The Lawfare Podcast – Archive Episode: Explaining the Michigan Fake Electors Prosecution

Date: November 22, 2025 (original episode from August 16, 2023)
Host: Quinta Jurecic, Senior Editor at Lawfare
Guest: Clara Hendrickson, Politics Reporter, Detroit Free Press

Episode Overview

This archival episode revisits a critical discussion on the Michigan prosecutions stemming from the 2020 election "fake electors" scheme. Lawfare's Quinta Jurecic and journalist Clara Hendrickson dissect two unfolding criminal cases: charges against Michigan’s alleged fake electors, and a separate prosecution over unauthorized access to voting machines. Through careful analysis, they provide historical context, detail the significance of Michigan as a battleground in post-2020 election litigation and conspiracy, and examine the political, legal, and institutional responses.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Michigan Fake Electors Prosecution

(Begins ~03:24)

• Background:

  • On July 18, 2023, Michigan Attorney General Dana Nessel filed criminal charges against 16 Michigan Republicans for submitting a fraudulent certificate claiming to be the state's duly elected presidential electors, despite Trump losing the state.
    • Felony charges include conspiracy to commit forgery and election law forgery.
    • Sentencing exposure: up to 85 years in prison for some defendants.
  • Michigan is the first state to bring such criminal charges over the fake elector scheme.

• Scheme Details:

  • December 14, 2020: The same day Michigan electors met to officially cast electoral votes for Joe Biden, the fake slate of Republican electors gathered, attempted to enter the State Capitol (were denied), and sent fraudulent documents to the National Archives, falsely indicating Trump had won.
  • Clara Hendrickson:

    “They sent a certificate claiming that they were the duly elected presidential electors for Michigan. They weren’t. And that they had met in the Capitol to cast the state's Electoral College votes. They didn’t.” (06:15)

• Federal and State Coordination:

  • AG Nessel originally referred the matter to federal authorities; after perceived federal inaction, reopened Michigan’s investigation herself in early 2023.

2. Who Are the Fake Electors?

(Begins ~09:32)

• Profiles:

  • The group includes high-level Republican operatives (e.g., former MI GOP co-chair Michonne Maddock, RNC committeewoman Kathy Berden), local officials (election clerks, school board members, a mayor), and grassroots Trump supporters.
  • Many regarded the 2020 election as an existential fight (“a stark choice between saving the republic and democratic socialism”).

• Defenses:

  • Two main lines:
    1. Some claim ignorance (e.g., Michelle Lundgren: “thought she was just signing her name to a sign-in sheet”) (12:35)
    2. Others (e.g., Maddock) say it was contingency planning in case Trump’s legal challenges succeeded.

• Prosecution Philosophy:

  • All 16 indicted because, according to Nessel, “they all knew what they were doing…knowingly signing a phony document with the intent to defraud.” (14:25)

3. Trump Campaign & RNC Role

(Begins ~15:06)

• National Coordination:
  • Former Michigan GOP Chair Laura Cox testified about Trump allies proposing fake electors sleep overnight in the Capitol to get around security. RNC Chair Ronna McDaniel testified that John Eastman (Trump’s legal advisor) lobbied the RNC to help assemble alternate electors.
  • Ultimately, this wasn’t a rogue operation; “this is really something that is coordinated with the Trump campaign as part of Trump's ongoing efforts to stay in power.” (17:27)
  • Trump campaign aides were present at meetings where fake electors gathered.

4. Michigan GOP & Republican Reaction

(Begins ~18:31)

• State Party's Stance:

  • Rather than distancing, Michigan GOP accused AG Nessel of “authoritarian tendencies and weaponizing her office.”
  • By contrast, some Republican legislators (e.g., Matt Hall, House Oversight Committee) acknowledged the gravity of charges but cautioned against politicization.

• Broader GOP Divide:

  • Growing split between party apparatus (increasingly entrenched in election denial) and Republican elected officials seeking to move past 2020.

5. Why Michigan Became a Hotbed

(Begins ~21:38)

• Swing State Importance:

  • Michigan, decided by a razor-thin margin in 2016, became “front and center again in 2020” (22:15) for Trump’s false stolen-election claims.
  • Narrative traction in right-wing media transformed minor tabulation issues (e.g., Antrim County error) into conspiracy fuel.

• “Whack-a-Mole” Reporting:

  • Hendrickson describes the torrent of claims as:

    “It was like playing Whack a Mole…a constant race against time watching social media and Trump’s tweets and the numbers of likes and retweets going up exponentially while I was in the middle of fact checking.” (23:47)

6. Civil Litigation: The Kraken Lawsuits, Sanctions, and Fallout

(Begins ~29:46)

• Numerous cases:
  • Waves of lawsuits in Michigan challenged absentee voting, alleged ballot irregularities—none succeeded.
  • Sidney Powell’s “Kraken” case is especially notable; all involved lawyers sanctioned, ordered to pay legal fees and undergo remedial education.
  • Hendrickson:

    "We just had a ruling from the 6th Circuit Court of Appeals upholding sanctions for all but two of them." (31:46)

7. Voting Machine Tampering Prosecution

(Begins ~33:02)

• Defendants:

  • Matthew DePerno (2022 Republican AG candidate), former state representative Daire Rendon, and attorney Stephanie Lambert (involved in Kraken case).
  • Allegedly seized voting machines after the election, conducting unauthorized access and testing.

• Legal Nuance:

  • Michigan law prohibits “undue possession” of voting machines without authorization.
  • Distinction: DePerno’s Antrim County machine examination was court-sanctioned; the subsequent acts allegedly were not.

• Motives:

  • Attempted to find evidence of fraud, coordinated with national efforts to scrutinize voting systems.
  • Lambert heavily involved, with text messages showing her discussing secret access to machines with Doug Logan (Cyber Ninjas), and instructing secrecy:

    “We have access to new machines here ... keep that a secret.” (Hendrickson paraphrasing, 44:05)

8. Unusual Prosecutorial Caution & Process

(Begins ~40:23)

• The special prosecutor sought judicial clarification before charging, and used a grand jury (rarity in MI) to insulate from political claims.

  “He sort of emphasized when the charges were announced that this was done by an independent group of citizens.” (41:10)

• Nessel similarly acknowledged politicization but felt refusal to act would be “malfeasance…in the face of overwhelming evidence of guilt.” (41:10)

9. Cyber Ninjas Connection

(Begins ~43:17)

• Doug Logan, CEO of Cyber Ninjas (famed for AZ audit), was involved in Michigan voting machine access but not charged, due to uncertainty over his knowledge of authorization.
• Gannett’s Arizona Republic uncovered text exchanges between Logan and Lambert, providing insight into internal communications among election denial actors.

10. Outlook: Scope of Prosecution & Ongoing Impact

(Begins ~45:36)

• No further charges expected in voting machine case; additional indictments possible in electors investigation.
• Most stones have been “turned over”—future revelations likely to be incremental.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On fake elector defenses:

  “We were tricked or deceived into signing something and we weren’t fully informed of what the document said.” – Clara Hendrickson (12:35)

• On local reporting challenges:

  “It was constant. It was like playing Whack a Mole. And it was tough because it was kind of a constant race against time … while I was in the middle of fact checking some of the claims he was making.” – Clara Hendrickson (23:47)

• On prosecutorial caution:

  “He petitioned to convene a grand jury which actually brought the charges. It’s a group of citizens who get advice from the special prosecutor ... just how unusual the handling of the investigation has been in that case.” – Clara Hendrickson (41:10)

• On covering the never-ending 2020 story:

  “There’s a presidential election next year, but I never stopped covering the last one ... Sometimes it’s a little bit exhausting to cover what feels like an interminable election, but … 2020 is always sort of humming in the background.” – Clara Hendrickson (47:21)

Timestamps for Significant Segments

• 02:16 – Contextual intro: Recent NV Supreme Court ruling, connections to national developments
• 03:24 – Start of original archive interview; Michigan fake electors charges overview
• 06:15 – Details of Michigan’s fake elector scheme
• 08:22 – Why charges were brought by state, not feds; AG Nessel’s rationale
• 09:45 – Breakdown of who the fake electors are
• 12:35 – Defenses adopted by fake electors
• 15:06 – Role of Trump campaign/RNC in orchestrating scheme
• 18:31 – Michigan GOP’s response; intra-party divisions
• 21:38 – Why Michigan became a focus of conspiracy/litigation
• 23:47 – Reporting on the onslaught of conspiracy theories
• 29:46 – Recap of civil litigation and the “Kraken” case
• 31:46 – Sanctions against Kraken attorneys; legal consequences
• 33:17 – Charges against DePerno, Lambert, and Rendon for voting machine tampering
• 41:10 – Prosecutor’s defensive legal posture (grand jury, declaratory ruling)
• 43:17 – Cyber Ninjas (Doug Logan) involvement in MI
• 45:36 – Expectations for further charges and investigations
• 47:21 – Personal impact: Reporting through endless 2020 fallout

Conclusion

This episode offers a thorough, journalistic account of the Michigan fake elector prosecution and voting machine tampering case, contextualizing them within the national post-2020 election landscape. Through legal analysis, on-the-ground reporting, and first-person reflection, it reveals not only the mechanics of these attempts to subvert electoral outcomes but the broader implications for American democracy, institutional accountability, and the persistent echo of 2020’s conspiracies.