← The Last Word with Lawrence O’Donnell
The Last Word with Lawrence O’Donnell
Trump White House engulfed in Epstein firestorm
00:41:31
Tonight on The Last Word: Democrats eye an obscure law to force the release of the Epstein files. Also, Donald Trump pushes Texas gerrymandering to help House Republicans. Plus, the 60th anniversary of Medicare and Medicaid is marked by deep Trump-GOP cuts. And a former Navajo president launches a campaign to unseat Arizona GOP Rep. Eli Crane. Harry Litman, Heather Long, Rep. Julie Johnson, Rep. Glenn Ivey, Norm Ornstein, and Jonathan Nez join Jonathan Capehart.
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- [00:00]
Jen Psaki
Saturday, October 11th. From New York City, it's MSNBC Live 25. Join your favorite MSNBC hosts, Rachel Maddow, Joe Scarborough, Mika Brzezinski, Nicole Wallace, Ari Melber, Alicia Menendez, Simone Sanders Townsend, Michael Steele, Chris Haynes, jen Psaki, Lawrence O', Donnell, Stephanie Ruhl and more. Visit msnbc.comlive25 to buy your tickets today. Subscribe to MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts for early access, ad free listening and bonus content to all of MSNBC's original podcasts, including the chart topping series the Best People with Nicole Wallace, why is this Happening? Main justice and more. Plus new episodes of all your favorite MSNBC shows ad free and ad free listening to all of Rachel Maddow's original series, Ultra Bagman and Deja News. Subscribe to MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts.
- [01:00]
Jonathan Capehart
Will be watching them. That does it for me tonight. The Last Word starts right now with Jonathan Capehart in for Lawrence. Hey, Jonathan.
- [01:06]
Ari Melber
Hey, Jen. You know, Roy Cooper's a badass. I mean, the Democratic governor who was able to expand Medicaid in his state with Republican legislature. I mean, come on.
- [01:21]
Jonathan Capehart
And one of their attacks was that he expanded Medicaid, it seems, and that he has a North Carolina accent, I suppose. I don't know. Little weak soup there. But yes, he's a badass. I'm sure he'd love that.
- [01:33]
Ari Melber
I wonder if he's watching. Call me Senator. Jen, thank you.
- [01:36]
Harry Littman
Call Jonathan.
- [01:36]
Jonathan Capehart
He's available. Have a great show.
- [01:39]
Ari Melber
Thank you, Jen. Donald Trump is gaslighting the American people. That's what Joe Rogan said about the Trump administration's Epstein problem. They're trying to gaslight you, but it's actually Trump's modus operandi on everything. Untethered to the truth, Trump just says stuff in the hopes of willing it into existence. Remember his wild promises to lower prices and end the war in Ukraine on day one? Now Trump is running the same playbook and essentially asking people not to believe their own eyes. Today, Donald Trump tried to paint a rosy picture of the US economy, touting a GDP report that showed the economy growing at 3% in the second quarter.
- [02:26]
Heather Long
We smashed all expectations. They thought it would be maybe a little bit less than 2. And it was 3, a little bit more than 3. Consumer spending is up, business investment is way up. Domestic manufacturing is way up. Real disposable family income is up and personal savings are up. This is truly the dawn of the golden age of America.
- [02:51]
Ari Melber
The golden age of America. That top line growth number sounds good until you look under the Hood the New York Times reports economic growth softened in the first half of the year as tariffs and uncertainty upended business plans and scrambled consumers spending decisions. Many forecasters expect a further deterioration in the months ahead as tariffs work their way through supply chains, federal job cuts filter through the economy and stricter immigration policies take a toll on industries that rely on foreign born workers. The Wall Street Journal editorial board dubbed it the weirdest GDP report ever. If you think President Trump's tariff ructions don't affect the economy, take a gander at Wednesday's report for second quarter gross domestic product. The economy grew 3% on an annual basis, but largely because imports collapsed. There's no recession signal in the second quarter numbers, but there's no boom either. Things could only get worse in three days when Donald Trump's delayed tariff deadline, postponed from April 9, is supposed to take effect, which Donald Trump is claiming will be a great day for America. But Americans have soured on Donald Trump's economic policies, with 60% disapproving of his handling of the economy, 62% believe Donald Trump's policies are making food and groceries more expensive. Even in a Fox News poll, 62% disapprove of Trump's tariffs and his handling of inflation. Despite those numbers, Donald Trump posted Today, quote, the August 1st deadline is the August 1st deadline. It stands strong and will not be extended. A big day for America. In other words, no taco. We'll see if Trump always chickens out, or taco, as it's come to be known. On Friday, Donald Trump touted deals that aren't actually deals in the White House.
- [05:08]
Heather Long
Today, the Japan deal is done. Many of the other deals are done. Were now negotiating with various other countries and the rest were just sending out the bill to we send a bill, we send a letter saying that you'll pay a certain tariff.
- [05:27]
Ari Melber
But as ABC News reports, quote, the trade agreement with the European Union, for instance, lowers the tariff rate on European products to 15%, putting it below the threatened rate of 30%, but higher than a universal rate of 10% faced by nearly all imports. Similarly, the accord with Japan lowers tariffs on such imports from a threatened rate of 25% to 15%. So American consumers will still be facing higher costs, even from countries Donald Trump claimed to make a deal with. And remember this one, none of this is legal since these deals haven't been approved by Congress, a fact currently being litigated in court. All of this is why the Federal Reserve decided once again not to lower interest rates today despite pressure from Donald Trump. And when it comes to Jeffrey Epstein, the convicted sex trafficker who Donald Trump once called a, quote, terrific guy. Once again, Trump wants you to think. Nothing to see here. Overnight, Trump's Justice Department filed a motion explaining to a judge why. Why they want to unseal the grand jury transcripts in Jeffrey Epstein's and Ghislaine Maxwell's criminal cases, citing a broad public interest in the underlying proceedings. NBC News reports, quote, the DOJ addressed secrecy concerns because of personal identifying information contained in grand jury transcripts. While there is broad agreement that victims information should be kept private, the Justice Department has also pushed for redacting information related to people who have not been charged with crimes. And the Washington Post reports today, quote, the grand jury transcripts the Justice Department is seeking to make public from its investigation of disgraced financier and sex offender Jeffrey Epstein and his associate Ghislaine Maxwell include testimony from only two witnesses, both of them law enforcement officers. Government lawyers said that will likely not be good enough to satisfy Trump's MAGA supporters yelling for transparency. New polling shows 58% of voters disapprove of the way the Trump administration is handling the Epstein files. Only 16% approve. And across the board, wide majorities support releasing all files from the Epstein case, including 82% of Republicans. I'm sorry, let me say that again. 83% of Republicans and 82% of MAGA Republicans and 61% think the Epstein files contain embarrassing information about Trump. Today, Senate Democrats took another step toward trying to force the Trump administration to release the Epstein files. Democratic Leader Chuck Schumer led all seven senators on the Homeland Security Committee in invoking a rarely used law to compel the Justice Department to release the Epstein files. The New York Times reports. Under a section of federal law commonly referred to in the Senate as the rule of five, government agencies are required to provide relevant information if any five members of the Homeland Security Committee request it. Here is what Leader Schumer said. This is not complicated. After promising full transparency for years, every single time Trump, his administration, Republican leaders have had a chance to be transparent about the Epstein files, they've chosen to hide. The evasions, the delays, the excuses. They are not just odd, they're alarming. It begs the question, if there's nothing to hide, why all the evasiveness? It's not a stunt, it's not symbolic. It's a formal exercise of congressional power under federal law. And we expect an answer from DOJ by August 15th. Even some Republicans are admitting that Donald Trump's efforts to distract away from The Epstein files may not be enough.
- [09:43]
Harry Littman
American people want to know and they're entitled to know who, if anyone.
- [09:49]
Ari Melber
He trafficked these women, too. And if there were such people, such.
- [09:55]
Harry Littman
Men, then why weren't they prosecuted? I think we're beyond the point where they can say, look, trust me, there's nobody else. I think this now the American people want to see receipts and I want.
- [10:08]
Ari Melber
To give them plenty of time, a reasonable amount of time to and I think Congress should, too, to decide how they're going to answer that question. But I think they're gonna have to answer and they should. Joining us now, Harry Littman, former U.S. attorney and former Deputy Assistant Attorney General. He is also host of the Talking Feds podcast. Harry, thanks for being here. What can you tell us about this move by the Democrats and what happens if Trump refuses?
- [10:35]
Harry Littman
Well, I think we will find that out, Jonathan, because I think they will refuse. It is in the law. What Schumer is saying is accurate, the so called rule of five. But it's specifically for minority members of the law here, all seven Democratic members of the Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee. And it hasn't really been tested in the court. What you're going to hear, this gets arcane, but you're going to hear the administration saying, oh, this is a political dispute. Courts, you may not resolve this. Or maybe they will say these individual members don't have standing to bring it, even though that's what the law says. So the law does say it. It's only been used a few times and the last couple times it's been used have had just those sorts of disputes and then the dispute kind of died because the administration and Congress would negotiate as normally happens after a subpoena, but does not seem very likely here. Administration does not play by those normal rules.
- [11:40]
Ari Melber
You know, Harry, Virginia Giuffre's family put out a statement contradicting what Trump said yesterday, that Epstein, quote, unquote, stole her from the spa at Mar a Lago. I'm going to quote from the statement. We would like to clarify that it was convicted sex trafficker Ghislaine Maxwell who targeted and preyed upon our then 16 year old sister Virginia from Mar a Lago, where she was working in 2000, several years before Epstein and President Trump had their falling out. It was shocking to hear President Trump invoke our sister and say that he was aware that Virginia had been stolen from Mar A Lago. It makes us ask if he was aware of Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell's criminal actions, especially given his statement two years later that his good friend Jeffrey, quote, likes women on the younger side. Harry, your reaction to this statement?
- [12:34]
Harry Littman
Yeah, look, that's exactly right. The timeline isn't in doubt. Trump tried to sort of finesse it. But, but it is clear that when she was a 16 year old working at Mar A Lago, not a very good look, by the way, for Mar A Lago and Trump, it was Maxwell who preyed on her, zeroed in on her and said, oh, you come this way, you're going to be Jeffrey Epstein's traveling masseuse, which she was for two years. She was one of the more notorious and tragic victims, Jonathan, including alleging she was forced to have sex with prosecution Prince Andrew. But really it to me makes it seem as if they are running in at least similar circles. And for sure that when Trump says that's the reason he banned Epstein, it just doesn't fly with the time two years later he's saying, as you said, one year after that he's writing the letter. It seems certain that the Wall Street Journal publicized. So it really doesn't hold up to the facts even a little.
- [13:38]
Ari Melber
The Supreme Court will meet on the Supreme Court will meet on September 29th to discuss I'm sorry, I'm getting something in my ear that I can't quite hear, but let me ask you this.
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Harry Littman
Question if I get it.
- [13:52]
Ari Melber
It's not breaking news, but let me ask you this question. And the Supreme Court will meet on September 29th to discuss several petitions, including Glenn Maxwell's appeal. What did, what do you think might come from that?
- [14:06]
Harry Littman
Not a lot. It's a cert petition and it's pretty routine. And it was given quick work by the Court of Appeals. It's just the last stop in the road. And she has said, by the way, trying to negotiate or maybe just refuse by granting conditions that she doesn't want to testify until that's over. And then she brings another, another habeas case that could be years. She also wants to see all the questions, also wants to have immunity. That's either her way of saying no unless I'm going to take the Fifth Amendment, or a sort of opening bid that the Congress has already made clear they're not going to take. No immunity for convicted sex offender Ghislaine Maxwell.
- [14:55]
Ari Melber
Harry Littman, thank you for coming back to the Last Word. And just want to note for the viewers that NBC News has not confirmed the Trump letter story that's been reported by the Wall Street Journal. Joining us now is Heather Long. Chief economist at Navy Federal, my former colleague at the Washington Post. It's been a long time since I've seen you. Thank you for coming to the last word. Help us understand this GDP report that appears good on the surface. What are the underlying concerns about the economy?
- [15:28]
Glenn Ivey
Yeah, I think the Wall Street Journal got it right when they called it one very weird report. That headline figure 3% obviously looks pretty darn good. But as you said, when you look under the surface, so much of that 3% growth was driven by the fact that companies just stopped importing in April and May. You know, those tariffs went into effect. It was a very confusing time. And most companies just kind of threw up their hands and said, don't bring anything in right now. And so that artificially boosted. As many of your viewers will know, the key to the US Economy is what is the consumer doing? Are people still out there buying or not? And that's the key number. And that came in at 1.4%. So not a recession. This is a growing economy, but that is a much lower number than what we have been used to. Last year that figure was close to 3% in 2023, 2024. So you can see the slowdown.
- [16:27]
Ari Melber
A Ford earnings report said the company has paid $800 million in tariffs last quarter. Today Jerome Powell said this, listen to this.
- [16:37]
Harry Littman
Higher tariffs have begun to show through.
- [16:39]
Norm Ornstein
More clearly to prices of some goods.
- [16:41]
Harry Littman
But their overall effects on economic activity and inflation remain to be seen.
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Ari Melber
That can't be comforting with consumers staring down back to school and the holiday season.
- [16:53]
Glenn Ivey
Consumers are obviously very nervous about this, particularly middle class and moderate income consumers. We see that at our own Navy Federal Credit Union from our members. A lot of people are holding more money right now in their checking account out of nerves. But what's going on overall, we're going to get another read on inflation first thing tomorrow morning. That is expected to go a little bit higher. But so far, companies, including Ford that you referenced are mostly eating those costs. And that's why Ford reported, you know, its profits were way down. And because they are having to eat these higher costs right now, they are not able to pass them along to consumers. What we're seeing in our credit union is a huge rush of people going into used cars. They do not, they can't afford, you know, the average car price right now is almost $50,000. There's just not a lot of people who can afford that right now.
- [17:49]
Ari Melber
Explain something to me. You said that Ford is eating those costs because they can't pass them along. To the consumer. Why is that? I thought that companies did that just automatically. Hey, prices have gone up on our materials. We'll just pass that on to the consumer.
- [18:07]
Glenn Ivey
Yes, you're right. That's ultimately the goal and that's what they like to do. They can't eat those costs forever. But right now, demand really nosedived for cars. You may remember there was a huge spike in March. Everyone was trying to buy their car before the tariffs came into effect. But we've seen a pretty big slump in car sales and truck sales this spring and early summer. As I was referencing at Navy Federal Credit Union, we've seen people rushing into used cars. So if they're going to buy anything, they're just automatically going to the used car lot. That's why the companies like Ford, Stellantis, Chrysler, they're all struggling a little bit right now to pass, certainly to pass the full cost on. Some people, Jonathan, are calling it sneakflation, the idea that these costs will be passed along, but they're going to try to sneak it in over time so people don't notice as much.
- [19:01]
Ari Melber
Speaking of sneak, I'm going to sneak in one more question, Heather. What do you think the likelihood is that Trump chickens out and delays tariffs again on Friday?
- [19:11]
Glenn Ivey
Well, I don't know if it'll happen exactly on Friday, but the reality is so far every day, trade truce, trade agreement, trade framework, whatever you want to call these has been lower than expected. So there has been, I don't know if you want to call it chickening out or bargaining or what, but there has ultimately been some pullback. So if it doesn't happen on August 1st, I do anticipate that it will happen in the coming weeks where we see a pullback from those worst case scenarios.
- [19:41]
Ari Melber
Heather Long, great to see you. Thank you very much for coming back to the last word.
- [19:46]
Glenn Ivey
Thank you. Take care.
- [19:47]
Ari Melber
And coming up, Donald Trump and Republicans are already scheming ways to maintain control of Congress in the midterm elections. One way is through gerrymandering districts in Texas to make Democrats fight for control of their seats. Our next guest, Congresswoman Julie Johnson, is one Democrat who would be impacted by a new GOP district map if it passed. That's next.
- [20:14]
Jen Psaki
MSNBC's Jen Psaki, host of the Briefing.
- [20:17]
Jonathan Capehart
We've never experienced a moment like this in our country and it leaves us all with a choice. Are we gonna speak out or are we gonna be pressured into silence? I've worked for presidents. I've faced the tough questions from the press and even threats from the Kremlin. And if there's one thing I've learned, it's that you can't cower to bullies. You don't need to be hopeless. We have our voices, and I will continue using mine.
- [20:37]
Jen Psaki
The Briefing With Jen's Tuesday through Friday at 9pm Eastern on MSNBC. Start your day with the MSNBC Daily Newsletter. Each morning, read sharp insights from the voices you trust. Catch standout moments from your favorite shows.
- [20:54]
Jonathan Capehart
The second Trump administration has gone to unprecedented lengths to radically transform America.
- [20:59]
Jen Psaki
Stay up to speed with our latest podcasts and documentaries, and get fresh perspectives from experts shaping the news. It's everything you love about MSNBC delivered to your inbox. Sign up now@msnbc.com.
- [21:17]
Ari Melber
Donald Trump knows that Republican control of Congress is in serious jeopardy next fall, so he and his fellow Republicans are already scheming a way to maintain power, the Texas Tribune reports. Texas GOP lawmakers released their first draft of the state's new congressional map Wednesday, proposing revamped district lines that attempt to flip five Democratic seats in next year's midterm elections. This unusual mid decade redistricting comes after a pressure campaign waged by President Donald Trump's political team in the hopes of padding Republicans narrow majority in the U.S. house. Right now, Texas Republicans hold 25 of the state's 38 House seats. The Texas GOP's new map would target five districts currently held by Democrats, moving the line so that 30 of Texas 38 districts would have voted for Trump in the 2024 presidential election. Now, gerrymandering is nothing new. Both parties do it. But it's the timing and nature of this Texas redistricting which shows just how brazen Donald Trump and the Republicans are being with this gambit. Here is the Democratic vice chair of the Texas Congressional Redistricting Committee during their meeting earlier this week.
- [22:38]
Heather Long
Mid decade redistricting is unusual.
- [22:42]
Ari Melber
It's unnecessary.
- [22:44]
Heather Long
We are required to redraw the district boundaries every 10 years following the census.
- [22:50]
Ari Melber
But that's not what this is, y'.
- [22:51]
Julie Johnson
All.
- [22:52]
Ari Melber
This right here is a racist attack.
- [22:54]
Heather Long
On congressional districts of color. It's about taking power away from black and brown communities. It's about erasing your voices. This effort to change the districts again has nothing to do with representing people better. It's the opposite of that. It's a power grab at the expense of black and brown communities.
- [23:21]
Ari Melber
If this proposed map passes the Republican controlled Texas legislature, several Democrats will be fighting to save their seats in Congress, NBC News reports. The lines in the newly proposed maps Cut into the South Texas congressional districts currently held by Democratic Congressmen Henry Cuellar and Vicente Gonzalez. The Dallas area district held by Congresswoman Julie Johnson, and Houston area district held by Congressman Al Green. The newly proposed lines also effectively combine the Austin area districts held by Democratic Congressman Greg Cassar and Lloyd Doggett. Joining us now is Democratic Congressman Julie Johnson of Texas. She is a member of House Foreign Affairs, Homeland Security and Administration Committees. Congresswoman, as I just mentioned, your district is one of those that would be changed if this congressional map is passed. What was your reaction when you saw it for the first time?
- [24:19]
Jonathan Capehart
It's just an outrageous, you know, racist, partisan grab on the voters of the state of Texas. If you look at my congressional seat, for example, Texas 32, it's currently contained predominantly within the boundaries of Dallas County. It basically cuts the top sliver off and takes it across six counties almost to the Louisiana Texas line, over 200 miles to be able to disenfranchise voters of color in my district. And they dismantle Tarrant county as well, really piecing it apart. And then Austin, it's the most ridiculous thing that takes that downtown Austin and pairs it almost as far east as my district goes.
- [25:00]
Ari Melber
Democrats in the state legislature are threatening to flee the state as a way to prevent this map from being adopted. A similar tactic failed when Texas Democrats tried to block a Republican voting law in 2021. Can Texas state Democrats stop this map before the 2026 election?
- [25:19]
Jonathan Capehart
Well, they certainly have a lot of tools at their disposure. You know, I was in the Texas Legislature before coming to Congress, and a lot of them are my dear friends, and I fought with them on Quorum Break. So I understand what's involved in that. And they can absolutely do it. You know, they can certainly delay, delay these maps. They have other tools as well. They can try to amend the maps and debate the maps and do other things. But we also have national pressure to bear. You know, California can absolutely redistrict their maps. There's maps floating around that show California could redistrict every single one of their Republicans out and keep them in a Harris plus 14 seats. So this is a more than a Texas fight. This is a national Democratic fight. And Democrats across the country all need to get engaged in this.
- [25:59]
Ari Melber
Oh, you just told me something I didn't know about California. Congressman, if this map passes the one in Texas, it will most likely be challenged in court. Do you have any faith that that will do anything now that Donald Trump has reshaped the judiciary?
- [26:14]
Jonathan Capehart
Well, there's no doubt that this map clearly is a violation of the Voting Rights Act. It absolutely marginalizes, disenfranchises all people of color and voters of color and communities of interest. There's absolutely no doubt that this map is unconstitutional. I mean, I've been practicing a lot for 30, 33 years, and in my opinion, this is a blatant racist map. And so the question is whether or not the judiciary is going to intervene and protect our democracy. We've seen certain judges do. So it wouldn't surprise me at all if an immediate judge declared this an injunction and declared this map unenforceable. But we'll see what happens to the appellate process. You know, there's a lot of speculation about the Supreme Court. They're taking up some Voting Rights act cases to see if they're going to uphold the Voting Rights act or not. And so this will be a classic test for that.
- [27:01]
Ari Melber
You mentioned California earlier. Democrats in New York are trying to pass legislation that would allow them to do midterm congressional map changes as well. Do you think that's an appropriate response? I think I know the answer given what you just said about California.
- [27:15]
Jonathan Capehart
Well, absolutely. You know, I mean, at the end of the day, we all need to play by the same rules, and we all. And so if we're going to do partisan gerrymandering, then we all need to do partisan gerrymandering. Democrats can't have fair independent redistricting committees basically handcuffed in the national political scheme when Republican states are doing extreme partisan gerrymandering. So I personally favor a nationwide independent redistricting commission to do fair maps across the country. But if we're not going to do that, if Republicans are going to do racist partisan gerrymandering, Democrats need to gerrymander their states, too. Level the playing field, play by the same rules.
- [27:54]
Ari Melber
Congresswoman Julie Johnson, thank you very much for coming to the Last Word.
- [27:59]
Jonathan Capehart
My pleasure. Thanks for having me.
- [28:01]
Ari Melber
And coming up, Mike Johnson sent Republicans home so they wouldn't have to face Epstein votes, but at home, they're facing voter anger about the cuts to health care. That's next.
- [28:16]
Jen Psaki
Saturday, October 11th. From New York City, it's MSNBC Live 25. Join your favorite MSNBC hosts, Rachel Maddow, Joe Scarborough, Mika Brzezinski, Nicole Wallace, Ari Melber, Alicia Menendez, Simone Sanders Townsend, Michael Steele, Chris Haynes, jen Psaki, Lawrence O', Donnell, Stephanie Rule and more. Visit msnbc.comlive25 to buy your tickets. Today.
- [28:48]
Harry Littman
There are more than 18 million Americans over the age of 65. Most of them have low income. Most of them are threatened by illness and medical expenses that they cannot afford. And through this new law, Mr. President, every citizen will be able, in his productive years, when he's earning, to insure himself against the ravages of illness in his old age.
- [29:13]
Ari Melber
60 years ago today, President Lyndon B. Johnson, with former President Harry Truman at his side, signed Medicare and Medicaid into law as amendments to FDR's landmark Social Security Act. Two programs that reshaped American life by giving millions of seniors, low income families and people with disabilities access to health care. But this anniversary comes just weeks after Republicans enacted the largest cuts to Medicaid and federal health care coverage in U.S. history. Today, 135 million Americans are enrolled in either Medicare, Medicaid or the Children's Health Insurance Program. With more than 12 million people enrolled in two or more programs now, more than 17 million people face losing coverage, all thanks to Republican policy changes in the budget bill Donald Trump signed into law on July 4th. It's no exaggeration to say that for many low income Americans, this is a matter of life and death. The New York Times reports, quote, the expansion of Medicaid has saved more than 27,000 lives since 2010, according to the most definitive study yet on the program's health effects. Poor adults who gained Medicaid coverage after the Affordable Care act expanded access were 21% less likely to die during a given year than those not enrolled, the research shows. By analyzing Federal records on 37 million Americans, two economists found that deaths fell not only among older enrol, but also among Those in their 20s and 30s, a group often assumed to have few medical needs and who would have been far less likely to qualify for Medicaid before the expansion. Republicans are dismantling critical safety net programs, putting the health and lives of millions at risk. The devastating result of a rollback decades in the making. In a phone call with his Vice President Hubert Humphrey, President Johnson didn't hesitate when it came to health care.
- [31:20]
Harry Littman
I'll spend the goddamn money. I may cut back some tanks, but not on health.
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Ari Melber
And with the Republican led House in recess to avoid votes on Epstein, Democrats are already out holding town halls and talking to voters about what the Republican cuts will do to their communities. Joining us now, Democratic Congressman Glenn Ivey of Maryland. He held a town hall today to address the impact Donald Trump's Medicaid cuts could have on his. Congressman Ivey, great to see you. Thanks for coming to the last word. You said that your town hall today was, quote, more than A policy discussion. It was a wake up call. What did you hear from your constituents today?
- [32:01]
Julie Johnson
A great deal of concern. I think there's a lot of confusion as well and uncertainty about what the impact of this is going to be. And because the bill is so extensive, you know, they don't know necessarily all of the ramifications that are out there. And our healthcare industry is enormously complicated, so there's a lot of question marks. But the bottom line, as you pointed out, is that millions of Americans are going to be losing access to healthcare based on these changes. You know, it's almost a trillion dollars in cuts to health, Medicaid across the country. And it's, you know, we're gonna see what the impact of that's gonna be. The other complicating factor, of course, is that the Republicans are trying to phase this in so that the big impacts come after the midterm elections. It's gonna be critical for Democrats to make sure we keep telling people in advance about what's coming so we can use that as a chance to push them to give us a chance to cut the cuts that are gonna be making.
- [32:59]
Ari Melber
Daniel Dawes, an expert on global health policy at Meharry Medical College, told the Guardian that Medicare and Medicaid led to, and I'm quoting here, not only to desegregating, but elevating life expectancy across the states and reducing disparities among racial and ethnic minorities, women, children and older adults, and people with disabilities. Congressman, can you discuss the impact the Republican budget bill could have on the most vulnerable in our country?
- [33:27]
Julie Johnson
Yeah. As we heard today from some of the people in our health care community in Prince George's county and across the state, they're going to have to cut back on services. There may be some shutdowns as things move forward. There might be facilities that get closed in part or entirely. We're going to have tougher. You know, it's going to take more to get doctors and nurses in depending on how much of their revenue streams come through Medicaid payments. So it's going to have a bad ripple effect for sure. And our state isn't able to fill all the gaps. Neither is our county. So the House Republicans and the Trump administration are pushing a lot of these costs down to the states, but we don't have the resources to fill those gaps entirely. And they're all doing it to make sure they can transfer the money from the needy to the greedy for these big tax cuts, the trillion dollars in tax cuts that they want to put.
- [34:24]
Ari Melber
Through what new barriers to enrollment or treatment could this budget create for low income patients?
- [34:31]
Julie Johnson
Well, a big piece of it appears to be the paperwork issues. So the, the work requirements, the so called work requirements are going to be there. And one of the things we talked about today was how challenging that can be for people to keep up with, especially if you're doing it on a recurring basis. I think it's going to be every six months here. And the experience in some states like Arkansas and Georgia, I think were two examples that were discussed have been, you know, a lot of people just lose their health care because they just don't keep up with, you know, the administrative requirements. So that's a big challenge that we're going to have to try and make sure we can, we can correct and prevent, whether it's outreach or healthcare fairs or the like, to try and help people keep up with the paperwork. If they need access to electronic filing capability, whatever it is, we need to try and make sure that we can help them overcome those hurdles.
- [35:23]
Ari Melber
Congressman Glenn Ivey of Maryland, thank you very much for coming to the Last Word.
- [35:29]
Julie Johnson
Thanks for having me.
- [35:31]
Ari Melber
And joining us now is congressional historian Norm Ornstein. He is an emeritus scholar at the American Enterprise and Institute. Norm, what was life like in America for the elderly and poor before Medicaid and Medicare?
- [35:45]
Norm Ornstein
JONATHAN it was a hellscape for people. There was no coverage for large numbers of people, elderly, disabled and poor. And while the healthcare system was nowhere near as robust in general as it is now, they were left really helpless. And keep in mind as well that as people got older, they faced problems that might mean they couldn't live independently. They weren't able to go to nursing homes, they couldn't afford them. They either had to go out on the street or to live with children or grandchildren. And it wasn't just the elderly who were protected by these programs. Medicaid, the single largest component, is nursing homes. It freed up children and grandchildren from that burden as well. So this was transformative both of these programs 60 years ago. Jonathan and one thing I'll say, life expectancy is 10 years higher now since these programs were enacted. It isn't just Medicare and Medicaid, of course, it's other advances in medical research that the Republicans are eviscerating as well. But there's no doubt that people are living longer and better as a result of these programs, and now they're under siege.
- [37:04]
Ari Melber
President Johnson stressed to his press secretary, Bill Moyers, the need for Medicare to be defended in Congress, saying, quote, we've Just got to say that, by God, you can't treat Grandma this way. She's entitled and we promised it to her. Norm, is that messaging around Medicare missing from today's healthcare debates?
- [37:25]
Norm Ornstein
It certainly is. And you know, one of the things that's important here and that I wrote about just a couple of weeks ago in the New Republic, we talk about Medicaid. Glenn Ivey was talking about the Medicaid cuts and you were as well, but little noticed here, is that because the great big beautiful, one big, beautiful, horrible bill actually adds 3 trillion or more to deficits. There is a pay as you go provision that's going to require automatic cuts of $533 billion from Medicare. And those are not necessarily put off until after the midterm elections unless they're reversed. It's 4% of Medicare being cut. And that means that not just seniors, disabled people, poor people, including many who are what we call dual users, dual beneficiaries, are going to be suffering even more. And we have to remember, Jonathan, that we have an odd health care system. It's a hybrid. We have private insurers. We have these public programs. They're all interrelated. When one program gets cut, it has a ripple effect, a domino effect on the others. We had a hospital that closed in Atlanta because they couldn't afford to stay open. Every other hospital suddenly found that their emergency rooms were overwhelmed and their services were delayed or denied. So all of these cuts are gonna have a huge effect and reverse some of the things Lyndon Johnson, a bipartisan majority in Congress, a very different Republican Party back then, even though half were opposed, supported these programs. They're wildly popular. These cuts are mindless foolish and they're gonna have a terrible impact on lots of Americans.
- [39:19]
Ari Melber
Norm Orenstein, thank you very much for coming to the last word.
- [39:22]
Glenn Ivey
Thank you.
- [39:23]
Ari Melber
And coming up, Medicaid is already shaping up to be a critical issue in the midterms. Up next, we'll talk to a candidate running against a Republican who voted for Medicaid cuts despite the fact that nearly a third of his constituents rely on Medicaid. That's next. Nearly a third of the residents of Arizona's second congressional district rely on Medicaid. And on July 3rd, their own congressman, Republican Congressman Eli Crane, voted to cut Medicaid for the more than 270,000 he represents. The Copper Courier reports, quote, two counties Congressman Crane represents Apache county and Navajo county have among the highest county level share of seniors on Medicaid in the US Meaning they could be hit particularly hard by the bill's cuts, the cuts to Medicaid could also have devastating effects on rural hospitals, which often depend on Medicaid funding to continue operations. Now former Navajo Nation President Jonathan Nez is launching a campaign to unseat Congressman Crane.
- [40:35]
Heather Long
We must act now to make life more affordable for our families. Too many people in our district are making important possible choices between filling up the gas tank or buying groceries, between paying the rent or taking a sick child to a doctor. I'm running because I believe we can build a better path forward together. Are you ready?
- [41:02]
Ari Melber
Joining us now is Jonathan Nez, Democratic candidate for Arizona's 2nd congressional district. Namesake, what are you hearing from voters in your district when it comes to their biggest concerns heading into this election?
- [41:16]
Heather Long
Jonathan, thank you for having me on the show. You know, one of the prior primary thoughts out there in our district is the cuts to Medicaid, the possible closures of rural hospitals, and three of those, as you mentioned, are right in this district. And you know, I grew up in this district. I was born in this district, grew up in this district and I'm still here, unlike my opponent who doesn't even live in this district. And you know, we need a congressman that actually knows the issues and that's going to fight for the working class people, not just in Arizona but all across the country.
- [41:54]
Ari Melber
What does Congressman Crane's vote to cut Medicaid signal to people of this district.
- [42:02]
Heather Long
That he's not, he doesn't know the issues here. As I mentioned, he doesn't live in the district. And we need somebody that knows what's important to the working people in this district. You know, in this district it's 60% of the state of Arizona. Out of the 22 tribes, 14 are in this district. And not just in the big ugly bill that's affecting us right now. All those policies for the past six, seven months now is hurting our district. And you know, I want everybody to know that I am going to be fighting for the working class throughout this country in the state of Arizona. Come join me, join our campaign. Jonathannez.com let's take back our country and let's make sure that people deserve and get the help needed. I know there's people that are struggling right now and we should be helping them.
- [42:51]
Ari Melber
Mr. Ned, what's at Nez? I'm sorry. Mr. Nez, what's at stake for tribal and rural communities in this election?
- [43:00]
Heather Long
Well, one thing, we already have two of our radio stations in the tribal community. They're going to be losing funding because of these Doge cuts, and my opponent has voted for that. They utilize these radio stations to get information, especially emergency information out to the community in their own language. And that's devastating. And we're going to see more of these disastrous actions by our congressman. And, you know, I am there with the community members in feeling the impact all the way to the grocery stores, to the gas. And, you know, we just need someone that will fight for our constituents here in Congressional District 2.
- [43:44]
Ari Melber
Jonathan Nez, Democratic candidate for Arizona's 2nd Congressional District. Thank you for coming to the Last Word. Good luck on the campaign trail.
- [43:52]
Heather Long
All right. Thank you, John.
- [43:54]
Ari Melber
Let's warrior up and we'll be right back. That is tonight's Last Word. Hey, everyone, it's Chris Hayes. This week on my podcast, why Is this Happening? Former senior policy advisor at the National Economic Council, Aya Ibrahim.
- [44:09]
Jonathan Capehart
I don't think that any American is going to bed being worried about who has the most compute, who has the.
- [44:13]
Harry Littman
Highest number of GPUs, US or China.
- [44:16]
Jonathan Capehart
That's not what people are worried about. They're worried about housing, healthcare, education, job opportunities. So to the extent that AI is evil, either an enabler or an obstacle to those things, that is what I think they will end up worrying about.
- [44:30]
Ari Melber
That's this week on why is this Happening? Search for why is this Happening? Wherever you're listening right now, and follow.