Gwen Moore
Medicaid Work requirements are Cruel and Pointless by Matt Bruinig, the founder of the People's Policy Project. He really points out that people are the poorest and most vulnerable. People may not have a high school diploma and that they are being held to a standard where other people are in charge of whether or not they can get a job and their hours might be. I can remember my daughter once working at a daycare center and I don't care how busy they. They made her go home because they didn't want to incur the expenses, the business expensive expenses of payroll taxes and workers comp. And so on. You know, so to say that you have to work 80 hours a week. What if employers aren't willing to hire you for those hours? Which is, which would probably be the case. And you know, his calculation is that when you look at all of the people who are disabled, on top of the fact that most adults who receive Medicaid work and the number of children and elders who are on Medicaid, there really are only about 6% of the population, the Medicaid population of people who actually don't work. That and the so called able bodied criterion is absurd because most people who have some sort of disabling condition don't have that certified and established through the Social Security Administration. They're not on SSI, they're not on SSDI. But there really is the 53 year old man who can't climb the ladder and check and fix that roof and the woman who has sciatica and can't stand in wait tables for 80 hours a month. And this whole thing is designed to discourage them from getting benefits that they otherwise would get.
- [18:13]
Richard Stengel
Yeah. Congresswoman, always good to talk to you. Thank you for joining us. Representative Gwen Moore tonight. Coming up, after days of being dazzled in the palaces of authoritarians across the Middle east, poor Donald Trump had to leave those lavish locales and return home where that pesky democratic democracy that we've got in America forces him to deal with things like, I don't know, dissent and the rule of law. What to make of a president who goes weak in the knees when he's being hosted by strongmen. Plus, just when you think Donald Trump can't make his cuttery plane controversy worse, he actually does. That's next.
- [18:53]
Ali Velshi
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- [19:22]
Richard Stengel
Okay, we each owe 15 bucks. Can you cover me? Payday can't come soon enough. Haven't you heard? With goto bank, payday comes early. Plus no monthly fees with eligible direct deposits, which means more money for me. Wow, that sounds less like a bank and more like my new go to. You don't need a big bank making you feel small. You need a go to tap to open a Goto bank account today. Early direct deposit availability depends on payer type, timing, payment instructions and bank fraud prevention. Measure no monthly fees with eligible direct deposit. Otherwise, $5 per month. Imagine relying on a dozen different software programs to run your business, none of which are connected, and each one more expensive and more complicated than the last. It can be pretty stressful. Now imagine Odoo. Odoo has all the programs you'll ever need and are all connected on one plat. Doesn't Odoo sound amazing? Let Odoo harmonize your business with simple, efficient software that can handle everything for a fraction of the price. Sign up today@odoo.com that's O-O-O.com okay. Did you think that Donald Trump's attempt to get a $400 million airplane from Qatar couldn't get worse? Spoiler alert. Here's Trump tonight telling the origin story of the $400 million plane on Fox. When we landed, I was parked right next. We parked right next to the 747 of Qatar. And we parked next, there was another 747, two or three of them, which the Arab world has. And when you look at a new 747 and you look at a plane that's 42 years old, not even the same plane, the other ones are bigger and sleeker and sharper, and it doesn't look right. And he said, great gentleman Tamim. He said, I would like to help if you want. I said, how can you help? Well, we happen to have a plane. And I said, well, what do you want to do? He said, you have been. And he doesn't mean me, although I have been good. He means our country. And he said, your country has been very good to us. I would love to do something to help with this situation you have with Air Force One. I said, that's nice. What do you suggest? And he suggested this. And I said, you know what? That's very nice. That's very nice. I appreciate it. What would be the price? He said, there is no price. I said, hmm, that's nice. I made a good deal. We need a plane for a couple of years before we get the other ones, because only it's very late. So if you're actually the president of the United States and somebody gives you a free thing like that, it's not indicative of the fact that you made a good deal. It's actually just indicative of the fact that you're the president of the United States and you have a lot of power and people know how you work. The President of the United States is not actually going to be allowed to ride around in an interim. Cuttery hand me down jet. While a new Air Force One is being built for a lot of very specific military and security reasons, the Air Force ones take a long time to build because of the extensive security required to carry a president. They've got evasive maneuvers and they can refuel in the air. This is just, it's not just a normal fancy plane. Outfitting that Cuttery jet to be an Air Force One could reportedly cost up to a billion dollars. I've seen a lot of estimates, but they're in the hundred million to a billion. Donald Trump said no price because there's no price for Trump if he can get the American taxpayer to pay for it. There's so much more to unpack in that scene that Trump described, which we'll discuss in a moment. Trump's explanation comes after spending days being dazzled by dictator palaces in the repressive Middle Eastern countries en route back to the United States and all the pesky frustrations of the fact that back home he's got this liberal democracy, sputtering though it may be, it's still a liberal democracy. Doesn't seem too happy about it. Maybe that's why he spent today on truth Social, lashing out at his Republican allies in Congress and on the Supreme Court who defied him today. And also, by the way, at Bruce Springsteen and Taylor Swift. Trump raged at Springsteen for speaking out against him on Wednesday night in England. A majority of our elected representatives have.
- [23:57]
Ali Velshi
Failed to protect the American people from.
- [24:02]
Richard Stengel
The abuses of an unfit president and a rogue government. They have no concern or idea idea.
- [24:19]
Ali Velshi
Of what it means to be deeply American.
- [24:23]
Richard Stengel
Now, in fairness, Trump and Springsteen are both. Sorry. Springsteen and Taylor Swift are both billionaires. Unlike Trump, however, or the Petro State royals, these two earned their fortunes. Springsteen and Swift became rich through their talent and their hard work, not through crypto schemes and influence scams and fraudulent universities and stakeholders. Trump also went after the Republican led Supreme Court which ruled against him again today. Quote, the Supreme Court is being played by the radical left losers who have no support and the public hates them. And their only hope is the intimidation of the court itself. We can't let that happen to our country. End quote. 7 to 2 ruling on the Supreme Court. By the way, majority of people on that court support Donald Trump. All of this comes after wrapping up a foreign trip where the President of the United States, the leader of the free world, ostensibly Donald Trump appeared much, much more comfortable in the company of unelected strongmen than with America's democratic allies. In the United Arab Emirates, Trump gushed about how beautiful everything was. Oblivious or indifferent to that country's record of repression and censorship, Trump praised the dictator of Qatar and fawned over ceremonial camels. Carried on a lot about these camels, by the way. In Saudi Arabia, Trump was mesmerized by the pageantry, blinded by the gold. The guards said nothing about the mass executions or people jailed in Saudi Arabia for dissent. As the New York Times writes in its piece about the local reaction to Trump's visit to Saudi Arabia, quote, it's impossible to accurately determine what proportion of Saudis have positive views of Mr. Trump. Cultural norms favor public conformity, and Prince Mohammed has intensified political repression while expanding social freedoms. As a result, many Saudis are reluctant to share their true views in public. The son of a prominent cleric imprisoned in Saudi Arabia castigated Mr. Trump for what he described as whitewashing the reputation of Prince Mohammed, who he said was an authoritarian leader who has brutally silenced all dissent, end quote. Listen for yourself. As Donald Trump played lackey to the crown prince of Saudi Arabia, who, according to US Intelligence, ordered the dismemberment and murder of the Washington Post columnist Jamal Khashoggi during Trump's first term. We have great partners in the world, but we have none stronger. And nobody likes the gentleman that's right before me. He's your greatest representative. Greatest representative. And if I didn't like him, I'd get out of here so fast. He says I like him. He actually said, I think I like him too much. And for anyone suggesting this was strictly business because it was a business trip, remember that most of the, quote, deals that Trump touted were finalized under the Biden administration. The Washington Post reports as Air Force One touched down in the Saudi Arabia, Qatar, and United Arab Emirates, the White House released daily lists of the dozens of deals that it said Trump had secured during his visits. But at least half of the dozen of the contracts were announced before Trump even took office in January. Here's one example the Post gave. Quote, the administration announced $8.5 billion in projects involving the Texas energy company McDermott, except the company previously announced contracts for that initiative during Joe Biden's presidency in 2023 and 2024, end quote. This fawning praise wasn't some strategic negotiating tactic. It was a fraudulent attempt to take credit for Biden's record and, and much more importantly, a way to cozy up to corrupt leaders and perhaps pick a new plane or a golf course or a crypto deal, maybe even a Trump Tower in Damascus in return. Joining us now, Richard Stengel, former undersecretary of State during the Obama administration. He's an MSNBC political analyst and has a great deal of experience in this world of negotiating and dealing with foreign countries, some of which are adversaries, some of which are allies. Rick, through history, presidents have gone to these countries in the Middle east, have wanted something in return, either peace with Israel or less repression on their people or something, but have ultimately left buying oil and selling weaponry and making some deals for American companies. It's how it goes. It's still how it goes. The difference here is that Donald Trump said very clearly in a speech in Riyadh, America is out of the business of telling you how to behave, telling you what we want, talking to you about human rights improvements and discussing regional peace. We're just here for the deals.
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Ali Velshi
Yes, Ali, you've summarized it very well. Certainly American presidents have gone to these countries before. I've been to all three of the countries before, and they do go and make deals, but they're not so effusive in their praise of those countries. They're not fawning, as you said. They're not lackeys. They have a little bit of distance because as you said, these are not Jeffersonian democracies. These are countries that don't allow free speech, that don't permit dissent, where people cannot vote, where there are no legislatures. I mean, they are anti democratic. They are theocracies. And Trump's notion, this what people used to call realism, that we're not gonna lecture you about your internal policies. Well, he's not lecturing these autocracies, but JD Vance is lecturing the Germans on free speech.
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Richard Stengel
Right.
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Ali Velshi
And Trump is lecturing Zelensky on democracy.
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Richard Stengel
Yes.
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Ali Velshi
We lecture our friends. We ignore the excesses of our enemies. That seems to be our new foreign policy. It's a little frightening.
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Richard Stengel
There is one argument, though, that what Donald Trump is doing in the Middle east is kind of what China does. Right. They go around, they make deals, they provide financing, and they don't tell anybody how to behave.
- [30:56]
Ali Velshi
Yes. And by the way, autocrats love it when people say they're not lecturing you. Trump doesn't want to lecture people because he doesn't want to be lectured.
- [31:08]
Richard Stengel
Right.
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Ali Velshi
But you know, Ali, we have done these deals for decades, and even though we talk about, you know, human rights, we've sometimes violated our own principles. But you can make the deal. And still when you're negotiating, say, maybe you can be a little more democratic. Maybe you can have a little more concern for human rights. I saw Barack Obama do that. I saw my boss, John Kerry do that. They made the deal and they said, you should open up your society more. You'll be richer if you have people participating. I mean, I had to laugh at that speech when he said to the Qataris and uae, you've made these riches yourself. As you know, both of those cultures have nine times as many foreign workers working in them as actual citizens. The citizens are not doing the work. The foreign workers, the undocumented immigrants are doing all the labor. So again, it's a form of hypocrisy. I like it when the US Has a foreign policy that has some values to it. It's not just about a deal.
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Richard Stengel
Most of these have been commercial deals. I mean, when Qatar buys 50 planes from Boeing with options for another 150, that kind of deal doesn't get made this week. That's the kind of thing they've been negotiating for a year, if not longer. That said, Donald Trump has done two interesting things. One is that he's bucked Netanyahu and decided that he wants to try to get back into the Iran nuclear deal that he got us out of himself. And number two, he's making some kind of a deal with Syria, which was on nobody's bingo card. Is there some possibility that Donald Trump might actually do some interesting stuff in the Middle east, notwithstanding the fact that he seems to be doing a whole lot of self dealing, getting himself planes and a crypto deal and a golf course and maybe a tower in Damascus.
- [33:02]
Ali Velshi
Yes, indeed. I want to be fair. I welcome and applaud him having a conversation with the new leader of Syria. I wouldn't embrace him and talk about how handsome he is, despite the fact that he spent five years in a US jail in Iraq and he was a member of Al Qaeda. But I do think it's good that we're talking. It's good that we want to try to have that country engineer a kind of rebirth. I think that's a very good thing. I think it's a very good thing to be talking to Iran about a new Iran deal. I mean, you know, I would doubt that President Trump could negotiate a better deal than the Obama deal.
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Richard Stengel
I think it'll look very much like the old deal.
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Ali Velshi
It'll look very much like that. And he'll say it's the greatest deal in history. Again, that's fine. Particularly if we keep Iran from being involved in making a nuclear weapon. But yeah, so he is shaking things up in that regard. And that's not a bad thing to be seen.
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Richard Stengel
I guess. You as you pointed out, I mean, the Syria thing was interesting, but he then went and commented on how handsome the new leader of Syria is. It's always a bit confusing trying to keep track of where his head is. Rick, good to see you as always. My friend Rick Stengel joining us.
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Ali Velshi
Thank you, Alex.
- [34:19]
Richard Stengel
Coming up, the clear loser again this week in Donald Trump's global trade war. You, the American consumer. That's next. Okay, we each owe 15 bucks. Can you cover me? Payday can't come soon enough. Haven't you heard? With Goto bank, payday comes early. Plus no monthly fees with eligible direct deposits, which means more money for me. Wow, that sounds less like a bank and more like my new Go to. You don't need a big bank making you feel small. You need a Go to tap to open a Go to bank account today. Early direct deposit availability depends on payer type, timing, payment instructions and bank fraud prevention. Measure no monthly fees with eligible direct deposit. Otherwise $5 per month. Imagine relying on a dozen different software programs to run your business, none of which are connected, and each one more expensive and more complicated than the last. It can be pretty stressful. Now imagine Odoo. Odoo has all the programs you'll ever need and they're all connected on one platform. Doesn't Odoo sound amazing? Let Odoo harmonize your business with simple, efficient software that can handle everything for a fraction of the price. Sign up today@odoo.com that's o d o o.com busy work weeks can leave you feeling drained. Prolon's five day nutrition program rejuvenates you at the cellular level with boxes labeled by day so you know exactly what to eat. Developed at USC's Longevity Institute, Prolon supports biological age reduction, metabolism, skin health and fat loss when combined with proper exercise and nutrition. Get 15% off plus a $40 bonus gift when you subscribe at these statements have not been evaluated by the fda. Products are not intended to diagnose, treat or prevent disease. See site for details to the surprise of absolutely no one, this hasn't aged well. I'm just saying they don't need to have $30. They can have three. They don't need to have 250 pencils. They can have five. Never had 250 pencils in my life. By the way, CNBC reports Tonight, that consumer sentiment is down, which comes on the same day that MOV Moody's downgraded the US Credit rating one notch. The United States credit rating stock market is giving us real time feedback on Donald Trump's trade wars. U.S. stocks ended the week erasing most of the losses that have been seen Since Donald Trump's April 2 tariff announcement, liberation Day or whatever. It was a clear signal to Trump to make the temporary pause on most of the China tariffs permanent. Here's how Donald Trump described the turmoil that he's forcing on you, the American consumer. We had a situation six months ago. We were losing $5 billion a day on trade. Now we're making money on trade. Don't forget we were losing a trillion dollars to China. So we essentially went cold turkey with China for a period of a month. Therefore, we weren't losing a trillion dollars. You know, I think that's pretty simple, Scott. Right. Okay. Just notwithstanding the fact that his numbers and his math are wrong. That's not the point. That was like me as a student. The math was wrong. Conceptually, he's entirely wrong. It is a highly abnormal way to look at what he was just describing. Purchasing. A person who goes into a pizza shop and comes out with 20 fewer dollars in their wallet, but a pizza doesn't describe the transaction as a loss. They would say, I bought a pizza. An economist might even say, the pizza buyer got more than dinner. They also saved the time and effort that it would have taken to make dinner and shop for the ingredients. Cornell Professor Lawrence Glickman, who's written about the history of free markets, posted about Trump's anti market worldview. He joins us now. He's the author of multiple books on the US Economy, including A Free Enterprise and American History. Professor Glickman, we could start this conversation anywhere about, about trade deficits, about tariffs, because Donald Trump has unusual and unorthodox views about all of those things. But let's start with something far more basic. Transactions, the basis of everything that has happened between humanity since there were two humans on Earth. Right? The you've got something I want, I've got something you want used to be barter, then it became the silk root. And then we invented money, which was fantastic. You could just take coins and bills and say, I will give you these in exchange for the wheat or the silk or the pizza that I need. Nobody thought that was a bad deal. Nobody thought that all of a sudden you were getting cheated.
- [38:59]
Ali Velshi
Absolutely. In fact, Republicans, especially since Ronald Reagan, have talked about the free market as a Magical place in which, you know, it's a very much a non zero sum world. Trump's vision is quite the opposite. He can't imagine an exchange in which one side isn't screwing over the other. And of course, he always wants to be the one taking advantage of the other side. Getting things without paying for them is his ideal vision.
- [39:28]
Richard Stengel
Let's talk about the non zero sum world for an example. Use any analogy you'd like. Going to the grocery store, right? I go, I buy orange juice. I now have orange juice, which is what I was craving. The grocery store has money. They can then do what it is they do to their distributors, who can grow more oranges, process more oranges, ship more oranges. It's more than a zero sum game because both parties actually get something they need in order to go on with their life and make it happier.
- [39:57]
Ali Velshi
Absolutely. And it's interesting that he talked about limiting the number of pencils that to five rather than 250, because the pencil was sort of the classic example of free market exchange in which all sides benefit. Milton Friedman and his famous documentary Free to Choose, the libertarian economist began that series with holding a pencil and talking about what a miracle it was that for a few minutes of your time, you could get the work of thousands of other people who you never met to get a very cheap but miraculous product that no single person knew how to make. But through the magic of the price system, all of us benefited from it.
- [40:41]
Richard Stengel
Yes, pencil, super cheap. But if you had to make a pencil, it would be the next week of your life because you know how to make a pencil. Let's talk about something else Milton Friedman talked about and people who respect free markets is that one of the best things about a free market is that the government doesn't tell you how many dolls you can buy or how many pencils you should buy. When you start looking at a planned economy where the government determines how many dolls or pencils or pizzas or or orange juices you should buy, you end up in a situation that has not worked in the economic history of this world.
- [41:12]
Ali Velshi
That's exactly right. And what's so interesting is that in many ways, President Trump promotes fairly traditional conservative economic ideas like tax cuts, like deregulation and so forth. But he really doesn't like the idea of a frictionless free market in which everybody benefits. He likes the idea of there being winners and losers. He likes the idea of being able to tell people what they can and can't do. And I think very much fearing that he might be told what he can and can't do. And so I think a lot of it is driven by a psychology that sees that really can't see the possibility of trade benefiting all parties.
- [41:58]
Richard Stengel
Professor, good to talk to you. Thank you very much for a good little economic Professor Larry Glickman at Cornell University. All right, coming up, the extremism of Trump 2.0 has forced one other elected Republican to leave what was once the party of Lincoln and is now the party of Trump. That former Republican turned Democrat joins us next. The party has changed. That's what Orlando politician, an Orlando politician said about why he is leaving the Republican Party. Orlando City Commissioner Ortiz is a retired police officer. He's a United States Marine veteran. He served on the city commission for 17 years representing a diverse working class district in Orlando. Now, Orlando City Council and mayor are like many cities in America, they're nonpartisan positions. Tony Ortiz was one of two registered Republicans on the seven member panel before he switched parties. In an op ed for the Orlando Sentinel, Tony Ortiz writes, quote, service has never been about party labels or political wins. It's been about people about standing up, showing up and doing the right thing, even when it's not easy. And let me say this clearly, the marginalization of Latinos and immigrants, many whom have helped build this country and proudly served in its defense, is not leadership. It's fear based politics. That's why I'm choosing to stand with a party that better reflects the values I've always lived by, the Democratic Party. Joining us now is the Orlando City Commissioner, Tony Ortiz. Commissioner Ortiz, good to see you. Thank you for being with us. How are you doing? Thank you for having me. I have to ask you, and I understand that in some cities everything is not hyper politicized because your election as a commissioner or a city councilor is not tied to a political party in the way it is in other cities. That said, what caused you to do this? Violence is no longer an option. The party I joined a few decades ago is no longer there. And I'm not going to align myself with the policies that are hurting the people there, the veterans, the immigrants and the working families out there. We need to go ahead and put a stop to this. What did you know? What did you realize now in 2025 that wasn't as clear to you? Perhaps in 2015, 2016? You were mentioning before, you know, the party of Ronald Reagan, that party that believe in immigrants, the party that believe in no tariffs no longer exists. I mean, this is not a party of the people. It's not a party that is listening to the people. It's a party that is coming up with policies on their own. And we're all supposed to be about the people. In fact, when Ronald Reagan and George H.W. bush were running against each other for the nomination of the party, there was a debate in which they were both kind of trying to outdo each other in saying, how do we get these undocumented immigrants into being documented so that they can actually work here, whether it's work permits or a path to citizenship or whatever the case is. Back then, that was a premier Republican objective. Yes. And the best policy ever, the reform of 1986, where he allowed for amnesty. And that way we kept who we needed here in order to work with our communities and to become Americans. And if we have to get rid of criminals, that's fine. But there's many, many people that have come to this country for a number of issues and we need to make sure that we safeguard their purpose and we led them to continue helping us be the best nation in the world. What's the reaction been from your constituents and from your friends and your fellow Republicans? You know, this is funny to say, but as a lot of Republicans have been telling me, you know what, thank you for saying what we have not been able to say. We're afraid of saying it. And they appreciate it and it's been a great way. Welcome. Well, Tony Ortiz, thank you for joining us tonight. We appreciate hearing your story and we wish you continued good luck. TONY ortiz, ORLANDO CITY COMMISSIONER, we'll be right back. The state of South Carolina just edged out Utah for a dubious distinction, the most state mandated book bans in America. On the list is a beautiful coming of age story called Last Night at the Telegraph Club, written by the newest member of the Velshi Band Book club, Melinda Louis. Set in 1954 San Francisco under the shroud of McCarthyism and the targeting of LGBTQ Americans, the book follows a 17 year old Chinese American girl who finds herself falling in love with another girl. Every reader of any age group is going to see themselves in the triumphs and the heartbreaks of this story. So please join us tomorrow at 10am Eastern for my conversation with the award winning author Melinda Lo right here on msnbc. That is tonight's last word.
- [46:40]
Ali Velshi
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- [47:09]
Richard Stengel
Com.