Podcast Summary: The Law Entrepreneur — Episode 461

Second Chances and Social Justice: Designing a Law Firm Around Your Values with Amanda DuBois
Date: September 19, 2025
Host: Bridget Norris (with Sam Mollaei and Neil Tyra as series hosts)
Guest: Amanda DuBois

Episode Overview

In this episode, host Bridget Norris sits down with Amanda DuBois, founder of one of Seattle’s longest-standing women-owned law firms. They explore how creating a law practice based on personal and social values can drive both fulfillment and profitability. The conversation spotlights Amanda’s unconventional leadership style, advice for women in law, and a reimagined legal workplace centered around mentorship, empathy, and genuine human connection.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Breaking the Mold: Women, Law, and Leadership

• Amanda’s Journey (01:47): Amanda celebrates her 30-year anniversary as a law firm owner, reflecting on the significance of being a woman leader in a traditionally male-dominated field.
  • “I am celebrating my 30th year anniversary owning a law firm... one of the longest standing women owned law firms in the city of Seattle.” — Amanda DuBois (01:47)
• Leadership Gap: Discussion of the persistent underrepresentation of women in law as firm founders or leaders.
  • “There’s obviously still a huge leadership gap.” — Bridget Norris (02:20)
• Women’s Path to Firm Ownership (02:42): Amanda notes that many women prefer to gain experience before starting their own firms, contrasting with men who often “jump right in.”
  • “Women want to learn how to be a lawyer before they open a business, whereas men are like, 'I’ll just open a business and figure out how to be a lawyer at the same time.'” — Bridget Norris (02:59)

Core Values as the Foundation for Practice Growth

• Revenue Follows Culture (03:57): Amanda pushes back on the profit-only mindset, arguing that prioritizing team culture and values leads to financial success.
  • “The revenue follows the culture and the satisfaction and the personal growth... when you do all those things in a way consistent with your own personal values, the revenue takes care of itself.” — Amanda DuBois (03:57)
• Vision-Driven Practice (04:49): Amanda’s method emphasizes clarity of vision and recruitment/hiring aligned with firm values, not just skills.
  • “This is what I want to have happen, this is the vision that I want... you create this vibe that sort of permeates your culture.” — Amanda DuBois (04:49)
• The Danger of Revenue Obsession: Focusing strictly on money creates anxiety, which toxicly impacts team culture and client attraction.

Operationalizing Values in Hiring and Team Culture

• Living Your Values (06:40): Amanda discusses “recruiting for attitude,” talking openly about the firm’s values throughout the hiring process, and making those values explicit to all employees.
  • “You recruit for it... you have to talk about it. At least you have to make it obvious to your team what your values are.” — Amanda DuBois (06:40)
• Remote Work Transformation: The COVID-19 pandemic catalyzed a shift to remote work, with Amanda emphasizing well-being and flexibility over physical presence.
  • “People learn quickly that our culture is, we want our employees to be happy, and they’re not gonna be happy if we make them come into work all the time.” — Amanda DuBois (07:37)

Getting Real: How to Identify and Build Around Your Values

• The Power of Self-Inquiry (08:24; 10:27): Amanda advocates for introspection—getting honest about your personal values and letting those drive your business design, even if it feels “uncomfortable.”
  • “Try to get out of your head and get into your heart a little bit more.” — Amanda DuBois (09:29)
• Letting Go of Tradition: Law firm owners (especially women) are cautioned against feeling pressured to replicate established, hierarchical firm models.

Overcoming Fear & Supporting Women in Law

• Barriers to Women Starting Law Firms (12:02; 13:39): Amanda and Bridget discuss how traditional law firm structures and lack of mentorship foster fear — leading many women to leave the profession or never consider entrepreneurship.
  • “There’s law and then there’s law firms. You might love the law...but what you don’t like is the way it’s been structured into a law firm.” — Amanda DuBois (13:39)
• Amanda’s “Next Logical Step” Approach (14:04): Amanda’s origin story: she started her firm step-by-step without grand plans, demystifying the process for listeners.
  • “I had no idea what to do...I just started doing the next logical thing.” — Amanda DuBois (14:04)
• Mentorship Was Scarce (16:47): Early-career isolation for women in law and why modern peer support is critical.
  • “When I started this, I didn’t know any woman...entrepreneur lawyer type. It wasn’t a thing.” — Amanda DuBois (16:47)

Reimagining Associate Training: The Medical Model

• Amanda’s Nursing Background (18:21): Before law, Amanda was a nurse—a perspective that shaped her “residency model” for new lawyers.
• New Lawyer “Residency” (20:56): Rather than throwing young lawyers into high-stakes situations, Amanda’s team shadows and learns side-by-side before taking on their own clients.
  • “When you get out of medical school, you don’t know anything about being a doctor. But they’re smart enough to go do residencies...That’s why I do my law firm. So it’s different.” — Amanda DuBois (20:56 & 22:14)

Hiring for Life Experience and Core Values

• Second-Career Lawyers as Hidden Gems (24:42): Amanda prefers hiring associates with real-world experience (especially parents/mothers), emphasizing their people skills and empathy.
  • “We have a lot of second career people...New lawyers who are second career people are awesome hires.” — Amanda DuBois (24:42)
• Law Firm as a “Family” (26:33): Amanda frames onboarding as “adopting a kid” — investing in people’s careers, not just expecting them to lighten the firm owner’s workload.

Flexibility, Transparency, and Economic Empowerment

• Work-Life Integration (30:10): Team members are trusted to manage their time, only missing family events when absolutely necessary (e.g., court dates).
  • “I want people to come to work and feel like they’re loved and cared for. And I’ll use the love word honestly.” — Amanda DuBois (30:27)
• Custom Workloads and Compensation (30:45): Employees self-select their billable hour targets and corresponding salaries via transparent budgeting.
• Radical Flexibility Example (34:56): Amanda shares a standout story of a high-performing associate who works remotely while living with her family in a converted school bus.
  • “She has like a little pod in the back of the school bus and a Starlink on her roof. And she’s one of the top billers in our firm. So anything is possible.” — Amanda DuBois (34:56)
• Culture Over Surveillance (28:14): A cautionary tale of a traditional partner micromanaging late-night office attendance is contrasted with Amanda’s autonomy-first ethos.

Mindset and Resilience in Legal Entrepreneurship

• Be Brave (36:44): Amanda encourages listeners to step into the unknown with courage — it’s less scary and more rewarding than it seems.
  • "Be brave. It does require a little...brave first step...But once you get there, it isn’t really unknown, because if you’ve been sort of creating this vision of what you want, when you get there it’s going to be recognizable." — Amanda DuBois (36:44)
• Reframing Setbacks (37:38): Adopt a growth mindset—when something goes wrong, see it as part of your journey, not a disaster.
  • “This isn’t what I thought it was gonna look like on my way to building a fantastic law firm. And that is a huge shift.” — Amanda DuBois (37:38)

Notable Quotes & Moments

• On values-first law firm design:
  • “If your business doesn’t reflect your values, you’re not building a practice. You’re building a prison.” — Bridget Norris (00:55)
• On the long-term payoff of culture:
  • “The revenue’s been insanely good...But it was never, ‘let’s see how much money we can make.’ It’s more like, ‘let’s build the culture we want to build.’” — Amanda DuBois (03:57)
• On second chances and giving back:
  • “It is not more than once I have paid for people therapy...in my big world life view, that’s really not that much. In her life, it’s life changing.” — Amanda DuBois (30:56)
• On work-life integration:
  • “You block out your schedule...If you have to go pick up your kid at noon...or if your kid is a lacrosse player...and you be responsible about it.” — Amanda DuBois (31:58)
• On bold leadership:
  • “Be brave...be willing to step into the unknown.” — Amanda DuBois (36:44)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 01:47 — Amanda’s 30-year journey & women in law firm leadership
• 03:57 — Values over revenue as a business model
• 06:40 — Operationalizing values in recruitment and team culture
• 08:24 — How to get started with a values-based firm
• 10:27 — The importance (and discomfort) of self-inquiry for leaders
• 13:39 — The difference between loving law and law firm culture
• 14:04 — Amanda’s “next logical step” approach to law firm creation
• 18:21 — Amanda’s prior career as a nurse and how it shapes lawyer training
• 24:42 — The competitive advantage of hiring second-career/junior lawyers
• 30:27 — Practice-wide transparency and personalized career development
• 34:56 — Radical flexibility: The school bus lawyer story
• 36:44 — Be brave: Amanda’s advice for would-be founders
• 37:38 — The growth mindset: setbacks as progress, not failure

Takeaways for Law Firm Entrepreneurs

• Start with your “why” and build everything else around it.
• Recruit for attitudes and life experience, not just technical skills.
• Mentorship and transparency foster loyalty and high performance.
• Work-life flexibility and empathy are not perks — they’re strategic advantages.
• Bravery, not perfection, moves you forward.

For attorneys and law firm leaders, this conversation is a case study in combining profitability with principle, challenging the status quo, and making legal entrepreneurship a vehicle for personal and social change.