Trump Cabinet picks facing multiple controversies

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Last Word with Lawrence O’Donnell Episode Title: Trump Cabinet Picks Facing Multiple Controversies
Release Date: November 28, 2024
Host: Lawrence O'Donnell, MSNBC

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1. Introduction

In this episode of "The Last Word," Lawrence O'Donnell delves into the contentious landscape surrounding former President Donald Trump's recent cabinet nominations. Drawing from his extensive experience in political affairs and executive production, O'Donnell provides an in-depth analysis of the controversies enveloping Trump's picks and their potential implications for American politics and governance.

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2. Trump's Cabinet Selections and Their Controversies

Overview: Trump's cabinet appointments have sparked significant debate due to the controversial backgrounds and qualifications of several nominees. O'Donnell scrutinizes these choices, questioning their suitability for high-level government positions.

Key Points:

• Keith Kellogg as Special Envoy for Ukraine and Russia
  Timestamp [15:00]
  Quote: "Trump way wants to give Putin parts of Ukraine, rewarding his illegal invasion of a sovereign neighbor."
  Analysis: Kellogg's previous policy paper advocating for conditional military aid to Kyiv raises concerns about Trump's approach to the Ukraine-Russia conflict, suggesting a potentially flawed strategy that favors appeasement over robust support.

• John Phalen as Secretary of the Navy
  Timestamp [16:00]
  Quote: "Phalen did not serve in the military and does not have a long track record with the Navy."
  Analysis: Phalen's primary credentials are his significant campaign donations to Trump, leading to fears of cronyism and questions about his ability to competently manage the Navy without relevant experience.

• Pete Hexath as Secretary of Defense
  Timestamp [17:00]
  Quote: "Hexath thinks women should not serve in the armed forces and was accused of sexual assault."
  Analysis: Hexath's controversial views and allegations against him undermine his credibility and suitability for leading the Defense Department, highlighting ethical and policy concerns.

• Tulsi Gabbard as Director of National Intelligence
  Timestamp [18:00]
  Quote: "Gabbard has parroted Russian talking points."
  Analysis: Gabbard's perceived affinity towards Russian narratives poses a significant risk to national intelligence integrity and the impartiality required for such a pivotal role.

• Linda McMahon as Secretary of Education
  Timestamp [19:00]
  Quote: "McMahon has a degree in French but never worked as a teacher."
  Analysis: McMahon's lack of educational experience raises doubts about her capability to effectively lead the Department of Education, especially amidst critical educational reforms.

Conclusion: O'Donnell emphasizes that Trump's cabinet selections often prioritize loyalty over expertise, potentially hindering effective governance and undermining public trust in federal institutions.

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3. Democratic Strategies Against a Second Trump Term

Overview: Democratic Congressman Eric Swalwell shares insights into the party's strategic approach to countering Trump's anticipated second term, focusing on unity and targeted legislative efforts.

Key Points:

• Unity and Purposefulness
  Timestamp [14:00]
  Quote: "Democrats have to make sure that the public knows we are the wrecking ball to make sure that when you work hard, you do better."
  Analysis: Swalwell underscores the importance of maintaining party unity and a clear, consistent message to effectively oppose Trump's policies and legislative agendas.

• Targeting Trump Tax Cuts
  Timestamp [15:30]
  Quote: "There's about 6 to 10 votes right there that are going to be very skeptical on those Trump tax cuts."
  Analysis: By applying pressure on vulnerable Republican members, Democrats aim to block Trump's tax initiatives that disproportionately benefit the wealthy, ensuring fiscal policies that support working-class Americans.

• Emerging Young Leaders
  Timestamp [16:00]
  Quote: "New young leaders are emerging... a new wave of leadership that's really stepping up."
  Analysis: The infusion of fresh perspectives and dynamic leadership within the Democratic ranks is seen as pivotal in energizing the party and mobilizing voter support against Trump's resurgence.

Conclusion: Swalwell advocates for a strategic, unified Democratic front that leverages legislative checks and promotes inclusive policies to effectively counterbalance Trump's influence.

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4. Impact of Texas Abortion Bans on Women's Healthcare

Overview: O'Donnell highlights the dire consequences of Texas's stringent abortion laws, featuring insights from New Yorker contributor Stefania Taladrid and physician Dr. Lippi Roy. The discussion centers on the exodus of OB-GYNs and the ensuing healthcare crisis for women in Texas.

Key Points:

• Preventable Deaths and Medical Shortages
  Timestamp [21:50]
  Quote: "All three did not receive the emergency care they needed after experiencing miscarriages."
  Analysis: The abortion bans have directly led to tragic outcomes, where women like Vanessa Garcia and Yennefer Alvarez Estrada suffered fatal complications without access to necessary medical interventions.

• Exodus of OB-GYNs
  Timestamp [22:30]
  Quote: "More than 20% of OB GYNs in Texas are already thinking, if not have already made a decision to leave Texas."
  Analysis: The restrictive laws have driven a significant number of healthcare professionals out of Texas, exacerbating the state's maternal mortality rates and creating a healthcare desert for women.

• Legal and Ethical Dilemmas
  Timestamp [29:00]
  Quote: "These laws are essentially pit patients against their doctors and doctors against their patients."
  Analysis: The vague exceptions in the laws create a hostile environment where medical professionals are forced to choose between ethical obligations and legal repercussions, undermining the standard of care.

Conclusion: O'Donnell emphasizes that Texas's abortion bans are not only a violation of women's rights but also a humanitarian crisis, highlighting the urgent need for policy reform to ensure accessible and safe healthcare for all women.

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5. Elon Musk’s Relationship with Trump and Its Implications

Overview: The episode examines Elon Musk's intricate ties with the Trump administration, exploring potential conflicts of interest and the influence of his business ventures on political dynamics.

Key Points:

• Musk’s Influence and Government Contracts
  Timestamp [33:00]
  Quote: "SpaceX... has received nearly $20 billion in government contracts since 2008."
  Analysis: Musk's substantial government contracts position him as a key player with vested interests that may affect policy decisions, raising concerns about the blurring lines between business and government.

• Dogecoin and Political Maneuvering
  Timestamp [34:30]
  Quote: "Dogecoin's price has shot up more than 180% over the last month."
  Analysis: Musk's promotion of Dogecoin and its unexpected surge underscores potential market manipulations tied to his political affiliations, warranting scrutiny over his financial and political strategies.

• Double Standards in Social Media Regulation
  Timestamp [35:00]
  Quote: "There were all these concerns... but here we are... no particular concerns about it."
  Analysis: O'Donnell points out the inconsistency in public and governmental responses to Musk's actions on platforms like Twitter, highlighting a potential double standard in regulating powerful tech moguls.

Conclusion: O'Donnell raises critical questions about Musk's dual role as a tech leader and political influencer, suggesting that his actions could significantly impact governance, market stability, and democratic processes.

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6. Republican Immigration Policies and Economic Impact

Overview: Congressman Robert Garcia discusses the Republican agenda to deport millions of undocumented immigrants and its detrimental effects on the American economy, particularly in the agricultural sector.

Key Points:

• Economic Dependency on Immigrant Labor
  Timestamp [42:00]
  Quote: "Immigrant labor is a key part of the American economy, and that includes immigrants who pick so much of the food that all of us will eat tomorrow on Thanksgiving."
  Analysis: Garcia emphasizes that millions of undocumented workers are integral to various industries, especially agriculture, and deporting them would lead to labor shortages and economic instability.

• Humanitarian Concerns and Inhumanity of Mass Deportations
  Timestamp [43:00]
  Quote: "Donald Trump ran a whole campaign centered around denigrating and sometimes outright lying about immigrants."
  Analysis: The proposed mass deportations are portrayed as inhumane and antithetical to American values, with significant human costs and ethical repercussions.

• Impact on Food Production and Prices
  Timestamp [44:50]
  Quote: "Half of the people that are out there picking our food would be up for deportation."
  Analysis: The potential loss of agricultural workers threatens the food supply chain, likely leading to increased prices and reduced availability of essential food items.

Conclusion: Garcia warns that Republican immigration policies not only inflict human suffering but also undermine the foundational economic structures of the United States, advocating for a more compassionate and economically sound approach to immigration.

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7. Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Lawrence O'Donnell's episode provides a comprehensive examination of the multifaceted controversies surrounding Trump's cabinet nominations, Democratic strategies to counteract potential policy shifts, the severe impact of Texas's abortion laws on women's healthcare, Elon Musk's influential and possibly conflicting relationship with the Trump administration, and the precarious economic implications of Republican immigration policies. Through insightful interviews and critical analysis, O'Donnell underscores the profound consequences these political dynamics hold for the future of American governance, societal well-being, and economic stability.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• Eric Swalwell on Democratic Unity:
  [15:13] "Our unity can make sure that we have an immigration plan that gets rid of violent offenders, but recognizes the workforce crisis we have here in America."

• Stefania Taladrid on Texas Healthcare Crisis:
  [26:36] "These are the folks that we're talking about. And it's not just them that are actually making the food."

• Mike Masnick on Elon Musk’s Influence:
  [34:07] "This situation is unprecedented in lots of ways... there are ethics concerns about anyone who is involved in the government."

• Robert Garcia on Immigration and Economy:
  [42:35] "The idea there were some kind of mass deport all of these workers that we depend on, that our families depend on, is absolutely crazy."

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This detailed summary encapsulates the pivotal discussions and critical insights presented in the episode, offering listeners a thorough understanding of the pressing political issues debated by Lawrence O'Donnell and his guests.

Transcript

[Jonathan Capehart]

If you could hear love, what would it sound like?

[Father]

Son, can we talk about your drinking?

[Jonathan Capehart]

Yeah, Dad, I think we should. Helping those closest to you think about their excessive drinking. Maybe that's what love sounds like. [e-mail] An OHA initiative building a business.

[Father]

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[Jonathan Capehart]

Now it is time for the Last Word with my friend Jonathan Capehart in for Lawrence.

[Alicia]

Good evening, Jonathan.

[Jonathan Capehart]

Hey, Alicia. So do you cook for Thanksgiving or do you go out like we do?

[Kamala Harris]

No, I want to tell you, my pie is done.

[Alicia]

My turkey is marinating in the refrigerator, so look out.

[Jonathan Capehart]

Oh, okay. Well, maybe next year we'll get an invitation.

[Alicia]

Have a good night.

[Jonathan Capehart]

Thanks, Alisa. Happy Thanksgiving.

[Alicia]

Happy Thanksgiving.

[Jonathan Capehart]

And on this Thanksgiving eve, we're going to do something a little different. Normally, when I host this show on the night before Thanksgiving, I close with what might be my favorite video of all time. It's become a holiday tradition since it went viral five years ago. I love it, and so many of you have told me how much you love it, too. In 2019, before an interview on MSNBC, I asked then Senator Kamala Harris, my husband Nick's question about whether a wet brine or a dry brine was the best for a turkey. And since I know nothing about cooking, I recorded her answer, which she gave while also doing a mic check.

[Alicia]

If you have time to do a wet brine, that's fine. And do it like a pot of water, a couple bay leaves, a little sugar, a little cup of peppercorns. You could even do a little slice of orange, something like that. Oh, yes. Hi. Yes, I'm here. Okay. I'm going to talk about a recipe while you're checking. Is that okay? She'll tell me if I'm annoying her.

[Jonathan Capehart]

Okay.

[Alicia]

Hey, how you doing? Hi. Okay, so, Nick, if you're doing okay, Nick. But a dry brine is easier. And do it brine for 24. But 48 hours is best if you have the time. Make sure. You guys getting a fresh turkey.

[Jonathan Capehart]

Yeah.

[Alicia]

Okay.

[Jonathan Capehart]

It's being delicious.

[Alicia]

And so just one minute out. I have one minute. Kosher salt, fresh ground pepper, maybe chop up a little thyme and just. And then you can mix it even a little. Okay. So do the salt and pepper all over it. Like just like lather that baby up right on the outside in the cavity. You could also chop up, but not with the thyme, just the salt and pepper. Mix that up also with some thyme. You could even do a little rosemary if you want, under the skin with some butter before you're gonna cook it so that butter will just melt in there. And then get a nice big bottle of cheap white wine to baste with butter. Yes. Hi.

[Jonathan Capehart]

So that video has always been great. A high profile and formidable politician being completely real generous with her time, obviously passionate and just fun. That video took on new resonance this year when Kamala Harris was introduced as the Democratic presidential nominee. And that video made an off season appearance during this presidential campaign, which I was reminded of today when I went to share it. Because after Vice President Kamala Harris destroyed Donald Trump in their first and only presidential debate, angry Trump fans started circulating that video as proof of a wild conspiracy about audio earrings. They couldn't process what they had seen, which was that Trump had just gotten TKO'd on the debate stage by a black woman. It couldn't be that 59 year old Harris was sharper than 78 year old Trump, or that she had spent the last four years in the Vice presidency and he spent it on golf courses and in courtrooms. It must be that someone is feeding her the answers. This conspiracy was so rampant among Trump people that it required fact checking from major news outlets. And today, yes, today, as I discovered this afternoon, it is still being flagged on some platforms as misinformation. It is but one example of a dumb Trump world fever dream. A whole cloth lie willed into existence online. And unfortunately, it's not over yet. But do not let Trump will into existence. The idea that this is what America wants, it's not even what half of America wants. Tonight, Donald Trump is still under 50% of the popular vote. The majority of Americans who voted in this presidential election voted against Trump. Trump got about 4 million fewer votes than Joe Biden did in 2020. Joe Biden, who got the most votes of any presidential candidate ever. And Trump lost seats in the House Republican majority that he will need if he wants to pass any of this legislation, especially severe government spending cuts. Tonight, NBC News called the second to last outstanding House race for Democrat Derek Tran, who beat incumbent Republican Michelle Steele in California's 45th district. And in the final outstanding House race of this election cycle, Democrat Adam Gray has taken the lead over the Republican in California's 13th district. If the Democrats win there, it would make nine House seat flips for the Democrats and would leave Republicans with just two seats to spare for a 218 majority. And that's before the House members tapped for Trump administration jobs resigned their seats. Vice President Kamala Harris said this to supporters in a call last night.

[Alicia]

Let me just say to everyone on this call, I am so grateful for you and I'm so thankful to you. I'm thankful for your love of our country and your willingness to put the work into it. I know this is an uncertain time. I'm clear eyed about that. I know you're clear eyed about it and it feels heavy. And I just have to remind you, don't you ever let anybody take your power from you. You have the same power that you did before November 5th, and you have the same purpose that you did, and you have the same ability to engage and inspire.

[Jonathan Capehart]

In the Louisville Courier Journal, columnist Joe Gerth wrote about what liberals can be thankful for ahead of a second Trump term. First and foremost, I'm thankful for term limits. The thought of four years of Trump and his inane and sometimes cruel policy decisions is bad enough, but at least the damage he can do to the country is limited by the 22nd Amendment to the US Constitution that says a president can't be elected to more than two terms. I'm also thankful that it would take a two thirds vote in the House and Senate and three fourths of the states to change the U.S. constitution to make a third Trump term possible. The column also makes the point that basically there's no guarantee Trump will succeed at any of it. Donald Trump is nearly done selecting the nominees for his Cabinet in major administration posts, and let's be honest, this is not a slate that screams guaranteed success. Today, Donald Trump announced that he has chosen retired general Keith Kellogg to serve as his special envoy for Ukraine and Russia. NBC News reports. Quote, Kellogg in April co authored a policy paper obtained by NBC News, outlining how he'd seek to end the war in Ukraine, including potentially conditioning US Military aid to Kyiv on their participation in peace talks with Russia. We know Trump's idea of peace talks is giving Putin parts of Ukraine, rewarding his illegal invasion of a sovereign neighbor. And yesterday, Trump selected businessman John Phalen as his pick to be Secretary of the Navy, whose main credentials for the job appear to be that he was a major donor to Donald Trump's campaign. Politico reports that, quote, trump chose Phelan, who did not serve in the military and does not have a long track record with the Navy, after a round of interviews at Mar a Lago on Monday. According to one person familiar with the matter, Trump's pick of Phelan after choosing former Fox News host Pete Hexath to lead the Defense Department is a sign that the incoming administration could prioritize disruptors coming into the agency instead of long tenured bureaucrats. The seemingly quid pro quo pick would be leading headlines. Except it's Trump. So it's not the worst, not by a long shot. Matt Gaetz was already forced to withdraw his nomination amid an ethics committee investigation into alleged statutory rape, sexual misconduct and illicit drug use. So, so bad that Republican senators vocally opposed his confirmation. And there are several others who could face very tough confirmation fights ahead, including Pete Hegseth, the former Fox weekend host who thinks women should not serve in the armed forces and who was accused of sexual assault, though he wasn't charged for secretary of defense, and Tulsi Gabbard, who has parroted Russian talking points for director of National Intelligence. Secretary of education pick Linda McMahon, the former WWE president and failed Senate candidate will surely get a question about the child sex abuse lawsuit filed against her organization. But you might be asking, what does a wrestling executive know about education? She has a degree in French but never worked as a teacher and spent a year on the Connecticut Board of Education. Running the government is real work. It's hard to understand because most people don't see the way government works. Would a hospital hand the scalpel to someone who once made a big donation to the hospital? No, that's not a surgeon. Would an NFL coach pick a player who had played a total of one year of football? Of course not. And as for the unorthodox picks, what happens if there's another health risk? A health crisis like Covid? Remember the early days of COVID Ers, full morgues on the streets, no vaccines, thousands of people dying every week. Do you really want Robert F. Kennedy Jr. A vaccine skeptic with no experience in health whatsoever and a worm on the brain, to be in charge of our health department during an emergency? We'll wait for the confirmation hearing, but it's possible the answer is no. We'll find out what Republican senators will tolerate. They drew the line at Matt Gaetz, of course, Many of the Trump picks will be confirmed. Then the disruptors will have to prove they can run a functional government. The deport them all people and fire them all people will have to do it. Overcoming the logistical and legal obstacles and also prove that it will make people's lives better. That was the promise, after all. So when you consider all that, it's possible this is the high period for the second Trump term because for the next 54 days, Trump can say whatever he wants on social media. And the country's still in the steady hands of Joe Biden and Kamala Harris. Joining us now, Democratic Congressman Eric Swalwell of California. He served as an impeachment manager in the second impeachment trial of Donald Trump and is suing Donald Trump over the January 6th attack. He is a member of the House Judiciary and Homeland Security Committees. Congressman Swalwell, great to see you. What is the Democratic mentality going into the second Trump term?

[Eric Swalwell]

Be purposeful. You know, don't waste our energy on every ball that he throws. I said this when Matt Gaetz was nominated. He's never going to be attorney general. Just because he's a Trump lapdog doesn't mean we have to chase every ball Trump throws. Now we're going into we got to get back on the field because there are plays coming at us. And if we give up a single yard to Trump's Project 2025, people are going to get hurt and it's going to cost them a lot of money and a lot of pain. And some of those plays, of course, on the Senate side will be who is in charge of vaccines for our kids, who is going to keep peace in the world and our alliances, as well as who's going to be the attorney general to make sure we have a rule of law on the House side? Jonathan, the House can fence him in. We know what a tight margin House looks like. We just went through that. And we showed unity under Hakeem Jeffries while they showed chaos. And so our unity can beat back the Trump tax cuts that only benefit billionaires. Our unity can make sure that we have an immigration plan that gets rid of violent offenders, but recognizes the workforce crisis we have here in America. So we got to get back on the field because there's plays coming at us and we need to stay unified.

[Jonathan Capehart]

So speaking of chaos, do you expect more chaos or less? More chaos and less legislating in the House than we saw in Trump's first term.

[Eric Swalwell]

So, as you pointed out, we have 215 likely members going into this Next Congress, they have to be perfect. And that's how we can really fence them in on the Trump tax cuts. Because if you're a New York Republican and you just saw us wipe out three New York Republicans and flip seats there, you better not go to Congress and vote to get rid of the salt deduction, the state and local tax deduction that Trump wants to get rid of for working families. And if you're a California Republican in a high cost area and you just saw us pick off three Republican seats, you're going to be thinking the same way. So that's about 6 to 10 votes right there that are going to be very skeptical on those Trump tax cuts. And so we have to work to put pressure on those members and stay unified ourselves. What's exciting about what we have ahead, despite the darkness of what happened on November 5, is new young leaders are emerging. Just think about in the Congress who we saw in this last two years. Jasmine Crockett, Jared Moskowitz, Dan Goldman, Ruben Gallego won in Arizona and so did Alyssa Slotkin. So you've got this new wave of leadership that's really stepping up and I think will inspire people who just ran a marathon and then were punched in the gut at the finish line. And then we're told, hey, go run 26.2 more miles because your country needs you.

[Jonathan Capehart]

Trump's cabinet is nearly done. Congress, what do you think the American people can expect from this collection of loyalists and disruptors given they have to work with Congress?

[Eric Swalwell]

So I'm a sports guy. I played college sports. And I remember before every big game, you know, we had an image in the locker room leading up to the game and that would fire us up. And it was usually, you know, trash talking that the other side had thrown our way. And the image that is in my mind since election night is the broliarchy. Elon Musk, Dana White, Donald Trump sitting around a table at Mar a Lago, basically just carving up all of the goods and riches in this country for themselves and leaving everything to the rest. Democrats have to make sure that the public knows we are the wrecking ball to make sure that when you work hard, you do better, that Republicans will fight for the rich, we will fight for the rest.

[Jonathan Capehart]

I just wrote this down, Broly. Archie. Congressman, one more question for you. What do you think Keith Kellogg, what do you think of Keith Kellogg as Trump's choice for envoy? What does it mean for Ukraine, given his positions?

[Eric Swalwell]

It's really Donald Trump, because, you know, Keith Kellogg's not the one with the personal relationship with Vladimir Putin and who has worked in the service of Vladimir Putin as Trump has so often. And so he can't do anything that Trump doesn't sign off on. I'm encouraged that our European allies, our NATO allies are stepping up right now. Joe Biden's doing everything possible to give Ukraine the resources they need. But Americans need to understand that if this goes sideways, if we turn Ukraine over to Russia, Poland and the NATO allies on that front are next. And that could be the end of the rule of law, free loving people and democracy. And so we have to stand strong for that.

[Jonathan Capehart]

Congressman Eric Swalwell getting a jump on Christmas with a tree in the background. Thank you. We need cheers.

[Eric Swalwell]

We need cheers.

[Jonathan Capehart]

Thanks very much, Congressman. Thanks for coming back to the last word. Coming up, new reporting this week shed more light on the unnecessary deaths linked to Texas abortion ban. And now we're learning about the second health crisis the law is creating in that state. The shrinking number of OB GYNs willing to stay in Texas, leaving women there in a healthcare desert. More on that next. If you could hear love, what would it sound?

[Father]

Son, can we talk about your drinking?

[Jonathan Capehart]

Yeah, Dad, I think we should helping those closest to you think about their excessive drinking. Maybe that's what love sounds like. [e-mail] An OHA initiative Building a business.

[Father]

May feel like a big jump, but on deck small business loans can help keep you afloat. With lines of credit up to $100,000 and term loans up to 250,000, OnDeck lets you choose the loan that's right for your business. As a top rated online small business lender, OnDeck's team of loan advisors can help you find the right business loan to fit your needs. Visit ondeck.com for more information. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by Ondeck or Celtic Bank. Ondeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

[Stephania Taladrid]

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[Jonathan Capehart]

Jocely Barnica, Navia Crane and now Portia Ngumezi. We know their names due to reporting by ProPublica detailing how Texas abortion ban led to their preventable deaths. According to medical experts, all three did not receive the emergency care they needed after experiencing miscarriages. Earlier this week, Lawrence spoke to one Texas OB gyn who was forced to leave the state to receive life saving abortion care about the threats facing doctors in Texas.

[Kamala Harris]

We're afraid that we're going to be thrown in jail, that we're going to lose our license, that we're going to be fined thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars. I mean, I've spent my entire adults career becoming the best kind of doctor. I can be going to medical school, residency training for years and years to take great care of my patients. I have so much on the line and I wake up every morning wanting to take good care of them. We think about our patients when we wake up in the morning, we think about them when we go to bed at night. It's a calling and it's a career. So we're really putting everything out there on the line to be able to provide the care that we know is the right thing to do for our patients.

[Jonathan Capehart]

Now thanks to this law written and passed by Republicans in Texas, there is a significant drop in new OBGYNs coming to the state, according to a report titled the Texas OBGYN Exodus by our next guest, the New Yorker's Stephania Talajid. The report follows one doctor who helped build an OBGYN residency program in Texas, Rio Grande Valley, to provide, quote, the kind of health care for women that they deserved. But after Texas abortion ban went into effect, nearly all of the residents recruited for that program left Texas, including Zoe Kornberg. Quote. Kornberg was moving to Los Angeles to finish her residency. Like the doctors who had left before her, Kornberg had come to see herself as part of the problem. She said, I have the knowledge, all the support staff, everything to be able to help this person avoid one of these horrible outcomes. And they're begging me to do it, but I'm not allowed to. The bans felt like a personal attack. She said the state sees you as a felon when the act of caring for pregnant women in Texas could carry the same penalty as murder. The inevitable conclusion for Kornberg was, you don't want me here? Fine, I'll leave. Joining us now is Stefania Taladrid, contributing writer at the New Yorker, and Dr. Lippi Roy, internal medicine physician. Thank you both very much for coming to the Last Word. Stefania, you wrote about Vanessa Garcia who didn't get adequate miscarriage care until she was referred to a physician in your piece, Dr. Tony Ogburn. And Dr. Ogburn has now left The Rio Grande Valley. So what do women like Vanessa Garcia do now?

[Dr. Lippi Roy]

It's important to take into account the context in which all of this has taken place. And it's important to mention as well that before these bans went into effect, Jonathan, half of the counties in Texas did not have a single specialist to care for women. So that means that there was no bgyn, no nurse, no midwife who could care for mothers and their babies. In addition to that, if you look at the data, over the past two decades, the maternal mortality rates in Texas have more than doubled. So this is the context in which these bans have taken effect. Right. You mentioned the names of three women who passed away because of the abortion bans. I would add one more name, and that is the name of Yennefer Alvarez Estrada. She is a woman from Lulang, one a rural town from Texas and one of the state's many maternity care deserts. The Seoul General Hospital in Luling does not have a labor and delivery unit. There is no single ob gyn. And for many, many years, women like Yennefer had gotten used to traveling many, many miles to seek care. Now, when Jenny got pregnant at the age of 26, she was diabetic, she was obese, she was hypertensive. And we have a doctor with us today who can tell you that these are pretty common conditions for pregnant women. In addition to that, she developed a condition known as pulmonary edema, which can be fatal in pregnancy. And any physician will tell you that pregnancy is, in essence, a test on the body. And so when women get sick, some women might not be able to stand that test. And so what happened in the case of Jenny? She was 27 when she died. This was 16 days after the overturning of Roe v. Wade. She died with her baby in the womb. And no one, we reviewed 3,000 pages of medical records. No one raised the possibility of a therapeutic abortion or termination at no point. Right. And so this is the context in which this is happening. And as you pointed out, there's a tremendous exodus happening now in Texas. We reported from the Rio Grande Valley, but this is not particular to the Rio Grande Valley. There was a report that came out just recently which suggests that more than 20% of OB GYNs in Texas are already thinking, if not have already made a decision to leave Texas. And there has been a 16% drop in residency applications in OB GYN over the past year. So these are very important statistics to take into account.

[Jonathan Capehart]

And, you know, Dr. Roy, let me bring you in here, because, you know, 21 states moved to ban abortion after the Supreme Court reversed Roe. And physicians around the country are still struggling to provide health care. Are obgyns and other physicians bracing for more restrictions after this election?

[Robert Garcia]

Jonathan, Texas is one example of a state that's in crisis and specifically the women that are in that state. The idea that as a physician the thought of being punished for providing medical care is outrageous. And by punishment we're not just talking about revoking a medical license, which by the way is dangerous enough, but we're talking about arresting, incarcerating and convicting doctors, obstetricians, gynecologists for a felony simply for providing their care. Remember, to not provide medical care is a violation of our oath that we take as physicians. Primum non nocere. First do no harm. The doctors that are in Texas and in 21 states, as you pointed out, their hands are being tied. They are unable to provide care to women who need care, who need evidence based treatment. As a physician, I'm talking to multiple other fellow medical professionals, not just doctors, but nurses, nurse practitioners, physician assistants and other, not just in the United States but elsewhere, globally. It is outrageous what is happening here in the United States and states like Texas and other states that are imposing these restrictive reproductive justice laws. They're sending a clear message, Jonathan, and that is they're saying that women are second class citizens. That is unacceptable. This needs to change.

[Jonathan Capehart]

Stefania, you've written extensively about the impact of abortion bans. And Texas doctors say the standard of medical care for women has significantly deteriorated after the fall of Roe. Is it even worse in places like Texas?

[Dr. Lippi Roy]

Absolutely. I mean there's, there's no doubt about that. And just to go back to the point that the doctor was mentioning, it's important for our listeners in New York to understand that there are three different abortion bans in place in Texas now. There's a six week ban known as SB8. There is the outright ban on abortion and the pre Roe trigger law. And so these laws have exceptions, right? The exceptions are, for instance, when a life, when the life of the mother is at risk or when she's at risk of facing a major impairment of a bodily function. So what does that mean? The language is intentionally vague and it's important to mention that these laws were not written by thy physicians. So when I have people tell me, you know, why don't these doctors just treat the women? Why don't these doctors just practice and follow the standard of care? It's important for listeners to understand and viewers to understand that what these laws are doing is essentially pit patients against their doctors and doctors against their patients, and they're forcing doctors to consider your well being or mine.

[Jonathan Capehart]

Stephanie Taladrid, Dr. Lippi, Roy, thank you both very much for coming to the Last Word. And coming up, what business does a guy with a social media company and a slew of government contracts have mucking around inside the White House? We'll discuss the Trump Musk alliance next with the founder of Tech Dirt, Mike Masnick. Elon Musk. He's everywhere and not just sniffing around Trump at Mar a Lago. And that's what he wants, because Elon Musk absolutely does not want. What he doesn't want are headlines about his money, his companies, and what return he might get on his $100 million bet on Trump's campaign. There's always the misdirection. Remember the so called Trump. I'm sorry, Twitter. What a Freudian slip. Twitter files. That was when Elon Musk shared internal data after he bought Twitter with a handful of sympathetic posters accusing social media companies of colluding with the government to censor private citizens, especially right leaning ones. The supposed scandal of course, sparked Republican congressional hearings where Republicans railed against Silicon Valley. There was never any evidence that was true. As our next guest noted in a recent op ed on msnbc, data shows that conservative opinion sites dominate platforms like Facebook even more than mainstream news organizations. And now there isn't even a suggestion that Musk should have to divest from his ownership of X. No one expects that. There is no discussion of how Musk set up an entire account on his own platform for his own Department of Government Efficiency and gave it a gray check mark denoting it as a verified government entity. And how is Elon Musk's Trump bet going for him? Tesla's stock price soared from $251.50 to $320.72 between election day through the end of that week. It's currently at $332.89. Then there's SpaceX, which has received nearly $20 billion in government contracts since 2008. The company also has a big ambitious project that it wants Trump to back. Vote for ealdonaldtrump if you want humanity to make it to Mars, Musk posted on X just days before the election. And that so called Department of Government Efficiency where Musk is a co chair, it's not a department and it's outside the government. But the acronym of his Blue Ribbon Commission just happens to be a dog themed cryptocurrency. Meme coin that Musk regularly hypes. Dodgy coins. Dodgy coin's price has shot up more than 180% over the last month. Then there are the federal agencies regulating his companies, a subject that Musk is famously touchy about. Look at you.

[Father]

I want to be clear. I do not respect the sec. I do not respect them.

[Jonathan Capehart]

That's Elon Musk, at first laughing and then turning visibly emotional in a 60 Minutes interview with Leslie Stahl in 2018, which took place shortly after Musk struck a $20 million settlement with the SEC, resolving claims that Musk defrauded investors in a second Trump White House. It's hard to imagine federal regulators making Musk emotional again, at least not like that. Joining us now is the founder and editor of the technology blog Tech Dirt, Mike Masnick. Mike, thank you very much for coming to the Last Word. What does Musk want most out of Trump and do you think he's likely to get it?

[Mike Masnick]

Well, it's a big open question in terms of what it is that he actually wants. He has a lot of projects and a lot of interests, obviously. I think the bigger issue, honestly, is just this double standard. You mentioned it in the intro, the fact that there were all these concerns and in fact, part of why Musk said he had to take over Twitter in the first place was because he believed that they were too connected to the Biden White House and that there was too much coordination between the Biden White House and the way that Twitter handled its content moderation at the time. And there were big concerns about that. There have been a bunch of lawsuits, none of which have shown anything legitimate. And yet here we are at this point where it's a situation where he is, he clearly runs the place. He clearly has decision making power over what is allowed and what is not allowed on the platform. And there have been all these stories about how he's blocking links to competitors, how he's taking down down accounts of journalists who are critical of him, all of these things that he accused the former leaders of Twitter before he bought it of doing. And then when he's there and he's doing it and it's much more out in the open that he is obviously very closely connected to the incoming Trump administration. There don't seem to be any particular concerns about it. And all the people who were yelling about it earlier are suddenly quiet about it.

[Jonathan Capehart]

You know, Mike, the investigative reporting on Musk's interests is just beginning. Here's the New York Times on Musk and China, quote no American business leader has more visibly and lavishly supported President elect Donald J. Trump than Elon Musk. And few, if any, have a more complex relationship with China, a country that Mr. Trump has vowed to confront with higher tariffs and other measures. Mr. Musk has a lot on the line. Some experts have suggested that Beijing may be able to turn Mr. Musk into an influential ally in trying to persuade Mr. Trump to take a more conciliatory approach on trade.

[Mike Masnick]

This situation is unprecedented in lots of ways, right? I mean, he has interests, incredible interests around the world. He is the wealthiest person in history, and he is, you know, his interests are tied up in all of these different countries. And some of those are, you know, aligned with what incoming President Trump has suggested he wants to do. And some of them are opposed to it. And it's unclear, you know, where those things are going to come out, who's going to win over. I mean, Elon is acting as if he is effectively co president in a lot of ways and that he seems to be expecting that the incoming Trump administration will do exactly as he wants. But it's unclear how these things are going to play out. And the clear conflicts of interest between all of these different things is really remarkable and yet not getting that much attention. The role of him as being part of this Doge group, which again, is not an official government department. We'll see what it actually turns out to be. There are ethics concerns about anyone who is involved in the government, especially determining what kinds of programs are going to be cut, what kinds of global programs are going to be, what sort of relationships we're going to have in different countries. Donald Trump put Elon Musk on the phone with global leaders after the election. There's all of these open questions, and again, this is all being done in a way that is extremely unprecedented and that we've never seen anything quite like this before.

[Jonathan Capehart]

Mike Masnick, thank you for coming to the Last Words. Is it dogecoin or is it dodgy coin?

[Mike Masnick]

It's Doge. It's Doge. People say Doge.

[Jonathan Capehart]

People say Doge. I'm gonna say dodgy. Mike Matzing, thank you very much for coming to the Last Word. Coming up, Republicans backing Trump's threats to deport migrant workers in this country are pretending they don't know how important those workers are to our economy, including the work they do harvesting a lot of the food that will be on your Thanksgiving table tomorrow. That's next with Congressman Robert Garcia.

[Father]

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[Stephania Taladrid]

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[Jonathan Capehart]

This is the sound of your ride home with dad after he caught you vaping. Awkward, isn't it? Most vapes contain seriously addictive levels of nicotine and disappointment. Know the real cost of vapes brought.

[Alicia]

To you by the fda.

[Jonathan Capehart]

Thanksgiving dinner will cost less this year with inflation now back to normal levels, the American Farm Bureau Federation estimates the average cost of a typical Thanksgiving dinner will be roughly $58 this year, down 5% from last year. And turkey prices? They're down 6%. And this year and every other year in America, you can thank a farm worker for Thanksgiving. The United Farm Workers shows us some of the people who pick our food, like Rocio, who picks lettuce Sonia, who harvests leeks for stuffing and soup Jorge, who's working overtime picking and packing sweet potatoes and Esteban, who cuts pumpkin vines. The United Farm Workers asks this Thanksgiving, remember the hard work behind the pumpkin pie on your table, we feed you. The farm workers and dairy workers and meatpacking workers work long hours in difficult and sometimes dangerous conditions and for low pay to keep American supermarkets stocked. Nearly half of US Farm workers lack legal status. So far, there's no indication that Donald Trump would exempt agricultural workers from his calls for mass deportation when he takes office. Donald Trump ran a whole campaign centered around denigrating and sometimes outright lying about immigrants. And now Donald Trump is threatening millions with deportation and raids. Americans who voted for Trump and believe mass deportations will help the economy have a delusional relationship with immigrant labor because that labor and its benefits are often invisible. Immigrant labor is a key part of the American economy, and that includes immigrants who pick so much of the food that all of us will eat tomorrow on Thanksgiving. Joining us now, Congressman Robert Garcia of California. He is a member of the House Oversight and Homeland Security Committees. Congressman Garcia, thanks for being here. Good to see you. President Elect Trump has said he plans to appoint former ICE Director Tom Homan as the next border czar. And he is very supportive of deporting millions of undocumented immigrants. And immigration hardliner Stephen Miller is also expected to return to the White House. How concerned are you that Trump will be able to successfully remove millions of immigrants once he takes office?

[Joe Gerth]

Well, happy Thanksgiving Day. Jonathan, I like you just completely agree. These conversations of rhetoric that's coming out of the Trump transition team and his appointees is quite frankly, un American and shameful and would it harm the economy? We have to remember this Thanksgiving that like you said, the folks that are out there right now making sure that we have food on the table, not just on Thanksgiving, but all year long, many of them are undocumented. Many might have a residency, some type of temporary residency, that which they'd like to make permanent. These are the folks that we're talking about. And it's not just them that are actually making the food. When you're going out to dinner, it's the waiters that are working the restaurant, it's the cooks in the kitchen, it's the hotel workers at our hotels, it's the people in the service industry that are cleaning the restrooms that we use when we go out with our family and friends. And so the idea there were some kind of mass deport all of these workers that we depend on, that our families depend on, is absolutely crazy. It's inhumane. It is un American. And what I think is really dangerous. It's not just the human cost. This would actually dramatically hurt the economy. You're going to pick up and deport millions of workers. And by the way, many of these jobs are very hard to fill. So who's going to do these jobs? I think those are questions that we need to ask ourselves and strongly oppose these efforts by Donald Trump.

[Jonathan Capehart]

Congressman, you remember Trump's town hall on Univision where he spoke to an immigrant farmer? Watch this. We'll talk about it on the other side.

[Mike Masnick]

If you deport these people, who would do that job?

[Father]

And what price would we pay for food, Please?

[Jonathan Capehart]

Finished? Yes. Yes. So the problem we have is we had people coming in under my administration, and they were coming in legally. They were coming in through a system that we had, which was great because I'm the best thing that ever happened to farmers. I mean, that was the best question of that forum. And Trump says he's the greatest thing that ever happened to farmers. Is there any proof that farmers were in a better position four years ago?

[Joe Gerth]

I mean, look, this is crazy. Donald Trump is literally threatening him and all the folks he's trying to appoint are threatening to deport half of America's farm workers. I mean, that's the bottom line we're talking about. Half of the people that are out there picking our food would be up for deportation through Donald Trump's plans. And the MAGA base is demanding it. So this is a horrific take for the economy. It makes absolutely zero sense. And so I think it's really quite shameful what's actually happening right now. I hope Americans push back on it and especially this Thanksgiving are thinking about all these people that are just asking to be here just so they can work and provide for their families and quite frankly, provide for the country.

[Jonathan Capehart]

Congressman Robert Garcia, thank you. Happy Thanksgiving.

[Joe Gerth]

You, too.

[Jonathan Capehart]

And we'll be right back. I want to wish all of you a happy Thanksgiving. I'll see you this weekend on the Saturday Show. I'll be speaking to the governor of Hawaii, Dr. Josh Green, about Dr. Oz, RFK Jr. And some of the other Trump picks and their potential impact on health care policy and public health at large. I hope you'll join us. That is tonight's last word.

[Father]

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