The Lawfare Podcast — Mary Clare Jalonik on ‘Storm at the Capitol’

Date: January 8, 2026
Host: Michael Feinberg (Senior Editor, Lawfare)
Guest: Mary Clare Jalonik (Author, Storm at the Capitol: An Oral History of January 6th)

Overview

This episode of The Lawfare Podcast features an in-depth discussion between host Michael Feinberg and journalist-author Mary Clare Jalonik about her new book, Storm at the Capitol: An Oral History of January 6th. As the fifth anniversary of the Capitol attack approaches, Jalonik reflects on the process of compiling firsthand accounts from lawmakers, police, staff, rioters, and more, embedding the tumultuous events in a definitive, nonpartisan oral history. The conversation covers the failures leading up to the attack, the day’s chaos from her firsthand reporter perspective, how misinformation and attempts to downplay the event have evolved, and the enduring lessons for American democracy.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Defining January 6 and Its Significance

• Language Matters:
  • Different labels—“insurrection,” “attack,” “riot,” “siege”—have been used for Jan 6.
    • Mary Clare Jalonik:

      "At AP we have used the term insurrection since it happened… I use all of those words interchangeably. Attack, riot, siege... it doesn’t change what actually happened." (02:45)

  • Feinberg notes the ongoing efforts to downplay the events by figures once publicly horrified by them. (03:18)
• Why the Oral History?
  • Jalonik was motivated by misinformation and attempts to revise public memory:

    "There’s really no better way than to try to interview as many people as you can or find as many public records of people talking about their experiences that day and document them for history in one place." (04:23)

    • Her book gathers diverse voices: rioters, lawmakers across parties, staff, reporters, and Capitol workers.

Firsthand Reporter Experience in the Capitol

• Inside the House Gallery:
  • Jalonik recalls being trapped with lawmakers, hearing rioters trying to break in below, and the surreal fear among congressional staff unaccustomed to violence.

    "I ended up sort of in a gallery of the House with a bunch of lawmakers. I'm kind of trapped for a little while as rioters were, you know, trying to beat down the doors..." (05:59)

Pre-Attack Failures: Intelligence and Imagination

• Everyone Knew It Wasn’t ‘Routine’—Except Security:
  • Journalists sensed the day would not be 'routine.'

    "I did not expect violence either...there was just a lot of suspenseful, what's going to happen, what's Pence going to do?" (08:48)

• Leadership Disconnect:
  • Feinberg recounts conversations with law enforcement aware of the looming danger, unlike higher-ups.

    "Line level personnel…just had an intuition this was going to break bad. But the senior management… didn't seem to have a plan for how violent it actually got." (13:18)

  • Jalonik describes pre-event reports minimizing the threat:

    "All of those situational reports said...they expected an event similar to these other two events... one paragraph, like buried in the middle, basically predicted exactly what happened." (14:53)

  • "Failure of the imagination"—those in charge simply couldn’t envision the scale and kind of violence that unfolded.

Misinformation and Political Tensions

• Blame Shifting as It Unfolded:
  • Some lawmakers, e.g., Matt Gaetz, suggested ‘antifa’ or BLM protesters were responsible, relying on erroneous reports.

    "I heard him say it and I remember it just being like such a moment...it made him so mad that [Adam Kinzinger] got up and he said...‘everyone knows that [Biden] won’..." (18:21)

  • Jalonik compares the deep divisions to past moments of national trauma, with Jan 6th increasing rather than bridging divides.

The Oral History Approach: Gathering Firsthand Accounts

• Why Oral, Not a Narrative?

  "The idea is to have everyone’s perspective in one place...it might not always be exactly the same from person to person, but it does give you an idea of sort of the nuance of the day." (21:47)

• Source Diversity:
  • About half is composed of Jalonik’s interviews; the rest from court records, the Jan 6th committee, C-SPAN interviews, and media/public testimonies soon after the attack.
  • Every source is meticulously documented for transparency.

Notable Interview Insights and Author Reflections

• Access and Gaps:
  • Jalonik reflects on the difficulty of getting some sitting Republicans and Capitol staff to speak on the record, particularly years after the events.

    "There are a lot of people who are still working in the Capitol who are not authorized to talk about January 6th. So that is something that I hope eventually will change..." (27:36)

• Personal Surprises in the Account Collection:
  • The police and lawmakers—trained for danger—recognized threat and gunfire instantly, unlike her, a journalist used to routine coverage.

    "I had no idea what was happening...I learned so much from talking to them." (30:18)

  • The true extent and brutality of violence outside the building were not clear to her until piecing together these narratives.

The Human Cost: Physical & Psychological Trauma

• Police Experiences:
  • Many officers feared for their lives and later described the day in terms that suggested deep trauma.

    "How many of them thought that they were going to die that day. That was really surprising to me." (34:12)

• Lasting Injuries and Loss:
  • Officers suffered both visible injuries and mental health issues, with several suicides among those who responded.

    "There were two police officers actually who took their own lives in the days afterwards...There were four police officers who were there that day who took their own lives in the following months..." (37:39)

Unsung Heroes and Moments of Sacrifice

• Staff Saving the Electoral Ballots:
  • Unheralded staffers carried the physical electoral paperwork to safety during the evacuation.

    "That was such an important move...staff took the boxes...one of the senators I interviewed… talked about as they were leaving, bipartisan group of senators were like, you know, let us help you with those boxes..." (40:31)

• Officer Eugene Goodman:
  • Guided rioters away from the Senate chamber, possibly preventing greater bloodshed.

    "It was kind of a masterful move that potentially, you know, saved, you know...if rioters had gotten close to that door, there would have been gunfire at that point." (45:02)

Memorable Quotes

• On the failure of imagination and readiness:

  "It was almost like a perfect storm of different failures, security wise." – Mary Clare Jalonik (08:48, echoed at 01:10 and 13:18)

• On oral history as method:

  "The idea is to have everyone’s perspective in one place...it's not about what I think...it's about what people are actually saying that they saw and they thought and they felt in that moment." – Mary Clare Jalonik (21:47)

• On police trauma:

  "Just over and over in testimony and interviews, they said, you know, I thought this was it. Like I thought, I thought that this, I might not come home that day..." – Mary Clare Jalonik (41:40, also at 30:18 repetition)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Defining January 6th; Terminology and Downplaying: 01:26–04:23
• Oral History Motivation and Experience: 04:23–05:56
• Personal Account—Trapped in the Gallery: 05:56–07:05
• Pre-Attack Warnings, Security Failings: 07:05–13:18
• Leadership Misjudgment: 13:18–17:43
• Blame of Antifa/BLM and Political Tensions: 17:43–21:12
• Making the Oral History, Sourcing, and Surprises: 21:12–30:18
• Police and Lawmaker Trauma; Inside vs. Outside Perspective: 30:18–36:17
• Line of Duty Deaths & Mental Health: 36:17–39:01
• Unsung Heroes—Electoral Ballots, Eugene Goodman: 40:31–45:02
• Key Lesson & Closing Reflections: 47:18–48:32

Notable Closing

Takeaway lesson:

"The idea of the book is that people can read it themselves and see what happened and get it from firsthand accounts, and then they can decide what they think about the significance of that day or what happened... having the facts is really important, and that's the idea behind the book." (47:28)

Host’s closing recommendation:

"I will unhesitatingly recommend your book to anybody in our audience who wants to understand what it was like on the ground at the Capitol on January 6th." – Michael Feinberg (48:32)

Memorable Moments & Quotes with Timestamps

• "We knew there would be mischief. We didn't know there was going to be violence." – Nancy Pelosi (quoted by Jalonik) (08:52)
• "I thought this was it. I might not come home that day." – Multiple police (Jalonik paraphrasing) (41:40)
• "There were four police officers who were there that day who took their own lives in the following months." (37:39)

Tone and Language

The conversation is sober, reflective, and respectful—matching the gravity of January 6. Both interviewer and guest punctuate their factual recaps with personal anecdotes and emotional insights, emphasizing nonpartisanship and fidelity to firsthand experience. There is a constant return to the ordinary heroism and communal trauma of the day, and a respect for the facts as recounted by those who lived through the Capitol attack.