Pete Townshend (Extended)

Summary

The Late Show Pod Show with Stephen Colbert

Guest: Pete Townshend (Extended)

Episode Date: November 30, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this revealing and often humorous interview, Stephen Colbert sits down with Pete Townshend, legendary guitarist and songwriter of The Who, to discuss his experiences with the band, the evolution of his iconic rock operas (“Tommy,” “Quadrophenia”), the unique challenges facing young men today, personal stories from his childhood, and his continued creative output at 80. Townshend speaks candidly about his musical legacy, the dynamics within The Who, and how his work still resonates with both him and new generations.

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1. The Who's "Farewell" Tours and Band Dynamics

Timestamp: 04:44 – 06:40

• Colbert opens by joking about The Who’s many "farewell" tours, noting the history of previous tours in 1982 and 1989.
  • Quote: “Farewell tours tend to be farewell. But I attended one of your earlier farewell tours, I believe in '85, and that was your second farewell.” (04:52)
• Townshend clarifies:
  • In 1982, it was his own farewell (“I left The Who”) rather than the band’s.
  • He returned in 1989 for the 25th anniversary tour, joking about “pleading to come back” because he was broke.
  • This current farewell is “genuine,” but mockingly compares it to Elton John’s lengthy tour:
    • “He did 330. Yes. We’ve done 22. All right, so we just have another 308 to do.” (05:44)
• On touring: Townshend admits he doesn't usually enjoy touring, but loved this last one because he focused on making Roger Daltrey happy and appreciated their new sense of camaraderie:
  • “I got him laughing and got him smiling and we were hugging each other and telling each other we loved each other. And that’s not something that has happened up until now.” (06:31)

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2. The Who's Early Days & New York Memories

Timestamp: 06:44 – 08:44

• The Who’s first US gig was near the studio, in 1967—Townshend was only 21.
• Remembers the cultural whirlwind of 1960s New York, comparing hippies in Central Park to their own mix of Irish, Jewish, and Islamic backgrounds.
  • “The excitement of New York, discovering this place that was just such a great city… New York has given me everything.” (08:28)
• The Who performed 4–5 shows daily, and Townshend smashed a guitar at every show, repairing and reusing them (“I used this special glue called cascamite. It’s a powdered glue. And I managed to string them back together.”) (08:13)

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3. Reimagining "Quadrophenia" as Rock Ballet

Timestamp: 08:44 – 09:25

• "Quadrophenia" (1973) is now staged as a rock ballet, which excites Townshend:
  • “We’re bringing this Quadrophenia Ballet to New York and we’re sold out. It’s so great.” (08:39)
• Townshend is not in the ballet, but relishes seeing the story revisited in new forms (film, ballet) over decades.

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4. The Perennial Story of Quadrophenia & Empathy for Young Men

Timestamp: 09:14 – 13:25

• Townshend compares the narrative to Romeo and Juliet—“a perennial story” of longing and not fitting in.
  • “It’s just a story about a young guy who falls in love with a girl... he feels disconnected, he feels that he doesn’t belong.” (09:14)
  • “Love Rain On Me” (from Quadrophenia) is cited as one of his best songs, born from the character’s suffering and search for meaning.
• Pete Townshend reflects on his emotional connection:
  • “Quadrophenia is about young men… I do weep for young men still because we are still struggling.” (10:16)
• Colbert brings up male loneliness and asks what advice Townshend would give:
  • “…Speak up. Listen and speak up. Try to be heard.” (10:38)
• He critiques how aggression, competition, and “sport” mold young men in the UK and US, leading to struggles expressing emotion.
  • Notable note: The Who’s audience early on was mostly young men needing a voice:
    • “We can’t explain. We don’t have the language. So I set myself up as a spokesman for that crowd.” (11:34)
• Observes a cultural shift:
  • “In pop music, all of the great voices are female… The melodies are better… But, you know, when you look at what Taylor Swift is doing, she’s talking about her conquests… She’s got a great guy now. I think he looks like a good guy.” (12:30)
  • A contemporary nod to Travis Kelce.

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5. The Origins of Rock Opera: "Tommy" and Artistic Influences

Timestamp: 13:25 – 15:40

• “Tommy” was inspired by the encouragement of Kit Lambert (Who’s gay manager), whose father founded the Royal Ballet.
  • Townshend jokingly tells of writing a fake opera (“Gratis Amatus”) as a joke, which gave Kit the idea to encourage a real one.
• Early attempts included “A Quick One While He’s Away” (performed with the Rolling Stones) and an abandoned opera called Raelle (about Israel and China’s political tension in the ’60s).
• “Tommy” became a deeply personal story about a boy’s spiritual journey.

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6. Personal Revelations: Childhood Trauma and Autobiography

Timestamp: 15:45 – 18:49

• Townshend describes a traumatic childhood:
  • Forced to live with a clinically insane grandmother for two years while his parents were separated.
  • Experienced neglect and indirect abuse (“She didn’t personally sexually abuse me, but some happened without question.” 16:37)
  • Returning home, he found comfort in music and family unity, appreciating his father’s band and jazz records.
• Only realized much later, during the 1993 Broadway run, that “Tommy” was largely autobiographical:
  • “About halfway through one of [the interviews], I realized, oh my God, this is me.” (16:59)
  • On his parents: “They were young kids… after the war, everybody got married and had kids whether they wanted to or not.”
• Contrasts Quadrophenia—not autobiographical, more a broader story of youth alienation.

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7. Art, Spirituality, and The Who’s “Gang” Mentality

Timestamp: 18:49 – 22:09

• Townshend describes the band as an unlikely “gang” that provided protection and creative freedom.
  • “Roger Daltrey, who was the school bully, came in… said ‘You, I hear you play the guitar… want to be in my band?’ And I thought, I’ve got protection.” (19:09)
• He kept his role in the band secret from art school friends until playing a gig where the band's growing popularity became clear.
• The unexpected success of “Can’t Explain” was his creative breakthrough.
• “There was magic happening and I didn’t know what it was.” (21:56)
• Reflects at 80:
  • “This is probably the best time in my life because I sort of have a general idea of what’s happening.” (22:06)

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8. Unreleased Music, AI, & Favorite Songs

Timestamp: 22:27 – 25:21

• Townshend reveals he has 350-450 unreleased pieces of music (“A lot of it is probably terrible”).
  • Considering using AI (like Suno) to reimagine songs that “didn’t quite work.”
  • Colbert offers to help listen through the archive.
• Pete Townshend’s top five songs (23:30):
  1. Love, Reign O’er Me
  2. Behind Blue Eyes
  3. Let My Love Open the Door
  4. Baba O’Riley (“I think that’s now got 1.55 billion streams on Spotify.”)
  5. Won’t Get Fooled Again (“...the one that is most applicable to the modern world, which is that our leaders are never any good… Politicians promise stuff that they sort of know they have their fingers crossed behind them.”)

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9. Standout Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On making amends with Roger Daltrey:
  “I got him laughing and got him smiling and we were hugging each other and telling each other we loved each other. And that’s not something that has happened up until now.” (06:31)
• On youth and masculinity:
  “We can’t explain. We don’t have the language. So I set myself up as a spokesman for that crowd.” (11:34)
• On music’s changing landscape:
  “In pop music, all of the great voices are female… So the melodies are better, the gymnastics and the vocals are better. And that’s a great thing.” (12:15)
• On his age and self-awareness:
  “I’m 80 years old now and I think, you know, this is probably the best time in my life because I sort of have a general idea of what’s happening.” (22:06)
• On political optimism:
  “Politicians promise stuff that they sort of know they have their fingers crossed behind them. They know that they can’t deliver some of the stuff they promise.” (24:22)

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10. Closing Thoughts

Timestamp: 25:21

• Colbert thanks and praises Townshend for his candor and contributions, expressing genuine admiration and noting the full episode can be watched online.

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Episode Highlights with Timestamps

• The Who’s Farewell Tour & Band Reflections: 04:44 – 06:40
• Early US Experiences & Guitar-Smashing: 06:44 – 08:44
• Quadrophenia Rock Ballet & Timeless Storytelling: 08:44 – 13:25
• Spiritual Search & Childhood Trauma: 13:25 – 18:49
• Art School, The Band’s Formation & Mod Culture: 18:49 – 22:09
• Creative Process and Unreleased Songs: 22:27 – 25:21
• Top 5 Pete Townshend Songs & Social Commentary: 23:27 – 25:21

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Summary prepared for listeners seeking substance, context, and the uniquely candid dynamic between Colbert and Townshend.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

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[E]

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[F]

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[B]

It's the Late Show Poncho with Stephen Colbert.

[D]

My goodness.

[C]

Thank you.

[D]

Well, I wish you were all here. Welcome back, everybody. Ladies and gentlemen, monsieur et madame, My next guest is Pete Townsend.

[C]

Thank you.

[D]

Thank you for being here. Pete. You've been over there sitting in with.

[A]

The band all night.

[D]

I couldn't even read the prompter. I didn't hear a word Jonathan Karl said. I've just been waiting to get you over here. Have you Having a good time with.

[C]

Lewis and the band? Oh, wow. Yeah, they're great. They're great. You know, they're so great.

[D]

You guys sound.

[C]

When I arrived, I thought I was going to have to teach them some stuff, and they just. They taught me how to do it.

[D]

Well, you just finished up the who's farewell tour in North America with Roger Daltrey.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

Ended in Palm Springs on October 1st. Now, this is. Farewell tours tend to be farewell. But I attended one of your earlier farewell tours, I believe in 85 or something. And that was your. I think that was your second farewell tour. Cause you also had a Farewell tour in 82, which ended in Montreal.

[C]

Now, let me correct you.

[D]

Yes.

[C]

In 82, I left the who.

[D]

Oh, it was your farewell?

[C]

It was my farewell. In 89, I pleaded to come back to the who because I was broke. And we did a 25th anniversary tour. This time the farewell tour is genuine. We are going to end it after we've done as many shows as Elton John. He did.

[D]

Double Tour.

[C]

He did 330. Yes. We've done 22. All right, so we just have another 308 to do.

[D]

Fantastic.

[C]

And then we'll be gone for good.

[D]

Do you enjoy touring?

[C]

No, but I really enjoyed this last tour. It was great. I decided I was going to try to make Roger happy, which isn't easy because. Not because he's a nasty guy or anything, but he sings and he sings the way he sings and his whole body and life goes into it. And I thought, you know, I must forget about myself and just do this for him. It could be the last thing we ever do together. And it worked. He did have two days off when he got sick, but I loved it because I got him laughing and got him smiling and we were hugging each other and telling each other we loved each other. And that's not something that has happened up until now. So it was a great tour for me.

[D]

Now, your first gig.

[C]

Your.

[D]

Your first gig in the States was back in 1967.

[C]

That's correct.

[D]

It was only a few blocks from here. It was the 58th and third. You were 21 years old. This is basically the look of you guys back there.

[A]

There you go.

[C]

Too much hair.

[D]

Yes. Well, he's got a. Get a haircut. You and Keith Moon look like you're from a Jane Austen novel. And these guys look like they came to visit you in a time machine. You're slightly, slightly different.

[C]

You know what's interesting about 67, it was the heyday of the hippie scene in New York. We came, and in Central park, there were all these hippies running around on acid. Yeah, we were just getting used to the fact that we were home, you know, with our Irish ancestors and our Jewish ancestors and our Islamic ancestors and all of those guys, you know, the mixed races and the mixed place of the excitement of New York, discovering this place that was just such a great city. And New York has been. Yeah, no, it is. And, you know, the hippie thing for us didn't really fit in very well. The Cream, Eric Clapton's band then, at the time, they were on the same bill. We were doing four to five shows a day.

[A]

Four to five shows a day.

[C]

And I was smashing a guitar at every show.

[D]

So was that in the contract that you had to.

[C]

No, no, no, no. I was just making sure I left my mark and I had to glue them together between shows. No, I did. I used this special glue called cascamite. It's a powdered glue. And I managed to string them back together. I got very good at putting guitars. My point. My point was. My point is that New York has given me everything. It has given me everything that I've ever needed, ever wanted. And it's happening now. You know, we're bringing this Quadrophenia Ballet to New York and we're sold out. Yes. You know, it's so great.

[D]

So here's Quadrophenia. Quadrophenia, the who's 1973 rock opera. Now a rock ballet, as you said.

[A]

There you go.

[C]

A rock ballet. Yeah, rock ballet. I'm not in it. I'm not.

[D]

That proves it. That proves their dancing. In case you were doubting us, it was also a film in 1979. Why do you keep reimagining it?

[C]

You know, I don't. Reimagine comes around. It's a bit like, you know, this sounds incredibly pretentious, but then I am pretentious. It's like Romeo and Juliet. It's a perennial story. It's just a story about a young guy who falls in love with a girl. That's it. And in Quadrophenia, you have this kid who can't get the girl. He can't. He's got a couple of friends, but he feels disconnected. He feels that he doesn't belong. He goes to a psychotherapist, he goes to a preacher. He talks to his mom, he talks to his dad. He talks to the ace Face the king Mod, the head of the gang, you know, and his gang, and nothing works for him. And he ends up on a rock by the sea, praying. And that's where the song Love Brain On Me came from. And Love Rain On Me is one of the best things I've ever written. And it's about that. It's about that point where, you know, quadrophene is about young men, really. It's about. And I don't want to do a Jordan Peterson here, but I do weep for young men still because we are still struggling, we young men. Yes. Yeah.

[D]

What do you think?

[C]

You know what I mean?

[D]

I do know what you mean.

[A]

Especially now.

[D]

There's not a talk about the epidemic of male loneliness. If you could get some advice to young men right now, what would you say to make their lives better?

[C]

I would Say, you know, speak up. Listen and speak up. Try to be heard. Because I think one of the things that happens to us as young men, particularly in the States, it's not quite so. So heavy in the uk, but it's sport, you know, I know that you're not a big sport guy. I'm not a big sport guy. That's what they told me. You're not a big sport.

[D]

I play some hacky sack.

[C]

Anyway. Anyway. Yeah, that. You know, in college, in the various grades, you're taught to be a great sportsman. Sure. And sport is about pain, you know, it's about doing well, winning and aggression. Yeah, aggression and all that stuff. And when you get to get out into the world as a normal guy, it's very difficult to get past that kind of philosophy that we're all drummed into. And if we're not into sport, we're probably in a gang and the gang has a leader, and the gang's trying to make a living out of us, getting us to sell drugs on the streets. You know, it's a strange world that kids live in, boys live in. And I'm not saying that girls have it better. I don't know that because I'm not a girl. But I think that the. The thing that the who have always done is speak to a male audience. We have from the very, very beginning. I remember when I wrote the who's first hit, Can't Explain, after the show, a bunch of boys and one girl, five boys and one girl came back and said, this is what we need, we need. And I said, what do you mean? The song's about a guy who can't explain that he's in love with this girl. And I said, that's it. We can't explain. We don't have the language. So I set myself up as a spokesman for that crowd. You know. What's interesting today? Sorry to interrupt. What's interesting today is that in pop music, all of the great voices are female. You know, some of the new great voices, they're female and they have this incredible range, maybe three octaves. Most men singers have two octaves at best, if it's incredible. So the melodies are better, the gymnastics and the vocals are better. And that's a great thing. But, you know, when you look at what Taylor Swift is doing, she's talking about her conquests some of the time. Some of the time she's talking about what she's sick of, you know, with her conquest. She's got a great guy now. I think he looks Like a good guy.

[A]

Large.

[C]

Yeah, he's big. Big guy. I'm not going to knock him. No, he's a good guy, exactly. But the fact is that music is now in a completely different place. And so bringing the ballet, the boys and the ballet. What's so interesting is they're young men, they're in their 20s, they really identify with a story, you know, about a young kid having a hard couple of hard days.

[D]

Well, I mean, it wasn't your first rock opera. Tommy was your first rock opera. And how did. It's another young man. It's a different type of isolation, but another young man in isolation. How did it come about that you actually wrote a rock opera at all?

[C]

You know, the. Whose manager was a gay guy called Kit Lambert, one of our two managers, and his dad was Constant Lambert, who created the Royal Ballet at Covent Garden. And he had a box in Covent Garden. And so if I was hanging out in Soho with nothing to do, I would go in and I would sit in his box, order some champagne and watch some opera, watch some ballet. And one day my friend and I, Ray Tolledy and I decided to write a silly opera for Kit Lambert's birthday. And it was called Gratis Amatus, which is Latin for free love. And we did this silly opera and Kit Lambert was very pleased to get his birthday present. And after Ray had gone home, he said to me, pete, this opera thing is really good, you should do one. So I wrote a thing called the Mini Opera. It was called A Quick One While He's Away. We played it on the Rolling Stones Rock and Roll Circus. The video of that, you can look that up and Google that. It's on YouTube. It's really good. We apparently outplayed the Stones, so that was. So I just carried this idea around for a while. I tried to write an opera about Israel and China. It was called Braille and that was a flop. I didn't manage to get that one away.

[D]

Why Israel and China together?

[C]

I'd just been to Israel and it was just before the five. The Six Day War. Six Day War, yeah. And there was tremendous tension and China was just on the rise with manufacturing. I knew that they were going to big and I knew that they would be a threat. This is in 1967. So I started to write this piece called Raelle. I'm going really off topic here. With Tommy. With Tommy, I wanted to write a story about a young man's spiritual journey. So that was that. Yeah.

[A]

And.

[D]

And what did he think? What did he think? When you came back with that as.

[C]

Your opera, you know, the whole thing about Tommy really is that I didn't realize that it was probably really autobiographical. My childhood was. Most of the time was fabulous. My dad was in a band. He's a sax player and a clarinetist in a dance band. And I grew up with that. But my mum wanted to be a singer. And when I was three and a half, four years old, I had to go to school. And she didn't want to be bothered with me. So she sent me to stay with her mother, who was clinically insane, absolutely insane, I mean, seriously insane. And my grandmother took me. It's all in my autobiography, if you want to buy a copy, and it's not good. I spent two years with this woman. She didn't personally sexually abuse me, but some happened without question. She walked around the neighborhood naked. She was. Anyway, in the end, one of her neighbors called my dad and said, you've got to come and get Pete out of here. And I'd been at school there and was happy at school. But my grandmother never let me go out. She never let me do anything. She used to wake up at 4 o' clock in the morning and take these long walks to go and meet us airmen and have sex with them in cars and stuff. It was really bizarre. So I finally went home. My mom and dad had been separated for a while. They got back together for me. I didn't care whether they loved each other or not. I was just glad that they were together for me. I got back to following my dad's band, back to, you know, listening to Ella Fitzgerald and Frank Sinatra and all that great stuff that he was playing. And I didn't realize until Tommy came to Broadway in 93. And I did 200 interviews about Tommy that year, in 19, 200 interviews about Tommy. And about halfway through one of them, I realized, oh, my God, this is me. This is me. You know, subject to bullying, subject to abuse, subject to parental mismanagement. I wouldn't call it abuse, but they screwed up. You know, they were young. They were young kids. My parents, you know, after the war, everybody got married and had kids whether they wanted to or not. It was just, you know, it was the end of the war. Let's have a family. So Tommy, for me, was autobiographical and of course, ends with the fact that in my. Around the time that the who were getting famous, I decided I was going to go on a spiritual journey. And so, in a sense, all of the stuff was woven together in 1969, 68 when I was writing Tommy, I didn't realize that so much of it was about me. Interestingly enough, Quadrophenia is not in any sense about me. I don't think I had that kind of childhood. I don't think I was never. I was in a gang when I was four and a half, but not when I was 16.

[D]

Your spiritual journey, I assume, or not assume, but I would imagine that the music itself is a spiritual journey as well. Was there a spiritual journey? What was the spiritual journey you needed to take outside of the work that you were doing with your music?

[C]

You know, the who were a gang. We were a school, you know, I was at school, I was 16 years old. I was doing art classes in the summer, doing the. The eighth grade or whatever you call them at 16. I don't know what the grades are, but I was doing the exams, the final exams. And this guy Roger Daughtry, who was the school bully, came in. He'd been thrown out the year before. He came back, he's a year older than me. Came back, came up to me in the corridor, said, you, I hear you play the guitar. And I said, yeah. And he said, do you want to be in my band? And I said yeah. And I thought, I've got protection. And I was still being an art student in the summer, went to his house, we put the band together. John Entwistle, the bass player of the who was already in his band and we started to work. But I kept it secret. I didn't tell my smarty farty art school friends I was in this band until one day there was this college dance thing and we were hired to do the. And all these fabulous looking hippie art school girls were pretending to be Beatles fan and were screaming at me and I thought, this is great, you know. And then it began really, in a sense, the fact that the first. And I thought of myself as a creative. I wanted to be a painter or sculptor or something. And the band would last a couple of weeks, maybe a couple of months. And that's why when I accidentally smashed my first guitar, I didn't care. I thought, well, we'll be gone in two months and I'll just buy another one and get, you know, borrow some money from my dad and buy another one. And we had this hit record, Can't Explain, and I was driving my mum's little yellow van back to Ealing, where we lived in West London, and I heard it on the radio and that was it. I thought, wow, I'm communicating and I have an audience. I have these kids, you know, from Shepherd's Bush. Mainly Irish boys, but a few Jewish kids as well, and one Somali boy. There were some Somali kids that just come in from Somalia, and they were what we call mods. They wore these kind of neat suits like I'm wearing now.

[D]

Mods or robbers?

[C]

Yeah, mods. Mods, yeah. And they were committed to what I was writing. And then I wrote My Generation, which was just huge. It spoke of the. Thank you. You know, so I had an audience. And then in a sense, what happened was it's not that I left art behind and not that I became. Suddenly became sort of super spiritual or anything, but there was magic happening and I didn't know what it was. I just didn't know what the magic was. And it's taken me a long time. You know, I'm 80 years old now and I think, you know, this is probably the best time in my life because I sort of have a general idea of what's happening.

[D]

I'm happy for you. I'm looking forward to it myself. Okay, we'll put this whole thing up online. We're over the time of a broadcast. We'll put the whole thing up online and more people will watch online. They're watching on the show.

[C]

So.

[A]

So everything's going to be great.

[D]

But. So that means I get to ask.

[A]

You some more questions.

[D]

Ok. Because I don't get to talk to Pete Townsend every day. Is it true. Is it true that you have unheard.

[A]

Music in the vault ready to go?

[C]

Yeah, I've got about 350, 450 pieces of music now. A lot of it is probably terrible.

[D]

Have you listened to all of it?

[C]

I've managed to wade through about half of it. What's interesting is.

[D]

Do you want me to help you.

[C]

Listen to the rest of it? You could, because I have some free time.

[D]

Come.

[C]

I don't know what to do with it. I don't know what to do with it. I don't know what to do with it because, you know, I. If I'm also quite interested in. I. I'm quite interested in getting some of my old. The songs that didn't quite work because I didn't get them right first time around and put them up onto Suno or something, some AI music machine, and seeing what it can make of it might. Might be some hits.

[A]

You know, there's.

[D]

There's a country music song that's doing.

[A]

Very well right now, all by robots.

[D]

You should get into that game. Um, Pete Townshend, please. Name Your top five Pete Townshend songs.

[C]

I think the top is Love Rain on Me.

[D]

Somebody write these down.

[A]

Love rain on me.

[C]

Yeah. Okay. I think behind Blue Eyes I really love Let my love Open the door. I love Barbara O'Reilly. I think that's now got 1.55 billion streams on Spotify.

[D]

Yeah, that's four bring it home.

[C]

And of course, you know, the one that is most applicable to the modern world, which is that our leaders are never any good. And when people try to tell us who to vote for, we always feel quite right about that. So I wrote this song called Won't Get Fought Again. And it was, you know, as Bob Dylan said, don't follow parking meters, don't follow leaders, you know, follow parking meters. It's a kind of a comment on the fact that the people that we put in power always seem to end up breaking their promises. And that's not directed at anybody now today, but just everybody that's ever been. Politicians promise stuff that they sort of know they have their fingers crossed behind them. They know that they can't deliver some of the stuff that they promise. And I was being bullied in 72 by a bunch of hippies who said, you know, Pete, the revolution is coming and you've got to get behind it. So I wrote won't get fought again for a project called Lifehouse, which was, no, I won't. I won't write. You know, I won't write. Be part of your revolution. I think the revolution, if it comes, won't need me to write for it.

[D]

Pete, thank you so much for being here. Such a pleasure. Thank you for listening to the late Show POD show with Stephen Colbert. Just one more thing. If you want to see more of me, come to The Late Show YouTube channel for more clips and exclusives.

[E]

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