The Late Show Pod Show with Stephen Colbert

Episode: Late Show Book Club | Daniel Kehlmann

Date: August 19, 2025

Episode Overview

This special installment of the Late Show Book Club features an insightful conversation between producer Ali Jaffe Ramis and acclaimed novelist Daniel Kehlmann about his new historical novel, The Director. Kehlmann delves into the moral ambiguities and everyday realities of life under the Third Reich, exploring the role of art, complicity, and the far-reaching impact of personal choices in times of tyranny. The discussion offers a thoughtful blend of literary craft, historical context, and personal reflection, providing listeners with a nuanced understanding of both the novel and the ethical complexities it addresses.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Introduction to The Director

• [02:48]
  • The Director centers on a famous filmmaker who flees Nazism for Hollywood but returns to Nazi Germany, creating propaganda films for Goebbels—despite not being a Nazi himself.
  • Daniel Kehlmann:

    "It's a story of moral compromise and about everyday life in the Third Reich." [03:02]

2. Fact vs. Fiction in Historical Novels

• [03:32]
  • Kehlmann discusses the delicate balance between historical accuracy and creative invention in his writing.
  • Quote:

    "You have to explore that ... vague realm of possibility of what could have happened, but also what you are pretty much sure would have made sense." [04:12]

3. Personal Family History as Inspiration

• [04:31]
  • Kehlmann shares his father's harrowing experiences as a Jewish teen in Nazi-era Austria, including forged identities for survival and a stint in a concentration camp.
  • Powerful anecdote:

    "They were always threatened ... my father was in a concentration camp towards the end of the war ... I was able to draw on those stories of what everyday life was like." [05:00-06:27]

4. Understanding Moral Complicity

• [06:35]
  • Writing The Director deepened Kehlmann's understanding of complicity within dictatorships, emphasizing its everyday, pervasive nature.
  • Notable reflection:

    "Complicity ... is just everyday life. A dictatorship transforms your everyday life ... you have to adapt ... but ... you should still remember that it's very important that you do the right thing every day." [07:09-08:27]

5. The Intergenerational Impact of Compromise

• [08:30]
  • The narrative explores how the protagonist’s choices irrevocably damage his son, who becomes complicit in Nazi ideology as a product of his environment.
  • Kehlmann’s perspective:

    "No 14-year-old can sustain a healthy soul ... it breaks his son, and it breaks him ... He becomes a perpetrator himself ... You cannot blame him. You have to blame his father ..." [09:22-10:24]

6. Power and Necessity of Art

• [10:32]
  • Kehlmann underscores fiction’s unparalleled ability to foster empathy and promote resistance in oppressive times.
  • Key quotes:

    "Novels ... are schools of empathy ... you are other people in a way while you're reading." [11:07]
    "Art is ... the place where true resistance can live. ... the only thing we have to do is to leave and ... save our lives and run away [when art is no longer free]." [12:10-12:39]

7. Collaborating with a Translator

• [12:44]
  • Kehlmann describes his close, iterative relationship with his translator Ross Benjamin.
  • Quote:

    "When [Ross] has a solution, it's the right solution. ... his English is so much better than mine." [13:54]

8. Recommendations & Advice for Writers

• [14:34]
  • If stuck abroad with only one book, Kehlmann would bring War and Peace by Tolstoy. He also recommends The Lord of the Rings.
  • Advice to writers:

    "Write a lot, don't publish a lot ... most of what you're writing is terrible ... but the important thing is to actually put words on paper." [15:20-16:17]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On Writing Historical Fiction

• "You can't invent something that you feel could not have happened ... you have to explore that ... vague realm of possibility."
  — Daniel Kehlmann [04:12]

On Everyday Complicity

• "A dictatorship transforms your everyday life ... you're not saying something you want to say ... that is already complicity."
  — Daniel Kehlmann [07:21]

On Art as Resistance

• "The freedom of art is ... the ultimate border we have to defend ... if we lose that, ... all we have to do is ... run away."
  — Daniel Kehlmann [12:19]

Advice for Writers

• "Write and accept that most of what you're writing is terrible ... but by writing something that doesn't quite work, you move yourself into the zone where ... everything will start to come into place."
  — Daniel Kehlmann [15:18]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [02:48] Introduction to Daniel Kehlmann & The Director
• [03:32] Fact vs fiction in historical novels
• [04:31] Kehlmann’s father’s WWII experience
• [06:35] Exploring moral complicity in dictatorships
• [08:30] The repercussions on the next generation
• [10:32] The transformative power of novels and art
• [12:44] Working relationship with his translator
• [14:34] Desert island book choice
• [15:11] Writing advice for aspiring authors

Tone and Style

Kehlmann’s responses are thoughtful, nuanced, and invested with personal emotion and philosophical insight. The interviewer maintains a warm, inquisitive approach, allowing the author’s reflections to unfold in depth.

Summary

This episode of the Late Show Book Club delivers a captivating blend of literature, history, and moral inquiry. Daniel Kehlmann’s discussion of The Director offers listeners fresh insight into the everyday realities of life under totalitarianism, the hidden costs of moral compromise, and art's enduring power as an act of resistance and empathy. His advice to writers and readers alike affirms the centrality of storytelling in understanding and resisting the darkness of history. This conversation is a must-listen for lovers of thoughtful fiction and history alike.