Trump admin. facing MAGA backlash over Epstein case

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Last Word with Lawrence O’Donnell – "Trump Admin. Facing MAGA Backlash Over Epstein Case"

Release Date: July 12, 2025

Lawrence O’Donnell delves into the intricate and turbulent political landscape surrounding the Trump administration's handling of the Jeffrey Epstein case, internal conflicts within the MAGA movement, government policy cuts impacting disaster response, Trump's evolving relationship with cryptocurrency, and Netanyahu's political maneuvers amid the Gaza conflict. This comprehensive summary captures the episode's key discussions, insights, and conclusions, enriched with notable quotes and timestamps for clarity.

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1. MAGA Backlash Over the Epstein Case

The episode opens with a deep dive into the internal strife within the Trump administration, particularly focusing on former Deputy FBI Director Dan Bongino's clashes with Attorney General Pam Bondi over the handling of the Jeffrey Epstein files.

Dan Bongino's Resignation Threat: Dan Bongino, a prominent figure within the MAGA movement and a former right-wing podcaster, is reportedly considering resigning amid his frustration with the Justice Department's approach to the Epstein case. His confrontations with Pam Bondi have escalated tensions, leading to significant backlash within conservative circles.

[02:30] Dan Bongino: "Bongino is out of control, furious. This destroyed his career. He's threatening to quit and torch Pam Bondi unless she's fired."

Pam Bondi's Stance: Pam Bondi has maintained that the Epstein client list is under strict review, adhering to President Trump's directive. Her firm stance has only fueled conspiracy theories and dissatisfaction among MAGA supporters.

[03:30] Pam Bondi: "It's sitting on my desk right now to review."

Impact on MAGA Movement: Bongino, once a leading voice for MAGA conspiracy theories, now finds himself at odds with the very movement he helped propel. His potential departure signals a significant rift and raises questions about the future direction of the MAGA agenda.

[07:52] Ali Velshi: "Dan Bongino is getting a taste of how that feels now."

2. FEMA Cuts and Texas Flood Response

The discussion shifts to the Texas floods, highlighting how deep budget cuts have crippled FEMA's ability to respond effectively to natural disasters.

FEMA's Limited Response: In the wake of devastating floods in Texas, FEMA's response was sluggish, with only 86 personnel deployed three days after the disaster struck. This inefficiency is attributed to policy cuts that require Secretary Kristi Noem's personal approval for contracts over $100,000, a threshold deemed ineffective in disaster scenarios.

[11:00] Ali Velshi: "Only 86 FEMA personnel had been deployed by Monday night, three days after the floods began."

Congressional Concerns: Democratic leaders like Chuck Schumer have called for investigations into how fiscal policies have hampered FEMA's operations, emphasizing the risks posed by high vacancy rates in the National Weather Service.

[14:02] Robin Kelly: "What we haven't even begun to feel the effects of this big, bad, beautiful bill."

Policy Implications: The administration's Project 2025 plan, which includes substantial government cuts, is criticized for undermining essential services and jeopardizing public safety.

[18:24] Robin Kelly: "We are all connected and all in this together."

3. Trump's Engagement with Cryptocurrency

A significant portion of the episode examines Donald Trump's unexpected embrace of cryptocurrency, contrasting his previous skepticism with recent substantial investments.

Shift in Trump's Crypto Stance: Initially dismissive of Bitcoin, Trump has transformed his position, with Trump Media now investing heavily in cryptocurrencies and advocating for crypto-related financial products.

[22:38] Ali Velshi: "Donald Trump's got a lot of firsts to his name. He's the first US President to openly cash in on crypto."

Influence of Crypto Lobbying: Investigative reporter Ken Vogel reveals how cryptocurrency executives lobbied Trump, contributing millions in cryptocurrency to influence his policies and secure favorable treatment for the industry.

[25:35] Ken Vogel: "There is a benefit for these cryptocurrency executives and companies in getting behind Trump."

Policy Outcomes: Under Trump's influence, regulatory agencies have softened their stance on crypto, easing previous crackdowns and fostering an environment conducive to crypto growth.

[27:22] Ken Vogel: "This sort of comprehensive welcoming of an industry that not too long ago was really out of favor in Washington."

4. Netanyahu Prolonging Gaza War to Stay in Power

The episode also explores the parallels between Trump's political tactics and Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's strategies to maintain power amid ongoing conflicts.

Netanyahu's Political Maneuvers: A New York Times report, discussed by journalist Noga Tarnopolski, outlines how Netanyahu has extended the Gaza war to bolster his political standing and distract from his corruption trials. By aligning with extremist factions and delaying peace efforts, Netanyahu ensures continued support from key political allies.

[37:54] Noga Tarnopolski: "Netanyahu left D.C. without any truce between Israel and Hamas after 21 months of war."

Comparisons with Trump: Similar to Trump's handling of internal administration conflicts and public messaging, Netanyahu uses national crises to consolidate power and undermine judicial processes.

[44:39] Ali Velshi: "There are lots of similarities between what's going on with Netanyahu in Israel and what's going on with Trump in America."

Public Perception and Future Implications: Despite low public approval, Netanyahu persists in his authoritarian approach, mirroring Trump's disregard for institutional checks and public accountability.

[47:16] Ali Velshi: "It's easy for him to be in what classically is called contempt of court."

5. Government Accountability and Leadership Challenges

Throughout the episode, Lawrence O’Donnell emphasizes the broader implications of these scandals on government accountability and effective leadership.

Leadership Gaps: The lack of coordination and clarity within the Trump administration raises concerns about the effectiveness of the highest levels of government, especially in critical situations like international conflicts and natural disasters.

[34:35] Dan Bongino: "The president's last. No, the commander in chief is the last to know. And it is frankly dangerous to this country."

Future Consequences: Policy cuts and internal conflicts are predicted to have long-term negative effects on public services, healthcare, and national security, underscoring the urgent need for reevaluating current governmental strategies.

[19:20] Robin Kelly: "People will die."

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Conclusion

In this episode of The Last Word with Lawrence O’Donnell, listeners are presented with a multifaceted analysis of ongoing political scandals and their ramifications. From internal disputes within the Trump administration and the detrimental effects of government budget cuts on disaster response, to Trump's unexpected foray into cryptocurrency and Netanyahu's manipulative political tactics amid war, the discussions underscore a pressing need for accountability and effective leadership in contemporary politics.

Transcript

[Ali Velshi]

When work gets crazy, I like to.

[Dan Bongino]

Stop by the bar after, have a few cold ones.

[Brandi Zadrozny]

I don't drink at all until 4 o'.

[Ali Velshi]

Clock.

[Pam Bondi]

We limit ourselves to one bottle of wine a night.

[Dan Bongino]

Excessive drinking has a way of sneaking up on us. A few drinks a few nights a week, it can add up and suddenly.

[Ali Velshi]

We'Re at greater risk for long term.

[Dan Bongino]

Problems like heart disease, cancer and depression. Reason enough to rethink the drink. More [e-mail] Noha Initiative the McDonald's Snack Wrap is back.

[Ali Velshi]

You brought it back. Ranch snack wrap, Spicy snack wrap. You broke the Internet for a snack? Snack wrap is back.

[Ally Velshi]

The last word with Ally Vilshi starts right now.

[Ali Velshi]

Hey Ally, I don't know if we have it planned because we're going to be talking about this Epstein stuff, but those video clips you ran at the top were quite something. The guys with the little foil hats.

[Brandi Zadrozny]

Not even seeing the irony.

[Ally Velshi]

The guy who felt he was emotional because of his integrity, you just can't make it up.

[Ali Velshi]

You cannot make that up. I the things that you and I end up talking about on the news that I absolutely would have bet lots of money against ever having to discuss, continue to, I continue to be on the losing side of these bets. But thank you for your great reporting and get some rest this weekend. Thank you, Ellie.

[Ally Velshi]

You too.

[Ali Velshi]

Thanks, Jen. Well, there's a scandal in the Trump government tonight. As you know, it may not be exactly the scandal you'd expect because tonight it's coming from conspiracists within MAGA world who are outraged about the Jeffrey Epstein files. Deputy FBI Director Dan Bongino, the man on the right, a man on the left, a former right wing podcaster with no law enforcement experience, is now considering resigning after a heated confrontation at the White House with the Attorney General on the right, Pam Bondi, over his frustration with how the Justice Department has handled the Jeffrey Epstein files. The New York Times reports that a meeting on Wednesday, quote, at a meeting On Wednesday, quote, Ms. Bondi and her allies believe that Mr. Bongino planted stories in the conservative news blaming Ms. Bondi for the backlash. After an announcement earlier this week that the Epstein case would be closed, it escalated into an angry face to face confrontation when an irate Ms. Bondi accused Mr. Bongino of leaking information to the news media. Mr. Bongino, during another confrontation within this past week, told Ms. Bondi she had overhyped the likelihood that a review of the case undertaken by the Justice Department and FBI this year would reveal a list of Mr. Epstein's sex trafficking clients and possibly raise questions about his 2019 death by hanging in custody, which was ruled a suicide, end quote. One source told NBC News, quote, bongino is out of control, furious. This destroyed his career. He's threatening to quit and torch Pam Bondi unless she's fired, end quote. Now this is an interesting story. Dan Bongino is one of the people who helped fuel the conspiracy theories about the Epstein case and Pan. Bondi even told Fox in February that she had Jeffrey Epstein's client list on her desk. The DOJ may be releasing the list of Jeffrey Epstein's clients. Will that really happen?

[Brandi Zadrozny]

It's sitting on my desk right now to review.

[Ali Velshi]

That's been a directive by President Trump. I'm reviewing that. She wasn't hedging there. She was saying, it's sitting on my desk right now for review. But now that they're in government, these same people are telling MAGA world that there's nothing to see here. There's no client list. It was on Pambondi's desk and now it apparently doesn't exist. Epstein died by suicide. Case closed. MAGA people who were primed to expect an earth shaking exposure of elite wrongdoing are not happy. Pam Bondi needs to be fired. Who is rolling this out? The little rascals. This stinks. This, this just reeks. How can you say that thousands of children were raped, but I'm not gonna find out who raped them? Yeah, how can you say that? I agree. I agree. They said that.

[Ally Velshi]

Is she stupid? Is she so click thirsty that she got out over her skis trying to make news being a Fox News star? It's either that or she's a liar.

[Ali Velshi]

I'm physically gonna puke probably right now. My mouth is watering right now. For them to do something like this.

[Pam Bondi]

Tears my guts up.

[Ali Velshi]

Further fueling speculation about the Epstein case is new reporting about the video that was released showing outside Epstein's prison cell the the night he died. Metadata embedded in the video and analyzed by Wired and by independent video forensics experts shows that rather than being a direct export from the prison surveillance system, that footage was modified, likely using the professional editing tool Adobe Premiere Pro. The file appears to have been assembled from at least two different source clips, saved multiple times, exported, and then uploaded to the DOJ's website where it was presented and as raw footage. Wired notes, however, that there's no evidence that the footage was deceptively, deceptively manipulated. But none of this is going to help convince conspiracy theorists that the case is closed. We even got to see the outrage in real time tonight when Fox's Laura Ingraham asked the audience at Turning Point usa, a conservative student organization, whether they felt satisfied by the Trump administration's investigation into the Epstein files. How many of you are satisfied? You can clap. Satisfied with the results of the Epstein investigation? Clap. Okay, I told you to clap. You guys aren't listening. I'm not going to grade you on a curve.

[Brandi Zadrozny]

So I was going to get to that.

[Ali Velshi]

How many of you are not satisfied with the results of the investigation? So much to unpack here. Joining me now, Brandi Zadrozny, my good friend and an MSNBC senior enterprise reporter. I don't know where to start, but maybe an important starting point is that Dan Bongino, who didn't show up for work today and is reportedly considering resigning and torching Pam Bondi on the way down. Dan Bongino is source material for this conspiracy theory. He dined out on this for a long time, 100%.

[Ally Velshi]

He had a podcast. It was rated very highly among the MAGA folk. They loved him. He hawked supplements and survival kits and in between, he hawked conspiracy theories. And Epstein was one of his favorites. He said someone needed to get down to the bottom of things like the 2020 election, but also the Epstein files. Who was on that client list? He had heard stories from his secret sources that there were bad people on that list. Politicians, important businessmen, and he knew all about it. Podcast like, I know who's on that list and it's not good. So then he was made assistant or deputy director of the FBI. And he had a chance to find out who that was and tell the public like he said he was going to for so, so long. And so, you know, going into that, that's, that's a really important context for why the MAGA faithful are so hungry, because one of the largest bullhorns for the movement was one of them. He's in there and then he, you know, helps release this two page thing that says, actually, no, it's fine, nothing to see here.

[Ali Velshi]

It's interesting, the energy's all going toward Pam Bondi right now. But Cash Patel, the director of the FBI, Dan Bongino, the deputy director, they've all been on TV saying, I've seen all the evidence. It seems like he committed suicide, 100%.

[Ally Velshi]

I mean, they're yelling at Pam Bondi and not just Bongino and Cash Patel, reportedly behind the scenes. But the whole MAGA movement is all screaming about Pam Bondi, they want her gone, but the only thing that she did was get a little over her skis, maybe. She promised one thing, and then everybody released this thing again. Bongino has been talking about this for years on his show. So it's kind of a hard thing to circle or square, however you wanna say it, but it's really inconsistent. It seems a little bit unfair.

[Ali Velshi]

There are two things going on here. One is, did Jeffrey Epstein commit suicide? And the other one is, is there a client list? The energy seems to have moved the client list, because it seems to be. And everybody's gonna look at this video, but it seems to be likely that he died by suicide.

[Ally Velshi]

Yeah, I mean, all evidence points to he died by suicide. We've seen no evidence that points to any other conclusion. And I think there's one more question to add to your roster that the MAGA people really, really care about, because I'll tell you something. MAGA people don't actually care about Epstein's victims. You don't hear a lot of that talk. What you hear a lot of talk about is how is the Epstein case being used to control and blackmail some mystery list of politicians and business people like Bill Gates and all of these other people who've for a long time, been at the center of these conspiracy theories. And so that is the main question that they've sought to answer. And it really does behoove us to say. There was a Department of justice investigation into the sweetheart deal for Epstein in 2020, and even they said there is no evidence that he was an intelligence asset or was used in any other way. It just seems like kind of a bad deal that Acosta made. And so, you know, I feel for Dan Bongino and I feel for Kash Patel, because they spent years building up these conspiracy theories, and now they're in a position to look under the hood, and they didn't find anything. And, you know, we've covered this for so many years Ali election officials, Covid nurses, you name it. Politicians, business people who are at the center of these conspiracy theories. It feels really, really bad. And Dan Bongino is getting a taste of how that feels now.

[Ali Velshi]

Yeah, he said several times he doesn't like his job. He wants to go back. He had a good gig, as you said, as a podcaster, because you can say these things, and there's no accountability. And now you have the actual information as Deputy Director of the FBI. Tough going all around. Brandi, good to see you. I'm gonna see you again on Sunday, I believe you and I are chatting again. So thank you, Brandy Zadrowski. All right. There's another scandal in government tonight and it's not set off a firestorm on social media, doesn't have a central villain like Jeffrey Epstein. The main character in this scandal, though, is Elon Musk. He's left government, but his so called chainsaw continues to cut. This is a slow moving, quiet scandal about how blunt cuts to the federal government are having an impact on what the government is able to provide its people and how cuts being made right now are going to hurt people for years into the future. Let's just look at Texas right now. In Texas, at least 129 people, including dozens of children, have been killed in flooding in a part of Texas that's known as Flash Flood Alley. Many more remain unaccounted for. And tonight there are serious unanswered questions about the policies of the Trump administration. Congressman Jared Moskowitz, a former Florida director of emergency Management, Florida director of emergency management, asks for a congressional investigation because, quote, in a crisis like this, it's FEMA's responsibility to move swiftly, anticipate needs, pre position resources and launch rescue efforts without delay. That did not happen here. Instead, a new cost control policy required Secretary Noem's personal approval for any FEMA contract or grant over $100,000. In the context of disaster operations, this threshold is almost meaningless. As a result, this policy stripped FEMA of its ability to act in real time and delayed every major aspect of the response. According to these same reports, only 86 FEMA personnel had been deployed by Monday night, three days after the floods began. Even Mexican volunteer first responders from Ciudad Acuna crossed into Kerr county to support search and rescue operations before our own federal capacity was fully mobilized, end quote. The Democratic leader, Chuck Schumer, has asked an inspector general to look into how Doge cuts into the federal workforce had an impact on the National Weather Service in Texas. Senator Schumer also wants to know, quote, what's the current vacancy rate across National Weather Service forecasting offices nationwide? And what risks do these vacancies pose to public safety? The New York Times has this new reporting tonight. Two days after catastrophic floods roared through Central Texas, the Federal Emergency Management Agency did not answer nearly two thirds of calls to its disaster assistance line, according to documents reviewed by the New York Times. The lack of responsiveness happened because the agency had fired hundreds of contractors at call centers, according to a person briefed on the matter, who spoke on the condition of anonymity in order to discuss internal matters the agency laid off the contractors on July 5 after their contracts expired and were not extended, according to the documents. And the person briefed on the matter, Kristi Noem, the Homeland Security secretary who's instituted a new requirement that she personally approve expenses over $100,000 and did not renew the contracts until Thursday, five days after they expired. Today, Donald Trump went to Texas for about four and a half hours where he was asked about this response.

[Ally Velshi]

Several families we've heard from are obviously upset because they say that those warnings, those alerts didn't go out in time. And they also say that people could have been safe.

[Robin Kelly]

What do you say to those families?

[Pam Bondi]

Well, I think everyone did an incredible job under the circumstances. This was, I guess Christie said, a one in five hundred, one in a thousand years. And I just have admiration for the job that everybody did. There was just admiration. The only bad person would ask a question like that, to be honest with you. I don't know who you are, but only a very evil person would ask a question like that.

[Ali Velshi]

It's gotta always add that thing at the end. Only an evil person would ask a question on behalf of several families who are grieving. That's Donald Trump's view. How dare they. It didn't end there.

[Pam Bondi]

It's easy to sit back and say, oh, what could have happened here, there? You know, maybe we could have done something differently. This was a thing that has never happened before and nobody's ever seen anything. I've never seen anything like this never happened before.

[Ali Velshi]

Nobody's ever seen anything like it. I've never seen anything like this. It's a once in 500 year flood. Once in a thousand year flood. It always says this stuff. It's not true. And it's certainly not easy for the survivors of any disaster to wonder if something could have been done differently. I'm sure that's actually the worst thing in the world. Survivors of people who died in the flood will be haunted by that question probably for the rest of their lives. Could something have been done differently? Could something have been done better? Could the response have been faster? Could we have foreseen this disaster before this disaster? Donald Trump said he wanted to get rid of fema, the Washington Post reports today, Quote, a senior White House official told the Washington Post that no official action is being taken to wind down FEMA and that changes in the agency will probably amount to a rebranding that will emphasize state leaders roles in disaster response, end quote. Oh, so Trump discovered what FEMA does. I guess it was easy to sit back and stoke conspiracy theories about federal fraud and abuse when it helped you get elected. So, yes, there's another scandal in government tonight. The Project 2025 plan to drastically cut government is underway. Elon Musk is gone, but the Senate is right now debating codifying those dodge cuts into a $9 billion package after passing a $3.4 trillion tax cut bill that included the largest cuts to the American social safety net in modern history and the largest upward transfer of wealth. We haven't even begun to feel the effects of this big, bad, beautiful bill. The 17 million people whom the CBO estimates will in some way or other lose their health care coverage tonight, they still have it. Will people connect the pain that's going to come to the policy cuts of 2025? Joining us now is the Democratic Representative, Robin Kelly of Illinois. She's a member of the Energy and Commerce Committee and co chair of the Steering and Policy Committee. Congresswoman, good to see you. Thank you for joining us tonight.

[Robin Kelly]

Good to see you.

[Ali Velshi]

There seems to be in the Trump world, when he's not in power, a great deal of blame to go around for everything that goes wrong. And when he is in power, hey, stuff just happens. It's just a flood. Everyone tried their best. Only evil people would ask what went wrong.

[Robin Kelly]

You know, that says, as you pointed out, that's his, his go to, you know, blaming everybody else, not taking responsibility. But when he's not in charge, he blames, you know, everybody. But when he is in charge, everybody did a fantastic job. And just listening to the show tonight, it makes you wonder about people that he has representing his administration is very scary.

[Ali Velshi]

Yeah. I mean, they got, they got a bunch of SCAND going on within that whole situation. But this is one of those ones that you wonder about. When government works, you don't know it works. Right. People don't get involved in the operations of fema. You just want FEMA to show up when bad things happen. And this is the problem with these DOGE cuts and it's the problem with the one big beautiful bill act in that they've gone and gutted things that people didn't really necessarily know. The effect they had, obviously, with Medicaid and snap, people know and they're going to feel it. But at some point, our government's gonna look and feel, feel a lot different in two years and four years than it does right now.

[Robin Kelly]

Definitely. And people are already complaining, complaining about long wait lines, people not answering the phones. We're already hearing about hospitals that are going to close. So we're hearing about things already. But you're right. People haven't been, they haven't felt all of the effects. Even with snap, if you can't buy food, then you're not going to go to the grocery store as often. And, and then the, whatever grocery store you go to, they're not going to buy from the farmers. We are all connected and all in this together.

[Ali Velshi]

Yes. And if you're on Medicaid, I've been trying to figure this out the entire time that this bill's been going through. I'm not sure how you scam it. I'm not sure how you scam Medicare, Medicaid. I'm certainly not sure how you scam snap, because it's a few bucks a day for food. Right. If you need food assistance, what do you, what are you reselling your snap? I mean, why have we figured out that that's where the scams are?

[Robin Kelly]

Well, I mean, they're blaming waste, fraud and abuse for everything. No one wants waste, fraud and abuse. But I mean, it is greatly exaggerated, you know, that what they are doing is so horrible and evil and immoral and people will die. People will die.

[Ali Velshi]

There are estimates of maybe 50,000 people in the first year alone. You were at a town hall last night with Hakeem Jeffries talking to people. It was in Louisiana, I believe. What were you hearing from? From folks.

[Robin Kelly]

People were, you know, afraid, frustrated, had questions. People talked about already getting letters from their health insurance. They wondered what they would do. 33 rural hospitals may close in Louisiana. So where will people go? You know, they, the federally qualified health care centers. If they can't use their Medicaid, where will people and what we're afraid of, that people wait and wait and wait until they really get sick and then they'll go to the emergency room, which will cost more money.

[Ali Velshi]

Yes.

[Robin Kelly]

And it'll cost everybody money.

[Ali Velshi]

This is one of those reasons why our healthcare costs per capita are so much higher than every other developed country in the world, because we don't, because people don't go to a doctor and then they have to get treated in emergency rooms when they're much sicker than they might have been. Congresswoman, thank you for being with us. Representative Robin Kelly of Illinois, appreciate your time tonight. Coming up, we've never seen anyone cash in on a presidency like Donald Trump, and sometimes he's not actually using cash to do it. We're going to explain the strange relationship between this president and the world of crypto when we come back.

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[Brandi Zadrozny]

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[Robin Kelly]

Um, that's a hard question.

[Ken Vogel]

Something that you can strive for.

[Ali Velshi]

I'm able to do anything I set my mind to.

[Brandi Zadrozny]

You're confident in yourself and you believe in yourself. Stuff that you could achieve.

[Ally Velshi]

I feel it's Sarah Anything is possible.

[Ali Velshi]

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[Ali Velshi]

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[Ali Velshi]

Donald Trump's got a lot of firsts to his name. He's the first US President to openly cash in on crypto. The New York Times reports, quote, in just the past few months, Trump Media has raised two and a half billion dollars in cash to invest in bitcoin and is working to bring crypto related Exchange traded funds or ETFs, to market. Mr. Trump has no official position at Trump Media and does not advise it on corporate policy. But he is the company's largest shareholder and he and his family have become big crypto boosters over the past year. End quote. Donald Trump's views on cryptocurrencies have not always been so favorable. Bitcoin, it just seems like a scam. I don't like it because it's another currency competing against the dollar. Essentially it's a currency.

[Pam Bondi]

It's a very funny thing, crypto. So I became a fan of crypto and to me it's an industry. I view it as an industry and I'm president.

[Ali Velshi]

Why did Donald trump make a complete 180 on crypto my next guest, Ken Vogel, co authored a report for the New York Times titled the Trump How Crypto Lobbying Won Over a President, end quote. In the report, Vogel details a key meeting between then candidate Trump David Bailey, who runs a digital currency firm, and some other cryptocurrency bosses. Quote, just over a year ago, while sitting around a table in an ornate meeting room at Mar a Lago, David Bailey and a group of top bitcoin executives made a pitch to Donald Trump. They were looking for a savior. For years, cryptocurrency companies had endured a sweeping crackdown in Washington, a cascade of lawsuits, regulatory attacks, and prosecutions that threatened the industry's very survival. The crypto industry needed the next president to do more than simply take its money. Top executives were in the market for a political champion, end quote. The Times reports that the crypto bosses started a courtship of Donald Trump that included dumping millions of dollars of cryptocurrency into his campaign coffers. Trump was convinced to be a keynote speaker at the annual bitcoin conference in Nashville last July and to push policy to back policy being championed by the crypto world. As Ken Vogel reports, in front of thousands of cheering supporters in Nashville, he promised to create a strategic national bitcoin stockpile. I will be the pro innovation and pro bitcoin president that America needs, Mr. Trump declared. Didn't know America needed a pro bitcoin president. Joining us now is New York Times reporter Ken Vogel. Ken, good to see you. Thank you for being with us.

[Ken Vogel]

Great to be with you.

[Ali Velshi]

Ali. Is this anything more than transactional? A bunch of guys with a lot of money said, we need a champion, which is, I suppose, the coded word that everybody. Coded phrase everybody use. Right? I'm sure the energy industry needs a champion. Industry needs a champion. And say, hey, we got money for you. We'd like you to do some of our bidding.

[Ken Vogel]

Well, to view it charitably and to sort of take the line that the various bitcoin and cryptocurrency executives took when they were pitching Trump. You know, they made a case that this was the future of finance. He obviously was not receptive to that case initially, as you showed from the earlier clips of him saying that bitcoin was a scam. But what they were able to show him was, was two things that were. Are quite appealing to him. Number one, that this could result. This. This shift in position and this casting of himself as a champion of cryptocurrency could result in a huge sort of wave of cash, both actual cash and cryptocurrency into his campaign and his political group, super pacs, his inauguration etc. And number two, that the family itself could be, could become quite wealthy if they were to expand their enterprises to include cryptocurrency. And if you look at on a financial disclosure statement that he filed last month, that shows that crypto was in fact among the most profitable assets and the most profitable enterprises in there in the Trump organization's portfolio in 2024, really the first year that they were at all invested in. And since then they really just expanded their holdings in the space.

[Ali Velshi]

So he said he's going to be the bitcoin president that America needs again. And I'm not an expert on crypto or bitcoin, so I don't know that we needed a crypto president, but he did bring in a crypto, so called crypto czar. Now usually when you bring in a czar of something, it's to, it's to fix something. This feels like sort of the anti regulation. It feels like someone who's there to grease the skids for more crypto stuff, be that good or bad.

[Ken Vogel]

Yeah, and we've seen results already. And it's not just from the crypto czarn from the White House. It's from the regulatory agencies that under former President Biden and even under Trump during his first presidency, engage in a real aggressive clampdown on cryptocurrency as an unregulated security. We saw a ton of investigations into some of the leading exchanges and investors. And under Trump, we've seen some of those same exchanges and companies and investors who had given a lot of money to his campaign suddenly see the investigations fall away. And so, you know, it's, it doesn't take a whole lot of, you know, of reasoning and following the money to see that like there, there is a benefit for these crypto currency executives and companies in getting behind Trump. And it's even more than that. It's not just like a system wide, you know, deregulation or rollback of, of an aggressive clampdown. It's also sort of favoring individual companies and giving them access to the White House and to the White House cryptocurrency summit that they had and like the cryptocurrency company sponsored the White House Easter Egg Roll. So we really see it in a rather comprehensive way, this sort of welcoming of an industry that not too long ago was really out of favor in Washington.

[Ali Velshi]

Even that Army Parade had some sponsorship related to a crypto related company. Ken, good to see you as Always. Thank you for joining us. Ken Vogel is a reporter with the New York Times. When the federal government did something under President Harry Truman, Truman always said the buck stops here. Under Donald Trump, it's not entirely clear who's in charge where the buck stops, particularly as it relates to foreign policy, which could have life or death consequences. I'm going to have that conversation next with Congressman Eugene Vindman, who's in charge here in the United States? It's a question we ask ourselves daily about our federal government. The answer can be given, can be a different answer on any given day, or no answer, because sometimes we don't have a clue as to who's in charge because the man with the title of President of the United States seems to sometimes have no clue as to who's in charge. Let's take, I'm not throwing out broad generalities here. I'm going to take a very specific example of the question of who's in charge, which played out this week. Last night, in an interview with my colleague Kristen Welker, Donald Trump claimed he would be sending Patriot missiles to NATO to distribute to Ukraine. And of course, Donald Trump claimed NATO would be paying for those missiles 100%. This is a complete turnaround to what we knew or thought we knew about the distribution of US Missiles to Ukraine. Earlier this week, reports indicated that the Pentagon had paused all weapons shipments to Ukraine. On Tuesday, Donald Trump was asked an important question about the pause, and as the supposed man in charge, he probably should have had an answer. Instead, Donald Trump said to a reporter, I don't know. Why don't you tell me? Don't take my word for it.

[Ally Velshi]

Watch for yourself, Mr. President, what happens to Ukraine? As you said last night, last week.

[Ali Velshi]

The Pentagon paused some shipments of weapons to Ukraine. Did you approve of that?

[Pam Bondi]

We want to put defensive weapons because Putin is not, he's not treating human beings right. He's killing too many people. So we're sending some defensive weapons to Ukraine, and I've approved that.

[Brandi Zadrozny]

So who ordered a pause last week?

[Pam Bondi]

I don't know. Why don't you tell me?

[Ali Velshi]

I don't know. Why don't you tell me? These are expensive missiles. These are Patriots. They're, they intercept incoming missiles. They're the most sophisticated missile interceptors in the world. If you're in charge of that, you shouldn't need to ask a reporter. Why don't you tell me who stopped those interceptors from going to Ukraine? Just hours after this exchange, reports emerged that the decision to authorize the weapons pause came from this man, the Defense Secretary, Pete Hegseth. So apparently Pete Hegseth is in charge. Pete Hegseth, whom Senator Thom Tillis says is out of his depth. With the passing of time, I think it's clear he's out of his depth as a manager of a large, complex organization. Okay, so you'll recall that Senator Thom Tillis, a Republican, was the deciding vote for Pete Hegseth. He announced he was a yes for Pete Hegseth while the vote was underway, which then cleared the path for JD Vance to help Hegseth squeak through confirmation, which has never, ever before happened for a Defense Secretary. But wait a second. On Wednesday, Donald Trump said. It's Donald Trump who's in charge. Sir, yesterday you said that you were.

[Dan Bongino]

Not sure who ordered the munitions halted to Ukraine. Have you since been able to figure that out?

[Pam Bondi]

Well, I haven't thought about it because we're looking at Ukraine right now and munitions. But I have. No, I have not gone into it.

[Ali Velshi]

What does it say that such a.

[Dan Bongino]

Big decision could be made inside your.

[Ali Velshi]

Government without you knowing?

[Pam Bondi]

I would know. If a decision was made, I will know. I'll be the first to know. In fact, most likely I'd give the order, but I haven't done that yet. Yeah, please.

[Ali Velshi]

I would know. Most likely I'd give the order, but I haven't done that yet. Okay. Joining us now, Democratic Congressman Eugene Vindman of Virginia, a member of the House Armed Services Committee. I don't know anything, Colonel, about. About weapons procurement and how these things go and who's supposed to authorize it and all that kind of stuff, but that screams confusing to me that nobody really could identify why something so central to this war. This isn't a small matter. By the way, the Patriot missile is going to Ukraine. This is a major part of their air defenses.

[Dan Bongino]

Absolutely, Ali, and great to be on with you again. Look, apparently the President is the last to know, not the first to know, and the buck clearly does not stop with him. You know, Secretary Hexith obviously halted weapons shipments last week, which is why I drafted a letter co signed by 54 other members of the House of Representatives, including Republicans, to immediately restart that. That looks like it's taking place now, but the whole endeavor taking place in the first place. And the Commander in Chief sounds like he was completely out of the loop on the transfer of a billion dollar weapon system with each missile being a million dollar interceptor.

[Ali Velshi]

Let's just talk about that for a second. This is not a normal course of events. There are countries that receive military assistance from the United States. But it's a little bit more routine. This is a hot war. This is an active situation in which something as critical as Patriot missiles. I mean, is that in the purview of the Defense secretary to simply make a decision to not send congressionally approved aid? Because I didn't think so.

[Dan Bongino]

It ought not to be. In any other previous administration, including the first Trump administration, that was not the case, frankly. That was a decision coordinated through the National Security Council. After an interagency process, it looks like there's a complete absence of the National Security Council. There is no coordination. Each agency and department is doing whatever they want to do. The president's last. No, the commander in chief is the last to know. And it is frankly dangerous to this country.

[Ali Velshi]

Thom Tillis had taken a view that he was not going to support Pete Hegseth. There were a few other US Senators who had taken that view. Thom Tillis, who now is not going to run again because he was threatened by Donald Trump with a primary, says he wouldn't vote for Hegseth today, knowing what he knows, but knowing what he knew then, he still would have cast the same vote. Which strikes me as strange, because when Thom Tillis cast that vote to approve Pete Hegseth, you and I and the rest of America had a lot of information about Pete Hegseth.

[Dan Bongino]

Absolutely. I mean, least competent, least capable, least experienced secretary of defense in this country's history. Frankly, that's a characteristic of the entire cabinet. And Thom Tillis knew at that time that he was completely unqualified for this job. He knows it now. All of a sudden, now that he's not running again, he is apparently grown a spine.

[Ali Velshi]

Donald Trump said on Tuesday, in the midst of all of this confusion, he said he's not happy with Putin. He says, we're not happy with Putin. I'm not happy with Putin. I can tell you that much right now because he's killing a lot of people. A lot of them are his soldiers. His soldiers and their soldiers. Mostly we get a lot of BS thrown at us by Putin. He said the whole word, not BS for, you know, you wanna know the truth? He's very nice all the time, but it turns out meaningless. Yet another piece of information. The rest of us non professionals knew about Vladimir Putin for a long time.

[Dan Bongino]

Well, you know, the level of ignorance across this entire administration is really staggering. Everybody that has spent any time in foreign policy, geopolitics, I mean, Russia is not a good actor. It's a profoundly destabilizing force around the world around the region. They've engaged in an aggressive war against Ukraine for really since 2014, but since 2022 and sort of an all out offensive. This administration, this president learns extremely painfully slowly. We're seeing that almost play out in real time and it's about time that they start to make the right decisions. I think we're seeing some of that now with these weapons transfers, whether directly through NATO or to ukra, Ukraine and sanctions. But it's extremely painful and it comes at the cost of human lives.

[Ali Velshi]

Yeah, yeah, a lot of them in the last several weeks. Congressman, good to see you. Thank you for joining us. Congressman Eugene vindman, retired colonel, U.S. army. Coming up, the stunning new report in the New York Times how Netanyahu prolonged the war in Gaza to stay in power. And it notes that staying in power has had political and personal benefits for Netanyahu, who's in the middle of a criminal trial which Donald Trump has claimed is a witch hunt. That's next.

[Noga Tarnopolski]

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[Robin Kelly]

Possibility means you have a chance.

[Ken Vogel]

Passion opens the door to all possibilities.

[Ali Velshi]

When I feel like anything's possible, I feel kind of giddy.

[Robin Kelly]

I want to be an astronaut, be.

[Brandi Zadrozny]

An artist, an actress.

[Ali Velshi]

To visit another country.

[Ken Vogel]

All I need is a backpack and a pair of shoes and I'll find.

[Ali Velshi]

A way I'm able to do anything I set my mind to. I've never felt like more things are.

[Ken Vogel]

Possible than right now.

[Robin Kelly]

In the right shoes, anything's possible.

[Ali Velshi]

Dsw, countless shoes at bragworthy prices.

[Eugene Vindman]

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[Ali Velshi]

At least 15 people are dead after an Israeli military strike near a medical center in central Gaza yesterday. A UN spokeswoman says nearly 800 people have been killed since late May while trying to access aid. Quote, people being shot at distribution sites, scores of women and children and men and boys and girls being killed while either getting food or in what's supposedly safe shelters or on the road to health clinics or inside health clinics. This is far beyond acceptable, end quote. Donald Trump and White House envoy Steve Witkoff held talks with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu in Washington this week. But Netanyahu left D.C. without any truce between Israel and Hamas after 21 months of war. Today, a new detailed report from the New York Times lays bare how Netanyahu may be using Israel's prolonged war in Gaza not just as a political shield, but as a legal one. The Times reports, quote, as the conflict turned from an existential battle into a war of attrition and as other Israeli leaders questioned the logic behind its continuation, it was Netanyahu who dragged it out. It was Netanyahu who refused to plan for a post war power transfer. It was Netanyahu who repeatedly delayed reaching a ceasefire. Fearing for his own political survival, Netanyahu hitched his fate to the dreams of Israeli extremists and prolonged the war to sustain their support. Since 2020, he had been standing trial for corruption. The charges, which he denied, mostly related to granting favors to businessmen in exchange for gifts and favorable media coverage. Shorn of power, Netanyahu would lose the ability to force out the Attorney General who oversaw his prosecution, as indeed his government would later attempt to do as such. For Netanyahu, the immediate rewards have been rich. He has amassed more control over the Israeli state than at any other point in his 18 year tenure as Prime Minister. He has successfully prevented a state inquiry that would investigate his own culpability, saying that the fallout must wait until the Gaza war ends. Even as the Defense Minister, the army chief, the domestic spymaster, and several other top generals, all either have been fired or have resigned. As he attends court up to three times a week for his corruption trial, his government is now moving to fire the Attorney General who oversees that prosecution. The war's continuation has shored up his coalition. It gave him time to plan and enact his attack on Iran. Above all, as even his strongest supporters note, it kept him in office, end quote. Joining us now from Jerusalem is the journalist Noga Tarnopolski. She spent over two decades covering the Israeli Palestinian conflict. Noga, thank you for being with us. You know, this seems like an installment in a long story, but I think it's worth just revisiting this for a second. Benjamin Netanyahu is a guy who has been embattled for a long time. And every few months it looks like he's hanging on to power by, by his fingernails. And then he comes roaring back. Where is he in this whole situation right now? And how much does continuing the war in Gaza save him from prosecution?

[Brandi Zadrozny]

Hi, Ali. Well, where is he in that fingernail analogy is a very interesting question because there have been a lot of there's been a lot of tension in the last month, Netanyahu embarked on the war with Iran, among other things. Among other things, supposing that this is what would restore him to glory. And if you were here in Israel during those 12 days of war, it was fascinating to see how parallel to actual legitimate war targets in Iran, how parallel to pretty legitimate diplomatic contacts he was holding with allied nations and certainly allied in the fight against Iran. He completely transformed his public Persona. He began appearing in public. At least people could see him in public more than once a day. He began touring sites of buildings that had been wrecked by Iranian missiles. He was on a campaign. And Netanyahu made several bets in those 12 days out of this now 640 days of the Gaza war. And one bet is that this successful operation was going to restore his glory. And that one bet absolutely has failed. So what we're seeing in the polls, and again last night, just a few hours ago, Ali, is that he is still very much holding on by his fingernails. He's an extremely unpopular prime minister. His policies are unpopular among more than 80% of the population in a series of polls, and yet he is marching to his own drummer.

[Ali Velshi]

Still, it doesn't hurt that Donald Trump has called his trial a witch hunt. In fact, that New York Times reporting goes on to say that that when he was in the court for this trial, it sounded like he was enjoying himself. He said, I am shocked by the magnitude of this absurdity. Netanyahu told the court. I am the prime minister. I am running a country. I am running a war. He continued, I am not occupying myself with my future, but rather with that of the state of Israel. Again, lots of similarities. You and I have talked about this a lot, a lot of similarities between what's going on with Netanyahu in Israel and what's going on with Trump in America. It's this idea that I'm busy doing stuff. I'm not concerned with my future, even if there are court cases or trials or criminal indictments of me.

[Brandi Zadrozny]

Ali, a less generous way to put that goes back to the French kings, right? L', Etats, c' est moi, the state, it's me. And so when Netanyahu says I'm looking forward, I am looking out for the future of the state of Israel, I think there's a significant chance that it's not a cynical ploy and that he genuinely, right now at age 76, is in a place 74, forgive me, he is in a place where he genuinely believes that, where he in his own mind cannot distinguish between the state and himself. And there were indications. I'm not, you know, a psychologist, but I can tell you that during the brief year plus hiatus of him out of power, when Naftali Bennett was Prime minister and subsequently Yair Lapid, Netanyahu simply refused to address them as prime minister for him, they didn't exist in that role. And I think that I've seen him many times as trial, you and I have discussed it. I think he may really believe it. And therefore so it's easy for him to be in what classically is called contempt of court, literally sitting in court, mocking his judges, mercilessly, mocking his prosecutors, laughing at the whole thing. Another interpretation of this, of course, non contradictory, is that, and we read this in the New York Times articles as well, is that he thought he was going to be able to crush the judiciary in Israel a bit more easily than it turned out to be. So he's mocking a procedure he thought he'd never have to face.

[Ali Velshi]

Noga, as always, we appreciate not only your analysis, but the fact that it's very late for you right now. Nogar Tarnopolski. Thank you my friend. We'll be right back. And that's tonight's last word. USAA knows dynamic duos can save the day like superheroes and sidekicks or auto and home insurance. With usaa, you can bundle your auto and home and save up to 10%. Tap the banner to learn more and get a [e-mail] bundle restrictions applied.