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One moment at a time. Breaking news tonight. Donald Trump accedes to a court order 57 days after the Supreme Court unanimously ordered Donald Trump's administration to facilitate the return of Kilmar Abrego Garcia after he was sent to a Salvadoran prison by mistake, Trump's administration brought him back to the United States, thus ending Trump's game of chicken with the Supreme Court. In the last 57 days, Donald Trump has claimed that returning Abrego Garcia is not what the court ordered ordered him to do. He's claimed the decision was in the hands of El Salvador's president. And today all those excuses were exposed as just that excuses. Because today Donald Trump caved. Tacoed, if you will. Chickening out in this case is a good thing. Trump is not defying a Supreme Court order anymore. At least. We'll have much more on this later in the show, including how the Attorney General, Pam Bondi, is trying desperately to make this taco seem tough and to make it seem like the Democrats were wrong to speak up and demand that the Trump DOJ follow the Constitution and not disappear people to foreign prisons without due process. But it was Democrats like Maryland Senator Chris Van Holland who flew to El Salvador and demanded to see Abrego Garcia, who was then taken out of the notorious terrorist mega prison and moved to a lower security detention facility. And he raised public pressure about it. The Supreme Court in a nine to zero decision, we don't see many of those in a nine to zero decision ordered the Trump administration to facilitate the return of Mr. Abrego Garcia in accordance with his right to due process. Now, if President Trump can ignore the courts, that's a very short road to tyranny. I have made very clear from the start that I'm not vouching for the man, Mr. Abrego Garcia. I am vouching for his rights because if you deny his rights, you put in jeopardy the rights of everybody who resides in the United States of America. We're going to come back to that story very shortly. But today, the conservatives on Trump's Supreme Court granted Elon Musk's so called Department of Government efficiency access to Social Security Administration data, including Social Security numbers, in their quest to find waste, fraud and abuse, which they've largely failed to find so far. The three liberals on the court dissented, with Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson arguing the conservative majority was simply doing Donald Trump's bidding. The government wants to give Doge unfettered access to this personal, non anonymized information right now before the courts have time to assess whether Doge's access is lawful. In essence, the urgency underlying the government stay application is a mere fact that it cannot be bothered to wait for the litigation process to play out before proceeding as it wishes. That sentiment has traditionally been insufficient to justify the kind of extraordinary intervention the government seeks. But once again, this court dons its emergency responder gear, rushes to the scene, and uses its equitable power to fan the flames rather than to extinguish them. Trump's Supreme Court is letting the Musk create a doge, which is a fake government agency that is now not run by Elon Musk, access to your sensitive data. The Washington Post reports the justice has cleared the way for Doge representatives to access the sensitive Social Security Administration data of millions of Americans while litigation on the matter continues. Another example of the Supreme Court granting most of the Trump administration's emergency requests to lift or scale back lower court rulings blocking his initiatives while legal challenges play out. And all this comes as we survey the wreckage of the bruising public battle between Donald Trump and Elon Musk, who Donald Trump just called crazy. Donald Trump all but called Elon Musk crazy again, referring to him in a phone call with ABC News as, quote, the man who's lost his mind. He told Fox News, quote, elon's totally lost it. He told CNN he's got a problem. The poor guy's got a problem. So to recap, this person who in Trump's assessment has lost his mind and has got a problem and is crazy is the very person Donald Trump unleashed with a proverbial chainsaw on the social safety net, on air traffic control, on hurricane and national disaster response, on national parks, on the government of the American people. For his part, Elon Musk was relatively quiet about his fight with Trump today, tweeting instead about his businesses, which was supposedly the whole reason that he was leaving his role with the federal government. Musk saved his attacks today for Trump's ally, Steve Bannon, who is urging Donald Trump to deport Elon Musk, whom he says is in the country illegally. A senior White House official tells NBC News that Donald Trump is now considering selling or giving away the Tesla that he purchased and touted in a spectacle at the White House. Tesla stocks have already lost billions of dollars since Elon Musk's foray into government. Donald Trump could now weaponize government policy against Elon Musk and his companies, with Trump threatening to cut Elon Musk off from the billions of dollars in government contracts from which Musk has benefited. Here's Donald Trump on Air Force One today when asked about those contracts.
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Donald Trump
We'll take a look at everything.
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Political Analyst
I look at everything.
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Donald Trump
He's got a lot of money, he gets a lot of subsidy. So we'll take a look at that. Only if it's fair. Only if it's fair for him and for the country. I would certainly think about it, but it has to be fair.
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News Anchor
So everybody's pulling back a little bit. This is the completely predictable outcome of allowing someone to buy an election. But I guess Donald Trump didn't realize that when Elon Musk spent nearly $300 million during the 2024 election. Shocker. Musk might want something in return. What do they call that in business? Return on your investment. This ridiculous fight escalated because Elon Musk reportedly did not get what he wanted in the Republican budget bill, a bill that he's called a disgusting abomination and is now demanding that Republicans kill. So, depending on how all this plays out, it's possible the most transactional person in the world, Donald Trump, just got out transactioned by Elon Musk. In a new piece today titled the Real Reason for the Trump Musk Feud Is Uglier Than youn Think, Greg Sargent writes, quote, this is really a battle over how comprehensively to screw over poor and working people, largely to the benefit of the wealthy. Trump is actively deceiving his base by pretending those cuts only target fraud. Musk similarly would use the waste, fraud and abuse canard to absolutely annihilate the state if he could. For Trump and Musk alike, the US State provides opportunities for seemingly endless grasping and taking. It's something to manipulate for megalomaniacal ends. They are at odds, but mainly because they merely fall at different places on the same spectrum of impulses. And those impulses all tilt toward the same place, toward making our society a less egalitarian, more unequal, meaner, crueler and much more savage place. End quote. Medicare, Medicare, not Medicaid, is now potentially on the chopping block along with Medicaid as Senate Republicans look to further cut the social safety net, all to pay for tax cuts for the rich. Politico is reporting the idea came up in closed door meetings this week. And crucially, some Republicans believe Donald Trump is on board with touching the program as long as it's limited to waste, fraud and abuse. Polling shows that a majority of Americans are concerned about the impact of Medicaid cuts. 72% are worried that cuts to Medicaid will lead to more adults and children becoming uninsured. 78% of low income adults living in rural areas say they're worried the cuts will have a negative impact on hospitals, nursing homes and other health care providers in their communities. 73% of low income adults, including 53% of Republicans, worry that Medicaid cuts will have a negative impact on their or their families ability to get and pay for health care. But vulnerable Republican senators won't be able to support the bill without facing fierce blowback from voters. We've already seen this in town hall after town hall, so you could say an unintended consequence of the Trump musk war is highlighting the crap that's in this bill, a bill that have some House Republicans already regretting supporting. NBC News reports today that 13 House Republicans who voted for the bill, which only passed by the way, by one vote, quote, sent a letter Friday urging Senate GOP leaders to scale back some of the clean energy cuts. The unusual criticism of their own bill indicates a modicum of regret by the GOP lawmakers, end quote. And there's a push to message against the bill while it's being negotiated in the Senate. Axios reports that two nonpartisan groups are launching a $5 million advertising campaign urging vulnerable Republican Sen. To oppose the GOP's mega budget reconciliation bill. Democrats are mobilizing against the bill that Elon Musk called a disgusting abomination to ensure that if Republicans vote to give more tax cuts to rich people, cutting Medicaid and Medicare and throwing millions off health insurance, then they're going to have to wear that vote as a badge of dishonor in the next election. Joining me now, Rebecca Cook, Democratic congressional candidate in Wisconsin's third District. Rebecca, good to see you again I think it's amazing we're watching this, this back and forth between Donald Trump and Elon Musk and it doesn't really matter who wins, the rest of us lose, American people lose. Elon Musk, I don't really think he cares that much about cutting government. Elon Musk cares that this bill is cutting money that Elon Musk was going to get in Tesla and in Space X.
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Rebecca Cook
No, absolutely. I think this is a battle between the ultra rich. And Elon Musk is always been self interested. And I've seen some Democrats who are working to sort of align with Musk now. But we have to remind ourselves that what's happening right now isn't just like a partisan war. It's a class war about the ultra wealthy and working class people. And that's the kind of background that I come from. And it's really frustrating to see how they're playing politics with people's lives and the way that that's going to impact working families across a district like mine here in Wisconsin. Three.
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News Anchor
Yeah, I mean, take a look at these, these cuts, right? The issue that some Republicans have with this, it hasn't gone far enough because it's going to increase the deficit because of tax cuts that some middle class people will get. But mostly the overwhelming benefit of these tax cuts will go to the wealthy. So that's what we're cutting SNAP for. That's what we're cutting Medicaid for. That's what we're now thinking about cutting Medicare for to pay for almost $5 trillion in tax cuts for the wealthy.
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Rebecca Cook
Absolutely. And well, that's, that's the difference. This administration is being run by oligarchs, people like Donald Trump and Elon Musk. They haven't had to choose between paying their rent or paying their groceries. And regular people, when they go over their budget, they get overdraft fees. This administration seems like they're, you know, not beholden to anyone, especially the American people, that they're just doing what they want. And while they're doing that, they're, they're screwing every day. Americans. And my opponent, Derek Van Orden voted for this bill, voted to cut Medicaid, voted to cut SNAP benefits that even he relied on. And it's going to have serious implications. And I think to your point, what's happening now, the prospective cuts to Medicare and Social Security, these are earned benefits. These are earned benefits by working Americans. And I think that that's what like something that I want to draw attention to is that these are People that have worked for years of their lives, they're not favors. Right, Exactly. And so, you know, personally, I want to expand Medicare to cover vision, dental and hearing the things that deteriorate as folks age. I want to scrap the cap with Social Security. But this administration is working to seek harm in our parents and our grandparents who just want to be able to age with dignity.
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News Anchor
By the way, you come from an area in which you're surrounded by people who work agriculture. Snap cutting snap hurts farmers.
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Rebecca Cook
It's, it's food Cutting snap hurts farmers. And you know, going back to Elon Musk and the things that he's done in his time, as this breakup continues, he cut USAID also hurts American farmers. Also hurts American farmers. And so, you know, it's very short sighted. And I think, you know, farmers aren't planning a couple days in advance or a week in advance. They're planning their crop seasons months in advance. And so the way that this is going to be harming folks, I was just June is Dairy month in Wisconsin. So I'm actually really at Dairy Breakfast in the morning. And I was at West Salem Dairy Days last weekend and I was talking to a woman who told me they just sold their cows last year and that they were focusing more on crop production, but that she was going to take a loss on her beans because of what this new administrative administration was doing between tariffs and cuts to usaid. So stories like this woman, Susan from West Salem are stories that I'm hearing all the time on the campaign trail. And I think that what we're going to see in 2026 are people that are going to answer to what the ultra wealthy has done to working families in a district like mine.
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News Anchor
Rebecca, good to see you again. Thank you for joining us this evening. Rebecca Cook is a congressional candidate in Wisconsin's third District. I want to stay in Wisconsin because this is where all these stories come together for us. Joining me now is Ben Wickler, Wisconsin Democratic Party Chair. Ben, again, this is, I don't care whether Donald Trump and Elon Musk like each other. Like, I just couldn't care less about it. But it is remarkable that Musk has this idea that he thinks this bill is, he's worried about the deficit. Not really sure that Elon Musk's worried about the deficit. I'm worried, I think Elon Musk worried about Elon Musk and Donald Trump's worried about Donald Trump.
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Political Analyst
That's exactly right. And Elon Musk had this fantasy that he could slash a trillion $2 trillion from the federal government. He came in, he's caused the death of hundreds of thousands of people around the world. He's cursed pretty much every American who could have benefited from cancer research, Alzheimer's research, this research that is now being gutted by the federal government because of his Doge chainsaw. And now he's been pushed out because Donald Trump watched him go up in flames in the Wisconsin Supreme Court election. And now they're battling over just they should gut the federal government's protections for regular folks across the country, health care that people rely on, earned benefit programs in order to fund a massive tax cut for the ultra wealthy. Their fight is kind of a smokescreen for the real battle that's going on right now, which is Republicans and their mega billionaire far right allies against the people of the United States of America. And that battle will ultimately be decided by how much the public raises its voice in the next few weeks to pressure Republican senators to back off this monstrosity.
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News Anchor
And it's. There are some Republican senators, senators who are backing off. Ron Johnson is. But not for the right reasons. Although there is one thing that Ron Johnson points out and that Mike, Mike Johnson and others have said. We this, this won't increase the deficit because it'll create such growth that will, will undo the deficit. Ron Johnson points out there's nothing in the bill that suggests that's actually going to happen. So one thing we can agree with him on, it's not really a growth oriented bill.
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Political Analyst
That's exactly right. So that's a broken clock. That's right. Twice a day. Ron Johnson is correct. There's a long history of these promises. The tax cuts for the ultra wealthy will pay for themselves and they never do.
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News Anchor
Remember we used to think about trickle down economics also. Still waiting for it to trickle down.
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Political Analyst
Yeah. They put a TARP underneath the tax cuts for the rich and they just trickle onto the tarp and the folks on top of the tarp roll around on them. For everybody else, this is just a cash grab. It is, it is kicking more than 10 million people off their Medicaid, including people in my state of Wisconsin, Ron Johnson's own constituents. Ron Johnson wants to cut Medicaid even more. It's an even worse idea. But one economic analysis looked at all the cuts to programs that benefit poor and working class people in this country and compared those to the tax cuts for the ultra wealthy and they almost perfectly even themselves out. You could. And all those cuts, I simply do. People get that.
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News Anchor
That's the key thing. Right Everybody sits here and is wondering how it's a struggle how much you can cut out of Medicaid and SNAP and now Medicare. Or you could just not give almost $5 trillion in tax cuts largely to the wealthy. I mean, it's a lot easier than finding little things to cut in Medicaid and Medicare.
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Political Analyst
Yeah, it's, it's very simple. If you want to not do one bad thing, which is to cost tens of thousands of American lives every single year by ripping people off their health insurance, all you have to do is not hand giant piles of money to the wealthiest people in the world. And frankly, the American public doesn't like tax cuts for the elsewhere wealthy or cuts to health care that people rely on. So this would be much more popular if you did neither of those two things. But what this reveals is what the con has been this entire time. Donald Trump did not run a campaign. In fact, he ran a campaign promising not to cut Medicaid. He didn't run a campaign talking about how he would enrich the ultra wealthy. This was a constant game of distraction and attack against, you know, a Democratic campaign that was very clearly on the side of working people. The Trump administration did not want people to understand their goal. But this is their first big bill, their number one legislative priority, just like last time. It is attempts to rip away healthcare from people that need it in order to enrich people that have everything in the world. That's their one goal. That is what the Elon Musk's of the world pour hundreds of millions of dollars into their campaign to get them to do. And the public at this point stands in their way.
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News Anchor
Yeah, it's important to remember a budget is the, is the will, the expression of the will of a particular administration. And that's what the will appears to be. Ben, good to see you as always. Ben Wickler is the Wisconsin Democratic Party chair. Coming up, the latest on tonight's breaking news, which is that the Trump administration has obeyed the Supreme Court's order and returned Kilmar Abrego Garcia to the United States. That's next. Breaking news tonight, 57 days after the Supreme Court unanimously ordered the Trump administration to facilitate the return of Kilmar Abrego Garcia after the Trump administration sent him to a Salvadoran prison by mistake. Trump administration has returned Kilmar Abrego Garcia to the United States.
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Barbara McQuaid
We're here today to announce a major update in an important case. Abrego Garcia has landed in the United States to face justice. On May 21, a grand jury in The Middle District of Tennessee returned a sealed indictment charging Abrego Garcia with alien smuggling and conspiracy to commit alien smuggling in Violation of Title 8 USC 1324. We want to thank President Bukele for agreeing to return Abrego Garcia to the United States.
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News Anchor
Now hear what she said there. May 21st. May 21st was the day that Kilmar Abrigo Garcia was charged with a crime in the United States, even though the Trump administration sent him to a notorious mega prison in el Salvador on March 15th. NBC News details the new charges. Abrego Garcia has been named in an indictment charging him with transporting within the United States people not legally in the country. The two count indictment sealed by a Tennessee court last month, argues that Abrego Garcia participated in a conspiracy over several years to move people from Texas deeper into the country. NBC News has learned. The indictment alleges that from about 2016 to 2025, Abrego Garcia and others conspired to bring migrants illegally to the United States from Guatemala, El Salvador, Honduras, Ecuador and elsewhere, through Mexico and across the Texas Mexico border. Abrego Garcia had his initial appearance at a Nashville, Tennessee federal courthouse this evening. An arraignment and detention hearing has been scheduled for next Friday. He'll remain in custody until then. Senator Chris Van Hollen, the only person in America who had met with Kilmar Abrego Garcia since he was sent to prison until today, posted this. After months of ignoring our constitution, it seems the Trump administration has relented to our demand for compliance with court orders and due process for Kilmar Abrego Garcia. This has never been about the man. It's about his constitutional rights and the rights of all. Earlier tonight on Air Force One, Donald Trump dodged questions on whether he had anything to do with the return of Kilmar Abrego Garcia.
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Political Analyst
Mr. President, did you speak with Bukele.
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News Anchor
Directly to facilitate the return of Abrego Garcia?
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Donald Trump
I don't want to say that, but he's returned.
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News Anchor
I don't want to say anything, but he's returned. That was a yes or no question. I don't want to say. That is not an answer to a yes or no question.
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Donald Trump
He should have been returned. He should have never. He should have never had to be returned. I mean, you take a look at what's happened with him. You take a look at what they found in the grand jury and everywhere else. I thought Pam Bondi did a great job today.
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Michael McFaul
Was this your call to bring him.
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News Anchor
Back to the United States?
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Donald Trump
I don't want to say that again.
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News Anchor
It was a yes or no question. Was it your call as the president of the United States to bring Abrego Garcia back to the United States? Let's remember what Trump's stated position on obeying the Supreme Court order was. Here's Trump. And in an interview with Time magazine on April 21st, 25th, Time says the Supreme Court ruled 9, 0 that you have to bring Kilmar Abrego Garcia back. You haven't done so. Aren't you disobeying the Supreme Court? Trump says, well, that's not why my people what my people told me they didn't say it was. They said it was. The nine to nothing was something entirely different. Time asks, have you asked President Bukele to return him? Trump says I haven't. He said he wouldn't. Time said, did you ask him? Trump says, but I haven't asked him positively. But he said he wouldn't. Crystal clear. Joining US Now, Barbara McQuaid, former U.S. attorney and a law professor at the University of Michigan Law School. She's an MSNBC legal analyst. There's a lot going on in this story, Barbara, but the one thing I want to get to is the administration's brought him back and they've talked about some charges against him and there may be more coming. Who knows? The issue was always about due process. The issue nobody knew Albergo Garcia, he might be guilty of things. He may not be. That's for a court to determine or a procedure to determine whether he gets to stay here.
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Michael McFaul
Yeah, absolutely right, Ellie. I mean, the Fifth Amendment to our Constitution guarantees the right of due process before anyone can be deprived of life, liberty or property. Certainly somebody who is whisked off into a foreign country, into a jail is being denied a liberty interest. And there's no distinction whether you are a US Citizen or a non citizen. If you are physically in the territorial jurisdiction of the United States, you are entitled to constitutional protections, including the due process clause that has been held by prior courts and the Supreme Court as recently as this year in relation to this case, saying that he gets due process, that people who are in removal proceedings, immigrants, are entitled to due process. So that is what the stink has all been about until today.
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News Anchor
So this is important because as a prosecutor, you have got to stand up for the rights of people who you think are guilty, who you are prepared to go to court and prove are guilty. The process, their due process still has to exist. So there are people out there saying, well, don't you feel like you got egg on your Face for defending Abrego Garcia now that there are all these charges against him. We don't know what the allegations are. We don't know what the evidence is. Don't know whether he's guilty or innocent of anything Pam Bondi says he's guilty or innocent of. None of this excuses the government's behavior.
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Michael McFaul
No, it doesn't change anything about its failure to return Abrego Garcia to the United States after he was accidentally, erroneously deported. The whole reason ali we have due process is to prevent mistakes from being made. I mean, what due process means is fair notice, an opportunity for a hearing and a neutral arbiter. That's just so that you can have a chance to contest some government action because there may be a mistake. And as everyone conceded initially, the inclusion of Mr. Abrego Garcia on this planeload that went down to El Salvador initially was a mistake. And then the Trump administration, for whatever reason, refused to bring him back when it was clear. I mean, even Tonight, now that Mr. Garcia has been brought back, President Bukele of El Salvador has said, well, yeah, the Trump administration asked me to send him back. So he did.
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News Anchor
Yeah. And Donald Trump, for whatever reason, not taking credit for this. What do you make of the idea that he was sent away in March? The government said it was a mistake. They didn't listen to the Supreme Court or anybody, any court's instructions to bring him back. May 21 is when the the indictment came down, was unsealed. What one wonders whether the government was putting a square peg into a round hole here, that they had done something and now they needed to find something to charge this guy with.
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Michael McFaul
Yeah. Now these allegations are serious. If they're true, they are a serious thing. They allege that he transported and harbored more than 100 undocumented people in exchange for money from the Mexican border into the United States. Those are serious charges, and a grand jury has made that finding. So, you know, that's not something you can make up out of whole cloth. And we'll see whether they've got the proof. It'll go to trial. Now we will get due process. There will be a trial. There will be right to counsel and cross examination of witnesses and other things. But, you know, it used to be, Ellie, the government was entitled to this presumption of regularity. And I have to think that the government has kind of lost that presumption of regularity based on its conduct, not only in this case, but in other cases involving immigration. So, you know, is it just some big coincidence that he gets charged in May with this crime, or did they start digging for this crime after they had egg on their face and found him to be in this Salvadoran prison? Based on the language in the indictment, you know they've charged only Mr. Abrego Garcia, even though there are six unindicted co conspirators. Who are they? Do they care about them? Why aren't they charging these other people? It seems like the whole case focuses on Mr. Abrego Garcia when he's not really even the ringleader. It also relies, it appears, on testimony from one of these co conspirators. And so it may be they have other evidence, but it comes down to mostly the one substantive count they have is this traffic stop from November of 2022, where that's pretty clear. But even then, the police let him go, didn't think much of it. They checked his license and sent him on his way. So it feels like perhaps this was an effort to kind of reconstruct after the fact and pin some charges on him that weren't already existing. But as I said, a grand jury has found probable cause. I think a grand jury is at least entitled to some presumption of regularity. And so we'll see how this case shakes out when it gets to the courts. This is a finding of probable cause, not guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.
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News Anchor
Barbara, thanks as always for making things clear for us. Barbara McQuaid is a former United States attorney and a professor at the University of Michigan Law School. All right. Coming up, yesterday Donald Trump all but gave the go ahead to Vladimir Putin to keep attacking Ukraine. And this morning, Vladimir Putin attacked Ukraine. Former U.S. ambassador Michael McFaul joins us next.
- [29:12]
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News Anchor
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Greenlight Representative
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News Anchor
Today, Vladimir Putin launched new attacks on Ukraine's capital, killing at least four people, the city's mayor told NBC News. Both a drone strike and a missile strike hit KYIV early today. 20 people were injured. It was part of a wider overnight assault and the latest in a series of large scale attacks targeting regions across Ukraine. This comes two days after Donald Trump's latest phone call with Vladimir Putin, and hours after Trump said he likened the two sides in the war to fighting children. During that call with Putin for good measure, he also blamed Ukraine again for the war.
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Donald Trump
Sometimes you see two young children fighting like crazy. They hate each other and they're fighting in a park and you try and pull them apart. They don't want to be pulled. Sometimes you're better off letting them fight for a while and then pulling them apart. And I gave that analogy to Putin yesterday. And you see it in hockey, you see it in sports. The referees. Let them go for a couple of seconds, let them go for a little while before you pull them apart. Will be very, very, very tough. And it could be on both countries, to be honest. You know, it takes two to tango.
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News Anchor
So how tough is very, very tough? Today the Wall Street Journal reports, quote, the Trump administration is trying to get Senator Lindsey Graham, Republican of South Carolina, to significantly weaken his Russia sanctions bill while the White House seeks to patch up its relationship with Moscow instead of punishing it for the continued invasion of Ukraine. Over the past weeks, White House and other administration officials have quietly contacted Graham's office, urging him to water down his bill, namely by inserting waivers that would allow Trump to choose who or what gets sanctioned. Congressional aides said another way to weaken the legislation would be to turn the word shall into May wherever it appears in the bill's text, removing the mandatory nature of the prescribed reprimands, congressional aides said, end quote. There's a hell of a difference between we shall be very, very tough and we may be very, very tough. Tonight on Air Force One. Donald Trump again blamed Ukraine, this time for the deadly attacks Putin launched today. He was also asked about the Wall Street Journal report, and I leave to you to try to make any sense out of how he answered that question.
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Donald Trump
Well, they gave Putin a reason to go in and bomb the hell out of him last night. That's the thing I didn't like about it. When I saw it, I said, here we go. Now it's going to be a strike on Russia, Ukraine.
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News Anchor
Where are you at today with the Senate sanction bill?
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Donald Trump
Well, I know the bill. I've studied the bill. We're going to see. I mean, if we' if I think there's. If I think Russia will not be making a deal or stopping the bloodshed.
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News Anchor
Yeah.
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Donald Trump
Use it if it's necessary. And they've really given me that option.
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News Anchor
Are you trying to get the Senate to water it down, though?
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Donald Trump
No, no, I haven't spoken to them about it. They have a bill that's going to be up to me. It's my option. They've made it that way, and it would save a lot of time if that happened. So I'm okay with it. I haven't decided to use it. It's a very strong bill.
- [33:50]
News Anchor
Joining US Now, Michael McFaul, former US ambassador to Russia and an MSNBC international affairs analyst. A man who studied history reads history. If you want to solve this problem, Michael, you have to understand the history of Russia and Ukraine and what this fight's about. And Donald Trump cannot seem to articulate what's actually going on there in any way that would suggest he could end this fight.
- [34:12]
I
Tragically. I agree. I found his analogies recently to be just completely outrageous. This is not two kids fighting on the street, and you just got to let them fight until they get tired. The analogy, if we have to use these crazy, simplistic analogies, is that some giant kid walked into the house of a very small child with all kinds of weapons and started to beat that child up relentlessly and saying, I'm now going to occupy your house as well. This, this false equivalency that both sides. It takes two to tango is completely inaccurate. One country invaded the other for no reason. There was no pretense for that. There was no threat from Ukraine to Russia. And now in this fight, he says, well, of course they gotta respond. Did you notice? Yeah, of course you did. But I want everybody to notice. You were showing the footage of what they bombed. They didn't attack airplanes, they didn't attack tanks, they didn't attack Military targets. You just showed video of apartment buildings of civilians in Ukraine. And the fact that our President keeps suggesting that there's an equivalency between the two things is just wrong empirically and it's wrong morally.
- [35:33]
News Anchor
There also doesn't seem to be any meaningful movement toward ending this war that he said he would end on day one, which was sort of a ridiculous promise to make because this is complicated. Getting it to stop will be complicated. There doesn't seem to be either expertise or progress. You see a lot of stuff that Donald Trump posts on Truth Social. You see, you know, Witkoff and others going over there and coming, coming out empty handed. How is this going from a, from a diplomatic perspective? Russia seems to be playing the US.
- [36:06]
I
So initially, when the President said he's going to end the war, I said, that's great. We all want this horrific, barbaric war to end. And when he engaged with the Russians, that was controversial when Secretary Rubio met with Foreign Minister Lavrov in Saudi Arabia. But I also applauded that because if you're going to try to mediate, you got to talk even to people that you radically disagree with. But the strategy has been completely flawed. The strategy has been, and Mr. Witkoff in particular, go to Moscow, ask Putin what he wants, give him all the concessions he wants, and then go to the Ukrainians and put pressure on them. And if it worked, we could applaud it and we could talk about Nobel Peace Prizes, et cetera. But it hasn't worked. All that has happened is Putin keeps asking for more. In their latest negotiations, he now says the whole world has to recognize what he has annexed on paper. So he's escalating his demands. And that means that if the President is serious, he has to go to plan B, which is military support for the Ukrainians and supporting that sanctions bill, pressure on Russia. And one more thing I want to say. When you say you're going to do something and then you don't do it, that's the worst of all possible outcomes. That makes us, the United States of America, look weak.
- [37:26]
News Anchor
Right?
- [37:26]
I
It makes us look like we can't do anything. And that has implications not just for Ukraine, but for Taiwan, for every ally and partner we have around the world.
- [37:35]
News Anchor
Ambassador, good to see you as always. Thank you for your analysis. Former United States Ambassador to Russia, Michael McFaul. Tomorrow morning I will speak with the former U.S. ambassador to Ukraine, Bridget Brink, who said Trump's policy on Russia Ukraine, left her no choice but to resign. That's 10am Eastern on Velshi. All right, coming up, Trump's tariff war is bananas and now everyone knows it, thanks to a viral video of one of Trump's econ guys, Howard Lutnick, being questioned in a congressional hearing. I'll show you that next.
- [38:03]
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- [38:35]
News Anchor
Day presents. In the red corner, the undisputed, undefeated weed whacker guy, champion of hurling grass and pollen everywhere. And in the blue corner, the challenger extra strength Hataday eye drops and work all day to prevent the release of histamines that cause itchy allergy eyes. And the winner by knockout is Pataday Pataday. Bring it on.
- [39:05]
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- [39:39]
News Anchor
Endgame defined as the final stage of a game such as chess, when just a few pieces remain and a player is close to achieving their objective. Does Donald Trump think he's winning this chess match on tariffs? Is he close to achieving the objective? The answer is no, because 65 days after so called Liberation Day, most of us have no idea what Trump's trade war objective is, what he's trying to do. Make socks and Barbies and iPhones in American factories with American workers? Or have the current trade arrangement where most products are made overseas in China and elsewhere, cheaply and abundantly with some slight tweaks. It's not clear whether Trump has any idea, and apparently neither does Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick, as exposed in this line of questioning from Pennsylvania Congresswoman Madeline Dean about the impact of tariffs on America's favorite and most purchased fruit, bananas.
- [40:31]
Barbara McQuaid
What's the tariff on bananas? Americans, by the Way love bananas. We buy billions of them a year. I love bananas. What's the tariff on bananas?
- [40:42]
Political Analyst
The tariff on bananas would be representative of the countries that produce them.
- [40:46]
Barbara McQuaid
And what, what's that tariff generally?
- [40:49]
News Anchor
10%.
- [40:49]
Barbara McQuaid
Correct, 10%. Walmart has already increased the cost of bananas by 8%. Recognizable.
- [40:55]
Political Analyst
As countries do deals with us, that will go to zero. As countries do deals with us, that.
- [41:01]
Barbara McQuaid
Will go to zero costs on the American consumer.
- [41:03]
Political Analyst
Now, if you build in America and you produce your product in America, it will be no tariffs.
- [41:08]
Barbara McQuaid
We can't build bananas in America.
- [41:12]
News Anchor
We can't produce bananas in America. We can't build bananas in America. The point of a tariff is to punish foreign producers in a market that a country is trying to grow domestically. We literally can't grow bananas in most of this country. America produces a few million pounds of bananas each year, but we consume more than 6 billion pounds of bananas a year. Joining us now is the banana consuming, Representative Madeline Dean, Democrat of Pennsylvania. She is a member of the House Appropriations Committee. Congresswoman, thank you for being here, because you illustrated it could be about bananas or a million other things that we don't either make here, or it's difficult to make, or we can't make enough to satisfy our market, or perhaps we don't want to make here because making, growing, producing would not pay what it should. There are a lot of examples of things that should not be subject to a blanket tariff because all it's going to do is end up costing you more to buy your bananas.
- [42:11]
Barbara McQuaid
And that is why I brought up the example of bananas. It is something we buy every single day. And you might see in the back.
- [42:21]
News Anchor
I see them.
- [42:22]
Barbara McQuaid
It's my birthday. My husband decided that was my gift today, a bunch of bananas. But the point of bringing it up was to say that the tariff policy of this administration is just set in chaos and absurdity. It has nothing to do with trade. It has nothing to do with growing business, which is literally what the Commerce Secretary said his job was. His mission is to grow and enhance businesses in America. Obviously, it also should have something to do with the cost of goods for Americans, because after all, that's what Mr. Trump ran on. I brought up the issue of bananas because that's a single product that is sold over and over again by Walmart and my local grocer, and they are already increasing the price of bananas right now on you and me, because there is this ridiculous tariff. 10%. At least 10% on bananas. And it's not something he literally said we're Going to be able to produce and build these here?
- [43:26]
News Anchor
Yes.
- [43:27]
Barbara McQuaid
And I ultimately said we don't build bananas here. We just don't. It's just the absurdity and the incoherence of the tariff policy and bananas seems like a very small, simple example. I'll give you another example right in my district, a Machinist Company ordered three very expensive lathes, $80,000 lathes coming from China. Unfortunately, those lathes hit in the two weeks that China had 125% tariff. He paid 340 some thousand dollars in tariffs, taxes on those lathes. And he's asked me is there any way he can get a refund? Because now the tariff is different for China. It's on, it's off. Businesses cannot plan. And that's what I tried to say to Mr. Lutnick. Secretary Lutnick. Businesses here, bankers here, investors here and across the globe. I've gone to Europe. The American chamber has said, we are so confused. How can we plan? How can we invest? How can we merge? How can we grow businesses with this total chaos?
- [44:40]
News Anchor
It's in common sense. And everybody's not Apple or Walmart where they can maybe even throw their weight around. That company you talked about that bought the lathe, no choice in the matter. They had to buy the lathes. For what it's worth, there's a court that says that the government may have to refund this money. But that's gonna have to work.
- [44:57]
Barbara McQuaid
We're gonna fight for it.
- [44:58]
News Anchor
Yeah.
- [44:58]
Michael McFaul
I promise you.
- [44:59]
News Anchor
Representative Dean, good to see you. Thank you so much. Happy birthday and enjoy a couple of bananas before the.
- [45:04]
Barbara McQuaid
How about my bouquet of bananas?
- [45:06]
News Anchor
I love the bouquet of bananas. It's a great idea. Madeline Dean is a congregator.
- [45:09]
Barbara McQuaid
Thank you for covering it. And remember what we're not covering. We're not covering starvation in Gaza, hostages not home. We're not covering people dying every single hour because of USAID shuttering.
- [45:21]
News Anchor
Yep, you're absolutely right about that. And thank you for raising that and making us remember that. Tonight's Last Word is next. Okay, quick programming note before we go. When the animals on Manor farm overthrow the farmer who lords over them, they dream of a utopia built on the ideal that all animals are created equal. But power is corrupting. And soon an autocratic pig seizes control and imposes a new creed on them. The farm. All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others. Tomorrow on the Vel Bend Book Club, we're going to examine one of the most salient and enduring political satires of all time. Animal Farm by George Orwell. Tomorrow, starting at 10am Eastern. I hope you'll join us. In the red corner, the undisputed, undefeated weed whacker guy. Champion of hurling grass and pollen everywhere. And in the blue corner, the challenger, extra strength Pataday eye drops at work all day to prevent the release of histamines that cause itchy allergy eyes. And the winner by knockout is Pataday. Pataday. Bring it on.