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The Leadership Dance
Ep. 22: A refugee can be anything, with Chantale Zuzi
00:38:02
In this powerful episode, Alissa Hsu Lynch speaks with Chantale Zuzi, a remarkable young leader whose journey from a small village in the Democratic Republic of the Congo to the halls of Wellesley College is nothing short of extraordinary. After...
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- [00:00]
A
There was a lot going on within the surrounding villages. Tribalism, violence, including mining, war. There was a massacre that happened in my small village, and I lost both my parents in that massacre. This is something I never thought or imagined that one day I will be stepping into my mother's role of taking care of my siblings and to grow up overnight. And it was really such a challenging moment for me and, of course, for the entire family. I never knew that one day I would identify with refugees. I saw them on tv, and I never knew that one day I will be one of them.
- [00:59]
B
Hello and welcome back to the Leadership Dance. If you enjoy this show, make sure to share and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Alisa sue lynch, and today I'm thrilled to introduce my friend, Chantal Zuzi. Chantal's life started 21 years ago in the Democratic Republic of the Congo, where she faced devastating losses amid the cruelties of war and displacement. At 13, she lost both her parents in a massacre in her village and was forced to flee with her siblings to a refugee settlement in Uganda. As the oldest girl in her family, Chantal became the primary caregiver of her brothers and sisters. She also began to advocate for the rights of girls and young women of the refugee camp and for those whose lives were touched by the challenges of albinism, including severely limited vision and security concerns. Chantal became a liaison to the camp's United nations staff as a formal representative of these vulnerable groups. When she was 17 years old, she moved to the United States, completing high school in just three years with honors. Today, she is the proud graduate of Wellesley College. Chantal is a powerful speaker whose work has been featured by organizations including the Memorial foundation for the Blind, Amnesty International, and Harper's Bazaar. I'm so excited to have you on the show, Chantal.
- [02:24]
A
Thank you for having me.
- [02:26]
B
Growing up in the Democratic Republic of the Congo, how did your upbringing and experience shape your education and outlook on life?
- [02:35]
A
First of all, I really grew up in this very, very small village, and I felt safe in my big home with my 10 siblings, five boys and four girls. Basically five girls plus me. It was really such an interesting childhood where going to school, I really felt unsafe because of my albinism. I was born with albinism, and two of my youngest sister also had albinism. I'll talk a little more about albinism later. But my upbringing, basically, I saw how much responsibilities my mother had of taking care of me and my younger sisters, washing clothes, washing dishes. I wanted to be more like My dad, because he didn't do all that. He just went to work, he worked in the farms. And I wanted to be more like him. And now I appreciate what my mother did, but I really wanted to be more like my dad. And I quickly understood how privileged I was to be able to attend school. So school was not a rite, especially for a young girl like myself. And so many other girls were promised to marriage as soon as they reach puberty. So I was so lucky that my parents wanted me to go to school and have an education. And that, to me, was really a privilege. There was a lot going on within the surrounding villages. Tribalism, violence, including mining, war. There was a massacre that happened in my small village, and I lost both my parents in that massacre. This is something I never thought or imagined. That one day I will be stepping into my mother's role of taking care of my siblings and to grow up overnight. And it was really such a challenging moment for me and, of course, for the entire family. I never knew that one day I would identify with refugees. I saw them on tv, and I never knew that one day I will be one of them. So basically, my siblings and I joined thousands of refugees in the refugee settlements in Uganda as we fled the ongoing violence in the Congo. There, my siblings and I shared the many challenges faced by refugees around the world.
- [05:42]
B
Thank you so much for sharing this overview of your story. And I'd love to unpack so many things that you talked about. You have such an incredible journey at a young age. I wanted to pick up first on you mentioned albinism. What barriers and challenges did you face growing up as a person with albinism? And what impact did this have on your mindset and your motivation to help others? I'm sure you have faced a lot of discrimination. Can you talk a little bit more about that?
- [06:11]
A
Yes. When I was born, people wanted to kill me because of my skin color. They believed that I was a curse and that they could use my body for sacrificial purposes. So it was dangerous to be born with albinism in my village. Basically, my parents, my grandma, my mother's mom, thought that she should kill the baby because I will bring bad luck into the family. And my father's family thought he should divorce my mom for giving birth, a child with albinism. And they really didn't understand the genetic part of being born with albinism. And so I felt unsafe. I knew that I could lose my life at any moment. I never took my life for granted. I had challenges, of course, going to school. I was not able to see very well. My vision was compromised because of albinism, and there were no accommodations for students with limited vision in school. So I went to school and I would just listen because I wasn't able to take notes. I wasn't able to read what was on the blackboard. I relied on my siblings to go from places to places. So it was really such a challenging moment of my life. I never saw myself as beautiful because everyone thought there was something wrong with me and that was my skin color, basically. Other kids didn't want to play with me because they thought that my albinism was contagious. And so they will also have albinism if they touch me or if they are around me. And so that was painful. But I was lucky to have my siblings and I would play with my siblings. And I enjoyed making dolls and just playing with my dolls. But I really quickly understood how fragile life can be. And living with albinism, it was a challenge and a blessing at the end.
- [08:45]
B
Yeah, it's horrible to hear about the loss of your parents in a massacre in your village. And I think you were aged 13. You talk about this in your TED Talk, but are you willing to share the story of what happened on that day with us now?
- [09:01]
A
It was my birthday, and I don't even know if I turned 13 or 12 because even my parents didn't know how old I was because we never celebrated birthdays. And they will just say, oh, how tall are you? Stand up. Oh, I think you're 50. I think you are 13. So that day I was told I was 13. Of course, like every birthday, I felt grateful to be alive and to be there. And I told my mom I wanted rice and beans, which was my favorite food. And it was just like a normal day. And in my village, we loved music. So sometimes we had like dance and music. And it quickly changed when we heard rapid fire guns within the village. And it was normal for us because men go and hunt within the village. So it was normal to hear firearms and guns. But this was different. I remember my parents coming into the room and telling us that we had to go. And my older brother took nine of us to the village in this tree that my parents wanted to meet. And every day my brothers and my dad would meet under that tree. It was like a meeting point of the family. And so my parents told us to go to hide under that tree and that they will be joining us later. We waited for hours and hours and they never came. I fell asleep and we all slept there. And in the morning, everything just changed. We lost our home, we lost our parents, we lost our village. And now, of course, we became refugees. And that's when we left our country and traveled to Uganda to join hundreds and thousands of other refugees in that refugee camp.
- [11:22]
B
Wow. Thank you so much for sharing that story. So you talked about becoming the primary caregiver for all of your siblings in the refugee settlement. How did that responsibility change the path of your life? Being responsible at age 13 for your whole family, how did that impact you?
- [11:43]
A
Life was difficult outside of the camp. And now you can imagine within the camp where food, clean water to drink, health care, all these basic things that we consider basic needs were impossible to meet. And we had to go in the woods and gather wood to make a cooking fire so we can actually cook our meal. We depended on the United nations to provide maize and rice and beans, and we had to make this food last for one month. And that means we have to eat one meal a day. I think the most challenging part to me was thinking that, what are my siblings gonna eat tomorrow? What am I gonna do if we don't. Some days we don't have food. How can I tell them that there is no food today when they are telling me that they're hungry? I would make up stories, and I loved storytelling, and I'll just make up different stories and starting to tell them stories until they fall asleep. Those were really hard, hard time. And, of course, being able to just keep all of us safe in terms of, like, you know, my little sisters. Even within Uganda, we were not safe because of Albinism, and we still had to stay indoors. I don't even know how to describe those moments, but it shaped my entire life. There were times that I wanted to give up. I felt like life was so unfair to us. And what really kept me going was the hopes and dreams I had for myself and for so many other people within the camp. I saw the UN workers driving to the refugee camp and coming to talk to us and ways they can support us. And I wanted so much to be like them. I wanted to come back. I wanted to support others. And I was always a daydreamer. And I think that also helps because whenever I will be very sad, I will think of myself in this UN car and driving in there in the camp and interviewing people in, talking to other refugees and supporting them, and those daydreaming, I would just feel really happy after doing so. And so many of those things really kept me going. The things that I was looking forward to and not just see what was happening in my life at that moment.
- [14:39]
B
That's amazing. And I love hearing that you were dreaming then, because you are making that dream come true now, which we're going to talk about in a bit. So tell me, how did you come to the United States? You were in the refugee camp in Uganda for a number of years. How did you make it over to the United States? And then I want to hear about that transition as well.
- [14:59]
A
Oh, my gosh. There were multiple transitions. So basically, within the camp, I became the president of people with albinism and women and girls, so representing them to the United nations and the government. And I began going to the Human Rights Commission and advocates for our rights. And some people with albinism were getting cancer, skin cancer, because the sun was a lot. And there were no sun protection, sun cream protection. And women and girls were facing different challenges within the camp. And so, because of my advocacy, I became a target. And so I had to leave Uganda and go to Kenya alone. Basically, this was a decision that was made by myself, but I could not say goodbye to my brothers and sisters. And I wanted them to receive the support. But if I continued my work with the human rights, they were at risk of losing even the support that they were receiving. And so I could not also sit there and do nothing about the situations that we were in. I left Uganda and went to Kenya when I was 16 years old. Yeah, I just took the bus. I didn't know where I was going, by the way. I knew no one in Kenya. And so I arrived in Kenya, I was placed in a safe house, protection with hundreds young girls, unaccompanied refugee minor, who came from different parts of Africa and have faced different challenges. I lived there for two years. And that's where I did begin again, the process of coming to the United States. And it was a long process. It's, of course, a resettlement process. There were a lot of interviewing with different government agencies. And finally I was given resettlement. But just for the context. Not every refugee qualifies for resettlement. And in the past years, only 1% of a refugee got resettlement. And so you have to prove that you cannot go back to your home country. And the reason is not just war, because they believe that war can end and you can go back to your own country, but it has to be more than that. And for me, it was albinism. I could not change the color of my skin. And this was dangerous to live with albinism in the Congo and some parts of Africa. And so I was given resettlements because of my albinism. And to me, it's just, wow, like, the same thing that people thought was a curse and a bad luck was a good luck to be able to resettled in the US So that was basically the process. And this was an emergency case which took three years in Uganda and two years in Kenya, basically five years within the process. And people live in refugee camps for years and years. 10 years, 15 years. So I was really lucky to have been resettled in the U.S. wow.
- [18:44]
B
You are so incredibly brave. Chantal, have you been able to be reunited with the rest of your family, with your siblings?
- [18:52]
A
Yes, I was united with my siblings. After one year of living in the United States, I was able to bring all my nine siblings in the US So now they live in Boston, in Worcester, Massachusetts. And. Yes.
- [19:10]
B
Amazing.
- [19:11]
A
I just wanted to add how difficult that was coming to the United States without my siblings and knowing that they were in this difficult situation where sometimes they could not have enough food to eat. And the most difficult part was, do I focus on myself? Because I think if they had food or not, I think, are they safe? Are they okay? And really having that worry. And I know so many immigrants will connect to that feeling of, you are safe now. You have a bed, you have food, but you've left loved ones behind. And that was really the hardest part as well.
- [20:00]
B
My parents are immigrants from China, and on my mother's side, my grandfather was a general in the army, the Nationalist army in China, which lost. So when that war was ending, my mom's whole family had to flee China, never to go back. So, yes, just making your way to another country, leaving family behind, because not everybody can come over at once, it's incredibly challenging. Now, tell me about moving to the United States. That must have been a culture shock. What was the transition like for you? What surprised you? And maybe what are some of the cultural adjustments that you faced?
- [20:43]
A
Oh, my goodness. There were so many cultural challenges that I faced. First of all, I arrived in the United States, I was welcomed by my two moms, whom I thought they were sisters. They came to the airport to welcome me, and we went home, and they shared a bedroom. And I was like, oh, my gosh, these two sisters really love each other. They even sleep in one bedroom. And of course, later on, I learned that they were married. And to me, it was a culture shock, because where I come from, I haven't really seen that. I find it sad that they ask, do you want to live with Us, but we are married. And to me, really, because I've experienced discrimination in my life based on my own just skin and body that I was born in. I felt like I could not even understand, but I could not really discriminate them based on who they love, basically. And so I told them, as long as you're good people, that's what matters to me. And so I, of course, lived with my parents, very supportive parents, and I'm grateful that I landed in their home. That was my first culture shock. And then my parents thought it was really wonderful to take me camping. And they told me that we were going camping. And I was so excited, I packed my bag and I did not know what camping was. I thought we were going to a vacation, to a hotel or something. I don't know what I was thinking. And so we drove in the middle of the woods and they stopped the car and they're like, here we are. And I was like, how is that possible? That anyone can leave their home, their beds, and go sleep in the middle of the wood? And so I told them, I really don't want to be here. You know, I've lived in refugee camp and unwillingly slept in a tent, and it's not something I would want to be doing in the US So basically that was a culture shock. And there were multiple. Actually, another one was when I was growing up in drc. Our parents will take us to the hospital when we are basically half dead, when you can't walk anymore, when you're like really, really, really sick. And so being told that I have to go to see a doctor when I'm not sick, it didn't really make sense to me. And I was like, why would I go and see a doctor I'm not even seeing? And so that was like, oh, here we see a doctor every year and for checkup and all that. So I was really surprised, even just really keeping track with time. In my country, we are always late. Like, if you tell me we are meeting at 12, I'm probably going to be there at 3pm because we had like three hours. And so I got in trouble a lot because I was not always on time. So the culture shock was really a lot. And the food was different. I had to really adapt to eating different food. When my foster parents would eat salad, I was like, oh my gosh, these people are eating leaves. Because it's just leaves and it's not cooked. And I mean, today I do eat leaves. But it was really, really challenging to get used to the food. In the United States, everything was new. The language was new. I had to learn English. I spoke no English at all. I spoke French, Swahili, and multiple other languages, but English was not the language I knew. And so it was difficult to adjust. It was difficult to use technology. And I go to my class and my teacher is like, grab the Chromebook. And I'm like, what is a Chromebook? And everyone is grabbing this Chromebook, and I just look at it and I don't even know what to do with it. So it was really a shock and also stressful time of my life.
- [25:08]
B
Those are such great stories. I love that. So, Chantal, earlier you talked about your dreams when you were in the refugee camp, and you have now started an organization, Refugee Can Be. What inspired you to establish it, and what's your mission and what you hope to achieve? Tell us more about Refugee Can Be.
- [25:28]
A
Multiple things inspired me to start Refugee Can Be. And the first, of course, was my own journey of living that refugee experience. I look at myself, of how far I have come, how many people have reached out to help me, to give me access to incredible opportunities. And now I know that a refugee can Be. She can be educated, she can be financially independent. But what did it take for me to be here? And that's where I started. It took hundreds and thousands of people, institutions that have supported me, to get here. And I thought of all those young women, young girls that I have left, who will, might or never have the same opportunity of being resettled anywhere in the world, especially in the climate that we live in right now. And so I founded Refugee Can Be to be able to help those young women, I can't really say empower them, because they are already empowered. I will just give them the tools that they need to get to be who they want to be. And so Refugee Can Be was founded in those principles, and one of which was also my mom. My mom didn't have education. She was married when she was 12 years old and had 10 children. And so she wanted for me to have education and my younger sisters and really to have that education that is going to open doors for us so we do not just think about marriage, so we are not just wives and raising children. She wanted a different lives for me and my siblings and what my mom wanted for me. And this is why Refugee Can Be has this logo of a tree, and on the trunk of the tree there is a mother and a daughter. And my mom wanted so much for me to receive this education and to become independent and to support my Community, because to her, of course, community was really important. And so I want this tree to grow so these leaves. And we want to give more of that education to young girls who might never have the same opportunity. And so for me, when I came to the United States, I wanted so much to give back, to give back to the communities outside, to give back to the refugees themselves. And that was difficult. I began to intern for and work for multiple organizations. And I later on realized that, of course, many people were interested in using my story for fundraising purposes. And whenever I would suggest any policies, they won't take it into consideration. And so I began to understand that I'm not really making the difference that I wanted to make. And in that process, I did found refugee can be. And it's both a declaration and an aspiration that a refugee can be anything that she dreams to be. But the question is, what does it take for her to be anything? It takes education, just really that human dignity that they need. Basic things, food, shelter. So, basically, yes. Our mission, of course, is to empower, to provide them with education, a wraparound support, where they feel safe, where they're supported. And these are young girls who are, like, in primary school and heading into secondary school.
- [29:32]
B
Incredible. Incredible. Chantal, how can people help you? How can people get involved with refugee can be.
- [29:39]
A
There are so many ways that you can get involved. I mean, first of all, we have our launch funds coming soon, which is going to be June 20, which is World Refugee Day. We are launching our first launch front to bring 40 refugee girls outside of the refugee camp, because safety is one of the biggest things that we consider, and bringing them outside of the camp to a safe home in Kampala city in Uganda and enroll them in secondary school and provide them with shelter and food and the support that they need. And so you're welcome to join us to support that mission. We are really growing our board of directors right now. And if you would consider being a part of the board, Refugee can be. This is the time. And also volunteer with us. Of course. We do have a lot of work that need to be done, and we are still just building, and we don't have enough staff yet to be able to do all that we need to do. Of course, Come to our website and read a little more about us and follow us on media. This is a community that I'm building for those refugee girls. I'm building a community of support for those refugee girls. And I look at the support that I've received from hundreds and thousands of people, a wish that for them. I want them to have that support. And in any way that you wish to support or able to support, either financially or your time, it's going to be really meaningful for the refugee girls themselves.
- [31:23]
B
Wonderful. And we'll provide the URL for your website in the show notes so people can find you.
- [31:30]
A
Thank you. Thank you so much.
- [31:32]
B
So, Chantal, you just achieved an incredible milestone. You graduated from Wellesley College. Congratulations.
- [31:41]
A
Thank you.
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B
What does this accomplishment mean to you? And I think we all want to know what's. What's next for you after college?
- [31:50]
A
Well, I mean, first of all, this milestone, again, was made possible because of people like you and hundreds of thousands of people that have being a part of my life and reaching out to support me. I graduated Wellesley College with zero loan, with a full ride. And really, this is a big accomplishment that my mother would have wanted so much. She wanted me to have an education, and here I have it. So I'm really, really, of course, proud of this accomplishment. And now I'm looking at what's next. Of course, I had so many other opportunities that I was given to go work for multiple companies, but I began to think again about the mission and the movements that I am building. And now I will be stepping into the executive director position with Refugee Can Be. I chose to work for Refugee Can Be and to build this, you know, support for young girls like myself to have that same support that I did. And so that's what I chose to do for the next few years. Of course, I would want to go to grad school. I'm writing a book, and so much is coming. But the most important thing for me was really to see these girls have the dignity and the support that they need.
- [33:20]
B
I am so excited for you. I know we talked last fall about some of the options you had ahead of you, and I'm thrilled to hear that you're going to continue your work with Refugee can be leading the helm. So congratulations on that.
- [33:34]
A
Thank you so much.
- [33:36]
B
So, last question. Chantal, based on your amazing and challenging life experiences, what advice would you offer to young refugees, to change makers and even older people like me about life and leadership?
- [33:53]
A
I have so many advices, one of which that I really have learned based on my own experience, is the fragility of democracy. Democracy is so fragile. It's what caused displacement. Democracy is one of many, many reasons why people are displacing their homes and become refugees to seek safety. And there is this fragile part of having a home, having a bed, having food. And these are things that we take for granted because they're just basic needs. And there are so many hundreds and thousands of people that have lost. That life is so, so fragile. And how can we also enjoy every single moment that we have with the people we love? I never knew that one day I will never see my parents again. I took them for granted because they were there every day. And so really enjoying the moment with the people we love and protecting our democracy, it's just really, really, really important. It's something that I've learned over the years. And of course I also have learned that anyone can become a refugee. When we lose that place of safety, that's it. Life is full of surprises. And you know, what matter is how you respond to what happens to you is what is the most important thing that I have learned. I have been displaced. I have gone through so much in my life and I could choose to be miserable for what has happened to me. But I have a choice to how I want to choose to live my life. I choose to turn what has happened to me into something that is going to help others. I choose to share my story with you today because I know that you probably are going through something. Maybe it's not the same thing, but it's maybe similar situations. And knowing that even for refugee girls who can hear this, who are in a refugee camp, knowing that it's possible, it is possible to break through, it is possible. Don't give up. This is something that is so hard. It's so hard to tell someone who is going through something very challenging to not give up. Because sometimes you just want to give up. But there is a way out. And it's hard for you to believe it right now. And maybe later on he will see it. There is a way out.
- [36:36]
B
You are a living example of the choice that you can make to live your life despite the challenges that life throws at you. Incredible role model. So, Chantal, it is an honor just to know you, to have this conversation with you. You're a true change maker. You're an inspiration for all of us. And I hope more people can support your mission with refugee can be. Thank you so much for joining me on the podcast.
- [37:04]
A
Thank you, thank you. Thank you so much for having me on the podcast today. It's really such a privilege to be here and to share my story with the world and not only my story, but the story of so many incredible people that are going through similar situations. And I hope that older generation can also trust us. Trust us. Young generation. We know that older generation always see us as the future, but how about you see us as the now and let's build that future together? That's something that I really wanted to also share to the older generations listening to me.
- [37:47]
B
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