Trump & Musk sidelined as House passes spending bill

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Last Word with Lawrence O’Donnell – “Trump & Musk Sidelined as House Passes Spending Bill”

Introduction

In the December 21, 2024 episode of The Last Word with Lawrence O’Donnell, host Lawrence O’Donnell delves into the dramatic passage of a government spending bill by the House of Representatives. The episode, titled "Trump & Musk Sidelined as House Passes Spending Bill," explores the political maneuvering that prevented a government shutdown, the sidelining of former President Donald Trump and entrepreneur Elon Musk, and the broader implications for American governance. Drawing insights from political analysts and elected officials, the discussion sheds light on the ongoing power dynamics within the Republican Party and the resilience of Democratic leadership.

House Passes Funding Bill: A Democratic Victory

At the outset of the episode, Timothy Snyder, a professor of history at Yale University, outlines the successful passage of the funding bill in the House of Representatives. The vote tally was overwhelmingly in favor, with House Democrats casting all 366 votes for the bill and only 34 Republicans opposing it.

“The House of Representatives voted 366 to 34 tonight for Speaker Mike Johnson's third attempt at a funding bill,” Snyder explains (01:27), highlighting that this decisive vote effectively averted a government shutdown that could have severely impacted federal workers and holiday plans. President Biden's administration expressed strong support for the legislation, emphasizing the continuation of vital government services and disaster assistance.

Republican Dysfunction and the “Mump Regime”

Snyder attributes the bill's passage to "Republican incompetence and Republican dysfunction," criticizing the party's inability to govern effectively. He points out that not a single House Democrat voted against the bill, while 34 Republicans defied their party lines by opposing it. This defiance included opposition to provisions favored by both Trump and Musk.

“The Democratic process of functional, normal governance was saved today by Republican incompetence and Republican dysfunction,” Snyder asserts (01:37). He further introduces the term “mump regime” to describe the emerging Republican leadership influenced heavily by Musk and Trump. Snyder elaborates on this concept with co-author Michael McFaul, discussing how this regime prioritizes personal agendas over effective governance.

“We've coined the term 'mump regime' to encapsulate this new dynamic where the elected officials are overshadowed by wealthy, unelected influencers,” Snyder remarks (03:50).

Elon Musk’s Political Influence

A significant portion of the discussion centers on Elon Musk’s growing influence in politics. Snyder critiques Musk's meddling, particularly his attempt to dictate the terms of the funding bill. Musk's dissatisfaction with the exclusion of a debt ceiling suspension—Trump's main demand—led him to publicly undermine the bill.

“Elon Musk, Donald Trump, shutdown has been averted... but Musk is not happy that the spending bill doesn't include the debt ceiling,” Snyder notes (02:40). He criticizes Musk for overstepping his role as a private citizen and exerting undue influence over legislative processes.

Michael McFaul expands on this, highlighting Musk's impact not just domestically but internationally. His endorsement of Germany's far-right Alternative for Germany (AfD) party and potential political donations in the UK exemplify Musk's ambition to shape global politics.

“Elon Musk has one of the largest platforms in the world where he's the largest influencer. And so what he says goes across borders,” McFaul states (32:27).

Interviews with Political Leaders

The episode features insightful interviews with key Democratic figures, including Congresswoman Sarah Jacobs of California and Congresswoman Gwen Moore of Wisconsin. Both emphasize the Democrats' strategic handling of the funding bill and advocate for continued bipartisan cooperation to maintain government functionality.

Sarah Jacobs on the Funding Bill and Republican Challenges

Congresswoman Sarah Jacobs commends the bipartisan effort to pass the funding bill but laments Musk and Trump’s disruptive tactics.

“We were able to get, not only to keep the government open, but also really important disaster funding for communities all across the country,” Jacobs explains (18:52). She underscores the Democrats' commitment to their constituents, highlighting allocations like $500 million for child care.

Jacobs also criticizes the removal of provisions that would have restricted technology transfers to China, pointing out the implications for Musk's business interests.

“One of the things that was taken out of the original agreement... that never got back into the deal,” she remarks (21:37), indicating GOP priorities over national interests.

Gwen Moore on Fiscal Responsibility and Democratic Stewardship

Congresswoman Gwen Moore addresses the fiscal policies of both parties, contrasting Democratic efforts to reduce deficits with Republican tax cuts favoring the wealthy.

“Every time a Republican president comes into office, the one thing we can count on Republicans to do is to pass a massive tax cut for wealthy Americans and in the process stick working-class Americans with the bill,” Moore states (38:26). She applauds Democratic initiatives like the Inflation Reduction Act and criticizes Republican fiscal strategies that exacerbate economic inequality.

Moore emphasizes the importance of constructive opposition and presenting viable alternatives to ensure sustained economic growth and social welfare.

“We need to have something else, a third way which is a positive representation of how things could be better than they actually are right now,” she advises (44:49).

The Future of American Governance: Challenges and Hope

Throughout the episode, Snyder and his guests express both concern and cautious optimism about the future of American governance. They highlight the fragile state of democratic norms under the influence of wealthy individuals like Musk and Trump but remain hopeful that Democratic leadership can navigate these challenges.

“The sheer incompetence we've seen in the last 48 hours tells us something. For all the money, for all the power... they couldn't get this small piece of business done easily,” Snyder concludes (08:37). He advocates for Democrats to continue presenting clear, alternative policies and maintaining unity to protect democratic institutions.

Conclusion

In this episode of The Last Word with Lawrence O’Donnell, listeners gain a comprehensive analysis of the recent House funding bill passage, the disruptive influence of figures like Donald Trump and Elon Musk, and the strategic responses from Democratic leaders. The discussion underscores the critical state of American politics, emphasizing the need for effective governance and resilient democratic practices in the face of external and internal challenges.

Notable Quotes

• “The House of Representatives voted 366 to 34 tonight for Speaker Mike Johnson's third attempt at a funding bill.” — Timothy Snyder (01:27)

• “The Democratic process of functional, normal governance was saved today by Republican incompetence and Republican dysfunction.” — Timothy Snyder (01:37)

• “Elon Musk has one of the largest platforms in the world where he's the largest influencer. And so what he says goes across borders.” — Michael McFaul (32:27)

• “We were able to get, not only to keep the government open, but also really important disaster funding for communities all across the country.” — Sarah Jacobs (18:52)

• “Every time a Republican president comes into office, the one thing we can count on Republicans to do is to pass a massive tax cut for wealthy Americans and in the process stick working-class Americans with the bill.” — Gwen Moore (38:26)

This episode provides an in-depth look at the intersection of politics, power, and governance in contemporary America, offering listeners valuable insights into the ongoing struggles and strategies shaping the nation's future.

Transcript

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[Ally Belshee]

It's time for the Last word with Ally Belshee. Good evening, Ali.

[Timothy Snyder]

You know, we've all been ramping up for whatever happened tonight with the shutdown, so I haven't really given thought to anything else. That owl is what I needed.

[Ally Belshee]

It's what we all need.

[Timothy Snyder]

That's what we all insisted.

[Ally Belshee]

I insisted it be in the program.

[Timothy Snyder]

Thank you, my friend. I walked by to say hello to you. I think we were busy doing a show, but I'm seeing you in real life for so long that we're just down the road from each other, so I thought I'd wave. Nice to see you. You have yourself an amazing weekend.

[Ally Belshee]

See you next week, buddy. Have a great show.

[Timothy Snyder]

Well, the Elon Musk Donald Trump shutdown has been averted, and once again, Democrats have saved the day. And now America can enjoy the holiday season without the specter of a government shutdown looming over their travel plans or for federal workers, their paychecks. The House of Representatives voted 366 to 34 tonight for Speaker Mike Johnson's third attempt at a funding bill. Now, we are currently waiting for the Senate to vote. Majority Leader Chuck Schumer is confident that this will pass, and President Biden is expected to sign it ahead of today's House vote. The White House released this statement saying, quote, president Biden supports moving this legislation forward and ensuring that the vital services the government provides for hardworking Americans, from issuing Social Security checks to processing benefits for veterans, can continue, as well as to grant assistance for communities that were impacted by devastating hurricanes. The Democratic process of functional, normal governance was saved today by Republican incompetence and Republican dysfunction. Republicans have proven time and time in recent memory that they simply can't govern. Not a single House Democrat voted against the bill. However, 34 Republicans voted against their own bill, against Elon Musk, and against Donald Trump. Again, Donald Trump made just one demand, a debt ceiling suspension. Republicans ignored him. Today, Republicans stripped Donald Trump's provision from the funding bill after Trump had threatened to primary any Republican who voted against the bill and 170 Republicans in the House defied him anyway. Donald Trump has yet to make a statement about today's vote, but Semaforce congressional bureau chief reports, quote, trump is not happy that the spending bill doesn't include the debt ceiling, according to a person who spoke with him this afternoon. Not clear that he'll publicly try to stop the bill in the Senate. But Trump's not thrilled that the bill doesn't contain his main Ask Elon Musk, who's smart enough to not want to be a loser, quickly pivoted to pretending that this was in fact a win. Quote, the speaker did a good job here given the circumstances. It went from a bill that weighed pounds to a bill that weighed ounces. Ball should now be in the Dem court, end quote. Because weighing the size of bills is actually what's important in governance. After the vote, Mike Johnson revealed that Elon Musk, an unelected, wannabe bureaucrat billionaire, is not just Trump's babysitter.

[Michael McFaul]

Elon Musk and I talked within about an hour ago and we talked about the extraordinary challenges of this job. And I said, hey, you want to be speaker of the House?

[Timothy Snyder]

I don't know.

[Michael McFaul]

He said, this may be the hardest job in the world. I think it is, but we're going to get through this.

[Timothy Snyder]

Just stop for a moment and imagine that conversation. Quote, we talked about the extraordinary challenges, end quote. We don't have enough votes. That's the extraordinary challenge. It's math, and it's not hard math. It's just counting. You can do it on the calculator on your phone. Exactly two weeks from today, we will find out whether or not Mike Johnson can hold on to the hardest job in the world when Republicans vote for their speaker. Remember last time that happened? Some Republicans like Marjorie Taylor Greene and Rand Paul have floated the idea that you just heard Johnson refer to Elon Musk for speaker today. The lead Democrat on the House Appropriations Committee, Rosa DeLauro, said this about Elon Musk's outsized influence over the Republican Party at The behest of the world's richest man who no one voted for. The United States Congress has been thrown into pandemonium. It leads you to the question of who is in charge. I thought that there was a Republican majority in this body, not a President Musk majority. The events of the last 48 hours were on its face about keeping the government open. But it also showed us something about the incoming Musk Trump Republic Republican regime, which Timothy Snyder has nicknamed the mump regime. Professor Snyder writes how to call this thing that is coming to America in a month. Administration seems inaccurate since it assumes that the elected president just administers a government for four years, whereas Trump clearly wants to rule indefinitely. It also seems wrong, since the people he appointed will chiefly break things rather than run them, and so regime rather than administration. But whose? It's not Trump's. It's funny to say President Musk, but that's not quite right. We face a situation in which the officeholder has less power than the money bag. In another post, I called this Trumpo Moscovia. But perhaps Musk's name should really come first before Trump's. And so mump the mump regime. We've seen from the mump regime their impulses, the ignorance about how government works, and in the end, weakness in terms of forcing Republicans to do their bidding raises the responsibility that the best defense of normal, functioning democratic government might be that the other side is simply too incompetent to execute on its dark vision for America. Joining us now is Timothy Snyder, professor of history at Yale University. He's the author of the New York Times bestsellers on freedom and on tyranny. His new substack essay is titled the Mump Regime. Professor, good to see you. Thank you for being with us. And I think this is a crucial point. It's not sort of frivolous and light. It's a descriptor of what's actually going on here. The idea that a couple of mornings ago, Elon Musk got up and tweeted that Republicans should not pass this very important piece of legislation, the only constitutional piece of legislation they are compelled to pass because he didn't feel like it. No one's clear on why he didn't feel like it or what his beef was, but he says something and they do his bidding. It's very strange.

[Michael McFaul]

Yeah, I mean, it's. It's very strange compared to what we expect or what's written in the Constitution or for that matter, who Americans voted for. No American voted for. For Mr. Musk, it's not strange, given the financial structure that we're in, where we have this, we have someone who plays a rich person on TV, which is Mr. Trump, who is being carried along by someone who is in fact the richest man in the world, and that's Mr. Musk. Mr. Trump has real debts and Mr. Musk has real money. And whatever threats Trump can issue, whether those are to primary somebody or whether those are lawsuits against media, those will be financed by Mr. Musk. So the debts are not just in the past. The debts are also going towards the future. So Musk is actually the stronger figure here. But at the same time, as you suggest, this is also a sign of conflict between the two men and also a sign that Congress may realize that, that they want to, they want the United States to continue to exist as a republic, which is kind of the basic line that we're talking about here.

[Timothy Snyder]

So there's two things at play here that might actually save democracy. One is the last point you just made that there are some people, some Republicans in Congress who would like the United States to continue to operate as a republic. And the, and the idea that the, the sheer incompetence we've seen in the last 48 hours tells us something. For all the money, for all the power, for all the control of three houses, three parts of the government that the Republicans will, will have, they couldn't get this small piece of business done easily.

[Michael McFaul]

Yeah, I mean, business is a crucial word there. People say let's run government like a business, but you know, first of all, business doesn't have a whole bunch of different CEOs with different interests, which is what the Cabinet is. And, and second of all, you don't actually want the government to be like a business. You want the government to govern so that businesses and non governmental organizations and citizens can have normal lives. What we've got now is we've got someone who is used to having his will just be fulfilled, whatever that might, to second moment to moment, who's now going to try to work that black magic on the federal government. And I think this is just a hint, just a whiff of the way it's going to go for the next four years.

[Timothy Snyder]

So I guess the question lasts. I guess the question is if there's an element of incompetence at play here, which we've definitely seen in the last 48 hours or so, is that good or bad? In other words, bad for the country on, on the, on the surface. But given that some of the agenda here seems to be to dismantle some of our democratic norms and practices. I'm almost hopeful that, wow, if this is what you guys have, this is the best you have.

[Michael McFaul]

Democracy may survive only if people move into that gap. Right. Because I think the most optimistic version is that there are people here who want to destroy the government for different reasons and in different ways. You have the people who want to break it because they want to pick up the pieces, which is Musk. You have people who want to change it so they can lock up political opponents, and that's Patel and Trump. And these interests don't always align, align, and they're not always going to align. But Democrats and people who want to live in a democracy can't just stand back and watch that. They have to name it, they have to give it concepts, and they have to talk constantly about how it could be better.

[Hakeem Jeffries]

Right.

[Michael McFaul]

I personally think there should be some kind of alternative cabinet, an alternative government, people who talk about what they would be doing if they held these positions. So they're not just talking about catastrophe and averting it.

[Timothy Snyder]

In fact, in the morning, I'm talking to your colleague Joanne Freeman, who makes that point that this might be one thin slice that we should grab from sort parliamentary democracies. The idea that the Democrats are now need to take on the role of the official opposition. For every policy, there needs to be a counter policy, there needs to be an alternative and it needs to be put forward in a productive manner. None of it may pass, but they need to act like this is what governing actually looks like. American people. So you can make a better choice the next time around.

[Michael McFaul]

Yeah, I mean, not only that, but I think actual people should say, well, look, if I were the department, if I were the, if I were Secretary of Transportation or Defense, I would be doing this instead. We need to practice that. Right. Americans need to be reminded if we do have good, responsible people who aren't going to behave like overgrown children, that we have people who know about the jobs, who have the skills and who care about us. Six months into this thing, this is all going to look a lot more chaotic and worse. And we have to have things to say at that point. They're not just, hey, chaotic and worse. We have to be able to say, it could be a lot better than it is. That's, that's where we'll have to be.

[Timothy Snyder]

One of the things we're going to talk about in a moment is the affinity that, that Elon Musk seems to have for, for Russia. This is a serious, a lot of These things that this administration, the regime does can be undone and will be undone over time. This is a pretty problematic one. The position that this administration and this government might take toward Russia and Ukraine. This is obviously an area of your specialty. That one worries me a little bit more, because there could be things that could happen there that are going to be very, very hard to undo in two and four years.

[Michael McFaul]

Yeah, I mean, it's a crucial bit of wisdom that we have all the way from the ancient Greeks forward that oligarchs in one country are going to have more in common with oligarchs in another country than they are with their own people. And on Russia, we see that there are these resemblances, affinities, and also friendly relationships among precisely Musk and Putin and Trump. And those three men tend to like the same foreign politicians. When Musk says he likes the German far right, it's the same German far right that Putin wants. And you're absolutely right. At the moment, Ukraine is fighting a terrible, costly war, and in fighting it, it's holding back all kinds of terrible things. If we treat that war frivolously, if we put American power on Russia's side, which is what Musk clearly wants to do and Trump sometimes hints he wants to do, we will be unleashing terrible things around the world with respect to nuclear weapons, with respect to China, with respect to stability generally. So you're right. This is not one we can just laugh our way through. And if we let the Ukrainians lose, there's no coming back from that.

[Timothy Snyder]

Professor, at what point do people who validly had concerns about their pocketbook, about the price of eggs, about inflation, These are valid concerns. You cannot discount the fact that people, whether they made the right electoral choice or not, had those concerns. At what point does it dawn on some people that, but I didn't vote for the chaos. I didn't vote for the mump regime. I didn't vote for rfk, endangering my water supply and my milk supply and the clean air. Where does that happen? Is it just the chaos that drives people to say, this wasn't what I wanted, or are these really clear examples that I voted for something else? I didn't vote for this.

[Michael McFaul]

Yeah, I think some folks will go the way you're talking about, but other people will say, even if they didn't vote for exactly this, they'll say, I'm enjoying this. I'm enjoying the chaos, I'm enjoying the spectacle. I'm enjoying other people watching other people be humiliated. I'm enjoying watching other people suffer. I'm afraid there will be that too. And so once again, the important thing is, is to have something else, a third way which is a positive representation of how things could be better than they actually are. So it's up to us in the media, it's up to us in the public sphere to not just to criticize, but to talk about how things could be better, might have been better, could yet still be better than they are right now.

[Timothy Snyder]

I think that's a great idea. Quite happy to invest in that for the next couple of years or so. Professor, good to see you as always. The Yale University history professor Timothy Sn Are once again giving up some roadmap and some ideas about how we actually get out of the situation that we're in. All right, coming up, take a quick look at the Senate floor here. Not a ton going on right now. We are waiting for the Senate to pass this funding bill that will keep the government open. We were just talking to Tim Snyder about what we learned about the Musk Trump Republican regime and what did we learn about how Democrats are going to approach that regime. That's coming up next. But we'll keep a very close eye on the Senate and let you know when that bill passes. Ryan Reynolds here for Mint Mobile. You know, one of the perks about having four kids that you know about is actually getting a direct line to the big man up north. And this year he wants you to know the best gift that you can give someone is the gift of Mint Mobile's Unlimited Wireless for $15 a month. Now you don't even need to wrap it. Give it a [e-mail] Switch $45 upfront.

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[Hakeem Jeffries]

House Democrats have successfully stopped extreme MAGA Republicans from shutting down the government, crashing the economy and hurting working class Americans all across the land. House Democrats have successfully stopped the billionaire boys club which wanted a $4 trillion blank check by suspending the debt ceiling.

[Timothy Snyder]

That was leader Jeffries after House Democrats helped Republicans pass a funding bill to avoid a government shutdown. We're watching live pictures now of the United States Senate floor where Sen. Senators are expected to vote soon on that bill. The Senate is still working toward a deal on the timing of that vote, but NBC News reports they believe the vote will happen before midnight. If it doesn't, it could be that there is some sort of a technical shutdown of the government that one hopes is resolved within a matter of hours. But we'll stay on top of that for you. Joining us now is the Democratic Congresswoman Sarah Jacobs of California. She's a member of the House Foreign affairs and Armed Services Committee. Congresswoman, good to see you with us this evening. I don't know if you have any more information than we have right now. The Republicans, Democrats in the Senate do say they expect this should be wrapped up. There are few things that they're trying to work through.

[Sarah Jacobs]

Yep. I think we are expecting that they will vote on the continuing resolution tonight and you know, we will be able to keep the government open.

[Timothy Snyder]

I was fascinated by Mike Johnson who is not a guy who goes up against Donald Trump, ever works in lockstep with Donald Trump about his relating the conversation that he had with Elon Musk and hour ago or so when he was, when he was mentioning that that that would even be a thing that the speaker of the United States House has to consult with a bazillionaire to sort of get his okay and his approval, an unelected guy on how the work of the United States Congress in service of the people of America should go.

[Sarah Jacobs]

I mean it's truly wild. We had a bipartisan agreement on how to keep the government open, make sure we get this disaster funding to communities who need it, like my community in San Diego were able to get some funding for cross border pollution issues that we're having. And at the very last minute Elon Musk decided he didn't like the deal. He started tweeting, and all of a sudden we were thrown into chaos. I'm not looking forward to the next couple of years of governance by tweet. And I don't think that's how we should be doing business. We should have our elected leaders be able to make deals with each other and then be able to actually follow through on the agreements that they make, which clearly Mike Johnson is now incapable of doing, as he's shown.

[Timothy Snyder]

Yeah, we used to have government by tweet. And then what we didn't realize is that there's another entity in here. At least the guy who was tweeting, for better or for worse, had been elected the President of the United States. Now we got a guy who seems to be the President, the United States boss, who is. We don't know what the motivations are because he didn't. He didn't campaign on his policies. He campaigned for someone else. This becomes a little difficult. Tim Snyder and I were just talking about the role that Democrats may need to take play in, in this new Congress now. And that is, I don't know, a shadow cabinet, a. An alternative, an idea of, here's what this has to look like so that you can. The American people can see the contrast between what Republicans are, the chaos that Republicans are committing, and the alternative.

[Sarah Jacobs]

Well, I think that's exactly right. And, you know, I don't want to give the Republican conference too much credit, but I do think it's very telling that even with the full weight of Elon Musk and Donald Trump, 38 Republicans voted the bill that Donald Trump wanted yesterday. And, you know, while we aren't sure about Elon Musk's motivations, one of the things that was taken out of the original agreement and never made it back in was this provision that didn't allow or, you know, put stipulations on outbound technology transfer and investments to China. And we know that's something that would have really impacted Musk's business. And I think it's telling that that was one of the things that he particularly highlighted to take out and that never got back into the deal.

[Timothy Snyder]

Let me ask you, when you said you don't want to give Republicans too much credit, I actually think this might be a real advantage for Americans that democracy might get saved by the fact that they're not looking all that organized. They've had a long time to get organized, and then now they've got. They're going into a Congress where they will have control of both Houses and the White House, you'd think they would be more organized on things like this, on these votes, on figuring it out. I'm almost hopeful that, to wonder that, that this act is no tighter than it was last time around.

[Sarah Jacobs]

You know, I think we can hope that that's true. I think we've seen this time it was clearly not a well oiled machine, not well organized. And you saw them all fighting with themselves. And I think once again, we've seen that Democrats had to be the adults in the room and come step forward and help make sure that we kept the government open and we stand ready to continue, you know, moving forward in a bipartisan way. But what, what needs to be clear is that we're not willing to sell out our constituents or our values in order to do that. And that if they want or if they need Democratic votes to move things forward, as they have done this entire term, then they're really going to need to come to the table and have a conversation with us about what that means.

[Timothy Snyder]

And how does that feel inside the Democratic caucus? What's the feeling? I remember when There were the McCarthy votes for speaker, the 15 votes, and Democrats were stalwart and steadfast, and all of those opportunities where Leader Jeffrey says we're not here to necessarily help them do their bidding, but if they'd like certain things done in the interest of the American people, we will, we will make ourselves available for consultation. That happened here. Right? There was, there was a breakdown in communication for about 24 hours in which Republicans were not consulting with Democrats. And then Leader Jeffries announced earlier today, the lines of communication are back open. Tell me what it feels like on the Democratic side of this equation.

[Sarah Jacobs]

You know, I think that we feel right now that we got a real win for the American people. Right. We stood strong. We did not let the Republicans and Elon Musk and Donald Trump hold hostage the federal government in order to get this lifting of the debt ceilings, that they could then pass their huge tax cuts for the wealthy and big corporations while selling out everyday people with Social Security cuts. And we were able to get, not only to keep the government open, but also really important disaster funding for communities all across the country. And what I'm really excited about is $500 million for child care, which is going to be huge for families. But we know we were only able to do that because we stayed united behind Hakeem Jeffries and we gave him the leverage that he needed to know that when he made a deal, we would all be behind him. But until he made a deal, we would wait and we would trust in our leadership.

[Timothy Snyder]

I want to just mention to our audience that Chuck Schumer has gone to the Senate floor now. So things are starting to happen. You are. You serve on the House Armed Services Committee. The interesting development that the Senate, the Senate Armed Services Committee has asked for Pete Hegseth's FBI report. Usually this quote from Politico. It says at least a dozen senators are pushing to see the FBI background check on Pete Hegseth. The Senate Armed Services Committee usually limits access to these types of background checks to its two lead senators. That's generally the lead Republican and the lead Democrat. But pressure is building from both Democrats and Republicans to provide more lawmakers with the ongoing report whose contents could determine whether Hegseth makes it to the Pentagon. Again, this is an instance where a whole bunch of Republicans are prepared to roll over for the mump regime, but some are not. Some are saying, hold on, there might be some bridges that are too far, and Pete Hegseth might be one of them.

[Sarah Jacobs]

Yeah, look, I represent San Diego, the country's biggest military community. And so I feel very strongly that these senators should be doing the full range of their advise and consent job. And that involves looking into these FBI reports. That involves asking really tough questions of this man who I have deep concerns about, based on his public sense around women in the military, LGBTQ plus folks in the military, his, you know, history of alleged sexual misconduct. These things are all really scary when it comes to the military and all the work we've done in a bipartisan way to address military sexual assault, to address quality of life for service members and their families. And I hope that senators from both parties do their real due diligence and, you know, ask these tough questions before they just rubber stamp something that Donald Trump wants.

[Timothy Snyder]

Congresswoman Sarah Jacobs, good to see you. Thank you for being with us this evening. Sarah Jacobs is the representative for California's 51st district. Coming up, Elon Musk hasn't just set his sights on American politics to make a mess of now. He's endorsing Germany's far right party ahead of a German election, a party that is deeply anti immigrant and very pro Putin. Exactly what is Elon Musk up to? That's next. Next, Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. With the price of just about everything going up during inflation, we thought we'd bring our prices down. So to help us, we brought in a reverse auctioneer, which is apparently a thing Mint Mobile Unlimited, Premium wireless. Everybody get 30? 30 better get 30 better to get.

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[Timothy Snyder]

Lest you think that Elon Musk's habit of mucking about in politics is purely an American fascination for him, allow me to point out this news today from the New York Times. Quote Elon Musk, the world's richest man and a closest adviser to President Elect Donald J. Trump, on Friday endorsed Germany's Far Right Party, a group with ties to neo Nazis whose youth wing has been classified as a confirmed extremist by German domestic intelligence. Only the AfD can save Germany, Mr. Musk posted to X, referring to the anti immigrant party the Alternative for Germany by its German initials. In doing so, he's wading into German politics in a moment of acute turmoil. The German government recently collapsed, resulting in early elections which are planned for next year, end quote. After Musk endorsed Germany's far right party, the Guardian reported, quote, the German Health Minister Karl Lauterbach called Musk's decision to comment on the German political debate weeks before the snap election undignified and highly problematic. At a press conference in Berlin, Germany, the Chancellor Olaf Scholz responded indirectly to the Elon Musk post, saying, quote, we have freedom of speech here. That also applies to multimillionaires. Freedom of speech also means that you're able to say things that aren't right and do not contain good political advice, end quote, end quote. There's more to this story. Germany's AfD party has shown a strong desire to get on Vladimir Putin's good side. German media outlet Deutsche well notes that the far right alternative for Germany's party is calling for an end to German military aid for Ukraine. When Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy appealed to the German Bundestag in June 2024 for more support for his country, a large number of AFD lawmakers left the building, end quote. The report continues, quote, AfD politician Bjorn Hawk offered a favorable view of Russia under Putin today. Russia, whether the mainstream media wants to hear it or not, is a country that hopes it could possibly be a pioneer for a world of free and sovereign states without hegemonic influen influence, end quote. So we have Elon Musk, an unelected billionaire who seems to wield considerable influence over a lot of elected U.S. officials advocating for a German political party that wants to end funding to Ukraine and calls Russia a potential, quote, pioneer for a world of free and sovereign states, end quote. That's awfully rich. Today, Vladimir Putin's military fired eight ballistic missiles on Kyiv a day after Putin claimed that his troops were winning on the battlefield and that his maximalist goals to seek seize more territory in Ukraine were unchanged. One person was killed and at least 12 were injured. One intercepted missile fell on a business center, smashing its top floor and setting fire to cars parked in the street below. The complex was home to superhumans, a prosthetics and rehabilitation center for wounded Ukrainian soldiers. Quite the opposite of what you'd expect from a pioneer for world of free and sovereign states, end quote. Meanwhile, in the uk, the Wall Street Journal reports there's growing alarm among Britain's political establishment that Musk, who has been sharply critical of Prime Minister Keir Starmer, may radically alter the UK's electoral landscape by donating millions of dollars to Reform UK, a populist upstart party. Britain's government says it wants to change the law to prevent foreigners from making outsized political donations. So just what is Elon Musk up to here? To help us answer that question, I'm joined now by Michael McFaul. He's a former United States Ambassador to Russia. He's now a professor of International studies at Stanford University and an MSNBC international affairs analyst. Ambassador McFaul, good to see you again. Thank you for being with us. Lots to unpack here, including the Fact that in the UK they can actually figure out laws. Lots of countries have laws that that entirely limit the influence. Some countries say if you're a foreign national, there's no way you can donate money at all. So sounds like some of this is at least fixable now that we know that Elon Musk seems to want to use his money to influence lots of people's elections.

[Unknown Guest]

Well, some of it's fixable, but some of it's not because he has one of the largest platforms in the world where he's the largest influencer. And so what he says goes across borders. And some countries do try to limit that, including our own from time to time. And Romania just tried to limit that because of what the Russians did in their presidential elections. But this is pretty unprecedented that you have somebody with his stature giving his opinions about German electoral politics. And let's just set aside, just for a moment that of course, I think it's a really bad idea personally to endorse this far right extremist party. And I hope maybe Mr. Musk hasn't really looked closely at what they believe. That's what some other polite German MPs were saying, but okay, we disagree on that. Then there's the second piece about sovereignty that you were just talking about. Wait a minute. The MAGA guys are all about sovereignty, Right?

[Timothy Snyder]

Right.

[Unknown Guest]

Remember all the trouble that the Ukrainian ambassador got into because she took the democratically elected president of Ukraine to an arms factory in Pennsylvania? The speaker called for her resignation, saying that that was interference in our elections, but when we do it in their countries, it's okay. But the biggest problem I have with this is which foreign policy. It's just like you're talking about on the domestic side. Is this Trump's foreign policy? Did he. You know, when I worked in the government, we would clear statements through a process with the State Department, with the National Security Council, so that we had a unified statement about Obama's foreign policy. That's when I worked in the government here. It's very unclear. Is he speaking for Mr. Trump? Is he speaking for a Secretary of state? That hasn't been confirmed. That is deeply damaging.

[Timothy Snyder]

It's confusing for the ambassador. I mean, there are lots of people who speak for the government. Who's he speaking for? I want to just play for you what Senator Chris Murphy had to say about this particular party because it is interesting to understand. Maybe you're right. Maybe Elon Musk doesn't fully understand what they do. Let's listen to what Chris Murphy had to say about it? AFD is essentially the neo Nazi party in Germany. They exist to try to rehabilitate the image of the Nazi party. And what we know is that what Elon Musk thinks tends to eventually be what the President United States thinks. And if the United States takes an official position in favor of neo Nazis in Germany, I mean, it is absolutely catastrophic, absolutely catastrophic for the people of Germany, for Europe, and ultimately for the United States. And so this is the point you're making, that do we know that Elon Musk knows what they do and is okay with that and has signed off with the President of the United States, or is it the United States, the President United States, the newly elected President of the United States, who has not taken office yet. Donald Trump, does he sign off, Get Elon Musk sign off on these things. This is a very strange way to conduct foreign policy. Policy.

[Unknown Guest]

Strange is a kind word. It's a horrific way to conduct foreign policy. One because of the confusion. Right. What is the actual Trump policy? And I hate to sound so trite, but there used to be a time in our government, I was part of the transition in 2008. We used to have this norm about one president at a time that's been thrown out the window. Right. But secondly, think about the contradiction here. President elect Trump. Trump is talking about how we need the Europeans to do more, we want our allies to spend more. He's even talking about calling for 5% of GDP. This is a party that doesn't wanna spend more, that's pro Russian, that's anti American. And if they become stronger in Germany, that will weaken the ability of the German government to do exactly what Donald Trump. President elect Trump. Trump was just talking about 24 hours ago. And this is the confusion you have when you. When you don't have one policy. And at some point, Elon Musk has to decide does he want to be a private citizen or does he want to be in the Trump administration? You can't have it both ways. That will not work.

[Sarah Jacobs]

Yeah.

[Timothy Snyder]

And we're headed for global catastrophe if we don't straighten this out fairly soon. Ambassador, good to see you as always. Thank you. Former United States ambassador, Ambassador to Russia, Michael McFaul. All right, just want to give you an update on the funding bill. The Senate. There's some action now in the Senate chamber. The Senate still has plans to vote and pass the government funding bill before the midnight deadline and thus averting a government shutdown. We have an update on one of the most outrageous cuts to the House funding bill funding for pediatric cancer. Last hour, the Senate passed the Gabriella Miller act to fund pediatric cancer research unanimously. And that is now headed to President Biden's desk. Coming up, there is a pattern when it comes to fiscal responsibility and it isn't Democrats messing it up. That's next. Tonight, Hakeem Jeffries and House Democrats did what the Democrats do in the end, they did the right thing for the country in the process and they saved the Republican speaker again. Mike Johnson had no way out of this thing. We were headed for an Elon Musk induced shutdown from which, by the way, the Republican House would have had no exit since all spending bills are constitutionally required to start in the House. But Democrats weren't willing to see the government shut down and the country thrown into chaos over the holidays. Democrats cleaning up Republican messes isn't just limited to these now recurring shutdown showdowns. It's about the entire stewardship of the country and the economy. One party makes a mess of it, one party cleans it up. Leader Jeffries offered this recent history lesson on the House floor.

[Hakeem Jeffries]

Every time a Republican president comes into office, the one thing we can count on Republicans to do is to pass a massive tax cut for wealthy Americans and in the process stick working class Americans with the bill. Bill Clinton comes to office, inherits a significant deficit and under his stewardship, President Clinton turns a deficit into a surplus and passes that surplus to President George W. Bush. President Obama comes in and inherits a deficit from a Republican president of $1.5 trillion as well as the Great Recession. And working under the leadership of President Obama, Democrats in the House and the Senate get the situation turned around and over an eight year period of time reduce the deficit it by a trillion dollars. And then Donald Trump comes to office. The Republicans turn their attention to the GOP tax scam where 83% of the benefits went to the wealthiest 1%. In our nation's 248 year history, 25% of our nation's debt was accumulated during the four years of the former president, 25%. How dare you lecture America about fiscal responsibility ever. And then President Biden comes to office, gets big things done for the American people on infrastructure, on the Chips and science act, standing up a clean energy economy, rescuing America from a once in a century pandemic, gets all of these big things done, partnering with House Democrats and Senate Democrats and in the process, in his first two years, reduces the deficit by $1.7 trillion. And so we see a very clear pattern.

[Timothy Snyder]

Joining us now is The Democratic Congresswoman, Gwen Moore of Wisconsin. She's a member of the House Ways and Means Committee and the Joint Economic Committee. Congressman, nice to see you. Thank you for being with us. That was a very helpful lesson. That was a very helpful. As an economics guy, it was interesting to hear it from an economics perspective. But it's almost, I think it's bigger than that. What we saw in the last 48 hours is bigger than just dealing with stewardship of the economy. It's become about dealing with the stewardship of governance right now, which Republicans elected Republicans already had a problem with in the last couple of years. And now with Elon Musk, who knows?

[Gwen Moore]

Who knows? Ali, it's a great question. To start this segment, you know, we were very, very concerned and we still are very concerned about this non elect, non citizen immigrant basically running the presidency. I mean, he came in and as your earlier guest pointed out, you know, one of the first things that he did is he took out the provision that would have restricted, you know, a lot of activity with the Chinese around tech industries. And who is that going to benefit? Elon Musk. Musk. I had the opportunity to talk to one of your earlier guests on MSNBC to talk about how he had taken out even the pediatric cancer research and because of the activism of Nancy Goodman, was able to get that back and sort of hotlined over in the Senate. And to have Donald Trump say that he wants the debt limit raised beyond his presidential term is really very telling in terms of what they want to do. They want to pass this irresponsible tax scam, as leader Jeffries called it, something that if you make under $100,000 a year, I guarantee you it's not going to help your feeling of financial insecurity. You know, people, 52% of Americans said that they voted for Donald, you know, that they voted for Donald Trump because they felt insecur. And I can guarantee you that putting 4.6 trillion more dollars onto the credit card with passing this tax scam and then eliminating the debt ceiling so that maybe Donald Trump could lower these corporate tax rates down from 21%, for God's sake, down to 15 and adding another $8 trillion to it for the wealthiest people is not going to help you at all. You're sitting and you need a crown. God, you know, it cost you $1,800. It's going to have to go on your credit card for 20% because you can't depend on this tax scam to provide you with any additional money.

[Timothy Snyder]

Right? And guys, Like Elon Musk is a naturalized U.S. citizen, but he, but it does seem that this, this lesson about how the debt and the deficit, the deficit and then the debt get increased. There's still this myth, there's this mythology that Elon Musk and Vivek Ramaswamy are perpetuating that it's people who are somehow scamming the system. It's entitlements that people get that are costing more. I think Leader Jeffries did a remarkable job of pointing out that, no, actually it's mostly tax cuts and, or wars that do this. It's not regular people. If you're looking to trim fat from the government or you're looking to get more revenue than you spend, spend. There are different ways to do this, but it always seems to land with billionaires explaining to people who are struggling to make it paycheck to paycheck how they need to struggle more, they need to work harder. Musk has said very clearly, it's going to hurt a whole bunch of people. It might be a recession, it's going to hurt you, but it'll be good overall.

[Gwen Moore]

Exactly. And it just all depends on what you see as growth. I mean, if you see CEOs getting additional pay and the stockholders getting much more money and being able to do stock buybacks and having a great stock market as being an indicator of how well your economy is doing, then so be it. I mean, we've gotten reports here recently about how the economy has done better in the third quarter. Well, yeah, we've had some wars, but also we're beginning to see Joe Biden's investments really pay off with the inflation Reduction Act. We got Republicans writing letters to their leadership saying, you know, wait a minute now, don't cut back on these EV investments because they're really helping the country. Unlike the tax cuts.

[Timothy Snyder]

Yeah, 3.1% third quarter growth, annual growth was, was just reported. So yeah, I mean, there are facts and there are those who don't want to deal with facts. Representative, good to see you as always. Congressman Gwen Moore joining us this evening. We'll be right back. Where has this hour gone? It's good to be back with you. Quick programming note. Tomorrow's meeting of the Belshi Band Book Club features a global bestseller and a cultural touchstone. You've seen it. The Girl on the Train by Paula Hopkins. It's one of the most read psychological thrillers of the last decade. It was swept up in a massive book banning effort in Florida this year. I'll be joined by the author of the Girl on the Train, Paula Hawkins. That's coming up on Velshi at 10am I hope you'll join us.

[Ally Belshee]

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