Walter Isaacson (2:27)

Aim high.

Stephen Colbert (2:27)

It's a sonnet of liberty. Albeit, what's the greatest sentence?

Walter Isaacson (2:31)

We hold these truths to be self evident, that all men are created equal, endowed by the equator with certain inalienable rights, among them life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. You know, we know it by heart. But we've never really parsed it and really thought deeply about it. I figure for our 250th anniversary, we should do so.

Stephen Colbert (2:49)

Okay, well, let me parse a few things there. It's, you know, a lot of people think that are endowed by the Creator with certain inalienable rights, but it's unalienable rights.

Walter Isaacson (2:58)

Well, you know, Jefferson, in the first draft, which is like here you can see the first draft. Yeah.

Stephen Colbert (3:03)

We've got a larger copy transcribed.

Walter Isaacson (3:04)

Inalienable. There it is, there it is. And John Adams, who's editing it, transcribes it to unalienable. I like inalienable better. That's the way it is on the Jefferson.

Stephen Colbert (3:13)

Do they mean the same thing?

Walter Isaacson (3:14)

Yeah.

Stephen Colbert (3:15)

So it's a. Yeah, I mean, it's a typo.

Walter Isaacson (3:20)

I'm very weak trying to figure out what's the difference. And then I realized it's a transcription error. You know, they made mistakes.

Stephen Colbert (3:26)

Flammable. Inflammable.

Walter Isaacson (3:27)

Exactly. Unflammable.

Stephen Colbert (3:30)

Some people, and I don't know why, but there's some people I've heard recently saying, well, no, I mean, the Declaration is poetry, but it's not a founding document for us. They look solely to the Constitution. But if that's the case, and I know arguments have been made about that recently as there have been debates about the equality of humans. If it's not our founding document, then why Is this our 250?

Walter Isaacson (3:54)

It's our mission statement. And it's a mission statement that begins by saying we're going to become a new country. And then, even though, as you point out, the mission statement wasn't true at the time, we were all one equal. But it becomes a forcing mechanism for 250 years in which everybody from, you know, four score and seven years later, Lincoln invokes it when he's burying the people at Gettysburg who pushed to make that statement more true. Dr. King invokes it. John Kennedy invokes it. So it tells us what we're trying to be.

Stephen Colbert (4:27)

So as you say, the document itself has inherent in some conflicts because five men drafted this.

Progressive Insurance Advertiser (4:38)

Okay.

Stephen Colbert (4:38)

Three of those five men were owners of enslaved people.

Walter Isaacson (4:42)

Right.

Stephen Colbert (4:45)

Was there any attempt to reconcile that contradiction by the men and among those men as they were writing this?

Walter Isaacson (4:51)

Absolutely, they understood the agony of it. Franklin, who had once enslaved two people in his print shop, realized early on how bad it was. So he's become the president for the society of the Abolition slavery. And if you look at our history, it's that's the original, you know, sin that we have to try to overcome.

Stephen Colbert (5:15)

Was anyone. How did Jefferson feel about this?

Walter Isaacson (5:18)

We know Jefferson had slaves, 400 enslaved people working there. I did not realize. And he did not. You know, when they're all meeting in this room, there's a little picture of it in the book. Is Jefferson, Franklin and Adams on that committee and they're writing it, but there's a fourth person in that room, and that is Thomas Hemings, who was a 19 year old enslaved valet of Jefferson, whose younger sister would end up being the mother of some of Jefferson's children. And Jefferson writes a lot of lines denouncing slavery. So there's this inherent conflict.

Stephen Colbert (5:53)

Wait a second. The guy who's got 400 enslaved people

Walter Isaacson (5:56)

down at Monticello, he's blaming the king for having imposed slavery on us, and then they edit it out. That's why this sentence has so much you can wrestle with.

Progressive Insurance Advertiser (6:07)

Okay.

Stephen Colbert (6:08)

Current lawmakers can't agree on anything.

Walter Isaacson (6:10)

Right.

Stephen Colbert (6:10)

Okay. We're in a partial government shutdown right now. And it can't have been easy for our founding fathers to find consensus, even among just five of them. How did they end up coming to this agreement?

Walter Isaacson (6:24)

Well, first of all, they go through five drafts, and they're beautiful as you see each of them.

Stephen Colbert (6:29)

Again, I'll show this again. This is like. This is an earlier edit.

Walter Isaacson (6:33)

Yeah, that's Jefferson's first draft of the Declaration. And when Franklin, when they get to the Constitutional Convention, he says, look, you know, compromisers may not make great heroes, but they do make great democracies. We're going to have to shave a little from one side, take from the other. We've lost that art of balance and compromise in our country today.

Stephen Colbert (6:55)

Well, you write, speaking of balance,

Stephen Colbert (7:01)

you

Stephen Colbert (7:02)

write that Franklin and Jefferson studied Isaac Newton.

Walter Isaacson (7:06)

They love science. They would have thought you were a philistine if you didn't follow science.

Stephen Colbert (7:10)

And how did Newton influence these ideas?

Walter Isaacson (7:12)

You know, Newton has contending forces. How do you. Balance of power, the contending forces. How do you reconcile things when there are many forces collide?

Stephen Colbert (7:23)

Every action has an equal and opposite reaction.

Walter Isaacson (7:25)

Yeah, that's. Yeah, he has two great laws of physics, and they understand that it's not an all or nothing thing. You have to find the right balance.

Stephen Colbert (7:36)

What's the biggest change that went from, like, draft one to the final draft?

Walter Isaacson (7:41)

You know, one of the changes I like is in the very first draft, Jefferson writes, we hold these truths to be sacred. And you can see Franklin's printer's pen crossing it. Out and putting self evident. But then the sentence goes on. They're endowed with inalienable rights. You see, John Adams would be endowed by their creator with inalienable rights. So even in the editing of the first half of that sentence, you see them trying to balance the role of divine providence and the role of rationality in giving us our rights.

Stephen Colbert (8:13)

So sacred is divine providence. Self evident is self evident. The rational mind can find this without divine intervention.

Walter Isaacson (8:21)

You know, Franklin had been staying at David Hume's house in Scotland, and David Hume is the greatest philosopher of that time. And he had come up with this notion of truths that are there by virtue of reason. So when they say all men are created equal, it isn't that they've gone around and checked, are all people equal? It's saying by reason they should be equal in their political status.

Stephen Colbert (8:46)

Well, you've described this as a birthday present to our country, something for us to meditate on as we think about the last 250 years. And as you look forward to what is hopefully the next 250, 150 years of America. What is your birthday wish?

Walter Isaacson (9:01)

You know, country, you know, I would hope that we'd go back to the founding documents. I'm sure the FCC is going to make you give equal time to John Meacham, but, you know, Meacham, too, has been.

Stephen Colbert (9:12)

Yeah, I just had him on.

Progressive Insurance Advertiser (9:13)

Right.

Stephen Colbert (9:13)

That's why I had to have you on.

Progressive Insurance Advertiser (9:15)

Right?

Walter Isaacson (9:15)

No, no. We believe in the fairness doctrine of having, you know, equal time for historians, if not for politicians. But I would hope that all of us try to go back to these founding documents and, and say, here's the common ground. We can agree we're so polarized now that we forget we have common values and common ground. I remember you're not quite old enough, but 50 years ago, after Watergate, after Vietnam, after the riots, after the assassinations, we had the bicentennial. And even your networks used to have bicentennial moments and they rang the bell and we came together with the tall ships and everything. I hope this year we can heal some of the wounds and try to come together to rededicate ourselves to the next 250.

Stephen Colbert (10:00)

I share you in that hope, Walter. Thank you so much. The greatest sentence ever written is available now. Thank you for listening to the Late Show Pod show with Stephen Colbert. Just one more thing. If you want to see more of me, come to The Late Show YouTube channel for more clips and exclusives.

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