Episode Summary: The Late Show Pod Show with Stephen Colbert Featuring Linguist John McWhorter

Release Date: May 3, 2025
Guest: John McWhorter, Professor of Linguistics at Columbia University, New York Times Columnist, Bestselling Author of Pronoun: The Story of Us in Seven Little Words

Introduction to John McWhorter and His Work

In this engaging episode of The Late Show Pod Show with Stephen Colbert, host Stephen Colbert welcomes back John McWhorter, a renowned linguist and author. McWhorter discusses his latest book, Pronoun: The Story of Us in Seven Little Words, delving into the complexities and evolution of pronouns in the English language.

John McWhorter [02:31]: "It's all those ways of saying yep that the kids are using... I like that. I think that it's a lot of fun listening to all of this warmth."

Modern Linguistics and Contemporary Speech

The conversation kicks off with McWhorter sharing his fascination with the evolving landscape of modern linguistics. He highlights the dynamic nature of language, noting how contemporary expressions among younger generations enrich communication.

John McWhorter [02:30]: "There are all these things. There are all these little ways that you can agree with somebody in a hip way, kind of keeps things going."

McWhorter appreciates the vibrancy and creativity in modern vernacular, contrasting it with the more static language of the past.

Pet Peeves: Language Anomalies and Irregularities

Stephen Colbert introduces his linguistic pet peeves, prompting a discussion on the inconsistencies within English. Topics such as the confusing pairs "flammable" and "inflammable," as well as "unravel" and "ravel," are examined.

Stephen Colbert [03:21]: "I want to ask you. I got a couple of pet peeves about certain words... How flammable and inflammable."

John McWhorter [04:06]: "Languages are messy. You have to learn to love them like you love your children. They're just messy."

McWhorter emphasizes that these irregularities are natural aspects of language evolution and suggests embracing their complexity.

Regional Dialects and Pronoun Usage

The discussion shifts to regional dialects, particularly focusing on Southern American English. Colbert shares his experiences with the use of "y'all," exploring its grammatical nuances and cultural significance.

Stephen Colbert [06:42]: "I'm from the South. I have y'all. I say y'all all the time."

John McWhorter [07:36]: "And y'all is polite. If you're looking at somebody in a 711 and you say, y'all come back."

McWhorter compares "y'all" to the French "vous," highlighting its role in promoting politeness and inclusivity, despite being labeled as slang.

Pronouns in English: Challenges and Proposals

At the heart of the episode is McWhorter's exploration of pronouns, as detailed in his book. He discusses the challenges posed by the introduction of new non-binary pronouns and the historical context of pronoun usage in English.

John McWhorter [05:26]: "We need a new non binary pronoun. And you can't just make it up."

McWhorter critiques the rigidity of existing pronoun rules, particularly the distinction between subject and object forms, and advocates for more flexibility to accommodate linguistic changes.

John McWhorter [09:12]: "Pronouns in English segregate subjects and objects in a way that doesn't align with how other languages operate."

He introduces the concept of modifying the singular "they" with a capital "T" to distinguish it from the plural form, aiming to reduce confusion in written communication.

John McWhorter [08:11]: "Maybe there should be a capital T, because that way you don't get confused trying to figure out what kind of they is meant."

Colbert humorously counters the proposal, noting potential confusion with religious contexts.

Stephen Colbert [08:52]: "But if there's a capital T in they, it'll sound like the sort of capital that you give to... the Holy Trinity."

The "Fakest" Rule in English Pronouns

McWhorter identifies a particular grammatical rule as the "fakest" in English: the prescriptive insistence on using "I" instead of "me" in compound subjects.

John McWhorter [09:12]: "The fakest rule in the book... you're supposed to say, Billy and I went to the store and not Billy and me."

He argues that such rules are arbitrary impositions inspired by Latin grammar rather than intrinsic to the English language, advocating for a more natural and flexible approach to pronoun usage.

John McWhorter [10:03]: "If you knock on someone's door and they say, who's there? And you say, it is I... that's a subject-object issue."

Colbert and McWhorter discuss the social implications of these grammatical constraints, with McWhorter calling for linguistic freedom.

John McWhorter [10:37]: "If we're going to have a rule that already doesn't make sense... I'm for freedom."

Conclusion: Embracing Linguistic Evolution

The episode wraps up with Colbert thanking McWhorter for his insightful discussion on pronouns and the broader implications for language evolution. McWhorter's perspectives encourage listeners to appreciate the fluidity of language and to embrace its inherent imperfections.

Stephen Colbert [10:59]: "John, thanks so much for being here."

John McWhorter [11:01]: "Thank you, Stephen."

Notable Quotes:

• John McWhorter [02:30]: "There are all these little ways that you can agree with somebody in a hip way, kind of keeps things going."

• John McWhorter [04:06]: "Languages are messy. You have to learn to love them like you love your children."

• John McWhorter [05:26]: "We need a new non binary pronoun. And you can't just make it up."

• John McWhorter [08:11]: "Maybe there should be a capital T, because that way you don't get confused trying to figure out what kind of they is meant."

• John McWhorter [09:12]: "The fakest rule in the book... you're supposed to say, Billy and I went to the store and not Billy and me."

Final Notes:

Listeners can explore more of Stephen Colbert's content on The Late Show YouTube channel for additional clips and exclusive interviews. For those interested in John McWhorter’s work, Pronoun: The Story of Us in Seven Little Words offers a deep dive into the intricacies of English pronouns and their impact on modern communication.