Late Show Book Club | 'What We Can Know' Author Ian McEwan

Summary

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The Late Show Pod Show with Stephen Colbert

Episode: Late Show Book Club | 'What We Can Know' Author Ian McEwan
Date: November 15, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this Late Show Book Club special, celebrated British novelist Ian McEwan joins Stephen Colbert to discuss his latest novel, What We Can Know. The episode centers on McEwan’s exploration of knowledge—what is knowable about the past, future, and each other—in a near-future setting. The conversation covers McEwan's writing process, the inspiration behind his new novel's pivotal lost poem, the role of art in turbulent times, and advice for aspiring writers.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Meaning Behind the Title: What We Can Know

• Discussion (01:45–03:04):
  • What We Can Know reflects multiple layers: knowing the past, the future, and the people closest to us.
  • McEwan describes the novel as "a dialogue with history, with futurology," exploring the future of love, history, universities, humanities, and art.
  • The book blurs genres—"a science fiction novel without the science."
  • Quote:

    “It’s a dialogue with history, with futurology. The future of love, the future of history. In some senses it’s, I guess A science fiction novel without the science.”
    —Ian McEwan (02:18)

2. Setting the Novel's Timeframe

• Discussion (03:04–04:12):
  • Originally set 400 years in the future, McEwan revised the timeline to approximately a century ahead after feedback from a trusted reader.
  • A near and tangible future setting allows for more relatable storytelling and language continuity.
  • Quote:

    “You know a good note the moment you hear it. It’s a matter of recognition.”
    —Ian McEwan on receiving editorial feedback (03:54)

3. Research and World-Building Approach

• Discussion (04:12–04:45):
  • McEwan formerly engaged heavily in research but now draws from his own experiences and memory.
  • At 77, he prioritizes "going down those garden paths into my own mind and memories" over external research.

4. The Function of Art in a Burning World

• Discussion (04:45–06:21):
  • McEwan asserts that literature’s power is less about warning of climate catastrophe (since “we’re in it now”) and more about providing pleasure and fostering understanding.
  • The novel features a future writer who views the present with both envy and disdain.
  • Quote:

    “The function of art, one element of that is to render pleasure to us... another is to open a discussion... trying to understand where we are, what we are, who we are.”
    —Ian McEwan (05:13)

  • Quote:

    “We're in it. We don't need to be warned.”
    —Ian McEwan, on climate fiction (04:59)

5. Inspiration Behind the Lost Poem

• Discussion (06:21–08:50):
  • The missing poem at the heart of the novel was inspired by John Fuller’s "corona" (a complex 15-sonnet poetic form).
  • McEwan details the rules of the corona and its Renaissance roots.
  • Attempted to write portions of the fictional poem but was advised by his reader not to include them, as “you are not a poet.”
  • The decision to omit excerpts maintains the mystique and places the reader in the same position as the characters.
  • Quote:

    “Do not quote from this poem. You are not a poet.”
    —McEwan’s friend/early reader (08:28)

  • Memorable Anecdote:
    Reading Fuller’s poem “bit hard into my thoughts and feelings,” inspiring the novel (08:07).

6. A Book for a Dystopian Future

• Discussion (08:50–10:35):
  • If limited to one book in a dystopian scenario, McEwan chooses Ulysses by James Joyce for its poetic prose, structure, and innovation.
  • Views Ulysses as a literary “Bible” and credits Joyce with changing the concept of the novel.
  • Quote:

    “The beautiful rhythm of the prose, the strange division of its sections, the wonderful soliloquy of Molly Bloom at the end of it, and the wit and warmth of the novel. I know quite a few fellow writers who treat it almost as a Bible.”
    —Ian McEwan (09:15)

7. Evolution of the Writing Process

• Discussion (10:35–12:36):
  • McEwan describes early struggles with self-doubt and painstaking editing.
  • Over time, writing became more fluid, especially once two concept threads merge—here, the lost poem and the preservation of knowledge.
  • Age and experience lead to greater creative command and faster drafts.
  • Quote:

    “So not everything gets worse as you get older.”
    —Ian McEwan on writing with age (12:29)

8. Advice for Aspiring Writers

• Discussion (12:36–13:27):
  • Champions “the luxury of solitude” as essential for creativity.
  • Recommends setting aside three to five hours per day without screens or internet for personal introspection and writing.
  • Quote:

    “You must have at least three, preferably five hours a day where there is no screen, no outside world pressing in... open up your own mind to your own examination. It’s very, very fruitful.”
    —Ian McEwan (12:56)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the novel’s scope:

  “The future of love, the future of history... a science fiction novel without the science.”
  —Ian McEwan (02:18)

• On critical notes:

  “You know a good note the moment you hear it. It’s a matter of recognition.”
  —Ian McEwan (03:54)

• On the value of pleasure in literature:

  “Pleasure has to be a strong element in this.”
  —Ian McEwan (06:13)

• On the advice not to write poetry:

  “Do not quote from this poem. You are not a poet.”
  —Anonymous friend/early reader (08:28)

• On the role of solitude in creativity:

  “You cannot have solitude if you are online.”
  —Ian McEwan (12:45)

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Segment Timestamps

| Timestamp | Segment | |---------- |-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 01:39 | Introduction of Ian McEwan and the premise of What We Can Know | | 02:09 | Multiple meanings behind the book’s title | | 03:13 | Decision to set the story in a near (vs. far) future | | 04:19 | Approach to research for this novel | | 04:57 | The purpose of art in crisis times | | 06:37 | Inspiration for the lost poem | | 09:06 | Book McEwan would take into a dystopian future | | 10:43 | Reflections on 50 years of writing | | 12:42 | Advice for aspiring writers |

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Summary

This episode offers a rich, intellectual yet deeply accessible insight into Ian McEwan’s latest work and creative philosophy. With wit, humility, and candor, McEwan reflects on the challenges of grasping knowledge, the intertwining of past, present, and future, and the enduring importance of art. His stories about the writing process, the inspiration for central motifs, and practical advice for writers make for a thoughtful and inspiring listen—perfect for novelists, readers, and anyone interested in the deeper questions literature can ask.

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Transcript

[Stephen Colbert]

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[Commercial Narrator]

It's the Late Show Poncho with Stephen Colbert.

[Ian McEwan]

I'm Ian McKeown, I come from London and I'm a British novelist.

[Interviewer/Host]

Ian, thanks for being here. You are one of the most celebrated and critically acclaimed writers of our time. You are the author of 19 novels and two short story collections. And today you are here to talk about your latest novel, what We Can Know. Can we talk about the title? What We Can Know. As the book goes on, you start thinking, can we really know anything? What does the title mean to you?

[Ian McEwan]

It runs on several levels. What we can know about the past, what we can know about the future, and what we can know about each other and how difficult it is sometimes to break through even to the person closest to you. So it's a dialogue with history, with futurology. The future of love, the future of history. In some senses it's, I guess A science fiction novel without the science. I'm interested in all those things that science fiction don't look into, like what's the future of universities, humanities, intellectual life, artistic life, but also love, betrayal, changing circumstances through time, and getting the present and past and future all into some kind of dialogue with each other.

[Interviewer/Host]

How did you choose 21, 1990, four years from now, as the amount of time in the future you wanted to set this story?

[Ian McEwan]

I started with 400 years, and then a very good friend of mine, who's one of my first readers, on his first reading of an early draft, said, I think 400 years is too long. You're writing in the same language, although you've got all kinds of explanations of why language hasn't changed much. It would be so much more alive if it was a future that we could almost reach out and touch. And I used to, as a young writer, not take notes very easily from other readers early on. And I've come round to the view that you know a good note the moment you hear it. It's a matter of recognition. As soon as he said it, I felt relief. Yes, it has to be. A hundred years would do it fine.

[Interviewer/Host]

What was it like to imagine the future that you describe in this book, and what sort of research did you do to imagine this fate?

[Ian McEwan]

Well, I'll answer the second question first. I used to do a lot of research for my novels, and now I've reached the age I'm 77. I feel that my head is so stuffed with stuff that I try to treat it like a garden. And I prefer to go down there, those garden paths into my own mind and my own memories. As researcher, I didn't research a thing for this.

[Interviewer/Host]

Your character Tom, and his pursuit of this lost poem makes me think, what is the importance of art when the world is burning?

[Ian McEwan]

Well, I've passed the point of thinking that climate change fiction can warn people, because it's already happening. We're in it. We don't need to be warned. So the function of art, one element of that is to render pleasure to us, aesthetic pleasure, and another is to open a discussion, and I'm talking particularly of literature here, of trying to understand where we are, what we are, who we are, what it's like to be a man or woman in a city, in all the conditions of modern life, to reflect back on us what we are. And that's really why I thought that having someone writing about us from the future, who half envies us, half despises us for all our mistakes, would Be another way of carrying on that discussion that I think literature is. Is always having with itself and with its readers. What's going on now? Where are we heading? Where have we just been? Is human nature changing? Or are we about to interfere with human nature by bioforming? So, yeah, I'd put it there, but pleasure has to be a strong element in this.

[Interviewer/Host]

The concept of a lost poem that has achieved this myth like quality, so much so that a scholar wants to track it down 100 years later, is for any lover of the written word, so romantic. Was there a real poem that inspired this?

[Ian McEwan]

There absolutely was. It was written, it was published about four years ago. It's by John Fuller, an English poet now in his 80s. And I should just explain that this is called a corona. It's got nothing to do with the pandemic. It is basically Renaissance or rococo form. It consists of 15 sonnets. The last line of each sonnet has to be the first line of the next. The 15th sonnet is the corona, the crown. And it. And this is a real tough one, it has to. It consists of the first line of all the preceding 14 sonnets. And. And it has to make really good sense. And a corona traditionally is spoken or addresses one particular person, a loved one, perhaps. And Fuller's poem was published, and I read it and I was astonished by its beauty, how relaxed it was with all these rules. You hardly notice. I didn't guess for a minute when I read this poem that I was going to write a novel about this poem. But it. It bit hard into my thoughts and feelings. And two years later I was fully engaged with just such a poem that gets lost. Maybe I think a lost poem, like a poem as good as this that got lost, would be a terrible tragedy, as it were, and make us value it all the more. Along the way, I wrote just the odd few lines of this imaginary poem. And I'm not a poet. And when I gave it to one of my close readers, early readers, he loved the novel, he said. But he said, do not quote from this poem. You are not a poet. So I thought, well, that's such a good note. It's an act of recognition, a good note. And it would put the reader in the same position as all of us, including myself. We do not know what's in this poem.

[Interviewer/Host]

I love it. If you knew you were going to be teleported to a dystopian future where access to books is limited, but you know you can bring one book with you, right? What book are you bringing?

[Ian McEwan]

And I'm not allowed a 40 set encyclopedia. I guess I probably would take James Joyce's Ulysses because I'm always dipping into it with such pleasure. The beautiful rhythm of the prose, the strange division of its, its sections, the wonderful soliloquy of Molly Bloom at the end of it, and the wit and warmth of the novel. I know quite a few fellow writers who treat it almost as a Bible. I see that quite a few people I know just keep it on their desk. It's just always there. You don't have to read it end to end. So I think that would be a colossal comfort to me to have that. Joyce, I think, was revolutionary. Rather like Wordsworth. He changed our minds about what the novel could do. He brought us into some understanding of how we might represent the flow of consciousness. And also he was revolutionary too, because he, he could write about children so well, as well as Dickens, as well as Jane Austen, if not better.

[Interviewer/Host]

This is your 19th novel. Has your writing process changed? Does it get easier, harder?

[Ian McEwan]

I was one of those writers who sweated over every sentence. When I started out, I was very unsure of myself. I, I felt I was a slow learner in the art of fiction. And slowly I got, after about 20 years, slowly getting faster and slightly more at ease with myself. I got to the point where I've been in the last maybe 15 or 15 or 20 years. I think I'm in my 50th year of writing, so that just about makes sense. Now I have a much stronger sense once an idea has started to form, or more typically once two ideas have started to merge. Like this poem impressed me. But I was also following closely on the Internet, some organizations that want to send information into the future in case civilizations collapse. So how to make soap, how to make glass, how to make a three crop rotation, what is a germ theory of disease, and so on. And that notion of the future and this poem came together so just to describe one process. And as soon as that was there, it began to flow and then it moved from one gear into another, into another, so that I, I think after about three months of doing this, I knew I had my material and I felt fully in command of it in a way that my 25 year old self would have been very envious of. So not every, not everything gets worse as you get older.

[Interviewer/Host]

Well, speaking of those envious 25 year olds, do you have a piece of advice that you give to aspiring writers?

[Ian McEwan]

Yes, it is. You must recapture the privileges that we all had when we were in our 20s. And that is and this is one of the great luxuries of civilization. It is the luxury of solitude. And you cannot have solitude if you are online. So my advice is you must have at least three, preferably five hours a day where there is no screen, no outside world pressing in on you and open up your own mind to your own examination. It's very, very fruitful.

[Stephen Colbert]

Wow.

[Interviewer/Host]

Thank you so much for being here, Ian. It was such a pleasure to chat. What we can know is available everywhere. Books are sold. For Late Show Book Club updates, follow our Instagram colbertlateshow.

[Stephen Colbert]

Thank you for listening to the Late Show Pod show with Stephen Colbert. Just one more thing. If you want to see more of me, come to the Late Show Give.

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