← The Leadership Dance
The Leadership Dance
Ep. 14: Navigating leadership in uncertain times, with Christina Hennington
00:46:16
In this inspiring episode of The Leadership Dance, Christina Hennington, EVP & Chief Strategy and Growth Officer for Target, discusses her journey from her Scandinavian roots to her rise in the retail industry. Christina reflects on the influence...
Loading summary
Transcript66 lines
- [00:02]
A
People often have a lot more regret around the things they didn't do than the mistakes that they made. We all make mistakes. Most mistakes can be recovered from. It's the chance you didn't take, or the date you didn't go on, or the job you didn't throw your hat in for that. Most people, when they look back at their life, regret in the long run. And do I always apply that? No. Do I have fears and trepidations like everyone else? Without a doubt. But it has allowed me a level of comfort with taking the next step for sure.
- [00:36]
B
Hello and welcome back to the Leadership Dance. I'm Alisa sue lynch and today I'm really excited to have Christina Hennington on the show. Christina is Executive Vice President and Chief Strategy and Growth Officer for Target and a member of Target's leadership team. A forward thinking enterprise leader, Christina is responsible for ensuring the company's strategy remains relevant and differentiated as it pursues its next growth horizon, establishing and strengthening relationships with strategic partners, and leveraging the power of technology and generative AI to support every aspect of Target's business. Christina has held several leadership roles at Target since joining the company in 2003, most recently overseeing all five of the retailers merchandising categories and its strategy team. In that position, her team's generated more than $30 billion in growth and developed Target's new roadmap for growth. Christina has earned accolades such as Merchandiser of the Year by Women's Wear Daily and one of the most influential women in retail by mass market retailers. She serves on the board of Thor Industries and is a Henry Crown Fellow of the Aspen Institute, which is how we first met. Welcome to the podcast, Christina.
- [01:51]
A
Thank you. I'm really happy to be here and I'm especially happy to be here with you.
- [01:55]
B
You grew up in Sweden and Norway, two beautiful countries full of farms and fjords. What was your childhood like and how did your Scandinavian roots influence how you approached your career? What did you dream of becoming when you were younger?
- [02:09]
A
Great question. My roots in Scandinavia are a huge part of who I am today. I call myself a Scandinavian mutt. I was born in Denmark, raised in Norway and spent my summers in Sweden. And I dreamt of somewhat big things. But it was moving to America when I was 8 years old that changed the aperture for my big dreams. At that time I. I actually wanted to become an astronaut. And I remember laying in snow.
- [02:34]
B
No way.
- [02:35]
A
Yeah, I know. Laying in the snow of. Of our yard and looking up at the stars and promising the stars I'd be there someday or the moon, that I'd be there someday. But I think just being born in a different country and being born in a small country has shaped me in so many different ways. You know, Norway is a country of 5 million people. And so it's not a place where we expect people to know our language or what's going on in Norway. And instead, as a result, we Norwegians, Scandinavians, many Europeans in general, get out into the world to learn other people's languages, especially English, and invest in understanding more broadly what's going on. And my parents imbued that in me growing up to be really a citizen of the world, to embrace the idea of different cultures, different languages. My parents spoke four to five languages each. I still speak four languages today. And many other things came from that early childhood. The idea of working hard, for instance, I think most immigrants get the opportunity to come here to America, which has been an amazing opportunity for me and my family, but you don't want to waste it. You. It's all about proving that you're worthy of this shot and demonstrating that this is a place that you can make your dreams come true and that the country invests back in you. And so hard work, global citizenry, curiosity, and then just. I continue to carry that passion for global thinking in the work I do today. I lead big teams that are global in nature, but I also actively chose a board that has a global footprint so that I can have the opportunity to experience different cultures and think about business problems through the lens of different strategies in different parts of the world.
- [04:14]
B
Yeah. Thank you for sharing that. And I know you love to travel around the world. And when I was living in Europe a couple of years ago, Hugh and I went to visit Norway, and it was one of the most beautiful countries that we have ever been in. And we did that hike up to Trolltunga. And I'm just curious, what did you do during your childhood? Were you out in nature a lot? Did you do a lot of these hikes and take advantage of the beauty there?
- [04:39]
A
Yeah. I mean, first of all, I remember seeing all those pictures on Facebook from those years that you were abroad. And it was like, wow, she is really taking it advantage. So good for you. And I know you still do that today. But I had kind of an easy up, you know, growing up thing. Like it was be outside, come home by dark. And there wasn't a lot of pressure, although I was 8 when we moved here, so I don't know what it would have been like if I had been here. But I have. I do have a strong appreciation for the outdoors. I grew up skiing. Ever since I can remember walking, I still. They kind of renamed the bunny hill of the slope that I always skied on the Krisina Bucken, which means the Christina Hill.
- [05:16]
B
Oh, no way.
- [05:17]
A
Still name that today. And it was. It was good, easy living. I enjoy the. The culture of Scandinavia, the beauty of Scandinavia, the food. But like I said, an opportunity to come to the US Just expanded my view of the world so much. I think one of my, like, earliest memories was walking into the cereal aisle of a grocery store in Norway. We had muesli and cornflakes, and there was, like, 60 different things. And I was like, yes, you see marshmallows in a cereal box. And you're like, what? This is amazing. And everything became expansive about that change, but it was different. I mean, I had to learn English watching Scooby Doo in third grade.
- [05:57]
B
That's awesome. What other languages did you speak? You said you spoke four languages.
- [06:01]
A
I. Well, I speak English, Swedish, Norwegian. And then I was a Spanish literature major in college, along with economics. So I would say my Spanish is a little rusty these days, but I can get by.
- [06:11]
B
What brought your parents to the States? And what. What state did you land in?
- [06:15]
A
My dad was working for a German company, Beiersdorf, actually, you might know that.
- [06:20]
B
Nivea.
- [06:21]
A
Yeah, yeah, exactly. And he had an opportunity to start the US Office for one of the branches of the company, and it brought us to Grand Rapids, Michigan. So right to the heart of the Midwest. I love growing up in Michigan, on the western side of Michigan. Just good people, great environment. You know, like, I. I'm used to the cold, and that wasn't a big change. But then also had moved around quite a bit since then, so moved to the Chicago area, but that's where I started. Great.
- [06:49]
B
You have had an incredibly successful career at Target over the past two decades, holding many different leadership roles across the business. Today, you're the Chief Strategy and Growth Officer, reporting directly into CEO Brian Cornell. Can you tell us more about your career journey and how you got to the C suite?
- [07:06]
A
It's been a really exciting journey, but I'll take you through a couple of the different turns. So I started my career right out of college as a consultant. You know, coming out of a liberal arts degree, that was an easy way to get exposure to business, get exposure to a lot of different companies. I was actually working for PwC and doing much more tech work. And so I was coding. I was in there with clients and the Great thing about that Start is first I got to see a lot of different companies, so I got to experience different cultures, different business models, different brands. And I quickly assembled a perspective for only being, you know, in my early 20s about what I liked and what I didn't like about certain businesses. I figured out that I was a lot better at the business questions than I was at the coding. And so I knew I needed to make a career, switch out of technology and went to work for a couple startups, but then ultimately went back to business school to kind of make a broader pivot. And I totally stumbled upon retail as an option. Target was recruiting at Kellogg that year. We had always recruited for finance leadership, but we had never recruited for buyers directly off of campus. And they hired me. I was the only one that they had hired with that profile. And I was kind of the trial buyer and from that background and I got an amazing opportunity to land in sporting goods and toys as my first job. And I was hooked on retail from the get go. It's fast paced, it's broad. You get to manage a portfolio, you have large P and L ownership right away, and it's a total consumer centric business model. You know, coming from consulting, where I was doing SAP implementations, you know, you tell your parents what you do and they're like, yeah, I don't really get it. Then you say like, oh, I picked all those toys and priced them and figured out what they were going to, how they were going to be presented in the store and they're like, oh, okay, that's tangible, you know, And I built a career from there in merchandising primarily. Lots of different roles, lots of different categories, you know, broader and broader scope. I had an opportunity to run a capability, led part of the business and do a major transformation effort. Had an opportunity over time to do M and A work, worked on the team that divested our pharmacies and partnered with CVS to bring them into Target. Really the whole journey has been not linear, but really expansive in terms of the opportunities it's afforded me. Ultimately, five years ago, I joined the leadership team, which was just an interesting time to join the leadership team.
- [09:43]
B
Oh, yes. Maybe before we get into that, you know, what you said about what drew you to the retail industry really resonates for me. You know, I started my career out of business school in a consumer marketing job at jj. When I was moving up through the ranks, I started on Johnson's baby and that's when I had my first baby. And then as my boys became Teenagers. I was working on Clean and Clear which is an acne brand. And then I started working on anti aging. It's really relatable I think for us as consumers and also our families. But then you just made me think of my older son, works in technology so he's a software engineer and he was at Amazon for a couple of years and I remember just always asking him tell me again what it is you do. And he would tell me over and over and I just, I don't know, I couldn't quite comprehend exactly what he was doing. But I'm still proud of you Dylan.
- [10:36]
A
Of course you are. Yeah. The tangibility and the relatability of the products that everyone uses in their life really appealed to me. And, and the scale of retail, the scale and impact of how many consumers lives we impact every day. Whether you're Johnson and Johnson or whether you're a Target or you know, I know you went on to work at Google like that is that to me is exciting because it gives you a platform to drive really meaningful impact.
- [11:02]
B
So you mentioned that you started in a new role five years ago which was the start of the pandemic. What was that like? Tell us that whole experience.
- [11:12]
A
So In January of 2020 I was promoted to the leadership team and I was chief merchant at the time. And if you know retail, which I know you do, chief merchant is kind of the owner of a large part of the P and L if if not the broad part of it. And so I'm sitting there in this big commercial role and two months later everything changes. You know we all remember right, like a lockdown, huge impact to people, safety, health. But then the knock on effects of supply chain disruption, inflation, social unrest, all the things that evolved over the last five years and to, to run a business that first and foremost, I mean it, we, we took off like the, the relevance in our consumers lives became even increasingly more clear as we focused on safety and health and taking care of our team and but ultimately being there were the products that people wanted.
- [12:09]
B
Did you already have a strong E commerce platform set up or was it people coming and picking it up at the store?
- [12:15]
A
It would both and so obviously because of safety concerns people gravitated a lot more towards drive up or order pickup or even same day services. We had acquired a company called Shipt a couple of years before which allowed us to deliver to their doorstep. But our drive up and digital business scaled at a pace that you would not have imagined. So the underlying foundation was there the investments we had made over time was there to allow our guests to shop in the way that they wanted. But we also put a lot of investment into the safety and health of our stores. They're clean and vibrant and we took care of our team members. And so it did generate a lot of trust from our consumers to actually shop in store as well. It was a unusual time for anyone. But to be a brand new leader and to be in charge of the commercial business during a time of skyrocketing growth and uncertainty. It was a challenge from a leadership perspective, but also one that I learned a tremendous amount from. And I would say there are a couple things that I leaned into. First and foremost is this idea of a rookie mindset. When you don't know what you don't know, it's easier to make some decisions without regret because you don't have a bias. And the reality is I hadn't done this before and no one had done it in this context. Right. We were all living these converging challenges at the same time. So that's actually somewhat freeing in a way because there's no right answer. The other thing that I focused or we focused a lot on is the idea of clarity over certainty. When. When you lead a team of thousands of people who are looking to you for direction and their environment is so uncertain, there is no way to create comfort with the fact that, you know, if we do A, it's going to lead to B. And so what we focus a lot more on is let's lay out a common set of assumptions and then let's drive to decision making around those assumptions and the clarity of those assumptions and the guardrails against which we would execute gave people an opportunity to feel empowered and move the ball forward until we realized that we needed to adjust our assumptions and those that happen all the time. By the way, I remember in March, you know, we. We buy product on long lead times, you know, sometimes a year lead time, especially in home goods and things like that. People were like, what's going to happen for back to college? Are people going to go back to college? Are they going to need sheets and towels and all these things? And we just had to draw a line in the sand. We had no idea. No one had any idea. And we made the decision that everything's going to be back to normal.
- [14:52]
B
The fingers crossed, yes, two years later.
- [14:55]
A
But that assumption and the path forward allowed our teams to make certain decisions. Ultimately we of course had to make adjustments later on, but it was an important way to keep the team moving. And then the last Thing is just the power of culture. Target has always been a place that invests in people and teams and the value of working together to solve problems. And the one team approach was so incredibly important. None of us had the answers, but we all felt more confident in working with such talented other vested people who had the same great intention. I remember reading this quote or parable or something that said, you know, if you stand at the bottom of a mountain alone and you look up, it seems daunting to climb that mountain. But if you stand with others, it's actually scientifically verified that you have more confidence in your ability to climb the mountain. And so that's kind of the mindset that we pursue all the time. Yeah, this may be hard, but together we can figure it out.
- [15:59]
B
I love that. And those are really valuable lessons that you learn that it sounds like you can apply in other situations as well. Can you now talk to us about what are you focused on today? What are you excited about in your current role?
- [16:12]
A
So I took a really different job this summer after 21 years of leading the business and being, you know, kind of a expert at that point, you know, I thought of myself as a pretty decent merchant. I was asked to take on a different role to lead the long term strategy for Target and all the underlying enablers. And so the title's not that different from the title that I had, but the role is really different. And so think about it as, where are we going on a long term horizon? How does our new roadmap for growth position us to go where we need to go? And what do we need to experiment, innovate and develop in pursuit of relevance with consumers, business models in light of risks and geopolitical considerations and all these things. And then how do we get there? How do we get there? Especially leveraging the power of technology, data sciences, product efficiency efforts, our global teams, and how do we unlock the organization to get there in a synchronized way, in a disciplined way, but also in a way that really accelerates our impact. Things are moving so fast today, especially in the space of technology. Consumer behavior shifts. That pace is such an important competitive advantage. And so I say my team is the compass for the organization and the WD40. Where are we going and how do we get there with less friction and faster?
- [17:38]
B
Yeah, that's super smart of Target to create that role and to put you in it, of course. And as a board director, we're both fellow board directors on different companies, but you always want that company to be looking further out. But often companies end up being very short term focused about the next quarter or that year. So you're talking about really long term strategies that I'm sure are driving investments today that you know, hopefully the organization will benefit from in the future. Can you talk a bit about what are some of the current consumer trends that are influencing that strategy?
- [18:12]
A
Yeah, I mean, wow, is there a degree of change going on? And I agree with you, like it is hard to do both. In fact, my prior job, I had strategy and I spent time on it. We advanced a lot of things. But the ability to dedicate mindshare is, is different when you don't also have $108 billion machine that you need to run today. I think there's a lot of things, the pandemic and the years after it really changed a lot in consumer behavior. You mentioned it before, how people shop and the role of digital, especially for grocery, household essentials and just that ease and convenience that came with what we all experienced and perhaps for some tried for the first time during COVID That's a behavior that's stuck and that's gonna, I think continue to be so as long as people value their time and the convenience that it offers. And I think that's probably a trend that's gonna last for quite a while. I think speed of trend changes given how media and technology have influenced our lives. We spend 12 and a half hours a day on digital devices as consumers. Much of that is dual screen time. So you know, you may be watching a football game while you're scrolling through TikTok.
- [19:24]
B
No, we'll never do that.
- [19:26]
A
No, no one does that. But. And so where people's attention span and where they become inspired has changed so much that you know, years ago people would see a Runway show or they'd watch the Golden Globes and they'd be like, oh, who's that designer? And then six months later or three months later, that dress would be available more broadly. Well, now it's like, I saw it, I want it, I'm buying it. And so that speed of trend translation is really important. Supply chains. We've all witnessed how globally connected the world is. And so how you continue to manage a complex global supply chain with different volatility in the world, geopolitical considerations, things like that I think is really important. But by far the biggest impact is technology shifts. And so the role of AI gen, AI and other enablers that can unlock consumer experiences, efficiencies in the business, different ways of working I think has incredible impact on especially well scaled operations. But frankly on small operations too, because you can just get to market faster with content and so many different things. So I think technology, consumer behavior trends, geopolitical considerations and risks and then the global nature of how we all work has driven a lot of impact on business models, but certainly on how we all need to ready ourselves to compete.
- [21:01]
B
So you mentioned a couple of technology examples. Can you dive into maybe what are some of the use cases where Target is using AI to accelerate the business?
- [21:11]
A
Yeah, so traditional AI we probably use for the better part of 10 plus years. You think about price optimization, clearance management, you think about personalization of loyalty programs, demand forecasting, all those things are easier to do. Media strategy and things like that. Optimization, all that's easier to do with AI. Gen AI has very different use cases. We spent the year of 2024 really experimenting broadly across the enterprise on consumer facing. We call our customers guests, so guest facing applications and internal applications that are more for efficiency. And if you went on target.com today, you'd see that we have our reviews are aggregated by Genai to give you a summary of what consumers are saying about this product. You'd see us have tools that help you find the right product for you, whether it's a, you know, a gift finder and things like that. You'd see us using Gen AI internally for our store team members. They are the front line to our brand, but they're also doing a lot of task management and so having knowledge papers in one easy agent that they can just pull up on their pocket device to say, hey, how do I reboot the POS turnable terminal after went down? Or how do I help a guest with this particular challenge that they're having? Or you know, how do I recycle? Maybe something that you don't do every single day and quickly get answers to help them service our customers but also be efficient in their work. When you have 400,000 team members, that kind of value add really adds up. Right. Like retail is a, is a business of pennies. Like we make thin margins and it's all based off of scale. So if you can find solutions that make things incrementally better, it has a huge multiplier effect. And so you'll see us do a lot more in 2025. And there are certain areas where we believe this has outsized potential and you'll see us invest in that. Some of those areas would certainly call centers and marketing and things like that. But frankly we've learned a ton. And every day there's, you know, A new idea. Now it's much more about prioritization, sequencing. We can't do it all. And also managing the costs. The costs are real and they add up.
- [23:39]
B
Yes.
- [23:39]
A
Yeah.
- [23:40]
B
It must be exciting for you and fun to kind of get back to your technology roots. Although the technology is a completely different technology today than when you were coding.
- [23:49]
A
Thank God. If anyone was with COBOL or C, we'd be in. In a world of trouble. But it is fun. And I think the point of having a new job, that's really different. It is really fun. Like, I love to learn. I also like to teach. But this opportunity to be with teams that I haven't spent as much time with, learn from them, see what they're working on, and then think about how do I create the pathways for Target to take advantage of their immense creativity and capability so that we can all go faster towards a coordinated set of priorities. It's really exciting. It's a great team. And it's not just tech. It's a lot of other teams, insights and strategy and so forth. But it's fun to be, like, in full learning mode again.
- [24:36]
B
Yes. I had that experience when I left JJ after 20 years and then moved over to Google, and it was like, oh, my gosh, I missed this. Just learning something new every single day. And now that I've left Google, I feel like I have to challenge myself to stay motivated to continue learning. But luckily, there's so much to learn. It's just finding the time to and focus. Like you said, like, where do I, you know, start?
- [25:01]
A
You're out there networking and reading things or doing your. This podcast or sitting on boards. Like, I have a high appreciation for people who are also curious, but bring that learning agility to things, and I've always appreciated that in you.
- [25:18]
B
Thank you. So you just talked about the importance of teams and how you're enjoying working with new teams. How do you effectively lead teams when the landscape is changing so rapidly around us?
- [25:31]
A
First of all, I have a, like, a deep appreciation for teams going way back to my youth. Like, I was an athlete. I played three sports through high school. I was a college athlete. I was a rower, actually, which is kind of the ultimate team sport where you have to be in sync all the time. And so this idea that you can do more with others is just fundamental to what I believe. And in an environment, like, we were talking about uncertainty, you know, part of it is how do you create clarity, which I talked about, but it's also about how do you get the most out of everyone's capacity and capability. And so that that comes with, you know, what's the leader's role? The leader's role is to create clear direction, to help make sure that the team has the skills and abilities and resources that they need. And then it's to get out of the way. And so there's a lot about empowering people to accelerate the impact so that everyone feels like the value add it comes from every single person. And then of course, when things go right, you celebrate together. When things go wrong, you are accountable together. And it is about the team ultimately. I've also learned that there are times where I need to ask for help. I do not possess all the answers, nor do I would I want to be a part of a team where that was the expectation that one person has all the answers. But that I would say is something that I've learned over time is to ask for help. But I encourage now that I have, I think, gotten better at it, people to do the same. You know, like none of us know everything. And so we all need some help. And if there's trust on a team, if there's comfort with how those team dynamics work, then I think there's a lot of opportunity to really take advantage of how people are willing to help each other. And then the last one is really about embracing ambiguity. You talked about it. There's so much uncertainty. And so we can either fight that or we can ride that wave and understand that there's no black and white answer. It's about how we navigate it, about how we shift the sales and adjust them accordingly as things change. I remember during the pandemic, again, I was also board chair of the second largest food bank in the United States called Second Harvest Heartland. It's just a great organization here in Minnesota. It serves the greater Minnesota and part of Wisconsin area. And after George Floyd's death, there was a lot of social unrest. It was also during the pandemic. So there was a lot of demand for food. There was not a lot of supply because supply was going to grocery stores and retailers like Target. Supply chain was also getting a little messed up. And there was not a volunteer base to leverage because most of the volunteers often were elderly. And they were like, I'm not getting Covid. So we had this confluence of challenges, but we needed to get food to people. And I remember talking to the CEO cause she and I would text or talk almost every single day during those days. And I said, okay, well, we've got a plan. What if this doesn't work, like, what else should we consider? And to her credit, she said, well, let's call the governor and ask for the National Guard. And I was like, you can do that, like all the governor and ask. And she's like, well, this is an emergency. We need to get people food. And she had worked in the public sector, and so she had, you know, more connection to the governor and things. And so that was her way of thinking. And I was like, what an awesome example of just thinking differently about solving. I'm like, okay, let's call the governor. We didn't have to. At the end of the day, we figured out how to get the food out to the people that needed it. I just love that example. So a lot about, you know, leveraging the power of others, creative thinking, creating an environment that's trusting and safe, where people can offer their best. And if their best comes up short, then we hold hands together and we move forward.
- [29:22]
B
Well, I want to work for you, Christina, and that's a great example you shared, because as you were sharing that example from Second Harvest, it made me think, wow, what a different way to come at the problem. And that's exactly your reaction as well. On this podcast, I actually want to encourage people to embrace what makes them different rather than trying to fit into this traditional corporate mold. And you've been very successful reaching the C suite. Did you face any barriers along the way that you had to overcome? How did you figure out your superpowers? What makes you different and find your own voice as a leader?
- [29:57]
A
We've all experienced things, right? Like, it doesn't. You don't make it to this level without having some level of challenge, friction, or opportunity to work through. Because I moved here as an immigrant. And I was always different from day one, first of all, in the 80s, the whole thing is you assimilate. And so, like, yes, I showed up day one in third grade to class and clogs and knickers, but by day two, I was like, I need an AP shirt and, like, jeans, you know, and. And we actually did go to Sears, I remember, and get those things. But so I quickly figured out how to assimilate to American culture and learn the language, you know, and stuff. But over time, I realized that the fact that I had a different perspective, that I had had unique experiences, that I still had parents who valued that global view and celebrated both the American way and the way of other parts of the world gave me a unique superpower of my own. Sometimes I could see things from a different angle. Sometimes being different in the room, whether it was being a woman in a room full of men, especially in technology, early on gave me a different level of empathy for those who might not see themselves represented in leadership ranks. And some of those things I've carried with me in roles. Later on, I tried to make sure that I leverage that alternate thinking to both the problems we solved, but also the people who need someone to champion their efforts and, and proud of the work that we've done to make sure that there is an opportunity for all. I'd say that the other superpower that I have is that I, I am a little bit more comfortable with the gray. You know, don't believe that there's just one answer to a problem. I'm a pretty level headed, you know, somewhat stoic Scandinavian, but I'm not like stuck in my ways. And so people can, when they have better ideas or they, they present an alternative point of view, I find that really motivating. And so in the work that we do, this comfort with ambiguity I think is a strength. And so those are two of the things I try to lean into. Just the empathy for being a little different at times and the opportunity to be demonstrating how you can navigate complexity and ambiguity in an uncertain world.
- [32:23]
B
You know, that is such a critical leadership skill, to be comfortable with ambiguity. And I think you called it, you know, comfortable with the gray areas. Not too many people have that. And I think it's so critical, especially as you reach the higher levels, because the ideas aren't all going to be your ideas. And the environment is changing so much around us, like the pandemic, nobody knew what to do. And so you have to be able to feel comfortable making those decisions and moving forward. So it's a great superpower to have.
- [32:58]
A
Sometimes you just have to ask yourself, what if I was wrong? Like, what if this doesn't work? Like, what's the worst that can happen? If you're a doctor, the outcomes are different than if you are a toy buyer, you know, and so like, yeah, there'll be financial ramifications. You can scenario plan against that. You can think about different ways that you can mitigate that loss. But, you know, it's a very empowering question to say, well, what if it doesn't work? What, what is the outcome? I was recently at this leadership conference for women at Kellogg, and Professor Medbeck was talking about some research she had done. And people often have a lot more regret around the things they didn't do than the mistakes that they made. And we all make mistakes. Most Mistakes can be recovered from. It's the chance you didn't take or the date you didn't go on, or the job you didn't throw your hat in for that. Most people, when they look back at their life, regret in the long run. And so I try to think about that. Do I always apply that? No. Do I have fears and, you know, trepidations like everyone else? Without a doubt. But it has allowed me a level of comfort with taking the next step, for sure.
- [34:18]
B
So, Christina, I love that story you talked about showing up at school in your clogs. For me, it was asking my parents to get that Lacoste shirt. I don't know if you remember the Lacoste polo shirt. I'm like, I have to have that one with the alligator because everybody has it. But we, we do face those pressures in school.
- [34:36]
A
Cloths are still very useful footwear, I would say, in my household, who wear them more out of comfort than trying.
- [34:42]
B
To make a statement, they've come back in style. Yes. So, Christina, do you have any leadership guiding principles that you rely on when you're faced with difficult decisions or situations?
- [34:55]
A
There's enough stressors in our lives with these big jobs that I don't need to add ones that are self imposed. Meaning if I. I have a really strong set of values and value integrity and honesty really, really highly. And I need to know that I can go to bed at night comfortable that I made the best decision or tried to do the right thing and then go on from there. And so one of the things, obviously that I'm never willing to compromise is integrity, honesty, and trying to do the right thing doesn't mean it always works out. But that gives me at least a piece of mind that I'm not going to flog myself at night for my behavior. The other one is I do genuinely believe that we can do more together. And so if I'm struggling with something, if we don't know how to do it, who can I enlist for help? Like I said, I've gotten better at that over time. It's not something that has always come naturally. I also believe that there is, you know, not always easy answers to complex problems. Like it takes time to figure out sometimes what is the right solution. And so while I have a strong belief that speed is a competitive advantage, there are things and decisions that do have really meaningful impact on people's lives and considerations, especially when you think about jobs and employment and creating opportunities for people. And so the things that are really meaningful, you know, you take the Time, take the time, bring in the right partners, figure out how to do it in a way that is going to be the best potential outcome. But I think that's the hard part is how do you separate the one way doors from the two way doors and how do you know? And that I think takes practice over time. So I wouldn't say I have some well defined leadership principles. I have just more value system that I look at that I just try to apply to my work as well.
- [36:58]
B
Yeah, I think that emphasizes what you talked earlier about your superpowers being empathy and comfort with ambiguity because clearly you care about the decisions you're making and think about the impact on others and it's not always an easy answer. Yeah, right. Did you have mentors or sponsors who helped you along the way?
- [37:21]
A
Absolutely. I don't think any of us get to this level without that. Right. Or some level of help. Mentors internally and sponsors. You know, there are a couple of them that have made huge impact on my career. They saw potential in me, they invested in me, they opened doors for me, they encouraged me and they were honest about what I needed to develop and what I needed, you know, what I, what skills I could rely on. Certainly a couple former senior leaders at Target who I still talk to to this day in some cases. In fact, I met with a woman, she, she left Target eight years ago, but I just met with her again last week. You know, you know how incredibly fortunate we are to have this built in network with Henry Crown fellows and the Aspen Institute in general. I would say I lean on people's expertise, their, their point of view, their support, not broadly, like I'm not a huge, huge networker, but, but the people that I do engage have been incredibly helpful and supportive and helped open doors and the peer group is just incredible. You know, people in my, who know me at my core, like my, I turned 50amonth ago and my best friends, you know, are my friends from college and all like the five of us were going to go to Ireland for a long girls weekend in May because we all turned 50 this year. And those people know the real you. Right. And like the, the person who doesn't come with a title or you know, this big job or whatever, they just know me, Christina, and they'll call the bullshit on things that, you know, they're like, is that really what you want to do? Is that, is that what you're, what you're motivated by? So having a balance of friends, professional networks and people who every day help you, I think none of us can do it alone. And then you throw in a bit of luck in there too and hopefully a bit of talent and skill. But without a doubt, mentors are important and I think it's important then you translate that back. Right. And so people have helped me. I try to do the same for them and invest time and energy. And one of my good friends, Laysha Ward, she's always, you know, our job is to send the elevator back down and yeah, so we send the elevator back down, pick up more people.
- [39:43]
B
That's wonderful. Yeah. I also have a lot of close friends from college that I remain close to. And you're right, they tell you the truth because they know you really well and often they're not connected to you at work. So you can kind of let that the politics of work go and they just listen to you. And then certainly the Henry Crown Fellowship Network has been. Many people have been part of my personal board of advisors. I like to call it just helping me think through big decisions and listening, listening to what I'm saying that maybe I don't know yet myself.
- [40:14]
A
I feel like you have also talked about the role of other board members and the experiences you're getting on boards. I feel the same way. Like they're dealing with similar business problems in different environments and having, listening to, participating in and benefiting from that kind of conversation that happens in different boardrooms has been really helpful for me. I don't want to put words in your mouth, but I feel like I've heard you talk about that a number of times.
- [40:42]
B
It's really fascinating and I think interesting. I got my first board role while I was still in a full time role at Google and being able to bring in or just think a little bit differently at the board level and then think about, oh, you know, in my job we should also be thinking about X, Y and Z and vice versa. I think it's really valuable for people to serve on boards if you can.
- [41:04]
A
Yeah.
- [41:05]
B
You have a 16 year old daughter and I can't believe how fast time flies. Can you talk about as a working mom, you know, how are you balancing all your different priorities and do you make time for self care?
- [41:20]
A
Well, to say that I have it all figured out would be a lie. So I won't, I won't start with that. I think it's hard to imagine that anyone does, but she is really important to me and I knowing that she's only got a couple years left in high school, it's very obvious to me that like I've Got to make sure that I am very present and at her games and band concerts and there to take pictures at homecoming, you know, with her friends and her date and whatever. Partly because, A, I just love spending time with her, but B, that's going to mean a lot more in the long run than, you know, just one more incremental meeting that I could have delayed to the next day. Certainly there are times when you, you're really stuck and you, you have to make difficult trade offs. But I'm very much being intentional about how I spend time with my family. Daughter being at the forefront of that. But my, my family in general, I would say self care. Some things are good, some things could be better. I reinvested much more energy in friendships that are meaningful to me, whether they're like friends that I've had for a long time or friends that are, you know, more part of my everyday life, but really investing because they're all over the world and it takes time and energy to figure out how you're going to see a friend that lives in London or how you're going to connect with someone that, you know, may be in a different part of the country or whatever. But it's worth it because they're, they're so important to me from a hobby perspective. You know, the thing that I miss the most is probably skiing. I used to ski, you know, I raced all the way through high school. I used to ski all the time, and I just don't do enough of it. But I just this weekend I booked a trip with a friend out to Bozeman so we could hit up Big sky in a couple weeks. And I just, I just can't wait. But otherwise, I mean, I would say, you know, it's. Some things are good, like I'm learning how to play the harmonica, I'm doing a woodworking class and that different stuff. You know, I got my outside boardwork and things like that that I really enjoy. But, you know, do I exercise enough and do the like. Do I always eat what I should? No. And so it is having a little bit of grace too, and tackling it as I can, you know.
- [43:37]
B
Absolutely. So, last question. Christina, what advice would you give to your younger self about navigating your career while staying true to yourself?
- [43:46]
A
I think the importance of recognizing that what I said earlier about you're going to grow a lot more in those situations where you put yourself out there so taking the appropriate risks. Someone could say, oh, you've been at target for 21 years. How are you really Stretching yourselves. But I've had a lot of different opportunities here, and a lot of things that I do outside that has helped complement that. But stepping into those challenges, I think I've never regretted, even though they've been hard sometimes in the moment, and so encouraging that so that you don't end up with regrets after the fact. And then the other one is recognizing that imposter syndrome is real for everyone, even you. Okay. Let me remind you of 2013, when we walked into Henry Crown Fellowship. Yes. I sat silent for the better part of a whole week because I was so intimidated by the rest of the fellows, by their backgrounds and their experiences and what they had done. And I was like, how the heck did I get into this program?
- [44:47]
B
And we all felt that way. I think maybe, maybe everybody but Chad.
- [44:52]
A
But that's the whole point is, like, I wish someone had. I didn't even know the term imposter syndrome until much later in my life. And if someone had said, like, listen, we all feel that way at times. Like, there are going to be times when you. You're like, what am I doing here? But embracing it. And kind of to some extent, fake it till you make it. But more importantly, like, just lean in because it's. It's a missed opportunity if you don't. That, I think, is a lesson that I wish I would have learned earlier. And had I to do it all over again, would I have tackled that first week of fellowship in a different way? Without a doubt. And so it has been like, as I've matured into my later stages of life, although I don't think 50 is old, for the record, but I just have a different level of comfort with what I do and don't know. But, yeah, those are a couple things, I guess.
- [45:41]
B
Thank you for sharing those. So, Christina, I've loved talking with you. You are such an inspirational role model for so many people, and I want to thank you for sharing your leadership dance and coming on the podcast.
- [45:52]
A
Well, thank you for having me. It's been so fun to do with you, and I appreciate the fact that you had interest in hearing my story.
- [46:00]
B
Like, follow and Share the Leadership Dance, where we explore how to choreograph the career of your dreams and chat with visionary leaders who are breaking barriers in the arts and business worlds. Until next time, keep dancing.