← The Last Word with Lawrence O’Donnell
The Last Word with Lawrence O’Donnell
Velshi: Trump ‘shattering’ status of U.S. as a global superpower
00:42:12
Tonight on The Last Word: The Wall Street Journal reports Donald Trump privately acknowledged his tariffs could spark a recession. Also, a federal judge demands updates on the efforts made to return a deported Maryland man. Plus, Democrats seek to keep the momentum against the Trump agenda with the House and Senate in recess. And Trump sends a special envoy to meet with Vladimir Putin in Russia. Robert Reich, Laurence Tribe, Rep. Joe Neguse, Leah Greenberg, and Amb. Michael McFaul join Ali Velshi.
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- [00:00]
Ali Velshi
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- [00:16]
Unknown Political Figure
The wrongs we must right, the fights we must win. The future we must secure together for our nation. This is what's in front of us. This determines what's next for all of us. We are Marines. We were made for this.
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Ali Velshi
Now it's time for the last word with the great Ali Velshi. Good evening.
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Robert Reich
It was a year. This week has been something else. But that thing that Marco Rubio said about being able to expel legal residents in the United States based on expected beliefs and statements, you know, I have this, this band book club every Saturday and we, we deal with these dystopian novels like the Handmaid's Tale or 1984. It's dystopian stuff, right? We're going to, we're going to make determinations.
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Ali Velshi
They're telling you if you are legally in the United States, you are here legally. It's not that they're saying this is going to be the, the way they, like, prioritize which people who are here.
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Robert Reich
Illegally, they're going to.
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Ali Velshi
If you're here legally in the United States, if we think you're about to think a bad thought, that is the reasonable justification on which the United States government will arrest you and throw you out of this country.
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Robert Reich
I mean, they used the words they talked about expected beliefs and statements, things.
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Ali Velshi
You have not yet thought, things you have not yet said. But we think you might. That's the reason.
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Robert Reich
So what's the logical conclusion? That you watch what you say, you watch what you think. You don't get influenced in a debate or a discussion or an argument. You don't read books that are contrary to what you. I mean, play this out from an educational perspective, from a societal perspective, from a politics perspective, it's awfully dangerous stuff.
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Ali Velshi
Yeah, I mean, I don't know how to control what I haven't yet thought, let alone what I haven't yet said. But that's what you need. That's the kind of control you need to be able to exert in order for Marco Rubio to not arrest you.
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Robert Reich
It's just the only saving grace is that the, the Education Secretary said that children will have A1 sauce everywhere, which I thought was fantastic, because I love A1 sauce. I didn't know what you were saying. I didn't catch the fact that that was. I. I just thought they're all getting A one. That's fantastic.
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Ali Velshi
I just feel like, you know what, if nothing else, the stupid news this week does sound delicious.
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Robert Reich
And it does sound delicious. You have a great weekend. Get some rest because it was a year. See you, my friend.
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Ali Velshi
I need it. Thanks.
- [02:49]
Robert Reich
We have made it not only to a week that felt like a year, but one of the most turbulent weeks that Wall street has ever seen as Donald Trump caved in. We saw a couple of strong days in the market this week, but not strong enough to get markets back to. And by the way, your 401k back to where it was before Donald Trump's tariffs created the chaos in the global markets starting about eight days ago. China has now raised its retaliatory tariff on US imports to 125%. Today, the White House announced that Donald Trump is ready to make a deal with China. The President has made it very clear he's open to a deal with China.
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Unknown Political Figure
Why is he optimistic that China is going to make a deal or wants.
- [03:28]
Robert Reich
To make a deal? If they're not talking, where's that optimism? He's optimistic. Well, that's okay. That seemed to be enough to revive investor confidence. This morning, Donald Trump posted, quote, we're doing really well on our tariff policy. Very exciting for America and the world. It's moving along quickly, end quote. Well, it's moving along quickly is the only part about that that is true. The rest of it is gaslighting. There does not actually appear to be a tariff policy, at least not one that can stand the test of being in place for more than a few days. And Americans aren't buying Donald Trump's nonsense. In fact, speaking of buying things, you know, that thing that keeps our economy running. Consumer sentiment fell for the fourth straight month according to the University of Michigan's Gold Standard Consumer Survey. In a statement, the director of the survey said, quote, sentiment has now lost more than 30% since December 2024amid growing worries about trade war developments that have oscillated over the course of the year. Consumers report multiple warning signs that raise the risk of recession. Expectations for business conditions, personal finances, income inflation and labor markets all continue to deteriorate this month, end quote. CEOs are raising the alarm. JPMorgan Chase's Jamie Dimon is predicting a 50% chance of a recession today. Jamie Dimon said, quote, the economy is facing considerable turbulence, including Geopolitics with the potential positives of tax reform and deregulation and the potential negatives of tariffs and trade wars, ongoing sticky inflation, high fiscal deficits, and still rather high asset prices and volatility, end quote. In an interview with CNBC, BlackRock's Larry Fink issued this stark warning. I think we're very close, if not in a recession now. Now this becomes important because we still have inflation. And you fight recessions and inflations completely the opposite way. Talking of a recession, by the way, it's not new to Donald Trump. The Wall Street Journal reports that Donald Trump, quote, privately acknowledged that his trade policy could trigger a recession, but said he wanted to be sure it didn't cause a depression, according to people familiar with the conversations, end quote. It's worth pointing out once again, despite all of Donald Trump's lies to the contrary, Joe Biden did hand him what the Economic Policy Institute called an historically strong economy when he took over in January. None of this had to happen. Trump's erratic tariff stuff, which I'm hesitant to call policy because that would be an insult to policies, have fund managers wondering if Donald Trump is going insane. Tom Lee, the head of research at FS Insights, a financial analysis firm, said, quote, in the last few days, we've had many conversations with Macro fund managers, and their concern is that the White House is not acting rationally, but rather on ideology. And some even fear that this may not even be ideology. A few have quietly wondered if the President might be insane, end quote. Peggy Noonan, a speechwriter for Ronald Reagan, wrote plainly in the Wall Street Journal, quote, trump scared people he hadn't scared before. Mr. Trump this week placed one of the biggest bets of his life. But it was the world's money that was in the pot. That was some kind of ugly, reckless thing to do, end quote. And the ugly, reckless thing leading to a plunging stock market was dismissed until the bond market went into a free fall. Now, this is important, and I understand that most people don't think about Treasuries in the bond market. But think about it this way. Bonds are basically confidence bets on America and the safety, the security and the stability of the American dollar. You buy a bond, you're basically investing in the American dollar and writ large in America. Buying bonds are a sign of confidence in America, particularly when money is pouring out of the stock market. When stock prices go down, institutions, sovereign wealth funds, governments take that money and they buy bonds and bond prices because lots of people are buying them, typically go up. Donald Trump didn't announce his 90 day pause on most of his tariffs as part of some brilliant strategy. He did it. He backed down because investors were selling U.S. government bonds while investors were selling stocks. Doesn't usually happen that way. Donald Trump has said over and over again that his tariff plan will bring manufacturing jobs back to America. What is Donald Trump's manufacturing strategy? How do you build things in America when you can't import the raw materials? The Trump team talks a lot, but they answer no questions. What is Trump's strategy to bring manufacturing back? A factory has to be open in a place, and people have to work there to produce a thing. So who are the people who will build those factories and work in them? What will they build? What does Donald Trump want American workers to manufacture? Are they sewing soccer balls? Are they screwing iPhones together? Overseeing the machines that manufacture socks? Where will these factories be? Names of cities in Ohio, in Michigan? When will they be built? When will they open? What does success look like here? We don't have any answers to any of these questions. Not a single one. Instead, we have economic chaos and confusion on a global scale, thanks to one man. One man who could answer those questions if he had an actual plan. But global investors do not seem to believe that there is a plan. And here's what's ironic. The Trump team holds a medieval view of power and strength. They think strength is putting tariffs on penguins and menacing Canada and taking over Greenland. But in the 21st century, power is economic. And America built this system after two world wars decimated previous world powers. And America has effectively ruled this system since creating it. The American dollar is the de facto currency of the world. The world trades in American dollars. The price of gold, the price of oil, it's all priced in American dol. We are the reserve currency of the world. Other countries see America as a safe investment because we are the last 80 days notwithstanding, a confident and stable democracy. And all of that creates conditions for a dynamic free market economy that is nimble and can adjust to changes. We are and have been a leader in all the things, science, medicine, technology. We have the lingua franca, the language countries use to communicate with each other. It used to be French. Now it's English. Because if you want to do business internationally, you are going to do it in English. That's why kids in China are required to study English in high school. And yet American kids aren't required to study Mandarin. That's a superpower, and Donald Trump is shattering it. The tariff actions have been disorderly and chaotic. They are unsensible The Trump team has offered conflicting explanations for the haphazard tariff scheme. We've watched many of them learn details about it in real time in front of cameras from reporters. If it were about opening a negotiation on trade, then it's illegal to do that under an order for national security, which is what Donald Trump says this all is. It's not his purview to be doing this, it's Congress's. If it's about making factories great again, Donald Trump should be able to answer where those factories plan to open, what they plan to produce, how much the workers will get paid. Because if there were a real strategy, those questions would have answers. Joining us now, Robert Reich served as Secretary of Labor under President Bill Clinton. He's a professor of public policy at UC Berkeley and the co founder of Inequality Media. Bob, good to see you. Thank you for being with us. I am incensed by the stupidity of what we are watching. This is not an ideological discussion. This is not a difference in policy. There is no policy. It's just stupid.
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Unknown Political Figure
It's just stupid. It's just incoherent. There is nothing there. And this is, I think the major irony here is that when Donald Trump took over the economy, as you said before, Ali was pretty good. Most of our foreign policy was not perfect, but it was pretty good. The economy and foreign policy and the country were going in the right direction overall. And now we are in a complete crisis, a crisis that is created and manufactured by Donald Trump by one person. How in a democracy can one person do this much damage in this short amount of time? It's extraordinary.
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Robert Reich
And here's the irony. People manufacturing workers are both Democrats and Republicans. And some have no ideology, some political ideology, and some are nonpartisan. There are lots of times where Democrats will argue for tariffs and to protect certain industries, and other times when Republicans will. This is not partisan. This is nonsense. There are Republicans who don't like this and they're very worried about their political prospects. And there are Democrats who would like certain industries protected. But this is not the approach to take.
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Unknown Political Figure
It's not the approach to take. And we know this from history. I mean, we know that in 1910, in 1930, Congress did something like this. It created a massive tariff system and it made the Great Depression much worse. It's not as if we don't know the facts. It's not as if we don't know history. It's not as if Donald Trump or people around him are completely ignorant. I mean, what they seem to be trying to do is bust the Entire system and why they are trying to bust the entire system. It's like what they're trying to do with our democracy. Why they are trying to bust it is a mystery. I mean, why would you try to must bust something that is actually working pretty well? Why wouldn't you try to improve it? This is what is so tragic and so unnecessary.
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Robert Reich
Let's talk for a minute about the bond market, which is not something we generally talk for a minute about. Most people go through their entire lives without thinking about the bond market. It affects them because it affects the interest rates you pay on your mortgage and things like that. Generally speaking, the strength of the American dollar, the faith in our bond market has not been questioned. It comes up every now and then when we talk about breaching the debt ceiling and our credit ratings suffer a little bit. But generally speaking, that has not been a thing. It became a thing this week. It was very unusual. Something happened. It seemed to be a signal by the world's biggest investors and countries and sovereign wealth funds that that was, we're a little worried about America and its stability.
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Unknown Political Figure
And that's, I think, the point. It's the worry about America and its stability because all of these investors, these all over the world, they want to go into safety. I mean, the treasury bills were the safest place you could put your money in the entire world. Much safer than putting it under your mattress or putting it into gold. I mean, it was the safest place. And the fact that global investors, investors in the United States and elsewhere started to pull their money out of treasury bills indicates that there is a profound lack of confidence in where the United States is going. And that is in turn creating all sorts of chaos. I mean, a lot of CEOs who might otherwise think about building a manufacturing plant, they say, wait a minute, I'm not going to do that because I don't know, the future, the future is now really uncertain.
- [15:30]
Robert Reich
That's right.
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Unknown Political Figure
Cannot run an economy on that degree of uncertainty.
- [15:34]
Robert Reich
What countries would give to have the stability that America has, has built up over these years, and we are squandering it this week. Robert Reich, always good to see you, my friend. Thank you. Robert Reich served as a Labor Secretary under President Clinton. He's a professor of public policy at UC Berkeley, and he's the founder of Inequality Media. All right, coming up, the Trump administration's fight with the federal courts has reached a new level with a federal judge telling them, quote, the court finds that the defendants have failed to comply with this court's order. The Harvard Law professor Lawrence Tribe joins me next. It took less than 24 hours for a federal judge to say the Trump administration violated a court order after the Supreme Court unanimously ruled that the Trump administration must facilitate the return of a Maryland father who was deported. The administration says by mistake. The Supreme Court's unanimous decision, which was issued late yesterday, ruled that Donald Trump's deportation of Kilmar Armando Abrego Garcia was illegal. In very plain language, Chief Justice Roberts wrote Abrego Garcia was subject to a withholding order forbidding his removal to El Salvador and that the removal to El Salvador was therefore illegal. At a tense hearing today with the proverbial ink that was still wet on the Chief Justice's ruling, Judge Paula Zenas grew increasingly impatient with the Trump Justice Department's defiance of her order to provide a plan for his return. Calling their evasive answers, quote, extremely troubling. The judge demanded Trump's Justice Department provide detailed daily updates of their efforts to return Kilmar Armando Abrego Garcia to the United States, writing, quote, the court finds that the defendants have failed to comply with this court's order. Defendants made no meaningful effort to comply. Instead, they complained that the order is unreasonable and impracticable, end quote. So the administration thinks that it's unreasonable and impracticable to ask them to correct what they say is their own mistake. The Trump administration admits that, that it mistakenly sent this man, the Maryland immigrant Kilmar abrego Garcia, a 29 year old father of three who is married to a US citizen, to El Salvador, where he's now locked up in what one federal judge described as one of the most dangerous prisons in the Western Hemisphere. Now that Abrego Garcia is there, the Trump administration refuses to get him out or even tell a federal judge where he is. Stonewalling the judge's most basic questions, including where is Abrego Garcia Garcia right now? End quote. When asked what the Trump administration has done to facilitate Abrego Garcia's release, a top Justice Department lawyer, Drew Ensign reported, responded, according to the New York Times, quote, the defendants are not yet prepared to share that information, end quote. The defendants are not yet prepared to share that information. Quote, that means they've done nothing. Judge Zenas said the judge seemed frustrated when Mr. Ensign suggested that the government was prepared to respond to her request in a written filing on Tuesday, quote, we're not going to slow walk this, judge Zenas said, noting that the demand for information about the government's plan was an issue that the Supreme Court has already put to bed. End quote. The Supreme Court said last night, this has got to stop. Bring him back. The judge scheduled a follow up hearing for Tuesday, April 15, giving every indication that she wants to put a quick end to the Trump administration's game of chicken with the federal judiciary. Joining us now is Professor Lawrence Tribe, who's taught constitutional law at Harvard Law School for five decades. Professor, good to see you. Thank you for being with us. You and I have talked a lot over the years. I've never heard of such a thing. I've never seen such a thing. The Supreme Court came in, told the Trump administration what every lawyer knew, that you're out of bounds, you're doing something illegal. And the administration continues to ignore this.
- [19:41]
Lawrence Tribe
It is quite remarkable, Ellie. We haven't seen anything like this. This is what we were all worried about. The government would drag its heels, would go slow, would never quite say to the judge, forget it, we're not going to obey. They came awfully close to that. And the reason they could do that without already being held in contempt is that the Supreme Court's unanimous unsigned opinion last night had a lot of wiggle room. It said that the government must take steps to facilitate this man's return, that it must be ordered to do so in a way that is respectful of the presidential prerogative of making foreign policy decisions. And so when the government's lawyers are asked, where is this man? And when they say, we're not prepared to tell you, the fact is that they have no intention, it seems, of even telling us whether he's still alive. You know, the prison to which he was supposedly sent is notorious. It's a slave labor camp. If the 13th amendment applied outside the United States, this would be a slam dunk violation of the ban on slavery, because the only circumstance in which slavery is permitted, these kind of compulsory work camps is when someone has been convicted of a crime. But Garcia has been convicted of nothing. The government doesn't even suggest that he did anything wrong. And he's essentially being enslaved if he is still alive.
- [21:41]
Robert Reich
Well, let's talk about the people who don't do anything wrong. The government has launched investigations into Miles Taylor and Chris Krebs, two former government employees who have had opinions, held opinions in the past that are now contrary to what this administration says. Again, nobody accused of any crime. They are launching an investigation, a federal investigation. They made it very public because typically federal investigations are done privately. They made it very public. So now they've said, you are now going to be in trouble for just not agreeing with this administration's policies.
- [22:14]
Lawrence Tribe
It's outrageous and obviously unconstitutional. It's essentially a bill of attainder, naming people, punishing them by driving them potentially into bankruptcy for no reason at all other than that they took positions that this administration didn't like. And when you and Rachel were talking during the break and in between your two hours, you were noticing that the government now takes the extraordinary position that even if you haven't said anything that they don't like or fought any thoughts that they find dangerous, if they predict you will think a dangerous thought or make a statement that they don't agree with, they can target you. And what the Supreme Court did was essentially reject the government's position that it could target anybody and sweep them off the streets for no reason. Because this opinion, as Justice Sotomayor pointed out in her concurrence, this opinion only appears to apply to non citizens, but it applies every bit as much to citizens. Because whether you are a citizen or not, where you were born, what your status is, all can be swept under the rug. If you never get a hearing, if the government basically whisks you away before a court can get a hold of the case, then you might as well claim until, until the end of time I was a citizen, I was a law abiding citizen. But you never get a chance to prove it. That's what makes it so important that going forward, the U.S. supreme Court, if it gets a hold of this case again, and it may well makes even clearer that the basic rule is not you don't have to do anything, you just have to pretend to act. The rule is if you remove someone illegally, you've got to bring them back. In fact, the court said all nine justices agreed that what is required as a remedy is that the kind of fair hearing that this person would have received if the courts had gotten to the case before he was whisked away, is the kind he must now receive.
- [24:42]
Robert Reich
Right?
- [24:43]
Lawrence Tribe
That is, the government can't be in a better position because it has kidnapped him without a hearing.
- [24:48]
Robert Reich
That's the point. If the government has a case against him or the Columbia student or Chris Krebs or whoever else, we have to have due process. When we, when we, when we've given that up willingly, we have trouble. Professor, good to see you.
- [25:01]
Lawrence Tribe
We have a police state.
- [25:02]
Robert Reich
That's right. That's right. Good to see you, Professor. As always, thank you for being with us. Professor Lawrence Tribe. He has taught constitutional law and written the most important books in this country on constitutional law. All right, coming up, Congress is in recess again and elected Republicans might find themselves on the run from voters for a second time as Democrats plan a multi front campaign to channel the voters anger. That's next.
- [25:27]
Joe Neguse
What is the secret to making great toast?
- [25:30]
Robert Reich
Oh, you're just going to go in with the hard hitting questions.
- [25:33]
Joe Neguse
I'm Dan Pashman from the Spork Pole. We like to say it's not for foodies, it's for eaters. We use food to learn about culture, history and science. There was the time we looked into allegations of discrimination at Bon Appetit or when I spent three years inventing a new pasta shape.
- [25:47]
Robert Reich
It's a complex noodle that you've put.
- [25:49]
Joe Neguse
Together every episode of the Sporkful. You're going to learn something, feel something and laugh. The Sporkful from Stitcher get it Wherever.
- [25:56]
Unknown Political Figure
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- [27:05]
Robert Reich
All right, Today marks the start of the spring congressional recess and Democrats are once again taking the fight to Republican held districts. And that was before the Trump tariffs set off fears of a looming recession. Last month's recess saw voters grilling empty chairs when GOP lawmakers refused to show up and face their constituents. This past weekend, those frustrations boiled over again with protests erupting in cities across the country from New York to Chicago to Minneapolis, with people demanding answers and accountability. I stand with many millions of Americans that want to see the end of a dictatorship that starts to take away all of our democratic rights, fundamental incentives, institutions, jobs, health care, education and everything else that we've come as Americans to love and appreciate. So Democrats are ramping up again, announcing another nationwide push this week to confront Republicans where they live and legislate. They're going to districts that are still reeling from the economic consequences of Donald Trump's nascent tariff wars, which disrupted supply chains and jacked up costs. And it left a lot of small businesses brink of disaster. Today, Senator Bernie Sanders held a town hall with domestic workers, some of them who are hit hardest by inflation and economic uncertainty. Tomorrow, Senator Sanders joins Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio Cortez on the second leg of their Fighting Oligarchy tour, starting in Los Angeles. The pair, you'll recall, drew a crowd of 34,000 in Denver last month. We can organize at the grassroots level. We can become strong trade unionists. We can run for school board or president of the United States. We're not going to let the billionaire class have all of the power. So the message today, yes, here in Colorado, in Vermont, in New York, all over this country, hey, Mr. Trump, people fought and died to create a democratic society. You're not going to take it away from us. Meanwhile, House Republicans seem to be giving voters even more to be mad about. They passed a budget resolution that would add $17 trillion to the debt, mainly to extend tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans. Their latest budget resolution now only calls for just $4 billion in spending cuts, down from the $2 trillion in cuts required by the version the House passed in February. Despite that decrease, Senate Majority Leader John Thune reportedly promised to cut one and a half trillion dollars in federal spending. Thune emphasized this commitment in a statement saying, quote, the Senate will have an opportunity very soon to pass legislation that reduces federal government spending by 1.5 trillion do over the next decade, end quote. And now Republicans have advanced legislation targeting federal judges. The bill would bar federal district judges from issuing nationwide injunctions. That would halt some of Trump's executive orders, raising concerns about the independence of the judiciary and some very practical concerns, which I'll discuss in a second. For many voters, The Trump Agenda 2.0 is no longer abstract policy. It's having incredible real world consequences. Your 401k, your immigration status, your ability to stay in this country, what you might be thinking about in the future. And if the special elections and town hall anger from the last month are any indication, Americans are ready for a course correction. Joining us now is the Democratic Congressman, Joe Negus of Colorado. He's the assistant Democratic leader. He's the chair of the House Democratic Policy and Communications Committee. Good to see you, sir. Thanks for being on the show tonight.
- [30:51]
Joe Neguse
Good to be with you, Ali. Thanks for having me.
- [30:53]
Robert Reich
Let's talk about this judges thing, the not allowing federal judges to impose nationwide orders. There's a very practical effect to this, and that is that we don't have enforceable borders between our states. So if the judge says the government can't do X, it's kind of got to apply nationwide, otherwise it doesn't apply to the federal government.
- [31:15]
Joe Neguse
That's precisely right, Ali. And of course, there are a variety of different collateral consequences and practical impacts of that legislation. But just taking a step back, it's symptomatic of, unfortunately, the Republicans attack on the rule of law more broadly. And that, of course, is consistent with the actions that the Trump administration has taken in just the last four months, where they are very clearly on a campaign to undermine and outright attack the independence and the impartiality of the federal judiciary. And so this particular bill that you mentioned that they passed over just the last couple of days is, of course, consistent with that. And I would just say more broadly, it's important to point out the hypocrisy. None of these Republican members of Congress who so vociferously supported the bill said anything about nationwide injunctions that were issued by judges who had been appointed by President Trump against policies that President Biden had attempted to pursue in years past. Now, of course, quite convenient that they've decided that they'd like to take this step, which, as I said, would undermine the rule of law in our country.
- [32:18]
Robert Reich
So, you know, the rule of law concept is interesting, but for people like you and me who have derived from people recently in other countries, this is not what America stands for. Right. The reason America has investments, the reason country companies invest in America, the reason people buy American treasury bonds, is because it's stable, because the law is consistent from month to month and year to year. You don't have a government that suddenly decides it's throwing people out or it's imposing tariffs that they don't have a right to impose. That's rule of law I think some people think about in a very micro fashion. But this is the macro rule of law that makes America what it is.
- [32:57]
Joe Neguse
Yeah, you've articulated that so well, Ali. And of course, it's connected, Right. To the broader economic conditions that our country faces. Right. Rule of law is a hallmark, sacrosanct norm in our country. It's a fundamental part of our constitutional order, and it is a hallmark of a stable democracy.
- [33:15]
Robert Reich
Yes.
- [33:15]
Joe Neguse
And of course, we see right now, given the economic situation that President Trump has created, the catastrophe, the tariff chaos and endangering the dollar as the world's reserve currency. That is connected, of course, to the various ways in which he's also undermining the Constitution and the rule of law. Those are very much not mutually exclusive of each other.
- [33:36]
Robert Reich
What's your sense of what Democrats need to be doing in this moment?
- [33:40]
Joe Neguse
Well, look, I mean, you just touched on the town halls that we're going to be having over the course of the next few weeks as our Republican colleagues abandon any pretense of doing their jobs. They are running scared because they know that the policies that they are pursuing, billions of dollars in Medicaid cuts and tax cuts for billionaires are not defensible. Right. That folks are outraged in their communities and as a result, they refuse to hold town halls. I think, as you know, Ali, I represent a very large district in western and Northern Colorado, spans 13 counties, larger than nine states. I learned early on in my tenure it's important to show up and we host town halls every opportunity we can. We're having another one tomorrow. We'll be having more over the coming two weeks. And as you mentioned, there'll be Democratic colleagues of mine hosting town halls in Republican communities so that those Americans have an opportunity to be heard, to participate in our democracy. And my hope is that ultimately Republican colleagues of mine on the other side of the aisle will stop capitulating to the president and show up in their communities and hear from their constituents.
- [34:40]
Robert Reich
Congressman, always good to see you. Thank you for joining us tonight.
- [34:43]
Joe Neguse
Good to see you.
- [34:44]
Robert Reich
Congressman Joe Negus of Colorado. Joining us now is Leah Greenberg, co executive director of the Indivisible Project, which has been organizing many of the town hall events that we've been seeing over the past several months. Leah, nice to see you. Thank you for being with us. This is not a trick, right. What Jonah, who said is right. If Republicans will not show up for their constituents, someone should.
- [35:05]
Ali Velshi
That's exactly right. That's exactly right. And it's what we've been urging Democrats to do and what we've been seeing them increasingly do over the last couple of months. And really, I think what we're seeing here is that across a whole host of places where we're watching Republicans hide because they know that what they are doing is not popular. They know that if they're forced to answer for it in public, it's going to get messy. And Democrats need to be pressing the offensive or pressing their advantage. They need to be going on the offense. We've seen folks like Chris Murphy, Max Frost, Greg Kassar, Ro Khanna, all showing up in places where Republicans have not been willing to talk to their constituents and doing it for them. And that's exactly the kind of energy that we need right now to as.
- [35:45]
Robert Reich
We'Re seeing with some Republicans, as we're seeing with some law firms, cowardice is remarkably contagious, but so is courage. Right? When people have been watching some of the work you've been doing and some of these incredible rallies, and that one with Bernie Sanders and AOC in Colorado that brought out 34,000 people, it makes people who are feeling a little not sure what to do. It gives them some courage to say, I can get involved, I can stand up.
- [36:13]
Ali Velshi
Well, that's a big part of why we actually called for the Hands off protest. Together with an incredible coalition of folks from across the political ecosyste, we wanted to issue an invitation to anybody who knows that what's going on right now isn't right, is dangerous, is is hurting them or is hurting people they love and say, hey, come out. There are so many more of us than you think there are. What we are showing collectively at town halls, at empty chair town halls, at protests like Hands off is that Donald Trump doesn't have a mandate for any of this Mad King agenda. He does not have a mandate for his legislative tax giveaway to the rich. He does not have a mandate for his unconstitutional attacks on reg people. He does not have a mandate for anything that he's doing. And there is massive, deep popular backlash everywhere in the country that is rising up and pushing back. And if I was at a law firm or at Columbia University or a Republican in Congress, I'd be taking note.
- [37:09]
Robert Reich
I think that is wise counsel. Leah, good to see you as always. Thank you for joining us. Leah Greenberg is a progressive grassroots organization that of the progressive grassroots organization Indivisible. Indivisible. All right, coming up, I for one, never believed Donald Trump when he said that he could stop Vladimir Putin's deadly illegal war in Ukraine on day one of his second term. But we're now 81 days in, and this White House has gotten nothing out of Vladimir Putin. That's next. Hey, everybody, it's Rob Lowe here.
- [37:38]
Joe Neguse
If you haven't heard, I have a.
- [37:41]
Robert Reich
Podcast that's called Literally with Rob Lowe.
- [37:45]
Michael McFaul
And.
- [37:45]
Joe Neguse
And basically, it's conversations I've had that really make you feel like you're pulling up a chair at an intimate dinner between myself and people that I admire, like Aaron Sorkin or Tiffany Haddish. Demi Moore, Chris Pratt, Michael J.
- [38:02]
Robert Reich
Fox There are new episodes out every.
- [38:05]
Joe Neguse
Thursday, so subscribe, please and listen wherever.
- [38:09]
Robert Reich
You get your podcasts.
- [38:12]
Unknown Political Figure
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Robert Reich
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- [42:06]
Michael McFaul
Well, that's right. And I hope it doesn't happen. I hope there's pushback on this. I hope we get some clarity as to how those soldiers got there. Were they intelligence officers spying on everybody or were they there for a deliberate escalation? And I wish the Trump administration would engage in that process. We have our special envoy there in Moscow. It'd be great if he could get some clarity about that particular situation.
- [42:31]
Robert Reich
What do you think's going on right now? None of us thought that this war was going to end on day one of the Trump presidency. We did know where he was going, sort of with NATO. We were all very surprised by the interactions with, with Volodymyr Zelensky at the White House. Where are we now?
- [42:48]
Michael McFaul
We're nowhere, tragically nowhere. And despite all the promises, the Trump administration has not advanced the ball one inch. They keep promising they're going to get just a ceasef. Not the end of a war, not a negotiation, just a ceasefire. That has not happened. The Ukrainians agreed to it, the Russians have not, and their strategy is just not working. Let's just call it for what it is. Their strategy, including by Mr. Witkoff, who I don't know personally, but it doesn't seem like he understands how to negotiate with Putin. Their strategy is just to give him everything he wants. So this latest reporting that you just quoted, they're giving Putin exactly what he wants. And by the way, it's more territory than he even occupies on the ground today. So they're giving him more. They're saying, we're going to get the Ukrainians to leave these four territories, Mr. Putin, so that we can get a ceasefire. And I just find it. I can't find the right word. I just don't understand it. And here's the point I would make. I don't know. Mr. Witkoff, he seems like he's been a successful guy in New York. I have no doubt about that. But, you know, I have a friend who won a Nobel Peace Prize in astrophysics, and yet when I go get to get my knee done, my surgery.
- [44:06]
Robert Reich
Yeah.
- [44:06]
Michael McFaul
I don't want my friend operating on my knee.
- [44:08]
Robert Reich
Yeah.
- [44:08]
Michael McFaul
My neighbor here, she's one of the most greatest experts in the world in AI. But when I need to get my car fixed, my Honda, I'm not asking her to do it.
- [44:17]
Robert Reich
Right.
- [44:17]
Michael McFaul
And the fact that we send this guy Witkoff, who has no experience whatsoever with diplomacy and no experience with Russia, it just means you're not serious about negotiating. And one last thing to add. Putin's been at this for 25 years. He's been doing this. And Lavrov and his team, Ushakov, the people that sit down with them, they were negotiating when I was negotiating with Putin. Mr. Witkoff has no such experience. And I wish we would get more serious. I wish the Secretary of State would get more involved.
- [44:52]
Robert Reich
Sergei Lavrov is the Dean of the international community of Ambassadors. He is the one of the longest serving ambassadors in the entire world. And before the 25 years of Vladimir Putin, he was an intelligence officer. We are, we are, we are playing chess, armed for I don't know what. But we're not, we're not, we're not, we're not putting our best foot forward here. Ambassador, good to see you. Former Ambassador Michael McFaul. Always appreciate your time. We'll be right back. How do you measure a life? How about through the dogs that you've invited to join your family? Tomorrow's meeting of the Valshi Ben Book Club will feature a poignant and deeply honest memoir about a remarkable life measured by different beloved dogs. It's called Good My Life in Seven Dogs by the author and LGBTQ advocate Jennifer Finney Boylan. Told from childhood in the late 1960s with a Dalmatian named Playboy through an adulthood coming out as transgender alongside an aloof retriever mix called Lucy, Good Boy is an examination of mortality, identity, and, most of all, of love. Tomorrow's meeting of the Valshi Ben Book Club with Jenny Finney Boylan is going to be a good one, and I hope you'll join us for it. That's tonight's last word. Finding the music you love shouldn't be hard. That's why Pandora makes it easy to explore all your favorites and discover new artists and genres you'll love. Enjoy a personalized listening experience simply by selecting any song or album, and we'll make a station crafted just for you. Best of all, you can listen for free, download Pandora on the Apple App Store or Google Play and start hearing the soundtrack to your life.