Rachel Maddow | Breaking Snooze

Summary

The Late Show Pod Show with Stephen Colbert

Episode: Rachel Maddow | Breaking Snooze

Date: December 3, 2025
Host: Stephen Colbert
Guest: Rachel Maddow

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Overview

This episode of The Late Show Pod Show features a candid, sharp, and often hilarious conversation between Stephen Colbert and renowned journalist Rachel Maddow. The discussion covers vital political events of late 2025, including the Trump administration’s controversial military actions, tension with allies, election shakeups, the recent rebranding of MSNBC, and insights from Maddow’s new podcast, Burn Order. The tone is typically Colbert: satirical, irreverent, and incisive, while Maddow provides clarity and context with her trademark mix of humor and deep historical knowledge.

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Key Discussion Points

1. Trump's Approval & Cost of Living (04:00–06:55)

• Stephen Colbert opens with Trump’s plummeting approval ratings—down to 36%, according to Gallup—and lampoons his attempts to shift blame for the nation’s woes.
• Jokes abound about Trump’s new campaign slogans ("more popular than syphilis") and policy proposals, including dubious claims about solving the affordability crisis by ending income tax.
• Trump’s Cabinet (with segments voiced by Pete Hegseth) claims "affordability is a con job by the Democrats" ([06:21]).

2. Cabinet Mayhem & Controversial Military Actions (07:41–13:00)

• Colbert recaps a televised Cabinet meeting where Trump and Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth face scrutiny over alleged war crimes: a US Navy strike on a drug smuggling boat, followed by a lethal secondary strike on survivors.
• The administration’s deflective tactics are skewered, with multiple officials (including a fictional "Admiral Mitch Bradley") refusing to claim responsibility. Senator Mark Kelly vocally criticizes Hegseth’s judgment and bravado ([12:18]).
• Colbert underscores the gravity: "one of our key intelligence allies has now pulled out of the Five Eyes alliance for the first time since WWII" ([22:01]).

3. GOP in Crisis & Special Election Turmoil (13:34–15:05)

• A brief but pointed segment covers the chaos in the House GOP as Republican congressmen flee their seats, making the upcoming Tennessee special election a tight and symbolic battle.

4. Rachel Maddow Interview—Bar Chat, Branding, and ‘MsNow’ (17:12–18:42)

• Maddow explains MSNBC’s rebrand to "MsNow," wryly noting that all her old swag is now “vintage.”
• She demonstrates how to make her signature Manhattan, bantering with Colbert about cocktail technique and liberal values:

  "Because I'm a liberal, and so I want everything to be equal." (Rachel Maddow, [20:21])

5. Economic Reality vs. Political Gaslighting (18:42–20:13)

• Colbert and Maddow dissect Trump’s claim that affordability is a “Democratic con.” Maddow offers an at-home fact check:

  "When you go to the grocery store... you can just say, Donald Trump says I can afford this, and just see if it works." (Rachel Maddow, [19:04])

• The conversation highlights the recurring political trap of denying lived economic experience.

6. U.S. Allies, War Crimes, and Fallout (21:41–22:53; 24:04–25:50)

• Maddow explains the unprecedented fracturing of intelligence cooperation within the “Five Eyes” alliance, citing allies' fears of being complicit in war crimes.
• Discussion of the US military's obligation to refuse illegal orders, met by Trump’s threats of capital punishment for “seditious” military members ([24:57]).

7. Pardons & Hypocrisy: The Honduran President Case (25:50–28:42)

• Maddow and Colbert examine the hypocrisy of Trump’s narrative around the war on drugs, as he pardons convicted drug trafficker and ex-Honduran President Juan Hernandez.
• Maddow exposes the farcical logic:

  "If there is a drug trafficking rationale for a war, which is dubious... to have just pardoned the most prolific convicted drug smuggler in US history and set him free makes absolutely no sense." (Rachel Maddow, [27:08])

• The conversation points to possible corrupt motives, with Maddow referencing lobbyist ties.

8. US Foreign Policy & The Kremlin Connection (29:05–32:20)

• Colbert and Maddow delve into revelations that Trump’s "peace plan" for Russia/Ukraine was ghostwritten in the Kremlin, with real estate buddy Steve Witkoff serving as unofficial go-between:

  "We apparently have been captured by the Kremlin and work for Vladimir Putin." —Rachel Maddow ([31:26])

• Maddow describes US intelligence allies cutting off Ukraine intel, fearing leaks to Russia, and frames the Trump-Putin dynamic as ongoing, public embarrassment for the US.

9. Burn Order: Internment, Injustice & Lessons from History (32:20–35:19)

• Maddow introduces her new podcast, Burn Order, which unearths the cover-up of Japanese American internment during WWII.
• She details heroism of Japanese Americans who fought for reparations and government admission of wrongdoing.

  "They ordered all the evidence incinerated. And it was these intrepid Japanese Americans... Who uncovered what really happened, exposed it all, made the US Government apologize..." (Rachel Maddow, [34:05])

• The story is contrasted against current events as a lesson in confronting and correcting national wrongs, however belatedly.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Trump’s economic spin:
  “Affordability is a con job by the Democrats.”
  — Pete Hegseth, channeling the administration ([06:21])
• Maddow’s quick ‘fact check’ advice:
  “When you go to the grocery store... you can just say, Donald Trump says I can afford this, and just see if it works.”
  — Rachel Maddow ([19:04])
• On illegal orders in the military:
  “It puts everybody involved in those strikes and in a disastrous position where they may be charged with war crimes or with murder for doing something that Donald Trump and Pete Hegseth told them to do. And that's not fair to our members in the military.”
  — Rachel Maddow ([25:50])
• On allies abandoning the US:
  “They [the UK] came out and said... we are going to stop sharing intelligence with you in the Caribbean. Because what you are doing... is putting our personnel on the hook for maybe being charged with murder or war crimes.”
  — Rachel Maddow ([22:01])
• On the Kremlin’s role in US foreign policy:
  “What we've ended up with is the White House peace plan for Russia and Ukraine which appears quite literally to have been written in the Kremlin and then given to Steve Witkoff, who then advised the Kremlin on how best to sell it to Trump.”
  — Rachel Maddow ([30:09])
• The lesson of history:
  “If you stick with it, ultimately history will reward the people who are righteous in these moments, and they will chase the bad guys to the ends of their days.”
  — Rachel Maddow ([35:15])

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• Monologue & Trump’s Approval: [04:00–06:55]
• Cabinet & Military Scandal: [07:41–13:00]
• GOP Election Troubles: [13:34–15:05]
• Rachel Maddow Interview start: [17:12]
• MSNBC Rebrand: [18:05]
• Economic ‘Hoax’ Discussion: [18:42–20:13]
• War Crimes Fallout & Five Eyes: [21:41–22:53], [24:04–25:50]
• Trump Pardons ex-Honduran President: [25:50–28:42]
• Witkoff, Trump, and Russia: [29:05–32:20]
• ‘Burn Order’ & Internment History: [32:20–35:19]

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Final Thoughts

The episode offers a darkly comedic but deeply sobering commentary on the unprecedented chaos of US politics in 2025: from cost-of-living denial and war crime allegations to fractured alliances and Kremlin-authored policy. Rachel Maddow is a perfect guest—mixing cocktails and context with equal dexterity—offering listeners historical perspective and a call to future vigilance.

If you’ve missed the show, this summary will keep you laughing—and shuddering—right along with Colbert and Maddow as they tackle America’s wildest news cycle yet.

Transcript

[Stephen Colbert]

Hey, everybody. Stephen Colbert here about to read the copy for our sponsor. This is from our friends at Wonderful Pistachios. And I was the wonderful pistachio spokesman for years. Yeah, I have a real close association with nut meat. Okay. You know what they say when they reach for a snack? Don't hold back. And that's exactly the approach with Wonderful Pistachios. The don't hold back snack. These little wonders are so tasty, it feels like getting away with something. But surprise. Each serving has 6 grams of protein and 0 grams of regret. That's right. No guilt. Just glory, glory in our nuts. Whether it's a satisfying crack of in shell pistachios, and that's capitalized in shell, or the smooth, instant gratification of no shells. No judgment. That's just it. Just eat. No judgment. I take issue with one thing. It's instant gratification. It's super tasty smooth.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a comedic sidekick or producer)]

It's a hard nut smooth.

[Stephen Colbert]

Exactly. I mean, even out of the shell, it's still a nut.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a comedic sidekick or producer)]

We can't disparage the nuts.

[Rachel Maddow]

You.

[Stephen Colbert]

I'm not disparaging the nut. I'm describing the nut.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a comedic sidekick or producer)]

Don't disparage any flavors.

[Stephen Colbert]

I'm not. I am celebrating the pistachio right now. I'm on board. I love pistachios.

[Rachel Maddow]

I love.

[Stephen Colbert]

I love crushed pistachio. Like a pistachio crusted trout. Oh, unbelievable. Instead of a trout amandine, a trout pistachio. Fantastic. Enough butter? Who cares?

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a comedic sidekick or producer)]

Very good.

[Stephen Colbert]

And I love pistachio ice cream.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a comedic sidekick or producer)]

Have you had the sea salt and vinegar? Wonderful pistachio. It's delicious. I get them.

[Stephen Colbert]

I didn't even know I get them.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a comedic sidekick or producer)]

Before the softball games.

[Stephen Colbert]

But that's. You see, it's been a while since I've been the spokesman for wonderful pistachios. I didn't realize we'd achieved new pistachio technology.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a comedic sidekick or producer)]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Announcer/Ad voice]

Wow.

[Stephen Colbert]

Wonderful pistachios has every snack style covered. Right now. There's an obsession with jalapeno lime. There is an obsession session. It's almost a disorder. It's spicy, it's zesty. It's basically a flavor roller coaster in a nut. Snacking on the go. Grab a bag of no shells. Feeling contemplative and want to work for it a little. So earning it, they're saying if you want to earn your nut, crack open those in shell beauties. Either way, it's snacking like a champ. So the next time hunger strikes, don't hold back. Unless it's a hunger strike. And then it's important that you do because whatever you're doing that for, I'm sure it's a worthwhile cause. Snack like you mean it with wonderful pistachios. Visit wonderfulpistachios.com to learn more.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a comedic sidekick or producer)]

That was a wonderful.

[Stephen Colbert]

I wonder what more there is to learn. We just told them so much. We just told them so much about pistachios. But evidently there's a whole other world. There's an unexplored vista.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a comedic sidekick or producer)]

They got a bunch of flavors. They got dill pickle, jalapeno lime, as we learned, smoky barbecue. There's a lot of different flavors.

[Stephen Colbert]

Wow. And I would not disparage any of them.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a comedic sidekick or producer)]

No, no, no.

[Stephen Colbert]

Bring it on.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a comedic sidekick or producer)]

Nothing bad to say.

[Stephen Colbert]

Nut me, nut, nut me with nut meat.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a comedic sidekick or producer)]

We're nut.

[Stephen Colbert]

No, we got nothing but nut. Nutty, nutty, nutty, nutty. Talk about, talk about, talk about, talk about, talk about nutty.

[Rachel Maddow]

Good.

[Stephen Colbert]

Hey, Ryan Reynolds here wishing you a very happy half off holiday because right now Mint Mobile is offering you the.

[Rachel Maddow]

Gift of 50% off unlimited. To be clear, that's half price, not half the service. Mint is still premium unlimited wireless for a great price. So that means a half day.

[Stephen Colbert]

Yeah.

[Rachel Maddow]

Give it a [e-mail] swimming upfront payment.

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Of $45 for three month plan equivalent to $15 per month required new customer offer for first three months only. Speed slow hacker 35 gigabytes of networks busy taxes and fees extra. CMN.

[Stephen Colbert]

Welcome everybody. Welcome one and all to the Late Show. I am your host, Stephen Colbert, ladies and gentlemen. Well, holidays are upon us. It is December, December 2nd. The year is almost over and 2025 has. It's been a rough one. Obviously there's no one to blame for.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a comedic sidekick or producer)]

That.

[Stephen Colbert]

Other than Donald Trump and a lot of people are. In the new Gallup poll, his approval rating is down to 36% with 60% disapproval. Which is why Trump has started to wear a new hat more popular than syphilis by that much. Just by penicillin won't help with him. So Trump is underwater in every category according to a new YouGov. No YouGov poll. He's very unpopular overall as president, unpopular on the economy, on health care, on the Epstein investigation, on education and on the environment. Donald Trump. I just found out Donald Trump is also the most hated Zootopia character, the lowest rated mid sized sedan and the least popular Oreo flavor double stuffed cankle. Now the thing I said unpopular. Now the thing hurting Trump the most is cost of living for the average American he has been trying everything he can think of, which is not much. And to appease voters, he started reminding them that his big beautiful bill takes effect on January 1st. But that's actually gonna cause a problem because IRS agents will be required to watch OnlyFans videos to determine if they fit the bill's no tax on tips criteria. They're going to have to watch every OnlyFans video. They're going to need to bring in some part time help. Billy. Billy, what are you doing in there? Don't come in, Mom. I'm running an audit. Now, today. Today, Trump held one of his weird televised cabinet meetings. And somewhere in that three hours, he addressed the affordability crisis head on.

[Pete Hegseth]

The word affordability is a con job by the Democrats.

[Stephen Colbert]

It's one of the many con job words made up by the Democrats like democracy, dementia and D. Epstein files. All made. I feel like I'm listening a little bit to starboard here. Now, one of the reasons you're paying exactly as much as you want for everything is Trump's tariffs. And it turns out you like those too.

[Pete Hegseth]

We're going to be giving back refunds out of the tariffs because we've taken in literally trillions of dollars. And I believe that at some point in the not too distant future you won't even have income tax to pay because the money we're taking in is so great, it's so enormous that you're not going to have income tax to pay whether you get rid of it or just keep it around for fun.

[Stephen Colbert]

I don't know why people suspect that he's never paid taxes. He knows, like we all do, that taxes are fun. That's why the longest line at Disneyland is to get on Accountants of the Caribbean. Then the President of the United States bragged about slowing down the price of Ozempic.

[Pete Hegseth]

We're paying as an example for the. Let's call it the fat drug. The fat drug. F A T for fat people.

[Stephen Colbert]

Fat people. It's for fat people. F A T. Fat people. People. P E, E P, P Epil. Cognitive. Cognitive, which is spelled M R I. Cognitive. I think that's how you spell it. Now the later again, I'm listening slightly. I'm right over here. Back in the later in the meeting we heard from Marco Rubio. Now, if you watch this footage very closely, eagle eyed viewers might notice that Trump is dozing off. This war is going on and the President is trying to end it. Not because, listen, we got a million things to focus on in the world as a country, but he's the only leader in the world that can help end it. Okay, let's be fair. Maybe he's so old that he fell asleep in an afternoon meeting. Or maybe he just closed his eyes to better concentrate on filling his adult diaper.

[Announcer/Ad voice]

Then.

[Stephen Colbert]

Then he fell asleep. Toasty. The administration is also scrambling to defend the actions of Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth, seen here finding out they don't serve booze at the American Girl Doll Cafe. Hegseth he's in deep water over what he ordered to be done in deep water, specifically an attack on an alleged drug smuggling boat in which the Navy launched a secondary strike on the defenseless survivors, which may or may definitely be a war crime. The White House is insisting that Hegseth's orders were totally legal, but also that it wasn't actually Hegseth they say the strikes were conducted by special operations commander and four star cage free egg Admiral Mitch Bradley. Hegseth has made it clear that he is 100% behind Admiral Bradley, who was the one who actually did the bad thing, which was actually a good thing that Hegseth didn't even do. Yesterday. He tweeted Admiral Mitch Bradley is an American hero, a true professional and has my 100% support. I stand by him and the combat decision. I hope that his flight to the Hague is on time and his chair at the tribunal is comfy. At today's Cabinet meeting, Hegseth explained what happened the day of the strike and he took full responsibility for finding out what somebody else who is not him did.

[Mark Kelly]

I watch that first strike live. As you can imagine at the Department of War, we got a lot of things to do so I didn't stick around for the hour and two hours. So I moved on to my next meeting a couple of hours later. Later I learned that that commander had made the which he had the complete authority to do. And by the way, Admiral Bradley made the correct decision to ultimately sink the boat and eliminate the threat. As President Trump always has our back. We always have the back of our commanders.

[Stephen Colbert]

We always have their backs because that's where the good stabbing meat is. But while get a kidney maybe, but. But while Hegseth did not make the decision for the perfectly fine possible murder, he did double down on his war fightin warrior ethos of war warring war.

[Mark Kelly]

We've only just begun striking narco boats and putting narco terrorists at the bottom of the ocean. Joe Biden tried to approach it with kid gloves and President Trump said no, we're taking the gloves off.

[Stephen Colbert]

President Trump, please don't take the gloves off because the stuff under there is a human rights violation. One person who's not buying this story is Arizona senator and cage free astronaut aide. Thanks for run for President Mark Kelly. A couple weeks ago, Kelly and some other Democratic veterans in Congress put out a video where they reminded service members that they can refuse illegal orders. And we were all like, ha ha. Why are they even saying that? That's not something you have to say. Well, it turns out you have to say that. And Senator Kelly held a press conference to drive home just how dangerous and unqualified Pete Hegseth is.

[Mark Kelly]

He runs around on a stage talking about lethality and warrior ethos and killing people. He runs around on a stage like he's a 12 year old playing army.

[Stephen Colbert]

I don't know about that. Those 12 year olds are probably sober. Most of them. Most of them now. Thank you, Mark. Trump's unpopularity comes at a tough time for the rest of the GOP because it's election night in America. Roll it. Election night in America. Well, just in Tennessee and actually just a little sliver of it. Am I done? Do you guys validate parking? Lately, Republican congressmen have been quitting in droves. And as a result, there is a special election today to represent Tennessee's seventh district. The fight in seventh. Now, this contest pits Trump backed Republican Matt Van Epps against Democratic state rep and junior jumbleclew Afton Bain. And because this district includes portions of Nashville, you can't rule out the d pink cowboy boot a bachelorette threw up in 2024. Trump won the seventh by 22 points. But going into election night, the most recent poll shows a statistical dead heat. Now that's a bad sign for the House GOP majority, which is so razor thin that Representative Tim Burchett said at a rally last night, folks, we are one flu season away from losing the majority.

[Pete Hegseth]

S.

[Stephen Colbert]

Congressman. Our health secretary is RFK junior We are one flu season away from losing the species. This weekend, another House Republican announced he won't be seeking reelection. Texas Representative Troy Nails, seen here saying, tell the Batman my boys will be waiting for him. Nails isn't alone. Five other Republicans from Texas have already announced they won't seek reelection in 2026. They are. That's a five just in Texas. So that's six including nails. They're fleeing the GOP sinking ship, which is smart because Hegseth is about to order a second strike on it. Nels is a Trump true believer who voted to overturn the 2020 election and is A member of the Anti Woke caucus. Though we all know who is the leader of the Anti Woke caucus. We got a great show for you tonight.

[Rachel Maddow]

Coming up. Rachel Maddow.

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[Stephen Colbert]

More. Hey, welcome back. We tried. Welcome back everybody. Ladies and gentlemen, my guest tonight is the Emmy winning journalist who hosts the Rachel Maddow. Please welcome back to the Late Show, Rachel Maddow. Look at that. The folks, they love the Rachel Maddow. Good to see you again.

[Rachel Maddow]

Rachel. I'm calling it right here. I feel like we've.

[Stephen Colbert]

Peaked. This is.

[Rachel Maddow]

It. We've.

[Stephen Colbert]

Peaked. We may have peaked. Listen, you know, as I said earlier, I always love to have you.

[Rachel Maddow]

On. Thank.

[Stephen Colbert]

You. Not only because you lay things out like parts on a lawn and put the news back together for us in a way we can understand. Where the machine runs for the brains in a way we understand. But also, I know you like a cocktail and the news has been stressful lately. And so I suggested say, oh, ask Rachel if she wants me to like make her a drink. I hear she likes a.

[Rachel Maddow]

Manhattan.

[Stephen Colbert]

Yeah. And then I found out that you like them so much that you don't think I should make them. You think you should make them. Cause you don't trust somebody else to make a Manhattan for.

[Rachel Maddow]

You. I'm.

[Stephen Colbert]

Controlling. You.

[Rachel Maddow]

Are?

[Stephen Colbert]

Yes. Well, I. I.

[Rachel Maddow]

Am.

[Stephen Colbert]

Whoa. There you go. Hold on. It's perfectly.

[Rachel Maddow]

Fine. It's.

[Stephen Colbert]

Fine. It's all in one.

[Rachel Maddow]

Piece. It's made of.

[Stephen Colbert]

Metal. There you.

[Rachel Maddow]

Go. Very.

[Stephen Colbert]

Good. So you make the Manhattan. I'll ask the.

[Rachel Maddow]

Questions.

[Stephen Colbert]

Okay. All right, here we.

[Rachel Maddow]

Go. I can probably talk while doing this. All.

[Stephen Colbert]

Right. And I'll peel the lemon. Tell me about the new name change over there. It was MSNBC for forever. Now it's MSN Ms. Now. Ms.

[Rachel Maddow]

Now. You have to say, like.

[Stephen Colbert]

Now. Msnow. Is that just for now? Is later gonna be a different name Ms. Then for a minute, I.

[Rachel Maddow]

Thought it was just like a real homage to second wave feminism. We're both Ms. And now. Which is like. But I don't think that's.

[Stephen Colbert]

It. That's very nice. I'll take these away as you.

[Rachel Maddow]

Proceed. The only thing for sure that I know is now all my old MSNBC swag is worth a lot more on ebay, because now it's vintage. Yeah. But other than that, we're just the.

[Stephen Colbert]

Same. Now, let me ask you, while the president is talking today, he said that affordability is a fraud. The word of.

[Rachel Maddow]

God. It's a Democratic con.

[Stephen Colbert]

Job. It's a Democratic con job. Is it all lies that Americans want to afford groceries? Because I want to give the man his.

[Rachel Maddow]

Due. My favorite thing about this is that this is one you can fact check at home. Like, you don't need to count on the professionals to do this. When you go to the grocery store and you get your bill, you know, and they tell you how much it's going to be, you can just say, donald Trump says, I can afford this, and just see if it works. I mean, you may not have the money, but if Trump says it's a hoax, then check it yourself at home. I feel like this is gonna be the vindication of all fact checkers, because now everybody can do it themselves. Also, if it's a hoax, shouldn't he be able to fix.

[Stephen Colbert]

It? He doesn't have to fix it because it doesn't.

[Rachel Maddow]

Exist.

[Stephen Colbert]

Yes. This reminds me of the problem that Biden had, which is his folks would go out there and say the right thing. Like, we understand inflation's a problem, but we're working on it. And then Biden would go out there and go, what are you talking about it's the greatest economy of all time, and he got a lot of for that for a good reason. And isn't Trump walking into the same kind of trap? Yes, because people can just say, I don't like you lying to me about my.

[Rachel Maddow]

Experience. Yeah. The problem when politicians do stuff like that is that everybody else has to live in the real world. So when they're saying things that they believe are from the real world and palpably are not, ultimately it comes back and bites him in the butt. So I think that Trump trying to.

[Stephen Colbert]

Pretend. Do you put ice in there or do you not put ice in.

[Rachel Maddow]

There? We'll put a little bit of ice in there once we've made sure that we have exactly the same.

[Stephen Colbert]

Amount. Oh.

[Rachel Maddow]

Wow. Because I'm a liberal, and so I want everything to be.

[Stephen Colbert]

Equal. Yes, There you go. Exactly.

[Rachel Maddow]

Exactly. There you.

[Stephen Colbert]

Go. I believe they're changing the name of this cocktail to the.

[Pete Hegseth]

Mamdani.

[Rachel Maddow]

Exactly. Little lemon oil.

[Stephen Colbert]

There. There you go. There you.

[Rachel Maddow]

Go. A little twist. Nice job with the.

[Stephen Colbert]

Twists. Well, thanks, man. Yeah, I was a.

[Rachel Maddow]

Bartender.

[Stephen Colbert]

Seriously.

[Rachel Maddow]

Cheers. Cheers. God bless.

[Stephen Colbert]

You. To Ms.

[Rachel Maddow]

Now.

[Stephen Colbert]

Ooh. Oh, good. Oh, my goodness. You have got an excellent fallback position if this whole journalism thing doesn't work.

[Rachel Maddow]

Out. Thank you very.

[Stephen Colbert]

Much. Okay, let's talk about the. Let's talk about the sort of the biggest story of the last couple of days. People on both sides of the aisle, and I imagine in every part of the world, are upset about the revelations first in the Washington Post over the weekend that Hegs then said, kill them all in these boat strikes. And now the administration is trying to backpedal like mad and blame the admiral for this. But the Admiral sent in a second strike based upon the directive of Hegseth. Yes. And that is being called either war crime or murder. Or.

[Rachel Maddow]

Both.

[Stephen Colbert]

Yes. Okay, so what do our allies think of this? Do we know how this is being perceived.

[Rachel Maddow]

Overseas? It's a really interesting part of it, actually, because our best intelligence alliance is called the Five Eyes. It's us, the uk, Australia, New Zealand, and.

[Stephen Colbert]

Canada. And the Five Eyes you had left out Canada. You have gotten such a polite letter from.

[Rachel Maddow]

Them. Oh, I know. My mom's Canadian.

[Stephen Colbert]

Too. Oh.

[Rachel Maddow]

Wow. That'd be the end of birthdays for me. Yes, but so the UK has particular intelligence expertise in the Caribbean. And they came out and said, you know what? We're part of the Five Eyes. We all share everything. We've been sharing everything since World War II. We are going to stop sharing intelligence with you in the Caribbean. Because what you are doing with that intelligence, we believe is putting our personnel on the hook for maybe being charged with murder or war crimes. And so as a country, we can no longer do this with you. And so they've effectively pulled out of the Five Eyes, the most important intelligence alliance in the world, which we have had since World War II. Because we are so obviously breaking the law, they're afraid they'll go to jail for having anything to do with us. That's bad. That's like when your friends say, I can't hang out with you anymore. I'm on.

[Stephen Colbert]

Probation. We have to take a quick break. We'll be right back with more Rachel Maddow.

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[Stephen Colbert]

Details. We're back with Rachel Maddow now. A couple weeks ago, 10 days ago, several members of Congress, all veterans, put out a video saying, just a reminder that the Uniform Code of Military justice says that you not only can disobey a illegal order, but that you should disobey legal order. You must. That's what that's taught in Officer Training Corps. Yes, the president's response to that was to call it seditious behavior. If I'm paraphrasing here, no. Seditious behavior punishable by all caps. Death. Do you know of any precedent in American history where the president called for the execution of sitting members of.

[Rachel Maddow]

Congress? I do not. It's not just bad about the Trump administration, it's also a tragedy for members of the military who are being put in between Iraq and a hard place because members of the military will follow the orders of civilian leadership. It's a really important. It's a really important part of who we are as a country. But when those orders are illegal, they're put in the position of having to parse what to do. And there's no good answer. What the military tells them to do is to not obey illegal orders. But here's the Secretary of Defense and the President effectively saying, well, if I said it, it's not illegal. It just puts, it puts Admiral Bradley at this special in Special Operations. It puts everybody involved in those strikes and in a disastrous position where they may be charged with war crimes or with murder for doing something that Donald Trump and Pete Hegseth told them to do. And that's not fair to our members in the.

[Stephen Colbert]

Military. I agree. I guess the only justification put forth for all of these boats is that they are drugs, generally full of drugs, generally, sometimes specifically labeled for fentanyl, even though Venezuela is not really involved in the fentanyl trade. But at the same time, while this sort of narco terrorism justification has been put out there. Convicted drug trafficker and former Honduran president Juan Hernandez was released from prison today after receiving a pardon from Trump even though he was found guilty by an American jury. Sentenced to something like 45 years in jail. And it was for aiding in the smuggling of 400 tons of cocaine that he said, and I'm paraphrasing here, we will force the powder up the gringo's.

[Rachel Maddow]

Nose.

[Stephen Colbert]

Yes. And Trump pardoned.

[Rachel Maddow]

Him. Pardoned.

[Stephen Colbert]

Him. Is there any, obviously, that flies in the face of fighting narco terrorism? Has the White House put forth any rationale for.

[Rachel Maddow]

This? No, not at all. I mean, why are we going to go to war with Venezuela? Anybody like, has anybody heard an argument.

[Stephen Colbert]

Also? Nothing. They haven't put forth any.

[Rachel Maddow]

Rationale. They haven't put forth. The only rationale they've put forth is that we're stopping drug trafficking of fentanyl, which doesn't come from Venezuela. Okay. And if there is a drug trafficking rationale for a war, which is a pretty dubious idea in the first place, since drug trafficking is a crime, so why make it a war? To have just pardoned the most prolific convicted drug smuggler in the history of the United States and set him free makes absolutely no sense. And so can you think of why it is he just doesn't like.

[Stephen Colbert]

The idea of a president going to jail for.

[Rachel Maddow]

Anything? I know it's weird, but I think that's a.

[Stephen Colbert]

Serious. That's a serious question. Because he doesn't like Jair.

[Rachel Maddow]

Bolsonaro.

[Stephen Colbert]

Yep. You know, that seems related to.

[Rachel Maddow]

Me. I mean, it should be noted that this particular drug. Drug trafficking former Honduran president did hire a Republican lobbying firm a few years ago and paid them a lot of.

[Stephen Colbert]

Money.

[Rachel Maddow]

Okay. In order to get him in this kind of position. And so there seems to be a money trail here in terms of the corruption that's behind a lot of Trump's pardons. But, I mean, the bigger question, I think, for us as Americans is if it's not drug trafficking, if that's not what's driving what's going on with Venezuela, what is it? And if we really are just going to go start a war with Venezuela for the optics, because they like those videos of blowing up the boats and they think it makes them look tough on TikTok, or because we're going to go steal the oil from that country, which is also a war crime. I think that the whole America first idea, the whole idea that Trump was going to get us out of stupid war should maybe be.

[Stephen Colbert]

Revisited. We're going to take another break here. Right back with more Rachel Maddow, everybody. Hey, everybody, don't go. You gotta stay. You gotta stay. We got a lot more. You're not gonna believe how much more talking there.

[Rachel Maddow]

Is. Oh.

[Stephen Colbert]

Wow. We're back with the host of the podcast Burn Order, Rachel Maddow. Speaking of wars, Steve Witkoff and Jared Kushner are presently in Russia for peace talks for the Ukraine. Russia peace talks, which I don't think Ukraine was invited.

[Rachel Maddow]

To.

[Stephen Colbert]

Correct. And recently a leaked phone call made by Witkoff really sounds like he's chummy with the Kremlin. Am I accurate in characterizing it as Witkoff is advising the Kremlin on how to handle Trump? Yes. Okay. So some would say that's treason. The White House calls it strategy. What's.

[Rachel Maddow]

What? First of all, who's Steve Witkoff? He's the President's golfing friend.

[Stephen Colbert]

Yeah. He's a real estate guy. He's a real estate guy. Florida real estate.

[Rachel Maddow]

Guy. Yeah. And they've decided that the way that we're going to solve all the intractable problems of the world is by letting him hang out at the Kremlin a lot. And so this is, I mean.

[Stephen Colbert]

Maybe probably nice in.

[Rachel Maddow]

There. I mean, they probably keep it at just the right temperature, just the right amount of gold. But it's like his sixth trip or something. And every time he goes to the Kremlin. He has, like these three hour, four hour meetings with Vladimir Putin, who is a KGB officer who's really good at, like, flipping people. But Steve Witkoff plays golf, so I bet he knows his way around a negotiating table with the KGB guy. In any case, what we've ended up with is the White House plan, peace plan for Russia and Ukraine, which was appears quite literally to have been written in the Kremlin and then given to Steve Witkoff, who then advised the Kremlin on how best to sell it to Trump. I mean, it really just feels like the whole Putin and Trump thing, that was so weird for all those years, which a lot of us reported on a lot at the time, got a lot of hassle for it. I'm just saying, it kind of seems like that's now paid off with the Kremlin actually running US Foreign policy through the President's doofus Gulf friend. And it's hilarious, except for the fact that we're now years into this deadly war in Ukraine, where they used to think we were their ally and we were helping them stand up against this tyranny. And now we apparently have been captured by the Kremlin and worked for Vladimir.

[Stephen Colbert]

Putin. Some European allies have stopped giving us Ukraine intelligence as well, because they're afraid that we're going to give it to.

[Rachel Maddow]

Russia. It goes right to Russia. I mean, literally, they wrote the plan for what they want Ukraine to do, and the White House put it on its letterhead and said, here it is, you better do it. And you know, Russia is a Podunk country. They're a huge landmass, largest physical country in the world. They've got an economy like the size of Italy. Right. They've got a kleptocratic, sclerotic government run by a guy who's never going to leave until he dies. The idea that we work for him, that we work for them, is so humiliating and is such an abject failure on the part of Trump in terms of his weakness. I don't know what Putin has on him, but he works for Putin and it's an embarrassment to this country.

[Stephen Colbert]

Sorry. Oh, I. I'm very happy. Okay. You have a new.

[Rachel Maddow]

Podcast. I.

[Stephen Colbert]

Do. All right. Burn Order. It's about the Japanese internment in the US in the 1940s. You've said that history is here to help in times of crisis. What is the story of Burn Order, and how does that history help us.

[Rachel Maddow]

Now? So when we went to war with Japan In World War II, there were zero Japanese Americans who worked as spies for Japan. There were zero Japanese Americans who participated in any sabotage or helped Japan in the war against us in any way. There were some people in this country who were spying for Japan, but they were generally white, homegrown American fascists who liked Japan for the same reason they liked Germany and Italy. Like, they're really Japanese. Americans were not implicated in any bad stuff at all. And military intelligence knew it, and the DOJ knew it, and the FBI knew it. And nevertheless, we locked up 120,000Americans. I mean, elderly people, men, women, children. They went and got babies out of orphanages if they thought those babies might have some Japanese blood. They went and got kids out of foster homes because they thought they might have some Japanese lineage. And we had internal domestic prison camps and locked people up for years for no reason. And it turns out that the people who did it, it wasn't inevitable. The people who got this done knew it was wrong when they were doing it. And so they covered it up. They covered up the reason why they were doing it, and they covered up how they got it done. And that story is kind of a thriller because they ordered all the evidence of what they did literally burned. They ordered all the evidence incinerated. And it was these intrepid Japanese Americans, when nobody else was standing up for them, they had to do it themselves. Who uncovered what really happened, exposed it all, made the US Government apologize, overturned all of the court cases that made it possible, and ultimately got reparations for what they did. The bad.

[Stephen Colbert]

Guys is anyone held brought to.

[Rachel Maddow]

Justice. The bad guys spent their entire lives denying they'd had anything to do it, lying about it and pretending like they weren't involved. And their families have since spent the multiple generations since pretending like those people aren't members of their family. So history has remembered them in the appropriate way. But for me, this is really useful because we've had really racist, terrible, awful, pointless policies in the past, and fighting it is worthy. You don't know when you're necessarily gonna win. It may take a long time, but if you stick with it, ultimately history will reward the people who are righteous in these moments, and they will chase the bad guys to the ends of their.

[Stephen Colbert]

Days. I certainly hope you're right. Thank you.

[Rachel Maddow]

Rachel. Thank you.

[Stephen Colbert]

Stephen. Her podcast, Rachel Maddow Presents Burn Order, is available now wherever you get your podcasts. Rachel Maddow, everybody. Thank you for listening to the Late Show Pod show with Stephen Colbert. Just one more thing. If you want to see more of me, come to The Late Show YouTube channel. For more clips and.

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[Stephen Colbert]

Kingstowne. Warden, you know who I.

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[Stephen Colbert]

Renner. I swear in these.

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Walls. Emmy award winner Edie.

[Rachel Maddow]

Falco. You're an ex con who ran this place for years. And now. Now you can't do.

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That. And bafto award winner Lenny.

[Stephen Colbert]

James. You're about to have a plague.

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[Stephen Colbert]

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[Stephen Colbert]

Plus. Dearest Eva, I think about you all the time. Once I find you and your daughter, then I will kill you.

[Rachel Maddow]

Both. Those words and those threats were absolute psychological.

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Terrorism. Surviving 12 years of of.

[Stephen Colbert]

Terror. You be prepared for my arrival. Oh, my.

[Rachel Maddow]

God. He found our house. And he was.

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Coming. My nightmare stalker. The Eva LaRue Story. Now streaming on Paramount Plus.