Father James Martin (Extended)

Summary

The Late Show Pod Show with Stephen Colbert

Episode: Father James Martin (Extended)
Date: February 7, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this extended interview, Stephen Colbert welcomes longtime friend and frequent guest Father James Martin, S.J.—bestselling author, podcaster, and editor-at-large at America magazine. The conversation centers on faith during turbulent times, Father Martin’s new memoir (“Work in Progress: Confessions of a Busboy, Dishwasher, Caddy, Usher, Factory Worker, Bank Teller, Corporate Tool, and Priest”), and the human side of spirituality—including humor in religion and the value of humility. The tone is warm, witty, and insightful, with vulnerability and laughter in equal measure.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

Turning to Faith in Troubled Times

• Biblical Comfort:
  • Stephen opens by noting the chaotic and "heartbreaking" state of the country, asking what scripture brings Father Martin comfort in such moments.
  • Father Martin turns to the Resurrection:

    “...the resurrection shows us that, you know, hope is never dead and nothing is impossible with God. So I go back to the resurrection all the time.” — Father James Martin [02:16]

• Doubting Apostle:
  • When Stephen wonders where he’d have landed as a disciple, Martin responds:

    “I would have been like, Thomas. I believe that I need to see it.” — Father James Martin [02:34]

  • Stephen jokes that he'd have feared getting swept up in the crowd (“Free Barabbas!”), illustrating the complexity and humility in faith.

Meeting the New Pope and Church Inclusiveness

• Meeting Pope Leo XIV:
  • Colbert admires Martin’s recent meeting with the new American Pope, Leo XIV, and asks about their topics.
  • Martin shares they discussed ministry to LGBTQ Catholics:

    “The message I got from him was that he's confused Pope Francis’ mission and message of welcome and inclusion, and he wanted that to be broadcast now.” — Father James Martin [03:45]

• Papal Guest Aspirations:
  • Stephen reveals a wish to have the Pope on his show, which Father Martin affirms would make a “very good guest” and jokes,

    “He has a lot to say... He’s pretty holy.” — Father James Martin [04:27]

Lessons from Humble Work and Vocation

• Memoir ‘Work in Progress’:
  • Stephen reads the humorous subtitle of Martin’s memoir and asks what job most shaped him.
  • Martin credits busboy/dishwasher work:

    “I learned how not to treat people because I was treated poorly...when you’re mistreated, you say to yourself, ‘I’ll never treat someone like that.’ So I learned a lot about just kindness and humility and, you know, not being mean.” — Father James Martin [05:12]

• Skill with Humility:
  • Martin mentions his dishwashing skills came in handy even as a Jesuit novice:

    “When I was a Jesuit novice, people actually said to me, ‘You wash dishes very well.’ And I said, ‘I’m a professional.’” — Father James Martin [05:43]

• Ashtrays and 1970s Childhood:
  • Father Martin displays an ashtray he made in Cub Scouts:

    “And so for 50, 60 years, my parents had that, and they would stub their cigarettes out of my face.” — Father James Martin (joking about childhood keepsakes) [06:21]

Discovering a Calling

• The Jesuit Vocation:
  • Martin explains the Jesuit order’s vows and educational legacy.
  • On his own path, he recounts being uninspired at GE and discovering Thomas Merton via television:

    “The documentary I saw was so compelling, it really prompted me to think about changing my life. And I read his autobiography and, you know, one step led to another, and in a couple months I was in the Jesuits.” — Father James Martin [07:32]

Identity and Merton’s “False Self”

• Value Beyond Achievement:
  • Stephen quotes Merton’s “Seven Storey Mountain” on disguising oneself in achievements; Martin agrees, connecting it to his business career:

    “I was trying to pretend that I was a corporate executive and that I really liked it...but it just wasn’t me. And eventually you have to be your true self. Which was a great insight from Merton, which really helped me out a lot.” — Father James Martin [08:13]

Faith and Humor

• Jesus’ Sense of Humor:
  • Colbert laments the lack of humor in the Gospels and asks if Father Martin sees evidence of Jesus joking.

    “If he’s fully human...he has a fully human sense of humor...in Aramaic, camel and gnat are gamla and galmah...it’s a little like wordplay. It's a pun. And you think the disciples must have said, ‘Oh, that's pretty good, you know,’ but we miss the heat...he must have had a sense of humor because he's fully human.” — Father James Martin [08:59]

• Memorable Riff:
  • Colbert describes Peter trying to walk on water as a Wile E. Coyote gag:

    “I'm doing it. And then he looks down and sees the rough waters and he goes, pew. Like Wile E. Coyote, right?” — Stephen Colbert [10:05]

  • They agree Jesus must have at least smiled.
• The Butt of the Joke:
  • Colbert jokes about comedy being at someone’s expense:

    “Am I going to hell, Jim?” — Stephen Colbert [10:49]
    “We live in hope.” — Father James Martin [10:50]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Hope:
  “Hope is never dead and nothing is impossible with God.”
  — Father James Martin [02:16]

• On Humility and Service:
  “Should work in service for a while.”
  — Stephen Colbert [05:10]

• On the Pope as a Guest:
  “He’s no Jim Martin, but he’s pretty good.”
  — Stephen Colbert [04:22]

• On the Call to Vocation:
  “One step led to another, and in a couple months I was in the Jesuits.”
  — Father James Martin [07:36]

• On Identity and Self:
  “Eventually you have to be your true self.”
  — Father James Martin [08:20]

• On Humor in the Gospels:
  “In Aramaic, camel and gnat are gamla and galmah...it’s a pun.”
  — Father James Martin [09:00]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [02:00] – Finding hope in the Resurrection
• [03:30] – Meeting Pope Leo XIV and ministry to LGBTQ Catholics
• [05:00] – Lessons from working menial jobs
• [06:49] – What it means to be a Jesuit
• [07:02] – Inspiration from Thomas Merton
• [08:00] – Conversation on Merton’s “false self”
• [08:59] – Humor and wordplay in the Gospels
• [10:05] – Comic take on Peter walking on water
• [10:49] – “Am I going to hell, Jim?” / “We live in hope.”

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Summary Flow and Tone

The conversation is candid and playful, blending spiritual wisdom with Stephen’s signature humor. Father Martin shares personal stories and theological insights with warmth and self-deprecation, while Colbert navigates between reverent inquiry and irreverent jokes. Listeners receive an accessible, heartfelt meditation on faith, humility, and the ways both laughter and hardship shape a meaningful spiritual life.

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For those who haven’t listened, this episode is a rich, soul-searching yet laugh-filled exchange about vocation, imperfection, hope, and finding the divine in daily life’s highs and lows.

Transcript

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[Stephen Colbert]

Folks. My next guest is a best selling author, podcaster and editor at large for America's magazine, as well as a dear friend. He's also the official chaplain of the Colbert nation. Please welcome back to the Late Show, Father James Martin. Father, it's good to see you. Always good to see you. I always have fun when I'm on your podcast. Thanks for being here.

[Father James Martin]

My pleasure.

[Stephen Colbert]

Little turnabout is fair play. I don't think I'm breaking any news when I say our country is going through some very chaotic, confusing and often heartbreaking time. And as a man of faith, one imagines with a collar and everything that. Are there passages from the scripture that you go to at moments like this that you find most comforting?

[Father James Martin]

Yeah, I mean, as a Christian, I always go to the resurrection. And if you think, as you know, the disciples on Good Friday and Holy Saturday after Jesus crucifixion thought that everything was over and were despairing. And the resurrection shows us that, you know, hope is never dead and nothing is impossible with God. So I go back to the resurrection all the time.

[Stephen Colbert]

I, I'm just curious, when you think back to that period of time, if you'd been one of the apostles, where would you have fallen? In other words, like, would you have like. No, he's definitely. It's going to be fine. You were like, what are we going to do? Like, well, I think I probably would have been Thomas.

[Father James Martin]

I would have been like, Thomas.

[Stephen Colbert]

Yeah.

[Father James Martin]

I believe that I need to see it.

[Stephen Colbert]

Yeah. My greatest fear is that I would have been Free Barabbas. Like, I would have been one of those guys just getting swept up with the crowd, you know, because you get swept up in the times and you sometimes don't know whether you're being swept up in a mob when you are being swept up in a mob.

[Father James Martin]

Yeah. I would not have been that bad.

[Stephen Colbert]

Well, excuse me.

[Father James Martin]

You can accept some morality, right?

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[Stephen Colbert]

Hey. You did something this past fall that I'm. I won't say jealous of, because jealousy is a sin, but I. How about I admire to the point of pain, is that you met with our new American Pope, Pope Leo xiv. Lovely. Love a lovely fellow. What did you guys talk about?

[Father James Martin]

Initially, we talked about ministry to LGBTQ Catholics, which is part of my work.

[Stephen Colbert]

I know Francis. I know Francis. The previous Pope had been open to expanding that ministry. What's the word on what Pope Leo has to say about that?

[Father James Martin]

Yeah, the message I got from him was that he's confused Pope Francis mission and message of welcome and inclusion, and he wanted that to be broadcast now.

[Stephen Colbert]

It's no secret. I was just. Last week, I was on Seth Meyers show over on the NBC, and he asked me who my. The guest I want to have before the show's over. And I said, well, I would like to have the Pope on. I am, you know, I am a Catholic. I mean, it sounds he.

[Father James Martin]

So that's.

[Stephen Colbert]

I hear. Is the Pope Catholic? I know the answer to that one. And do you think he'd be a good guest?

[Father James Martin]

I think he'd be a very good guest, yeah.

[Stephen Colbert]

Okay, great. I mean, he's no Jim Martin, but he's pretty good.

[Father James Martin]

He has a lot to say.

[Stephen Colbert]

Sure. Yeah.

[Father James Martin]

Yeah. He's pretty holy.

[Stephen Colbert]

Yeah. You put in a. Put in a good word for me.

[Father James Martin]

Sure. We live in hope, right?

[Stephen Colbert]

Exactly. Exactly, Father. Exactly.

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[Stephen Colbert]

You've got a new memoir here. I always enjoy your books. This one's called Work in Confessions of a Busboy, Dishwasher, caddy, usher, factory worker, bank teller, corporate tool, and priest. Okay. That's a heck of a resume. I'm curious, what job taught you the most?

[Father James Martin]

I learned the most from being a busboy dishwasher.

[Stephen Colbert]

All right, what'd you learn?

[Father James Martin]

I learned how not to treat people because I was treated poorly and everyone.

[Stephen Colbert]

Should work in service for a while.

[Father James Martin]

No I think that's right.

[Stephen Colbert]

I was. Yeah.

[Father James Martin]

I was on the low end of the, you know, the job ladder and had no power and was 15 years old. And, you know, some people treated me nicely. But you learn when you're mistreated, you say to yourself, I'll never treat someone like that. So I learned a lot about just kindness and humility and, you know, not being mean.

[Stephen Colbert]

Did that feed into, like, when you actually took the Holy orders, like when you went to go be a priest? Did being a busboy somehow inform that?

[Father James Martin]

When I was a Jesuit novice, people actually said to me, you wash dishes very well. And I said, I'm a professional.

[Stephen Colbert]

Okay. The book. Okay. The book is full of wonderful anecdotes, and one of them involves this. You brought a visual aid. Thank you very much. Who is this miscreant at the bottom of this ashtray right here?

[Father James Martin]

That's nine year old Cub Scout me.

[Stephen Colbert]

Okay.

[Father James Martin]

And we made that ashtray in Cub Scouts. So my parents, because we grew up.

[Stephen Colbert]

At a time when at school or in the Cub Scouts, you made ashtrays for your parents? Yeah.

[Father James Martin]

Yes, because everybody smokes.

[Stephen Colbert]

Everyone smokes.

[Father James Martin]

Or your guests smoked.

[Stephen Colbert]

Right.

[Father James Martin]

And so for 50, 60 years, my parents had that, and they would stub their cigarettes out of my face.

[Stephen Colbert]

That's love. That's love. You write about the moment in this book when it inspired you to become a Jesuit. What was it? And before you even explain what that moment was, explain to people who don't know, like, what is the calling specifically of a Jesuit?

[Father James Martin]

Well, we're a Catholic religious order. We take vows of poverty, chastity and obedience. We're probably best known in the US for our schools, you know, Boston College, Fordham, Georgetown.

[Stephen Colbert]

Okay. And so what was this moment that inspired you to take that life?

[Father James Martin]

I was working for ge, a formerly great company, as a corporate tool, as I say in the book.

[Stephen Colbert]

So you were working for the man.

[Father James Martin]

I was right. And I wasn't very happy. And I didn't see a way out. I'd gone to business school and I came home one night and I turned on the TV and there was a documentary about Thomas Merton, the Trappist monk who I know. You know.

[Stephen Colbert]

Yeah.

[Father James Martin]

And yeah. Shout out to Thomas Merton.

[Stephen Colbert]

We have one Trappist here. That's why they only clapped. They didn't say anything.

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[Father James Martin]

The documentary I saw was so compelling, it really prompted me to think about changing my life. And I read his autobiography and, you know, one step led to another, and in a couple months I was in the Jesuits.

[Stephen Colbert]

So One of the things I Love from 7th story Mountain by Merton is that he talks about that we think ourselves are our achievements, that we clothe ourselves in our achievements in order to give the self that we do not know form, so that we might seem to be something or someone to the world. Were these other things that the busboy, the dishwasher, the caddy, the usher, the factory worker, specifically the bank teller and the corporate tool, were those forms of sort of aspiring for achievement to make a self?

[Father James Martin]

Yeah, that's a great question. So Merton talks about, as you say, the false self that we kind of clothe ourself with to sort of pretend that we're cool. I think when I was at ge, I was trying to pretend that I was a corporate executive and that I really liked it when I saw other people, you know, for whom it's a real vocation, really kind of be fulfilled, but it just wasn't me. And eventually you have to be your true self. Which was a great insight from Mertens, which really helped me out a lot.

[Stephen Colbert]

Well, I am certainly very grateful to God for my life and for the world. And one of the things I love about my life in this world is comedy and jokes. And I'm very moved by the gospel. Not a lot of laughs in the Gospel. I mean, it says, you know, as Umberto Eco points out, it says Jesus wept his unsaved Jesus laughed. I've got a couple places in there where I see there was definitely some laughter. And I'm curious whether you've got any moments in there that you think that Jesus was having fun.

[Father James Martin]

Yeah, well, first of all, if he's fully human, which he is and fully divine, he means he has a fully human sense of humor. There's one passage where he talks about the Pharisees strain out a gnat and swallow a camel. Right? And we think, well, that's an interesting image in Aramaic. Camel and gnat are gamla and galmah. And so in other words, it's a little like wordplay. It's a pun. And you think the disciples must have said, oh, that's pretty good, you know, but we miss the heat.

[Stephen Colbert]

And I'm sure Jesus go, pretty good. I'm God. That's a great joke.

[Father James Martin]

That's right.

[Stephen Colbert]

I love that Jesus made puns.

[Father James Martin]

He did. And scripture scholars tell us that the parables would have been back then, laugh out loud, funny. But we don't, you know, we're not first century Judeans or Galileans, so we don't get it. But you know, he must have had a sense of humor because he's fully human.

[Stephen Colbert]

I love it. I think I've discussed this with you before, privately. Is that when Jesus is walking across the water on the Sea of Galilee and Peter and the other apostles are out there on the boats doing their fishing and Jesus is like, yeah, come here. And Peter goes, I believe, and puts his leg over the side and then takes a few steps on the water. He's like, I'm doing it. And then he looks down and sees the rough waters and he goes, pew. Like Wile E. Coyote, right?

[Father James Martin]

Exactly.

[Stephen Colbert]

And I gotta imagine Jesus was laughing when he picked him up. He goes, oh, you of little faith. And puts him back in the boat.

[Father James Martin]

A wry smile. Yeah.

[Stephen Colbert]

Yes. Yeah.

[Father James Martin]

I hope he wasn't. I hope he wasn't laughing at Peter though. That would have really upset me if I knew that.

[Stephen Colbert]

That he was laughing at Peter.

[Father James Martin]

No, I said, I hope he's not laughing at one of the disciples.

[Stephen Colbert]

Laughing with, yeah, there you go.

[Father James Martin]

Right?

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[Father James Martin]

Much better, right?

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Right.

[Father James Martin]

Much more divine.

[Stephen Colbert]

That is. One of the problems with comedy is that somebody's usually the butt of the joke. Somebody loses in a joke. Am I going to hell, Jim?

[Father James Martin]

We live in hope.

[Stephen Colbert]

Work in progress is out now. Father James Martin, everybody. Thank you for listening to the Late Show Pod show with Stephen Colbert. Just one more thing. If you want to see more of me, come to The Late Show YouTube channel for more clips and exclusives.

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