Stephen Colbert (3:22)

How would you define nonviolent resistance?

Dr. Maria J. Stephan (3:25)

So nonviolent resistance is a powerful form of collective action. It's where ordinary people coordinate a range of different tactics. Protests, boycotts, strikes, walkouts, mutual aid to build power, to disrupt injustices and to liberate themselves from oppression. So it's a way of fighting back without the threat or use of violence.

Stephen Colbert (3:51)

Okay, what can people do right now? What's a simple tool people can use?

Dr. Maria J. Stephan (3:58)

Well, you know, I've got in my pocket here, Stephen, a whistle. So what people are doing is they are organizing neighborhood groups. They are taking Know youw Rights trainings. They're learning how to intervene. And one of those ways is blowing a whistle to let their neighbors know that ICE is there and that they are there to stand with them and to defend them.

Stephen Colbert (4:20)

Can I give a little?

Dr. Maria J. Stephan (4:20)

Yeah, check it out. Take a try.

Stephen Colbert (4:23)

There you go. It's not only a good warning, but it's oddly cheerful. I feel like Thomas the Tank Engine has joined the resistance. Let's talk about things like a general strike. It's a very European thing to have a general strike. Has America ever engaged in a general strike? Like, that's enough. We're not showing up to work tomorrow.

Dr. Maria J. Stephan (4:49)

So we've never had a general strike. But I can say what's happening this Friday on January 23rd, there is an ICE out of Minnesota Day of Action. It's a shutdown day where people will be staying home from work, they won't be going to school. They'll be refusing to participate in economic activities. So a power. And they're calling on Americans across the country to show solidarity.

Stephen Colbert (5:18)

One of the problems with Minnesota right now is you have people like Kristi Noem or the people who are heading up ICE saying that it's not non violent resistance. They're saying someone like Renee Goode was actually a threat to those people or that filming an ICE agent. Or they're saying that filming and Ice Age documenting, which is perfectly Legal is a form of threat and therefore they're justified to use what they say, violence in return to the threat of violence from these people. What do you do when what your non violent action is perceived of what or called violence by the people who can use violence against you?

Tommy John / Mint Mobile Advertiser (5:51)

Yeah.

Dr. Maria J. Stephan (5:52)

Declaring peaceful protesters violent or domestic terrorists or outside agitators is what autocrats all around the world do. That is their playbook is to make people fearful and to try to undermine the legitimacy of protesters. That's their game. And so what are we seeing in Minneapolis right now? What have we seen in our history in this country? Think about the civil rights movement. Profound state violence used against protesters. They prepared, they trained, they role played, they organized, all to make that political violence backfire. Think of Selma, the peaceful march. So when peaceful, disciplined protesters confronted the, you know, the dogs, the hoses, the response, it revealed the cruelty when the disciplined protesters were faced with this form of violence. And so that's how disciplined nonviolent resistance can make state violence, repression, backfire. And they know this. They know that nonviolent resistance is something they can't handle. So they'll do anything in their power to undermine the legitimacy of these protesters, to call them domestic terrorists, to foment violence so that they can justify crackdowns. But people are not taking the bait. They are prepared, they're disciplined, they're trained. It's sticking in my head. A quote from Rebecca Goode, the widow of Renee Goode, who said, they show up with guns, we show up with whistles.

Stephen Colbert (7:24)

We have to take a quick break. We're right back with more. Maria Stephan, everybody. We're back with Dr. Maria J. Stephan. You advise the Catholic Institute for Nonviolence. I do my best to be a Catholic. What role you know, and what role do faith communities play in all of this? I know that many Catholic bishops and cardinals have come out and said that this is totally unacceptable. You know, one, I believe it was, an Episcopal bishop, has said that their clergy may have to actually prepare themselves to a new age of martyrdom to protect people. What role do faith communities play in all of this? Or can they?

Dr. Maria J. Stephan (8:11)

Yeah, faith communities play a powerful role and they're showing up in powerful ways across this country. As you say, they can speak truth to power. They can use their pulpits, their positions, their moral authority to speak out against the abuses of power that are happening. They can remind us that the greatest commandment is love. They can remind us they can speak out against the false idolatry of Christian nationalism using these different platforms.

Stephen Colbert (8:43)

You know, Many, many, many of the people who are in support of this sort of thing, even some of the people who are in ice actually cite their Christian faith as a justification for this. What would you say to those people? Is there anything from your experience of faith that you would. We would say to them, I mean.

Dr. Maria J. Stephan (9:05)

I think I would remind them of our shared humanity in this moment. I would remind them of the greatest commandment to love thy neighbor. I would remind them of Matthew 25, what you do unto the least of the you do unto me. And I would remind them that they have agency in this moment, and they can walk away.

Stephen Colbert (9:31)

They're not in the army. They're allowed to quit. I love. I love some of the things that I've seen this past year, like all the frog costumes in Portland, the dinosaur costumes happen in Chicago too. You know, when the going gets tough. Should the tough get silly?

Dr. Maria J. Stephan (9:52)

They absolutely should. Joy is resistance, Stephen. And. And there is such. There is such a powerful role for humor in this moment. Humor breaks through the fear. It inspires courage.

Stephen Colbert (10:11)

Should you really make jokes about the news, though? Not everything's a joke, Maria.

Dr. Maria J. Stephan (10:18)

But so the frog costumes, like, it has lit people on fire. Young people are inspired. It's a way for people to show up, to get invol.

Stephen Colbert (10:27)

Also, people don't look like a threat when they're in inflatable frog costume.

Dr. Maria J. Stephan (10:32)

Yeah.

Stephen Colbert (10:32)

It really drives home the whole thing. Like, they've got guns. I've got a little fan on my butt.

Dr. Maria J. Stephan (10:37)

Exactly.

IXL Advertiser (10:38)

Yeah.

Stephen Colbert (10:39)

Before we go, this is really one of the things that's most interesting to me is that people think of nonviolence as nonviolence resistance. They think of the marches of Gandhi, or they think of the marches of Dr. King and other people around the world. But my understanding is that nonviolence is that it's really more of a worldview. And how would you describe that to someone who wants to know what it means to live a life of nonviolence?

IXL Advertiser (11:05)

Sure.

Dr. Maria J. Stephan (11:06)

I mean, I think it's a different way of being with each other. It is love in action. It's about being human in the face of inhumanity. It's about resisting injustices in courageous, powerful ways, but without harming people. And it's about building something new. Dr. King referred to it as the beloved community. So how we can treat one another and anchor out how we relate to one another in love and in respect for human dignity and building a kind of society where we can all feel flourish.

Stephen Colbert (11:47)

Maria, thank you so much for being here.

Dr. Maria J. Stephan (11:49)

Thank you.

Stephen Colbert (11:51)

You can learn how to get involved by going to nonviolence.info or by scanning the QR code right there. Dr. Maria J. Stephan, everybody. Thank you for listening to the Late Show Pod show with Stephen Colbert. Just one more thing. If you want to see more of me, come to The Late Show YouTube channel for more clips and exclusives.

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Stephen Colbert (13:02)

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Dr. Maria J. Stephan (13:15)

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