← The Last Word with Lawrence O’Donnell
The Last Word with Lawrence O’Donnell
Trump’s purge of the federal government reaches the FBI & Justice Dept.
00:42:13
Tonight on The Last Word: A second federal judge blocks Donald Trump’s funding freeze. Also, Trump’s Justice Department fires dozens of prosecutors of January 6 cases. And Tulsi Gabbard’s confirmation is in jeopardy after a testy hearing. Rep. Eugene Vindman, David Rhode, Joyce Vance, and Tom Nichols join Ali Velshi.
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- [00:01]
Rachel Maddow
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- [00:31]
Ali Velshi
Now it is time for the last word with our dear friend Ali Velshi, who's been working overtime all day and all night. Good evening, Ali. I wish I were not working overtime on plane crashes. I have to tell you that Philadelphia Northeast Airport is where I trained to talk to air traffic control because I flew out of a little airport out of Philadelphia which didn't have a control tower. It was like a little rural airport. So you have to train to talk to air traffic control, which is really hard. It sounds normal, but they all have their own language and that's where I trained to do this. And one of the things they train you for in flying is how to declare an emergency. There's ways to do it on the control panel. You squawk a signal, 7700 to say distress. You say mayday, you say pan, pan, pan. If it's not life threatening. We're seeing air traffic control logs now. And none of that happened, which means that they did not get a warning. Air traffic control lost, lost communications with this airplane. And there was no, at least as of now. And these things change and develop in breaking news stories, but there was no warning. So it's a sad, sad story in the air and on the ground where fires continue to burn. And thank you for your great coverage of it tonight. Well, you too, Ali. We're lucky to have you here, my friend. Good luck. Thank you. You have a good night and we'll see you next week. Me, too. And we are continuing to monitor the small plane crash in Northeast Philadelphia. We'll bring you any news as we learn it. That said, 2.2 million people boarded a plane in America yesterday, and that's the day after the deadliest crash in, in 24 years in this country. And that's because in America, generally speaking, planes don't crash the same way twice. At least commercial planes don't. The NTSB and the FAA make sure of that. The expert investigations and the investigators at the NTSB are already collecting the evidentiary minutiae that are going to allow them to write a detailed and accurate report of what happened on Wednesday night. It's going to come out very quickly, probably in the next few months. They always ask for a year, but it often doesn't take a year. And by the way, there are now NTSB investigators looking into what just happened in Philadelphia a couple of hours ago. But the reason we, we get on these planes after accidents, the reasons why Americans got their suitcases on Thursday morning and boarded planes in America, people were calling American Airlines and Delta and United saying, is my flight still on? Because they wanted to get on the plane to get to where they have to do, because that's how we do business in America. The reason people went to Reagan National Airport in Washington the morning after that crash is because we trust that these systems will work. The NTSB is investigating the plane crash tonight in Philadelphia. So that we know what happened. And as a result of knowing what happened, changes may be made. Changes to training, changes to the way airplanes operate, changes to air traffic control. That's government. All countries have governments. Americans are, we have been so far lucky enough to live with the government of a confident democracy. Stuff works in safe and predictable ways. And when something happens like what happened on Wednesday and something doesn't work in a predictable way, we take this very seriously and we try to get to the bottom of it. That's what has historically happened. But Donald Trump's shtick is that the government is a deep state swamp. The NTSB and the FAA and American airports are the government. And the way, you know, government isn't. What Trump pretends it is, is that you book the flight and you board the plane even after a crash, and you, generally speaking, don't have to think about it. The NTSB is an independent, bipartisan board, 58 years as the gold standard. Our job is to find the facts, but more importantly, our job is to make sure this tragedy doesn't happen again. Regardless of what anyone may be saying, our investigators never want to see this happen again. And I never want to have to.
- [04:41]
Eugene Vindman
Go back and brief another set of family like that.
- [04:44]
Ali Velshi
It is the gold standard. The NTSB actually offers its services up to other countries when they have plane crashes or train crashes or whatever happens, they help them learn the best practices because it is the gold standard. This is what the nonpartisan administrative state provides to us, whether we realize it or not, whether you think you want it or not. You might think you don't like government. The federal government's got nothing to do with you. That's the federal government, the ntsb, the faa, the airports. And that's the point. When it works, we don't have to think about it at all. That's why some people don't like government, because they don't have to think about it. That's what government in a confident democracy provides to you, the citizen, the luxury to not have to think about government. That is the compact. You get on the plane and you get on with your life. You don't even have to think about it. And it's important to say this so you understand why Donald Trump's foray to the briefing room the day after the crash was so out of the boundary of normal. Donald Trump went to the briefing room as dive crews were literally pulling bodies of victims out of the water and implied, in effect, that 67 people were dead because of diversity. The FAA is actively recruiting workers who suffer severe intellectual disabilities, psychiatric problems and other mental and physical conditions under a diversity and inclusion hiring initiatives spelled out on the agency's website. Can you imagine? Among the conditions he blamed, by the way, was dwarfism. Yes, dwarfism. Here is Donald Trump, the president of the United States, at the warhouse at the White House, railing about a fake non problem that didn't kill anyone. But he wants you to think about that. He wants you to worry about that, to worry that somehow diversity at the FAA or the NTSB or whatever it is is going to somehow harm you rather than looking at what actually happened. A plane crashes and Trump wants you to think that the problem is diversity and that only he can fix the problem. And today the administration made a big show of ending pronouns and canceling Black History Month in federal agencies, whatever that means. And Trump directing attention there points attention from real questions that need to be answered this week, like these. Number one, was the control tower not fully staffed at the time of the crash in Washington, as reported by the Federal Aviation Administration in a preliminary safety report? Specifically, was the controller on duty doing a job that is normally done by two people? Number two, why did the Trump administration fire members of the Aviation Security Advisory Committee? Number three, in light of this tragedy in Washington, does the president understand that fully staffing federal agencies can in fact be a matter of life and death for ordinary Americans as he plans to reverse his unilateral decision to decimate the civilian federal workforce? Number four, did Elon Musk play a role in the removal of the former FAA director who had bipartisan support? Number five, why was a replacement to lead the FAA not named until after the crash? Number six, did the federal government authorize a Blackhawk helicopter to fly in a commercial flight path at the same altitude as a commercial Aircraft Number seven. If so, will the federal government continue authorizing military helicopters to fly in commercial flight paths at the same altitude as the commercial aircraft on which you fly? Number eight, Will the President, the Vice President, the Defense Secretary and the Transportation Secretary cooperate with the independent nonpartisan NTSB investigation and correct any misinformation that they have already spread about the crash, including that it was caused by DEI and potentially dwarfism? Those are the relevant questions that were asked by the Governor of Illinois. Congressman Jamie Raskin, the ranking member on the Judiciary Committee noted, quote, Donald Trump should recall that on the day of this tragic accident, the first commercial airline crash since 2009, the United States had no FAA administrator. In fact, the FAA was left left rudderless for 10 days leading up to the deadly crash because apparently co President Elon Musk aggressively demanded the ouster of the FAA chief who previously had the temerity to hold SpaceX to account for safety violations. Trump and the first Broligarch billionaire drove the FAA director out of his job on Inauguration Day. This gross mismanagement comes as Trump and Musk wage a relentless attack on federal workers. Do not hold your breath for Donald Trump to come back to the briefing room to talk about that. It seems undeniable that America under this administration took a step away from, from confident democracy this week. Just get on the plane and fly. It's going to be okay. The confirmation of Pete Hegseth as the defense secretary by J.D. vance's tie breaking vote last Friday night was the start of a parade of the most unqualified nominees ever to be steamrolled into cabinet and top level positions. Robert Kennedy Jr. Tulsi Gabbard, cash Patel. In fact, if you followed these hearings like I did, let me tell you something. There was no news in those hearings because the news is that those candidates showed themselves to be exactly who we knew they are. Believe them when they tell you who they are the first time. Believe them when they tell you who they are a second time. In Senate confirmation hearings given the chance to clarify things that will endanger the country, they evaded, they deflected, they denied their own words when confronted with them, with records, with recordings, with dates. Tonight there's breaking news about large firings of career FBI agents, station chiefs, field chiefs. We're not talking about Jack Smith's prosecution team. Jack Smith and his prosecution team knew full well after the election they were all going to be out of a job. You can agree with that or not agree with that, but that we knew that was going to happen. Current and former FBI officials tell NBC News that Trump administration officials have forced out all six of the FBI's most senior executives and multiple heads of various FBI field offices across the country. They include the high profile leader of the Washington, D.C. field office. What was his offense? He was involved in the prosecutions of President Donald Trump. NBC's Kendallanean reports that the purge also includes more than 20 special agents in charge, including in Miami and Washington, D.C. new governments come with policy shifts. We all know that. We expect that may not be the people you voted for, but you know things are going to change. This is not a policy shift. This is a purge. And we're going to have much more on that coming up because it's not just happening at the FBI. Here's today's breaking news from the Treasury Department as reported by the Washington Post. The highest ranking career official, not political appointee, career official at the Treasury Department is departing after a clash with allies of billionaire Elon Musk over access to sensitive payment systems, according to three people with knowledge of the matter who spoke on condition of anonymity to describe private talks. Lebrecht, the person who was dismissed, had a dispute with Musk's surrogates over access to the payment system that the US Government uses to disperse trillions of dollars every year, the people said. The exact nature of the disagreement was not immediately clear, they said. What we do know is who that payment system services. It's run by the Bureau of the Fiscal Service, again, an agency you don't need to know about, you just need to trust that it works. It's a sensitive systems control that controls the flow of more than $6 trillion annually to American households, American businesses and other things nationwide. Tens, if not hundreds of millions of people across the country rely on this system, which is responsible for distributing, among other things, Social Security and Medicare benefits, salaries for federal personnel payments to government contractors, grant recipients, tax refunds, among tens of thousands of other funct. It's been a rough week, but there was some green shoots this week, the chaos of the Office of Management and Budget memo and the instant shutdown of Medicaid portals in all 50 states. Donald Trump caved. And as the White House flailed and made excuses, Democrats assembled. Democratic attorneys general rushed to sue. Two federal courts blocked the implementation of that freeze. Democratic lawmakers sounded the alarm about the impact to people in their states, and Trump quickly rescinded the memo. Democrats perhaps learned an important lesson very early in the Trump administration 2.0 an immediate end to health care and preschool for poor kids, plus some arts and education cuts. Elon Musk's Dream Project 2025's stated ambition. Well, apparently Trump was afraid of the kind of disruption that that would cause and Donald Trump backed down. Amid all of this, there is reporting that the all out assault on civil servants is making them even more committed to their mission to be determined, determined to remain at their posts. Civil servants ready to fight even under threat. This is important because my next guest was one of those people. This week the Federal Reserve held its independence on interest rates. The Fed chair Jerome Powell ignored Donald Trump's demands that he put out on Truth Social for rate cuts. I think it's easy to think, well, nothing matters when it comes to Trump. In the Wall Street Journal today, Peggy Noonan wrote that Trump has achieved 100% cultural saturation. Maybe, but he won with 49% of the vote, 4 million votes fewer than Biden won by in 2020. 50% of the country voted for someone else in November. Trump is confused. He's confusing 100% submission by Republican lawmakers as 100% submission by all of us, the rest of America. Because the most important person in America is not the American President. It is you, the American citizen. That delusion, the fact that Trump doesn't know that is going to lead to overreach. Despite the current president, Americans think of themselves as good people. When Trump was asked if he would visit the crash site in D.C. you know, to thank the search teams who've been working around the clock in frigid water that reeks of jet fuel to pay respects to the current burial site of dozens of victims not yet recovered. Here's what he said.
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Tom Nichols
Do you have a plan to go visit the site?
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Ali Velshi
I have a plan to visit, not the site.
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Eugene Vindman
Because what you tell me what's the.
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Ali Velshi
Site to order or to meet with the first responders? You want me to go swimming? That was his response. It's day 11. We are going to see how much more America is willing to take. Joining me now is the Democratic Congressman Eugene Vindman of Virginia. He is a retired army colonel, not really retired because he was done with the army. But you fought back. You were one of these people. You and your brother fought against injustice by this guy, the same guy, Donald Trump cost you your career, but now you have another career and now you are doing something for the American people. This is important. This is for senators to listen to this week because apparently there's no career better than being a United States Senator. The threat of being primaried means that you are just going to go ahead with what Donald Trump wants. Eugene Vindman, you are the one person to explain to Americans nothing is more important than your integrity.
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Tom Nichols
That's true. Ali, thank you so much for having me. Great to be be back. And first thing I'd like to say is my heart goes out to the families of the passengers and crew of the American Airlines flight and the Blackhawk helicopter. And I'm also grateful to the first responders out of the 7th congressional district, my district, local fire truck 23 who are operating fireboat 512 throughout the rescue and recovery period. They're out there in the most difficult conditions. So I spoke to the fire chief. I'm grateful for their work. They're magnificent. The second thing I would say is that, you know, the buck stops with the President. There is no warm up period for the President of the United States. There's no warm up period for the, the Cabinet. He is the President of the United States. He has a cabinet that's in place. If he wants to take responsibility for a raft of illegal executive orders, he better take responsibility for, for being the president and being in charge. When a plane goes down in Washington, D.C. and it's as simple as that. It's on him. It's on his shoulders.
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Ali Velshi
Let's talk about, I want to talk about the courage that it takes to stand up to Donald Trump. There are, there are three Cabinet nominees. First of all, we saw everybody fold on, on everybody, all but three Republicans fold on Pete Hegseth. And now we're watching Cash Patel. We're watching Tulsi Gabbard. We're watching RFK junior And there are Republicans who have real concerns. There's a, there's a Republican senator who's a doctor who thinks RFK Jr is just wrong about vaccines. But they're all being threatened with primaries. When you and your brother had to talk about going public about Donald Trump's phone call to Vladimir Zelensky and holding withholding power. I'm pretty sure the two of you, he was in your office. He came to your office and I'm pretty sure the two of you both knew you were going to lose your careers over this.
- [19:38]
Tom Nichols
Look, Ali, we, we had a duty. We're active duty army officers. We had a duty. We were, we had taken an oath to the Constitution and we performed our duty. Our jobs were not as important as our oath to the Constitution and the American people. And you know, when you think about the nominees that we've seen this week, is their one quality is their loyalty to the president. United States it's not experience, it's not judgment, it's not capability. And that's completely reversed from what it should be. These people are being hired to serve their American people, American national security interests, the safety of Americans. But the only thing that, that the Senate is looking for and the President's looking for Republican members in the Senate is loyalty. And that is a complete reversal of the way the situation should be.
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Ali Velshi
But you took a position back then because you felt there was a national security issue. Congress had approved aid to Ukraine. The President does not have a right to not distribute aid that Congress has approved. Which, by the way, is exactly what he did with this funding freeze this week. It's as constitutional now as it was then. And you had to, you risk something by doing that. The problem we've got today is we have people who nevermind their opinions on things, they're woefully unqualified to do jobs that will risk lives. That's the danger here. This is not just a policy shift about whether or not, you know, things you like are going to happen. In each of these positions at the FBI, the DNI and the Health and Human Services, lives are at risk.
- [21:21]
Tom Nichols
That's true. It's national security and safety and the lives of Americans are at risk. And we saw what happened this week. We didn't have an FAA administrator, the President had fired the Aviation Security Advisory Committee. And when you hire or you leave holes in the federal government, when you freeze hiring, you have issues where you have insufficient staff. We've known for some time, frankly, that there are not enough air traffic controllers. When you freeze that situation, you make it even worse. And so you magnify that when you hire completely unqualified people whose only qualification is that they're loyal to you. And I think hate to make potentially a sad prediction, but I think that when you try to break the federal government, you end up breaking it and it will cost American lives and national security.
- [22:23]
Ali Velshi
And let me ask you something about being qualified. I'm so, as I'm sure you could tell, I'm so deeply offended that in the moment where you need the President to come out here and give you the assurances that he's the head of the government, the government does work in America. It's not yet broken. Talking about DEI and dwarfism as there are experts, let the NTSB investigate what happened. You were a government expert. That's why you were at the White House. That's why you did that. You're an expert in your field. You know things, you know that investigations take detail. You and I talked in Kyiv where you were investigating little things that would lead to war crimes prosecutions. Because experts do this. The president comes out and talks nonsense. It does not make me feel better about getting on a plane when he carries on about how it was DEI that caused an accident. Let the NTSB tell me what caused that accident.
- [23:16]
Tom Nichols
Yeah, not only that, but he shirks his responsibility. I mean, I don't know leaders at the most junior level in the military that would shirk responsibility. I mean, if you're a leader, you lead, the book stops with you. He's happy to take responsibility for signing, like I said, illegal executive orders, but he's happy to shift it on other people. It's nonsense. It's totally unacceptable. And, you know, to your point, we've seen this before, right? In, in the first impeachment, it was this impoundment. It was the withholding of aid that the Congress had authorized. The Congress has the power of the purse. I mean, it's a constitutional function. The president doesn't get to decide where he freezes aid or funds from being dispersed. And, you know, I was out and about in my district and I was speaking to farmers, and they're concerned about having funding from the Department of Agriculture for partially built structures or crop insurance or a backstop to bird flu, poultry insurance. There are municipalities that are concerned about not having the funding for police forces. We are not out of the woods on this funding freeze. By, by law, we're not stepped in. And this is going to end up breaking government. It's going to make government less efficient, and it's going to be dangerous to the American people.
- [24:43]
Ali Velshi
You, of course, you and your brother come from places where that's how it was, which is why you're here to fight for how that doesn't need to be the case in America. We have government, it works. We have a civil service, it works. We have a military, that works. We need to make sure that doesn't get broken. Thank you for the work that you're doing, Congressman. Good to see you as always. Eugene Vindman, United States Congressman. All right, coming up, breaking news. The extent of the purge at the FBI is larger and extends to career officials now. We'll get the details next. It comes after Trump's FBI pick says he believes the FBI reports to Trump.
- [25:22]
Rachel Maddow
Auto insurance can all seem the same until it comes time to use it. So don't get stuck paying more for less coverage. Switch to USA auto insurance and you could start saving money in no time. Get a quote, today, restrictions apply. MSNBC Films presents an NBC News Studios production, the story of Oath Keepers founder Stewart Rhodes, leading up to his recent release from prison.
- [25:48]
Eugene Vindman
The government's evidence showed that defendant Stewart Rhodes began planning to oppose by force the peaceful transfer of power, as told.
- [25:56]
Rachel Maddow
Through the lens of his estranged family.
- [25:58]
Ali Velshi
I bet everything on him being locked away forever.
- [26:00]
Rachel Maddow
King of the apocalypse. Tomorrow at 9:00pm Eastern on MSNBC. The first 100 days. Bills are passed, executive orders are signed and presidencies are defined. And for Donald Trump's first 100 days, Rachel Maddow is on MSNBC five nights a week.
- [26:20]
Ali Velshi
Now is the time, so we're gonna do it.
- [26:22]
Rachel Maddow
Providing her unique insight and analysis during this critical time.
- [26:26]
Ali Velshi
How do we strategically align ourselves to this moment of information, this moment of transition in our country?
- [26:32]
Rachel Maddow
The Rachel Maddows show, weeknights at 9pm Eastern on MSNBC.
- [26:42]
Ali Velshi
Breaking news More than 20 heads of FBI field offices have been ordered or be fired today, including the leaders of the bureau's field offices in Miami and Washington, D.C. nBC News is reporting this. But beyond just DOJ leadership, Donald Trump's Justice Department started purging rank and file prosecutors who brought violent January 6th rioters to justice. Their termination letter quoted Trump's comments that the cases represented, quote, a grave national injustice, end quote. At least 174 of the nearly 1600 rioters whose cases or sentences Trump terminated had been charged with assaulting police with dangerous weapons. The acting Deputy Attorney General, Emil Bovey, who served as Trump's personal criminal defense attorney, sent a memo to Justice Department leaders ordering the purge of January 6th prosecutors, revealing that the former President Biden gave these prosecutors permanent status following Trump's election. In his memo, Bovey called their employment subversive. They're federal prosecutors. The FBI Agents association disagreed, denouncing the purge as outrageous. Writing, quote, if true, these outrageous actions by acting officials are fundamentally at odds with the law enforcement objectives outlined by President Trump and his support for FBI agents. Dismissing potentially hundreds of agents would severely weaken the bureau's ability to protect the country from national security and criminal threats and will ultimately risk setting up the bureau and its new law. Leadership for failure, end quote. Now Trump's FBI pick cash. Patel gave this shocking answer yesterday in his Senate confirmation hearings. He thinks the FBI ultimately reports to Trump.
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David Rhodes
Who does the director of the FBI.
- [28:33]
Ali Velshi
Work for, Mr. Patel? Senator, thank you for that question. The immediate report for the director of the FBI is into the office of the Deputy Attorney General. Then that report is taken into the.
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David Rhodes
Office of the Attorney General and ultimately the White House and the chain of command there.
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Ali Velshi
So the FBI works for the White House? No, the FBI is a member of the Department of Justice and has been the long standing application. And who does the Department of Justice work for? They're in the executive branch, as all.
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David Rhodes
Members do at the White House. Attorney General Bondi gave a different answer.
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Ali Velshi
When I asked her the same question.
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David Rhodes
That they work for the Constitution and the American people.
- [29:12]
Ali Velshi
David Rhodes, senior executive editor of National Security at NBC News. He's also the author of the recent book Where Tyranny Begins, the Justice Department, the FBI and the War on Democracy. Joyce Vance also joins us. She's a former United States attorney and an MSNBC legal analyst. Welcome to both you. David, you've been working till literally I just did that intro. You got new information on this FBI situation?
- [29:36]
David Rhodes
Yeah, there's a memo that was sent out by the acting director of the FBI. This is just a career person, really doesn't have much power, but essentially the Justice Department. Emil Beauvais, the acting deputy Attorney General has asked for a list of every single FBI agent in the country who worked on a January 6th prosecution. And the acting head of the FBI sent this, you know, across the workforce, but said that he understood this would mean thousands of FBI personnel who've worked.
- [30:05]
Ali Velshi
On these because it was what was.
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David Rhodes
The largest investigation in American history.
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Ali Velshi
So these FBI agents are not self assigning, just in the way that you and I as journalists are not self assigning. Right. We get assignments from other people, people. It's not really on an FBI agent to say not taking that case.
- [30:21]
David Rhodes
And that's what's so different here and frankly, surprising. This isn't some effort to go after Jack Smith, not that some would argue that's not justified, but this is thousands of agents who are simply doing their jobs and questioning all of the prosecutions related to January 6, every single one of them. And so there will be a review of all of those thousands of FBI agents whether they too should face some sort of action as these people that were ousted tonight, the much more senior people. So it's a much broader approach than I expected. I'll be honest about that.
- [30:58]
Ali Velshi
Joyce, let's make, let's talk about the distinction. Whether it's FBI agents or it's prosecutors, whether you agree with it or not, high level people sometimes get asked to resign and change over with a new administration. Some would argue, and I'm one of them, that that really shouldn't happen, that the civil service is the civil service and that should be it. But Sometimes political appoint get asked to, to, to move on when there's a new president. This is not what we're talking about here. Joyce. I use the word purge because it's going to ranks and levels that are much lower than, than the most senior decision makers either in the Department of Justice or the FBI.
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Joyce Vance
Yeah, purge is exactly the right word for what this is. You expect to see political appointees. I was a political appointee in the Obama administration. You expect to see us leave at the end of the administration. What we're talking about now is career employees and they can only be removed, whether they're FBI agent or prosecutor, for failures in performance and conduct that are documented over a period of time with a very rigid set of protections. None of that was followed tonight. Instead, these people were essentially denigrated. Their character was attacked because they worked on cases that they were assigned to. And you know, I really resent, Allie, the suggestion that these were fly by night cases based on political theories, because they weren't. These were cases that were indicted after presentations to grand juries. These were trials or guilty pleas in front of federal district judges. Some of these cases were affirmed on appeal in the District of Columbia. These were, if anything, close legal issues, the sorts of cases Justice Department prosecutors have been bringing for year upon year. And you never see a conversation about career people being fired. Even when Bill Clinton was investigated and was in fact questioned by Justice Department prosecutors, Bill Clinton didn't try to retaliate while he was in office and order any of them fired because that's what a banana republic dictator does. That's what Donald Trump is doing here. It is a dangerous moment, this purge that we're watching happen.
- [33:13]
Ali Velshi
This is a big conversation and I wish I could continue it with you tonight. We've got a lot of breaking news we have to get to. So thank you both for the news and the analysis on this. David Rhode and Joyce Vance, we appreciate it. Coming up, we're going to get an update on the small plane crash at Northeast Philadelphia Airport. And the fire is still burning as a result of that plane crash, as you know. This evening we're following breaking news out of Philadelphia where a medical transport jet crashed just three miles away from Northeast Philadelphia Airport. PNE it's called about 30 seconds after taking off. At least six people were on board, including a pediatric patient, a girl who had apparently just completed a round of care for a life threatening illness. According to a spokesperson for Jet Rescue Air Ambulance video from the crash site appears to show residential homes on fire. The jet company Cannot confirm any survivors on board the aircraft at this time, but there were four crew, the patient and a person escorting the patient. Six in total tonight. Pennsylvania Governor Josh Shapiro said this about the crash.
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Eugene Vindman
We know that there will be loss in this region and we want to offer our thoughts and our serious prayers for those who are grieving at this moment. The mayor knows, and I want you all to know that the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania stands firmly with our partners in the city. We have, at the request of Commissioner Bethel, 45 state troopers who are on the ground right here in Northeast philly. We have 25 members of our PennDOT team who are here right now. We have members of the Pennsylvania Emergency Management Authority who are here, including our director, Randy Padfield, who joins me behind here. We also have members of dep, the Department of Environmental Protection, who are here to make sure that any hazardous materials are addressed.
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Ali Velshi
Joining me now is Alan Diehl. He's a former investigator for the National Transportation Safety Board. This is the second time you and I are talking this week. Totally different situation from what happened at Reagan national earlier in the week. This is a small plane. Sadly, there are more instances of small plane crashes. But I don't know if you've seen the video, Alan. That plane came right down out of the sky. Not an attempted landing. That, that, that was a full loss of control.
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Eugene Vindman
Absolutely. Ali. The Learjet is difficult plane to fly. It almost reminded me of the Jenny Rivera L crash where it went straight in. It was in cruise, not right after takeoff. But this crew, obviously this, this flight crew, and there's always two pilots on these Learjets by law. And you probably know it's a Mexican registered aircraft. I don't know how the maintenance is surveilled down there. But anyway, the jet looked like it might have been on fire before it hit, but it was obviously out of control. That 65 degree nose down angle suggests a total block of control.
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Ali Velshi
One of the things we brought up on Wednesday with the DCA crash is when a pilot is. When a plane's going down, there are procedures that they are meant to follow. We have nothing, we have no record of communication. The tower lost communication with this plane. It is a towered airport pne lost communication with this thing. There wasn't a, they didn't squawk an emergency signal. There was no mayday call. So something we're not going to speculate because you and I are not in the business of speculating, but something catastrophic happened here.
- [36:59]
Eugene Vindman
It had to kind of like the situation in Washington. Everything happened very quickly on both of these tragic incidents and there were no emergency radio calls, no attempt to take evasive action or in this case, pull a nose up. So it was beyond control. And one of the things that the NTSB will look well, obviously the two recorders on the Learjet that crashed will be critical because the wreckage is highly fragmented and it burned. So, yeah, Ali, they're going to have their work cut out for them to try to figure this one out. But as usual, as usual, the black boxes are the gold standard.
- [37:43]
Ali Velshi
Alan, kind of hoping I don't see you again this week, but thank you.
- [37:48]
Eugene Vindman
For being available under these circumstances.
- [37:50]
Ali Velshi
Yeah, not under these circumstances. Thank you, my friend, for being with us again tonight. Alan Deal is a former investigator for the National Transportation Safety Board. All right, coming up, Tulsa Gabbard's confirmation hearing and the impact a DNI that Gabbard that she could have on America's national security. That's next.
- [38:10]
Rachel Maddow
Auto insurance can all seem the same until it comes time to use it. So don't get stuck paying more for less coverage. Switch to USA auto insurance and you could start saving money in no time. Get a quote today, restrictions apply. Amen on MSNBC is now available as a podcast. Every Saturday and Sunday, host Amon Mohadin reads between the lines of the week's biggest stories spotlighting the pressing issues facing our country, our world, and those fighting to solve them.
- [38:41]
Tom Nichols
We are tracking the fallout across the Middle East.
- [38:43]
Ali Velshi
Tonight.
- [38:44]
Rachel Maddow
Search for Eamon wherever you're listening and follow. And for ad free listening to this show and other MSNB podcasts, subscribe to MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts. Stay up to date on the biggest issues of the day with the MSNBC Daily Newsletter. Each morning you'll get analysis by experts you trust, video highlights from your favorite shows.
- [39:06]
Ali Velshi
I do think it's worth being very clear eyed, very realistic about what's going on here.
- [39:11]
Rachel Maddow
Previews of our podcasts and documentaries, plus written perspectives from the news media themselves, all sent directly to your inbox each morning. Get the best of MSNBC all in one place. Sign up for msnbc daily@msnbc.com.
- [39:30]
Ali Velshi
Can'T we do better than somebody who doesn't believe in 702? Can't we believe that somebody who can't answer whether Snowden was a traitor five times today, who made excuses for Vladimir Putin's invasion of Ukraine, the first time that I'm aware of any American official has done that, I'm questioning her judgment. And he's not the only one. Trump's pick for Director of National Intelligence, Tulsi Gabbard did not appear to help her confirmation chances during her confirmation hearing yesterday. Was he a traitor the time when he took America's secrets, released them in public, and then ran to China and became a Russian citizen? Senator, I'm focused on the future and how we can prevent something like this from happening again. Does Russia get a pass in either.
- [40:24]
Eugene Vindman
Your mind or your heart, Senator?
- [40:28]
Ali Velshi
I'm offended by the question. This war and suffering could have easily been avoided if Biden administration slash NATO had simply acknowledged Russia's legitimate, legitimate security concerns regarding Ukraine's becoming a member of NATO. Did you say that? Yes or no? I believe you're reading my tweet, Senator. Yes is the answer. I believe you're reading my tweet, which is yes, unless you say your tweet. Your Twitter account was hacked. Joining us now, Tom Nichols, professor Emeritus of the U.S. naval War College and staff writer at the Atlantic. You made a comment to me, Tom, a couple weeks ago maybe about Pete Hegseth and, you know, worrying about some of his retrograde views about women. And your point was that we shouldn't even be at the point in the conversation where we're talking about his views about women because he's so wholly unqualified for the job. Tulsi Gabbard's the opposite of qualified. She may be less qualified for this job than Pete Hegseth was to run the Defense Department.
- [41:27]
Kash Patel
Yeah, that's a pretty neck and neck competition there among the various nominees that are up right now about who's least qualified for their jobs. I still think Hegseth wins simply because the size of the Defense Department and his inability and inexperience to deal with that. But Gabbard, I mean, I think, you know, one of the things that has been so distressing about these hearings and you see it, especially with the Gabbard hearing, are any of those Republican senators really behind closed doors, would any of them turn to each other and say, yeah, you know, I'm a little concerned about her views, but she's, she's totally qualified. She's an absolutely credible choice. This is another example, I think, of Donald Trump intentionally choosing people who are unqualified and controversial because he's actually not trying to reform or improve any of these organizations. He's trying to break them.
- [42:22]
Ali Velshi
Except in the case of the Defense Department and the FBI and particularly dni, people could die. And the danger at DNI is that the folks who die if CIA agents in the field die, no one ever gets to know about it, a star goes up at Langley. You will never know their names.
- [42:43]
Kash Patel
But all that is secondary to Donald Trump trying to break and then own the pieces of these institutions. He views the intelligence community as his opponent. He views the Justice Department as an enemy. He loathes the FBI as one of the institutions that was charged with holding him accountable for his actions. And so the idea, I mean, the Republican narrative on this is while Americans have questions and concerns about these institutions, and so we have to fix them and we have to bring in kind of out of the box thinking, but that's not what's going on here. And Gabbard, I think, is really the example of this is not intended to actually improve these institutions, to destroy.
- [43:26]
Ali Velshi
So whether it's the FBI or the Department of Defense, whatever, whatever government, I'm sure we can all, everybody in this country can agree anything can be improved. Every business leader believes that every business should be improved. That's not the debate. The debate's not partisan. The debate's not about whether we can even be more efficient about the whole thing. It's whether you're actually going to run it or break it. Tulsi Gabbard was asked basic questions about Syria and about Russia, and they're layups. And yet she couldn't answer them properly because in the past, she has taken the wrong position. She has taken the position that Vladimir Putin has, that you forced us into this war, you forced us to take over Ukraine. That's BS, right?
- [44:08]
Kash Patel
Kash Patel, during his hearing, at least had the presence of mind to kind of make stuff up. Well, you know, I don't know who the people are I talk to. And of course, I would never do all the things I said I was going to do. Gabbard, strangely enough, just dug in on some really damaging positions, including Snowden. When you're asked, do you think Edward Snowden's a traitor? And your answer is, well, I'm focused on the future. Then clearly your answer is no, I don't think Edward Snowden's a traitor, or I would have said so. And I think that, again, I don't think Donald Trump or anybody in the administration really cares about that. They care that she's going to go in there and, and as they're hoping with other nominees that she's going to induce chaos, paralyze these institutions and make them subservient to Donald Trump.
- [44:59]
Ali Velshi
Well, in the meantime, the rest of us better care about it because it's our country and our safety that is at risk here. Tom, thanks. As always Tom Nichols. We'll be right back. And that's tonight's last word.
- [45:14]
Rachel Maddow
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