The Lawfare Podcast: Rational Security – The “Berry Boy Blue” Edition (March 19, 2025)

Hosted by The Lawfare Institute, this episode of "Rational Security" delves into critical national security issues, congressional dynamics, and the Trump administration's aggressive military maneuvers in the Middle East. Featuring insightful discussions with co-hosts Benjamin Wittes and Molly Reynolds, the episode offers a comprehensive analysis of recent developments impacting U.S. governance and international relations.

1. Congressional Dynamics and the Avoidance of Government Shutdown

Overview: The episode opens with an in-depth discussion on the recent maneuvers within Congress to pass a continuing resolution (CR) aimed at preventing a government shutdown. Speaker of the House Mike Johnson played a pivotal role in uniting the narrow Republican majority to push the CR through both the House and the Senate, despite internal divisions and external pressures.

Key Points:

• Continuing Resolution Passage: The bipartisan effort to pass the CR was crucial in keeping the government operational beyond the March 14 deadline. Benjamin Wittes highlights the complexity of the situation, emphasizing the executive branch's interference with congressional spending powers.

• Democratic Minority's Strategy: Molly Reynolds critiques the Democratic response, questioning why there wasn't a stronger pushback against the CR holdings, especially considering the administration's attempts to intrude on congressional appropriations.

• Political Ramifications: The discussion underscores the potential long-term impacts on future fiscal debates, including the debt ceiling and other legislative battles anticipated later in the year.

Notable Quotes:

• Molly Reynolds [08:15]: "When Trump administration interferes with Congress's appropriations power, it's not normal times to be making ordinary congressional deals."

• Benjamin Wittes [23:55]: "If you're the Senate, if that's the one spot you have any leverage... I just don't like the calculus on the Democrats part to say like, this is not something, this is something that we just could not live with."

2. Trump Administration's Escalated Military Operations in the Middle East

Overview: The conversation shifts to the Trump administration's intensified military actions across the Middle East, targeting ISIS in Iraq, the Houthis in Yemen, and renewing hostilities in Gaza. The unifying threat cited across these operations is Iran, prompting debates on the effectiveness and risks associated with this "maximum pressure" campaign.

Key Points:

• Operations Against ISIS and Houthis: Scott R. Anderson outlines the joint military operations in Iraq that successfully eliminated a senior ISIS leader and the aggressive airstrikes against the Houthis in Yemen, positioning these actions as direct responses to ongoing threats.

• Renewed Hostilities in Gaza: The collapse of the ceasefire in Gaza marks a significant escalation, with over 400 reported casualties from recent airstrikes. The administration’s strategy appears to aim at altering the status quo on the ground, further complicating regional stability.

• Iran as the Central Threat: Both co-hosts agree that Iran remains a critical focal point, with its designation as a foreign terrorist organization being a strategic move, although they note that legal justifications for military actions often extend beyond such designations.

Notable Quotes:

• Scott R. Anderson [30:54]: "This is a forefront defeat for Iran, which is already an economic mess... This is a horrible move to preserve what remains of their position."

• Benjamin Wittes [34:34]: "People don't think [Iran] is the threat it once was and is much more susceptible to this sort of military pressuring."

3. President Trump's Unprecedented Speech at the Department of Justice

Overview: In a startling development, President Trump delivered an extended, unscripted speech at the Department of Justice (DOJ), where he vehemently criticized ongoing criminal cases against him, labeled certain individuals as enemies, and praised allies within the DOJ. This segment examines the implications of such a public address within a federal institution.

Key Points:

• Content of the Speech: The President's hour-long address misrepresented the criminal cases against him, publicly naming opponents and expressing contempt for legal proceedings. This overt politicization of the DOJ marks a significant departure from traditional executive interactions with federal agencies.

• Institutional Integrity at Risk: Scott R. Anderson expresses his concern over the erosion of the DOJ’s independence, stating, "For the Attorney General to be talking that way is really abhorrent to the values that the Justice Department is supposed to be about."

• Legal and Political Implications: Benjamin Wittes discusses the potential backlash within the judiciary and among the broader political landscape, suggesting that such actions may undermine legal defenses and alienate moderates within the Republican base.

Notable Quotes:

• Scott R. Anderson [67:44]: "President Trump... treats the Justice Department like any other federal agency and directly reportable to the president in exactly the same way, which, of course, is constitutionally true and normatively abhorrent."

• Benjamin Wittes [74:38]: "I think this makes his ability to do these things, legally or otherwise, much harder because... you have a clear statement of animus of mens rea on the part of the president."

Conclusion: Institutional Erosion and Future Implications

The episode concludes with reflections on the broader implications of the discussed topics. The co-hosts emphasize the alarming trends of executive overreach and the weakening of institutional checks within the U.S. government. They caution that these developments not only threaten the balance of power but also set dangerous precedents for future administrations.

Final Thoughts:

• Molly Reynolds: Highlights the symbolic destruction of journalism through the recent layoffs at Voice of America, underscoring the administration's disregard for free press as a pillar of democracy.

• Benjamin Wittes: Encourages listeners to remain vigilant and engaged, suggesting that the erosion of institutional norms requires sustained attention and advocacy to restore foundational governmental principles.

Recommended Reading:

• "The Bright Sword" by Lev Grossman: Co-host Benjamin Wittes recommends this fantasy novel for its intricate blending of Arthurian legend with contemporary sociopolitical themes.

Further Engagement: Listeners are encouraged to visit www.lawfareblog.com for more insights and to support the podcast through Patreon for an ad-free experience and additional benefits.

This summary captures the essence of the "Rational Security" episode, providing a thorough overview for those who may not have listened to the full podcast.