The Lawfare Podcast: Ideology, Action, and Terrorism in the 1970s

Date: February 24, 2026
Host: Michael Feinberg
Guest: Jason Burke, journalist with The Guardian and author of The Revolutionists

Episode Overview

This episode features a deep dive into the turbulent world of 1970s terrorism, both in Europe and the Middle East, through the lens of Jason Burke’s new book, The Revolutionists. The discussion explores the complex ideological origins, the interplay between leftist and Islamist militants, governmental responses, and the enduring cultural fascination with this era. With keen historical and philosophical analysis, Feinberg and Burke unpack what drove individuals and movements to violent extremes, how states responded, and why we’re still captivated by these stories fifty years later.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Motivations for Writing About 1970s Terrorism

[02:42] Jason Burke

• Burke began the research while writing about ISIS, which unexpectedly led him back to the 1960s and 70s.
• The era was marked by a “global moment of revolutionary activism,” spanning leftist, secular, nationalist, and nascent Islamist movements.
• Significant events and iconic individuals from this time, like Che Guevara, Sayyid Qutb, Munich 1972, and the Entebbe raid, merited new examination.

"Everything we've been told, everything I've been reading about the roots of al-Qaeda, about the roots of ISIS itself, kind of took us back to the 80s and...suddenly I found myself 15 years further back." — Jason Burke (04:18)

2. The Overlapping Worlds of Leftist and Islamist Militancy

[06:01] Jason Burke

• There was a significant “Venn diagram” of interaction, particularly among Palestinian secular nationalists and international leftists.
• Islamist groups, though distinct in social mores, were inspired by the revolutionary energy of the left.
• The failure of leftist movements in the Middle East created a vacuum exploited by radical Islamists in the late 70s and 80s.

"The Islamists were definitely influenced by the leftists. And most importantly, they were also proposing a revolutionary project." — Jason Burke (07:01)

3. Shared Enemies, Divergent Values

[09:04] Jason Burke

• While leftists and Islamists diverged sharply in lifestyles and personal habits, they shared common enemies (imperialism, Zionism, capitalism, the US).
• Both camps adopted rhetoric of anti-colonialism and believed in “transformative change through violence,” though their visions of society were starkly opposed.

"If you did put someone from the IRGC and Bader together in a room...they would absolutely bond on the evils wrought by the US across the world." — Jason Burke (10:45)

4. Violence as a Regenerative Force and the Sartre-Baader Debate

[11:47] Michael Feinberg & Jason Burke

• Both leftist and Islamist ideologies were influenced by the theory (notably Fanon’s work) that violence can awaken the oppressed.
• Jean-Paul Sartre’s 1970s meeting with Fritz Baader (of the Red Army Faction) revealed deep philosophical disagreements:

"I thought they were sending me a friend, but they have sent me a judge." — Sartre recounting his visit with Baader (12:51, as relayed by Burke)

• The episode highlights the tension between “focoist” revolutionary violence and patient Marxist mobilization.

5. The Profiles and Motivations of Key Militants

[16:56] Jason Burke

• Red Army Faction: Diverse personalities—Baader was described as “a loud-mouthed boaster,” while Gudrun Ensslin and Ulrike Meinhof were the real intellectual and logistical drivers.
• Motivation ranged from genuine ideological commitment to thrill-seeking and a desire for notoriety; some, like Carlos the Jackal, were less ideological and more interested in the lifestyle.

"[Carlos the Jackal] is...not interested in Marxism. He's interested in the mayhem and what it brings him in the way of...luxury hotels and women and cars and money and guns and excitement." — Jason Burke (21:54)

6. The Farcical Realities Behind Infamous Terrorists

[23:21] Jason Burke

• Despite their legends, many militants displayed incompetence and luck:

"It is really kind of black comedy...Keystone Cop stuff...but he's [Carlos] very good at manipulating people...and how to manipulate mass public opinion and what the new media in the 70s can do for him." — Jason Burke (23:48–25:50)

Governmental Responses: West vs. Middle East

1. Western Europe’s Mixed, Often Ameliorative Approach

[35:52] Michael Feinberg & Jason Burke

• Early European strategies emphasize negotiation, deal-making, and limited use of force, largely because the terrorism was rooted in specific, external conflicts (e.g., the Israeli-Palestinian conflict).
• Development of elite counter-terror units (e.g., German GSG-9, Israeli special forces) shifted these policies toward active interventions by late 1970s.
• Legal and conceptual confusion reigned in the early years (“air pirates,” no hijacking legislation).

"In the early period, this kind of confusion over what they're facing. I mean, what is this threat?...There isn't any legislation, there's no kind of offense of hijacking a plane." — Jason Burke (38:47)

2. Middle Eastern States' Repressive Methods

• Governments such as Jordan and Saudi Arabia responded with overwhelming force: “mass executions, you destroy cities, you do whatever you need, huge numbers of arrests, massive prisons, torture.”
• Yet, neither extreme approach (negotiation or repression) “seems to work” in preventing the persistence of terrorism.
• In the West, the demands of the broader protest movement were partially met (e.g., expanded rights, educational reforms), draining energy from the fringes.

Lessons Learned (or Not) by Western Governments

[43:16] Michael Feinberg & Jason Burke

• Many leftist activists eventually entered government (especially in Europe), but official responses to post-9/11 terrorism often failed to draw lessons from the 1970s.
• American and European approaches post-2001 differed: America repeated 1980s-style “war on terror” logic (state sponsorship, external blame), while Europe tended to see terrorism as a political symptom, echoing 1970s thinking.

"Do we go for the 70s analysis of terrorism? Do we go for the 80s analysis of terrorism?" — Jason Burke (49:21)

• Intelligence/law enforcement often produced nuanced, historically-aware analyses that were lost in the political messaging.

Notable Quote:

"What you do need…is, you know, intellectual honesty and looking at the problem as it is, not as you want it to be, because it fits your preconceived worldview." — Jason Burke (50:39)

The Enduring Cultural Fascination with 1970s Terrorism

[52:53] Michael Feinberg & Jason Burke

• Decades later, pop culture returns repeatedly to these events (films like Assayas’ Carlos, The Baader Meinhof Complex, documentaries, and others).
• Appeal lies partly in the relatability and charisma of young militants (“good looking, want to change the world,” fashionable) and the seismic events (Munich, Entebbe).
• The romance of radical action is compelling: “That was the last time anybody thought that...that idealism had gone and we’d never recaptured it for good or ill.”
• Music and aesthetics play a big role: The era’s post-punk and new wave soundtrack endures as well.

Notable Quote:

"Above all, I think now, it was a time when young people...felt they could change the world...they genuinely felt they could make a...difference...be part of something that would transform the planet forever. And that was the last time anybody thought that." — Jason Burke (54:37)

On Favorite Song from the Era:

"It’s the Clash 1982, 'Rock the Casbah'...it’s also just full of these really quite amusing, in retrospect, kind of geopolitical references..." — Jason Burke (57:38)

Memorable Moments & Timestamps

• Baader and Sartre’s Prison Meeting (12:36–13:51): A philosophical clash over the use of violence.
• Carlos the Jackal’s Keystone Kops Terrorism (23:21–26:47): Burke describes Carlos’s criminal farce, interwoven with manipulative genius.
• Monty Python and the Infinite Acronym Split (36:49–37:09): The multitude of Palestinian factions likened to Life of Brian’s comic rivalry.
• Pop Culture Endures (52:53–57:38): Why the era still grips filmmakers, musicians, and audiences.

Conclusion

The conversation provides both a granular and bird’s-eye view of an era when ideology, activism, and violence intersected to shape the modern world. Burke’s analysis, paired with sharp questions from Feinberg, reveals both the intellectual depth and the often absurd human realities behind the myths—and offers sobering lessons for today’s policymakers and engaged citizens.