← The Last Word with Lawrence O’Donnell
The Last Word with Lawrence O’Donnell
Trump wants DOJ to investigate others tied to Epstein
00:39:39
Tonight on The Last Word: Donald Trump retreats on food tariffs amid anger across the country over high prices. Also, Vice President JD Vance’s claims on AI, robots, and wage growth raise questions. Plus, the House now plans to spike a Senate GOP payout provision. And Democrats eye a possible U.S. House pickup in Tennessee. Rep. Eric Swalwell, Justin Wolfers, Rep. Joe Neguse, and Tennessee State Rep. Aftyn Behn join Ali Velshi.
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- [00:00]
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- [00:51]
Ali Velshi
We'Ve reached the end of Donald Trump's no good, very bad week. The latest in a string of bad weeks since his second term began. But this week the government reopened after a 43 day shutdown, breaking the record of the previous longest ever shutdown, which was in Trump's first term, only to be eclipsed by the release of thousands of emails that the convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein either sent or received. According to an analysis by the Wall street journal, Donald Trump's name appeared in more than half the email files. 1,670 emails, including one that said Trump quote, knew about the girls, end quote. On Air Force One tonight, Donald Trump.
- [01:30]
Justin Wolfers
Said this what did Jeffrey Epstein mean in his emails when he said you knew about the girls?
- [01:37]
Ali Velshi
I know nothing about that. They would have announced that a long time ago. Today, Donald Trump also ignored reporters questions about his former friend Jeffrey Epstein. Mr. President, can we ask you about the FC file? President, how we get buses down?
- [01:58]
Afton Bain
The President has never spent hours with one of Jeffrey FD's victims.
- [02:04]
Ali Velshi
Mr. President, why do you want Bill Clinton investigated? But this morning, after two days of silence over the Epstein emails, Donald Trump finally spoke out on social media only to rely on his favorite deflection tactic. Whataboutism? As in what about everyone else? In Epstein's emails? At 9:33am, Donald Trump posted quote, epstein was a Democrat and he is the Democrats problem, not the Republicans problem. Ask Bill Clinton, Reid Hoffman and Larry Summers about Epstein. They know all about him. Don't waste your time with Trump. I have a country to run, end quote. An hour later at 10:35am Quote, now that the Democrats are using the Epstein hoax involving Democrats, not Republicans, to try and deflect, I will be asking AG Pam Bondi and the Department of Justice, together with our great patriots at the FBI, to investigate Jeffrey Epstein's involvement and relationship with Bill Clinton, Larry Summers, Reid Hoffman, JPMorgan Chase, and many other people and institutions to determine what was going on with them and him. Records show that these men and many others spent large portions of their life with Epstein. Stay tuned. In a statement, a spokesperson for Bill Clinton said, quote, these emails prove Bill Clinton did nothing and knew nothing. The rest is noise meant to distract from election losses, backfiring, shutdowns, and who knows what else. Larry Summers, Reid Hoffman and JPMorgan Chase have all expressed regret over their ties to Epstein. Now, there are a few problems with Trump's whataboutism. For example, what why is Jeffrey Epstein's convicted criminal co conspirator Ghislaine Maxwell getting special treatment in a minimum security prison camp to which she was transferred after meeting with Trump's deputy Attorney General, who also happens to be Trump's former criminal lawyer, Todd Blanche? And why does the Trump Department of Justice seem to have zero problem with that or zero curiosity about why that may be? This is a scandal in and of itself and it's 100% a product of Donald Trump's second term. According to a whistleblower, Maxwell, a convicted sex trafficker, is receiving concierge style treatment in prison. The New York Times Michelle Goldberg writes, quote, what's shocking here is not that Maxwell is being treated decently, all prisoners should be, but that she's being treated so much better than everyone else. The relative pampering she's enjoying seems particularly significant given newly released emails between her and Epstein suggesting she's harboring some sort of secret about Trump. I want you to realize that that dog that hasn't barked is Trump. Epstein wrote to Maxwell in 2011. One of his victims, Epstein wrote, spent hours at my house with him. He's never once been mentioned. Maxwell responded to that. I've been thinking about that. Much about this email is ambiguous. Epstein could have been suggesting that Trump was keeping something quiet, or he might have been expressing surprise that Trump hadn't yet been dragged into this mess. President Presumably Maxwell could clear things up and explain the exact nature of Trump and Epstein's entanglement. That's why it's striking that the Bureau of Prisons, which is part of the Justice Department, seems to be taking such extraordinary steps to keep her Happy. Maybe there's an innocent explanation for all the privileges she's been accorded, but I can't think of one. And why did top Trump DOJ officials bring Congresswoman Lauren Boebert to the Situation Room last week to try to stop the discharge petition to release the Epstein files? They failed, of course. Boebert kept her name on the petition. And next week, the House of Representatives is expected to vote on whether the Trump Justice Department should release all its files related to the investigation into Epstein. On Wednesday, Republican co sponsor Thomas Massie said this.
- [05:42]
Tyler Reddick
Well, I've already had a couple Republicans tell my office privately that they're going.
- [05:47]
Ali Velshi
To vote for it.
- [05:48]
Tyler Reddick
And I think that could snowball. You know, the deal for Republicans on this vote is that Trump will protect you if you vote the wrong way. In other words, if you vote to cover up for pedophiles, you've got cover.
- [06:03]
Ali Velshi
In a Republican primary.
- [06:05]
Tyler Reddick
But I would remind my colleagues that this vote is going to be on your record for longer than Trump is going to be president. And what are you going to do in 2028 and 2030 when you're in a debate either with a Republican or a Democrat and they say, how can we trust you?
- [06:20]
Ali Velshi
You covered up for a pedophile back.
- [06:23]
Tyler Reddick
In, you know, 2025?
- [06:25]
Ali Velshi
Trump has said he had no knowledge, no involvement and had no knowledge of Epstein's sex crimes. So Donald Trump's whataboutism is raising more questions and next week will raise even more questions. Trump also has another deflection after saying, quote, I don't want to hear about the affordability. Donald Trump wants to talk about the affordability. Talking about affordability under the Trump economy means coming to the realization that the Trump tariffs are taxes. Today, Donald Trump signed an executive order lowering some of his tariffs on some food imports. The Wall Street Journal reports, quote, trump issued an executive order modifying the reciprocal tariffs he imposed on virtually every trading partner in August, exempting more than 100 common food items, including fruits, nuts and spices. The move continues a shift away from Trump's maximalist tariff policy. When the president announced his reciprocal tariffs this spring, his team insisted there would be no exemptions to the levies. They later relented, removing duties on certain items not produced in the United States or available in sufficient quantities from domestic suppliers to meet demand. The newly exempted products on Friday, however, include many products commonly produced in the United States, such as beef, which has risen to record prices in recent months. The tariff reductions are retroactive to 12:01am on Thursday, November 13, according to the order, the vice president of federal tax policy at the Tax Foundation, Erica York, told the Wall Street Journal, quote, by admitting that lowering tariffs will lower prices for US Consumers, the Trump administration is acknowledging what economists have pointed out, all tariffs raise prices. Donald Trump's economic pivot designed to distract from Epstein, opens up a whole new set of questions about his policies and who really benefits under his administration. As millions of Americans continue to struggle with the rising costs of everyday goods, the Trump world continues to thrive, often at the expense of taxpayers. Bloomberg is reporting that Michael Flynn, Donald Trump's first national security adviser, who pleaded guilty to lying about the FBI about to the FBI about his contacts with Russia, is in talks with the justice department about a $50 million settlement. ProPublica reports that a firm with business ties to Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem got $220 million for a taxpayer funded ad campaign. Pretty remarkable campaign, by the way. And the Washington Post reports today that Donald Trump is throwing a lavish dinner for Saudi Arabia's Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman next week. The Post reports, quote, the trip is the first visit to the United States for Mohammed bin Salman since the 2018 murder of Jamal Khashoggi, a contributing columnist to the Post and an outspoken critic of the Saudi government. Trump's ties to Saudi Arabia go beyond US Interests. The Trump Organization, which is led by the president's sons, has plans for a Trump branded property in Riyadh, the capital and the largest city in Saudi Arabia, and is also working on Trump Tower Jeddah along the coast of the Red Sea. And Mohammed bin Salman is a business partner of Trump's son in law, Jared Kushner. Kushner's private equity firm has received billions from foreign sources, including the government of Saudi Arabia. It's a lot going on in the last couple of days. Joining us now is the Democratic Congressman Eric Swalwell of California. He's a member of the House Judiciary and Homeland Security Committees. Congressman, good to see you again. Let's start with the you too, Ali. The obvious thing here, Donald Trump is unleashing about the Epstein files. He named all sorts of other people tonight. He says he's withdrawing his support from Marjorie Taylor Greene and will support somebody who primaries her. He posted a nasty message about Thomas Massie. It's feeling like it's coming unwound.
- [10:03]
Justin Wolfers
And the walls are caving in on him. Right. You know, he has sought for the last year to bury these Epstein files as far beneath the earth as possible. And you know, frankly, as a former prosecutor, I would tell a jury that someone that seeks to destroy evidence or hide evidence, we call that a consciousness of guilt. And you just have to assume that he knows that it is not good for him that he is linked so closely to the world's most notorious child sex trafficker. But in the midst of all this mayhem, I just want to take a step back for your viewers because as I see it, perhaps the most insecure, thin skinned person to ever walk this earth coincidentally also happens to be our president. So when you criticize him, he directs his Department of Justice to go after you as he announced three new individuals today. When you make a joke about him, he seeks to take you off the air. When you're a blue state governor and you seek to stand up to him, he seeks to take away your state's cancer research funding. That's what he's been doing, for example, in California. And so the lesson has to be that we are stronger than he is only when we link arms together. But if we allow ourselves to just be one offed or picked off, as some of these professors, law university presidents, entertainment companies, law firms, as they've allowed themselves to do, then he is the strong position and you're in the weak position. So we have to link arms. We are much stronger together, and that's the only way to beat back this bully.
- [11:33]
Ali Velshi
As a legislator and a lawyer, I want to ask you this because I'm a little worried about that movie Wag the Dog. I'm a little worried that we're about to go to war with Venezuela, a war that nobody's interested in. Turns out that the fentanyl so so called fentanyl interdictions were being described by the Defense Secretary or the Defense Department as chemical weapons. They're not providing justification to Congress for, for these attacks. I am worried that when Donald Trump gets very close to that vote in Congress, he's going to do anything he wants to distract from it. Yeah.
- [12:05]
Justin Wolfers
And most Americans are just saying, why don't you declare low, why don't you declare war on rising costs? Because they were promised on day one he was going to lower prices. And it's day 300, Ali, and he's over 300. Costs are going up everywhere. If you're a parent like I am with kids who go to school and do mass shooter drills, you're saying, why don't you declare war on gun violence? There's a lot of things that you can do with the power of the presidency to make a difference in people's lives. But he's looking at what Nicaragua Venezuela. He's talked about different countries over in Africa that he's focused on. This guy is focused on anything to help take away distraction of the Epstein files. And almost nothing that would help any of your viewers work hard and do better and dream bigger in their own lives.
- [12:50]
Ali Velshi
And ironically, with the exception of California, which was a vote on a very different thing, the election results from last week demonstrated that people are actually concerned about affordability. They were concerned about it in 2024, and Donald Trump's messaging on it was a little more disciplined back then. But now the price of eggs are not lower and the price of all sorts of things are not lower. And he's still gaslighting about it.
- [13:13]
Justin Wolfers
He is. And I'll tell you, in California, for example, housing, number one issue, right? In California, the average age of a first time homebuyer is 40, which is like you should be able to have your first job, your first kid and buy your first home in the same decade. And whether it's a Republican president or a Democratic president, every Californian would love if somebody focused on reducing the cost to buy your first home or putting more money in your pocket so that you could, you know, dream and prepare to buy your first home. So there's a lot he could do. And so I'm just asking him, you know, be better, do better, and the American people will be behind you. Right now he's sitting at 36%, which is the lowest in recent history. And it's because his focus is entirely in the opposite direction of where most people need it to be.
- [13:58]
Ali Velshi
All right, what do you, what do you make of what happens next week? Because there is going to be this vote. In theory. I say in theory because one never knows what's going to happen in the House. But in theory, there's going to be a vote. The discharge petition is done. You can't take your name off it right now. And you heard Thomas Massie speculate that there might be a whole lot of Republicans who, if they weren't the ones to break the seal, are now going to understand that their constituents are going to be really mad at them if they, if they cover up for someone who had knowledge of sex crimes and pedophilia.
- [14:27]
Justin Wolfers
Yeah, you can be a pedo protector, Ali, or you can stand up for victims of sexual assault. That's the choice that they have. Next week. Do you want to side with Jeffrey Epstein and those connected to him, or do you want to side with sexual assault victims? And I'll just tell you in my private conversations with Republicans Whether it's at the gym, at the Dunkin Donuts line or just text messaging with them, many of them appreciated that they didn't have to take that vote because they knew how pissed off Donald Trump would be if they voted against him. But once the discharge petition happened, they have told me that, like, they're going to have to vote for it. Like, there's, there's no hiding from this vote. There's no alibi that their constituents would give them if they voted to protect Donald Trump. So it's going to be what we call in Congress, a jailbreak. You'll see a few Republicans early on vote for it, and then there'll be this jailbreak of votes where they're going to look up at the voting board and say, I don't want to be on the other side of this. I don't want history to judge me as being on the side of Jeffrey Epstein and the other monsters who were with him who forcibly raped these young girls.
- [15:31]
Ali Velshi
Congressman, good to see you. Thank you for being with us this evening. Congressman Eric Swalwell in California. All right, coming up, we're going to have more on the Trump economy we were just talking about and J.D. vance's robot dreams. That's next. Extra value meals are back. That means tender juicy McNuggets and medium fries and a drink are just $8.
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Ali Velshi
I'm in.
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- [17:04]
Ali Velshi
Today, Donald Trump blinked. After months of insisting that his chaotic and possibly illegal tariffs were genius, Trump is backing down amid voter anger over high prices and everyday affordability. In doing so, Trump is admitting, without admitting, that the Trump tariffs raise prices for American consumers. CNBC reports. President Donald Trump on Friday exempted key agricultural imports like coffee, cocoa, bananas and certain beef products from his higher tariff rates. Trump's action Friday also exempts a range of fruits including tomatoes, avocados, coconuts, oranges and pineapple, along with coffee. The tariff reductions extend to black and green tea and spices like cinnamon and nutmeg. In a moment, I'm going to explain to you what all those things have in common. Or at least all of them except beef. The reversal comes as voters are blaming Trump for failing to get inflation under control. An NBC News poll shows that nearly 2/3, 63% of registered voters, including 30% of Republicans, say that Donald Trump has fallen short of their expectations on the cost of living and the economy. And from the Associated Press NORC poll, just 33% of adults approve of Donald Trump's handling of the economy. While the Trump White House scrambles to sell its economic narrative despite high prices and rising layoffs in the job market, Vice President J.D. vance went on Fox last night to let the perhaps older viewers there know that they don't have to worry because the Trump team has total command of the economy of the future. Listen to Vance describe what he thinks will happen in a future where AI powered robots can do most of the work.
- [18:33]
Justin Wolfers
I don't think that we're going to ever eliminate the construction industry in this country just because you've got robots.
- [18:38]
Ali Velshi
What you're going to have is a lot of construction workers who are using.
- [18:41]
Tyler Reddick
Those robots, who are directing those robots.
- [18:44]
Justin Wolfers
Who are actually able to do more with less because they're using technology to help them. You're always going to need construction workers in this economy, but I want their wages to go up. And I think if we lean into technology, that's what's going to happen.
- [18:57]
Tyler Reddick
They'll wire the house, they'll put in insulation, they'll put up the wallboard, they'll.
- [19:01]
Ali Velshi
Paint the wallboard and then the finish work. In comes the craftsman.
- [19:05]
Tyler Reddick
I'm not so sure that AI is.
- [19:07]
Justin Wolfers
Going to be able to do that.
- [19:08]
Tyler Reddick
At least in the short term, but it wouldn't surprise me.
- [19:10]
Ali Velshi
Look, I think a lot of the.
- [19:11]
Justin Wolfers
Craftsmanship, a lot of the direction, a lot of the management you're going to need a human being to do that.
- [19:15]
Tyler Reddick
Nobody can replace.
- [19:16]
Justin Wolfers
No robot can replace a great blue collar construction worker. You know, you see some of the houses, some of the things they do, the trim that they're able to do.
- [19:25]
Ali Velshi
There's an art that I don't think.
- [19:27]
Justin Wolfers
A robot's ever going to be able to replace. But can a robot maybe make it easier for a construction worker to put more nails and more walls over a.
- [19:35]
Ali Velshi
Shorter period of time?
- [19:36]
Justin Wolfers
Some of the rote things, in other words, you're going to see. I think robotics help the construction workers.
- [19:42]
Ali Velshi
And I think that's going to lead.
- [19:43]
Justin Wolfers
To higher wages and it's also going to lead to more homes for president.
- [19:47]
Ali Velshi
Now look, nobody knows what's going to happen in the future. There's no question that AI is revolutionary and we will probably adapt as we have to other technologies. But he sure makes what might be the biggest transition of the century look like a walk in the park. I'm not sure high paying blue collar job of the future is trim work. Especially when a lot of trim work in new homes in the current economy is pre cut and bought in bulk. It's not clear at all that very many of what Vance calls America's great blue collar construction workers are also going to get higher wages to be robot supervisors. But it shows something of the sleight of hand that pervades the Trump team on the economy. The lip service paid to hard hat real people jobs on tv. While the administration is pretty focused on serving the tech bro AI billionaires like Elon Musk and of course the access to the seemingly bottomless stream of money that comes with them. Joining us now is Justin Wolfers, professor of Economics and Public Policy at the University of Michigan, who does bring nuance to this conversation. Because one needs to have nuance in the conversation about AI you pointed out to me the other day. We've had massive transformations. Historically, we often get to the other side. The transition's the hard part.
- [20:51]
Tyler Reddick
Absolutely. But I want to stick with what JD Vance just said because it's so interesting and so revealing. He said if we have robots that come and help Americans become more productive that allow American workers to move up the value chain, that's really good news. J.D. vance's workplace of the Future sounds terrific. That there's American workers and there are these two legged robots walking around helping them and making them do more, be more productive doing the work the American workers don't want to do. Here's the thing. What if that two legged robot was called Jose and was a person. What if he was an immigrant? All of a sudden JD Vance thinks that's a terrible and horrific future.
- [21:33]
Ali Velshi
Right.
- [21:34]
Tyler Reddick
It's utterly revealing. He's totally comfortable with robots coming in to help Americans do the jobs Americans don't want to do. But the moment they're ethnic, they're foreign, they're from across a border, they have a different color of skin, this is the worst thing that could happen to American workers.
- [21:51]
Ali Velshi
It's a good point. Agricultural workers, construction, construction industry, they're all reeling because of these ice crackdowns, because they employ people like you described. It's a good point. If it's a robot, it's not as much of a problem. I will say part of the issue here is that this administration, when we have tough things to deal with and the White House appoints a czar, generally that means we're going to try and figure out how to regulate this thing or we're going to try and figure out how to fix a broken problem. Our AI czar sort of is signaling that we're not going to regulate this, that this is a free for all for now. That's the part that worries me. Like, I love the Internet. I love all the things the Internet brought. I would like it if we paid a little more attention to regulating at the front end than trying to figure out the harms at the back end.
- [22:35]
Tyler Reddick
Absolutely. So, Ali, this is the thing I love about you. And your viewers are just so lucky to have you. This is the most important argument of our generation. If we were in a sane society, this is going to. We understand this is a tidal wave of technologies, technological change. It's fundamentally going to change the American workforce and therefore our way of life. And we're not even talking about it because we have to keep up with the outrage of the day. We've got a bearded Yale lawyer who's muttering some stuff to some old people. But this is absolutely central. I'd love to dig in deep and really go all the way with you there, mate.
- [23:12]
Ali Velshi
Yeah. In a real world, we'd be having lots of conversations. And my viewers, who are probably consumers of AI, they don't really know how involved they are in it, because the fact is, it's all around you. You don't have to be. You don't have to be using an AI app or AI technology to be interacting with AI on a daily basis. And again, you've made the point that there have been changes of this magnitude in human history, including the Internet. The advent of the Internet which is probably the biggest change in our lives.
- [23:36]
Tyler Reddick
What's so interesting about this is almost every previous technological revolution, the plow, the steam engine, electricity, has been technology coming in and doing the work of Braun, of muscle. And so the people who lost out of those previous revolutions were basically those who had brawn, big boofy blokes. I don't know whether you're willing to admit this, but that's not guys like you and me, Ali. What's different this time is the robots are doing cognitive work. So that means the folks they're coming for this time are white collar workers. So it's an old script. And to my blue collar friends, you might say, to those of us in the white collar world, welcome to what I've lived through for the past 40 years. Because folks like you and I, Ali, what is it we're good at? We're good at reading a lot of stuff and turning it into straightforward English. What's AI good at? Reading a lot of stuff and turning it into straightforward English. And so many of our viewers are in the same situation that you and I are. We feel like Detroit auto workers in the 1970s.
- [24:38]
Ali Velshi
Right.
- [24:39]
Tyler Reddick
And we want to make sure that we get the policy response right this time. Not because it's white collar workers this time, but because we ought to learn from history.
- [24:46]
Ali Velshi
So I had a conversation today with Sean o', Brien, the head of the Teamsters Union, and he made an interesting point. He said we're actually probably better off in the AI revolution than white collar workers are meaning Teamsters. For the moment. He said for the moment. You still need humans to run the kind of machinery Teamsters use and deliver the things that Teamsters use. He did point out that the Teamsters Union logo is two horses and a cart. He said they were devastated when the combustion engine came in. They definitely thought it was the end of the Teamsters, and they're the biggest union in the country today.
- [25:18]
Tyler Reddick
Yep. So, look, the real secret to all of this is it's very easy for us to feel threatened and think about ways which. For the Teamsters, it was that horses could do their work or the combustion engine could do their work. And for us, it's ways in which AI can do our work for us. But look, the real secret here is that if we do it right, and this is the kernel of truth that J.D. vance was getting at, if we do it right, what they can do is give each of us a superpower. They can supercharge us. We can be a complement rather than a substitute, and that Also means that, for instance, the young students who I'm training right now, I want to train them to be learning skills that are going to be complementary to AI rather than skills that AI is going to absolutely dominate and beat them out.
- [25:59]
Ali Velshi
So something you said to me a couple months ago was about tariffs on coffee. I think coffee and bananas. You might have been mentioning two things that we can't fundamentally expand our production of in the United States. We grow very little of both. Today. The care tariffs are coming off of a couple of those things.
- [26:15]
Tyler Reddick
Astonishing. So do I get to say right now to the haters and the losers, Yeah, I mean, apology, but you've been right about this all along, Ali as well. It's actually an astonishing moment. So the White House is saying we're worried about the cost of living. How do we get the cost of living down? We get the tariffs down. That's an explicit that the tariffs are being borne by Americans. By the way, that makes this week's other political stunt even more ridiculous. This week's other political stunt is we're going to declare a tariff dividend and send everyone $2,000 checks.
- [26:48]
Ali Velshi
Wild.
- [26:49]
Tyler Reddick
Now that the White House is admitting you paid us $2,000, now we're just gonna give it back. Do you know what's even more efficient than taking $2,000 from the average American and then giving them back $2,000?
- [26:59]
Ali Velshi
Not taking it in the first place.
- [27:01]
Tyler Reddick
My goodness, you should run for Congress.
- [27:03]
Ali Velshi
Yeah. Wild. I think I might be talking to you later this weekend. I want to talk to you about this other thing that's been the 50 year mortgage, how that's a great idea for banks, maybe, not for everybody else. Justin, great to see you as always. Thank you, my friend.
- [27:16]
Tyler Reddick
Pleasure.
- [27:16]
Ali Velshi
Justin Wolfers. All right, coming up, how a potential multimillion dollar payday for a handful of Republican lawmakers appears to have been stopped in its tracks. That's next.
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Ali Velshi
There was a win this week in the seemingly endless grift of the Trump 2.0 era. The Senate brokered a compromise deal at the start of the week to end the government shutdown. And as it happens, after the vote, we started to learn about the things in the bill that had nothing to do with reopening the government, Politico reported Monday. Senate Republicans secured a provision in the bipartisan shutdown ending government funding package that could award senators hundreds of thousands of dollars for having their phone records collected without their knowledge as part of the January 6th investigation. That legislative language comes directly from Senate Majority Leader John TH. You heard that right. A potential half million dollar payout for Republican senators whose phone records were subpoenaed in the federal criminal investigation into Donald Trump's attempt to overturn the 2020 election results. Congressman Joe Negus thought that was outrageous and he decided to put a Republican chairman on the spot about it live on television.
- [29:50]
Joe Neguse
And this is the provision that essentially allows specifically eight Republican United States Senators to reap upwards of a half a million dollar payday with respect to the phone record notice provision that they've added into the bill. You support that provision?
- [30:07]
Ali Velshi
I didn't have anything to do with it. Didn't have any knowledge of it.
- [30:10]
Joe Neguse
Not asking if you have knowledge of it. Do you support it?
- [30:13]
Ali Velshi
Do I support the bill? Yes.
- [30:15]
Tyler Reddick
Do I support every single provision in the bill?
- [30:17]
Justin Wolfers
No.
- [30:17]
Joe Neguse
You don't find this provision repugnant? I think most American people are going to find this repugnant.
- [30:22]
Ali Velshi
I was surprised to see it in the bill.
- [30:24]
Joe Neguse
There will be an amendment proposed to remove what I think is a deeply insidious provision. I think it is outrageous, outrageous for these Republican senators to effectively guarantee themselves million dollar paydays retroactive, retroactive provision in this bill that very clearly applies to them the removal of all relevant immunity defenses on the part of the United States government. This is insanity to allow this provision to go forward. And I would hope that my Republican colleagues would join us in supporting the removal of this provision. At a minimum, we ought to be able to find common ground on that.
- [31:14]
Ali Velshi
The very next day, the Washington Post reported a provision tied to the investigation into the January 6, 2021 attack on the Capitol. Buried deep in the bill to end the longest government shutdown in US History has sparked bipartisan outrage, with House Republicans vowing to try to repeal the provision later, even as the House passed the bill that includes it. Speaker Mike Johnson told reporters after the vote that many House Republicans were angry about the provision and that he had spoken to Thune about it. The House will try to pass a bill early next week to repeal the provision, Johnson said, realizing just how bad they looked. NBC News reported today that most of the senators whose data was requested as part of the investigation that led to Special counsel Jack Smith's January 6 probe have now distanced themselves from a provision included in the shutdown ending bill that would let them sue the government for potentially millions of dollars for not notifying them when accessing their records. Several senators have already indicated that they won't seek a payout, except apparently for one.
- [32:14]
Justin Wolfers
We should be filing a lawsuit.
- [32:16]
Ali Velshi
Oh, definitely.
- [32:17]
Tyler Reddick
And if you think I'm going to sell this thing for a million dollars.
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Ali Velshi
No, I want to make it so.
- [32:22]
Tyler Reddick
Painful no one ever does this again.
- [32:24]
Ali Velshi
And they would have gotten away with it if it wasn't for those meddling House members. Joining us now is the Democratic Congressman Joe Negus of Colorado. He's the assistant Democratic leader and a member of the House Rules Committee. Congressman, good to see you. Thank you for being here.
- [32:36]
Joe Neguse
Good to see you, Ali. Thanks for having me.
- [32:38]
Ali Velshi
Let's just paint a picture here. This is. These are. This is information that was subpoenaed. It's been described by Jamie Raskin as the kind of thing you'd see in a phone bill. It's not, not a recording, it's not a wiretap. It's information about calls in and out, subpoenaed. This wasn't somebody just handing over information.
- [33:00]
Joe Neguse
That's correct, yeah. My colleague, Representative Raskin, is accurate. And I think you've described, well, Ali, the particular insidiousness of this provision. I mean, I think as you know, I was in the Capitol on January 6th with my colleagues. I served as one of the impeachment prosecutors, prosecutors in the impeachment trial that followed of President Trump. The notion that these senators would attempt to secure million dollar paydays connected to litigation with respect to January 6th is so outrageous and transparently corrupt on its face that as you noted, several House Republicans, I think, felt compelled to at least create the perception that they were distancing themselves from these senators and this just corrupt effort itself, enrichment. But, of course, actions speak louder than words. And it is important to recognize that every single House Republican, with the exception of two, still voted for the bill on Wednesday that included this provision. So that provision is now the law of the land. They had every opportunity to support our amendment. They chose not to. We will have another opportunity, we hope, next week to pass this bill. And ultimately, at that point, the question will be, what is the speaker prepared to do to compel Senator Thune and the upper chamber to remove this provision from law? But it is transparently corrupt, and I think the American people understand that.
- [34:17]
Ali Velshi
How would this apply to the rest of us? If there were some, if there was a valid case or an investigation and someone subpoenaed my phone records from the phone company, what protections do the rest of us have? I mean, were the senators looking to carve out a special thing for them? This wasn't a lawsuit saying the investigation was not legal.
- [34:37]
Joe Neguse
That's precisely what they were trying to do. I mean, this is. It's a separate set of rules that the Senate attempted. The Senate Republicans attempted to create and essentially guaranteeing themselves, through this self enrichment scheme, upwards of millions of dollars if the notice requirements that they are now imposing were violated. And these requirements would only apply to a specific class of individuals, and that is the United States Senate. And I think there are reasonable questions to be asked as to how this provision got into the bill in the first place.
- [35:08]
Ali Velshi
Yeah, that's what I'm wondering. Who puts this 20, 25, like, we've got AI. We can find these things like, who thinks that they can get away with this? That's right.
- [35:16]
Joe Neguse
Well, and by the way, there are specific Senate ethics rules that ultimately compel senators to not champion or, you know, support or aid legislation that would benefit themselves financially. So some really important questions to be asked. But look, at the end of the day, Ali, the reality is this is emblematic of the broader corruption that has become endemic in Trump's Washington, D.C. i mean, the reality is it's no different than Trump's efforts to try to secure hundreds of millions of dollars through the Department of Justice, taxpayer dollars connected to the litigation against him. There was reporting today that apparently the Department of Justice is attempting to settle million dollar lawsuit with Michael Flynn, the former National Security Advisor.
- [35:57]
Ali Velshi
Maybe up to $50 million in President.
- [35:58]
Joe Neguse
Trump's first term, upwards of $50 million. So again, the reality is Donald Trump, I think, has made corruption the rule.
- [36:06]
Tyler Reddick
In.
- [36:09]
Joe Neguse
This all comes on the, you know, with the backdrop of Americans paying increased costs as a result of Trump's policies, everything is getting more expensive. And meanwhile, they are securing million dollar paydays for the sycophantic Republican supporters that he has in the United States Senate. It's disgraceful. And I think that ultimately there will be an electoral price to be paid next November. The voters understand corruption when they see it.
- [36:31]
Ali Velshi
It's a big trough and there are a lot of snouts in it right now. But this is a victory. This was, this was one of those things that pulls everybody back just a little bit. Congressman, good to see you. Thank you for being with us.
- [36:41]
Joe Neguse
Good to see you.
- [36:42]
Ali Velshi
All right, coming up, voters might be about to bring more electoral pain to Republicans in a special election in a red state where early voting is now underway. We'll talk about that next. After some blowout wins by Democrats earlier this month in elections across the country, Prop 50 in California, Abigail Spanberger in Virginia, Mikey Sherrill in New Jersey and more, the new test for Donald Trump's Republican Party at the ballot box will happen way before the midterm elections a year from now. In fact, it's already happening. Early voting is underway in a Dec. 2 special election in Tennessee's 7th congressional district. You can see it here on the map, which includes a portion of the state's capital city, Nashville, some Nashville suburbs and more rural counties farther west. This recently redrawn district was part of a 2022 strategy by Tennessee Republicans, which at the time the Guardian called a masterclass in election rigging. The Guardian described it as, quote, an aggressive plan to split Nashville, a Democratic bastion in a deeply Republican state, into several congressional districts as part of an effort to tilt the state's congressional map in their favor. The new districts cracked the concentration of Democratic voters in Nashville and crammed them into three districts that stretch across the state and are filled with reliable Republican voters. That plan worked, but Democrats now think they might have a shot at winning this particular seat back. The Tennessean reports quote, State Representative Afton Bain, 35, is the Democratic nominee in the special election for Tennessee's 7th congressional district, the last election in the country. This year. Energized by recent wins, Democrats are hoping to flip the seat, a daunting task in the district where retired Republican Congressman Mark Green won reelection last year by 22 points. We've been called a long shot, but I'll tell you what, Tennessee loves a long shot, Bain told a town hall at Watson Grove Baptist Church on November 7, we can turn this safe red seat into the most competitive seat in America. And on December 2nd, we're going to get the job done. Joining us now is Afton Bain, current Democratic representative in the Tennessee State House and candidate for the U.S. house of Representatives. Thank you for being with us tonight.
- [38:51]
Afton Bain
Thank you for having me.
- [38:53]
Ali Velshi
There were some big, big changes in last week's elections. 22 points is big. This is big. Tell me why you think you've got a reasonable shot at this.
- [39:02]
Afton Bain
Well, affordability is the crisis in Tennessee. Groceries, rent, utilities and gas from Trump's tariffs, everything is going up. And Washington Republicans have no response to deal with the spiraling cost. Democrats who ran on affordability last week had a great run. And so if you knock doors, if you made calls, or you sent a few bucks to. To those candidates running. Thank you. And don't forget that there's one more election left, which is this one.
- [39:26]
Ali Velshi
So this is. You bring a good point up. Affordability was central to last week's election. In fact, people willingly said that they would vote against their ideology. If you could make their life better, if you can make hard work result in a good life.
- [39:41]
Afton Bain
That's right. And that's what I've been hearing across the district. People cannot afford to live anymore. And Washington Republicans and my opponent have not addressed this issue. I got my start as a healthcare organizer in the state of Tennessee trying to make healthcare more affordable. And this race is one about healthcare. I have Republicans across the district reaching out and saying, I will vote for a Democrat for the first time if you promise to ensure the subsidies for the Affordable Care Act.
- [40:06]
Ali Velshi
Yeah, this is interesting. Democrats stuck to this message all through the shutdown, and it made it real for a lot of people, including in red states where lots and lots of people benefit from these subsidies.
- [40:18]
Afton Bain
That's correct. And Nashville, the district includes Nashville, which represents a lot of working musicians that also use the Affordable Care Act. And I talked to one family in Clarksville this week that said they would have to choose either to allow their daughter to play middle school soccer or pay for health insurance. And that's not a choice any Tennessee family wants to make.
- [40:39]
Ali Velshi
Let's talk about the other thing that affects Tennessee and some of the rural areas that fall into your district, and it's the closure of rural hospitals because there are people who have nothing to do with Medicaid or anything to do with this. But the funding for those hospitals comes from the fact in many cases that Medicaid people on Medicaid use them, which means if you're in a rural area in this country, you just might lose your hospital.
- [40:59]
Afton Bain
We there are people in my district that travel three to four hours to access facilities. 60% of our healthcare facilities in the state don't have maternity care. We are in healthcare deserts. And the cuts to Medicaid after the passage of the big ugly bill will decimate not only rural hospitals but also nursing homes. So it's definitely at the forefront of everyone's minds. At least one rural hospital would close, will close in the district because of the big ugly bill passing.
- [41:26]
Ali Velshi
So since the beginning of this administration, we've had all sorts of things in red districts. We've had people mad about the Doge cuts. Then we've had this, this inflation and this affordability message that Donald Trump seems to forget every couple of days. And then we've had this health care issue come up. Tell me, to what degree do you think you're able to move people on these issues?
- [41:47]
Afton Bain
I'd say a lot. I mean, we, the polling, you know, obviously it was a Republican district, but our polling continues to show that we are shrinking those margins because of the affordability message that folks cannot afford healthcare, they can't afford to live. We have the highest inflationary cost of groceries in the country. And the Republicans don't have a solution to that. Neither does my opponent, who is backed by President Trump and is a puppet to the puppet masters of the universe. I also want to flag that the Epstein files have been a major issue within the district. And, you know, it's just another example of the billionaire boys club getting away with crimes while regular Tennesseans get crushed with prices.
- [42:23]
Ali Velshi
Afton Bain, thank you for joining us tonight. We appreciate your time.
- [42:26]
Afton Bain
Thank you so much.
- [42:27]
Ali Velshi
Democratic candidate for Tennessee's 7th congressional district, Afton Bain. Tonight's last word is next. Tomorrow's Velshi Band Book Club feature, the Knife and the Butterfly by veteran member of the Velshi Band Book Club, Ashley Hope Perez, is a reminder of just how much novels can cry. The Knife and the Butterfly tells the story of two teenagers, members of rival gangs, a boy and a girl and the single act of violence that connects them forever. Don't miss my conversation with the author, Ashley Hope Perez, tomorrow on Velshi at 10am Eastern. And that is tonight's last word. Tomorrow, MSNBC becomes Ms. Now. Same mission, new name. But stay right here because I'm going to join the 11th hour for our last show from 30 Rockefeller Center.
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Tyler Reddick
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