Texas Democrats deny GOP quorum to pass unfair map

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Last Word with Lawrence O’Donnell Episode: Texas Democrats Deny GOP Quorum to Pass Unfair Map
Release Date: August 9, 2025

---

Introduction

In this compelling episode of The Last Word with Lawrence O’Donnell, host Jonathan Capehart delves into the intense political maneuvering surrounding Texas Democrats' strategic decision to deny the Republican Party a quorum. This move aims to block the passage of a newly proposed congressional map deemed unfair by Democrats. The episode also explores broader implications of President Donald Trump's administration on the economy, the Epstein scandal, and the Supreme Court's stance on voting rights.

---

Texas Democrats' Quorum Denial

Jonathan Capehart opens the discussion highlighting an article by colleague Jonathan Lemer for The Atlantic, which underscores the deteriorating mood within the White House as Trump's challenges mount (04:00). Capehart explains that Trump's influence among Republicans may be waning, evidenced by attempts to distance the GOP from his legislative initiatives due to poor poll numbers.

Key Points:

• Strategic Departure: Texas Democrats, including 13 state lawmakers, have left the state for five consecutive days to prevent a quorum. This tactic aims to obstruct the passage of a GOP-friendly congressional map that could shift five House seats in favor of Republicans for the 2026 midterms (04:00).

• Legal Actions: Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton filed a lawsuit seeking the removal of these Democrats from their offices. Additionally, Senator John Cornyn supports this move by submitting an amicus brief to the Texas Supreme Court (04:05).

• Democratic Response: Gina Hinojosa, Texas State Representative, attests to the legality and necessity of breaking quorum:

  “It is shameful for any, for our governor or for our Attorney General to try to remove a duly elected representative.”
  (07:20)

• Concerns Over FBI Involvement: Democrats, including Jasmine Crockett, express alarm over the FBI’s involvement in locating absent lawmakers, viewing it as an abuse of power aimed at targeting political adversaries rather than addressing genuine criminal activities (04:00 - 09:47).

---

Implications of Trump's Administration

Handling of the Epstein Scandal

The episode touches on ongoing controversies involving the Trump administration's handling of the Jeffrey Epstein case. A lawyer for Epstein’s survivors criticizes the Justice Department's latest moves as distractions that perpetuate the story without yielding new insights (18:19 - 21:55).

Key Points:

• Court Filings: The Trump Justice Department seeks to unseal grand jury exhibits and transcripts related to Epstein and Maxwell, which lawyers argue is a diversion.
• Survivor Advocacy: Survivors emphasize the need for hearings focused on their testimonies rather than relitigating Epstein's actions, highlighting the re-traumatization caused by the current legal maneuvers (17:40 - 23:42).

Economic Policies and IRS Leadership

Heather Long, Chief Economist at Navy Federal Credit Union, discusses the adverse effects of Trump’s tariff policies and economic decisions, which have led to increased unemployment and economic uncertainty (26:42 - 34:33).

Key Points:

• Tariffs and Inflation: Tariffs have negatively impacted businesses and consumers, contributing to rising inflation and a stagnant job market.
• IRS Commissioner Dismissal: Billy Long, recently appointed IRS Commissioner, was removed after clashing with Treasury Secretary Scott Bessant and making erroneous statements about the tax filing season (27:35).

Representative Gina Hinojosa elaborates on the K-shaped economy exacerbated by tariffs, where the wealthy remain unaffected while the middle and lower classes suffer increasing financial strain (31:27 - 34:17).

---

Economic Analysis: K-Shaped Recovery and AI Impact

Heather Long offers an in-depth analysis of the current economic climate, describing a return to a K-shaped recovery where high-income individuals thrive while the majority face financial hardships. She attributes this trend to Trump's trade policies and the emerging influence of AI on the job market (26:42 - 33:48).

Key Points:

• Middle-Class Struggles: Rising costs and stagnant wages are pushing middle-class families into financial instability.
• AI and Employment: The limited investment in diverse industries, aside from AI, is leading to a frozen labor market with minimal hiring and increasing layoffs (32:45 - 33:48).

Representative Conor Lamb echoes these sentiments, emphasizing the need for Democrats to focus on actionable policies that directly impact constituents, such as healthcare and education, rather than solely criticizing grocery prices, which are beyond government control (34:33 - 36:26).

---

Supreme Court and Voting Rights

The episode shifts focus to the Supreme Court's upcoming review of Louisiana's redistricting case, which challenges Section 2 of the Voting Rights Act. Melissa Murray, an MSNBC legal analyst, explains the potential ramifications for minority voting rights (37:53 - 45:08).

Key Points:

• Louisiana v. Kelly: The case questions whether the consideration of race in drawing congressional districts violates the Constitution’s 14th and 15th Amendments.
• Preclearance to Section 2: While the preclearance requirements were struck down in 2013’s Shelby County v. Holder, Section 2 remains contested. The Supreme Court's decision could significantly impact the ability to protect minority voting rights (42:19 - 45:08).
• Racial Implications: Jasmine Crockett highlights the racial undertones in redistricting efforts, suggesting that reducing minority representation is a tactic to suppress voter turnout among communities of color (41:23 - 42:19).

---

Closing Remarks: Lessons from History

Jonathan Capehart concludes the episode with a historical comparison to President Richard Nixon's resignation, underscoring the potential dangers of executive overreach. He reflects on how Nixon, despite a landslide victory, ended his presidency in disgrace, drawing parallels to Trump’s tumultuous tenure (46:19 - 46:44).

---

Notable Quotes with Attribution and Timestamps

• Gina Hinojosa (07:20):

  “It is shameful for any, for our governor or for our Attorney General to try to remove a duly elected representative.”

• Jasmine Crockett (09:47):

  “Representation is about holding the president and Republican members of Congress accountable for those terrible poll numbers.”

• Representative Gina Hinojosa (31:27):

  “In the months ahead, we're Talking about potentially $2,000 more a year for the average household...”

• Rob Lowe (35:05):

  “People see the news about the tariffs. They definitely know that prices have not gone down in any meaningful way...”

• Jasmine Crockett (42:26):

  “Any use of race is per se unconstitutional, even when it's meant in a remedial way.”

---

Conclusion

This episode of The Last Word with Lawrence O’Donnell offers a multifaceted examination of current political strategies, economic challenges, and judicial decisions shaping America’s landscape. By highlighting the tactical moves of Texas Democrats, scrutinizing Trump’s policies, and addressing critical voting rights issues, the podcast provides listeners with a comprehensive understanding of the forces at play in the nation's ongoing political and economic battles.

---

Note: The transcript contains advertisements and non-content segments hosted by Rob Lowe and others, which have been excluded from this summary to focus solely on the substantive discussions relevant to the episode's main themes.

Transcript

[Rob Lowe]

Hey, everybody, it's Rob Lowe here. If you haven't heard, I have a podcast that's called Literally with Rob Lowe. And basically it's conversations I've had that really make you feel like you're pulling up a chair at an intimate dinner between myself and people that I admire, like Aaron Sorkin or Tiffany Haddish, Demi Moore, Chris Pratt, Michael J. Fox. There are new episodes out every Thursday, so subscribe, please, and listen wherever you get your podcasts.

[Jonathan Capehart]

Cash Flow Crunch, Ondeck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds up to $100,000 right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply [e-mail] funds could be available as soon as tomorrow, depending on your business. Loan may be issued by Ondeck or Celtic. Bank on Deck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

[Jen Psaki]

The Last word starts right now with.

[Jonathan Capehart]

Jonathan Capehart in the anchor chair.

[Jen Psaki]

Hey, Jonathan.

[Jonathan Capehart]

Hey, Jen. So, Ambassador to Reykjavik, that sounds. Are you interested in that one? I mean, actually, I've always wanted to go to Iceland, but maybe.

[Gina Hinojosa]

Me too.

[Jonathan Capehart]

Not like that. Also, Scott Bessant with another job. As you pointed out, he's Treasury Secretary. He's sort of like the Marco Rubio who's got like 12 jobs in addition to being Secretary of State.

[Jasmine Crockett]

It's a little.

[Jonathan Capehart]

And I'm not. I don't really think the Treasury Secretary.

[Jen Psaki]

Should also be the IRS commissioner. But, yeah, he's got a full time job. Yeah, lots to be done by the Treasury Secretary.

[Jonathan Capehart]

Yeah, lots. And now he's got even more. Jen, you've got. You've got a weekend to go. Enjoy. Thank you very much.

[Jen Psaki]

Thank you, John. Have a great show.

[Jonathan Capehart]

All right. Things aren't going Donald Trump's way. That's the headline of a new article written by my MSNBC colleague Jonathan Lemer for the Atlantic. Jonathan writes, the mood in the White House has darkened in the past month as the President's challenges have grown deeper. Trump's superpower at home has long been to command intense loyalty from fellow Republicans. Yet that power might be hitting its limit. He was able to pressure the GOP to pass his one big, beautiful bill last month, but some Republicans, seeing its shaky poll numbers, have already tried to distance themselves from it. Then there's Epstein. Trump has desperately wished the story away. He feels deeply betrayed by his MAGA supporters who believed him when he intimated during the campaign that something was nefarious about the government's handling of the case, and who now have a hard time believing him when he says their suspicions are actually bogus. A new poll from CNBC finds more than half of Americans 51% disapprove of Donald Trump's job as president 53% disapprove of his handling of the economy 60% disapprove of his handling of inflation and the cost of living. The poll also finds 49% of Americans now prefer to have Democrats in control of Congress. That's compared to 44% for Republicans, which is precisely why Donald Trump has cooked up his latest power grab, this time in Texas, where at his urging, the governor and state legislature are trying to pass a new congressional map that could flip five House seats for Republicans in the 2026 midterm elections. It's a scheme that could extend past the Lone Star State, with Republican leaders in Indiana and Florida now looking to change their state maps to add House seats as well. It's also why Texas Democrats have been on the run for the past week, leaving the Texas state House unable to do business.

[Rob Lowe]

There being 95 members present, a quorum is not present.

[Jonathan Capehart]

Those Texas Democrats have broken quorum five straight days by leaving the state, the Hill reports. Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton filed a lawsuit on Friday looking to vacate the seats of 13 Democratic state lawmakers who fled Texas in a bid to block Republicans from passing a new GOP friendly House map. Paxton is asking the Texas Supreme Court to declare that the 13 lawmakers have vacated their offices. And after roughly 50 lawmakers left the state beginning on Sunday in a bid to block the passage of new maps, Senator John Cornyn of Texas, who just happens to be looking at a 2026 Republican primary against Ken Paxton, is also backing their removal, filing an amicus brief today to the Texas Supreme Court in support of the removal petition. And despite not breaking any laws, Senator Cornyn announced that the FBI agreed to, quote, assist state and local law enforcement in locating runaway Texas House Democrats. The top Democrat in the United States House of Representatives, Hakeem Jeffries, commented on that yesterday. John Cornyn is a dead senator walking. And this is another example of a desperate ploy to try to save his own skin, even if it means engaging the FBI in what would be a corrupt abuse of power by the Trump administration. The FBI should be spending its time chasing down violent criminals, terrorists, drug traffickers and child predators, not targeting political adversaries in a democracy here in America. Several Democrats in the U.S. house of Representatives, including Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett of Texas, who will join me in just a few minutes, have written a letter to FBI Director Kash Patel and Attorney General Pam Bondi. We write with great concern about the abuse of federal public safety resources for completely political purposes and without a law enforcement rationale that is reportedly taking place right now. We demand information about the Federal Bureau of Investigation's involvement in efforts to locate or apprehend members of the Texas House of Representatives who are not accused of any federal crime, but have chosen to break quorum during the current legislative session. Right now, many of those Texas Democrats are being safely hosted by Democratic governors in states like Illinois, New York, and California. Earlier tonight, California Governor Gavin Newsom stood alongside several Texas Democrats, including my next guest, Texas State Representative Gina Hinojosa.

[Rob Lowe]

Had it not been for the courage of the Democratic representatives from Texas to stand tall and to stand up, to walk out, as is their right, as old a principle as American pie, the ability for a minority to walk out. When it comes to the abuses of.

[Jen Psaki]

A majority, you should know. Just two days ago, I checked in with my office. We had had 700 calls on this bill proposing a new map that hadn't even. It hasn't even been out a week for the public to see. Four were opposed. The rest were all in support of my breaking quorum. I'm doing exactly what my constituents want, and it is shameful for any, for our governor or for our Attorney general to try to remove a duly elected representative.

[Jonathan Capehart]

And joining us now from California is Texas State Representative Gina Hinojosa. Representative, thank you very much for coming to the last word. You've been away from Texas for almost a week now. How long do you plan to stay away?

[Jen Psaki]

Well, we take it day by day. We are in a legislative special session in which they are trying to pass these Trump maps. And I intend to stay out for at least till the end of this legislative session. And then we reassess and we take the fight on. Every day. We fight to win, and that's what I intend to do.

[Jonathan Capehart]

You were One of the 13 Democrats named in Attorney General Paxton's lawsuit. Do you know what kind of legal defense your group will be mounting?

[Jen Psaki]

Well, let's start off by saying that the Attorney General is acting in outside of the bounds of the law. This is lawlessness. It is in keeping with what we see from the president having his Attorney general say, they are targeting our maps. They are targeting congressional districts because they are majority minority. This is in keeping with our Senator, who is asking the FBI to surveil political opponents. We are no longer on our way to an authoritarian country. We are no longer approaching authoritarianism. We are there. We have fallen off the cliff. This is not lawful to remove a duly elected representative for breaking quorum, which Texas legislators have been doing for 150 years. It is a procedural tool in the toolbox that we use to represent our constituents, to protect the rights and the voices of our constituents in this case, and my constituents overwhelmingly support it, and it is shameful that they would try to remove me and any of my colleagues who were duly elected to serve in this position.

[Jonathan Capehart]

Representative, any concern that these moves by the governor and the attorney general, that they will crack the resolve that is there now among Democrats? Do you think that Democrats will hang together through the end of this current special session?

[Jen Psaki]

What I can say is that these acts just remind us what is at stake, what is on the line. And it is fundamentally who we are as Americans. That's what representation is about, right? That's what they're trying to take away. Representation is about holding the president and Republican members of Congress accountable for those terrible poll numbers. You just saw where they're underwater when it comes to the economy, where they're underwater when it comes to inflation, because their policies are deeply unpopular and harmful and hurtful to American families, to Texas families. They are trying to now prohibit, block the American people and Texans from holding them accountable. That is absolutely contrary to who we are as Americans, and that's what we're fighting for.

[Jonathan Capehart]

You know, the governor, the Republican governor, Greg Abbott, has threatened to expand the the Texas redistricting. He said on a podcast this week, and I'm quoting here, what I'm thinking now is that if they don't start showing up, I may start expanding. We may make it six or seven or eight new seats. We're going to be adding on the Republican side. Representative, you know, Jose, your reaction to that?

[Jen Psaki]

They are just now throwing anything at the wall to see what sticks. They are. They know that they've been exposed as cheaters and they're trying to figure out how to turn this narrative around. Because what they are trying to do is to steal the next election from the American people. They are trying to so manipulate these congressional maps so as to predetermine the outcome of the 2026 election in favor of a Republican majority. They have been found out. The whole world now knows what they are doing because of our act of defiance has brought attention on. On what Abbott and Trump are doing. And they're doing anything they can to try to change the narrative, talk about.

[Jonathan Capehart]

What this means for you and your fellow Democrats to leave your homes and families to make this stand.

[Jen Psaki]

It's not easy to leave our homes. Many members have jobs. These aren't full time jobs. We're paid $7,500 a year. And so this is a hardship. But if you think about what's at stake and I think about my own family and I have a son in middle school and I do this for him, yes, it is hard to be away from him. But I need to know that I did everything in my power so that he grows up in a country that I still recognize as being as holding great promise for him and for all Americans. And so, yes, it's hard, but it's also why we do what we do.

[Jonathan Capehart]

Texas State Representative Gina Hinojosa, thank you very much for coming to the Last Word and for what you're doing. Joining us now is Democratic Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett of Texas. She is a member of the House Oversight and Judiciary Committees. Congresswoman, great to see you. What are you doing to assist Texas Democrats that have left the state?

[Heather Long]

Oh, anything that I can, that is for sure. I think that it's really important to amplify their stories. So, so thank you for talking to the amazing Gina Hinojosa, who I had an honor of serving with and absolutely. When we were trying to get out of there last time when I was in the State House, I can remember the conversations that Gina and I had as she was yet a lead architect of making sure that we broke quorum, then the awareness around the issue is really important. People need to understand that, number one, Democrats are fighting back. Number two, they also need to understand that the people that claim to be the party of law and order are nothing but lawless thugs. The fact that they are investing our taxpayer dollars and resources into hunting down duly elected officials instead of say, going after pedophiles, the fact that they have a bigger issue with those that decide that they want to make sure that they can raise an awareness and raise the voices and issues of their constituen over protecting, say, pedophiles. I mean, the fact that they can't see the difference in why it was that we had to go on recess early versus why it is that these Texas Democrats are real heroes in this moment who are not even fighting for their own seats. This isn't even personal for them. This is about our democracy. This tells you which party is actually the party of morality. And it is absolutely the Democrats.

[Jonathan Capehart]

Congresswoman, have you heard back from the FBI Director Kash Patel or Attorney General Pam Bondi about your letter? The one that I read in the intro?

[Heather Long]

I have not. But we know that Pam Bondi loves to talk to a certain news network and say what she needs to say. So I'm sure she's in receipts of our letter. I'm sure that I would hear something from that news network before I hear something in more of a formal fashion as we sent her something in our official capacity. In a formal fashion, yeah.

[Jonathan Capehart]

Congresswoman, what do you make of Democratic governors like California Governor Gavin Newsom planning to counter the Texas map? Do you worry at all that this will just set off a long chain of state redistricting?

[Heather Long]

No, I don't worry at all. Because let me tell you something. When Republicans decide that they want to go to hell on something, they go for the jugular. Like, they don't hold back. Right? So, so here's the reality. We understand that J.D. vance is in Indiana right now trying to twist arms so that they can get two seats there. We understand that he has been putting pressure on Missouri to try to get one seat there. In fact, there are rumors that they already have the map for Missouri. We understand that Florida has already decided that they're going to move forward. So these people do not care about doing what is right by the people that elected them and put them into power. Because when I say that I'm fighting, it's not even a partisan fight that I'm engaging in. I'm engaging in a fight for democracy, a fight that allows people to be held accountable when it is that the people are not liking what you're doing. And we know what the poll numbers are. We know what it is when the Republicans show up in their very red districts and their constituents are coming out and yelling at them and telling them that they hate the big ugly bill. We know what it is and so think that while it is that he thinks that he's being very smart in this moment when we know it's nothing more than just him being evil. I really believe in the people. I am believing that those very same people that have decided to hold their own representatives accountable, I believe that those people are going to show up and they are actually going to do what is in their best interest, which is vote against the Republicans up and down the ticket. Because Donald Trump didn't do any of this by himself. He has done this with his co conspirators that are in the House, that are in the Senate, as well as obviously this corrupt Supreme Court.

[Jonathan Capehart]

And with that, Congressman Crockett, you're not going anywhere. You stay with us. I want to get your reaction to the latest on the Epstein scandal that is taking over the Trump White House. And that is next.

[Rob Lowe]

This is Comedy Bang Bang the Podcast the promo and in 30 seconds I'm going to tell you why you should.

[Jonathan Capehart]

Check out the show.

[Rob Lowe]

I the host Scott Aukerman, have a lighthearted conversation with famous celebrities like Jon Hamm, Alison Williams, Phoebe Bridgers, Jason Alexander, Natasha Lyonne, Bob Odenkirk, just to name a few things. Go a little off the rails when different eccentric characters and oddballs drop by to be interviewed as well. Each week is a blend of conversations and character work from your favorite comedians, as well as some new hilarious voices. Comedy Bang Bang the Podcast Listen every.

[Jonathan Capehart]

Monday wherever you get your podcast.

[Jasmine Crockett]

Cash Flow Crunch on Deck's small Business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds up to $100,000 right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply [e-mail] funds could be available as soon as tomorrow, depending on certain loan attributes. Your business loan may be issued by Ondeck or Celtic Bank. Ondeck does not lend in North Dakota, all loans and amounts subject to lender appro approval.

[Jonathan Capehart]

Summer's heating up, and so is the action with chumba casino and 2311 racing. Whether you're trackside with Bubba, Riley and Tyler or cooling off at home, the fun never stops at Chumba Casino, the online social casino packed with free to play games like slots, blackjack and more. Jump into [e-mail] and score your free welcome bonus 2 million free gold coins and 2 free sweeps coins. No purchase necessary. VGW group void where prohibited by law. CTNC is 21 + sponsored by Chumba Casino A useless and intentional distraction. That is what one lawyer for several survivors of convicted sex trafficker Jeffrey Epstein and his co conspirator Ghislaine Maxwell said about the latest move by Trump's Justice Department to try to quell the backlash over their mishandling of the Epstein files. In a court filing today, the Trump Justice Department requested the unsealing of the grand jury exhibits from the Epstein and Maxwell cases, in addition to unsealing the grand jury transcripts. Jack Scarola, a lawyer for some of the survivors, told NBC News. And I'm quoting the pursuit of grand jury materials and transcripts is a useless and intentional distraction. We will learn nothing by chasing that rabbit. Even Trump's Justice Department admitted this week that there might not be much new in the grand jury transcripts that hasn't been publicly reported. So there's that distraction while we wait to see if Donald Trump will release an audio recording or a transcript from the interview his former defense attorney, Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche, conducted with Ghislaine Maxwell just one week before her transfer to a lower security prison camp. And more survivors of the sexual violence committed by Jeffrey Epstein keep speaking out. One wrote in a letter to the judge, quote, I am not some pawn in your political warfare. What you have done and continue to do is eating at me day after day as you help to perpetuate this story indefinitely. In another letter, lawyers for other survivors wrote. For survivors who bravely testified, the perception that Ms. Maxwell is being legitimized in public discourse has already resulted in re traumatization oversight. Democrats are urging the Republican chairman to let survivors testify to the committee. We know the documents will not tell the full story. Furthermore, hearing Maxwell's testimony while ignoring those who were abused would only contribute to more pain for survivors, more misinformation for the public, and a failure of this committee's responsibility to pursue truth. A public hearing focused on survivors who wish to speak out would be a meaningful step towards transparency, accountability, and healing. Excuse me. Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett is back with us. Congresswoman, your committee subpoenaed the Epstein files. Where are they?

[Heather Long]

I don't know. We ain't got them, though. I can tell you that it was a subcommittee that is led by the incomparable Summer Lee. When they thought they were being so smart and sending us out, there was still this hearing that was set and it allowed for this subcommittee to go ahead in a bipartisan way subpoena those files. It took comer a little bit before he actually sent the subpoena off, but he did finally send the subpoena off. And so I believe, I believe they get up to 30 days or so to return the documents to us. And that letter just went out. So we don't have them yet. Or at least I've not been informed that we have them. And I don't anticipate that they're going to turn anything in early. But I do want to make a comment about this other kind of request that we're making. I think that for so long, there's so many women that were not believed, or if they were believed, their pain and trauma was minimized. This is why we saw the slap on the wrist for Epstein himself. And this is why now we see that this convicted felon, who was given 20 years is now getting the pamper treatment. Do think it is important that we allow those that actually want to be heard, because we do live in a crazy environment where unfortunately, sometimes speaking out and telling your truth can lead to people wishing or trying to cause some harm to you. But I do think that it is time for those that are survivors and want to be heard, for them to absolutely have a platform that is open to hearing their truth.

[Jonathan Capehart]

Chairman Comer postponed, excuse me, Maxwell's deposition until the Supreme Court makes the decision on her case. What would you ask Maxwell? And do you think we'll ever find out what Todd Blanche asked her?

[Heather Long]

Yeah, you know, here's the deal. I personally think that she's already been tainted, so I'm not really sure what I would ask her. As I've sat through some of these depositions as well as just some of these transcribed interviews, I oftentimes listen, um, the majority's attorneys go through their questions that typically are not very good. Um, and then every once in a while, you know, maybe somebody else will chime in. But honestly, as a trained attorney, I then come back and I summarize and I do my best to kind of kill any and everything that they've done that kind of doesn't make sense. Um, so I recently had a situation like that as relates to another matter. Um, so I will say this. I don't trust that she would ever be as transparent as we needed to be because she wants this very corrupt president to go ahead and let her go free. And I personally really want to know about any and everybody. I don't really have this idea of. I'm just wanting to know whether or not Trump is a creep, which I think we already know that. I don't know that we necessarily need to talk to her to know that he's a creep. But I want to know how was it that this was allowed to go on? I want to know how deep this goes. I want to know, like, if she's aware as to why, you know, Epstein was let go with a slap on her wrist. Like, these are the things that I would want to dig into so that any and everybody that was involved in the COVID up, because the crime is absolutely horrific. But the problem is that we've had so many people that have covered for these criminals, just like we have those that are sitting in the US House, the US Senate, as well as the Supreme Court that are covering for the criminal in chief that's currently in the White House.

[Jonathan Capehart]

And the best way to find out how far this goes, the question you're asking is to release the files. Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett of Texas, thank you very much for coming to the last word.

[Heather Long]

Good to see you.

[Jonathan Capehart]

And coming up, economic data is not looking good as Trump's illegal tariffs are starting to have the negative effect that were predicted by every economist who isn't a Trump sycophant. Things are so bad, Trump, a self proclaimed genius, made up his own numbers and stood in front of them on charts in the Oval Office. One chart included the phrase medium incomes, not median incomes. Medium incomes like a shirt. Now wouldn't you think a genius businessman would notice a mistake like that? More on the worst week for the Trump 2.0 economy is next.

[Rob Lowe]

We are not going to let Trump take us to an authoritarian society. And the working people of this country understand there is something profoundly wrong when you have a president who gives a trillion dollars in tax breaks to the top 1% and then makes massive cuts to Medicaid. 15 million Americans, including 50,000 right here in West Virginia, are going to lose their health care.

[Jonathan Capehart]

That was Senator Bernie Sanders in Wheeling, West Virginia tonight. And now the head of the agency tasked with implementing and enforcing the Trump tax cuts has been removed today. Billy Long, who was confirmed just two months ago, is out as IRS commissioner. The New York Times reports, quote, Mr. Long, who had little background in tax policy beyond promoting a fraud riddled tax credit, had clashed at times with Treasury Secretary Scott Bessant during his brief tenure. Three people familiar with the decision said he also made high profile mistakes at one point last month, telling tax practitioners that the agency's all important filing season would start late next year. A statement that the IRS later said was premature. There had been hope among some at the IRS that Mr. Long would restore some amount of stability to the agency even though he had supported legislation calling for its abolition. While in Congress, Treasury Secretary Scott Besant will serve as acting commissioner, becoming the sixth person to lead the IRS since Trump's second term began. Yesterday, hours after the Trump tariffs went into effect, Bessen admitted on this network that Americans pay for the Trump tariffs. The check is written by the importer right at the dock. Yeah. And because tariffs are attacks on American businesses and consumers, Donald Trump's tariff and economic policies are increasingly unpopular. A new cnbc poll shows 51% of Americans disapprove of Trump's handling of tariffs. 60% disapprove of his handling of inflation and the cost of living. And Donald Trump's overall economic approval rating remains negative with only 53% of people disapproving. That's a lot of people. According to the latest labor department data, nearly 2 million Americans are collecting unemployment. The Washington Post reports, quote, the number of Americans receiving unemployment benefits for at least a week rose to the highest level since November 2021. A separate jobs report released last week showed that employers are hiring at close to the slowest pace in more than a decade, excluding the pandemic. Our next guest says the economy, the Trump economy, is cracking. Heather Long writes in the Washington Post, quote, the economy is increasingly dependent on a small sliver of superstar companies and wealthy consumers to stay afloat because these are the only firms and families able to withstand the tariff onslaught. A highly concentrated economy increases the risk of a downturn and will leave many middle class Americans frustrated and strained. For months I had been referring to this as a frozen labor market with little hiring and little firing. A growing number of industries have transitioned from weak hiring to layoffs in the past three months. Manufacturing, professional and business services, mining, residential construction, warehouses K through 12, education, the federal government and even retailers have been cutting jobs. The labor market is going from frozen to cracking. Joining us now is Heather Long, chief economist at Navy Federal Credit Union and a contributing columnist at the Washington Post. Heather, you write and quoting you to you, the K shaped economy is back where there's a clear divergence between how the top and the bottom are faring. Heather, why is this happening?

[Gina Hinojosa]

Well, it's pretty simple what's going on. And basically folks who are in the top 20%. So we're talking people who are earning $170,000 or more. They often have investments in the stock market which are back at at all time highs. They often own a property or several properties and home values have been soaring. And they're not that worried about tariffs. They're not that worried about higher prices or losing their job. Meanwhile, the bottom 80% is back living paycheck to paycheck and they are very nervous about losing their jobs in this economy because as I was writing, it's a frozen labor market. It's very difficult to get a job outside of health care right now. And they are very nervous about having to face these tariffs, face these higher prices that are starting to increase. And it's only going to grow in the months to come. In the months ahead, we're Talking about potentially $2,000 more a year for the average household that is not something that a households that are already struggling to pay their credit card bills, pay their auto loans, pay their student loans. We've seen a huge spike in defaults on student loans. There's just not a lot of money left for the middle class right now.

[Jonathan Capehart]

Heather, do you think the frozen labor market is about Trump tariffs and trade policy? Is there a connection?

[Gina Hinojosa]

Yes, there definitely is. Like, there's three things that are going on in the labor market. The biggest one is the uncertainty. You can see this on the earnings calls we're listening to. You can see it in the data. Businesses, by and large, are not investing. They are not building new factories right now. They are not investing in new equipment and in new devices, and they are not hiring. The one exception to that is the AI boom. The handful of companies in big tech that are building these huge AI data centers. But if you look across the rest of the economy, things look very frozen, similar to the labor market business investment. You can understand. Why would somebody want to invest right now in a world where every day the rules change every day the tariff rate, you have to try to ask Google, what is the tariff rate today on which country?

[Jonathan Capehart]

Heather, real quickly, I want to squeeze this in. What do you think the biggest challenge to the economy is right now? Trump's policies, Widening inequality or AI Real fast? Because I'm breaking some rules here.

[Gina Hinojosa]

Wow. It's hard to pick. But the number one is the uncertainty and the tariffs, and that's really weighing on the middle class and on business. That needs to be sorted out. And ideally it would be revoked, but we at least need to know what the tariff rates are by the end of the summer.

[Jonathan Capehart]

Heather Long, thank you very much for coming back to the Last Word. And joining us now is former Democratic Congressman Connor Lamb of Pennsylvania. Congressman, you've been traveling your state and talking to voters. What's the economic mood on the ground in the Commonwealth?

[Rob Lowe]

I think the key word that Heather used there was uncertainty. People see the news about the tariffs. They definitely know that prices have not gone down in any meaningful way, even though Trump promised that they would right away. One thing you have to remember about Pennsylvania, it's a much older state than most places. So, you know, I'm talking to a huge amount of people that are just on a fixed income. And when prices go up on small things like retail things or big things like we're seeing going to see higher prices on health care and electricity definitely this year and next year, that stresses people out.

[Jonathan Capehart]

Listen to this from Senator Sanders today.

[Rob Lowe]

Our mission right now is not just taking on Trump, which we have got to do every day. The reason that Trump was elected is that he kept saying, you know, the system is broken. And he's right, the system is broken. But the problem is he is going to only make it worse.

[Jonathan Capehart]

Congressman, you flipped a deep red district in 2018. If Democrats want to win swing districts, what message do they need to get out today?

[Rob Lowe]

Yeah, I mean, I think the senator is definitely on the right track there. I think bringing it down to ground level, it's enough talk about prices and what are you going to actually do for us. And I always thought the biggest problem with Trump's attack on Biden was he would focus on grocery prices, which are important to people, but the government doesn't control. And that's why you're still seeing them go up. I mean, the government control them negatively, like Trump does with the tariffs. But an incoming Democratic majority should be talking about the things that, that we can affect, which are health care, education, electricity, things that are directly tied to actions that the government takes. And we can bring all those costs down for people. Trump is driving them up. I think that's where you want to be.

[Jonathan Capehart]

I want to see if you agree with something that Peggy Noonan wrote in the Wall Street Journal. This is about AI, and I'm quoting here. Political figures are aware it is coming, but unprepared for the scale and depth of disruption. They were taught unemployment policy has to do with cyclical and transitional employment, not systemic technological redundancy. You agree with that?

[Rob Lowe]

Yes. And I would go one further to say that in a community like ours, which has been so tied to manufacturing and construction type work for so long, I think people are being misled. Where the AI companies and, you know, their various kind of supporters are having these conferences and stuff where they talk about all the jobs that are going to go into building the data centers, which is great, and construction workers, you know, should get those jobs. But it's not leading us to a broad based middle class type economy. I mean, it's leading those data centers are there to automate other people's jobs. And so I think people are not only not being told what AI is going to do, they're almost being duped into thinking that it's a pathway to some, you know, factory or manufacturing resurgence here, when I just doubt that's the case.

[Jonathan Capehart]

Former Congressman Conor Lamb, thank you very much for coming to the Last Word. And coming up, last year, the Supreme Court told Donald Trump, in effect, that all presidential crimes are legal. What that has to do with a case the Supreme Court now says it will hear next term. That's next.

[Rob Lowe]

Hey everybody, it's Rob Lowe here. If you haven't heard, I have a podcast that's called Literally with Rob Lowe, and basically it's conversations I've had that really make you feel like you're pulling up a chair at an intimate dinner between myself and people that I admire, like Aaron Sorkin or Tiffany Haddish, Demi Moore, Chris Pratt, Michael J. Fox. There are new episodes out every Thursday, so subscribe, please and listen wherever you get your podcasts.

[Jonathan Capehart]

Cash flow crunch OnDeck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds up to $100,000 right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply [e-mail] funds could be available as soon as tomorrow, depending on certain loan attributes. Your business loan may be issued by Ondeck or Celtic Bank. Ondeck does not lend to North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval. Riley Herbst from 2311 Racing checking in.

[Gina Hinojosa]

Got a break in between team meetings?

[Jonathan Capehart]

Sounds like the perfect time for some fast paced fun at Chumba Casino. No waiting, just instant action to keep you going. So next time you need a pick me up, fire it up and take a spin. Play [e-mail] let's Chumba no purchase necessary. VGW Group voidware prohibited by law CTNC's 21+ sponsored by Jumba Casino There are different ways to rig an election. Trump's attempted coup in 2020 was one of them. This is another. Neither is compatible with multiracial democracy as we have known for the last 60 years. That was Pema Levy writing in Mother Jones about what she sees as the Supreme Court's moves to fully destroy the Voting Rights Act. The Roberts court agreed last week to hear a Louisiana redistricting case next term. The court also issued an order asking the lawyers to address whether, in seeking to comply with the 1965 law that protects minority voting rights, Louisiana violated the Constitution's 14th and 15th Amendments, enacted after the Civil War to ensure black people were treated equally under the law. In Shelby v. Holder In 2013, it was Chief Justice John Roberts who wrote the opinion that said essentially, America had evolved since 1965 and voter protections were not needed. Not for black or minority voters in any jurisdiction in the country. There are different ways to rig an election, and we should remember that by granting a president immunity from prosecution for official acts, it was John Roberts and his fellow conservatives in the high court's majority who told Donald Trump, charged with crimes for attempting to overturn the 2020 election, when your president will let you do it. Joining us now, Melissa Murray, professor of law at New York University and an MSNBC legal analyst. Melissa, we'll get to the specifics of the Louisiana case in a second. But what about this notion that this is all part of a piece of election rigging and there is a racial component? The 2020 election lie, which Donald Trump still tells Focus on Philadelphia and black election workers in Atlanta. What do you think?

[Jasmine Crockett]

So there's a through line in all of this and you're right to point it out. Essentially the line is any time that voters of color are represented or turn out insufficient numbers, then something amiss must be afoot. And again, the fact that in the 2020 election Donald Trump point places like Detroit, places like Philadelphia where there are sizable black populations than where there was massive voter turnout in those elections and pointed to those sites as sites of voter fraud is just indicative of this idea that anytime you see people of color voting, something must be up. And again, it's lending itself in many different ways, but it basically reveals the way in which this Republican Party recognizes that they have a real problem with voters. And so their real hope is to try and make elections Democratic so the voters cannot make their voices heard in the same ways they could before.

[Jonathan Capehart]

And so then what is at stake in the Louisiana case in the Supreme Court's next term?

[Jasmine Crockett]

So in order to understand what's at stake in this case, Louisiana v. Kelly, you need to go all the way back to 2013, when in that case that you earlier mentioned, Shelby county versus Holder, the Supreme Court under John Roberts in a 5 to 4 opinion held that the the pre clearance regime of the Voting Rights act was impermissible, the formula was impermissible. Pre clearance required states that had a history of voter suppression to first pre clear any changes to their voting policies with either the Department of Justice or a three judge court before those policies could be implemented. And as a result, it stopped a lot of suppressive voter policies before they could actually go into law. Chief Justice John Roberts, as you said, said that we had made racial progress, we'd elected a black president, there is massive turnout from black voters, therefore we no longer needed this pre clearance regime. But he said there was still a way to stop suppressive voter law. Section 2 of the Voting Rights act, which prevents states from having suppressive laws or using race discrimination to limit or dilute the power of voters of color. That's where the case that we're talking about, Louisiana versus Kelly, comes in. Louisiana has a one third population of black voters in the state. It's a massive population of black voters. But when the Louisiana legislature drew its district maps in 2022, it made only one of its six districts a majority minority district where black voters could have their elected officials actually elected and represent them in Congress and in the state legislature. This meant that the black voters sued. And when they sued, a court found that in fact it was an impermissible map, one that that basically packed all of the black voters into a single district when the state could have supported two majority minority districts. The court ordered the state of Louisiana to draw two minority, majority minority districts. And that prompted non voters of color, white voters, to challenge the new maps on the ground that they were racially discriminatory in violation of the 14th Amendment. And that's the case that Supreme Court was supposed to decide last term, but they held it over for this term and they recently announced a new set of questions that they're going to answer. And the big question is whether Section 2 of the Voting Rights act violates the Constitution when it allows states to consider race in drawing those district maps.

[Jonathan Capehart]

And with that new question, I think I know you're the lawyer here. I think we, I think we know what's coming.

[Jasmine Crockett]

Well, I mean, this is part of this court's interest in colorblind constitutionalism. Any use of race is per se unconstitutional, even when it's meant in a remedial way, as was the case in this case.

[Jonathan Capehart]

Melissa Murray, as always, thank you very much for coming to the Last Word. Tonight's last word is next. On this day in 1974, Richard Nixon resigned the presidency, the first and only president to do so under threat of impeachment and removal by Congressional Republicans. That ignominious end came 22 months after Nixon won 49 states in the 1972 election, more than any other presidential candidate in history. And it's not close. Nixon won 61% of the vote, the most of any Republican candidate in history, and certainly more than the 49.8% Donald Trump won in November. Nixon won the biggest victory by one metric in American presidential history and left office in disgrace 535 days later. And that is tonight's last word on Donald Trump's 200th day in office. And before we go, a reminder that you can join me again tomorrow at tomorrow on the weekend right here on msnbc. We'll be joined by House Foreign Affairs Committee ranking member Gregory Meeks on the breaking news that Trump and Putin will meet in Alaska next week. Also, along with Congressman Jamie Raskin and Hawaii Governor Josh Green will be getting up early, very early. Hawaii time to talk with us. That starts at 7:00am Eastern. I hope you'll join us. Hey, everybody. Conan O' Brien here with an ad about my podcast.

[Rob Lowe]

Conan O' Brien needs a friend.

[Jonathan Capehart]

I've had so many fantastic conversations with.

[Rob Lowe]

People I truly admire, people like Michelle Obama, Bruce Springsteen, Maya Rudolph, Tom Hanks. New episodes are out every Monday. And we have a really good time. So subscribe and listen wherever you get your podcasts.